Only other places I'd move are Scotland or Japan.
Aye Scotland might be a choice, the con is that is too close (literally) to Terf Island.
Only other places I'd move are Scotland or Japan.
Aye Scotland might be a choice, the con is that is too close (literally) to Terf Island.
I mean, Canada seems the obvious choice. English-speaking, still in North America, but without nearly as much shit as we have. Yes, they have their own problems, but so does every country.
My dad sincerely told me I should move to Scandinavia, and hey, if I could speak one of their languages and get a job there, I might have. Only other places I'd move are Scotland or Japan.
For all our collective weebiness, Japan seems an poor choice assuming the goal is, in part, to get away from high Right conservatism.
Yeaaaah, if you want to escape conservatism get as far as you can from Japan, well unless you're actually foreign born japanese - well not that it worked that well for the dekasegis but alas.
For all our collective weebiness, Japan seems an poor choice assuming the goal is, in part, to get away from high Leven conservatism.
You can't escape conservatism, but I would move there not for the politics, but the culture. Japan is a mostly quiet country with almost no guns (legal ones, anyway), and their major religions are Shintoism and Buddhism, not the crazy-ass Christianity we have here. I am also semi-fluent and have actually lived there, so I'd be a step ahead. As long as I stayed far away from Tokyo, I'd be okay.
But like I said before, it wouldn't be my first choice.
I've done this "thought experiment" many-a times seeing how frightening the future for the US is. Canada is my first choice by a long shot. As has been stated, it is English speaking, and would be the least of a culture shock. Also, very importantly to me, it's climate is colder instead of hotter. Ideally I'd be in the Southeast section bordering New England, because I think that New England has the ideal climate. However, I'm not very familiar with Canadian politics, and I know that SE Canada is more of the French speaking portion and thus it might be a bigger cultural shock for me than other areas of the country, IDK.
Unfortunately, I've heard that Canada is a tough country to get into. Otherwise I'd probably…just go ahead and do it. lol. But where I'm standing, getting to a better state is difficult as it is, much less a better country. =/
Other options? IDK, I'd have to research that better. I'd like to think of the Scandinavian countries, but they'd be a culture shock and I'd have to become fluent in languages I have never learned.
I used to think of England, but it's TERF island, and as we all know, anti-trans policies eventually effect the rest of us, as their true ultimate goal is taking away all LGBT rights, not just trans rights
I'm not so willing to abandon the United States. The more liberals who leave, the worse it will be here. We need to fight when things are difficult, not give up and run away.
@The:
I'm not so willing to abandon the United States. The more liberals who leave, the worse it will be here. We need to fight when things are difficult, not give up and run away.
That's the logic I hear from a lot when I say I plan to move from Oklahoma. I find it kinda frustrating. While I would love to make this place better, life is only so long and I need to find a place that I will have freedom, rights and be happy.
IRL I'm pretty reserved. I'm not the "fighting" type, I'm the kind that just wants to live in peace and quiet. I'm sorry if that comes off as selfish, and perhaps it is. But there is what I said before, but also I recognize a lost cause when I see it. Oklahoma in particular is a lost cause. I don't know about the US, but when I see all of the Republican cheating (voter suppression, electoral college, what happened in the Supreme Court under Trump, etc.) and nothing there to stop them it sure feels like it.
Other options? IDK, I'd have to research that better. I'd like to think of the Scandinavian countries, but they'd be a culture shock and I'd have to become fluent in languages I have never learned.
I used to think of England, but it's TERF island, and as we all know, anti-trans policies eventually effect the rest of us, as their true ultimate goal is taking away all LGBT rights, not just trans rights
COME.TO.BRASIL.BEFORE.BRAZIL.COMES.TO.YOU.
clocks glock
that's a threat.
@The:
I'm not so willing to abandon the United States. The more liberals who leave, the worse it will be here. We need to fight when things are difficult, not give up and run away.
What's your 10 step plan then, buddy? Vote harder?
What's your 10 step plan then, buddy? Vote harder?
I think Gil Scott-Heron said the revolution will not be televised. So start by that, and add the social media factor. Go full:
I'm a political bandit
And you don't understand it
You took my dream and canned it
It is not the way I planned itI'm society's destructor
I'm a petrol bomb constructor
I'm the people's debt collector
I'm a cosmic light conductor
I'm pretty content to stick around where I am. The upper midwest, border town between ND and MN, living on the MN side. The ND side may be pretty annoyingly Red, but the MN big cities will always keep us Blue. And for the most part, all my life here has made me feel people care more about minding their own business and complaining about why we still have winter storms in mid-april or enjoying constant lake weekend plans in the few months of summer. People like to mutter comments here and there or say stuff behind people's backs, but it doesn't usually escalate to making a huge giant ass of yourself.
What's your 10 step plan then, buddy? Vote harder?
Maybe start voting for actual progressives? Instead of center-left dinosaurs, buddy.
That is the major reason not to leave. Not to leave this country to the fascists and assholes. I'm probably in one of the best sections of the country right now (Northeast), so I'll be okay. But it's good to have a backup plan.
@The:
Maybe start voting for actual progressives? Instead of center-left dinosaurs, buddy.
That’s a somewhat nice idea damn sure ain’t going to mean much if you live in a solidly red state.
That’s a somewhat nice idea damn sure ain’t going to mean much if you live in a solidly red state.
Or a solidly blue state! The dems are not a left wing party.
@The:
Maybe start voting for actual progressives? Instead of center-left dinosaurs, buddy.
I mean, I've been doing this, and canvassing for the Bernies of the world, and fundraising and donating and more grassroots activity. Let me know if you have more Electoralism Points somewhere so I can get that Electoralism Gold Star, but in the mean time I'm burnt out on the process. It's not working.
Or a solidly blue state! The dems are not a left wing party.
We elected AOC so it’s not out of the realm of possibility.
Also to Dianne Feinstein.
You’re too old, let go, it’s over
https://www.yahoo.com/news/feinstein-defends-herself-amid-questions-223549349.html
Ugh. Feinstein's a total dinosaur. I wish her pride would have let her retire in 2012 or 2018 instead of stubbornly staying in office, so we could actually appreciate her legacy instead of resenting her.
You guys know conservatives don't just magically assume power…right? If more people vote for progressives or even democrats, then conservatives don't get elected. But if you just decide "It's not working"(it is, that's how Biden won 2020) then nothing will ever change. Just because it doesn't seem to be working now, doesn't mean it doesn't work. Change and progress are slow. Sometimes they stumble, but we have to be there to pick them up and put them back on track. It's easy to fight when things are going your way. It's when things are dark and difficult that fighting matters. Don't give up. Together we can do this. I believe in you. I believe in us.
Part of why progressives lose and never gain ground is half the reason is they give up and the other half they are kind of dumb.
Like complaining about old politicians is dumb. Most of all when you support Bernie. The oldest man ever. If you want to gain more election points, ask why do these folks fail at elections?
They win in solid blue districts or states. This is pretty much a no brainer. So that's a start but why did someone like Nina Turner lose in that special election in Ohio? Well she pissed off the Democrats, the black folks and Jews a lot with her horrible backstabbing ways and just in general is no team player. This is not the progressive you want to join the backbenchers known as the Squad. Now the map might be better for her this year but still she is very dumb so she might lose to unseat…. a Dem again.
Or why run in West Virginia as a progressives who thinks ketchup packets are something only the elite of the elite have access to? This is dumb and far worse than Manchin. lol
Then you got something somewhat better with Fetterman in the PA senate race. He is doing so well because he is the pretty well known LG and avoids debates that have smarter progressives like Kenyatta and moderates/more electables like Lamb point out he sucks and is pretty racist. But he is smart to avoid that noise while he is so far ahead. Will he be able to beat Dr. Oz in the general though? Time will tell.
But yeah giving up is not the answer. Rethinking strategy, letting go of toxic losers like Bernie, Corbyn, Turner and whoever else is awful at progressive politics in Liberal Democracies after they lose will go a long way. And yeah not every victory will be good and force good things right away.
I think people forget, The Squad won during the Trump years. Was a big deal to have women of color win during those years. That was more important than their vague ideologies that they have. Maybe think on that a bit too? I think it goes a long way to helping progressives figure out how to win. Every state, district and country is not the same race and needs a special nom to be able to win but there are those general "vibes" that are important too.
Same way regardless of what you think of her, it's nice that little girls can look up to Vice-President Harris. It's important. At least fight for what's good and important. It's not easy but it would not be right or good if it was.
@The:
You guys know conservatives don't just magically assume power…right? If more people vote for progressives or even democrats, then conservatives don't get elected. But if you just decide "It's not working"(it is, that's how Biden won 2020) then nothing will ever change. Just because it doesn't seem to be working now, doesn't mean it doesn't work. Change and progress are slow. Sometimes they stumble, but we have to be there to pick them up and put them back on track. It's easy to fight when things are going your way. It's when things are dark and difficult that fighting matters. Don't give up. Together we can do this. I believe in you. I believe in us.
I always vote, but my local votes are drowned out by an insurmountable Republican base, and my Presidential election votes are voided by the electoral college.
I've always done my part, and then watched the Republicans win anyway and take away my rights. I'm sick and tired of it. Right now I do not plan to leave the US, but if I see things going south and have an opportunity to move to a better country, I will seriously consider it. But my goal right now is to move to a blue state, and I only hope that it's not too late when I am able, because I know Republican-led states are trying to sneak in provisions into these rancid bills that punish people even if they have left the state.
I guess a living wage, universal healthcare, higher taxes on the ultra wealthy, stable infrastructure, forgiving student loan debt, decriminalization of marijuana, voting rights, trans rights, and gay rights aren't "good and important" lol. Those are what progressives are fighting for. Not good enough for democrats I guess…
I'm not be the person to say I told you so, so I'll let Demon Rin do it.
https://www.metroweekly.com/2022/04/republican-candidate-for-congress-says-civil-rights-laws-dont-apply-to-gay-people/
You thought you were exempt from Florida’s stupidity Math lovers?
@The:
I guess a living wage, universal healthcare, higher taxes on the ultra wealthy, stable infrastructure, forgiving student loan debt, decriminalization of marijuana, voting rights, trans rights, and gay rights aren't "good and important" lol. Those are what progressives are fighting for. Not good enough for democrats I guess…
Progressives need to back off from bad faith too.
At least you didn't say clean energy giving how Omar voted on the Russian oil ban. lol
We elected AOC so it’s not out of the realm of possibility.
Also to Dianne Feinstein.
You’re too old, let go, it’s over
https://www.yahoo.com/news/feinstein-defends-herself-amid-questions-223549349.html
AOC is not pro union in any meaningful way, and is not pro lefty stances in any meaningful way. If she ever was, it's not the case anymore. Case in point for electoral within-the-system shit fundamentally not working.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Ugh. Feinstein's a total dinosaur. I wish her pride would have let her retire in 2012 or 2018 instead of stubbornly staying in office, so we could actually appreciate her legacy instead of resenting her.
Yeah, like RBG staying in office after her doctors told her she'd be dead soon so that ThE FirST WomAN PreSiDeNt could appoint her successor. Hubris, all around. Our healthcare, our lives, our futures, at the whims of some horrific symbol obsessed gerontocracy. Loathsome.
AOC is not pro union in any meaningful way, and is not pro lefty stances in any meaningful way. If she ever was, it's not the case anymore. Case in point for electoral within-the-system shit fundamentally not working.
She has “problems” yes but she’s still a progressive. We can only move the goalposts so far.
@Dorobō:
Progressives need to back off from bad faith too.
At least you didn't say clean energy giving how Omar voted on the Russian oil ban. lol
Lol, calling democrats out on their shittiness is bad faith I guess. Hey, why didn't democrats use their "majority" in congress to pass any of the things I mentioned? Last time I checked, it wasn't the independents holding progressive legislation hostage…
Yeah, like RBG staying in office after her doctors told her she'd be dead soon so that ThE FirST WomAN PreSiDeNt could appoint her successor. Hubris, all around. Our healthcare, our lives, our futures, at the whims of some horrific symbol obsessed gerontocracy. Loathsome.
Frankly Feinstein's position is less defensible but with admittedly smaller consequences. RBG probably should have retired early in Obama's second term; once Scalia died and it became clear Mitch McConnell was going to block any new appointments, she was stuck attempting to persevere. She nearly made it, too.
Meanwhile, there are literally no important distinctions to when Feinstein retires. Democrats might temporarily lose their majority for a week at most until the Democratic governor of California appointed a new one and then California elects another Democrat to the Senate. It's only her pride on the line. Oh, and of course the degree to which having a functional and technologically literate Senator matters for the five committees she's on, including the Intelligence committee.
Can someone who's in favor of progressive dems and voteocracy give me like, a projected series of events that leads to healthcare, debt forgiveness, tax reevaluation (income, inheritance, cap gains, etc), education reform, or anything else?
Like, we all vote BernieBot 2028 and his resurrected robosocialist self implements Fullcomunism… except we have 70% of the country that's opposed to the name of his ideals, and 40+% that will literally die, literally die murdering others to stop it from happening...
I don't see it. If you have a path forward, let me know, but I'm beyond disillusioned. I'm outtie.
Can someone who's in favor of progressive dems and voteocracy give me like, a projected series of events that leads to healthcare, debt forgiveness, tax reevaluation (income, inheritance, cap gains, etc), education reform, or anything else?
Like, we all vote BernieBot 2028 and his resurrected robosocialist self implements Fullcomunism… except we have 70% of the country that's opposed to the name of his ideals, and 40+% that will literally die, literally die murdering others to stop it from happening...
I don't see it. If you have a path forward, let me know, but I'm beyond disillusioned. I'm outtie.
Dems supposedly have full control of the house, senate, and presidency. If they wanted those things, we could've had them. Like I said, it's not independents holding progressive legislation hostage. It's two democrats. "But but manchin is in a red state so he needs to oppose progressive legislation to keep his seat!" then what fucking good is him having the seat if he's not going to fucking play ball? Either democrats can't sell good ideas to their constituents, or they don't want to. I may not be the nicest guy in the thread, but I'm the one who believes we can do better as a country rather than settling for worthless mediocrity. So much potential to do good is being wasted because the average american voter is being scared by buzz words. It's fucking infuriating.
Hahaha no Manchin isn’t opposing the democrat’s agenda because he fears his constituents who he’s regularly been fucking over will turn heel on him.
It’s been established for quite some time his opposition is because of money and good old fashioned selfishness. Sinema has the same problem except there’s a chance her ratfuckery will cost her, her seat when she comes up for re-election.
Can someone who's in favor of progressive dems and voteocracy give me like, a projected series of events that leads to healthcare, debt forgiveness, tax reevaluation (income, inheritance, cap gains, etc), education reform, or anything else?
Like, we all vote BernieBot 2028 and his resurrected robosocialist self implements Fullcomunism… except we have 70% of the country that's opposed to the name of his ideals, and 40+% that will literally die, literally die murdering others to stop it from happening...
I don't see it. If you have a path forward, let me know, but I'm beyond disillusioned. I'm outtie.
I swear, Bernie is really annoying when it comes to him announcing his campaign only to back off. If he does one in 2024, someone better tase him.
@joekido:
I swear, Bernie is really annoying when it comes to him announcing his campaign only to back off. If he does one in 2024, someone better tase him.
That legitimately might kill him.
Bernie, you're like everyone's liberal grandpa. Just stay home and rest so you don't hurt yourself.
Bernie, you're like everyone's liberal grandpa. Just stay home and rest so you don't hurt yourself.
Agreed. His time is done. He's been too old for at least three election cycles now. We need real new blood to be the face of the progressive movement in the United States.
But he needs to also stick around to be our inspiration. He could give plenty of talks.
But he needs to also stick around to be our inspiration. He could give plenty of talks.
Like the wise old mentor who gives advice to the new generation. His strengths are his ideals and wisdom, not his electability.
He's The Giver, basically. Now he just needs a new Giver.
Manchin is a literal coal baron (not) voting on an environmental bill. He's not going to play ball on that unless someone offers him a back room deal of hundreds of millions.
Of course once midterms hit and they lose one or two seats and become the minority again, he loses all power he has right now as "the holdout dem" so he really should cash those chips while he can. He's got 4 or 5 months to play ball. Really be worthless in 2024 when Dems lose the presidency.
Cause I'm sorry, Biden is not going to get a second term if he keeps this up. "Not Trump" and "the safest bet against Trump" was enough to get him elected, and it was the only thing that got him elected. (And Trump still got the second highest vote count in history.) He wasn't most people's first choice.
Now he needs to actually deliver on some things.
Like… He could forgive student loans. Today.
Doesn't even need a congress vote. He's already had them delayed for six months, and then another six months, and another six months... He had a memo ready to go a year ago about if he could do it and never released it, I wonder why....
Dems biggest failing has always been being dogshit at selling their policies to the average american voter. Now granted, the average american voter is dumb as hell, and what democrats want for the country isn't great, but it's 100000x better than the republican "christian theocratic white supremacist corporatocracy america". Just do whatever it takes to sell the bare minimum you're promoting, democrats! Do debates, do town halls, make a god damn facebook post, just sell your ideals like you actually fucking care about them for once!
This is why I miss Obama. He actually tried to get his shit done.
This is why I miss Obama. He actually tried to get his shit done.
He brought a certain dignity back to the office after dubya. Which was promptly lost again with his successor…
Also, fox news can eat my entire ass, I think the tan suit looked good on him.
Is it going to be served with French fried taters?
Cause I wasn’t too big on the tan suit either:ninja:
But the nontroversy was indeed stupid try to imagine if he would’ve worn a burgundy or chartreuse suit.
Is it going to be served with French fried taters?
Cause I wasn’t too big on the tan suit either:ninja:
But the nontroversy was indeed stupid try to imagine if he would’ve worn a burgundy or chartreuse suit.
I long for the days when an unorthodox colored suit or a half hearted salute were the biggest presidential controversies…
You forgot not wearing a American flag lapel to publicly show you acknowledge the events of 9/11 years after the fact.
Biden can't bail out student loans. Like this is a known thing. If he could? He would have. But SCOTUS will knock it out. Since it's congress' job to do it. Which they won't do since it polls poorly.
Hell the polling points out bailout or no bailout, won't change how people vote in 2022 or 2024. So why force a bailout that will get a 6-3 rejection? You all know Biden will get the blame when it gets rejected right?
The smart thing is to just keep pausing it forever atm.
A student loan bailout is not going to be what makes or breaks Biden's reelection chances. It's the bottom of the barrel in terms of issues.
@The:
He brought a certain dignity back to the office after dubya. Which was promptly lost again with his successor…
Also, fox news can eat my entire ass, I think the tan suit looked good on him.
Biden's doing his best to stay dignified too. And in the face of all that's around him, he's doing pretty well. He can actually talk with other world leaders and not look like a dick. But dignity sadly only goes so far.
And seriously, who the fuck cares about a suit color as long as it's not FUCKING NEON PINK?
Biden's doing his best to stay dignified too. And in the face of all that's around him, he's doing pretty well. He can actually talk with other world leaders and not look like a dick. But dignity sadly only goes so far.
And seriously, who the fuck cares about a suit color as long as it's not FUCKING NEON PINK?
Definitely. The best thing about Biden is how fucking boring he is. I love not hearing about presidential meltdowns on twitter every other day. Sometimes he has some cringy gaffs, but he's old so whatever. He is for the most part a functioning adult.
@Dorobō:
Biden can't bail out student loans. Like this is a known thing. If he could? He would have. But SCOTUS will knock it out. Since it's congress' job to do it. Which they won't do since it polls poorly.
Hell the polling points out bailout or no bailout, won't change how people vote in 2022 or 2024. So why force a bailout that will get a 6-3 rejection? You all know Biden will get the blame when it gets rejected right?
The smart thing is to just keep pausing it forever atm.
A student loan bailout is not going to be what makes or breaks Biden's reelection chances. It's the bottom of the barrel in terms of issues.
Aren't student loan repayments to start back up in just a small number of weeks?