Does anyone else get "Where the wild things are." vibes from the numbers in this chapter?
Chapter 989: I Can't Imagine Losing
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Enies Lobby 2.0
I expect match ups decided from this point on
IF YOU DIE, I'LL KILL YOU….
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Croc or Enel would never.Wanna see the "ancient civilization destroyed" thing done really well? FFXIV did a great take on it. The bar's high for One Piece to beat.
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The funny thing about the entire thing is that probably no one got really defeated yet except for 1 ex Oden Samurai
1. Yonko = NOT
2. Commnders = NOT
3. Flying 6 = NOT
4. Orochi = probably not
5. Orochi's Samurai and Ninja = not
6. Numbers = maybe 1?
7. Apoo = Not
8. Hawkins = Probably not
9. Big Mom's Pirate's = NOT
10. Bunch of random fodder = Still out thereSo yeah :D
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With all this talk about Big Mom being defeated I'd just like to add that I never though this would happen. Even before Tottoland I thought that at some point her conflict with Luffy will end because they suddenly become allies and even now I think that's what we are heading for. I just don't have the slightest idea how such a turn would actually happen.
My expectation is that Perospero's only main story reason for being on Onigashima is to get her off of the island via a sea slug after the climax. Big Mom's story doesn't end here in my opinion. There's a resolution to the Lola story line that needs to happen, probably on Elbaf.
We need the post-timeskip "Sabaody Moment" where all hope is lost. Oda can't juggle these two emperors at the same time so he keeps nerfing Big Mom until she can take the focus. She's going to really tear the alliance a new one at some point. Maybe steal souls creating a Thriller Bark sunlight situation with everyone's lifespan and considering Luffy has used up so much of his it may leave him incapacitated leaving room for Zoro to really step into a vice-captain role and lead the Haramakiwara Pirates.
Big Mom needs to remember and atone for a lot of her actions. I think Pudding will be instrumental in that. The big fight at Elbaf could honestly even be Straw Hats vs the Big Mom pirates. I don't see Luffy beating her though, I expect and outside plot force to push her out of the story once her character arc is resolved.K-F|Jango
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I hope that at end of fighting MOST Strawhats will be as beaten up as Luffy was at end of his fight with Katakuri.
What I think that might happen is that Kaido and some of his forces will escape to Wano. Kaido getting hit with Ryuo infused King Kong Gun directly into scar from Odens swords might inflict enough damage for Kaido to fly to Wano.
Or for example Kaido might just order his forces to get out of Castle and then fire his Dragon Breath for castle to collapse with everyone inside. That would make good ending for this act 3.
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@The:
Does anyone else get "Where the wild things are." vibes from the numbers in this chapter?
I thought I was the only one! Yes! Where the Wild Things Are!
Folks who read One Piece… Just better people. ¯\(ツ)/¯
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(…)And physical strength isn't an issue for the strongest Fishman we've seen thus far, (…)
Jack is very sad Right now.
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I hope that at end of fighting MOST Strawhats will be as beaten up as Luffy was at end of his fight with Katakuri.
What I think that might happen is that Kaido and some of his forces will escape to Wano. Kaido getting hit with Ryuo infused King Kong Gun directly into scar from Odens swords might inflict enough damage for Kaido to fly to Wano.
Or for example Kaido might just order his forces to get out of Castle and then fire his Dragon Breath for castle to collapse with everyone inside. That would make good ending for this act 3.
Its already hard to believe most battles will happen in Onigashima anyways, the place resulted kinda small and everyone is too closw to each other, even Marco and Persopero being at the entrance aren't too far away.
The battles need to split, and Holdem for example is still in Kuri, so chances are, the whole war will spread throughout the main land, some might stay in Onigashima until the end, but most will definitely spread all over Wano.
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I thought I was the only one! Yes! Where the Wild Things Are!
I loved that book as a kid. I don't know if these numbers are an intentional reference, but it's a cool little thing either way.
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No wonder why Katakuri does not join the troupe.
He already know what will happen to Big Mom :ninja: -
From the title it's almost like guarantee that SHP will lose (hard) soon. And will have to climb from bottom again to defeat Kaido and or BM
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The Numbers are from Punk Hazard? From the way they act, I'd say they're from Drunk Hazard.
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She hadn't swung yet though it seems, though I guess one could argue it's one of those manga things where time is wonky. And physical strength isn't an issue for the strongest Fishman we've seen thus far, on top of her being caught off guard. I dunno, I don't want to delve too much into it given that the series can freely operate on cartoon logic at times, though I guess that's on us for bringing it up to begin with.
I just wanted to make the basic point that Jinbe certainly has enough strength to credibly lift a distracted Big Mom given his past feats and mastery of a fictional martial art.
Jinbei likely is not as strong as Jack. In 1 vs 1 even with what Joinbei lol shown he feels inferior to Jack.
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I wonder if zoro is going up there because he will figth jack.
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Shift's wife translation was amazingly accurate, it almost feels criminal that we get such high-quality translation way before anyone else.
Lmao, Stephen's about to lose his job.
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Chapter 1000: I Can't Imagine Winning
Count me into that one.
The title "Can't imagine losing" feels so opposite to the title "adding wings to a Dragon".By your ch. 1000 BM and Kaidou will finally get serious.
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I think over the next five chapters (second half of the volume), the villains will get the upper hand. And then we have the end of Act 3, the intermission will have one to three chapters, building even more tension, and Act 4 starts just before chapter 1,000.
Chapter 1,000 is the second hero comeback, this time with the Supernovas turning the tide.
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I have no interest in those Numbers and the quicker they get out of the picture the better.
I was excited for them at first but you can tell from their designs that the Numbers are high level fodder at best.
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Are volumes really ending so fittingly along with the Acts?
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Are volumes really ending so fittingly along with the Acts?
No, nor I said it would.
VOlumne 98 is probably going to be 985-994
We've seen half of it: 985-989, with the heroes getting more and more advantages. This chapter maximized that feeling.I think 990-994 will be the opposite, with the villains taking the prominence. The heroes will be separated, there will be deaths and defeats.
I'm not saying this villain streak will end exactly in 994, volumes aren't usually that perfectly planned.
But I think Oda will leave some big heroic moment for Chapter 1,000, so I guess somewhere between 990-999 we will have the end of act 3 and the intermission (which may or not be longer than past ones). Then Act 4 starts either before or at chapter 1,000, but the big comeback moment happens in 1,000.
Wano predictions: There will be 5 acts; All Straw Hats will get fights, some in Act 4; Big Mom Pirates will arrive; Carrot will have her moment, but won't join; Yamato will be a Kouzuki samurai and Wano's Guardian; Shanks will visit Luffy in Act 5; Next arc is Mary Geoise.
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No, nor I said it would.
VOlumne 98 is probably going to be 985-994
We've seen half of it: 985-989, with the heroes getting more and more advantages. This chapter maximized that feeling.I think 990-994 will be the opposite, with the villains taking the prominence. The heroes will be separated, there will be deaths and defeats.
I'm not saying this villain streak will end exactly in 994, volumes aren't usually that perfectly planned.
But I think Oda will leave some big heroic moment for Chapter 1,000, so I guess somewhere between 990-999 we will have the end of act 3 and the intermission (which may or not be longer than past ones). Then Act 4 starts either before or at chapter 1,000, but the big comeback moment happens in 1,000.
Chapter 1000 ending with the reveal of Gear 5 perhaps?
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Twitter: https://twitter.com/Mugiwara_23
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Break after chapter 990.
[qimg]https://images2.imgbox.com/1e/a0/inRNq4bh_o.jpg[/qimg]
Thanks for the heads up Redon
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Hm, after the Kaido theory, I wanted to try to do a discussion of this chapter in video form. Holy Shonen Jump Cuts Batman!
I really enjoyed this chapter; After last week’s 15 page chapter, this one felt longer than 17 pages, which was great. I loved the buildup to the double page spread of the crew together at the end of the chapter, which has been setting up for the past 2 or 3 chapters. This is pretty much exactly what I was hoping and expecting to see. The Straw Hats have slowly been assembling in the performance area and are now all together. I always love when Oda builds to scenes like this on the battlefield where the Straw Hats assemble in dramatic fashion.
Almost conspicuously absent here is Carrot. Just a few pages prior, she’s seen standing right next to Nami, so I’m not really sure why Oda chose to leave her out of the scene. I don’t think this necessarily says anything about her chances of joining. Personally, I still believe there’s a very strong likelihood she’s going to join and I hope to make another video very soon on that topic.
The fact remains, all the other allies are presently splitting off. Hyogoro and the Yakuza leave to pursue the other members of the Flying Six. Shinobu, Yamato, and Momo are presently in flight from the performance area. Yet Oda chose to keep only Carrot together with the Straw Hats.
I think at the very least this implies Oda plans to put the spotlight on Carrot. She hasn’t been grouped together with the other minks or used her sulong transformation yet. This means she could split off with Luffy and head for the roof where the rest of the Minks are battling or she could have a confrontation with Perospero given the role he played in Pedro’s death.
At this point, I feel like her character is still in a weird limbo. If she is going to join the crew, I think she has to have at least one fairly substantial character moment during the battle. The fact that she’s still waiting in the wings suggests this is likely to be the case, but for now we’ll have to wait and see what happens. It is worth noting that thee is a scene which is similar, though not exactly the same, at the end of chapter 471. The Straw Hats in the previous chapter were knocked unconscious, but stand back up, ready to face Oars. Though Brook is soon to join, he is not pictured standing with Zoro, Robin, Franky, Usopp, Chopper, and Sanji. At the time he wasn’t yet a member of the crew, in a position very similar to where Carrot is now.
So speaking of Thriller Bark,
I’ve been hoping to see another team up battle like the Straw Hat Pirates vs. Oars on Thriller Bark or the Pacafista on Sabaody; and I think that’s what we’re now set up for on Onigashima.
We have confirmation this chapter that the Numbers are Caesar’s failed experiments from Punk Hazard to replicate the Ancient Giants like Oars. And so here we have an allusion to Thriller Bark where the Straw Hats as a crew fought Oars. I’m really hoping we get to see another team battle like that. I was expecting they would fight Big Mom together, but she was sort of sidelined this chapter. Jimbei did say she will be bake and angrier than ever, which will almost certainly come to pass, but I don’t think it will happen immediately.
It’s really interesting just how many elements of the current story saga were established during Thriller Bark, which begins 10 chapters after Oda first introduces the concept of the Four Emperors. Wano and Kaido are mentioned for the first time. Ryuma, a samurai from Wano is introduced. Lola, the daughter of Big Mom is introduced and forms a friendship with Nami. Moria’s defeat was at the hands of Kaido. One of his zombie generals, Captain John, was later revealed to have been a member of the same crew as Big Mom and Kaido. Looking back, you can sort of see which ideas are related given the proximity with which they appear in the series for the first time. On this basis, I always thought it seemed likely there was some connection between Kaido and Oars given the visual similarities to him and the skull of Onigashima. Here we have yet another connection through the experiments on Punk Hazard.
So I think we can expect to see the Straw Hats fighting the Numbers. I think other characters like Who’s Who, Perospero, and Marco might arrive to distract King and Queen while Luffy makes his way to the roof of Onigashima. The numbers are surprisingly tragic characters if you remember all the other failed experiments frozen in ice. Not to mention those who were victims of the gigantification experiments were abducted as children. So as much as we
Franky was really the star character this chapter. Nami and the others who were present on Whole Cake fought valiantly to defend the Sunny, but ultimately their goal was escape. Here when Nami says they need to run, Franky insists the crew need to stand their ground against an Emperor of the Sea if they hope to make Luffy Pirate King and this echoes a sentiment I have been feeling for a while. Post-time skip, the other members of the crew really haven’t gotten as much focus as I would have liked to see and so it’s hard to imagine them competing with the upper echelon of the crew of an Emperor. While I still don’t think the Straw Hats are quite ready to take on Big Mom, they certainly need to be by the time the Straw Hats arrive on Laugh Tale, which is now fast approaching. At this point, I think it’s more of a matter of when not if the Straw Hats defeat Big Mom. When they fled from Whole Cake Island, Luffy said he would return to defeat her, emphasizing the crew was only fighting at half power. Big Mom still has ties to Elbaf, so it’s entirely possible her story continues beyond Wano.
Jimbei and Robin also had a really cool scene. The technique Robin used to roll Big Mom off into the distance is the same one used against Yama on Skypiea. I’m disappointed we didn’t get to see Carrot’s reaction to Shogun Franky docking. The other female characters on the crew are unimpressed with Franky’s inventions, so I think it would have ben cool to see Carrot share Usopp and Chopper’s enthusiasm. It’s also nice to know Brook left such an indelible mark on Big Mom that she remembers the name of the Soul King.
A few more thoughts:
Big Mom tells Jimbei she’ll get revenge for what he did to her fleet. I guess we can take this as confirmation that the other members of the Fishman Pirates escaped unscathed.
Hyogoro also implies the other members of the Flying Six also have Dinosaur based devil fruit, which isn’t a surprise. He seems to have gotten that information from Denjiro, so it would seem to be reliable.
I think it’s really interesting the way Momo and Shinobu’s reaction to Yamato claiming to be Momo’s father Oden so closely mirrors the cover story arc a few chapters prior in which Pound arrives claiming to be Lola and Chiffon’s father, both precipitating a chase sequence.
Sanji continues to be angered by the durability of the Raid Suit. It creates a really interesting dynamic where he needs to rely on Germa’s technology in order to help his friends, but also resents accepting help from his family. I hope this builds towards Sanji mastering Armament Haki himself, thus mitigating any reliance on Germa’s technology, by the time the crew reach Laugh Tale.
I explained the manner in which good fortune plays a role in Kaido’s winning streak. I’ll link that video at the end for anyone who is interested in checking it out. The idea essentially is that, as an Eastern style Dragon, Kaido’s inability to be killed derives from incredibly good fortune. Momo, who has a unique artificial devil fruit which seemingly mimics Kaido’s may be the key to his victory. The chapter is titled, “I can’t imagine losing”, which strikes me as a particularly ominous portend of impending doom for the alliance.
So as many others have already pointed out, Wano is seemingly structured on a Kabuki play, most of which consist of three acts. Typically the third act ends in a moment of profound tragedy, according to Wikipedia; I think the writing is sort of on the wall that there is an impending disaster for the alliance despite appearing presently to have the upper hand. And I wonder if Momo’s departure may signal a turning of the tides against the alliance. Though we don’t see where they are taking Momo, the safest place would be off of Onigashima, back to the mainland of Wano. If Momo is bringing the alliance good fortune, then taking him away from the battle could be what seals their fate and leads to a devastating failure.
Luffy, Zoro, Nami, Usopp, Sanji, Chopper, Robin, Franky, Brook, Jimbei, Carrot, Vivi, Smoker
"ONE PIECE, IT EXISTS" - The Great Pirate Edward Newgate
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Chapter 1000: I Can't Imagine Winning
I vote for this post as post of the year!
My expectation is that Perospero's only main story reason for being on Onigashima is to get her off of the island via a sea slug after the climax. Big Mom's story doesn't end here in my opinion. There's a resolution to the Lola story line that needs to happen, probably on Elbaf.
We need the post-timeskip "Sabaody Moment" where all hope is lost. Oda can't juggle these two emperors at the same time so he keeps nerfing Big Mom until she can take the focus. She's going to really tear the alliance a new one at some point. Maybe steal souls creating a Thriller Bark sunlight situation with everyone's lifespan and considering Luffy has used up so much of his it may leave him incapacitated leaving room for Zoro to really step into a vice-captain role and lead the Haramakiwara Pirates.
Big Mom needs to remember and atone for a lot of her actions. I think Pudding will be instrumental in that. The big fight at Elbaf could honestly even be Straw Hats vs the Big Mom pirates. I don't see Luffy beating her though, I expect and outside plot force to push her out of the story once her character arc is resolved.That's actually one of the reasons why I think that at some point she will become allied with the Strawhats. There's plenty reasons why I think so. The first one years ago was because I saw her being Boa Hancocked, meaning I just don't see Luffy beating the crap out of her even though he several times said he would do (he also said he would kick Hancocks ass just a couple of chapters before Hancocks tragic past got revealed and they stopped being enemies). And now we know that Linlin also is not evil at heart but seriously has been on a very long road of doing pretty bad things. Another reason is her entire eating theme. I just don't see her not at some point actually appreciating Sanji for the great cook that he is (the wedding cake being the first step along that road) and if she does, she will have to not be an enemy of the Strawhats anymore either. Lastly, the Big Mom Pirates themselves have shown to be less one dimensional and within their own arc, either caring for each other or even for the citizens of Tottoland. Usually it is within the side stories that the bad guys show some sympathetic qualities to them but here it was while the arc was still running which was actually one of the good things of said arc. All those things considered just make it likely to me that at some point both crews will not be enemies anymore or more respectful rivals. Elbaf seems the likely choice for that to happen.
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If anything i will guess that instead of him making some eternal stand of unforgiving damnation against the Germas, an Oda written Sanji feels more likely to make peace with his family at some point in time, and acknowledge that as manufactured beasts his brothers, while cruel monsters, are also kind of victims in this all and Judge will gradually relent and/or repent and the technology itself will be put to good use and be acknowledged as in essence a good distillation of human ingenuity, which can be perverted, but itself is no more tainted than the user makes it. But we'll see
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If anything i will guess that instead of him making some eternal stand of unforgiving damnation against the Germas, an Oda written Sanji feels more likely to make peace with his family at some point in time, and acknowledge that as manufactured beasts his brothers, while cruel monsters, are also kind of victims in this all and Judge will gradually relent and/or repent and the technology itself will be put to good use and be acknowledged as in essence a good distillation of human ingenuity, which can be perverted, but itself is no more tainted than the user makes it. But we'll see
That's also a good way to look at his character arc. I admit there may be a bit of bias in that, I'd like to see Sanji master haki to keep his place in the 'monster trio' without the technology boost. He could still use the stealth black / invisibility part of the Germa Suit though. That fits perfectly with his past clandestine efforts pretty well.
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All I know is that the raid suit isn't going anywhere lol
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The whole thing with Sanji is…
Didn't he learn 99 Recipes? Didn't one of those include an Attack Boost?
Why not just use those?
Impracticality?Croc or Enel would never.Wanna see the "ancient civilization destroyed" thing done really well? FFXIV did a great take on it. The bar's high for One Piece to beat.
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@Vongola_Boss_XI:
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The FBI cap is to say that you're an FBI agent?
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@lix:
I feel like the biggest problem with Big Moms "danger level" isn´t that she looks like a fool - because she doesn´t…
...it´s people being unable to deal with the fact that we´re not following the same crew anymore. This isn´t the crew that struggled with "guy who goes a little bit fast" and "guy who wears armor" anymore.
This is a crew that took down warlords, waged war with Yonkou, fought of Admirals, trained with legends and saved countries. Many of the enemies they´ve faced early in the series would have shat themselves if they heard that the Strawhats - like they are now - are out for them. It´s a crew that 99% of everybody who sails the seas would NOT try to mess with because they know they´re in another league.
The top fighters are absolute monsters and - way more important, even the absolute "weakest" members are still a very, very, VERY credible threat to most crews out there.
Big Mom is still leagues above them and she´s obviously above Luffy, too, but it´s also not a surprise that not even she can ignore and shrug off the Strawhats at this point. Hell, I´d bet my left asscheck that even Whitebeard, as much as I love the guy - seriously, he´s one of my favorite characters of all time - could ignore them...
They´re just too strong/crafty/clever at this point. There´s NO character in the entire series that could just swat them aside. unless of cause, Oda goes full-on Kaguya on Imu or someone similar and turns him into a literal god, way above the normal powerlevels of the series.
I love this.
The crew are more than competent and can hold their own against the Yonko. And in the world of One Piece in context with everything so far, the Straw Hat crew are a force to be reckoned with.
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Sucks we are not getting kaido vs the minks
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The whole thing with Sanji is…
Didn't he learn 99 Recipes? Didn't one of those include an Attack Boost?
Why not just use those?
Impracticality?Well, he kinda had to pop cooking utensils out of thin air to make it work.
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Imagine if instead of raid suit sanji would find and eat one of the food based fruits. Mochi, flower no mi, cream no mi, anything.
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The whole thing with Sanji is…
Didn't he learn 99 Recipes? Didn't one of those include an Attack Boost?
Why not just use those?
Impracticality?Got pretty obvious that Oda did not know how to incorporate whatever Sanji might have learned during the 2 years. To be fair, it might be premature since technically he still does not have a traditional fight after the timeskip, but from what we have seen, yep, it´s the main reason why the suit came as a blessing, despite the personal implications of using it. Hell´s Memories was used once, Sky Walk is nothing new and something Luffy basically learned as a by-product of G4 (meanwhile being a main ability of Sanji), and Spectre was basically Sanji using his normal DJ kicks inspired by Ivankov´s attacks.
So in that vein, i think the 99 recipes are just a background thing, meaning we are to assume the bodies of the Strawhats get stronger with each time they eat, but has no tangible effect on the pages. -
I'm still waiting for the Okama transformation, though. The one absolute weapon to end all wars that he absolutely refuses to use because of his pride. C'm'on Oda, you can do it. :happy:
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Having to use the suit makes him angry, so we're probably gonna get ''Hell Memories Deluxe: Vinsmoke Edition''.
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This post is deleted!
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I'm rereading WCI (it is already one of those arcs I will keep rereading forever like W7 and ID because of multiple reasons
Buggy, Kaku and Linlin) and the page where Sanji finds Cosette disfigured and unconscious after Niji spanked her really makes me hope Sanji and the Vinsmoke relationship will not become a "tsundere" thing or start being played for humor (like Ishida and Mayuri in Bleach). -
The FBI cap is to say that you're an FBI agent?
:ninja: Maybe…..
(I don't think I'm allowed to impersonate a federal law enforcement officer so for the sake of not incurring any ramifications, I have to clarify that this is a joke. Macklin, you son of a bitch....)
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Break after chapter 990.
[qimg]https://images2.imgbox.com/1e/a0/inRNq4bh_o.jpg[/qimg]
Awwww man :sad:
Well hopefully this weeks chapter is a particularly good one
Thanks for the heads up Redon
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I wonder where Kaido had been imprisoned in the past. From the very start of Kaido’s introduction, we have known that he has been defeated as a pirate seven times, been captured by the Navy or his enemies around 18 times and has lived as a prisoner before. Kaido was tortured over a thousand times and was sentenced to death forty times and yet nothing done to him was able to kill him. From that introduction, we can surmise that Kaido was in his enemies hand’s for a notable amount of time. What we have yet to have revealed beyond why Kaido is so “unkillable” is where and when exactly he was held as a prisoner and by whom. When looking at what has been featured so far across the story since Kaido’s arrival onto the pages, I find myself reaching the conclusion that at one point in Kaido past, over 33 years ago, he was held as a prisoner on Punk Hazard and experimented on.
I suspect during the events on God Valley (38 years ago), Rocks betrayed his crew in an attempt to escape when he realised they couldn’t defeat Roger and Garp and as a result of that betrayal, Kaido (whom respected Rocks and was left in a state of shock) was captured by the Marines and taken to the World Government research facility on Punk Hazard. Since that moment, Kaido’s perception of pirates and the world became warped. Personally, I do not believe Kaido had Ancient Giant DNA injected into him while being experimented on but rather I believe Kaido was linked to the Ancient Giants from birth through his blood - Kaido’s younger self silhouette from his Rocks Pirates days showed him with Ancient Giant-type horns at that time. Kaido could be a very unique variant of the Ancient Giant or only part Ancient Giant (his base form isn't as large but when he transforms into a Dragon, possibly his Ancient Giant genes kick in to enlarge the Dragon form).
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Ultimately, it was likely Big Mom who help free Kaido from Punk Hazard. Big Mom had mentioned to Kaido before leaving for Wano Kuni of a debt Kaido owes her from the past. Could the debt she is referring to be the time she saved him from the World Government Science research facility stationed on Punk Hazard? That certainly would count as something Kaido would owe Big Mom big time for. If this is the case, this could explain why Big Mom knows about the Punk Hazard research such as the gigantification experiments. They were part of the same crew prior to the God Valley incident, so before their relationship eroded into what it is today, Big Mom may have felt desire to help Kaido as a result of the kinship they once shared.!
Big Mom’s time on Punk Hazard may have also been where she attained a copy of the Punk Hazard lab blueprints.After Kaido escaped, the World Government scientist could have used the existing research and DNA samples of Kaido (if he is part Ancient Giant) or any future samples they procured from Kaido on subsequent captures to conduct their research on the Ancient Giant creation project - at least over 20 years ago considering Jaki is present during Oden's flashback. Kaido’s DNA and any other Ancient Giant samples the Punk Hazard scientist had may have been used as the foundation for experimenting on the prisoners they had as test subjects (failed Numbers experiments). It would explain why the "Numbers" ended up developing certain features and tendencies similar to Kaido, mainly the horns and the love for alcohol. Kaido and the Numbers also share in the use of the same type of weapon – kanabō. Kaido could have realised the connection he had with the "Numbers" when they went up for sale on the black market and consequently purchased them as Big Mom mentions this chapter.
Lets take that one step further. In addition to the Numbers, I can see Dragon Number Thirteen and the smaller dragon being based on Kaido’s DNA assuming he had his Mythical Dragon Zoan Devil Fruit while a member of the Rocks Pirates. The naming convention of the Numbers and Dragon Number Thirteen suggest some connection regardless of the Dragon being named by a Tenryuubito. Once Dr. Vegapunk joined the World Government, which would have been after Kaido escaped, he could have used the research and samples on Kaido to conduct his experiments on gigantification (Ancient Giants) and on his own research involving dragons.
Ultimately though, Dr. Vegapunk was unsuccessful in his gigantification experiments (Numbers?) though he did succeed in producing dragons via Dragon Number Thirteen and the smaller version Dragon. Dr. Vegapunk has already shown his capability in isolating Devil Fruit powers by utilising the Pika Pika no Mi to develop the explosive lasers for the Pacifista. He may have first attained that knowledge through the experiments done utilising Kaido’s DNA samples and research. The reason the Dragons survived the Shinokuni poison from four years ago when Caesar activated his weapon and the battle between Sakazuki and Kuzan could be the result of having Kaido’s DNA. The DNA would have also allowed those experiments to breathe fire and attain their thick skin.
And even beyond that, there is the possibility that Queen and King were also prisoners on Punk Hazard being experimented on. With Queen, that scar running down his right shoulder and chest could be the result of experiments, particularly because of its stitched nature. Queen may have also developed an interest in weapons and viruses because of his exposure to the World Government science labs. King is an interesting case due to the rare race he belongs to but I wonder if the experiments done on him caused his wings to turn black and to produce the plume of fire rising from his back. Taking King's appearance into account, it seems possible that he may have been experimented on. The experiments on King could have caused an issue with his skin which is why he now covers his whole body and wears a full-faced mask. King’s suit could be something he acquired from Punk Hazard. Additionally, if Dr. Vegapunk had access to King’s DNA samples, he may have used it in conjunction with Kaido’s DNA to help add wings to the Dragons he created. As a result of Kaido freeing the two of them, they may have swore their allegiance to him and been the start of the Beast Pirates. This could be one way to tie Kaido, King and Queen's backstory together to quicken the pace of the Wano Kuni Arc story.
Turning to Dr. Vegapunk's Artificial Devil Fruit, he likely based it off Kaido's Mythical Dragon Zoan Devil Fruit. The resemblance in Kaido’s and Momonosuke's Dragon transformation seems too homologous to be coincidental. I believe Kaido’s DNA (including his Dragon aspect) was used as the base to create a Dragon which in turn was used to create the Artificial Devil Fruit. Dr. Vegapunk would have likely used his (and Judge’s) findings on the Lineage Factor to isolate the Dragon aspect of Kaido’s Devil Fruit via the DNA sample to base his research on the Dragons and eventually the Artificial Devil Fruit project.
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Just my thoughts on the connections between Kaido, Big Mom, Punk Hazard and the Numbers.
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I think Kaido was an experiment in Punk Hazard before Rocks. Rocks pirates, in their pursue for secret knowledge of the world, ended up there, and Big Mom decided to free him.
Kaido was just an apprentice in the Rocks Pirates, after all, thus he was quite young and unexperienced. My guess is that, as a monster, he was accepted. He hated the world and hates existance, and his experiences among the Rocks defined how he would see pirates and alliances between them.
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My problem with the theory of "Kaido" being enhanced from an experiment and having Ancient Giant DNA instilled into him is that his "power" would have been achieved without the efforts of Dr. Vegapunk thus positioning the scientist(s) that did achieve the "Kaido" we see now as being more successful than Dr. Vegapunk's attempts at recreating the power of an Ancient Giant once he began working for the World Government/Marines. From what I can deduce, Dr. Vegapunk came into the employment of the World Government/Marines around 21-25 years ago. Vinsmoke Judge already separated from Dr. Vegapunk when Sanji and his three brothers were in Sora's womb (around 21-22 years ago), so Dr. Vegapunk would have been caught by the Marines at least before that. And seeing as Caesar was also associated with Judge, presumably during Judge's time with Dr. Vegapunk, I don't see the rogue research group ceasing to exist later than 25 years ago as it would make Caesar less than 15 years old. Caesar was likely 15-19 when he was associated with Judge and Dr. Vegapunk as their apprentice/assistant/intern. Any younger would make it…strange...
Additionally, it was Dr. Vegapunk and Judge who first discovered the Lineage Factor, most likely around 25+ years ago. If the World Government/Marine scientist(s) were the ones who turned Kaido into what he is by instilling Ancient Giant DNA into him, they would have been ones who discovered the Lineage Factor first - Kaido’s younger self silhouette from his Rocks Pirates days 39+ years ago showed him with Ancient Giant-type horns. As that did not happen, I highly doubt Kaido's DNA was modified to transform him into a part Ancient Giant. This is why I believe Kaido contained Ancient Giant DNA from birth and it was Vegapunk who used his DNA to base his future research on - gigantification, dragons and artificial devil fruit - once he became part of the World Government/Marines.
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My problem with the theory of "Kaido" being enhanced from an experiment and having Ancient Giant DNA instilled into him is that his "power" would have been achieved without the efforts of Dr. Vegapunk thus positioning the scientist(s) that did achieve the "Kaido" we see now as being more successful than Dr. Vegapunk's attempts at recreating the power of an Ancient Giant once he began working for the World Government/Marines. From what I can deduce, Dr. Vegapunk came into the employment of the World Government/Marines around 21-25 years ago. Vinsmoke Judge already separated from Dr. Vegapunk when Sanji and his three brothers were in Sora's womb (around 21-22 years ago), so Dr. Vegapunk would have been caught by the Marines at least before that. And seeing as Caesar was also associated with Judge, presumably during Judge's time with Dr. Vegapunk, I don't see the rogue research group ceasing to exist later than 25 years ago as it would make Caesar less than 15 years old. Caesar was likely 15-19 when he was associated with Judge and Dr. Vegapunk as their apprentice/assistant/intern. Any younger would make it…strange...
Additionally, it was Dr. Vegapunk and Judge who first discovered the Lineage Factor, most likely around 25+ years ago. If the World Government/Marine scientist(s) were the ones who turned Kaido into what he is by instilling Ancient Giant DNA into him, they would have been ones who discovered the Lineage Factor first - Kaido’s younger self silhouette from his Rocks Pirates days 39+ years ago showed him with Ancient Giant-type horns. As that did not happen, I highly doubt Kaido's DNA was modified to transform him into a part Ancient Giant. This is why I believe Kaido contained Ancient Giant DNA from birth and it was Vegapunk who used his DNA to base his future research on - gigantification, dragons and artificial devil fruit - once he became part of the World Government/Marines.
This is a good analysis; Plus it makes Kaido and Big Mom's origins very similar. Big Mom's power would be natural and Kaido's artificial in this scenario, but both would be tied to the same attempt to recruit giant soldiers by the world government. To have both similarly victimized would make Kaido's origins less unique…. though we don't actually know anything about them at this point in time.
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Just my thoughts on the connections between Kaido, Big Mom, Punk Hazard and the Numbers.
Really like this theory! Would certainly tie together some more arcs/characters, and actually give a bit of a sympathetic background to Kaido and explain his desire to topple the WG. Keeps the longstanding "there is no black and white, just shades of gray" thought in the OP world. Well done!
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In an unrelated note. Damn, middle age hits people hard in One Piece. Pound, Big Mom, every tiny old man samurai. Everyone goes from total adonis to gonk in a decade or two. I finally understand why they're all prancing about in swimsuits and underwear, gotta appreciate that v-chest and hourglass figure while you still can.
