1001 is way better than 1000, this chapter should have been anticipated…
Chapter 1,001: Battle of Monsters on Onigashima
-
-
As for Kaido, I'm surprised he didn't list Big Mom and Garp as fighters who could challenge him. Has Kaido never seriously fought with Linlin or Garp before? If so, given that Rocks is listed, Kaido must have fought him before at one point before joining his crew. I like how all the characters in that panel are smiling save Shanks who is the only one currently still alive.
Kaido didn't have Linlin in mind because he backs himself against her and firmly believes he can win that fight. It's the entire basis of their analysis when you think about it.
Garp isn't a pirate and is simply too old right now to pose a threat to Kaido. The list of Pirates he conjured up seems to be comprised of pirates who have seriously threatened him and are either in their prime or have left a very big impression on him when they were alive.
-
Kaido didn't have Linlin in mind because he backs himself against her and firmly believes he can win that fight. It's the entire basis of their analysis when you think about it.
Garp isn't a pirate and is simply too old right now to pose a threat to Kaido. The list of Pirates he conjured up seems to be comprised of pirates who have seriously threatened him and are either in their prime or have left a very big impression on him when they were alive.
That´s not it, dude imagined 4 dead guys.
-
You can't justify Garp's absense because he's too old to pose a threat anymore and then accept that four dead people are in the list. By any account, Kaido is either undervaluing Garp's strength or he's only considering pirates, which is not clear.
The list may be composed of people that factually threatened Kaido before, which explains Shanks, but legends like Roger and Rocks are from a previous generation, so obviously Kaido was no match for them at the time, so why their inclusion? Alternatively, Kaido could be comparing his current strength against anyone from anytime considering he witnessed from Roger and Rocks' might, but if it's a list of "people with the potential to defeat him", then he should be also including marines like Garp, honestly.
Another way to look at it is that the list consists of people who had great deaths, just what Kaido wants for himself… but then you can't include Shanks, so no.
I'd argue that the common theme there is not strictly power level, but "people Kaido respects", probably because of their personality and over the top achievements to go along their power, these larger than life characters who are the very definition of Conquerors and left a strong legacy. Big Mom is not like them. Garp is just a marine, which Kaido maybe regards as weak and uninspiring mindset. Shanks inclusion is not perfect since he's so chill, but maybe it works.
-
Or there is just not enough space for every character to appear behind Luffy…
-
You can't justify Garp's absense because he's too old to pose a threat anymore and then accept that four dead people are in the list. By any account, Kaido is either undervaluing Garp's strength or he's only considering pirates, which is not clear.
The list may be composed of people that factually threatened Kaido before, which explains Shanks, but legends like Roger and Rocks are from a previous generation, so obviously Kaido was no match for them at the time, so why their inclusion? Alternatively, Kaido could be comparing his current strength against anyone from anytime considering he witnessed from Roger and Rocks' might, but if it's a list of "people with the potential to defeat him", then he should be also including marines like Garp, honestly.
Another way to look at it is that the list consists of people who had great deaths, just what Kaido wants for himself… but then you can't include Shanks, so no.
I'd argue that the common theme there is not strictly power level, but "people Kaido respects", probably because of their personality and over the top achievements to go along their power, these larger than life characters who are the very definition of Conquerors and left a strong legacy. Big Mom is not like them. Garp is just a marine, which Kaido maybe regards as weak and uninspiring mindset. Shanks inclusion is not perfect since he's so chill, but maybe it works.
I think they are just the obstacles Kaido faced in his pirate life one way or the other, under the big theme "battle for supremacy/Pirate King", and representatives of different levels and accomplishments, hence it ties into the question of "how high is your ceiling", what kind of obstacle can Luffy be, or can he even surpass him.
Kaidou respected the strength of Whitebeard and Roger, he did not respect their mindset, he clearly states that several times, one example https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/One-Piece/0970-005.pngBig Mom was never truly his opponent, he has never met Blackbeard, Marines and Revos (Dragon) are not competing with him.
-
Oh, there is plenty of space. It was a very deliberate choice of characters.
Not necessarily there's a big cohesive plan behind all this, maybe just a collection of big shots of the pirate world (and hyping up Shanks to the level of even bigger legends), but still a conscious choice of what to include and what to leave out.
-
Yeah, Oda should've done it that way:
!
maybe then everyone would've been happy…
He could've arranged it differently, but why? Big Mom can fight Kaido as well, but she's not there, who cares.
-
Very cool chapter, it's a welcome change that we are focused on a single scene for once. Especially loved Kidd's Punk armor and Kaido's attitude. It is refreshing to have him show some kind of feeling instead of the usual bored-to-death stoneface. Also the 3 captains playing who's toughest, that one got a good laugh out of me
The actual trade of blows was a bit of a letdown compared to the opening strike in 1000, though. The Supernovas all know by now what a monster Kaido is, yet it seems they're not giving their all, possibly because Oda chose to do instead some phat fanservicey flashy stuff. I mean, Luffy should know better than to try gear 4 again (where is that super-duper haki that impressed the hell out of everyone moments before ?). Law basically announces Gamma Knife, (which might stand a chance), then proceeds to throw rocks (albeit large ones) ? Kidd goes for the smash hit that couldn't even take down Apoo and expects it to work ? (at least he's trying, he used both hands this time) Also with all the junk he was dragging before, I was expecting a larger mech.
Don't get me wrong, it was all visually pleasing and the flow of events is satisfying. But, I'm not getting the same Oomph feeling I had the first time we saw Fujitora cast down a meteor, or when Gear 4's first ever hit sent Doflamingo flying across an entire island. It's like everybody is still warming up (and maybe they are)If anything, the one I"m impressed with is Kaido, who takes the combined attacks as nonchalantly as he would a 10,000 ft drop and then almost encourages the captains to keep it up because for once something has sparked his interest. If he maintains this current attitude, I might warm up to him as a character in the end.
-
I want to ask if anyone else has this weird feeling about the fight? Like, obviously Kaido has to be defeated, so Wano can finally be free and all, but like, it just seems still too early for him to be beaten?
I don't know how to describe it, but it feels like a Lv. 45 hero taking on a Lv. 90 boss or something.
He's grinning while letting them wail on him. They're going to get trounced.
The analogy I've always used is it's like facing Emerald Weapon before Sephiroth in FF7.Oda's going to have to either pull the "They Get Massive Reinforcements Immediately" card, or they're just going to have to get defeated here then come back with the reinforcements.
Croc or Enel would never.Wanna see the "ancient civilization destroyed" thing done really well? FFXIV did a great take on it. The bar's high for One Piece to beat.
-
I think they are just the obstacles Kaido faced in his pirate life one way or the other, under the big theme "battle for supremacy/Pirate King", and representatives of different levels and accomplishments, hence it ties into the question of "how high is your ceiling", what kind of obstacle can Luffy be, or can he even surpass him.
Kaidou respected the strength of Whitebeard and Roger, he did not respect their mindset, he clearly states that several times, one example https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/One-Piece/0970-005.pngBig Mom was never truly his opponent, he has never met Blackbeard, Marines and Revos (Dragon) are not competing with him.
Kaido has criticism towards Newgate, Roger and Oden because they're "soft", but he's still obsessed with them. He speaks their name constantly and praises them. He wants to die like them.
It's possible that Kaido only cares about their might, but I think they're his idols despite their softness. Kaido wants to match their greatness, which is something bigger than just power, but the overall portrayal of super chads who defined an era and changed the people around them. That's why dying is so important to Kaido as those legends made Kaido see death as a Legacy. Otherwise, he wouldn't care about dying at all. That's why I see this common theme of "people who inspire Kaido", even if there's something ironic about the fact that Kaido doesn't understand what made some of them great, which was their nobleness of spirit.
Still, the inclusion of Shanks feels hasty, but Kaido can probably see in Shanks the same type of great person as those others… and it counts that Shanks actually fought against Kaido. The lack of interactions with Blackbeard is probably why he's out of the list. Big Mom is just not that type of person though.
The others could be excluded because "they're not competing with Kaido", but Marines kinda are competing with him, although in a different way, but not so different actually. These great pirates are basically nations, rogue empires, and they compete against the WG for hegemony, for territory, for their place in the world, and to live under their own rules instead of being under the law of others. The problem is that marines are subordinates, not great men like the great pirates, and that's why they can't be seen as the same.
--- Update From New Post Merge ---
Yeah, Oda should've done it that way:
maybe then everyone would've been happy…
He could've arranged it differently, but why? Big Mom can fight Kaido as well, but she's not there, who cares.
Oda has done panels like this before. If it's in good taste or not, you decide, but it's not beyond Oda to put many more characters behind Luffy if he wanted to. It was a deliberate choice.
I'm not happy or unhappy. I'm interpreting it.
-
He's grinning while letting them wail on him. They're going to get trounced.
He's grinning because he's happy he's getting a chance to get his dream death. He's not really belittling them in any way.
- After Red Roc, Kaido wonders if Luffy has what it takes to reach the top and be the man who kills him.
- Kaido decides to test him again with the same attack that OHKO'd him last time.
- Luffy survives, and without much harm, thus passing Kaido's test.
- the 5 Supernovas go for it with various big attacks.
- Their hits aren't decisive, but they convince Kaido that they are worthy of his respect, and that he can finally flex properly and have an enjoyable battle.
- Kaido takes his gloves off and laments that he has to kill them (because he would have wanted them in his army) and take everything they have (a threat that clearly won't come to pass imo).
This is something that the fanscans got completely wrong, in pursuing speed and snappy dialogue, they completely distorted the meaning of the chapter and made Kaido look like he's being dismissive of the novas and sorta salty that he got hit by Luffy in 1000. With that said, I think the litmus test for when/if a Supernova defeat is coming will be by ch 1004, because such a defeat would probably be a perfect volume ender. If it doesn't happen by then, then they are definitely winning this somehow (my money is on them winning the fight).
-
In this battle so far, Big Mom seems like an afterthought. None of the 5 supernovas are concentrating on her and she has been toeing Kaido's line so far. I wonder what Oda has in store for her.
-
Dear god no more stretching please. After all that dragging and obstacle making to pad the lead up to this fight, to have it end and go in to a new set up and then re-start again would be my definition of hell
-
He's grinning because he's happy he's getting a chance to get his dream death. He's not really belittling them in any way.
- After Red Roc, Kaido wonders if Luffy has what it takes to reach the top and be the man who kills him.
- Kaido decides to test him again with the same attack that OHKO'd him last time.
- Luffy survives, and without much harm, thus passing Kaido's test.
- the 5 Supernovas go for it with various big attacks.
- Their hits aren't decisive, but they convince Kaido that they are worthy of his respect, and that he can finally flex properly and have an enjoyable battle.
- Kaido takes his gloves off and laments that he has to kill them (because he would have wanted them in his army) and take everything they have (a threat that clearly won't come to pass imo).
This is something that the fanscans got completely wrong, in pursuing speed and snappy dialogue, they completely distorted the meaning of the chapter and made Kaido look like he's being dismissive of the novas and sorta salty that he got hit by Luffy in 1000. With that said, I think the litmus test for when/if a Supernova defeat is coming will be by ch 1004, because such a defeat would probably be a perfect volume ender. If it doesn't happen by then, then they are definitely winning this somehow (my money is on them winning the fight).
With all this in mind, one of the reactions you don't want from your opponent when you are hitting them is a smile, regardless of the source or reason for the smile.
Croc or Enel would never.Wanna see the "ancient civilization destroyed" thing done really well? FFXIV did a great take on it. The bar's high for One Piece to beat.
-
With that said, I think the litmus test for when/if a Supernova defeat is coming will be by ch 1004, because such a defeat would probably be a perfect volume ender.
I wouldn't be so positive on this, because sooner or later, we are going to see the rest of the Straw Hats inside Onigashima. Depending on when and how this happens, we may hit 1004 with a roof battle left hanging, switch to the castle interior for a while and come back to the defeated captains later on. Not a hard defeat though, not the "pull back and restart somewhere else" kind. Rather, I would imagine them at the end of their strength and wits and in dire need for backup, which is when various allies and other Straw Hats could timely start showing up
-
Dear god no more stretching please. After all that dragging and obstacle making to pad the lead up to this fight, to have it end and go in to a new set up and then re-start again would be my definition of hell
I think Luffy and Kaidou will fight until one of them is defeated but the characters around them will change. All the other fights will start and stop and maybe even re-start but Luffy vs Kaidou is now on motion and won't stop.
-
Dear god no more stretching please. After all that dragging and obstacle making to pad the lead up to this fight, to have it end and go in to a new set up and then re-start again would be my definition of hell
This is my hope too, but I still see people adamantly believing in a big tragedy + restart, which would honestly suck.
With all this in mind, one of the reactions you don't want from your opponent when you are hitting them is a smile, regardless of the source or reason for the smile.
Kaido isn't the 1st villain to be overconfident before getting his ass kicked, and he won't be the last either. They all think they can win and proclaim that they will do xyz afterwards and nothing comes out of it.
I wouldn't be so positive on this, because sooner or later, we are going to see the rest of the Straw Hats inside Onigashima. Depending on when and how this happens, we may hit 1004 with a roof battle left hanging, switch to the castle interior for a while and come back to the defeated captains later on. Not a hard defeat though, not the "pull back and restart somewhere else" kind. Rather, I would imagine them at the end of their strength and wits and in dire need for backup, which is when various allies and other Straw Hats could timely start showing up
With the amount of time dedicated to getting Kaido to respect the Supernovas, I doubt we'd get an off-screened defeat for them, I feel it's either an on-screen defeat or none at all. And a Luffy defeat is too good a cliffhanger to waste on an in-between chapter imho.
-
Umm this might be a really stupid question but….. was Luffy using Ryou Haki on his gear fourth punch?
I didn’t see any aura around it, there was no flame, the name of the attack didn’t change and it seemed far less effective than gear third did on Kaido (which I assumed was less powerful as a gear, given the number difference and how gear fourth got through both Doflamingo and crackers defenses when gear third couldn’t)
-
What a chapter! My big boy Jinbe enjoying the Straw Hat life. The kind of life that says yes, you may enjoy the smaller things!
Luffy say's "Gear Four" in the english official. Must have been a mistake right? Stephen you around? Or am I thinking of the show where its reversed?
There was a person some time ago that believed Zoro was the strongest Straw Hat. Pretty sure there was no foolin' either. Where ever you are fellow poster, never forget, no one is Luffy's equal.
Wouldn't it be nice if Zoro and Big Mom clashed swords? I would hope some interesting dialogue would follow. I really really want some acknowledgment about there being differences between what one may consider legit sword play. Mihawk could certainly put up a fight against the Emperors I'm sure but as far as portrayals go Mihawk is not up there with Big Mom or Kaidou. In pure sword play I imagine Mihawk could and would win against Linlin. Once she starts using her other abilities however thats a completely different story. This being said of course I'm mostly wondering if Shanks exclusively uses his sword in battle or does he have other tricks involved?
Folks who read One Piece… Just better people. ¯\(ツ)/¯
-
Umm this might be a really stupid question but….. was Luffy using Ryou Haki on his gear fourth punch?
I didn’t see any aura around it, there was no flame, the name of the attack didn’t change and it seemed far less effective than gear third did on Kaido (which I assumed was less powerful as a gear, given the number difference and how gear fourth got through both Doflamingo and crackers defenses when gear third couldn’t)
Thats what I thought as well when the gear4 attack seemed less powerful and impactful than the gear 3 red roc attack. But I think at that time, Kaido did not know Luffy could hurt him, but now he does. So he protected himself with haki?
-
So, I read a scan where (in the image where Shanks, WB, Rocks, Roger and Oden are shown) Kaidou thinks something like "do you imply to be on their level?" while the official version reads "How high will your ceiling go?" So, In the scan he seems to think Luffy is anywhere near that level while in the official version Kaidou seems to compliment Luffy (in his mind) and implying he might be or become even greater then them… Which is more correct?
Also, great absentees in this same image of "people that can fight Kaidou" are Blackbeard, Big Mom, Dragon (perhaps?) and some high level marines like Garp, Sengoku, Kong, Akainu, ... I mean, It would be safe to guess there will be more than a handfull, no? Also, his handful includes three dead people, 1 possibly dead and Shanks. It feels like Kaidou thinks that the only person that is confirmed to be alive and can actual give him and interesting fight is Shanks.
Remember, remember, the 5th of November
-
So, I read a scan where (in the image where Shanks, WB, Rocks, Roger and Oden are shown) Kaidou thinks something like "do you imply to be on their level?" while the official version reads "How high will your ceiling go?" So, In the scan he seems to think Luffy is anywhere near that level while in the official version Kaidou seems to compliment Luffy (in his mind) and implying he might be or become even greater then them… Which is more correct?
Also, great absentees in this same image of "people that can fight Kaidou" are Blackbeard, Big Mom, Dragon (perhaps?) and some high level marines like Garp, Sengoku, Kong, Akainu, ... I mean, It would be safe to guess there will be more than a handfull, no? Also, his handful includes three dead people, 1 possibly dead and Shanks. It feels like Kaidou thinks that the only person that is confirmed to be alive and can actual give him and interesting fight is Shanks.
Stephen is more accurate here, for more:
https://kaizokuou-ni-naru.tumblr.com/post/640623356203384832/hi-there-in-chapter-1001-when-kaidou-is-thinking -
In this battle so far, Big Mom seems like an afterthought. None of the 5 supernovas are concentrating on her and she has been toeing Kaido's line so far. I wonder what Oda has in store for her.
Big Mom had more than enough paneltime to shine, while Kaido is a underdeveloped mess in comparison. He needs to deliver now, if only in the one area he's supposed to be the star: combat.
Personally I don't expect much from BM at this point, it's just about how she can be removed. Because they won't be fighting 2 Yonkou with this setup, that's for sure. -
Luffy beats Kaidos ass up and down this rooftop and the other dinks run interference. BM problem sorted
-
Everyone keeps saying Luffy will win but wouldn't it be a viable option that Luffy actually loses, although not by much?
If Luffy loses, my guess is Kaidou will take everything from him (like he said) and immedeately go for the One Piece. We had rescue arcs for Nami, Sanji and Robin but never the whole crew. What if Kaidou takes the crew and gets Robin to decipher the Poneglyphs for him? The emperors definitely need something that makes them able to read them to be actual rivals to Luffy for the title of Pirate King. As they are now, they can't get to Laugh tale at all. Pudding's eye is not working yet and Kaidou has no clue that Yamato might know and even if he did, Yamato doesn't seem inclined to tell him anytime soon. If Kaidou takes Luffy's crew, Luffy would need to go in pursuit, perhaps aided by his armada (perfect time to call on them), the samurai, the minks, etc. to save his crew and to be able to beat Kaidou to Laugh Tale. He also has Yamato on his side and most probably the way to Laugh Tale was written in Oden's notebook.
Maybe a bit too much fanfiction-like but I wouldn't be to sure that Luffy will win this.
Remember, remember, the 5th of November
-
Sure, Zoro can clash against Big Mom, but can he bake a cake that is so good that makes her faint??
Sanji 1 x Zoro 0
-
Everyone keeps saying Luffy will win but wouldn't it be a viable option that Luffy actually loses, although not by much?
If Luffy loses, my guess is Kaidou will take everything from him (like he said) and immedeately go for the One Piece. We had rescue arcs for Nami, Sanji and Robin but never the whole crew. What if Kaidou takes the crew and gets Robin to decipher the Poneglyphs for him? The emperors definitely need something that makes them able to read them to be actual rivals to Luffy for the title of Pirate King. As they are now, they can't get to Laugh tale at all. Pudding's eye is not working yet and Kaidou has no clue that Yamato might know and even if he did, Yamato doesn't seem inclined to tell him anytime soon. If Kaidou takes Luffy's crew, Luffy would need to go in pursuit, perhaps aided by his armada (perfect time to call on them), the samurai, the minks, etc. to save his crew and to be able to beat Kaidou to Laugh Tale. He also has Yamato on his side and most probably the way to Laugh Tale was written in Oden's notebook.
Maybe a bit too much fanfiction-like but I wouldn't be to sure that Luffy will win this.
This could have been an option prior to Oda's dreaded "5 more years" statement, but as it stands we don't have more time to spend on the old guard Yonkou. Not while Teach, Shanks, Dragon, Imu and Vegapunk are still on the table. I could see Big Mom remaining somewhat relevant, but not as a panel-eating antagonist.
-
Luffy say's "Gear Four" in the english official. Must have been a mistake right? Stephen you around? Or am I thinking of the show where its reversed?
Luffy's been saying Gear Second, Gear Three, Gear Four since the start at Enies Lobby. In both the manga and the japanese. Does the dub do it different?
-
Yes actually. In the Funimation dub he goes “Second Gear!” I must have gotten mixed up for a second. I guess they wanted to be grammatically correct.
-
This could have been an option prior to Oda's dreaded "5 more years" statement, but as it stands we don't have more time to spend on the old guard Yonkou. Not while Teach, Shanks, Dragon, Imu and Vegapunk are still on the table. I could see Big Mom remaining somewhat relevant, but not as a panel-eating antagonist.
If Luffy is pursuing Kaidou and nothing else would happen except for the pursuit I'd agree with you but I still want Moria to show up to have his revenge on Kaidou (or at least try to get revenge on Kaidou) and if this happens when he is part of Teach' crew that'd mean that Luffy, Kaidou and Teach might clash. Meanwhile the marines should also be informed by Sword and CP-0 that Kaidou has made great progress to become the Pirate King and they are not going to sit idly by and let it happen so the marines also join the fight. Also, if Kaidou beats Luffy, my guess is the collaboration between Big Mom and Kaidou will conitnue so suddenly you'd have a fight between 3 yonkou, Luffy and the Marines, all fighting eachother.
Just stating a possibility here. I'd find it strange if the Marines would actually be fought before finding the One Piece. The One Piece is not the end goal and it never was. It is what happens after finding it that will change the world and the final enemy, to me, has always been the Marines, or at least part of the marines. The Celestial Dragons, The 5 elders, Imu,… The ones that believe in Akainu's absolute justice.
-
I Wonder if there is a chance that Orochi will be threat in next part of this arc. Can we be sure that non of ancient weapons are in Wano? With all big reveals lately and biggest mysteries of One Piece being put on table it would be crazy if Orochi gets back with ancient weapon.
He wanted Vegapunk from World Goverment and maybe it was for making copies of what he found in Wano. Us seeing how destructive those weapons can be with Orochi shooting down Onigashima would be hype as hell
-
Everyone keeps saying Luffy will win but wouldn't it be a viable option that Luffy actually loses, although not by much?
If Luffy loses, my guess is Kaidou will take everything from him (like he said) and immedeately go for the One Piece. We had rescue arcs for Nami, Sanji and Robin but never the whole crew. What if Kaidou takes the crew and gets Robin to decipher the Poneglyphs for him? The emperors definitely need something that makes them able to read them to be actual rivals to Luffy for the title of Pirate King. As they are now, they can't get to Laugh tale at all. Pudding's eye is not working yet and Kaidou has no clue that Yamato might know and even if he did, Yamato doesn't seem inclined to tell him anytime soon. If Kaidou takes Luffy's crew, Luffy would need to go in pursuit, perhaps aided by his armada (perfect time to call on them), the samurai, the minks, etc. to save his crew and to be able to beat Kaidou to Laugh Tale. He also has Yamato on his side and most probably the way to Laugh Tale was written in Oden's notebook.
Maybe a bit too much fanfiction-like but I wouldn't be to sure that Luffy will win this.
I actually think we're set for a "Rescue Luffy" arc, since that Vivre Card Sabo made will need to pay off someday.
Don't think it will involve Kaido though. Luffy would have no way to track Kaido if he took his crewmates.
-
Kaido has criticism towards Newgate, Roger and Oden because they're "soft", but he's still obsessed with them. He speaks their name constantly and praises them. He wants to die like them.
It's possible that Kaido only cares about their might, but I think they're his idols despite their softness. Kaido wants to match their greatness, which is something bigger than just power, but the overall portrayal of super chads who defined an era and changed the people around them. That's why dying is so important to Kaido as those legends made Kaido see death as a Legacy. Otherwise, he wouldn't care about dying at all. That's why I see this common theme of "people who inspire Kaido", even if there's something ironic about the fact that Kaido doesn't understand what made some of them great, which was their nobleness of spirit.
Still, the inclusion of Shanks feels hasty, but Kaido can probably see in Shanks the same type of great person as those others… and it counts that Shanks actually fought against Kaido. The lack of interactions with Blackbeard is probably why he's out of the list. Big Mom is just not that type of person though.
The others could be excluded because "they're not competing with Kaido", but Marines kinda are competing with him, although in a different way, but not so different actually. These great pirates are basically nations, rogue empires, and they compete against the WG for hegemony, for territory, for their place in the world, and to live under their own rules instead of being under the law of others. The problem is that marines are subordinates, not great men like the great pirates, and that's why they can't be seen as the same.
--- Update From New Post Merge ---
Oda has done panels like this before. If it's in good taste or not, you decide, but it's not beyond Oda to put many more characters behind Luffy if he wanted to. It was a deliberate choice.
I'm not happy or unhappy. I'm interpreting it.
Kaido has never talked about Roger iirc, WB only in regards to his strength, Oden because he nearly killed him.
Him having any kind of feeling towards them is not substantiated, it might be if we get a Rocks flashback, especially to how he was beaten by Roger and Garp, but that´s in the future.
What greatness does he want to match? Roger did nothing with the PK title, WB had it in its grasp but was not interested. Kaido is not the type to empathize with their feelings of not using their might (Roger and inherited will, WB and his family).
It depends on how he creates the era, and his aim is different than theirs, as the definition of Pirate King is entirely different from Roger´s as well, just like from Luffy´s.
These guys, BM included, respect the strength of Roger and WB (any by extension Garp) but also are frustrated with them and by them. Kaido and BM, as remnant of the old era, are glorified silver medalists. Roger and WB represented a wall they were never able to get over, and you can see that as a drive to achieve that. But that´s not under the term "inspire" as i understand it.I do not agree with this, it´s not too complicated. Guys that left an impression on Kaidou, who is someone who usually can´t get hurt, and the people he is thinking of are possible limits Luffy for Luffy, hence the ceiling part. The shadows are more connected to that statement than the one before.
Marines are not competing with him, they have not done so for more than two decades of the Great Pirate Era.
Marines have no business in the New World normally, neither have they in territory of the Yonkou, except undercover missions (Drake now, Stussy in BM, though technically Stussy is CP-0). G5 is a big exception, and it´s no coincidence they sent the unwanted ones there.
At best they try to keep the Emperors separate, and serve as information source for the HQ, it´s literally a cold war situation in which they almost never directly meet in open combat.
But even then, Marines have no idea what is going on in Wa No (pre-Drake), as Akainu points out.
The Yonkou, as cruel as it sounds, are a stabilizing entity that both suppresses chaos and guys with possibly even greater potential than them but not the long career. They were the preferable evil over the true chaos that could see the rise of a second Pirate King.
This is why Marines literally starting a war against Whitebeard because of Ace was such a huge deal, the more than two decades old balance of powers was getting risked over an arguably strong but at first glance, in the grand scheme of things, insignificant pirate, until we learned the Marines suspected and feared that he could become the second PK due to his heritage.
Also don´t forget that Yonkou meeting, meaning guys of such status, is extremely rare, as are the fights between them. First thing BM asks when she sees Kaidou is "how many decades has it been", Whitebeard´s first instinct upon seeing Shanks is to talk about things 20 years ago, and now asks Shanks about his arm, something that happened more than a decade ago, Blackbeard still has not met one of the Yonkou in a fight and the list goes on.
But once the Marines made the first step with Ace and Whitebeard, the sea became chaotic almost immediately, Kaidou started to move, Shanks started to move and so on. And it is obvious this did not happen in the Great Pirate Era, seeing the reactions. Gorosei were fearful of Shanks and WB meeting, Momonga commented on how chaotic the seas have become after learning Shanks clashed with Kaidou, and they emphasize it was just "minor clashes" (https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/One-Piece/0533-009.png).The statement of Law that "Yonkou competed with Whitebeard for territories" has been shown to be literally just that, small fights over who gets what without going at it seriously. It´s probably also part and source of Kaido´s boredom, nothing substantial happened in the last 20 years, and when it was just happening, he was stopped by Shanks.
Coming back to the Marines, yes, the significant force of them, the Admirals, usually have no place in the New World. Think about how the Gorosei were angry that Aokiji was taking a stroll in Paradise even, talking about how he is forgetting his position (https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/One-Piece/0303-019.png) because someone like him can´t just move around. And why is that? Because they are the force that directly counter the Yonkou. I always looked at it as OP´s version of a mini arms race, only that the Yonkou and Admirals represent nuclear missiles. So they do not go around picking fights unless it is absolutely necessary in their eyes, and that was the case with Ace, and maybe only then it was the case.
So Kaidou, in the last two decades at least, has not fought with them, and in that two decades, the current Admirals have risen to that position. Akainu and Aokiji we saw in Robin´s flashback as Vice Admirals, Kizaru in Fishman Island flashback as Vice Admiral, and that applies even more so for the two new ones.
But that changed over the timeskip, the Marines moved their HQ to the New World, and as several characters pointed out, they are preparing something huge, could be SSG, could be something else.
And Garp and Sengoku? They were mostly active in the previous era, Garp was Roger´s biggest adversary from Marines, but his biggest accomplishment was when Kaidou was just an apprentice, when he did not even have the ability that made him near invincible.So it has nothing to do with "great man". BM expressed respect for Garp, so did Whitebeard.
-
16chars of Break :cwy:
-
Kaido has never talked about Roger iirc, WB only in regards to his strength, Oden because he nearly killed him.
Him having any kind of feeling towards them is not substantiated, it might be if we get a Rocks flashback, especially to how he was beaten by Roger and Garp, but that´s in the future.
What greatness does he want to match? Roger did nothing with the PK title, WB had it in its grasp but was not interested. Kaido is not the type to empathize with their feelings of not using their might (Roger and inherited will, WB and his family).
It depends on how he creates the era, and his aim is different than theirs, as the definition of Pirate King is entirely different from Roger´s as well, just like from Luffy´s.
These guys, BM included, respect the strength of Roger and WB (any by extension Garp) but also are frustrated with them and by them. Kaido and BM, as remnant of the old era, are glorified silver medalists. Roger and WB represented a wall they were never able to get over, and you can see that as a drive to achieve that. But that´s not under the term "inspire" as i understand it.I do not agree with this, it´s not too complicated. Guys that left an impression on Kaidou, who is someone who usually can´t get hurt, and the people he is thinking of are possible limits Luffy for Luffy, hence the ceiling part. The shadows are more connected to that statement than the one before.
Kaido has never said something like "oh, I love these guys, how awesome they were", but it's a recurring theme to have him glorifying their existence more than their strength itself. Kaido's own introduction is shoehorning Whitebeard's name to inform the audience that Kaido wants to follow in his steps. Note that he is not saying "oh, Whitebeard was so strong", but rather congratulating something more transcendental.
!
The same feeling was reiterated recently including Roger's name:
!
Of course, we have yet to see a more in-depth perspective of Kaido's opinions in regards to these past legends, but it's important to point out that these are not random comments just mentioning their names, but remarks directly tied to Kaido's final goal: to have a magnificent death. He's talking about them out of nowhere, nobody asked anything, but it's just in his mind all time. It's the most direct interpretation to understand Kaido's intentions based on the strong impressions left on him by Roger, Whitebeard and Oden. Maybe Rocks too, but we don't know much of his death yet.
It's also implied that Kaido grew up to deeply admired Oden despite his softness. Some of it is because of his PTSD due to Oden's strength, so there's this factor too, but he came to respect the way of the samurai and their determination, even if it's something that does not fit him personaly. Kaido even shows regret for the way he defeated Oden, and so he killed the Kurozumi old hag. Like, he even says that his scar
That's why I say that Kaido is inspired by them. He doesn't agree with their ways, but he wants to match their greatness. You ask what greatness? Well, their legend, their status, their influence. Kaido's desire for a world of violence is only a superficial aspiration since his biggest desire is to die in a way to be remembered forever. A person who seeks to die is not someone who only cares about abusing his might.
What you said about Kaido being a silver medalist is right, so his admiration may come out of frustration too, but there's something deeper than that.
Marines are not competing with him, they have not done so for more than two decades of the Great Pirate Era.
Marines have no business in the New World normally, neither have they in territory of the Yonkou, except undercover missions (Drake now, Stussy in BM, though technically Stussy is CP-0). G5 is a big exception, and it´s no coincidence they sent the unwanted ones there.
At best they try to keep the Emperors separate, and serve as information source for the HQ, it´s literally a cold war situation in which they almost never directly meet in open combat.
But even then, Marines have no idea what is going on in Wa No (pre-Drake), as Akainu points out.
The Yonkou, as cruel as it sounds, are a stabilizing entity that both suppresses chaos and guys with possibly even greater potential than them but not the long career. They were the preferable evil over the true chaos that could see the rise of a second Pirate King.
This is why Marines literally starting a war against Whitebeard because of Ace was such a huge deal, the more than two decades old balance of powers was getting risked over an arguably strong but at first glance, in the grand scheme of things, insignificant pirate, until we learned the Marines suspected and feared that he could become the second PK due to his heritage.
Also don´t forget that Yonkou meeting, meaning guys of such status, is extremely rare, as are the fights between them. First thing BM asks when she sees Kaidou is "how many decades has it been", Whitebeard´s first instinct upon seeing Shanks is to talk about things 20 years ago, and now asks Shanks about his arm, something that happened more than a decade ago, Blackbeard still has not met one of the Yonkou in a fight and the list goes on.
But once the Marines made the first step with Ace and Whitebeard, the sea became chaotic almost immediately, Kaidou started to move, Shanks started to move and so on. And it is obvious this did not happen in the Great Pirate Era, seeing the reactions. Gorosei were fearful of Shanks and WB meeting, Momonga commented on how chaotic the seas have become after learning Shanks clashed with Kaidou, and they emphasize it was just "minor clashes" (https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/One-Piece/0533-009.png).The statement of Law that "Yonkou competed with Whitebeard for territories" has been shown to be literally just that, small fights over who gets what without going at it seriously. It´s probably also part and source of Kaido´s boredom, nothing substantial happened in the last 20 years, and when it was just happening, he was stopped by Shanks.
Coming back to the Marines, yes, the significant force of them, the Admirals, usually have no place in the New World. Think about how the Gorosei were angry that Aokiji was taking a stroll in Paradise even, talking about how he is forgetting his position (https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/One-Piece/0303-019.png) because someone like him can´t just move around. And why is that? Because they are the force that directly counter the Yonkou. I always looked at it as OP´s version of a mini arms race, only that the Yonkou and Admirals represent nuclear missiles. So they do not go around picking fights unless it is absolutely necessary in their eyes, and that was the case with Ace, and maybe only then it was the case.
So Kaidou, in the last two decades at least, has not fought with them, and in that two decades, the current Admirals have risen to that position. Akainu and Aokiji we saw in Robin´s flashback as Vice Admirals, Kizaru in Fishman Island flashback as Vice Admiral, and that applies even more so for the two new ones.
But that changed over the timeskip, the Marines moved their HQ to the New World, and as several characters pointed out, they are preparing something huge, could be SSG, could be something else.
And Garp and Sengoku? They were mostly active in the previous era, Garp was Roger´s biggest adversary from Marines, but his biggest accomplishment was when Kaidou was just an apprentice, when he did not even have the ability that made him near invincible.So it has nothing to do with "great man". BM expressed respect for Garp, so did Whitebeard.
I understand that the last 20 years were a stalemate without that much action, but to say that Kaido was never threatened by the Marines and never competed against them is probably not true.
Besides Kaido's 7 defeats throughout his life, it's explicitly said that he was captured by the MARINES or enemy ships 18 times. He lived as a prisoner. He was sentenced to death 40 times. All of this implies many battles against the Marines besides other pirates and nations.
We don't know much about the chronology or the details of those events, but these are facts that should be considered nonetheless, just like Oden became such a vivid memory in his life despite being something of 20 years ago, which was probably before he became an Emperor. If Kaido can look up to Rocks, someone from 40 years ago when he was still an apprentice, I see no reason why he couldn't consider any great Marine he witnessed during his entire life too… that is, if Kaido is only measuring strength.
-
Big Mom had more than enough paneltime to shine, while Kaido is a underdeveloped mess in comparison. He needs to deliver now, if only in the one area he's supposed to be the star: combat.
Personally I don't expect much from BM at this point, it's just about how she can be removed. Because they won't be fighting 2 Yonkou with this setup, that's for sure.Yes BM is the most fleshed out Yonko for sure but we have never seen her getting pushed. Even Kaido was getting pummeled and stabbed but BM had not had a scratch on her that was given by someone else. I wonder how she will be removed from the battle.
Plus there is a huge issue about what happened with Carmel and her split personality. Like you said once the memory issue gets resolved, BM character arc will come a full circle. -
Nezummi or what ever his name is called, the rat marine captain from arlong's arc who is the reason the marines even got wind of Luffy to give him his first bounty and said luffy will become big, after 1000 chapters and this monumental arc and saga, it would be cool to see what his reaction is seeing how big luffy have gotten in all truth.
-
Thats what I thought as well when the gear4 attack seemed less powerful and impactful than the gear 3 red roc attack. But I think at that time, Kaido did not know Luffy could hurt him, but now he does. So he protected himself with haki?
Yeah that’s definitely a possibility I didn’t think of, but still there was no aura around his fist and the attack name didn’t change, so I’m not 100% sure
-
Kaido has never said something like "oh, I love these guys, how awesome they were", but it's a recurring theme to have him glorifying their existence more than their strength itself. Kaido's own introduction is shoehorning Whitebeard's name to inform the audience that Kaido wants to follow in his steps. Note that he is not saying "oh, Whitebeard was so strong", but rather congratulating something more transcendental.
! https://cdn.read7deadlysins.com/file/mangap/2/10795000/16.jpg
The same feeling was reiterated recently including Roger's name:
! https://cdn.read7deadlysins.com/file/AnimeRleases/OP_994_4.jpg
Of course, we have yet to see a more in-depth perspective of Kaido's opinions in regards to these past legends, but it's important to point out that these are not random comments just mentioning their names, but remarks directly tied to Kaido's final goal: to have a magnificent death. He's talking about them out of nowhere, nobody asked anything, but it's just in his mind all time. It's the most direct interpretation to understand Kaido's intentions based on the strong impressions left on him by Roger, Whitebeard and Oden. Maybe Rocks too, but we don't know much of his death yet.
It's also implied that Kaido grew up to deeply admired Oden despite his softness. Some of it is because of his PTSD due to Oden's strength, so there's this factor too, but he came to respect the way of the samurai and their determination, even if it's something that does not fit him personaly. Kaido even shows regret for the way he defeated Oden, and so he killed the Kurozumi old hag. Like, he even says that his scar
That's why I say that Kaido is inspired by them. He doesn't agree with their ways, but he wants to match their greatness. You ask what greatness? Well, their legend, their status, their influence. Kaido's desire for a world of violence is only a superficial aspiration since his biggest desire is to die in a way to be remembered forever. A person who seeks to die is not someone who only cares about abusing his might.
What you said about Kaido being a silver medalist is right, so his admiration may come out of frustration too, but there's something deeper than that.
I understand that the last 20 years were a stalemate without that much action, but to say that Kaido was never threatened by the Marines and never competed against them is probably not true.
Besides Kaido's 7 defeats throughout his life, it's explicitly said that he was captured by the MARINES or enemy ships 18 times. He lived as a prisoner. He was sentenced to death 40 times. All of this implies many battles against the Marines besides other pirates and nations.
We don't know much about the chronology or the details of those events, but these are facts that should be considered nonetheless, just like Oden became such a vivid memory in his life despite being something of 20 years ago, which was probably before he became an Emperor. If Kaido can look up to Rocks, someone from 40 years ago when he was still an apprentice, I see no reason why he couldn't consider any great Marine he witnessed during his entire life too… that is, if Kaido is only measuring strength.
He wants to follow in WB in regards to death, not because he admires WB, the entire context is him jumping to suicide but not managing it. WB managed to die, he himself could not do again, that´s the background. Once again, about dying. He talks about a fight to death, and said WB and Roger did it right. Those are not words of admiration. WB went all out and died in a battle, Roger lived a flashy life and died, Kaido yearns for death. But this is not inspire in my sense.
Having said that, Oden does not have a magnificent death in his eyes, he liked his determination but he died a dog´s death, and Shanks is alive.
So that interpretation is not consistent, unless you argue with different context for each shadow. Because in the end, this is not about being great, but going all out and die.
Also once again nothing to do with their personality but a specific deed they did.
Kaido is more revered than Shanks and Oden, and Rocks is not known to the world. So once again, if you want to argue with different context for each shadow, ok, but one interpretation to fit all, at least in what you describe, does not work.It´s practically clear at this point Kaido´s introduction is empty hype since you can see the holes in it, but
-
Like you said, we don´t know when this happened, nor the context. We do know explicitly that Marines, except a few affiliated countries (like Dressrosa) do not meddle in the New World, at least since the balance of powers was established. So i am taking something that has been emphasized many times and is a key aspect of the world of One Piece over a shaky introduction.
-
If you want to insist we are supposed to take that introduction as completely factual, which is hard to do considering we now know where Kaidou´s supposed invincibility comes from, and there are relatively easy ways to bypass it (CoA level 2 at least for instance, which many characters showed, also non-physical blows), hence it is so hard to suspend my disbelief, the logical assumption is, that happened before the balance established itself, which still proves my point, he has not met the essential people who would create an impression on him from this era of Marines.
-
He is not doing so because he never witnessed their prowess on himself, like i said.
And like i said, he is not measuring strength, he is measuring strength of those that established they can fight him.
-
-
I actually think we're set for a "Rescue Luffy" arc, since that Vivre Card Sabo made will need to pay off someday.
Don't think it will involve Kaido though. Luffy would have no way to track Kaido if he took his crewmates.
If the crew and the poneglyphs get taken than Luffy knows where they are heading. They'd be heading to Laugh Tale or Lodestar. He can get there with the help of Yamato.
Remember, remember, the 5th of November
-
If the crew and the poneglyphs get taken than Luffy knows where they are heading. They'd be heading to Laugh Tale or Lodestar. He can get there with the help of Yamato.
That makes no sense since you need a Vivre Card to actually sail directly somewhere.
Otherwise, you would need to take the long route with a Log Pose.
-
That makes no sense since you need a Vivre Card to actually sail directly somewhere.
Otherwise, you would need to take the long route with a Log Pose.
You don't know if it actually is "the long route" seeing it hasn't been mentioned how many islands there still are in the New World. Also, you don't need a vivre card to go somewhere AND you don't know what is in the logbook either. Oden more than probably kept it from the moment he left Wano. Also, you can't get to Lodestar by Log Pose as I understand it, otherwise it would be easier to reach so you'd need a different way of getting there anyway. All they need to do is follow the instructions in Oden's log (if there are any) and they'll eventually bump into Kaidou seeing he also will need to follow the same instructions and the same path.
Remember, remember, the 5th of November
-
You don't know if it actually is "the long route" seeing it hasn't been mentioned how many islands there still are in the New World. Also, you don't need a vivre card to go somewhere AND you don't know what is in the logbook either. Oden more than probably kept it from the moment he left Wano. Also, you can't get to Lodestar by Log Pose as I understand it, otherwise it would be easier to reach so you'd need a different way of getting there anyway. All they need to do is follow the instructions in Oden's log (if there are any) and they'll eventually bump into Kaidou seeing he also will need to follow the same instructions and the same path.
You also need the fourth poneglyph to go there, which no one knows where it is.
This alone prevents any "Kaidou will go to Lodestar/Laugh Tale" ideas. Oden very likely did not write down this information since the navigating wasn't done by him (and if he did, Kaido would have no way to know, since he didn't read the Log). Lodestar itself is rather unimportant for anyone who already knows of the Poneglyphs, so there's no reason to go there.
-
Kaido has never said something like "oh, I love these guys, how awesome they were", but it's a recurring theme to have him glorifying their existence more than their strength itself. Kaido's own introduction is shoehorning Whitebeard's name to inform the audience that Kaido wants to follow in his steps. Note that he is not saying "oh, Whitebeard was so strong", but rather congratulating something more transcendental.
! https://cdn.read7deadlysins.com/file/mangap/2/10795000/16.jpg
The same feeling was reiterated recently including Roger's name:
! https://cdn.read7deadlysins.com/file/AnimeRleases/OP_994_4.jpg
Of course, we have yet to see a more in-depth perspective of Kaido's opinions in regards to these past legends, but it's important to point out that these are not random comments just mentioning their names, but remarks directly tied to Kaido's final goal: to have a magnificent death. He's talking about them out of nowhere, nobody asked anything, but it's just in his mind all time. It's the most direct interpretation to understand Kaido's intentions based on the strong impressions left on him by Roger, Whitebeard and Oden. Maybe Rocks too, but we don't know much of his death yet.
It's also implied that Kaido grew up to deeply admired Oden despite his softness. Some of it is because of his PTSD due to Oden's strength, so there's this factor too, but he came to respect the way of the samurai and their determination, even if it's something that does not fit him personaly. Kaido even shows regret for the way he defeated Oden, and so he killed the Kurozumi old hag. Like, he even says that his scar
That's why I say that Kaido is inspired by them. He doesn't agree with their ways, but he wants to match their greatness. You ask what greatness? Well, their legend, their status, their influence. Kaido's desire for a world of violence is only a superficial aspiration since his biggest desire is to die in a way to be remembered forever. A person who seeks to die is not someone who only cares about abusing his might.
What you said about Kaido being a silver medalist is right, so his admiration may come out of frustration too, but there's something deeper than that.
I understand that the last 20 years were a stalemate without that much action, but to say that Kaido was never threatened by the Marines and never competed against them is probably not true.
Besides Kaido's 7 defeats throughout his life, it's explicitly said that he was captured by the MARINES or enemy ships 18 times. He lived as a prisoner. He was sentenced to death 40 times. All of this implies many battles against the Marines besides other pirates and nations.
We don't know much about the chronology or the details of those events, but these are facts that should be considered nonetheless, just like Oden became such a vivid memory in his life despite being something of 20 years ago, which was probably before he became an Emperor. If Kaido can look up to Rocks, someone from 40 years ago when he was still an apprentice, I see no reason why he couldn't consider any great Marine he witnessed during his entire life too… that is, if Kaido is only measuring strength.
Maybe Kaido just wants to have an epic death broadcast for all the world to see ?
-
You also need the fourth poneglyph to go there, which no one knows where it is.
This alone prevents any "Kaidou will go to Lodestar/Laugh Tale" ideas. Oden very likely did not write down this information since the navigating wasn't done by him (and if he did, Kaido would have no way to know, since he didn't read the Log). Lodestar itself is rather unimportant for anyone who already knows of the Poneglyphs, so there's no reason to go there.
That is an interesting note right there. I don't think there's been any clue at all where it is, right? I wonder where the Straw Hats are sailing to after Wano.
-
Rescue Sabo.
But will be derailed, andveill go to Elbaf instead
-
Rescue Sabo.
But will be derailed, andveill go to Elbaf instead
I seriously hope there will not be another "save the brother" scenario. It has been done.
Remember, remember, the 5th of November
-
I seriously hope there will not be another "save the brother" scenario. It has been done.
I would not be surprised if Oda makes the point unsuccessful vs successful, basically as redemption for Luffy for failing last time.
Though Sabo made a VC of Luffy, so the way i understood it, Sabo can find Luffy, but not other way around. -
I think it'll be a wider rescue arc meant to create new allies within the Revolutionaries. Luffy already has Dragon and Ivanov on his side. He'll save Sabo, and Kuma. And by trying to reverse Kuma's robotization process, Luffy (and we) will meet Vegapunk.
Eh, fuck it.
