Chapter 1,010: Color of the Supreme King

wolfwood

The only issue I have with that example(again, I know that Oda wasn't leaning to it like you said) is that Nami is not on the same level as Smoker in terms of combat. We don't want this dilemna of "how to beat broken powers" to go too far the other way where someone has a seemingly broken power but if you have their one weakness they become useless. I think Haki being able to hit logias is a good compromise. It still allows the likes of Crocodile to do cool shit like drain the water out of you. All the other shit haki can do, yeah it's a little messy in it's current state.

I guess that it could lean a little much into only has one natural weakness territory, but it blurring the lines on "levels" would be something i would count as a positive.

@King:

Haki doesn't mean instant win.

Remember when Logia Monet completely humiliated Tashigi?

Or when Caesar made Luffy breathless?

Or when Nami teamed up with Luffy to drench Cracker's biscuits?

It is an instant advantage tho. Outside of moments of suprise or an overwhelming power gap a non spirit magic guy will struggle against someone who has it. It tips the scale

Razh

@Jabra:

What would stop Oda from making Smoker vulnerable to super-fast punches? Because super fast punches would disperse smoke effectively, to the point that Smoker starts to feel the pain. It makes sense, just like hitting a wet Crocodile "makes sense".

Chiming in a little late, and I could have quoted any of number of comments about this subject.

Personally, always thought logia shouldn't have been granted ability to turn into their element on auto. That way a fast hit or a surprise hit (which actually did happen to Smoker as a comic relief) could connect without passing through. Also it would make it difficult to logia to attack and defend at the same time.

As for Haki, should have been left on minimum.

This game definitely needs rebalancing. :ninja:

Jabra

@fraggynator:

Question for the people complaining about the addition of haki:
Why do you think it would've been more satisfying to see every relevant fighter that has the chance of having to deal with a logia use seastone weapons? Because let's be real for a second, in a One Piece world where the only difference is that haki doesn't exist, this would be the logical solution.
If Haki wasn't a thing, why would any vice-admiral or higher not always carry a seastone weapon? Because "better to just risk it because that's smoker's thing and it would be boring if we all do it"?

I think it would be great if any Vice-Admiral and above would carry a Sea-Stone weapon, that they don't always irritated me. It's fine to play Sea Stone as this super rare material only the most influential people have access to (the Marines, Nations, the WG etc.), but Oda should have turned at least the Vice Admirals into Sea-Stone users like Smoker.
It doesn't make sense that they aren't after we've seen an entire Seastone-net squad in Impel Down and the numerous sea-stone coated Battleships. I would understand not equipping the fodder with sea stone gear, but the VAs would have been the perfect sweet spot (the Admirals don't need it, anything below VA doesn't deserve it).

But I guess turning them into effective Sea-stone warriors would have prevented them from being the One Piece equivalent of Yamcha, and of course we can't have that.

fraggynator

@Jabra:

I think it would be great if any Vice-Admiral and above would carry a Sea-Stone weapon, that they don't always irritated me. It's fine to play Sea Stone as this super rare material only the most influential people have access to (the Marines, Nations, the WG etc.), but Oda should have turned at least the Vice Admirals into Sea-Stone users like Smoker.
It doesn't make sense that they aren't after we've seen an entire Seastone-net squad in Impel Down and the numerous sea-stone coated Battleships. I would understand not equipping the fodder with sea stone gear, but the VAs would have been the perfect sweet spot (the Admirals don't need it, anything below VA doesn't deserve it).

But I guess turning them into effective Sea-stone warriors would have prevented them from being the One Piece equivalent of Yamcha, and of course we can't have that.

I agree that they probably should have them.
But what I don't see is how you could make it such an exclusive thing, given that they already use it so widely (ships, prison bullets, cages etc.). What's to stop any high-tier crew from scrapping a warship for the resources?
Plus, at the end of the day it just shifts the dynamic from "who has the stronger haki" to "who has better access to that shiny shit".

As for the VAs… idk... it wouldn't really help them against many of the stronger opponents seeing as a good chunk of them don't wield DFs in the first place. Though I'd really like them to be more than just bigger fodder in some way as well... seriously, would any emperor-level crew even sweat a buster call at this point?

Overall I just think that the "you can develop your personal ability" setting of haki is more fitting in every way than "if you have the massive resources and manpower of a government behind you, you're good" in the One Piece setting where the ultimate ideal of the protagonist is personal freedom.

Daz

Random Marine mooks had seastone nets as far back as loguetown, it could easily have been a more extensive road taken. For DF users, you could've made insulated seastone-clad gloves or something, theres plenty of possibilities

Cockycent

Sounds repetitive to keep spamming work arounds like Seastone and the elements. Haki is decent enough to mix along with the others.

Franky and Nami are the only ones left who don't use Haki or a DF ability. It's good for them to continue to win as much as they can before possibly unlocking Haki in the future.

Czechmate

Truly wild to see people identify Haki as the greatest source of post-TS combat disappointment/muddling/confusion when Law and Doffy's fruits exist.

I don't think I've ever viewed it as an inherently flawed system although I get the complaints about it more than I used to. If there were any common complaint I could give for post-TS fights, it's actually more about little details and transitions between moments that used to feel more fleshed out. I'm with the people here who think it's bizarre that Luffy was seemingly KOed again, just to appear with the lightbulb over his head – no panels, either here or anywhere else in Wano, where we actually see him put together the Conqueror coating stuff. The other similar moment that still sticks out like this (because I just loathed so much about Dressrosa) is Luffy getting speared by the awakened strings, then being marionetted out, and suddenly... Gear Fourth again!! With literally no transition! The Strings just popped off! No more Muscle Balloon? I guess?

At any rate, I think I'm fine with what's going on in these chapters conceptually, but the attention to detail and art quality are things I see varying more widely in One Piece these days. The foot-versus-kanabo thing is cool, but Luffy's two punches on Kaido look so flimsy compared to that first Pacifista Jet Pistol crush post-timeskip.

I'm still on board with all of this, and I'm very much an ends-justify-the-means person when it comes to narrative choices (if the Wano conclusion works well enough then I can look past a lot of these things)... but we'll see.

Alfiere

@King:

Pretty sure that's already the case. The room he created for his body double trick in Dressrosa was said to have cut his lifespan because of how big it had to be.

And he can't create multiple rooms. The anime shows him creating a Room whenever he does anything, so it's more like Oda can't really be bothered to draw the process all the time.

I looked it up because i wasn't sure i remembered it correctly, but in chapter 669 there's definetly a panel where a Room is active away from Law, and he and Chopper pop inside it in the following panel (and Chopper comments on the practicality of it). That implies that
1. Rooms can be created remotedly and/or remain active even with Law leaves them and
2. He either had to be inside another room to switch inside this one, or can apparently swap from outside a room, which is even worse in terms of broken abilities.

KageKageKing

@Sibersk:

Some of you guys must have the memories of goldfish if you're saying that Oda is just giving up on coming up with interesting Devil Fruit scenarios after Ch. 1,009.

As if Oda didn't introduced a handful of them ever since they entered the Grand Line.

Hell, look at Totland arc.

TLC

@Daz:

Random Marine mooks had seastone nets as far back as loguetown, it could easily have been a more extensive road taken. For DF users, you could've made insulated seastone-clad gloves or something, theres plenty of possibilities

Seastone is supposed to be rare and expensive. Only Marine officials have an abundant supply of them. Other than them, the only times I remember anyone having seastone is Crocodile, with all his connections, having a cage and Wiper having some in his dial boots (which never made any sense to me, where in the sky did he find Seastone?)

And more importantly, it would be boring and lame if the strongest pirates in the world couldn't do anything to a random Logia. Silvers Rayleigh needs to put on seastone gloves and boots to fight Kizaru (yeah tell me what light is weak too)? Or worse, Caribou? The scene when Pekoms totally pulverized Caribou and said how Logia who think they are invincible in the New World are not going to last long is there for a reason. The series is supposed to be driven by the strength and talent and will power of the individual determining a character's power and success not the random devil fruit they lucked out in eating. It's why Roger or Shanks never ate a devil fruit. To show it's not needed.

You're free to not like the other aspects of Haki (I personally don't have a problem with it) but the Logia thing was a big problem with the world that needed fixing.

Daz

I see your overall point, and like I said earlier in the thread, the ability to touch logias (and to a lesser extent punch Luffy) are the areas where Haki felt most "valid" to me - its more everything else (the coating-level contessts, the straight passive DF negation, the futurevision, it being a depletable resource= that will rub me the wrong way. But yeah, by the time Aokiji showed up, I could see Oda deciding "I need to develop a more standardized long-term way for dealing with these dudes", and fair enough. I just think it ended up expanding a bit too far from that.

King Cannon

@Alfiere:

I looked it up because i wasn't sure i remembered it correctly, but in chapter 669 there's definetly a panel where a Room is active away from Law, and he and Chopper pop inside it in the following panel (and Chopper comments on the practicality of it). That implies that
1. Rooms can be created remotedly and/or remain active even with Law leaves them and
2. He either had to be inside another room to switch inside this one, or can apparently swap from outside a room, which is even worse in terms of broken abilities.

In the anime, he creates one room at a time in order to teleport back to the lab (Room->Teleport->Room->Teleport Episode 595). He was inside the tube, created a room and then came down with Shambles.

Again, Oda can't be bothered to show everytime Law creates a room. Too much panel waste and he already tries to cram as much as he can.

Captain M

Hey, y'all remember the open-ended cross symbol that's shown up in a few interesting places like here:

down here:

as part of this:

and as an outlier on Mihawk's sword and personalised sound effects:

and makes for good speculation fodder?

While here it is again in the latest chapter, in Kid's pile of junk he picked up in the castle:

My theory has been for a while that this sign, the version seen in the first two images, represents either an early World Government or a predecessor to them, but has largely been scrubbed from history. Wano's been largely cut off from the outside world for a long, long time, but once had open borders. Could they have had contact with whoever previously used the symbol in pre-Void Century times, and out of reach of the World Government's purges, what evidence of it has survived? Was the bit in Kid's panel something Kaido intentionally worked into his castle, or was it already being stored on Onigashima and got caught up in the construction effort? And what was Onigashima's purpose before he settled there anyway?

Join me next week for more reading way too deep into things.

aku-chan

Why does the choice have to be between no Haki whatsoever or Haki dialled up to 11?

I don't think anybody minds Haki as it started out. A basic attack and defence buff, that allowed you to punch smug Logias in the face, which anyone with enough high level fighting experience could unlock, I doubt anyone even minds that there are different levels, someone using the stuff for years should be able to "Out-Haki" a newbie.
It's the new stuff, the 'I trained my ability to sense others and read their movements to the point where I can literally see the future' or 'Some people are born with super Haki that makes them even strongerer' that's starting to tick some people off.

Haki has it's place in the series, it even makes sense that it wasn't baked into the story from the start, as it's just not something a person would run into until they hit the big leagues, but it does feel like it's in danger of taking over.

andy

@aku-chan:

Why does the choice have to be between no Haki whatsoever or Haki dialled up to 11?

I don't think anybody minds Haki as it started out. A basic attack and defence buff, that allowed you to punch smug Logias in the face, which anyone with enough high level fighting experience could unlock, I doubt anyone even minds that there are different levels, someone using the stuff for years should be able to "Out-Haki" a newbie.
It's the new stuff, the 'I trained my ability to sense others and read their movements to the point where I can literally see the future' or 'Some people are born with super Haki that makes them even strongerer' that's starting to tick some people off.

Haki has it's place in the series, it even makes sense that it wasn't baked into the story from the start, as it's just not something a person would run into until they hit the big leagues, but it does feel like it's in danger of taking over.

Even with Haki it mostly used to help buff stuff but DF and people fighting style still play a bigger part .
With the series ending in the next few years don't really think it will matter .

desa

I hate the idea of Im immune to your power because I'm strong. You should have to work around it. It's fine for haki to let you punch logias. It sucks when it just make you immune to Law switching. The Ceasar/ Luffy fight was the sweet spot where it just let you interract with your opponent without taking away their abilities.

Kirbycide

I’m going to laugh when it turns out that sea stone is just a huge rock that was imbued with CoC back in the void century, like a blackened sword. And now people still harvest it for its DF-nullifying properties.

wolfwood

@Kirbycide:

I’m going to laugh when it turns out that sea stone is just a huge rock that was imbued with CoC back in the void century, like a blackened sword. And now people still harvest it for its DF-nullifying properties.

Rocks was literal. The conquering stone of the sea

Kirbycide

See? Wolfwood gets it.

Daz

Regarding the whole "Does Haki influence fights" discussion, I've been thinking of Doflamingo. Doffy is a string man, whos established main deal is doing puppeteering or razor-wire slashes with wires generated from his hands. I don't know that any of Luffys fight with him really involves countering that, specifically? Like, theres no grabbing hold of the strings to drag Doffy, no following them to find the real him or setting them on fire or targeting his hands or like a weakness where he leaves himself vulnerable if puppeteering too many things due to it using his hands.

I'm thinking stuff like "Arlong shoots at Luffy like a high-speed dart, but Luffy makes a finger-net to intercept him", which could now be countered with "Luffy uses CoA to block"

There is creativity on display in the Doffys fight with Luffys development of Gear 4, but…with gear 2 and 3, these were developed as specific counters to the speed and durability of CP9, which was strongly tied to their concept of highly trained martial-arts assasins. Whereas Gear 4s powerup of punching even harder is a counter to a string man, because in addition to being a string man Doffy is ALSO insanely durable, simply as a byproduct of the scaling of the haki concept.

Or in other words, couldn't you slot in Gear 4 as a "solution" to pretty much any high level opponent with CoA?

andre

@Daz:

Regarding the whole "Does Haki influence fights" discussion, I've been thinking of Doflamingo. Doffy is a string man, whos established main deal is doing puppeteering or razor-wire slashes with wires generated from his hands. I don't know that any of Luffys fight with him really involves countering that, specifically? Like, theres no grabbing hold of the strings to drag Doffy, no following them to find the real him or setting them on fire or targeting his hands or like a weakness where he leaves himself vulnerable if puppeteering too many things due to it using his hands.

I'm thinking stuff like "Arlong shoots at Luffy like a high-speed dart, but Luffy makes a finger-net to intercept him", which could now be countered with "Luffy uses CoA to block"

There is creativity on display in the Doffys fight with Luffys development of Gear 4, but…with gear 2 and 3, these were developed as specific counters to the speed and durability of CP9, which was strongly tied to their concept of highly trained martial-arts assasins. Whereas Gear 4s powerup of punching even harder is a counter to a string man, because in addition to being a string man Doffy is ALSO insanely durable, simply as a byproduct of the scaling of the haki concept.

Or in other words, couldn't you slot in Gear 4 as a "solution" to pretty much any high level opponent with CoA?

Go one fight further and see how Gear 4 was utilized.

uniaka ikuzakas

Talking about seastone, this is the country where seastone comes from and only place you have craftsmen that can make it into weapons, going as early as act 1 when hawkins uses seastone nails to stop law's powers and he was forced to run. The beast pirates don't use it at all to counter all the broken powers from luffy's team like law, kidd, luffy himself, scabbards, etc. Instead kaidou just complains that it's hard to deal with law's powers.

Like if we were finally introduced to the arc where seastone comes from, I would want to see warriors with seastone weapons about time after 25 years, and not just dumb people that have no clue how to deal with broken powers. Beast pirates are so dumb, they need someone to remind them to breathe.

andre

@uniaka:

Talking about seastone, this is the country where seastone comes from and only place you have craftsmen that can make it into weapons, going as early as act 1 when hawkins uses seastone nails to stop law's powers and he was forced to run. The beast pirates don't use it at all to counter all the broken powers from luffy's team like law, kidd, luffy himself, scabbards, etc. Instead kaidou just complains that it's hard to deal with law's powers.

Like if we were finally introduced to the arc where seastone comes from, I would want to see warriors with seastone weapons about time after 25 years, and not just dumb people that have no clue how to deal with broken powers. Beast pirates are so dumb, they need someone to remind them to breathe.

Does it seem within Kaido's character to want to use Seastone on them? I don't think it does. Maybe they use it against the rest of the pirate coalition, but very few of them actually have a devil fruit.

Sibersk Esto

@Daz:

Regarding the whole "Does Haki influence fights" discussion, I've been thinking of Doflamingo. Doffy is a string man, whos established main deal is doing puppeteering or razor-wire slashes with wires generated from his hands. I don't know that any of Luffys fight with him really involves countering that, specifically? Like, theres no grabbing hold of the strings to drag Doffy, no following them to find the real him or setting them on fire or targeting his hands or like a weakness where he leaves himself vulnerable if puppeteering too many things due to it using his hands.

I'm thinking stuff like "Arlong shoots at Luffy like a high-speed dart, but Luffy makes a finger-net to intercept him", which could now be countered with "Luffy uses CoA to block"

There is creativity on display in the Doffys fight with Luffys development of Gear 4, but…with gear 2 and 3, these were developed as specific counters to the speed and durability of CP9, which was strongly tied to their concept of highly trained martial-arts assasins. Whereas Gear 4s powerup of punching even harder is a counter to a string man, because in addition to being a string man Doffy is ALSO insanely durable, simply as a byproduct of the scaling of the haki concept.

Or in other words, couldn't you slot in Gear 4 as a "solution" to pretty much any high level opponent with CoA?

I don't think there's ever been that level of exploiting possible Devil Fruit workarounds in the series, pre or post haki. People weren't trying to superheat Crocodile to turn him into glass, or set up ground rods for Enel. The water weakness or rubber vulnerability were just for establishing why Luffy could eventually punch the bad guy really hard. Most of the fights in the series have come down to speed and durability, at least Gear 4th utilizes the fact that Luffy is made of rubber.

@desa:

I hate the idea of Im immune to your power because I'm strong. You should have to work around it. It's fine for haki to let you punch logias. It sucks when it just make you immune to Law switching. The Ceasar/ Luffy fight was the sweet spot where it just let you interract with your opponent without taking away their abilities.

Bad guys don't "work around" abilities, good guys do. The immunity to Law's fruit is an explanation for why Oda can't write the most straightforward (aka most boring) avenue for his fights. It's how we got the Law/Kidd tag team instead.

andy

@Sibersk:

I don't think there's ever been that level of exploiting possible Devil Fruit workarounds in the series, pre or post haki. People weren't trying to superheat Crocodile to turn him into glass, or set up ground rods for Enel. The water weakness or rubber vulnerability were just for establishing why Luffy could eventually punch the bad guy really hard. Most of the fights in the series have come down to speed and durability, at least Gear 4th utilizes the fact that Luffy is made of rubber.

Yep gear 4 also add the mobility aspect that comes down to speed , power and durability we normal see to what deicide fights .
But exploiting possible Devil Fruit workarounds as you said was never a huge aspect in the series.

Cockycent

After what Jack did to the Mink tribe, I thought this would be filled with more of the underhanded devices. Arc is not over, so there's still room for it. Queen has been the one to pull it off mostly. Kaido didn't exactly approve of Higurashi's move against Oden, but he went along because pirates. I don't see Kaido pulling a Kata and making things even if someone was to interfere like Higurashi did.

Since Kaido showed that he admired how WB went out, i've seen a Zephyr like ending for him. Defeated by Luffy in some way, then gets jumped by WG or Teach. That would make things even in a sense if Kaido didn't Kata himself during the battle, but took on an extra group that had the nerve to intrude. I wonder if that is possibly what Cipher Pol is up to.

If Zoro doesn't get up before all the Disasters and Beast Pirates are done off, maybe he is ready when everyone of the allies and his crew are tired. Oda can use him to fend off whoever tries to take advantage of that. First mate/VC duty to look over them anyway

Joy Boy

What I dislike about this chapter the most is how Oda lied about this fight. He said that Kaido can't lose just because Luffy's punch is strong so he has to find a solution yet he's doing exactly that in this chapter. Luffy will win because his punch got to be strong enough.

thegab

@Joy:

What I dislike about this chapter the most is how Oda lied about this fight. He said that Kaido can't lose just because Luffy's punch is strong so he has to find a solution yet he's doing exactly that in this chapter. Luffy will win because his punch got to be strong enough.

If the fight ended here, I would agree w you but it's clearly not over. So we shall see.

All Fiction

Joy Boy

@All:

https://i.imgur.com/0V6Oo2F.png

Meanwhile Luffy wipes him off the map like nothing. The guy who brought terror to Doflamingo, the WSC is getting his shit pushed in by Luffy because of the strong punches Oda said won't work.

Zhenja

@Joy:

What I dislike the most is Oda

What you really wanted to say… :ninja:

Joy Boy

@Zhenja:

What you really wanted to say… :ninja:

Him not being true to his words is not my fault. Him literally reducing any tension this series can have to zero is not my fault.

I get banned from the spoiler section because I criticize the series and members who always attack me are not having any problems.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@thegab:

If the fight ended here, I would agree w you but it's clearly not over. So we shall see.

Fight is basically over.

Oda will swift focus so he can end the other fights and by the time he comes back to Kaido and Luffy, it will be the ending of the arc where Luffy will beat Kaido cleanly because that's just how Oda writes this series now. Kaido will be beating Luffy ? No problem, G4 with Haoshoku will wreck hybrid's form shit in. Kaido shows awakening ? No problem, G5 will appear and obliterate Kaido.

There is no turning back now. Oda already killed this fight with this horrific showing. Kaido is beaten.

Zhenja

@Joy:

Him not being true to his words is not my fault. Him literally reducing any tension this series can have to zero is not my fault.

It's never your fault, it's always someone else faults…

Joy Boy

@Zhenja:

It's never your fault, it's always someone else faults…

I'm not the one who said that Luffy beating Kaido by simply punching strongly enough is wrong. Oda did. So yes, it's not my fault.

FatDogForMidTerms

When you think about it, Kaido was already beaten when Oda first sketched him lol

All Fiction

@Joy:

Luffy will win because his punch got to be strong enough.

If he doesn't, will you own up to it or will you pull a JohnTnaig and silently leave the forum never to be seen again?

juiceduphody3315

In time it will show what Luffy doing now is not necessarily meaning he is going to win this fight. Kaidou is the strongest creature and this can be Oda building up to showing us why. Kaidou has been defeated and captured multiple times but can't be killed. Kaidou can probably take a large amount of damage. Everything that the alliance is doing may seem now like ot of damage but Oda can easily flip the script. Kaidou taking large amounts of punishment and still not going down. Even with Luffy figuring out how to use his haki better does not mean it will still be enough yet to put Kaidou down. I can see Luffy wrecking Kadiou to exhaustion and Kaidou showing us what a monster he truly is. I'm sure Kaidou in the past has fought multiple opponents that could do similar damage, cutting him is a huge feat yes but non stop beat downs I'm sure he has endured in the past. Kaidou also was having fun with the alliance so this might change his attitude towards the fight and get serious.

FatDogForMidTerms

@Joy:

I'm not the one who said that Luffy beating Kaido by simply punching strongly enough is wrong. Oda did. So yes, it's not my fault.

I think the reason why people find you funny/write you off so easily is your weirdly bitter tone, you know? You sound like a stereotypical entitled fan.

So, and I'm trying to be helpful here, try to work on that so folks could maybe have a genuine discussion with you!

Edit: try to remember that for many people here, OP is their favorite piece of entertaiment! So when you bash its creator because something doesn't happen the way you think it should happen, many people don't want to engage with you

andy

@All:

If he doesn't, will you own up to it or will you pull a JohnTnaig and silently leave the forum never to be seen again?

He been wrong since the Kaido fight started and it will just keep going lol.
You would think he would stop overacting because how much times this has happen before.

EDIT also if we having fun it's not because luffy punch that get stronger it's because of haki lol.

Zhenja

@All:

If he doesn't, will you own up to it or will you pull a JohnTnaig and silently leave the forum never to be seen again?

Neither, he was so often wrong in the past he even admitted being wrong some time, but that didn't change anything, same old Joy Boy. Always rant never change.

Joy Boy

@All:

If he doesn't, will you own up to it or will you pull a JohnTnaig and silently leave the forum never to be seen again?

I've already owned up to the fight with the scabbards. I'm not a guy who's just silently leaves because I was wrong.

But you're just dreaming if you think he doesn't. He literally got this power up just for that. Luffy will beat Kaido in a 1on1 fight, he declared so.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@juiceduphody3315:

In time it will show what Luffy doing now is not necessarily meaning he is going to win this fight. Kaidou is the strongest creature and this can be Oda building up to showing us why. Kaidou has been defeated and captured multiple times but can't be killed. Kaidou can probably take a large amount of damage. Everything that the alliance is doing may seem now like ot of damage but Oda can easily flip the script. Kaidou taking large amounts of punishment and still not going down. Even with Luffy figuring out how to use his haki better does not mean it will still be enough yet to put Kaidou down. I can see Luffy wrecking Kadiou to exhaustion and Kaidou showing us what a monster he truly is. I'm sure Kaidou in the past has fought multiple opponents that could do similar damage, cutting him is a huge feat yes but non stop beat downs I'm sure he has endured in the past. Kaidou also was having fun with the alliance so this might change his attitude towards the fight and get serious.

Kaido didn't have any fun. He was constantly getting beaten in dragon form and resorted to his best form. He only beat Zoro because Zoro was exhausted, Law is still fine after Bagua and Luffy literally ignored his ragnarok attack like it was nothing. No way Luffy was unconscious after that. Kaido was just tripping. If Kid and Killer were around, he wouldn't even be able to put Zoro down.

All Fiction

@Joy:

I've already owned up to the fight with the scabbards.

Yet you seem to have learned nothing from it. You clearly didn't come to think "Maybe I should never jump to conclusions ever again" after that. It's a cycle at this point.

Kaidou takes a hit -> You: "THIS SUCKS! NO TENSION!" -> Kaidou makes a comeback -> You: "Looks like I was wrong" -> Kaidou takes a hit -> You: "THIS SUCKS! NO TENSION!"

Rinse and repeat.

Zhenja

@Joy:

Luffy will beat Kaido in a 1on1 fight, he declared so.

andy

@Joy:

I've already owned up to the fight with the scabbards. I'm not a guy who's just silently leaves because I was wrong.

But you're just dreaming if you think he doesn't. He literally got this power up just for that. Luffy will beat Kaido in a 1on1 fight, he declared so.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

Kaido didn't have any fun. He was constantly getting beaten in dragon form and resorted to his best form. He only beat Zoro because Zoro was exhausted, Law is still fine after Bagua and Luffy literally ignored his ragnarok attack like it was nothing. No way Luffy was unconscious after that. Kaido was just tripping. If Kid and Killer were around, he wouldn't even be able to put Zoro down.

He beat Zoro cause he was half dead from his attack with BM and then used all his power in a attack that did not even slow him down .
Law is not find after his attack he on the ground half dead .( Oda forgetting to draw blood don't mean he find )
If kidd and killer were there what would have they done to stop someone they could do nothing to since the fight start .

EDIT like seriously the person that could teleport people was to slow to stop Zoro or there self from getting hurt and kidd and killer was going to stop him how ?

Joy Boy

@All:

Yet you seem to have learned nothing from it. You clearly didn't come to think "Maybe I should never jump to conclusions ever again" after that. It's a cycle at this point.

Kaidou takes a hit -> You: "THIS SUCKS! NO TENSION!" -> Kaidou makes a comeback -> You: "Looks like I was wrong" -> Kaidou takes a hit -> You: "THIS SUCKS! NO TENSION!"

Rinse and repeat.

I literally said how this fight will go. Whatever answer Kaido has, Luffy will just get back at him. Oda simply made Luffy the strongest in the series.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@andy:

He beat Zoro cause he was half dead from his attack with BM and then used all his power in a attack that did not even slow him down .
Law is not find after his attack he on the ground half dead .( Oda forgetting to draw blood don't mean he find )
If kidd and killer were there what would have they done to stop someone they could do nothing to since the fight start .

EDIT like seriously the person that could teleport people was to slow to stop Zoro or there self from getting hurt and kidd and killer was going to stop him how ?

Kaido got a scar from Zoro so yes it did a lot of damage to him. Law is fine, he will get back up. Kid and Killer could hold Kaido back from attacking Zoro.

Kaido is right now weaker than Luffy. the five of them would be overkill so Oda just nerfed them because Kaido would get stomped.

All Fiction

@Joy:

I literally said how this fight will go.

So you overconfidently jumped to conclusion again. Just like last time. And thus, the cycle begins anew.

Joy Boy

@All:

So you overconfidently jumped to conclusion again. Just like last time. And thus, the cycle begins anew.

Why are you so confident Luffy won't beat Kaido in a 1v1 lol ?

thegab

@Joy:

Why are you so confident Luffy won't beat Kaido in a 1v1 lol ?

This isn't a 1 v 1 fight after one side had what? 13 fighters? Obviously luffy will finish it, but it's so clearly not 1v1

All Fiction

@Joy:

Why are you so confident Luffy won't beat Kaido in a 1v1 lol ?

1. Momonosuke (and probably Marco and Inuarashi) needs to be there.
2. It was already not a 1v1 because Luffy needed help from 4 other Supernovas beforehand.

Zhenja

@Joy:

yes it did a lot of damage to him..

Yeah, you can clearly see how slow his Thunder Bagua became after Zoro wounded him. Kaido can barely move.
Big Mom has to save him asap…