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    Chapter 1,048: Twenty Years

    Past Chapter Discussions
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    • Shift
      Shift
      Warlord Mod
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      Manga Plus: https://mangaplus.shueisha.co.jp/viewer/1013216
      VIZ Manga: https://www.viz.com/shonenjump/one-piece-chapter-1048/chapter/24349?action=read

      Author Comments 5/08/2022: https://www.viz.com/blog/posts/mangaka-musings-05-08-2022

      **Eiichiro Oda

      I’m currently addicted to konnyaku yam cakes! They’re great in cold noodle dishes and udon. Miso dengaku is the best.**

      ![](https://scontent.flas1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/25498196_10155717412051343_9025410345413307488_n.j pg)![](https://scontent.flas1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/25498196_10155717412051343_9025410345413307488_n.j pg?oh=4670e1d94ec9f74747dbcc981bb8a774&oe=5AB15A1B)

      Like the Avatar? / Like the Miis?

      Dragalia Lost ID: 97617932505

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      • ARTEMlS
        ARTEMlS
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        Make Wano Great Again!

        Forum user Bartholemew Bear passed away in a very moving and touching way. I, ARTEMlS, therefore carry on the Will of DArth for good unto its final fulfilment.

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        • Deicide
          Deicide
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          Sorry, but this chapter has been one of the worst.

          It feels like filler. There’s no revelations, no bit turn, not even a cool fight, and most of what’s shown feels wither recycled or repeated.

          Big flame dragon attack? We saw another in the same arc.

          Flashback of the 20 years of suffering? We saw one already, plus the ideas were already hammered down on us for over 100+ chapters. I understand this flashback is meant to enhance our feelings towards Orochi, but it could easily be cut in half and focus on the few new scenes.

          Orochi being decapitated? We saw it seven times already. Counting he being burned, he “died” nine times. IMO it would have been better to make Kaido killing him his definitive death, because his later appearances were just pointless.

          Denjiro saving Hyiori? Everyone and their mothers expected that. I hope at least there’s a short tender Hyiori/Denjiro scene next chapter to better cap it off.

          Every other plot point didn’t advance. Momo is still struggling, the “final” strike is still ongoing. This chapter may read better in the volume, but on its own it kinda fails.

          On another note: are Usopp’s scenes going somewhere? Once he left with Kiku and Kin, I expected him to disappear for a while, but he’s often covered again and again, and he’s the only SH in this arc that has done nothing special. Brook qnd Chopper didn’t get their fights, but at least had shining moments. Usopp is just there, and the story seems to be placing him in a spot where he may get to do something…

          Wano predictions: There will be 5 acts; All Straw Hats will get fights, some in Act 4; Big Mom Pirates will arrive; Carrot will have her moment, but won't join; Yamato will be a Kouzuki samurai and Wano's Guardian; Shanks will visit Luffy in Act 5; Next arc is Mary Geoise.

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          • S
            Scabbard Avenger
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            A chapter with a lot of redundant and repetitive stuff. I was reminded that characters I found interesting in act 2 have been reduced to unimportant figures that disturb the Roof Piece sequences, the only thing most people care about. Kaido coating himself into an even larger fire dragon was awesome, but all in all this doesn't feel like an absolute conclusion, the awakening was the peak of this fight and it became boring quickly.

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            • KageKageKing
              KageKageKing
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              Yo dawg, we put a dragon over your dragon so your dragon can dragon while he dragons.

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              • The Franky Tank
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                Well with a chapter of nothing but build up for the final punch, hopefully next chapter will be the final chapter of this fight. Put me down as one that didn't care about this chapter, between not caring as much about this arc overall and just getting plain tired at how long it has been going on, the build up of emotion just didn't affect me.

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                • Zhenja
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                  So, we're gonna act like Kaidou didn't hear Higurashi, turned Momo, calling Oden father?

                  https://manga4life.com/read-online/One-Piece-chapter-970-page-13.html

                  SirCaesar blackness662 B 3 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • SirCaesar
                    SirCaesar @Zhenja
                    @Zhenja last edited by
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                    @Zhenja:

                    So, we're gonna act like Kaidou didn't hear Higurashi, turned Momo, calling Oden father?

                    https://manga4life.com/read-online/One-Piece-chapter-970-page-13.html

                    Jesus, this is a bad blunder. Is Oda ill?

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                    • The Light of Shandora
                      The Light of Shandora
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                      I think the break didn't help this chapter, seeing the long flash back, which was IMO another Orochi flash back and was filled with information we already knew, is redundant.
                      Kaidos final attack, is it more for defense or is it also a attacking move, I couldn't tell.

                      The callback to Luffy training his outward Haki was ok, so it is needed to finish Kaido off, if this is the set up for the final attacks and clash.
                      Denjiro has to kill Orochi with this attack, cause he has no more heads left.
                      It was nice to see the balloons, with the wishes of the wanonese. Now I'm only waiting to see the balloons of Oden and Toki to push Momo over the edge to generate enough flame clouds to put Onigashima on his back and move it out of the way.

                      SW-3170-8630-8341

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                      • KageKageKing
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                        Are we getting that rumoured Kaido's past at Rocks flashback or what?

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                        • blackness662
                          blackness662 @Zhenja
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                          @Zhenja:

                          So, we're gonna act like Kaidou didn't hear Higurashi, turned Momo, calling Oden father?

                          https://manga4life.com/read-online/One-Piece-chapter-970-page-13.html

                          Great find, I haven't realised the mistake till now…
                          Really big oversight from Oda.

                          I hope that the fight will end in the next chapter.
                          The arc has lost all of its momentum, everybody wants to move on.

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                          • B
                            Blissed @Zhenja
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                            @Zhenja:

                            So, we're gonna act like Kaidou didn't hear Higurashi, turned Momo, calling Oden father?

                            https://manga4life.com/read-online/One-Piece-chapter-970-page-13.html

                            A scene where the both of them are clearly in the heat of battle is pretty easy to explain away tbh

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                            • Monquito
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                              Whats really interesting about Kaido learning of Momo's existence last minute, is that Orochi knew it all the time, but never told Kaido before, not even when Oden wasnt there to protect them.

                              Even tho, I recall he did send an assassin.

                              Still, it seems Orochi didnt really wish to kill the Kozukis as long as they get out of the way, which is why, they all were safe and sound in Kuri(still likely even Kuziyaki is alive), but Oden went to wage war, and that was(supposed to be) the end of them.

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                              • D
                                Dany @KageKageKing
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                                @KageKageKing:

                                Are we getting that rumoured Kaido's past at Rocks flashback or what?

                                That would be great so the arc could end sooner, but i doubt it. Most likely we will get his flashback after he gets beat here; he will then go into his awakened form, then the final battle will finally begin. :getlost:

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                                • KageKageKing
                                  KageKageKing @Dany
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                                  @Dany:

                                  That would be great so the arc could end sooner, but i doubt it. Most likely we will get his flashback after he gets beat here; he will then go into his awakened form, then the final battle will finally begin. :getlost:

                                  Did you just said that the arc would end later right after saying it would end sooner?

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                                  • D
                                    Dany @KageKageKing
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                                    @KageKageKing:

                                    Did you just said that the arc would end later right after saying it would end sooner?

                                    It would end sooner if he doesn't get a flashback. He most likely will get one so the arc will end later. 😄

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                                    • Captain M
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                                      Back again for what feels very, very much like the penultimate chapter of Luffy and Kaido's exhausting battle, moving all the pieces to their final destinations and reminding everyone of the emotional stakes. But first there's the cover story, which suggests but does not explicitly show the obvious Vinsmoke solution. Interesting. Could be a big misdirect. Still isn't Blackbeard any way you slice it though.

                                      Kaido's enormous, seemingly-magma coated final form is an incredible bit of art, one of the coolest things Oda's drawn. There was a moment where I felt a little disappointed that it's so similar to King's final attack, but it actually makes for an interesting show of King's loyalty to Kaido for saving him, that he would develop moves in his captain's image. Kaido's tail burning off the tip of Onigashima's other horn is a return to symmetry we're nearly fifty chapters overdue for.

                                      I really like that Luffy's training with Hyogoro is still relevant in this final stage. The two big upgrades - conqueror coating and Gear Five - that came up during the Onigashima fight quickly overshadowed the skill that it took all of Act 2 to figure out. All those chapters might have felt wasted if we didn't have a moment here to make it completely clear that projecting haki off your body is a totally unique skill that hasn't been folded into the CoC coating, and without Kaido pulling out an ultimate move that would slag Luffy's arm without it. I don't know if I'll ever consider Wano to be the series' most graceful arc structurally, but Oda's commitment to remembering the fine details and bringing them full circle is forever admirable.

                                      I don't think there's much really worth commenting on in the flashbacks here aside from how grim the scene with the noose is. It's all been shown before. It can feel a little redundant going over it again from a weekly perspective, but every panel adds weight to what's coming next week. This chapter should breeze by on the reread. It is nice seeing the "fool of a lord" comment turned back on Orochi, if nothing else. I wasn't even expecting that to come up again, but Oda brings it full circle just the same.

                                      Oden having a son does feel like something Kaido should know, even discounting the likelihood he wouldn't have been able to hear the face hag's words in the heat of battle. Maybe it's a translation issue? Like the original line is less 'so he has a son' and more 'so they're going for his son,' both of which could be expressed through just 'his son, huh?' and extrapolated. Also on the translation front, it seems weird that sound effect behind the Scabbards as they flee Oden's execution in the flashback is translated as the dramatic Doom and not the gunshot sound Blam when it seems to be representing Oden getting shot by Kaido.

                                      Orochi being finally slain by Denjiro is what I and many others have been saying for like half this arc. Having the Scabbard who spent years keeping his head down in the monster's employ be the one to deliver the finishing blow (as he must have dreamed of doing so many times over the decades) is exactly the right ending. Credit where it's due, though, I've been wondering for weeks what the point was in keeping Orochi around as long as he lasted, but timing it alongside the lanterns going upwas the right choice. From a narrative perspective, we all know Kaido is and always was the last boss, but to the people of Wano, Orochi is the face of their oppression. That he falls only after they wish for it makes for a great dramatic moment.

                                      I think this all ends next week. Maybe Kaido's defeat isn't confirmed by the narration until 1050, but Oda is leaning too hard on this giant fist for it not to be the finishing move, and there's no way it's not coming down next week. Most of the chapter probably focuses on Momo finding his courage and shifting the island, with a page or two to finish the sequence of the water flowing through the castle and out onto the Performance Floor, but then we wrap this bad boy up. Apoo and Inbi and that last CP0 guy can scuttle away and be fully dealt with in the post-battle section, like Caribou was on Fishman Island. Kaido's flashback, whatever kind of one he gets, can come as he blacks out like it did for King. But all of the story's momentum right now, especially with this week's straight up anticipation chapter, is behind that fist and its imminent fall.

                                      Vivre Card Archive One Piece in One Piece Covers Compilation

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                                      • StrawHatJedi
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                                        I don't think this is going to end the fight. I still don't think Luffy can win alone here. I think we're building toward a false ending where it looks like Kaido is defeated, but isn't.

                                        Luffy, Zoro, Nami, Usopp, Sanji, Chopper, Robin, Franky, Brook, Jimbei, Carrot, Vivi, Smoker

                                        "ONE PIECE, IT EXISTS" - The Great Pirate Edward Newgate

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                                        • Monquito
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                                          If that punch would be meant to fail, it would've be thrown already.

                                          This battle cannot stretch any longer, it must end.

                                          The arc however, could easily take another 10 chapters for its epilogue.

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                                          • Deicide
                                            Deicide
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                                            I’m sure the epilogue will take an entire volume, if not more.

                                            There’s a lot to unwrap, but each chapter will be pure fire:

                                            • Zoro’s recuperation and visit to Ryuma’s grave
                                            • Robin getting to translate juicy info from six Poneglyphs.
                                            • The fate of the Warlords. Maybe also Sabo’s and Vivi’s.
                                            • Shanks something something
                                            • What Blackbeard is doing
                                            • Conclusion to Wano characters’ arcs: Yamato, Tama, Momo, Hyiori, Kin, the scabbards, minks, Hitetsu…
                                            • Consequences of Gear 5th
                                            • WG stance on Wano
                                            • Zunisha’s history and destiny.

                                            And probably more I forgot.

                                            Wano predictions: There will be 5 acts; All Straw Hats will get fights, some in Act 4; Big Mom Pirates will arrive; Carrot will have her moment, but won't join; Yamato will be a Kouzuki samurai and Wano's Guardian; Shanks will visit Luffy in Act 5; Next arc is Mary Geoise.

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                                            • StrawHatJedi
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                                              No backstory (Oda intentionally obscured the appearance of 15 year old Kaido in 1041) or awakening for Kaido. Toki's prophecy hasn't come into play (Nine Shadows), and I still think it's impossible for Kaido to be bested 1v1 because of his Devil Fruit.

                                              I don't think the punch is going to fail. I think it's going to appear to succeed. But Awakened Zoans don't stay down for long. Luffy has resurrected multiple times in this battle. If Kaido isn't granted at least one himself, it will feel like a hollow artificial victory.

                                              There problem here is Kaido was introduced as the 'world's strongest living creature'. Luffy can't beat him 1v1 in a battle of strength without taking that title for himself… unless there's a twist.

                                              "In a one-on-one fight, always bet on Kaido."

                                              Incredibly good fortune in one-on-one battles afforded to him by his mythical fish fruit. We've seen it at work twice - in chapter 970 and 1042.

                                              I think Luffy is going to need the help of the 'Nine Shadows' (Akazaya, dead or alive) to finish the fight.

                                              Luffy, Zoro, Nami, Usopp, Sanji, Chopper, Robin, Franky, Brook, Jimbei, Carrot, Vivi, Smoker

                                              "ONE PIECE, IT EXISTS" - The Great Pirate Edward Newgate

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                                              • Monquito
                                                Monquito @StrawHatJedi
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                                                @Vongola_Boss_XI:

                                                No backstory (Oda intentionally obscured the appearance of 15 year old Kaido in 1041) or awakening for Kaido. Toki's prophecy hasn't come into play (Nine Shadows), and I still think it's impossible for Kaido to be bested 1v1 because of his Devil Fruit.

                                                Honest thought here, I had huge expectations for this arc most of the time, but we've just gone one dissapointment after another, that I just lowered them a lot.

                                                Going by chapter count, this arc is ridiculosly large and should end asap.

                                                And, if Kaido's defeat is planned to be delivered as poorly as most others, then yes, this is 100% it.

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                                                • StrawHatJedi
                                                  StrawHatJedi @Monquito
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                                                  @Monquito:

                                                  Honest thought here, I had huge expectations for this arc most of the time, but we've just gone one dissapointment after another, that I just lowered them a lot.

                                                  Going by chapter count, this arc is ridiculosly large and should end asap.

                                                  And, if Kaido's defeat is planned to be delivered as poorly as most others, then yes, this is 100% it.

                                                  Possibly - I'm just not ready to give up on it yet. Something I'll point out - there is no "___ vs. Kaido" chapter title yet. "Zoro vs. King", "Sanji vs. Queen", "Law & Kid vs. Big Mom", etc.

                                                  Luffy, Zoro, Nami, Usopp, Sanji, Chopper, Robin, Franky, Brook, Jimbei, Carrot, Vivi, Smoker

                                                  "ONE PIECE, IT EXISTS" - The Great Pirate Edward Newgate

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                                                  • Ivotas
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                                                    Oh look the dangerous guy we kept on a leash for several years and whom we also had under constant survaillance by a spy turns out to have had a son! Who could have ever figured that one out?

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                                                    • blue-san
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                                                      Cant wait for this weeks spoilers and chapter. So interested in how Oda is going to "solve" the ending to this or for starters the continuation of the last chapter.

                                                      人事を尽くして天命を待つ

                                                      Link to my AMVs

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                                                      • Deicide
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                                                        I want to agree with those who expect Kaido to still get up and be defeated by the nine shadows.
                                                        Those were things like I was expecting to happen since the start of the raid.

                                                        However, I’m so tired of this arc, and Oda’s choices have been so strange, that I wouldn’t be surprised if this is indeed the final clash.

                                                        Wano predictions: There will be 5 acts; All Straw Hats will get fights, some in Act 4; Big Mom Pirates will arrive; Carrot will have her moment, but won't join; Yamato will be a Kouzuki samurai and Wano's Guardian; Shanks will visit Luffy in Act 5; Next arc is Mary Geoise.

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                                                        • Johnny B. Decent
                                                          Johnny B. Decent @Ivotas
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                                                          @Ivotas:

                                                          Oh look the dangerous guy we kept on a leash for several years and whom we also had under constant survaillance by a spy turns out to have had a son! Who could have ever figured that one out?

                                                          Yeah, that's a bit of a writing oopsies there.

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                                                          • Robby
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                                                            All the elements seem to be in play for this being the final attack. The lantern wishes, the long delay on the attack, the brief flashback reminding of us what's at stake, Kaidou finally revealing a new super move… it FEELS like the end and its certainly run long enough...

                                                            but it also feels like a ball dropped on a LOT of things. He's gotta see adult Oden looking Momo before going down, right? And the drama of the island needing to fall, the whole Momotaro thing... confirmation of his awakening ultimate power move... (If the fire dragon is it that's fine, the scale is certainly there) it just overall feels... off.

                                                            If this IS the end, fine, its gone long enough, but it just really feels... off. Like the actual catharsis just isn't there.

                                                            I'm not saying there's a checklist of things that I personally ust see before I believe it, I don't want to be one those.... but its just lacking a lot of fundamentals of drama and storytelling that I know Oda is a master off so its weird for them to not be there.

                                                            WHy spend FIFTY chapters with the threat of the falling island, including hte last 20 being Moo trying to stop it, and then not pay that off? THat can't possibly be right.

                                                            I still think maybe this is the hit that mostly finishes the job and takes Luffy out... but Kaidou is left with enough juice to still be a threat, but capable of being confronted by others.

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                                                            • astagadragon
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                                                              What a waste of chapter (again). Almost 70% are informations we already knew. Alright Wano is suffering… yeah we knew that since 2018! Alright Orochi is a piece of shit... yeah we knew that since 2018! Alright Kaido attacked Oden's castle... yeah we knew that since 2018! Etc etc.

                                                              Just... go on with it, goddammit.

                                                              I know that Oda want to reiterate the toughness of Kaido with multiple chapters of Luffy still struggling despite literally claimed the power of god... BUT if he focused the chapters elsewhere instead of showing Kaido tanking Luffy's godly attack, then what is the point?

                                                              Instead we saw Orochi which is more durable than the Calamities and Tobiroppo.

                                                              Sigh... what a waste.

                                                              "No more shall man have wings to bear him to paradise. Henceforth, he shall walk.." - Venat

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                                                              • Johnny B. Decent
                                                                Johnny B. Decent @astagadragon
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                                                                • Monquito
                                                                  Monquito @Robby
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                                                                  @Robby:

                                                                  He's gotta see adult Oden looking Momo before going down, right?.

                                                                  Not a good idea really, MomOden would just end up being another distraction like Higurashi and Cp-0, and winning by that causes regret.

                                                                  Its almost as if Oda was pre-justifying these kind of things, cause he really choose to short-cut the damn fight and end it right now.

                                                                  Similarily, yeah, the Samurai should be scared of falling to their deaths ala age of ultron, but we actually just seen them laughing at the idea of said scenario.

                                                                  Oda really doesnt care at this point.

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                                                                  • Johnny B. Decent
                                                                    Johnny B. Decent @Monquito
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                                                                    @Monquito:

                                                                    Not a good idea really, MomOden would just end up being another distraction like Higurashi and Cp-0, and winning by that causes regret.

                                                                    Its almost as if Oda was pre-justifying these kind of things, cause he really choose to short-cut the damn fight and end it right now.

                                                                    Similarily, yeah, the Samurai should be scared of falling to their deaths ala age of ultron, but we actually just seen them laughing at the idea of said scenario.

                                                                    Oda really doesnt care at this point.

                                                                    It was just said like a chapter or two ago that as long as Kaido is defeated and Wano is freed, that they're willing to die for that goal.

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                                                                    • Marcotty
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                                                                      Cover page: Oh dear, that "I think/probably" creates a lot of room for a fake out. The set up is practically screaming for Brulee and Cracker to have a face fault when it's someone else. Definitely managing to keep my interest in updates to this cover story.

                                                                      Kaido's tailed beast chakra cloak is certainly cool. I was kinda hoping Kaido would go for trying to Kanabo bat the giant fist away, but I guess I can't complain about this one.

                                                                      I find the consistent Ussop updates to be curious. I don't know if it's building to something or if it's just to highlight Ussop's failings for future motivation for improvement in the Elbaf visit. Hamlet's looking more than just wiped out from devil fruit water drain… maybe the water really is gonna break all the gifters of Tama's fruit control. It's certainly a fine time to end that, since the island falling and Kaido's defeat is probably gonna end the rest of the fighting anyway.

                                                                      This is a weird flashback. Reiterating Orochi's evil was pretty unnecessary, but that's already been said by everyone. My personal first reaction to seeing citizens beg them to "Leave the Kozuki clan alone!" was me wanting Orochi to shout back about nobody doing the same for the Kurazumi clan. Yet, it didn't come, so I can't even be sure if I was even supposed to have a reaction like that.

                                                                      Oda definitely did as good as possible an attempt to convince me Orochi's actually finally dead. It's a very good send off for the scumbag and much better than the previous beheadings. I'm not gonna be surprised if he's still going though. It's easy to assume he should only have the 8 heads, but without getting it in writing in-universe, I'm not gonna trust that it's over.

                                                                      Kaido flashback can happen in post-Wano. I don't personally believe he'll just be given away to the government while unconscious anyway. I can't see Kaido going without having a conscious interaction with Yamato and Luffy as the loser. Of course, that's just me assuming Kaido will be an honorable loser and accept his defeat without going crazy in denial like Linlin would.

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                                                                      • Zhenja
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                                                                        Momo can drop Onigashina on him after Luffy punched him down, maybe he’ll stay down… :ninja:

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                                                                        • Deicide
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                                                                          I think Kaido flashback, if it happens, will be a short collection of scenes that will play in his mind as he falls defeated. Kinda like Big Mom monologuing about Roger, or King remembering his past with Kaido.

                                                                          Wano predictions: There will be 5 acts; All Straw Hats will get fights, some in Act 4; Big Mom Pirates will arrive; Carrot will have her moment, but won't join; Yamato will be a Kouzuki samurai and Wano's Guardian; Shanks will visit Luffy in Act 5; Next arc is Mary Geoise.

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                                                                          • StrawHatJedi
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                                                                            @Deicide:

                                                                            I think Kaido flashback, if it happens, will be a short collection of scenes that will play in his mind as he falls defeated. Kinda like Big Mom monologuing about Roger, or King remembering his past with Kaido.

                                                                            You may be right, but I would find that pretty unsatisfying - particularly for such a major antagonist. We got fully fleshed out backstories for Big Mom and Doflamingo at pivotal moments before their defeat. I feel like Kaido losing right now would feel a bit hollow because we really don't know what's at stake for him. Why is he trying to accomplish what he's trying to accomplish? Why does any of this matter to him?

                                                                            Luffy, Zoro, Nami, Usopp, Sanji, Chopper, Robin, Franky, Brook, Jimbei, Carrot, Vivi, Smoker

                                                                            "ONE PIECE, IT EXISTS" - The Great Pirate Edward Newgate

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                                                                            • B
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                                                                              We will get Kaido's flashback pre defeat, pretty confident on that.

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                                                                              • FatDogForMidTerms
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                                                                                Going against the general consensus here but I liked this chapter! Great art, decent drama stuff going on, fun details. Yeah plot didn't really move forward but ehhhh

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                                                                                • Kdom
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                                                                                  Yes the comments are harsh and in a volume release, it will probably not be as painful as a weekly release with 2 breaks in a row. Even if the flashback is only a recap of what we already know, it creates the satisfaction feeling that is needed when the heroes beat the bad guys.

                                                                                  Appart from that, the Denjiro scene was pretty weak. The guy has disappeared too long ago and we knew it would happen so the surprising effect does not work. It is a bit sad Hiyori is relagated to the princess in distress role.

                                                                                  As for Luffy and Kaidou, it seems we are reaching the end of the fight. I'm not really interested on what will win between the big haki punch or the blazing dragon rather than how Oda will make this scene satisfying.

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                                                                                  • Seafarer33
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                                                                                    @Ivotas:

                                                                                    Oh look the dangerous guy we kept on a leash for several years and whom we also had under constant survaillance by a spy turns out to have had a son! Who could have ever figured that one out?

                                                                                    That's what you get if Mr Overlord is drunk half the time and doesn't listen to spy reports the other half because anything other than fighting is a bore :getlost:

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                                                                                      The art was amazing. That's all the nice things I can say. Come on Lodestar and Laugh Tale. Before we go into the shit show that will be the final war.
                                                                                      Imagine there's a King Riku type on Lodestar and Luffy has to free Lodestar of Blacbeard. Cue King Riku the second flashback.

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                                                                                      • Deicide
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                                                                                        @Vongola_Boss_XI:

                                                                                        You may be right, but I would find that pretty unsatisfying - particularly for such a major antagonist. We got fully fleshed out backstories for Big Mom and Doflamingo at pivotal moments before their defeat. I feel like Kaido losing right now would feel a bit hollow because we really don't know what's at stake for him. Why is he trying to accomplish what he's trying to accomplish? Why does any of this matter to him?

                                                                                        I think a real flashback about Rocks may happen in a later arc, but I don't expect a Kaido-specific flashback anymore. A small collection of scenes (longer than King's, probably around seven pages like the flashback we got right now) will suffice to explain Kaido's motivations and leave us wanting more Rocks info.

                                                                                        Wano predictions: There will be 5 acts; All Straw Hats will get fights, some in Act 4; Big Mom Pirates will arrive; Carrot will have her moment, but won't join; Yamato will be a Kouzuki samurai and Wano's Guardian; Shanks will visit Luffy in Act 5; Next arc is Mary Geoise.

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                                                                                        • Daz
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                                                                                          Sadly, I think any Kaidou flashback - that is to say, any wider elaboration on the motivation, or even the true goal of the main antagonist - is staying firmly in the Mystery Box. Because giving said context would provide big "spoilers" for what is likely to be the revelations/mysteries driving reader engagement to the finale. Its gonna be like with Doflamingo, where vague notions about creating a world war or knowing the secret or Marijois or becoming immortal never really gelled into anything coherent. Just a lot of "payoff:pending".
                                                                                          Villains like Crocodile may have been less "deep" and concepts like Pluton lingered, but you didn't feel like you were missing huge chunks of the puzzle. The baseline was "Crocodile wants to become king through subterfuge, because he's a bad guy who wants to be king". Pluton then came later, but slotted cleanly onto this framework as "a big bad weapon that would help Crocodile maintain his status as king, the goal we knew he had".

                                                                                          –- Update From New Post Merge ---

                                                                                          Anyway, flashbacks to provide oomph for the final blow is nothing new for the series, though a chapters worth certainly is - perhaps a result of Wanos record-breaking length? I think it works decently in terms of ramping up the pathos, and there certainly is a lot of good art. Though I find it perplexing that even this late in the game, all of the personal beef, the more hands on cackling villainy, is still on Orochi. It still feels very much like a Spandam -Lucchi dynamic, but one where "Spandam" has been stripped of power for the last 50+ chapters, and where the "Lucchi" is a gosh darn pirate emperor who's been built up for 400 chapters as the endgame antagonist, who very much has his own goals...
                                                                                          I just wish I hated Kaidou. At least Lucchi was a proper asshole, here it feels like beating Kaidou would be the best thing that ever happened to him

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                                                                                          • Alfiere
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                                                                                            @Marcotty:

                                                                                            My personal first reaction to seeing citizens beg them to "Leave the Kozuki clan alone!" was me wanting Orochi to shout back about nobody doing the same for the Kurazumi clan. Yet, it didn't come, so I can't even be sure if I was even supposed to have a reaction like that.

                                                                                            This is definetly an aspect for which i don't understand what Oda is ultimately going for. If you look at just the text, you have a clan whose leader attempted a coup against the reigning dinasty, failed and as a result his entire people was literally progromed to near extintion, mostly by common people without the authorities apparently doing anything about it. You'd expect some nuance of commentary on that, wouldn't you?

                                                                                            Yet in tone and charachterization this was never presented with sympathy, every single Kurozumi ever was a evil piece of shit and one could very easily argue that they were better off all dead. So it's implied that some minorities are indeed naturally evil and persecution can sometimes be a necessary evil? Some people are just good, some are just evil and you can somewhat accurately assume which is which based on their family name?

                                                                                            In this chapter the paragon of virtue daimyos didn't try to fight off Kaido and Orochi for their tiranny or misdeeds towards the Wano population… but rather because they didn't want a non-Kozuki Shogun.

                                                                                            On the other hand we got Kaido who, despite doing the heavy lifting with the oppression and enslavement and being in general a big bully, is drop fed the sympathetic villain medicine, with plenty hints of past abuse and mistreatment, an on/off honour code, big romantic dreams and so on and so forth.

                                                                                            Dunno, i still have a glimps of hope that it will go down the "the Kozuki learned that a good chunk of the traedy that befall them was caused by their own past misconduct and decide to break the circle of hate" road, but i'm afraid we're going for the easy "the Kozuki are so good they've forgiven the Kurozumi despite them being so dastardly evil" instead.

                                                                                            Curiosity has its own reason for existing

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                                                                                            • Daz
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                                                                                              The whole Korozumi thing is definetely weird, and reminds me a lot of Doflamingo where great pains were taken to give him a sympathetic villain origin story only for Corazon to go "no, Doflamingo was totally born evil".

                                                                                              If we're getting any resolution to the Korozumi plotline at all (which is not certain), it might be the speculated Tama Korozumi reveal which would provide an easy out of "see, they're not all bad! We forgive them! Yay us!" Which would be a bit of a cheat considering Tama has never shown any awareness of her heritage, and has spent the entire preceding arc being as helpful and sympathetic as possible. I just don't see any room for actual lesson learning, not when we're given a conga line of decapitation moments to cheer for with the person who actually suffered at the hands of Korozumi persecution.

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                                                                                              • DarthAsthma
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                                                                                                I was on board with the kurozumi tama theories like some odd 40 chapters ago but whenever she had her big moment of helping to turn the tide I feel like that kinda finished any potential Tama plots bar celebrating along at the end. Like people still think there is somehow like 2 more years of Wano I feel with how many additional things people want to happen but I think it's kinda clear that Wano has been pushing to wrap up ever since Oda started all the strawhat matchups.

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                                                                                                • Rean
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                                                                                                  For a chapter that's purely about set-up and thematics, I thought this chapter was actually quite good at re-establishing the very human stakes behind the raid on Onigashima, something that has been out of focus for quite a while now. Just because you want to see something specific happen (whether it's the end of the fight or the raid failing in its entirety) doesn't mean that the material is bad just because it didn't drive the plot forward.

                                                                                                  Also really good to see Denjiro finally showing up, if I had to guess, Hiyori's plan involved him being the one to land the final blow all along, but was disrupted by Kanjuro's fire beast appearing.

                                                                                                  @Robby:

                                                                                                  All the elements seem to be in play for this being the final attack. The lantern wishes, the long delay on the attack, the brief flashback reminding of us what's at stake, Kaidou finally revealing a new super move… it FEELS like the end and its certainly run long enough...

                                                                                                  but it also feels like a ball dropped on a LOT of things. He's gotta see adult Oden looking Momo before going down, right? And the drama of the island needing to fall, the whole Momotaro thing... confirmation of his awakening ultimate power move... (If the fire dragon is it that's fine, the scale is certainly there) it just overall feels... off.

                                                                                                  If this IS the end, fine, its gone long enough, but it just really feels... off. Like the actual catharsis just isn't there.

                                                                                                  I'm not saying there's a checklist of things that I personally ust see before I believe it, I don't want to be one those.... but its just lacking a lot of fundamentals of drama and storytelling that I know Oda is a master off so its weird for them to not be there.

                                                                                                  WHy spend FIFTY chapters with the threat of the falling island, including hte last 20 being Moo trying to stop it, and then not pay that off? THat can't possibly be right.

                                                                                                  I still think maybe this is the hit that mostly finishes the job and takes Luffy out... but Kaidou is left with enough juice to still be a threat, but capable of being confronted by others.

                                                                                                  I'm writing this in a hurry between work and gym time, so please excuse the rambly feel here..

                                                                                                  I've been thinking a lot about how Oda seems to be going for something a bit different when it comes to the ending of this arc, and one thing that kinda popped out to me is that despite how big the stakes and scale of the Wano struggle and fight, in some ways, the traditional "strawhats arrive and free oppressed island" arc structure has been basically distilled to its most basic and core elements.

                                                                                                  The citizens of Wano aren't under any kind of spell or illusion or deception cast by the villain, whether it's subterfuge-based like how Crocodile planned to turn Alabastans against each other, how Caesar fooled the kids/Brownbeard's people, or CP9 fooling W7 residents while they tracked down the ancient weapon (among many other examples), nor is there a literal spell that bounds the residents, like how the Dressrosa locals were fucked over by Sugar's fruit or the shadowless Thriller Bark captives. Instead, everyone in Wano knows exactly why they are in the predicament they are in, and exactly what they need to do to wrest their freedom back, but simply lack the raw strength to actually execute said things because one exceedingly powerful man is there.

                                                                                                  This to me feels like the reason Oda seems very determined to have the Wano normies be completely out of the picture, after all, why do they need to witness anything? They lack the capability to help from a strength standpoint, and they aren't gonna suddenly realize what they are already established to know extremely well (that Orochi/Kaido are terrible for them and need to go). Even the Momo as Oden doppleganger angle has already been established as more of a solution to the legitimacy problem in the prison scene (i.e. that would be the moment they realize Luffy isn't there to be the next slavemaster), so they don't need to see adultified Momo until all has been done with.

                                                                                                  The only way all this makes sense to me is if Oda plans on having Kaido go down in an extremely low-key and understated way by Kaido's standards, after all, the absolute best punishment for a villain that wants to die in grandiose fashion is to have him go down in a super low-key fashion that barely makes an impact on the world at large.

                                                                                                  I think a lot of the arc's issues lies in the contradiction of massive scope combined with what has so far been an extremely simplistic (and extremely theatrically-presented) plot, to the point where almost any wrinkle Oda throws in simply feels like an artificial delay to the plot, rather than something more natural-feeling. And while I'm not a powerscaler by any means, Oda has really painted himself into a corner here when it comes to how big the difference between Kaido and Luffy is, to the point where Luffy KO's have the least impact I have seen in a long while now.

                                                                                                  With all that said, Wano will be the most discussed and most controversial arc in OP history imo, mainly because it's the arc with the most esoteric lore drops, the arc with the most key characters involved in definitive fights (as opposed to the skirmishes we saw in Marineford), and some of the strangest plotting decisions in a long while imo.

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                                                                                                  • kevo_koma
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                                                                                                    Its so weird to me how may Wano citizens are so gang ho about the Kozukis.

                                                                                                    Like before Oden. There was nothing to really show they were great leaders.

                                                                                                    Hell, they were so incompetent. They let an entire region of their country fall into absolute lawlessness.

                                                                                                    Like, I am pretty sure no one leaving there was having a great time before Oden came along.

                                                                                                    Also, I agree about the Kurozumis.

                                                                                                    Its incredibly weird that the same author who wrote Fishman island, is also writing this plot line.

                                                                                                    It could be argued that the Kozuki's are the ones who created Orochi and Kanjurou.

                                                                                                    Naruto approached that plotline SOO much better with the Uchihas.

                                                                                                    HOW COME LUFFY NEVER KILLS AN ENEMY?

                                                                                                    ODA:ITS BECAUSE IN THAT ERA EVERYONE USES THEIR LIVES TO FIGHT FOR THEIR DREAMS. FOR AN ENEMY WHEN THEIR DREAM HAS BEEN SHATTERED,IT IS AS PAINFUL AS DEATH,I BELIEVE FOR A PIRATE NOT TO KILL AN ENEMY , IT'S GIVING THEM A SECOND CHANCE TO FIGHT FOR THEIR DREAMS.

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                                                                                                    • Daz
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                                                                                                      @Rean:

                                                                                                      The citizens of Wano aren't under any kind of spell or illusion or deception cast by the villain, whether it's subterfuge-based like how Crocodile planned to turn Alabastans against each other, how Caesar fooled the kids/Brownbeard's people, or CP9 fooling W7 residents while they tracked down the ancient weapon (among many other examples), nor is there a literal spell that bounds the residents, like how the Dressrosa locals were fucked over by Sugar's fruit or the shadowless Thriller Bark captives. Instead, everyone in Wano knows exactly why they are in the predicament they are in, and exactly what they need to do to wrest their freedom back, but simply lack the raw strength to actually execute said things because one exceedingly powerful man is there.

                                                                                                      Its weird, because for a moment things seemed more complicated than that - you had the scene of Wano kids getting indoctrinated, you had the capital in general being prosperous, there were plenty of asshole samurais…but then we end up with the citizenry being secretly wall-to-wall pro kozuki, the capital citizens in particular being the innocents to be saved from the onagashima drop, and almost all bad samurai seemingly compressed into the Mimosa Goon Squad, or whatever it was called. Like the supposedly corrupted but not really citizens of Dressrosa the arc feigned at more complexity than it ultimately settled on.

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                                                                                                      • Zar
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                                                                                                        I liked aspects of this chapter. Like the lanterns rising to the sky as Denjiro decapitates a burning Orochi, showing the citizen's wishes becoming true. It's heart-warming. As a stand-alone, this chapter is pretty good at building hype for the final attack.

                                                                                                        But the chapter irks me as a reminder of how little I care for everything depicted. Luffy using a special Haki technique doesn't have the same oomph as when he pulled out Boundman or Snakeman. Kaido I'm still confused what emotion he's supposed to get out of me. Hatred? Sympathy? Orochi is beheaded for the third time by the samurai I care the least about and instead of going into any depth into him he's written off as a monster. Hiyori goes so far as to nail Orochi down only to fail because she's a dainty woman who shouldn't bloody her hands. Then the citizens and their struggle which comes off as generic and rubbed in my face rather than sympathetic.

                                                                                                        I'd care more if the chapter focused on characters and events we know well. Imagine if instead of having the focus on Otoko last chapter, we got it in this one, maybe with the Tengu thinking back to Yasuie's execution and having that parallel to Oden's beheading.

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