"Two who wishes to be reunited, but could never be together.."
Why do I have a feeling that it is Hiyori and Momo? And that considering their current location, this foreshadows an important moment when the fight takes to Wano's capital.
My first thought was that it was about her longing to be with Kaido
Could black maria be loyal to konzuki clan? Like friends of hyiori, both as oirans must of worked together… Maybe She is even related to kyoshiro since he was in charge of all that stuff.
"Two who wishes to be reunited, but could never be together.."
Why do I have a feeling that it is Hiyori and Momo? And that considering their current location, this foreshadows an important moment when the fight takes to Wano's capital.
There's a random panel of Yamato chasing Momo in the song montage, so I think it's probably related to that group. Otherwise why not just include it earlier like with Carrot and Luffy?
What people have seemingly ignored is, based on all indications, Kaido is the strongest person or creature in One Piece. He has the highest bounty presently, he is termed the strongest creature, he's purportedly building an army that will fight the greatest war ever seen, and he one shorted Luffy who has the highest bounty outside of the Yonko's.
That said, I can't remember ever reading a manga where the strongest character seems as easy to land attacks on as this. It's just plain weird. That last hit on the spot of his old wound should cause considerable damage. How will Oda portray his turn around convincingly as his attackers are still full of vitality and willing to keep attacking without distraction.
Even if there is a turn around by Kaido, the real problem is that the sense of tension, fear and suspense when he fights Luffy will be lost. All the hype around Kaido has now been truly dampened.
On a side note, something that has been at the back of my mind is the fact that Kaido could land a knockout blow on Luffy who has future sight. This means Kaido is so fast Luffy's future sight couldn't see or couldn't counter the hit. If Luffy with future sight and bound man armament Haki could be battered so utterly, why are the Scabbards still standing? Seems so inconsistent.
I'll like to add that for three of the Scabbards, it's been only a few months since Oda died. What has changed so much that they couldn't take Kaido down then? Oden had gotten in a powerful hit, before he was taken down. Could they have swarmed Kaido and finished him off then?
Lastly, if Admirals of the world government are so wary of Wano's samurais, how did Kaido manage take hold of the place this whole time. Shouldn't there have been many other samurai as strong or even stronger than Oden's retainers? Why didn't they help Oden fight an invader and a false ruler like Kaido and Orochi?
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
So far Kaido has been one of the most flawed villain I've ever come across. He's a muscle head drunk who doesn't seem to think too far ahead. His crew are drawn to him based on his revered power and they fight each other to get ahead. He's also suicidal for no reason explained reason except that he cannot die. He's hoping that he can die in the biggest conflagration by starting the biggest war. He doesn't seem to even care about the one piece except that it enables him in his quest to die. Maybe a back story will help flesh out this weird character.
--- Update From New Post Merge ---
I'd like to add that his killing of Orochi, after 20 years or more working together, over a very flimsy argument, is simply crazy. What type of character beheads an ally who's proven true all these years just like that? It doesn't make any sense. Kaido is truly weird.
Croc or Enel would never.
Wanna see the "ancient civilization destroyed" thing done really well? FFXIV did a great take on it. The bar's high for One Piece to beat.
I know that constant criticism of this story can become toxic and I understand it's not welcome here. For some reason, I find that I comment mostly when I feel the story is becoming inconsistent. Sometimes I'm wrong and I'm happy when Oda confounds me with his brilliance. I always try to keep my comments civil and I do not bash anyone. I'd like to say that I mean no harm and I'm only just stating my view.
I found it interesting that someone here asked Joyboy: if he had so much of a critical view of One Piece, why doesn't he stop reading it? If I may, I'd like to answer that based on my own experience. I loved Naruto but I left it when the resurrections started. I liked bleach until after Aizen when I couldn't make any sense of it anymore. I liked Demon Slayer until
! . So if One Piece becomes incongruous, I'll have to stop reading it. I guess it's the dread of that happening that makes me critique any inconveniences I see. It is my prayer and biggest wish that Oda keeps writing this epic and amazing story well so that I have something to look forward to every other week. It is one of my greatest joys to read a fulfilling chapter of One Piece. But I will stop reading it if it stops making sense. So far, nothing close to that has happened and I trust Oda can carry his story till the end successful.
Polite criticism
Reading through this thread was a chore. I lost the will to comment on a chapter that I've been aching to read, but the latest chapter threads have become too toxic for me. I'm glad the rest of the manga section is still kind of normal though. Anyway, I felt like I had to at least leave a reply regarding your comment. Thank you for presenting some criticism in a polite way which invokes actual discussion. Chapter threads shouldn't be about revering GOda nor about bashing the series on and on. There is enough tribalism in the current political environment already, we don't need it in our little escape from reality that is One Piece (and AP). Presenting things we like and things we don't like and explaining our reasons for it is the way to go. Trying to understand other points of view and engaging in polite discussion is the way to go. Keep it up!
I think I won't have enough time to properly comment this chapter, so I'll just leave my main thoughts on it: it felt so good to have OP back in my weekly routine! There is just no other series in Jump that can compare. And this chapter was pure visual poetry. The panelling was better than usual, really nice to see. Having a chapter mostly focused on a single scene can really make a difference. I hope Oda does more of this and less Marineford/Dressrosa skipping around. With that said, I'm glad with the performance the scabbards have shown, but I'm more than ready for Kaido to put them back in their place. It's going to feel soooo good when Luffy finally reaches the top of the dome just for Kaido to "kill" Kin'emon right at the same time. I can already picture it.
I liked Demon Slayer until
! Didn't that literally happened right before
! ?
But anyway, as far as I can see, Kaido hasn't really been serious so far, not completely.
The fight itself is nothing spectacular to me. Might as well be a montage sequence. Can't really get excited about it.
Dont you think the Scabbars managed to reopen Kaido's chest scar (first opened by Oden)?
I wish the Scabbards would go against all expectations and actually defeat Kaido. Oda wants to be unpredictable, so let them finish what they started.
Doesn't Zoro has a sword able to cut Kaido's skin? Maybe the scabbar need some help from him. I mean it'd be nice if a strawhat and Zoro (and not Luffy) defeat Kaido (to move away of Luffy-centered plot in the final fights).
The chapter was really nice both in storrytelling structure panelong and in visual.
I wonder if Oda gave us this flashback because he realised a lot of his readers misjudge the scabbards strength. It's a pity he couldn't show us before so that it was a bit more natural
Isn't it a case of coherent plot vs cool fight to draw… and Oda chooses cool fith to draw? I really don't care much about if it looks not so natural; as you say it's a relly nice chapter in all aspects...
It's in the new anime opening. The black and white diamonds are inverted, and they're brown now instead of black. I was similarly disappointed, I was hoping for a brown thing with bright orange diamonds or something but… settle for a blue cape I guess.
This is the most disappointing thing. I'd been anticipating his new colors since his reappearance and figured he might have a darker color to go with his reverse colored diamonds assuming the outer-most diamond would be white. That looks mostly yellow with a bit of orange even though he just wore a yellow one in Totland. I think a dark purple would have looked nice and gone well with his skin color.
I guess the subject is unavoidable, so I'll give my opinion which nobody cares.
Consistency
Readers have very different ideas of how power level works in One Piece. For some people, the stronger character always wins and, more importantly, they always have an intimidating performance. This interpretation stems from moments in the past when top tiers showed absolute dominance (like Kizaru in Sabaody), although it must be said that those scenes happened for the best interest of the plot. Nevertheless, I'll agree that Oda will most likely make the stronger prevail in every duel (except if it's a Luffy fight). That said, it's not true that things are always so one sided, and there are many moments when things didn't happen like that.
Marineford is the biggest example. At the end of that battle, only two named characters died despite the fact that everybody fought against everybody. That means that the strongest couldn't really subjugate the weaker.
So the yonkou didn't beat the admirals who didn't beat the commanders. Oh sorry, Akainu killed Ace, but we know how and why that happened. Aokiji couldn't best Ace though.
Marineford is not the only occasion. There are many characters who were hard to beat despite their power level. Fox, Perona, Sugar, Jora, Law, Moria, the priests from Skypiea, and so forth. And it also happened that allies could stall stronger antagonists too.
The main thing is that there are a lot of tactics in One Piece. Fights tend to play out considering the type of ability people have, not to mention little moments when minor characters do something useful, like when Mr. 3 stopped Magellan, or when Crocodile stalled Akainu, or the Strawhats doing shenanigans throughout the series. Besides tactics, circunstance also plays a role. While Jimbe and Robin performed a surprise combo on Big Mom, Queen alone bit both Luffy and Zoro and spat them on the floor, lol.
It's pretty clear to me that the weaker can hold a fight against a stronger opponent. What's weird to me is the opposite, actually. I was personally disappointed when Kaido one shotted Luffy in their first encounter, which felt contrived for the sake of raising the stakes and making it more awesome.
Fights in One Piece can happen in many different ways even if the strongest will win at the end. What matters is to see how it happens and evaluate by the coreography.
Kaido vs the Scabbards definitely doesn't betray my interpretation how fights happen in One Piece. The scabbards are nine really strong people who were shown to be on par with the Yonkou Commanders, and sometimes even above them (Sulong cat and dog)… and right now they are having the fight of their lives, and performing a lot of tactical stuff. That's a big deal! And despite all that Kaido will win, damn! Can you even imagine Luffy holding up against all nine of them? lol
Plot
One thing that should always be remembered, like it or not, is that fights in One Piece are always driven by plot. Oda is not playing a D&D campaign and throwing dices according to the characters' stats. For some readers this might be the superior form of storytelling, but that's not the author's intention for this series. Oda draws his fights for the sake of spectacle and drama and emotion and to accomplish the narrative beats of his stories.
That doesn't mean that he'll blatantly ignore power levels, or that everything is plot armor and asspull, but Oda will squeeze and stretch the fight in all direction if it's cooler or more dramatic or more spectacular. As I said before, you have to evaluate it according to the coreography, if it's convincing or cool enough for you.
Even when the main characters can't defeat the villains, it's always for the sake of plot and the consequences are proposital. Aokiji scared them, but didn't kill anyone. The Strawhats needed to be defeated in Sabaody. Ace needed to die. It's all according to plan.
Personally, I like this way better.
The Yonkou
I decided to write this topic because the Yonkou are the biggest targets of controversy. The thing is: it's true that the story hyped the Yonkou, but I think that many fans hyped themselves a hundred times more than what was asked for, honestly.
They were presented as the strongest pirates alive, an elite of characters who are the strongest in the world alongside a few others. However, for some fans it's not enough for them to be stronger than other great pirates, or to be twice stronger, of thrice stronger, or five times stronger, which is more than enough. In the eyes of these fans, the Yonkou have to be 1000x stronger than anything else and be god-like creatures on Earth who shouldn't be touched.
I don't know how people got there, or how Kaido and Big Mom could be seen as below the concept of Yonkou. I look at them and I see the power, the crew and the territory, and how far above every other pirate they are. They take blows, but they bounce back.
Tension
What many argue is that the biggest problem is that, besides being Yonkou, Kaido and Big Mom are villains, therefore their lack of efficiency kills the tension and makes for badwriting. Their premise is that villains should be unfallible until the last fight, otherwise it's boring and disappointing.
Well, this might be your personal criteria, so bad luck for you, I guess, but this is not a writing rule which dictates good and bad writing. Making unfallible villains is common practice because it works (meaning: people like it and get invested), and it's an easy thing to write. The drawback is that it can become dull or too obvious or cliche. One Piece has done this before with success, though. Crocodile, Enel and Doflamingo were semi-unfallible villains who are adored by the fanbase. Crocodile is a personal favorite of mine.
However, what's funny to me when I see this argument is that tension in One Piece never worked with me ever since the beginning of the series when I realised that the good guys would never fail (Ace and Sabaody were the exception, but for plot reasons). I don't really get all nervous and impressed when the villains are portrayed as invicible monsters since I see through the facade, so it's not like I'm losing anything when Big Mom and Kaido started to take some hits that have minimal consequences to their physical integrity. But this is only my subjectivity, so good for you who can get all hyped up with villains in OP who look unbeatable.
It would be better for me if I felt tension in OP, of course, but that's not all there is to me. In case you're wondering, the lack of tension doesn't kill my vibe as long as Oda delivers in other aspects, like a great visual depiction of the fight, or creativity for the composition of the means by which the heroes overcome their enemies, or the showcase of emotion in the battle, or how the fight beautifully interweaves with the drama outside of it.
And there's another thing that I disagree, which is that Big Mom and Kaido taking blows make them look terrible. Once again, this is subjective, so I accept your feelings, but I simply don't see it like that. But I'm minority here, since that's how our anime community rolls nowadays, especially seeing how people love to spam Ws and Ls all the time. You can even see it affecting the Strawhats and how much they are valued by the community each arc according to their Ws and Ls.
What's interesting is that Oda could easily have written Big Mom and Kaido very differently, because it's merely a matter of choice. It's interesting how deliberately he chooses to make the Yonkou suffer all these blows before bouncing back again. Funny.
Stakes
Are the stakes gone now?
Well, I don't think so. Unlike most people, I do see Kaido as a really impressive villain in terms of power, especially because he'll defeat all the Scabbards. You see, if Kaido just wipes the floor with them easily, it doesn't look like a feat, because the samurai will look like unmemorable ants in a forgettable fight. However, if they look impressive and powerful, then beating them start to look as a real demonstration of power during an iconic battle. Good stuff!
Obviously, my impression of Kaido is largely based on how I imagine that things will play out next, and I believe Kaido will turn the tables defeat the scabbards in beautiful fashion. To me, he's just like a raid boss from a mmorpg, which is quite amazing.
Funnily enough, despite all the flak he is receiving from the fandom, at the end of Wano I think Kaido will be a villain very similar to Freeza from Dragon Ball, who is one the most iconic villains in shonen history. For those who don't recall, Freeza was introduced as the strongest being in the universe with a staggering ki of 513 thousand, which was many times above anyone else… and then he could double his power level any time he transformed, and he could transform 3 times, and then keep raising his ki in his final form. But despite such a huge power creep, we kept seeing Piccolo, Gohan and Vegeta managing to hurt him and forcing Freeza to unleash his next form until the very last one, which could only be matched by Ssj Goku.
That's what I imagine will happen with Kaido. He'll just keep evolving as he shows his next form as the heroes keep surpassing his expactations. Dragon form, human form, hybrid form, awakening, who knows what else… just insane!
So what I can tell you guys is to wait to see the full picture. Cheers!
Sorry for the off-topic post but did someone just spoil Demon Slayer in the thread? OH C'MON.
"Yes, I'm only bones, but that's because I have an interest… in dieting."
-Gentleman Skeleton Brook
Dont you think the Scabbars managed to reopen Kaido's chest scar (first opened by Oden)?
Doesn't Zoro has a sword able to cut Kaido's skin? Maybe the scabbar need some help from him. I mean it'd be nice if a strawhat and Zoro (and not Luffy) defeat Kaido (to move away of Luffy-centered plot in the final fights)
Its not the sword that matters, its the advanced Haki but I am sure the sword has a part to play. Inuarashi's no name sword is able to pierce Kaido. In my native language we have a saying " Vallavanuku Pullum Aayudham" (translation: For a skilled man/expert, even a grass straw is a weapon).
The funny thing about people questioning how scabbards can cause this much damage to Oden when they were not previously portrayed as such monsters, that's the same thing Kaido is also wondering lol. I am sure he is going to shrug it off in the next chapter or 2 and they decimate the scabbards and Luffy vs Kaido starts by chapter 1000.
Its not the sword that matters, its the advanced Haki but I am sure the sword has a part to play. Inuarashi's no name sword is able to pierce Kaido. In my native language we have a saying " Vallavanuku Pullum Aayudham" (translation: For a skilled man/expert, even a grass straw is a weapon).
But the sword knows if you have the spirit to handle it. It also has a spirit.
@ theackwardstation
The difference between Primebeard and Sickbeard is quite huge. I can reread the arc if absolutely necessary, but I'm fairly positive I remember Marco saying his age and/or sickness was slowing him down.
Contrast it to the "Pirate King" level Haki we saw in the Oden flashback, the difference seems very significant.
Prime Garp is also very different from Old Garp strength-wise.
Croc or Enel would never.
Wanna see the "ancient civilization destroyed" thing done really well? FFXIV did a great take on it. The bar's high for One Piece to beat.
@ theackwardstation
The difference between Primebeard and Sickbeard is quite huge. I can reread the arc if absolutely necessary, but I'm fairly positive I remember Marco saying his age and/or sickness was slowing him down.
Contrast it to the "Pirate King" level Haki we saw in the Oden flashback, the difference seems very significant.
Prime Garp is also very different from Old Garp strength-wise.
Yes, there is a difference between Primebeard and Sickbeard as many remarks were made about that (Whitebeard himself mentioned that he was not the strongest anymore), but "quite significant" is interpretation. Anyway, this is speculation, and a minor point of my topic on consistency which shouldn't hold much weight.
Regardless, there is one thing that I want to say in regards to this subject: Whitebeard was not at his strongest anymore, but he was still considered a proper Yonkou even during his sick older years, and however weaker he was compared to his prime, he was still worth of the title of Emperor. Which means that we can measure the Yonkou using Sickbeard as a parameter of power. To think that the other Yonkou should be expected to be stronger than Sickbeard is a logical fallacy.
Edit: not that you're implying that.
Yes, there is a difference between Primebeard and Sickbeard as many remarks were made about that (Whitebeard himself mentioned that he was not the strongest anymore), but "quite significant" is interpretation. Anyway, this is speculation, and a minor point of my topic on consistency which shouldn't hold much weight.
Regardless, there is one thing that I want to say in regards to this subject: Whitebeard was not at his strongest anymore, but he was still considered a proper Yonkou even during his sick older years, and however weaker he was compared to his prime, he was still worth of the title of Emperor. Which means that we can measure the Yonkou using Sickbeard as a parameter of power. To think that the other Yonkou should be expected to be stronger than Sickbeard is a logical fallacy.
I wasn't trying to disprove your entire argument or anything. You get a lot of leeway from me since you're always professional and non-toxic.
I more just saw the Whitebeard thing as interesting.
We definitely agree that Sickbeard is worthy of the Yonkou title. So what would that make Primebeard?
What fallacy?
Croc or Enel would never.
Wanna see the "ancient civilization destroyed" thing done really well? FFXIV did a great take on it. The bar's high for One Piece to beat.
I wasn't trying to disprove your entire argument or anything. You get a lot of leeway from me since you're always professional and non-toxic.
I more just saw the Whitebeard thing as interesting.
Before you replied to me, I had just edited my post saying that you were not implying that. 
I was just foreseeing an hypothetical line of thought in regards to Primebeard and Sickbeard which could misleadingly consider Sickbeard to be below the Yonkou standard (and Primebeard to be the point of reference), concluding that we should expect more of the other Emperors, like they should be at a similar level of Primebeard. I just wanted to point out that this would be a fallacy.
We definitely agree that Sickbeard is worthy of the Yonkou title. So what would that make Primebeard?
Primebeard is "Pirate King" level, or just below that. He was the strongest man in the world, after all. One could also say something like "Super Yonkou" level.
Before you replied to me, I had just edited my post saying that you were not implying that.
Primebeard is "Pirate King" level, or just below that. He was the strongest man in the world, after all. One could also say something like "Super Yonkou" level.
We agree then! I consider the Prime Old Generation (Roger, Garp, Sengoku, Whitebeard) to be an entire level or more above Yonkou.
Chinjao wasn't kidding about the old generation, they're insane. So if we assume Luffy was tacitly agreeing to Chinjao's speech of surpassing Roger…
Good God. The road ahead is still very daunting. And the fact that Garp STILL considered him a fledgling, 900 chapters in.
Croc or Enel would never.
Wanna see the "ancient civilization destroyed" thing done really well? FFXIV did a great take on it. The bar's high for One Piece to beat.
We agree then! I consider the Prime Old Generation (Roger, Garp, Sengoku, Whitebeard) to be an entire level or more above Yonkou.
Chinjao wasn't kidding about the old generation, they're insane. So if we assume Luffy was tacitly agreeing to Chinjao's speech of surpassing Roger…
Good God. The road ahead is still very daunting. And the fact that Garp STILL considered him a fledgling, 900 chapters in.
What about Akainu?
What about Akainu?
Akainu's hard to accurately place.
I think the Vivre Cards said his fruit is the most offensively powerful?
So his raw damage outout in a 1v1 could be the highest?
But I consider Blackbeard's fruits to be the world destroyer fruits.
So his widescale damage is higher.
Akainu is close to prime Roger in my opinion but not quite there.
Croc or Enel would never.
Wanna see the "ancient civilization destroyed" thing done really well? FFXIV did a great take on it. The bar's high for One Piece to beat.
Akainu's hard to accurately place.
I think the Vivre Cards said his fruit is the most offensively powerful?
So his raw damage outout in a 1v1 could be the highest?
But I consider Blackbeard's fruits to be the world destroyer fruits.
So his widescale damage is higher.Akainu is close to prime Roger in my opinion but not quite there.
My line of thought is there should be a modern Marine who's at the same level of prime Garp and Sengoku. Akainu is a good bet. The guy is a monster.
He's not old generation.
I'm aware.
Tension
What many argue is that the biggest problem is that, besides being Yonkou, Kaido and Big Mom are villains, therefore their lack of efficiency kills the tension and makes for badwriting. Their premise is that villains should be unfallible until the last fight, otherwise it's boring and disappointing.Well, this might be your personal criteria, so bad luck for you, I guess, but this is not a writing rule which dictates good and bad writing. Making unfallible villains is common practice because it works (meaning: people like it and get invested), and it's an easy thing to write. The drawback is that it can become dull or too obvious or cliche. One Piece has done this before with success, though. Crocodile, Enel and Doflamingo were semi-unfallible villains who are adored by the fanbase. Crocodile is a personal favorite of mine.
However, what's funny to me when I see this argument is that tension in One Piece never worked with me ever since the beginning of the series when I realised that the good guys would never fail (Ace and Sabaody were the exception, but for plot reasons). I don't really get all nervous and impressed when the villains are portrayed as invicible monsters since I see through the facade, so it's not like I'm losing anything when Big Mom and Kaido started to take some hits that have minimal consequences to their physical integrity. But this is only my subjectivity, so good for you who can get all hyped up with villains in OP who look unbeatable.
It would be better for me if I felt tension in OP, of course, but that's not all there is to me. In case you're wondering, the lack of tension doesn't kill my vibe as long as Oda delivers in other aspects, like a great visual depiction of the fight, or creativity for the composition of the means by which the heroes overcome their enemies, or the showcase of emotion in the battle, or how the fight beautifully interweaves with the drama outside of it.
For me the tension is interesting when I cannot foresee how the heroes can get out of a tough situation and what Oda has in mind. There was such tension almist all along Whole Cake Island or at the beginning of the Onigashima battle when everything was desperate and that tension is what urge you to want to know what happens next. I know that the heroes will get out of it like you said but I don't know how.
Well You could also say that I don't know what will happens next in the current situation. Will Kaidout beat all the scabbards in one big swoop, will it be a stale match until Luffy arrive ? The difference is that I'm not really interested in knowing that much. Like Jabra said, Ulti Paypay vs Usopp Nami sounds as much entertaining
Sorry for the off-topic post but did someone just spoil Demon Slayer in the thread? OH C'MON.
The series has ended 6 months ago and it was not spoiled that much at least not really more than the other series
So Scabbards are cutting Kaido with Ryuo at cost of their life force? That would be high cost and high reward technique and would tie nicely with Samurai talking about dying fighting Kaido and taking him with them to afterlife thanks to their Ryuo.
I have also been waiting to continue with just the anime and that was a spoiler I didn't expect at all.
Yea that was a real dick move spoiling that.
Funny how people think they can stay as anime only, Like 1 years behind mangas, and not get spoilers. Like even on social media it's so easy to get spoiled.
Big deal, he spoiled it, I'm sure he didn't do it maliciously. Sh*t happens, now forget it and move on.
They just went with SCROLLING JUTSU?! URGH! I REALLY HATE OFFICIAL ENGLISH TRANSLATIONS! Now westerners think it is just a simple ninjutsu when in japanese Oda reference it as a Devil Fruit when he calls it Maki Maki no Jutsu.
don't think that's enough to say it's a df ability..especially since ninjutsu is actually a thing in the op world apparently
@uniaka:
Funny how people think they can stay as anime only, Like 1 years behind mangas, and not get spoilers. Like even on social media it's so easy to get spoiled.
If I was on the Demon Slayer thread, or subreddit, or watching anime videos, I'd expect spoilers, but not in a One Piece thread.
I think the biggest takeaway that people who are upset at Kaido's portrayal in the last several chapters are not considering is the Scabbard's sudden use of Ryuo and their ability to inflict damage to Kaido. This is the second time that we are getting Kaido's thoughts on what is happening to him in real time, even he himself is confused which hints towards that what the Scabbard's are currently doing is unsustainable/one time event.
!
!
I do not know what Oda is currently setting up but it wouldn't be out of left field in my opinion for it to be revealed that under certain dire circumstances like this one, where the resolve of the Scabbards is so strong, that they are willing to literally die before they strike down Kaido that Ryuo could possibly be temporarily inherited. (Perhaps Oden's reference to his "soul living on" in this panel has an additional meaning to just his will being passed on to his followers and children.)
!
I don't know exactly, but I'm spitballing here for possible reasons because of Kaido's dual internal monologues. Kaido's been around the block, it is very clear to me that Oda demonstrating twice that Kaido being damaged and being confused about it is abnormal.
Oh I didn't know. I stopped reading it immediately
! .
I think the biggest takeaway that people who are upset at Kaido's portrayal in the last several chapters are not considering is the Scabbard's sudden use of Ryuo and their ability to inflict damage to Kaido. This is the second time that we are getting Kaido's thoughts on what is happening to him in real time, even he himself is confused which hints towards that what the Scabbard's are currently doing is unsustainable/one time event.
! https://i.postimg.cc/g2Y5zfbq/kaido1.png
! https://i.postimg.cc/L86CKLjx/kaido2.pngI do not know what Oda is currently setting up but it wouldn't be out of left field in my opinion for it to be revealed that under certain dire circumstances like this one, where the resolve of the Scabbards is so strong, that they are willing to literally die before they strike down Kaido that Ryuo could possibly be temporarily inherited. (Perhaps Oden's reference to his "soul living on" in this panel has an additional meaning to just his will being passed on to his followers and children.)
I don't know exactly, but I'm spitballing here for possible reasons because of Kaido's dual internal monologues. Kaido's been around the block, it is very clear to me that Oda demonstrating twice that Kaido being damaged and being confused about it is abnormal.
i have been thinking about kaido's inner thoughts as well.
ryuo means you inflict damage to the users body from the inside to outside, and one can achieve that due to their haki (and maybe haki sorrounding them?) directly flowing through their own body into the enemies body, right?
from that i kinda get the vibe that kaido is kinda "letting" it happen because he still has alot of respect towards oden (oden lives on in HIS mind as well)
it makes it easier for the scabbards with their clear goal to avenge oden (thinking and being driving by him) to get that flow of haki going - especially because they are doing this as a group!
and btw it is still a 9 vs. 1 fight, sure kaido should have "some" trouble, he can't be the beast that deflects everything with ease
dunno why some people expect him to be like that. i at least don't want him to be invincible at all, i really enjoyed the fight so far.
this makes oden's sacrifice worth more or understandable, because he trusted his vassals. that trust is pushing them to their limits now.
One could also say something like "Super Yonkou" level.
Is anyone else envisioning Whitebeard with a glowing yellow mustache
ryou seems like another messy concept in the already messy haki.
From what i understood, it is one of the first move Rayleigh shows Luffy on the training island. Why didn't he teach him that move during the time skip ? since it sounds so powerful is kind of a mistery.
Oden seems to have a special ryou which allowed him to hurt Kaidou but the one Luffy learned doesn't seem special at all.
If anybody with enough haki level can learn it, why was it never use to hurt the yonkous. The 9 scabbards show us it is possible…
Well let's put all those thoughts in the haki box, forget about it and let's continue to enjoy the story
@uniaka:
Funny how people think they can stay as anime only, Like 1 years behind mangas, and not get spoilers. Like even on social media it's so easy to get spoiled.
Yeah well, that's not everyone.
Like I know people who watch kimetsu anime and just go on their lives. Not everyone is actively in anime/manga community.
It doesn't even matter how significant an event might be in context.
That's not an issue, yeah like Blackbeard is a bad guy isn't that big of a deal in context except it actually can be and spoils the mood out of a lot of the first scene when they first met.
Let's not pretend the Yaiba community wasn't discussing the shit out of that moment either.
If you're not affected, sure it's no big deal but don't project your "this is all right for me" to someone else.
Not particularly directing it at you because you've made a good point regardless.
Just annoyed with the "it's ok" attitude here, no, get over yourselves.
ryou seems like another messy concept in the already messy haki.
From what i understood, it is one of the first move Rayleigh shows Luffy on the training island. Why didn't he teach him that move during the time skip ? since it sounds so powerful is kind of a mistery.
Oden seems to have a special ryou which allowed him to hurt Kaidou but the one Luffy learned doesn't seem special at all.
If anybody with enough haki level can learn it, why was it never use to hurt the yonkous. The 9 scabbards show us it is possible…Well let's put all those thoughts in the haki box, forget about it and let's continue to enjoy the story
Didn't Rayleigh say that he taught Luffy all he could pass on to him at that stage, and that he needed more real life experience to advance beyond that? As for ryuo itself it doesn't seem all that different from what Luffy is learning, it gives you a means to bypass defences, how well you strike beyond that aspect seem more linked to all the things that affect your overall state of strength and ambition like focus, emotional state etc etc. But yeah it feels a bit complicated at times
I guess the subject is unavoidable, so I'll give my opinion.
For what it's worth, I completely subscribe to this way you describe power levels. Starting with Whitebeard at Marineford, the strength of Yonkou (and maybe One Piece villains at large) has always been that they can and do take massive hits but still come back for more. This is what makes them frightening for me and I will take it any day over the untouchable villain who one-shots everyone until some last-minute power-up reverses the situation, rince and repeat ad nauseam. One-sided power ratios do exist with low-class enemies, but I like how the top contenders are clearly all in the same league where no-one is completely out of reach.
Also yes, the Scabbards were impressive this week and I can't fathom how anyone can think what happened makes Kaido any less impressive. He is going toe-to-toe with 9 top-class fighters and will likely make short work of them within a couple chapters. What would Luffy do faced with 9 Katakuris ?
ryou seems like another messy concept in the already messy haki.
From what i understood, it is one of the first move Rayleigh shows Luffy on the training island. Why didn't he teach him that move during the time skip ? since it sounds so powerful is kind of a mistery.
Oden seems to have a special ryou which allowed him to hurt Kaidou but the one Luffy learned doesn't seem special at all.
If anybody with enough haki level can learn it, why was it never use to hurt the yonkous. The 9 scabbards show us it is possible…Well let's put all those thoughts in the haki box, forget about it and let's continue to enjoy the story
Ryou is just haki .
Luffy was taught basic haki and then had to get better from there from using it more , being in fights etc etc .
It also clear that not everyone can use it to that level since hyo even talk about it being beyond what he can do .
Didn't Rayleigh say that he taught Luffy all he could pass on to him at that stage, and that he needed more real life experience to advance beyond that? As for ryuo itself it doesn't seem all that different from what Luffy is learning, it gives you a means to bypass defences, how well you strike beyond that aspect seem more linked to all the things that affect your overall state of strength and ambition like focus, emotional state etc etc. But yeah it feels a bit complicated at times
It's the same thing as haki , so yeah it's only a matter of how good you are at it and along with everything else you mention .
@uniaka:
Funny how people think they can stay as anime only, Like 1 years behind mangas, and not get spoilers. Like even on social media it's so easy to get spoiled.
Even if someone isn't following the anime, they might be following the official volume releases, which are ALSO behind.
As I don't read the Demon Slayer thread, and don't follow it on reddit or youtube, its been incredibly easy to avoid spoilers thus far. Same for Promised Neverland which despite being four years old I knew literally nothing about until it showed up on Netflix. My wife knows nothing about where My Hero is going even though I'm caught up on the manga.
The Nausicaa manga finished in 1994 but I bet you have no idea what the ending is unless you've read it. And if someone told you the ending, do you know what happens to Yupa or Kushana or Teto? Even if you watched the movie you have no idea. Do you know what happens in Akira after the movie ends? That manga finished in 1990. Do you know the ending to Outlanders, that wrapped in 87! Heck, I've actually read those and I barely remember because it's been so long, whenever I read them again it'll probably be at least a little fresh!
If you're not following a series' community staying spoiler free is generally pretty easy.
Someone has to go out of their way to post a massive spoiler in a completely unrelated location to ruin something like that. Let alone doubling down and posting it twice after people have already complained.
Show some courtesy and assume spoiler policy for something if its not related to the current subject. If its something that has long since passed into public knowledge decades ago like what Rosebud is to Citizen Kane, or who Luke SKywalker's father is, that's fine, but that's not the standard.
For what it's worth, I completely subscribe to this way you describe power levels. Starting with Whitebeard at Marineford, the strength of Yonkou (and maybe One Piece villains at large) has always been that they can and do take massive hits but still come back for more. This is what makes them frightening for me and I will take it any day over the untouchable villain who one-shots everyone until some last-minute power-up reverses the situation, rince and repeat ad nauseam. One-sided power ratios do exist with low-class enemies, but I like how the top contenders are clearly all in the same league where no-one is completely out of reach.
Also yes, the Scabbards were impressive this week and I can't fathom how anyone can think what happened makes Kaido any less impressive. He is going toe-to-toe with 9 top-class fighters and will likely make short work of them within a couple chapters. What would Luffy do faced with 9 Katakuris ?
How are those guys nine Katakuri's ? Katakuri would mop the floor with them.
ryou seems like another messy concept in the already messy haki.
From what i understood, it is one of the first move Rayleigh shows Luffy on the training island. Why didn't he teach him that move during the time skip ? since it sounds so powerful is kind of a mistery.
Oden seems to have a special ryou which allowed him to hurt Kaidou but the one Luffy learned doesn't seem special at all.
If anybody with enough haki level can learn it, why was it never use to hurt the yonkous. The 9 scabbards show us it is possible…Well let's put all those thoughts in the haki box, forget about it and let's continue to enjoy the story
Yeah I definitely feel like the way haki and the specific uses and levels of proficiency haven't been established as concretely as they could be, but that could also be a part of Oda's storytelling, in that leaving things intentionally ambiguous will leave the door open for any paths he would like to pursue if a new idea arises.
I always go back and think about the use of so called "invisible haki", and to this day I can't really put my thumb on it if this is an established concept. Characters will say they are using Haki and display no black hardening, but then there are flashback panels like the one with Rayleigh in Saobody post timeskip displaying the hardening, but in the original chapter he isn't. Even a note saying that you can't see Hardening without Observation would clear something like this up, thus it being invisble to the reader Pre-timeskip. Is it for the sake of saving time by not wasting panels by showing a character hardening? Or does he want to just keep us intrigued by being intentionally vague, I don't know.
I think Rayleigh didn't teach Luffy Ryou in the beginning, was because Luffy was a complete novice to the basics, and to achieve the next level he needs the in battle experience that you can only get in the New World. Also letting Luffy figure things out for himself is good for his own development, if he's going to be the Pirate King he needs to overcome obstacles like everyone else, and not be handed everything so easily.
And temporarily hurting a Yonkou is no big deal to be fair, they are used to never being touched because of their Ryou. Just because they can put a slash or two on him now doesn't mean they can defend his attacks with the same proficiency. I'm sure Kaido will bounce back up next chapter and knock out the scabbards, and that will set the stage for when Luffy and co reach the top of the skull.
@Joy:
How are those guys nine Katakuri's ? Katakuri would mop the floor with them.
That would be very different fight .
Hell half the things that happen with luffy in that fight won't happen in a 9 vs 1 and because of the scabbards haki .
next chapter kaido gets beat up again
Scabbards are like admirals! What would Luffy do faced with 9 Akainus ?
*994 Kaido gets beat up again"
Scabbards are like Roger! What would Luffy do faced with 9 Whitebeards ?
I think Cat, Dog, Ashura Doji, Denjiro and Izo were all portrayed as one the level of a Yonkou commander. Izo is one, Asura Doji fought evenly against one, Cat and Dog easily beat Jack in their Sulong forms, and Denjiro evenly fought against Zoro, who is at the very least close to Yonko commander level. Doesn't mean that each of them could beat Katakuri in a fight, but I do think they would at least put up a decent fight. Now, if three or four of them fought against him together, that's a whole different story.
Then you have Kinemon, Raizo, Kawamatsu and O-Kiku, who were all portrayed as, at the very least, decent and capable fighters, with some of them having very tricky abilities that come in quite handy in a fight against Kaido.
And now you have all 9 of those guys fighting together, against an enemy they've trained to fight for literal decades, in the fight of their lives. Yeah, sorry, there is no inconsistency here, it's completely believable that they would at the very least put up a good fight and get some hits in.
I think Cat, Dog, Ashura Doji, Denjiro and Izo were all portrayed as one the level of a Yonkou commander. Izo is one, Asura Doji fought evenly against one, Cat and Dog easily beat Jack in their Sulong forms, and Denjiro evenly fought against Zoro, who is at the very least close to Yonko commander level. Doesn't mean that each of them could beat Katakuri in a fight, but I do think they would at least put up a decent fight. Now, if three or four of them fought against him together, that's a whole different story.
Then you have Kinemon, Raizo, Kawamatsu and O-Kiku, who were all portrayed as, at the very least, decent and capable fighters, with some of them having very tricky abilities that come in quite handy in a fight against Kaido.
And now you have all 9 of those guys fighting together, against an enemy they've trained to fight for literal decades, in the fight of their lives. Yeah, sorry, there is no inconsistency here, it's completely believable that they would at the very least put up a good fight and get some hits in.
Yonko are much stronger than Yonko commanders. Don't know why you guys try to pass off that Yonko commanders are even close to their captains. Kaido one shot Luffy who individually is stronger than each scabbard.
Izu isn't in the top 3 of WB. He was far back down in the pecking order. He was a nobody in MF.
Bringing Kinemon, Raizo and Kiku as credible fighters is outright wrong. Zoro being close to Yonko commander leel again doesn;t mean anything. Look how Kaido and Big Mom have treated such level.
