Chapter 1,020: Robin vs Black Maria

Captain M

Yeah, that would make a lot of sense. And it would explain some things like how she covered up her breasts, etc. My memory is a bit bland, but have we seen any such hybrid forms in the past where it looked half human, half animal? I think currently Black Maria might be the only one? I'm still a little iffy on it, but it can work with how Black Maria has her illusion mist.

Or it might be what Deicide was stating that the top portion is an illusion, and maybe that's why it was covered up that way. Maybe it's a hint/clue on the top half being an illusion, and the spider being the real Black Maria? I guess we have to see next chapter.

I don't know about it being an illusion specifically. She's up there swinging Wanyudo around, damaging the environment and lighting fires. Brook would have noticed something if he tried to attack Wanyudo and found nothing there. So there's obviously something physical up on top doing the work, and its physical strength is not insignificant. A web double I could maybe see, but I would have been a lot more receptive to this theory before this chapter came out and we saw her doing so much of the fighting.

Oda's totally willing to break the Zoan rules when the animal doesn't anthropomorphise easily, or if he has a fun idea for something different. Suppose we say the "normal" hybrid form is like Kaido's, with the animal-patterned arms and clawed human hands, a cowling from the nose up and a tail depending on the creature. Then you've got Chopper, whose huge range of forms has none that fit the hybrid expectations (or a fully transformed space); the Boa sisters, whose presumed hybrid modes include full snake torsos with human arms and breasts; the differences between Pell and Marco, with the latter's hybrid mode looking head-to-toe like a humanoid bird, including avian feet replacing his hands, while the former just has wings replace his arms and a tail out the back; or Kaku, who got full-body fur, hooves on his hands, a long neck and a weirdly cube-like set of shoulders.

The choice to make Black Maria a spider centaur is not one that stands out to me as a loose end or deliberate hint at something more. I could be wrong of course, but that angle isn't really vibing with me.

Deicide

@Captain:

I don't know about it being an illusion specifically.

An illusion does not need to be a mind trick. Wanyudo looks like a wheel demon, but it's actually a pug SMILE running a treadmill. Black Maria's human torso being a web puppet counts as an "illusion" in the sense that it's deception. It tricks the opponents so they waste attacks against a false Black Maria, even if that puppet is physically real and wield a real weapon to attack.

Black Maria having an illusion theme just reinforces the idea that there's something wrong with her hybrid form.

The choice to make Black Maria a spider centaur is not one that stands out to me as a loose end or deliberate hint at something more. I could be wrong of course, but that angle isn't really vibing with me.

The problem is Black Maria getting a second head in her hybrid form. That implies independence of the spider half. If she was just a spider-centaur, I'd be way less suspicious, but a second head on the animal half looks like a SMILE, something we know for sure she's not. The fake torso being destroyed, only for Maria to reveal a true hybrid form, would make a lot of sense.

Ahlskie

I can't wait to see Big Mom experience Black Maria's illusion power. After all, they are both BM too. We don't see the full extent of Black Maria's illusion. I bet Big Mom will show it to us. And if it did, this will trigger unprecedent type of tantrum. She might destroy Onigashima and save Wano. If anyone can stop this flying island, it's Big Mom.

Captain M

@Deicide:

An illusion does not need to be a mind trick. Wanyudo looks like a wheel demon, but it's actually a pug SMILE running a treadmill. Black Maria's human torso being a web puppet counts as an "illusion" in the sense that it's deception. It tricks the opponents so they waste attacks against a false Black Maria, even if that puppet is physically real and wield a real weapon to attack.

Black Maria having an illusion theme just reinforces the idea that there's something wrong with her hybrid form.

The problem is Black Maria getting a second head in her hybrid form. That implies independence of the spider half. If she was just a spider-centaur, I'd be way less suspicious, but a second head on the animal half looks like a SMILE, something we know for sure she's not. The fake torso being destroyed, only for Maria to reveal a true hybrid form, would make a lot of sense.

Not to get nitpicky over terms but the distinction between an illusion and an "illusion" is pretty dang important to keep straight when the character literally has the power to make illusions of people who aren't there.

I agree that the second face is a bit strange compared to other zoans we've seen, but we know Oda is totally willing and able to change the rules when he wants to have fun with it. I'm not trying to say it definitely won't happen or that it wouldn't be a cool development if it did, but I'm just not convinced it's the only way forward.

Chams

Didn't see anyone mentioning it in the spoilers, but how awesome it was that the "character boxes" of Black Maria's subordinates were tilted to the side just as Robin punched them?

Kishido

So Stephen explained himself in the podcast and goes with Sanji being one of 2 wings.

Should have used it from the very start…

Riccardo

@Deicide:

Black Maria is the first to show a transformation like that. I wouldn't mind if it was just the "spider-centaur" appearance, what makes me suspicious is the spider half having its own head. That implies it has some independence, a lot like the SMILE users. But, since her powers is confirmed to be an Akuma no mi, the upper human half being a decoy while Black Maria is actually the spider makes perfect sense. It would also allow for a second reveal of her fruit, showing its true hybrid form.

I think the second reveal could be the key here. I can see Who's Who and Sasaki going for a round 2 by having awakened their fruit, but I'm of the opinion that it would be too much if Black Maria is also on that level. That way she can make a "comeback" without being too strong.

Buggy D. Clown

damn, the spoilers are late for this week ?

Coookie

@Buggy:

damn, the spoilers are late for this week ?

Jump comes out one day later than usual so it stands to reason this shift will also affect spoilers

Deicide

@Riccardo:

I think the second reveal could be the key here. I can see Who's Who and Sasaki going for a round 2 by having awakened their fruit, but I'm of the opinion that it would be too much if Black Maria is also on that level. That way she can make a "comeback" without being too strong.

Yeah. I think the will be a Franky vs Sasaki round 2, now with Franky without the Shogun, and a Robin vs Maria round 2, now with Maria's true form.

I'm not sold on a round 2 for Who's Who vs Jinbe, thought. That fight was so one sided, I feel Jinbe will move to a stronger opponent. Maybe Who's Who gets up but Jinbe is gone, and he then gets in the way of Drake, leaving Apoo free for Brook. Meanwhile, Jinbe ends up fighting a commander-level threat, be it Jack or (my personal bet due to powers and personal issues) a recently-arriving Smoothie.

Buggy D. Clown

@Coookie:

Jump comes out one day later than usual so it stands to reason this shift will also affect spoilers

16 chars of thanks

starlalilymoon

@Captain:

I don't know about it being an illusion specifically. She's up there swinging Wanyudo around, damaging the environment and lighting fires. Brook would have noticed something if he tried to attack Wanyudo and found nothing there. So there's obviously something physical up on top doing the work, and its physical strength is not insignificant. A web double I could maybe see, but I would have been a lot more receptive to this theory before this chapter came out and we saw her doing so much of the fighting.

Hmmm, I didn't think about Brook seeing through the illusion. That is a good point you brought there.

Oda's totally willing to break the Zoan rules when the animal doesn't anthropomorphise easily, or if he has a fun idea for something different. Suppose we say the "normal" hybrid form is like Kaido's, with the animal-patterned arms and clawed human hands, a cowling from the nose up and a tail depending on the creature. Then you've got Chopper, whose huge range of forms has none that fit the hybrid expectations (or a fully transformed space); the Boa sisters, whose presumed hybrid modes include full snake torsos with human arms and breasts; the differences between Pell and Marco, with the latter's hybrid mode looking head-to-toe like a humanoid bird, including avian feet replacing his hands, while the former just has wings replace his arms and a tail out the back; or Kaku, who got full-body fur, hooves on his hands, a long neck and a weirdly cube-like set of shoulders.

Yes, that is true. I mean I do like how this hybrid form looks like on Black Maria, so it is not a bad thing. Though I guess I thought it being an illusion would explain why she looked that way, guess it would be hard to draw a spider zoan in hybrid form, so I guess this works.

Though there's also the weird part with the bottom half having a face. Hmmm. I guess it might go either way. I guess we have to see what happens in the next chapter.

The choice to make Black Maria a spider centaur is not one that stands out to me as a loose end or deliberate hint at something more. I could be wrong of course, but that angle isn't really vibing with me.

Yeah, with your explanation, I'm like half and half. I see your point and Deicide's point. Honestly, I'm fine with either!

rayleigh92

@starlalilymoon:

Yeah, that would make a lot of sense. And it would explain some things like how she covered up her breasts, etc. My memory is a bit bland, but have we seen any such hybrid forms in the past where it looked half human, half animal? I think currently Black Maria might be the only one? I'm still a little iffy on it, but it can work with how Black Maria has her illusion mist.

My theory is any Zoan user has more or less control degrees over the hybrid form, so while a lot of users prefers to keep the human mouth-mask (maybe for aesthetics or for properly speaking?), some prefers to turn it fully beast (or can't control as much as others). Some instead change only some parts as such as Marco's arms or Black Maria's legs, which turning spider actually means developing eight of them.

What most bugs me is still the secondary face over her lower body, which doesn't have any sense. I still wait for some "it's a devil fruit which ate a devil fruit" thing or the possibility Black Maria ate both a Fruit and a Smile (as much as we know Smile could easily don't fit in the one fruit limit).

starlalilymoon

@rayleigh92:

My theory is any Zoan user has more or less control degrees over the hybrid form, so while a lot of users prefers to keep the human mouth-mask (maybe for aesthetics or for properly speaking?), some prefers to turn it fully beast (or can't control as much as others). Some instead change only some parts as such as Marco's arms or Black Maria's legs, which turning spider actually means developing eight of them.

I actually really like this theory. Since since hybrid form would be different on people of various builds/sizes/gender/etc. So, it would make sense for me to subconsciously choose what is best for them.

What most bugs me is still the secondary face over her lower body, which doesn't have any sense. I still wait for some "it's a devil fruit which ate a devil fruit" thing or the possibility Black Maria ate both a Fruit and a Smile (as much as we know Smile could easily don't fit in the one fruit limit).

Yeah, it is really weird. Unless… it is a tattoo of a spider's face to deceive us all! :blink:

rayleigh92

This post is deleted!

Deicide

This post is deleted!

rayleigh92

@Deicide:

Don't talk spoilers outside the spoiler thread. Edit it, if the mods find out they'll give you a warning and edit your post. Or worse, if it happened before. Edit it before you get their attention.

I straightly deleted it. Better avoid any problem even editing it. :ninja: Thank you!

Devil Child 78

It might be too little too late, buy I still hope that Robin will somehow unlock busoshoku. And for her awakening, I think that her awakening might will be power absorption. It’s like how flowers absorb nutrients from soil. So Robin can recover herself faster, or even better; if she gets hurt, she will absorb enemies’ life force to heal herself.