That's not what they said. They just said you cannot just constantly bash the series on a fan forum.
Especially when most of it comes from a fake headcanon that you both refuse to change and will never snap out of.
Chapter 991: Let Us Die!!!
-
-
We know for a fact that kaido has been defeated or captured numerous times, So it’s not the dude is completely undefeatable.
Next is your scaling of kinemon. Apart from law who has arguably a hax df power. Who else did we see that kinemon couldn’t defeat or even fight? We also know that 10 ppl went up against kaido’s previous army and almost won. 8 of those ppl were up against kaidos army are now facing kaido and kinemon was one of them. I’m not gonna day kinemon is some super strong samurai but it’s clear your estimation of how strong he is was misplaced.
Not only that, we’ve seen ashura doji, cat, dog, fish and denjiro display some actual combat prowess and then we know one is a white beard commander. We know they’re strong but bc kinemon didn’t do much or have the chances to do much you assumed he sucked.–- Update From New Post Merge ---
I thought about him too. He’d fit the mold perfectly. But poison and weaponry seem to be his thing.
If Kinemon's Haki was always supposed to be this strong then Law wouldn't be a problem. Also Kinemon wouldn't be in such awe when Zoro cut Pica. Luffy also never called him strong like he has done with the mink kings and others.
Oda retconned his strength. It's that simple.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
That's not what they said. They just said you cannot just constantly bash the series on a fan forum.
Especially when most of it comes from a fake headcanon that you both refuse to change and will never snap out of.So it's a headcannon that the scabbards always get the better of Kaido ? That Kaido has completely failed to present himself as a big threat ? That somehow Oda retconned the samurai strength ? That Big Mom also does nothing else outside of being ridiculed ? All of these are headcannons ?
Chapter as I said was good until the last spread where Kaido failed AGAIN. WSC, highest bounty in the series has failed to even beat a single of of these guys after 6 chapters. And these guys don't give a fuck about him, they treat him like he is some nobody.
-
I have given up on you my man. Your interpretation of the series is so consistently off-base that yes, it's headcanon.
Basically an event will happen, you'll see something like Kaido getting his lip slashed, then in your head it gets warped into it basically being Kaido having his torso ripped in half. I am not saying you think Kaido actually had his torso ripped in half, but you react the same as if it had. It's catastrophism or similar. -
Man, Joy Boy, I'm not trying to ridicule you but basically what you are doing is walking to a house party, everyone is having a nice conversation, while you're dressed as Doflamingo, constantly shouting "MAN THAT KAIDO IS SUCH A LOSER, UNLIKE DOFFY, AM I RIGHT?!?"
People see through that, you know?Oh, to add something more positive:
Did anyone else laugh when Zoro was like, ohh we should team up to Drake, after trying to kill him and Drake was like what is wrong with you people
-
We know already that the Beasts Pirates are a hyper-competitive meritocracy bound more by respect for strength than actual loyalty, so how much of the crew scurries away from their captain in fear?
Maybe yes, but no.
IMO, some of the last few chapters established to me that Kaido's elite underlings truly admire him beyond this theme of "he broke my spirit and now I'm part of this wild jungle bound by the rule of the strong".
Ulti seems to really like Kaido as shown both when she was greeting him and then when she passionately replied to Luffy that Kaido would become Pirate King.
Chapter 990 showed Queen and Who's Who working side by side with a tighter relationship than we could ever have imagined, not only because of previous misdirections between the two, but because that scene subverted what we thought of the crew's dynamic.
And then we have King and Jack who are his closest soldiers. Maybe Queen too.
We still have to see more of the others, but Sasaki looks loyal too. Page One is probably in the same page as his sister. Black Maria wants to be the wife, lol, and that could be genuine and not only a game of power.
Apoo is the one Supernova who may not betray Kaido at the end.
All of them may be competing between themselves to climb higher inside the hierarchy, but not only out of fear and respect, but also because of loyalty and admiration.
-
What I'm thinking is that since they're beast pirates, maybe they function however Oda thinks like a pack of wild animals behave.
Like, the leader cares about his top dogs, but really don't give a shit about the lesser members, or something like that.
-
I have given up on you my man. Your interpretation of the series is so consistently off-base that yes, it's headcanon.
Basically an event will happen, you'll see something like Kaido getting his lip slashed, then in your head it gets warped into it basically being Kaido having his torso ripped in half. I am not saying you think Kaido actually had his torso ripped in half, but you react the same as if it had. It's catastrophism or similar.Vassals of Glory chapter was chapter 987. It's been 5 chapters since Kaido got hurt and the only thing he did was see Jack getting wrecked and when he attacked he got his attack completely nullified and got hurt again. Do you consider that a good showing from the big bad ? We have seen more failures from Kaido than success.
-
What I'm thinking is that since they're beast pirates, maybe they function however Oda thinks like a pack of wild animals behave.
Like, the leader cares about his top dogs, but really don't give a shit about the lesser members, or something like that.
It seems to me that Kaido just really values strength, and derides those he deems weak (he even considered Doflamingo weak, yikes).
Though there could certainly be a hierarchy value thing goin' on. -
It seems to me that Kaido just really values strength, and derides those he deems weak (he even considered Doflamingo weak, yikes).
Though there could certainly be a hierarchy value thing goin' on.Sure because you've always replied to my posts while breaking down my arguments.. Wait, it never happened. You only use some links from reddit to insult me.
-
Yeah, definitely. The way I see Kaido at the minute is like an alcoholic father who is - when sober and in public - supportive of his family, but behind closed doors gets blackout drunk and beats one of them up every few months. Maybe you appreciate his good side when he's showing it, but you can't shake the knowledge that the other side is in there somewhere, and you don't know when it's going to explode again. It's good characterization, but we've seen enough of the asshole side for me to cock an eyebrow at anyone describing his as caring.
I can definitely see the similarity to Doflamingo. I think the subtle difference is that when Doffy sacrificed his lower ranks it felt more calculated than emotional, the exception being the ones who were killed for making fun of Pica. Whereas Kaido, like you said, gets drunk and takes out his own feelings on whoever's standing closest in a much more random and volatile way. I don't know if we've seen enough to say Kaido really cares about anyone other than his elites when sober, but he doesn't seem to surprise murder them unless he's been drinking.
I'm most interested in learning a little more about what his underlings actually think about him. We know already that the Beasts Pirates are a hyper-competitive meritocracy bound more by respect for strength than actual loyalty, so how much of the crew scurries away from their captain in fear? How many secretly hate him and will turn coat as soon as he's overpowered? Who genuinely thinks they could beat him and take his place and what is their plan for getting there? Is there anything in his past that does justify the loyalty of his inner circle? The answers to those questions could go a long way for making Kaido and his relationships with the people around him feel more fleshed out.
My guess is the ONLY one who doesn't fear Kaido even when he's drunk is King. Queen got absolutely petrified at Big Mom when she came back to her senses (meaning her more terrifying mode). So I'll wager a guess that King doesn't fear Kaido drunk or sober. Jack seemed somewhat disturbed by him when he was drunk in the 920s.
Maybe even a little further, maybe the underlings don't fear Kaido when he's "happy drunk" like at Onigashima. But when he's "abusive drunk" I mean yeah, his club can end you or a giant flaming laser beam.
-
So the answer is: Haki does Haki things.
Thank you, I already knew that, but it really is a stretch. There were alternatives, anyway: for instance, what we saw from Denjiro suggested he's a more competent swordsman than Kin'emon.
-
Who doesn't enjoy a little bit of headcannon. My own treasured headcannon is that Apoo the informant has always been a loyal Beast Pirate and will go down with the crew.
-
@Joy:
So basically we can only post good things about the series ?
I;ve never thrown simple one liners. I give my reasons for why I think the series currently isn't good. That doesn;t make me a troll as you guys say.
Here's how CosmicDebris laid some of the guidelines we're talking about down:
Examples of bad behavior:
-
Bashing/insulting flaming members of the board. This includes snide, underhanded, indirect comments. If someone is rude to you, don't retalliate.
You'll get punished along with the first person. -
Character bashing. Yes, there's a difference between criticism and bashing. Example of fair critical opinion: "I don't really like the chivalry aspect of Sanji's character, I think it's a weakness. I'd rather see him overcome it". Example of bashing: "Sanji's chivalrous side sucks and I hate it. It makes him into a pansy weakling and it's not even funny." Also, if someone makes a fair criticism of a character you love, RESPECT it and the person who said it. You can counter it reasonably, not "OMG how dare you speak badly about my favorite character!!"
-
Trolling. What do I mean by trolling? I mean don't post something for the sole purpose that you want to get a "reaction" out of people or goad them into a defensive or offensive stance. Ask yourself what your motivation for posting is before you do it.
-
Excessive bitching/whining/complaining, overall crude behavior. This is more difficult to narrow down in definition, but we frown on people who are just oozing with negativity. YES we respect your right to criticize, to be disappointed with a chapter or the direction of the story, but there are better ways to express that than posting "this chapter sucked" and "Oda's pulling a Kishimoto/Dragonball Z", "DAMN YOU ODA!" "This was really boring and predictable crap". Instead, think and identify what your reasons for your disappointment are and form them into an tangible observation that people can see where you're coming from.
This also includes people complaining about criticism! As with character criticism, respect your fellow board member's opinions and do not resort to inflammatory retorts such as "If you don't like it, stop reading it!" or "you'll just never be satisfied, will you?"
*We're all here because we love One Piece and we want to discuss, theorize, fanboy/fangirl occasionally! Let's all respect one another's differences of opinions and try to actively continue to make this board a fun, intelligent, and overal pleasant place to be.
-
-
Maybe yes, but no.
IMO, some of the last few chapters established to me that Kaido's elite underlings truly admire him beyond this theme of "he broke my spirit and now I'm part of this wild jungle bound by the rule of the strong".
Ulti seems to really like Kaido as shown both when she was greeting him and then when she passionately replied to Luffy that Kaido would become Pirate King.
Chapter 990 showed Queen and Who's Who working side by side with a tighter relationship than we could ever have imagined, not only because of previous misdirections between the two, but because that scene subverted what we thought of the crew's dynamic.
And then we have King and Jack who are his closest soldiers. Maybe Queen too.
We still have to see more of the others, but Sasaki looks loyal too. Page One is probably in the same page as his sister. Black Maria wants to be the wife, lol, and that could be genuine and not only a game of power.
Apoo is the one Supernova who may not betray Kaido at the end.
All of them may be competing between themselves to climb higher inside the hierarchy, but not only out of fear and respect, but also because of loyalty and admiration.
These are fair points, I wouldn't want to undersell the characterisation we've gotten of the upper ranks. And really it makes it all the more intriguing to see more of these relationships and find out what's going on behind the scenes that makes it worth putting up with Kaido's random descents into violence.
My guess is the ONLY one who doesn't fear Kaido even when he's drunk is King. Queen got absolutely petrified at Big Mom when she came back to her senses (meaning her more terrifying mode). So I'll wager a guess that King doesn't fear Kaido drunk or sober. Jack seemed somewhat disturbed by him when he was drunk in the 920s.
Maybe even a little further, maybe the underlings don't fear Kaido when he's "happy drunk" like at Onigashima. But when he's "abusive drunk" I mean yeah, his club can end you or a giant flaming laser beam.
Oh yeah, there's definitely some variety to his drunk moods. We've seen happy, sad and angry from memory, but it also seems like he can swing between them at a moment's notice. You have to wonder if alcohol makes everyone vulnerable to his violent whims, or if it just exaggerates how he already felt, ie disposable mooks become even more disposable, but executives remain at least somewhat valued. As above, there's a lot that makes me really interested to see how Kaido got his start and how he established his inner circle. At the minute, he's not especially far removed from other temperamental villains with a handful of close lieutenants, but the foundation laid has a lot of potential.
-
Maybe he likes his big boys because they can take a drunken swing and not go flying out of the window.
-
Despite Orochi's lack of fighting capabilities, he is a large part of why Kaido is so feared. Say what you will about Orochi being weak but he is a shrewd and cautious man that took his enemies seriously. Kaido would likely not even be in his position if not for Orochi. Oden clearly bested Kaido in their battle twenty years ago but Orochi calculating such a possibility stationed Kurozumi Higurashi there to turn the tide back into Kaido's favour where Kaido got gifted the opportunity to land the deciding blow of the battle. And lets not forget that it was Kaido who agreed to Oden's last request and gave the Akazaya Nine the opportunity to escape. If Orochi had his way, all of the Samurai would be boiled alongside the Oden and be Wanizame food by now.
Move twenty years in the future, to just a few months ago, and it was Orochi who realised the dangers the Akazaya Nine and Momonosuke posed. Kaido failed to heed Orochi's advise than and subsequently failed to stop Kin'emon and Co. from escaping Wano Kuni. Move to just over a month ago when Kaido was informed by Orochi that Raizo was on Zou. Kaido once again failed to take Orochi seriously and only sent his weakest All-Star to Zou while he went hunting for a Sky Island to jump off.
As for 2 weeks ago when Orochi knew a rebellion was being formed, Kaido once again failed to listen leaving Luffy alive once captured all because he underestimates his enemies.
And now in the current time he goes and "beheads" Orochi to only moments later find out that Orochi was right all along regarding the shadows on Punk Hazard, Dressrosa, Zou and Wano Kuni. Unlike Kaido, Orochi takes his enemies seriously as I mentioned. Behind all the barking Kaido does, he is not very intellectual. Orochi was the one who made up for Kaido's shortcomings. Kaido in my mind is the weakest Yonko and the only reason he is of any note is because of his "unkillable" nature and potential connection to the Ancient Giants. Sure Kaido is naturally strong but from what Oda has revealed about Kaido during his introduction, he is susceptible to being injured and defeated. Everything the Akazaya Nine are doing is consistent with how Kaido has been portrayed - someone who can be defeated. The Akazaya Nine will continue to injure and corner Kaido but they will ultimately be unable to kill him. Only when the Akazaya Nine are exhausted will Kaido end up defeating them. Once Kaido's "unkillable" trait is gone, I see no problem with characters like Luffy, Zoro, Law and Kid defeating Kaido. In my view Kaido doesn't compare to the other Yonko such as Whitebeard, Shanks and Big Mom. Kaido is too reliant on his natural strength and "unkillable" feature. The "Strongest Creature" title Kaido has is such a misleading one I feel. Based on what I've read this Wano Kuni Arc, this is where my expectations on Kaido lies.
As for Orochi, once he reappears, I would love to see him fully unleash now that he has no reason to hold himself back against the citizen's of Wano Kuni. Use that Warship the CP-0 provided you to lay siege to Wano Kuni (including Onigashima)! Orochi hasn’t had much of an opportunity to solidify himself as a proper villain beyond the physical weak, manipulative individual who strategically abused the fortuitous opportunity he was lucky to find himself in – in the absence of Oden, the Kurozumi Family remnants reached out to him. Orochi took that opportunity and ran with it successfully. Orochi going full Vander Decken IX on Wano Kuni would be a spectacle to see and raise the stakes within this Arc. Rise as an antagonist Orochi! Embrace you madness. Forsake the Beast Pirates. And use all your resources to actively destroy everything in Wano! This way, when your eventual defeat is ushered in (as the Yamata no Orochi), it would be all the more satisfying.
-
Despite Orochi's lack of fighting capabilities, he is a large part of why Kaido is so feared. Say what you will about Orochi being weak but he is a shrewd and cautious man that took his enemies seriously. Kaido would likely not even be in his position if not for Orochi. Oden clearly bested Kaido in their battle twenty years ago but Orochi calculating such a possibility stationed Kurozumi Higurashi there to turn the tide back into Kaido's favour where Kaido got gifted the opportunity to land the deciding blow of the battle. And lets not forget that it was Kaido who agreed to Oden's last request and gave the Akazaya Nine the opportunity to escape. If Orochi had his way, all of the Samurai would be boiled alongside the Oden and be Wanizame food by now.
Move twenty years in the future, to just a few months ago, and it was Orochi who realised the dangers the Akazaya Nine and Momonosuke posed. Kaido failed to heed Orochi's advise than and subsequently failed to stop Kin'emon and Co. from escaping Wano Kuni. Move to just over a month ago when Kaido was informed by Orochi that Raizo was on Zou. Kaido once again failed to take Orochi seriously and only sent his weakest All-Star to Zou while he went hunting for a Sky Island to jump off.
As for 2 weeks ago when Orochi knew a rebellion was being formed, Kaido once again failed to listen leaving Luffy alive once captured all because he underestimates his enemies.
And now in the current time he goes and "beheads" Orochi to only moments later find out that Orochi was right all along regarding the shadows on Punk Hazard, Dressrosa, Zou and Wano Kuni. Unlike Kaido, Orochi takes his enemies seriously as I mentioned. Behind all the barking Kaido does, he is not very intellectual. Orochi was the one who made up for Kaido's shortcomings. Kaido in my mind is the weakest Yonko and the only reason he is of any note is because of his "unkillable" nature and potential connection to the Ancient Giants. Sure Kaido is naturally strong but from what Oda has revealed about Kaido during his introduction, he is susceptible to being injured and defeated. Everything the Akazaya Nine are doing is consistent with how Kaido has been portrayed - someone who can be defeated. The Akazaya Nine will continue to injure and corner Kaido but they will ultimately be unable to kill him. Only when the Akazaya Nine are exhausted will Kaido end up defeating them. Once Kaido's "unkillable" trait is gone, I see no problem with characters like Luffy, Zoro, Law and Kid defeating Kaido. In my view Kaido doesn't compare to the other Yonko such as Whitebeard, Shanks and Big Mom. Kaido is too reliant on his natural strength and "unkillable" feature. The "Strongest Creature" title Kaido has is such a misleading one I feel. Based on what I've read this Wano Kuni Arc, this is where my expectations on Kaido lies.
%100 agreed.
A lot of people are still ignoring the very obvious failings of Kaido and his crew because of the hype train, he's been utterly complacent because of his "unkillable status", who else would be misguided enough to gather over 9 of the Worst generation in one place and expect to have a fun drinking party? There's a reason he's going to be the 1st Emperor to fall. Though I think Orochi's contributions to his position should probably be judged after we see Kaido's flashback.
One thing I find really strange is how some fans are for some reason cheering on the villains and feeling sad that they didn't put in a good showing? Like you do realize that their entire purpose is to be defeated right?
As for Orochi, once he reappears, I would love to see him fully unleash now that he has no reason to hold himself back against the citizen's of Wano Kuni. Use that Warship the CP-0 provided you to lay siege to Wano Kuni (including Onigashima)! Orochi hasn’t had much of an opportunity to solidify himself as a proper villain beyond the physical weak, manipulative individual who strategically abused the fortuitous opportunity he was lucky to find himself in – in the absence of Oden, the Kurozumi Family remnants reached out to him. Orochi took that opportunity and ran with it successfully. Orochi going full Vander Decken IX on Wano Kuni would be a spectacle to see and raise the stakes within this Arc. Rise as an antagonist Orochi! Embrace you madness. Forsake the Beast Pirates. And use all your resources to actively destroy everything in Wano! This way, when your eventual defeat is ushered in (as the Yamata no Orochi), it would be all the more satisfying.
I find it interesting that most of the truly tantalizing possibilities of Wano are tied to Orochi rather than Kaido. He is the far more interesting villain of the two and I would really, really hate it if that beheading was all there is to his fate. I mean, this is the 1st OP villain that actually spawned a hate subreddit (r/fuckorochi).
-
Here are my 2 cents on how Kin was able to cut Kaidou this time:
He simply caught Kaidou offguard.
When he used the blast breath, he might have thought "I wonder who is still standing after this."
Kaidou didn't know that there was someone capable of cutting fire, let alone his attack.Of course this is how I personally interpreted this outcome so far.
Oda himself once stated that if everyone interpreted his manga the same way, it'd be the worst scenario in Oda's mind.
For that sake, it's kinda good we all interprete this story differently.So dear mods, I know bashing, whining and trolling ain't cool, but we can all argue politely over this story.
-
My interpretation is that if all Kin’nemon was able to cut was Kaido’s lips, Kaido has nothing to worry about.
It’s like a slap in the face. It only harms pride.
-
My interpretation is that if all Kin’nemon was able to cut was Kaido’s lips, Kaido has nothing to worry about.
It’s like a slap in the face. It only harms pride.
Didn't think About it this way! But of Course, lip-Skin is thinner and more sensitive than normal Skin!
-
I would love it if Kaido actually cared for Jack on an intimate level, but he sounded more like a Japanese Stag Beetle collector talking about one of his finest specimen.
"You are not weak Jacku, you are one of my handpicked champions! The stupid neighbors boy just brought his cat to an insect fight!!
!
"I wanted an all stag beetle collection but mama said I already have too many!!
"There is this rare and really fat dung beetle in the forest nearby! It's not a stagbeetle, but I want it!!
-
I would love it if Kaido actually cared for Jack on an intimate level, but he sounded more like a Japanese Stag Beetle collector talking about one of his finest specimen.
"You are not weak Jacku, you are one of my handpicked champions! The stupid neighbors boy just brought his cat to an insect fight!!
!
"I wanted an all stag beetle collection but mama said I already have too many!! https://img.fireden.net/co/image/1549/64/1549644605288.png
"There is this rare and really fat dung beetle in the forest nearby! It's not a stagbeetle, but I want it!Is one contradicting the other?
-
We know for a fact that kaido has been defeated or captured numerous times, So it’s not the dude is completely undefeatable.
Next is your scaling of kinemon. Apart from law who has arguably a hax df power. Who else did we see that kinemon couldn’t defeat or even fight? We also know that 10 ppl went up against kaido’s previous army and almost won. 8 of those ppl were up against kaidos army are now facing kaido and kinemon was one of them. I’m not gonna day kinemon is some super strong samurai but it’s clear your estimation of how strong he is was misplaced.
Not only that, we’ve seen ashura doji, cat, dog, fish and denjiro display some actual combat prowess and then we know one is a white beard commander. We know they’re strong but bc kinemon didn’t do much or have the chances to do much you assumed he sucked.–- Update From New Post Merge ---
I thought about him too. He’d fit the mold perfectly. But poison and weaponry seem to be his thing.
Spot on. All the other scabbards think that Kinemon is their leader. It implies that he's the strongest among them.
-
My interpretation is that if all Kin’nemon was able to cut was Kaido’s lips, Kaido has nothing to worry about.
It’s like a slap in the face. It only harms pride.
Eeeh!!, clearly you've never had your lips cut sir.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Who doesn't enjoy a little bit of headcannon. My own treasured headcannon is that Apoo the informant has always been a loyal Beast Pirate and will go down with the crew.
My sig is entirely headcannon, it looks amazing in my mind.
And I just can't believe people are resisting the upcoming Mecha/Kaiju reference with Kid and Queen, but okay, u guys haven't realized the Japanese arc is full of Japanese references, take your time, no worries.
-
Is one contradicting the other?
If it's a [father / child] relation I would say yes.
Though thinking about it… there are some fucked up families where parents rank and love their children based on value...
Yeah okay, this can go hand in hand I guess, it just didn't came to my mind when thinking about parents.
-
If it's a [father / child] relation I would say yes.
Though thinking about it… there are some fucked up families where parents rank and love their children based on value...
Yeah okay, this can go hand in hand I guess, it just didn't came to my mind when thinking about parents.
Yep that was what i was going for. Remember Kaidou saying "where is my useless son", due to the ideals Yamato has prescribed to?
And then there is the fact that Yamato is also 28 years old and has been imprisoned since 8, Jack is 28 and was 8 when Wa No stuff happened.
And Jack calling Queen and King big brothers, further supporting the family theme.
-
I would love it if Kaido actually cared for Jack on an intimate level, but he sounded more like a Japanese Stag Beetle collector talking about one of his finest specimen.
"You are not weak Jacku, you are one of my handpicked champions! The stupid neighbors boy just brought his cat to an insect fight!!
!
"I wanted an all stag beetle collection but mama said I already have too many!! https://img.fireden.net/co/image/1549/64/1549644605288.png
"There is this rare and really fat dung beetle in the forest nearby! It's not a stagbeetle, but I want it!This is fantastic! Imagine Kaido and Big Mom comparing, trading and battling their collections of weird-ass human stag beetles like they're a pair of Pokemon trainers.
I suppose this metaphor makes Luffy the player character who's somehow conquered the professional league and put together a party of overlevelled and legendary Pokemon within a day of his tenth birthday, little upstart that he is.
-
BM and Kaido = Ash and Gary
-
Video Review
I really loved the crew interactions, the highlight of this week’s chapter.
I always appreciate when Oda reasserts Zoro’s role as the crew’s first mate. His pragmatism offsets Luffy’s tendency to follow his gut without thinking through the consequences or implications of his actions. Jimbei now occupies a similar role on the crew, so I like that Zoro is here the first one to weigh in on partnering with Drake.
Which leads to a great comedic scene where Zoro, Jimbei, and Franky all warn Luffy against accepting Drake’s invitation, which Luffy completely ignores. Of course, in this case, Luffy’s right to follow his instinct to trust Drake, who will likely ultimately be instrumental in helping to defeat Kaido.
We see through a flashback Drake and Koby discussing Luffy in person, in a scene which appears to take place post-time skip. We know Drake has been undercover among Kaido’s crew from an earlier point in the story, so even as a member of Sword he has still been meeting in person with members of the Marines. At this point, it’s not clear whether or not the top brass of the Marines are aware of Sword’s existence, but at the very least we can say that its members are in regular contact.
I thought it was interesting Page One referred to Luffy as ‘that guy in the Straw Hat’ rather than ‘Straw Hat Luffy’. At this point in the story, Luffy’s infamy seems to precede him in most situations.
I liked the comedic moment from Sanji where he remarks on Ulti being attractive while in her dinosaur form. Post-time skip, Oda has at times gone a bit overboard with the gags related to Sanji’s attraction to women, but I thought this one struck the right note. Sanji didn’t go running after Nami or Ulti, instead staying focused on the mission, which was also really nice to see.
This leads into my favorite scene from the chapter which sets up a team fight between Ulti & Page One and Nami & Usopp. It’s one of those things I didn’t realize I wanted until it happened. The setup was great with Usopp attacking Page One from afar. In a really nice visual gag which takes advantage of the comic medium, Usopp hides behind Nami and imitates her voice.
The panel progression was really well done. Naoki Urasawa who wrote series like Monster and 20th Century Boys will often draw panels where, even though a character is speaking, their mouth is closed. Oda’s characters are vary more expressive – one of his strengths as a manga artist is depicting the emotions expressed by his characters, making even dialogue scenes seem really dynamic. I was caught off guard in the panel where Nami declares war on Ulti, which made the punch line in the next panel really land.
Nami and Usopp have always had a sibling like relationship, so matching them up in a team battle against Ulti and Page One has the potential to be great. In a call back to many of Nami’s previous fights, she talks a big game while running away. I think this could lead to a really satisfying conclusion. For a moment I thought, perhaps Nami and Usopp aren’t really up to the task, but after a bit more consideration, I think many, myself included really overestimated the strength of some of the Tobi Roppo, but I think the disparity between the Calamaties and the lower ranking members of the Beast Pirates may be as great as the divide between Kaido and his commanders.
Power scaling isn’t really that interesting of a topic because the Straw Hats will always be as strong as the story demands, but I can easily see them being on the same level as the Flying Six without it being much of a stretch.
There seems to be setup for Drake and Zoro to fight Apoo, but Queen intervenes. I mentioned last week that one of the matchups I’m really hoping to see is Brook vs. Apoo and I think the door is open for that to be setup in 992.
We still have only been introduced to half of the numbers (4, 5, 8, 9, and 10; 1, 2, 3, 6, and 7 have yet to make an appearance), but we have here clarified by Apoo that intoxication played a role in the ease with which Goki and Juki were defeated by Luffy and Drake in the previous chapter.
In the 989 discussion, I brought up the fact that the Numbers being failed experiments by Caesar, which implies they were likely abducted and experimented on as were the other children from Punk Hazard and that this connection could illicit some sympathy from the Straw Hats. And in 990, well… things went a different direction.
This week, we have yet another update. Hatcha arrives and is immediately enamored with Robot Shogun Franky, which draws yet another parallel to the kids from Punk Hazard. Hatcha goes running after Franky, who he mistakes for a toy, highlighting the fact that, despite their destructive tendency, the Numbers are still children at heart. Which means, we may yet see them rescued and redeemed by the Straw Hats. Vindication!
Almost. We’ll see how this plays out, but I could envision a scene where Hatcha and the other yet to be introduced Numbers are so taken with Shogun Franky’s coolness, they flip sides and turn on Kaido. We have seen the Straw Hats inspire a change of heart in Giant enemies in past arcs, so the super giant children turning against Kaido could continue that pattern. I can also imagine a gag scene where, a female member of the Numbers is not captivated by Shogun Franky, again calling back to the scene with the kids from Punk Hazard.
I really like that Jimbei was able to quickly recognize Shogun Franky’s allure and recommend he draw Hatcha away from the battlefield.
In the 990 discussion, I mentioned the idea that, as the Straw Hats advance upward toward the roof of Onigashima, they would be slowly picked off and drawn away from the group into fights with the Tobi Roppo and that process already started here. Chopper, Robin, Brook, and Carrot don’t appear this week, but I suspect their fights could be setup in the next chapter.
Usopp, Nami, and Franky have already been drawn away from the battle. I think matching Robin up against Black Maria would make a lot of sense. Queen seems to be using poison bullets, referencing the events during Udon Prison from Act 2. Perhaps Chopper will somehow be drawn into that conflict being the ship’s doctor. In any case, I do like that he wasn’t paired up with Usopp. It would nice to see Carrot have her own spotlight or be paired with a different character like Robin or Brook rather than Chopper, but we’ll see.
Magazine 10 explained that in the previous arc, Luffy wasn’t able to best Katakuri with strength and bravery alone and thus doesn’t take pride in that victory. I still stand behind the sentiment that Luffy is not ready to fight Kaido one on one during the Wano arc. I also really don’t think that’s what Oda’s setting up here. So it’s hard to imagine even the strongest members of his crew, Sanji, Zoro, and Jimbei being on par yet with Kaido’s commanders. Pairing them up with other strong characters could offset the disparity in strength. Drake teaming up with Zoro to fight Queen, or maybe Marco teaming up with Sanji to fight King. Or maybe Jimbei and Who’s Who vs. Queen, leaving Zoro to go with Luffy and fight Kaido.
In the last scene of the chapter, we return to the rooftop where the battle is still raging between the scabbards, Minks, and Kaido. I wasn’t surprised that Oda off-paneled the fight between Inuarushi, Nekomamushi and Jack. We already saw Jack outclassed by Ashura Doji, so the fight didn’t really require much panel time. The focus here is on finally revealing the full Sulong transformations for Inu and Neko.
I was surprised at how much concern Kaido showed for Jack, even in defeat. He actually assuages Jack’s feeling of guilt for failing to defeat the Minks. It’s interesting that Kaido does not view his commanders as disposable, which is a side of his character we haven’t seen yet. He assures Jack that he is not weak and commends the strength of Inuarushi and Nekomamushi. This makes me more interested in seeing Kaido’s backstory. We still don’t know anything about his motivating desire for conquering Wano and inciting a world war. In 989, Kaido warned that pirates will always betray one another, yet he shows compassion for those within his crew. Kaido cries when he drinks heavily, which would seem to betray some deep unexpressed emotion. Yamato’s mother and unexplored connection to Ace introduce further questions about Kaido’s past. It would be interesting if Act 4 includes a flashback for Kaido and Yamato as a parallel to the lengthy Oden flashback in Part 3.
Like the musketeers and guardians, their designs really live up to the moon lion descriptor with large flowing manes. I was expecting perhaps their designs would be a bit more distinct given how long Oda delayed showing them, but visually, they’re very similar to the others. I think the fact that even Inu and Neko have very standard designs for the Sulong, makes Carrot’s design seem even more distinct by comparison. It’s entirely possible the absence of a mane is based on her gender, but she also appears less animalistic. It was implied that Carrot’s mastery of Sulong through Pedro’s training was exceptional, particularly for her age. Perhaps the degree to which the transformation morphs the mink’s features correlates with their level of control or mastery. So…. Carrot achieved Super Sulong Level 2. At this point, it’s just speculation though.
I was hoping they would have the opportunity to avenge the events of Zou by defeating Jack and I’m glad we got to see that come to pass. We see that the time limit for the rest of the army seems to have expired, but they managed to take down one of Kaido’s commanders and significantly weaken his forces, meaning the moon lion army has served the alliance well.
This leaves the Nine scabbards alone to fight Kaido. We end with a really cool moment for Kinemon splitting the flames from Kaido’s attack and clearing a path forward. And I’m yet again impressed that he was able to wound Kaido. I’m glad Inu and Neko were not drawn away for long. After 990, I expected we would perhaps see the scabbards divided and conquered. As I have discussed, I still expect Kaido to emerge victorious, but at least they’ll go down together.
I could see this happening gradually, with the scabbards falling in battle one by one. Maybe each chapter, leading up to the Act break, we’ll see one or two of them defeated by Kaido. There are eight chapters leading up to chapter 1000, so it’s possible this will lead to a climactic moment.
Touching lastly on the idea that Big Mom, perhaps under Orochi’s sway could be drawn into a secondary plot involving Orochi, her continued absence here makes that seem more likely. The Straw Hats are now splitting off to go fight members of the Tobi Roppo, taking a group battle off the table. As I said, I think the payoff to that conflict likely won’t come until Elbaf.
The Oniwabanshu disappeared and we haven’t seen Orochi or Kanjuro since their apparent deaths. I can’t imagine the Kurozumi Clan storyline has been dropped, which leads me to believe these elements will come together, perhaps in Act 4. As I said, I do believe the scabbards are very likely to lose against Kaido based on the structure of Kabuki plays. After Inu and Neko alone defeated Jack, I do think it is worth considering the possibility they actually emerge victorious. I discussed this idea in greater detail in a previous theory video, but it’s important to note Kaido is not unbeatable, but he is unkillable. What if the Scabbards defeat, but fail to kill Kaido? If Orochi’s devil fruit ability somehow gives him sway over others, could he somehow bring both Kaido and Big Mom under his control?
One of my biggest reservations about Kaido defeating the Nine Scabbards is the fact that it seems so predictable. The third act of Kabuki plays usually end in tragedy and Luffy is bound to be involved in the fight against Kaido. If, as I suspect, good fortune keeps Kaido alive, the scabbards, even in victory, would fail to strike a killing blow. Perhaps the dramatic turn comes through Orochi, betrayed by Kaido. Kaido’s incursion in Wano was ultimately instigated by Orochi and the Kurozumi Clan. Having him play the role of puppet master, taking control of Kaido and Big Mom could certainly escalate the conflict in Act 4 and provide a surprising twist on the tragic conclusion to Act 3.
-
Something I commented in the spoiler thread: did something happen to Sanji in the brothel? I think so. His reapperance after that seem to have him way more level-headed, and his reaction to Ulti was really subtle (for him).
I think we will have a small flashback to his search for the women. Maybe he starts imagining them but his mind constantle goes back to Pudding crying in their farewell? Could there be some sort of character development seeded in WCI? Or am I imagining things too far?
-
Maybe he finally got laid?
-
Something I commented in the spoiler thread: did something happen to Sanji in the brothel? I think so. His reapperance after that seem to have him way more level-headed, and his reaction to Ulti was really subtle (for him).
I think we will have a small flashback to his search for the women. Maybe he starts imagining them but his mind constantle goes back to Pudding crying in their farewell? Could there be some sort of character development seeded in WCI? Or am I imagining things too far?
Post-nut clarity hits a man hard.
-
Something I commented in the spoiler thread: did something happen to Sanji in the brothel? I think so. His reapperance after that seem to have him way more level-headed, and his reaction to Ulti was really subtle (for him).
I think we will have a small flashback to his search for the women. Maybe he starts imagining them but his mind constantle goes back to Pudding crying in their farewell? Could there be some sort of character development seeded in WCI? Or am I imagining things too far?
I like this idea. Re-calibrating Sanji to be more level headed, back to his pre-time skip self would be great. I like the idea of it actually being rooted in his character development on WCI.
-
Something I commented in the spoiler thread: did something happen to Sanji in the brothel? I think so. His reapperance after that seem to have him way more level-headed, and his reaction to Ulti was really subtle (for him).
The only thing I gathered from this is that Sanji would fuck anything (anything) as long as it resembles a woman only slightly.
!
Like really, nothing is off limits. Fur is not a problem, scales are not a problem, various deformities are not a problem, the entire lower half being FISH is not a problem. The Dressrosa Dwarves were lucky that Sanji wasn't around, I don't want to know how he would have reacted to them…
But hey, at least he doesn't discriminate. He's inclusive.
-
He sees the beauty of their heart
-
People on this board really loves to hype Kaidou up.
Maybe the fanbase as a whole likes the dude but he's such a hypocritical piece of shit I can't find myself enjoying him.
Now I'm not baiting but people defend his "oh it was not me but I'll still shoot you in the head" dirty ethics and his cruelty to Wano as pirates will always be pirates.
Now he use a line which is, I'll give you 50-50, to hype up the minks leaders and maybe to show a little respect for Jack and the fanbase goes on as if his entire crew of mass murderers and poison gas maniacs is somehow capable of being strongly loyal to that guy.
Dude chooses his crew through a Russian roulette (SMILE) and he's somehow befitting of a character that deserves loyalty.
Did you see an inch of loyalty when he was drunk and was about to kamehameha Jack's ass off the page? All I saw was fear.This is either a terrible last minute attempt at humanising the guy which is frankly something I think isn't what Oda is trying to do or the latter, a part of the fanbase loves the stupid bravado of the macho stereotypical gruff huff big guy that they have to insist that him being respectful to his comrades is a good trait to further wank that guy up.
-
I don't believe Oda would be too literal about Sanji getting laid, but I do think that the "pleasure hall excursion" will pay off at some point.
I know that Sanji's brief disappearance already lead to him saving Momonosuke, but it was a little random that it happened through that excuse. When Sanji disappeared in Water 7 to catch the train or when he disappeared in Enies Lobby to open the gates of justice, he always did it with those purposes on his mind.
My conjecture is that Oda was trying to hit two birds with one stone, so that we get two pay offs. First Sanji saves Momonosuke, then it's revealed that Sanji set up a trap or something by meeting the prostitutes.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
People on this board really loves to hype Kaidou up.
Maybe the fanbase as a whole likes the dude but he's such a hypocritical piece of shit I can't find myself enjoying him.
Now I'm not baiting but people defend his "oh it was not me but I'll still shoot you in the head" dirty ethics and his cruelty to Wano as pirates will always be pirates.
Now he use a line which is, I'll give you 50-50, to hype up the minks leaders and maybe to show a little respect for Jack and the fanbase goes on as if his entire crew of mass murderers and poison gas maniacs is somehow capable of being strongly loyal to that guy.
Dude chooses his crew through a Russian roulette (SMILE) and he's somehow befitting of a character that deserves loyalty.
Did you see an inch of loyalty when he was drunk and was about to kamehameha Jack's ass off the page? All I saw was fear.This is either a terrible last minute attempt at humanising the guy which is frankly something I think isn't what Oda is trying to do or the latter, a part of the fanbase loves the stupid bravado of the macho stereotypical gruff huff big guy that they have to insist that him being respectful to his comrades is a good trait to further wank that guy up.
Everybody in this thread understands that Kaido is a bad guy and a complete asshole.
But people can be wholeheartedly loyal to a terrible scumbag. That's just how many humans roll, including (arguably) some members of the Beast Pirates, like the two on your profile pic.
-
I still maintain that Oda doesn't see Sanji as in need of fixing.
-
This post is deleted!
-
Maybe he finally got laid?
Post-nut clarity hits a man hard.
That would be funny as hell, but not something Oda would show in One Piece, so I think the Pudding thing is better.
@Vongola_Boss_XI:
I like this idea. Re-calibrating Sanji to be more level headed, back to his pre-time skip self would be great. I like the idea of it actually being rooted in his character development on WCI.
Indeed.
I still maintain that Oda doesn't see Sanji as in need of fixing.
It's not fixing, it's character development. One Piece is also a journey about youngsters becoming adults. It may not be totally necessary, but it would be a nice thought.
-
@uniaka:
Maybe just in terms of combat, since he got RS. His leg only- style was always too limited, if cool and unique.
His fighting style didn't change with the RS, only the skin.
-
Seeing Kaido and one of the All Star crumble relatively easy, I wonder if the real enemy would be Blackbeard who come to Wano instead of 1 on 1 with Beast Pirates :ninja:
-
like the two on your profile pic.
Very valid point.
Very valid point.I think I got it out of my system but yeah in One Piece there are a lot of different kind of loyalty and loyalty doesn't distinguish.
I guess I was the one with my rose tinted glasses believing there's only a "good" kind of loyalty while completely missing the point -
His fighting style didn't change with the RS, only the skin.
Well, he now is advanced technology based, not a proper martial artist anymore.
-
I loved the last two spreads of the chapter sulong Dogstorm and Catviper are beasts. Sadly we only saw the end of the fight with jack. Hope jack is not down for good and we will see him back in battle at least for a few more panels of actual fighting. Kinemon is easily the MVP of this chapter, but I hope Kaido will finally get serious or at least start playing with them. I hope we will see some action between him and the samurais, before Luffy arrives with all the other people who will tag along
Short question when will the next chapter drop? Is it in one week like manga plus says or is it two weeks like Shonen jump says? -
@uniaka:
Well, he now is advanced technology based, not a proper martial artist anymore.
But this technology only reinforces Sanji's strenght giving him more durability and speed boost. His fights are still martial fights that will look the same if you see through the skin.
The only new thing is the invisibility power.
-
I hope the raid suit redesign keeps Sanji's style of clothing. Still give him dark glasses, but a trentchcoat instead of a cape, making him look like a secret agent. It would be a callback to his "spy" tendencies as Mr. Prince.
-
Seeing Kaido and one of the All Star crumble relatively easy, I wonder if the real enemy would be Blackbeard who come to Wano instead of 1 on 1 with Beast Pirates :ninja:
Kaido's crumbled already from a sliced lip, huh?
Are you guys interested in fishing? I could make a killing selling bait to you all since you love it so much. :D -
It's not fixing, it's character development. One Piece is also a journey about youngsters becoming adults. It may not be totally necessary, but it would be a nice thought.
One usually accompanies the other. A character grows to adress a flaw, but unless Oda thinks his horndogging is a character flaw worth adressing it probably won't happen. I think it, like his inability to hit women, is something he just views as funny or noble character traits, and not as weakpoints for him to grow out off.
-
Honestly I think Queen is a good match for Chopper lol. I would assume he's using the same poison bullets he used in Udon but Chopper has a cure for them. It might be interesting to see a battle where Chopper is running around trying to cure everyone Queen hits with his poison and Carrot is protecting him from the beast pirates or someone like Who's Who. At least until Jinbei or Luffy can reach Queen to stop him in person.
I'm hoping for Kairoseki ones, but poisonous/infectious ones are also cool.