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    Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

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    • Zik
      Zik @Ghidorah Guy
      @Ghidorah Guy last edited by
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      @Ghidorah:

      You betcha. With the focus possibly shifting to other locations throughout…and possibly another mid-length/mini arc(s) being initiated, with its own resolution coinciding with that of Wano. Very atypical narrative structure, but one that'd allow Oda to more efficiently nip multiple storylines in the bud in one go.

      Basically, Shiki's coming back, and the Strawhats are gonna have to deal with him ontop of everything. His return would also tie to the encroaching Final War, which has arguably already started. And the Rocks, Captain Rocks themselves, Blackbeard, Vegapunk, the Revolutionaries, Germa, the SSG...with Kaido, Toki, and Wano's backstory set to present a deep dive and revealing insight into the history of the One Piece world world at large.

      As alluded to by Sengoku ( and by extension Oda himself ), Wano is indeed the center point for a great many things. Hence, the "bloated" length and meticulous setup; there's still a lot left to unpack, but it will ultimately line up many ducks in a row for the final phase of the One Piece journey.

      So yes, however it goes, expect an extra year or thereabouts of Wano itself at bare minimum, imo. But like I said, anyone concerned w/ Wano fatigue need not worry, as there'd likely be a crapload of other places, people, and locales receiving focus all throughout....and a shitload of awesome developments to come.

      But again, that's just my heavily calculated speculation. I'm not going to argue the issue, or claim it's sure to happen. We'll see soon enough what'll happen in print, won't we?

      Most or all of the Strawhats are getting captured, tortured in Wano's own underground version of Impel Down ( where Black Mariah was born, and King presides ), with some possibly being scattered or relocated elsewhere ( Luffy becoming Kaido's new personal "project" ). More or less part of what I see transpiring.

      One or a few Strawhats may eventually escape Wano and follow in the Scabbards' footsteps ( blatant parallel ) in searching for allies to come help...something Luffy and Co. should've thought to do before embarking on a mission to take on a Yonko. In that sense, they've committed the same error as Oden and Co. way back in the day, which is the point. So it's time for a course correction following a harsh lesson in falling to hubris.

      In turn, I suspect this is how the Strawhat Grandfleet finally enters the picture at some point...it's now the Strawhats turn to step up and ask for help, just as Luffy has prompted from both Vivi and Momo in the past.

      C'est the vida

      I won't splurge into thesis-level detail, but just think of it as a metaphorical reclamation of the childhoods that were "lost," to various degrees. Maybe I'm getting far too ahead of myself here, but I'll just say I think we''ll be seeing Oda exploring this theme in some length not just through the lens of Momo and Yamato, but other characters such as Big Mom and Hiyori...all falling under the umbrella of the greater over-arching themes of returning to the past/starting point, reclaiming the past, turning back the clock, cycles, second chances.....the list goes on; Oda's juggling a confounding number of thematic plates.

      The theme of miracles and wish-granting will also be a major thing as we approach the true finale...particularly as it pertains to the legends of wish-granting dragons. That's all I'll say on that front.

      Anyways, as to the exact method of Momo and Yamato getting de-aged, without going into full detail as to the plot-related why's, it remains to be seen, but my initial guess is that Bonney will enter the stage at some point as several plotlines begin to converge in Wano, and thereby have a hand in things. That, or as I alluded to before, it could fall under the umbrella of several "miraculous" things going down by Wano's end.

      Yeah this is like full blown fanfiction and not likely to happen. The amount of detail in this already is setting yourself up to be pretty wrong in this prediction.

      I'm leaning towards Wano concluding much sooner than later. Plus there's really no indication things are about to go on for even longer.

      Zik Of The 7 Swords: Vision? What do you know about my vision? My vision would turn your world upside down, tear asunder your illusions, and send the sanctuary of your own ignorance crashing down around you. Now ask yourself, Are you ready to see that vision?

      Last.fm

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      • rayleigh92
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        Wow. Can't say I didn't appreciate the effort of such a theory, but it's as far as it can be by my opinion on this arc. And I am generally not a fan of the "Oda will totally subvert expectations" as just like he's always been able to surprise readers, he also often stick to some inner tropes (for example, I'd really be surprised if we'll get one arc one without the timebomb escamotage).

        I'll try to fanfic the rest of Wano Saga too. We're clearly in the one-but-last part of the battle, the one where the highest ranks of the enemy group are going to fall leaving Luffy and Kaido to fight alone. In this part we're going to see all villains be defeated and the eventual Nine Shadows formation happens in front of Kaido, just to get disrupted by the urge to stop Onigashima by falling. The scene will switch to Wano with Luffy following Kaido which will go for Wano's secret/Red PG.

        Here's the another of Oda's tropes: "let's obstacle the allies by joining Luffy's solo fight". I actually thought of this back when Apoo referred to Numbers usually creating havoc on cities. I think the sober Numbers will be spread along the whole Wano and the few allies which are still able to fight will go to stop them. Orochi will makes his move against Kaido, just to be stopped and finally defeated by Denjiro/Hiyori. Luffy vs Kaido happens. Kaido is eventually going to achieve his own honorable death (can't really see it happens by Luffy's hands, but I can effortly see this being the exception in the whole manga). The final fight will unveil some plot-relevant shit, like Red PG, Wano's secret, Kaido's FB, something about Rocks and who know what else which will lead to the post arc.

        At some point we'll have Kid and Law having a hard time against BM but also BM having a hard time against them. If she'll eventually be rescued by her crew or defeated (can't really see the latter happens btw) depends on what Oda has in mind for her future and I can't really figure that far.

        About the post-arc I have more wild fanfictionary theories which I'll share here for sake of. Trope: the usual "post-arc a new force join the stage". I can see Marines waiting near Wano for Drake's green light and with Kaido's fall they will actually use Beasts Pirates' rear entrance to show up. Among them we could finally see the Scientific Division, with Sentomaru (which used Ryuo back then, so being from Wano would be totally not a surprise) and Vegapunk going to deal with the whole mess he actually did and set for the arc (Numbers, SMILEs, Momonosuke, Queen and who know what else again). This could be the chance to have Vegapunk on the stage without having a whole arc dedicated to him (as Wano is already like totally tied to him). We'll get infos about Kuma, Bonney, Sabo, Warlords and several set-up for next one (or few) arcs. Yamato joins the crew. Totally totally totally fan-point: when they'll get to party for the new nakama, Carrot will show up having sneaked in just like back to Zou and will be part (officially or unofficially) of the next adventures.

        Originally Posted by rayleigh92

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        • G
          Ghidorah Guy @Zik
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          @Zik:

          Yeah this is like full blown fanfiction and not likely to happen. The amount of detail in this already is setting yourself up to be pretty wrong in this prediction.

          I'm leaning towards Wano concluding much sooner than later. Plus there's really no indication things are about to go on for even longer.

          16 characters of shrug

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          • Deicide
            Deicide @Syphin
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            @Syphin:

            I'm just curious but what would Hancock's reason be for joining the Straw Hat Pirates if she were to become a member?

            I was at one point interested in seeing her become a Straw Hat Pirate during the events leading up to the Battle of Marineford but once I seen Jinbe in action during that war, he won me over. I do like Hancock as a character but considering her current story role and position, I am struggling to see where the potential of her path could lead in terms of nakama status. Would the abolition of the Shichibukai system and what happens on Amazon Lily be what provides a redefined foundation for Hancock to move forward on?

            Here's my reasoning. My actual theory isn't so much her joining, but her character arc. She would join as a result of that.

            Way back in Amazon Lily/Impel Down/Marineford, a lot of foreshadowing (I assume) was put on Hancock losing her status, dooming Amazon Lily. She's also deeply connected with the darkness of the World Government due to her secret past. So, back then I was expecting her to lose her title, Amazon Lily to be attacked, and those events lead to her flashback, which would at least contain the Fisher Tiger portion.

            Things didn't happen as I expected at the time, but ever since we've been getting hints of still happening: Jinbe's flashback skips the part that I would expect in Hancock's flashback; The looming Reverie and Fujitora's plan to abolish the Warlords. The Celestial Dragon and slavery plot fading from the main story until recently.

            And then, boom, everything happened at once. Warlords are over, Amazon Lily is attacked, and, now, we are getting signs of a Mary Geoise or Red Line arc (CP-0, Sun God Nika, Lunarian race).

            So, the character arc I'm expecting for her is:

            • She's captured. Most likely, because she must protect her people, so she either surrenders to spare her island or stays behind to cover their escape.
            • She's brought to Impel Down. But, as explained in the ID arc, every inmate is stripped naked for the baptism bath in boiling water. That's when her secret is found out.
            • Her secret leaks out and becomes huge news. She's sent to Mary Geoise as a slave, her master yet to be determined.
            • Luffy, upon knowing of this, decides to return to the Red Line to rescue her. There will also be other motives attached to the return: Sabo, Vivi (whatever their status), and even a need to visit Raijin Island, which is close to the Red Line and I believe is one of the points indicated by a Red Poneglyph, so we need to make an Eternal Pose to it.
            • Here things get blurry because it's the meat of the arc, but during it I expect us to, in any order, (1) explore Hancock's past, seeing her dreams as a child before slavery, her struggles to protect her sisters as a slave, how they got their fruits, meeting Fisher Tiger, the escape, Rayleigh and Shakky, and (2) upon rescue, she makes peace with her past. I kinda expect that her former master is Donquixonte Mjosgard, and that even he will help her.

            So, at the end of the arc, where she goes? She can't go back home, as it would make it a huge target again. So, I figure she will need to do go somewhere else, and chase whatever childhood dream she had once. Whatever her decision, it will be blessed by her sisters and the Kuja, who want her to be happy. That's where I figure there's a chance she stays with the Straw Hats. I can't take of any other possible fate except joining the Revolutionaries, but there's zero link between her and them (however, the arc itself could provide such link).

            Given all her layers, story and gags, I find her a little too complex for a secondary character. And there's where I find the meta-hints interesting: Nami's two outfits in Logue Town (one for Robin, another for Hancock), Nami imitating Hancock's signature "you'll forgive me because I'm pretty" routinne in Thriller Bark, the color spread in the chapter that introduces Hancock (and is titled after her), colorspreads done by Oda like the ones I'll link bellow, her fascinated comment upon seeing Oars fall (will she be in Elbaf?) and how she triggered both Smoker and Sentoumaru (both of which will probably be in Vegapunk's arc. I wouldn't be surprised if she fights Sentoumaru at some point). Plus, Catarina Devon's theme of hunting down beautiful women, her fawning followers we saw in Chapter 925 and melee-oriented fighting style makes her feel like a counterpart to Hancock, and even her power to change shape may be used for exploiting Hancock's traumas or her love for Luffy.

            I even feel her going to Rusukaina to bring Luffy after the timeskip was not their first meeting in two years. She's far more confortable around him, able to express her feelings, and he's fully aware of her marriage proposal, as if she asked it more than once before. And Rayleigh left the island six months prior, so I feel the connection between Luffy and Hancock is already deeper than we think.

            Of course, all of that depends on the aforementioned arc happening. If it doesn't happen, she doesn't join. If it happens, maybe she join. That's my prediction.

            As for colors spreads, Hancock is often portrayed as special by Oda when he has a chance to draw her in them:

            !

            Wano predictions: There will be 5 acts; All Straw Hats will get fights, some in Act 4; Big Mom Pirates will arrive; Carrot will have her moment, but won't join; Yamato will be a Kouzuki samurai and Wano's Guardian; Shanks will visit Luffy in Act 5; Next arc is Mary Geoise.

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            • C
              Chams @Deicide
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              @Deicide:

              Thank you Oda, for giving me at least a glimpse of what I think will be the complete crew (sans the departed).
              https://i.imgur.com/PuYRwBw.jpg

              Yeah, I know it proves nothing, but I'm so happy for that image. :wub: :wub: :wub: :wub:

              EDIT: Changed image since I forgot Franky in the other one. 😞 Sorry, Franky!)

              If the poster contains clues about character affiliations should we assume that Carrot will join the marines or Blackbeard? (Carrot as the 11th Titan Captain, you heard it here first)

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              • Deicide
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                @Chams:

                If the poster contains clues about character affiliations should we assume that Carrot will join the marines or Blackbeard? (Carrot as the 11th Titan Captain, you heard it here first)

                My take is that Oda's brain, even unconsciously, tries to place characters where they "fit" for whatever subtle reason. He is not trying to spoil things, it's only how he gets satisfied with the composition.

                My interpretation is that Hancock is there, defending the treasure, because she is important to the Straw Hats. Not due to any story told, but due to the stories still in Oda's mind. Does that mean joining? No, but the possibility is there.

                Yamato or Carrot, on the other hand, were placed far away from the SHs. Does that mean they can't join? No. But it may point out that Oda does not feel like they fit with them. Yamato was placed in a natural place for him, with Oden and near Kaido. So maybe, at least for now, Yamato is in Oda's mind more related to Wano than the SHs. However, maybe Oda does plan to turn him a SH and is actively trying to not spoil the story, thought, so his mind settled for the next best place.

                But Carrot's position is really weird, IMO. Before the pieces came out, I expected her to be in a position like Law's: a close ally, but not that close. Instead she was put far away. Why? I can't tell. There's no characters linked to her around. Is it because Oda couldn't find a good spot so that's the only place left for her? Is it because Oda wanted to point the opposition of Carrot and Yamato's chances? Or could it be even a "both", by placing them on different sides? Or a neither?

                Well, I can't tell for sure for Yamato or Carrot. But Hancock being where she is, one of the few allies standing on the treasure, just by the side of the SHs? Oh, that's really cool for me.

                Addendum:
                Another consideration to make is that, while Oda chose some characters to be in this poster, many are there just because of the Top 50. You can see many oddly placed characters like Reiju, Woop Slap or Rayleigh. Even Vivi and Bon Kurei are placed in the far back, more token representations than any importance given to them. I wouldn’t be surprised if Carrot’s position is due to her not being that important to Oda, but still put in the forefront due to her high position in the polls.

                Wano predictions: There will be 5 acts; All Straw Hats will get fights, some in Act 4; Big Mom Pirates will arrive; Carrot will have her moment, but won't join; Yamato will be a Kouzuki samurai and Wano's Guardian; Shanks will visit Luffy in Act 5; Next arc is Mary Geoise.

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                • L
                  langitbarat
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                  Been awhile since I posted here.

                  Yamato's abilities have been shown more frequently, some of them are ice themed.

                  If the prediction about Aokiji as the 10th BB captain true, then it's a good point for Yamato. Both are roughly equal in strength and have the same element.

                  Especially when Aokiji's nick is "blue pheasant". If you look up blue pheasant, that animal color scheme matches Yamato : red, green, blue mixing.

                  Ice vs Ice
                  Blue pheasant vs Blue pheasant.

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                  • StrawHatJedi
                    StrawHatJedi @Deicide
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                    @Deicide:

                    I use Gimp as well. It's easy:

                    • Create a layer over the image
                    • On the new layer Use white color and a soft brush to paint around the characters. Don't worry too much about making it right in first try
                    • Now, on the same layer, use an Eraser with a soft brush over the characters to adjust the borders around them. Alternate brush (around the characters) and eraser (over the characters) as many times as you wish until it feels you nailed it.
                    • Once you finish defining the borders, duplicate your upper layer with the white painting.
                    • On the mid layer, change mode to "Color" so the white areas will make become Black and White over the original pic.
                    • On the top layer, change opacity to 50% so the Black and White area gets less contrast.
                    • Done!

                    Awesome, thanks!

                    Luffy, Zoro, Nami, Usopp, Sanji, Chopper, Robin, Franky, Brook, Jimbei, Carrot, Vivi, Smoker

                    "ONE PIECE, IT EXISTS" - The Great Pirate Edward Newgate

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                    • starlalilymoon
                      starlalilymoon @Megadoomer
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                      I apologize for the really late reply.

                      @Megadoomer:

                      It could be a sign that Yamato's joining, but it could also be taking advantage of Yamato's massive popularity. (seeing as she placed eleventh in a worldwide popularity poll before even appearing in the anime) From what I've read, Law was treated in a similar way in earlier pieces of merchandise.

                      Hmm, I didn't know that about Law. I guess it really is coincidence, with how the story is hinting at Yamato joining and the merchandising. I do plan to at least get the Yamato towel after I move in real life, she really is one of my favorite characters in Wano, with Tama being second.

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                      • electricmastro
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                        So in addition to going out to sea with Luffy, Yamato wants to not be alone, have people who believe in her, and have people who accept her, all while being free. I suppose that lends to a little more potential towards Yamato joining the crew.

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                        • Gizmo
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                          Just wanna point out in the official release for chapter 1025, Luffy calls Yamato Yamao, despite knowing Yamato knew Ace, knowing Yamato’s backstory essentially, relying on Yamato to look after Momo, and being impressed with Yamato’s fighting skills (being able to hold off Kaidou).

                          Usually Luffy as a sign of respect for a crew member would use their full name instead of a nickname (volume 96). And given all Luffy knows about Yamato I dunno what key bit of info would need to turn the tide for Luffy to go from nickname to not nickname at this poin

                          Originally Posted by Nightwing

                          Stay focused, cause right now you have a decision to make. Are you a man perpetually looking back at what he’s lost, or a man looking forward, to what he might become?

                          Jabra electricmastro Zik 3 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • Jabra
                            Jabra @Gizmo
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                            @Gizmo:

                            Usually Luffy as a sign of respect for a crew member would use their full name instead of a nickname (volume 96). And given all Luffy knows about Yamato I dunno what key bit of info would need to turn the tide for Luffy to go from nickname to not nickname at this poin

                            I could see Yamato taking on a completely new name once everything is said and done. Not Oden, not the name he got from his father, but something he chooses for himself.

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                            • TLC
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                              Luffy also didn't get Brook's, Chopper's or Robin's name right until after they joined. He consistently got Brook's name wrong or called him Skeleton, constantly referred to Chopper as "Reindeer" and didn't even know Robin's name when she joined. If Yamato asks Luffy to join which he already has stated he wants to do multiple times, Luffy (the guy who asked a zombie tree and zombie unicorn to join on first sight) has no reason to say no, and that's where Luffy will have the opportunity to get to know the person and start referring to them with their proper name.

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                              • ArmamentHero
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                                Oda tried to pull a sneaky in there by not letting Luffy see his DF form.:ninja:

                                Here’s how Naruto should end: Last panel is Naruto standing proudly over Konohagakure. Slowly zoom out to reveal Luffy staring into a snowglobe with a miniature Konoha inside it. Usopp asks him what he’s doing. Luffy replies “Thinkin’ bout ninjas! Ninjas are cool!” and then chucks it off the ship

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                                • electricmastro
                                  electricmastro @Gizmo
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                                  @Gizmo:

                                  Just wanna point out in the official release for chapter 1025, Luffy calls Yamato Yamao, despite knowing Yamato knew Ace, knowing Yamato’s backstory essentially, relying on Yamato to look after Momo, and being impressed with Yamato’s fighting skills (being able to hold off Kaidou).

                                  Usually Luffy as a sign of respect for a crew member would use their full name instead of a nickname (volume 96). And given all Luffy knows about Yamato I dunno what key bit of info would need to turn the tide for Luffy to go from nickname to not nickname at this poin

                                  Usually Luffy calls people by their full names after they’ve made a particular big impression on him, like how he called Katakuri by his full name for example.

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                                  • DarthAsthma
                                    DarthAsthma @ArmamentHero
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                                    @ArmamentHero:

                                    Oda tried to pull a sneaky in there by not letting Luffy see his DF form.:ninja:

                                    That was so on the nose timing wise.
                                    I feel like that's going to pay off in Luffy star eyes at some point but maybe I'm wrong.

                                    ArmamentHero electricmastro 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • ArmamentHero
                                      ArmamentHero @DarthAsthma
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                                      @DarthAsthma:

                                      That was so on the nose timing wise.
                                      I feel like that's going to pay off in Luffy star eyes at some point but maybe I'm wrong.

                                      Who wouldn't get starry eyes from a big deified wolf?

                                      I'm in the same boat here.

                                      Here’s how Naruto should end: Last panel is Naruto standing proudly over Konohagakure. Slowly zoom out to reveal Luffy staring into a snowglobe with a miniature Konoha inside it. Usopp asks him what he’s doing. Luffy replies “Thinkin’ bout ninjas! Ninjas are cool!” and then chucks it off the ship

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                                      • electricmastro
                                        electricmastro @DarthAsthma
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                                        @DarthAsthma:

                                        That was so on the nose timing wise.
                                        I feel like that's going to pay off in Luffy star eyes at some point but maybe I'm wrong.

                                        Might not be for awhile then since Luffy is focused on defeating Kaido at this point, similar to how Luffy didn’t get excited over Franky being a cyborg the first time they met because of what happened with Usopp.

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                                        • Deicide
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                                          This and last chapter filled some of the checkboxes I expected for Yamato joining, but left a lot still blank.

                                          PROS:

                                          • Luffy not yet seeing Yamato's DF power (potential for starry eyes later);
                                          • More hints of Yamato's past (but it feels like there's not much left to cover);
                                          • Yamato getting a few new battle moves. That was sorely needed, especially the ice-themed ones.

                                          CONS:

                                          • Yamato's past being glanced over small panels.
                                          • The story seemingly setting up Kaido's past by hinting at his prejudices.
                                          • Yamato so close to strength to Luffy and so far above anyone else.

                                          Some comments:

                                          I'm on a weird border between: "Is that it? Is that all the Yamato development we got from his fight with Kaido?" and "Oh, maybe it will be expanded further on the team battle or after it".

                                          One of the translations made Kaido imply Yamato wanted to be accepted by the samurai. I was going to write it as a potential complement to Yamato wanting to be a samurai last week, but the official translation is different, so I'll void this point for now.

                                          With both Luffy and Momo present, it almost feels like it's a chance for Yamato to better know both and put them in the balance, as there's both the desire to go to sea and the "Wano's guardian" theme that maybe be building up (subject to interpretation).

                                          Anyway, at least there were some points added towards Yamato joining.

                                          Wano predictions: There will be 5 acts; All Straw Hats will get fights, some in Act 4; Big Mom Pirates will arrive; Carrot will have her moment, but won't join; Yamato will be a Kouzuki samurai and Wano's Guardian; Shanks will visit Luffy in Act 5; Next arc is Mary Geoise.

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                                          • Gizmo
                                            Gizmo @TLC
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                                            @TLC:

                                            Luffy also didn't get Brook's, Chopper's or Robin's name right until after they joined. He consistently got Brook's name wrong, constantly referred to Chopper as "Reindeer" and didn't even know Robin's name when she joined. If Yamato asks Luffy to join which he already has stated he wants to do multiple times, Luffy (the guy who asked a zombie tree and zombie unicorn to join on first sight) has no reason to say no, and that's where Luffy will have the opportunity to get to know the person and start referring to them with their proper name.

                                            Luffy used Brook’s correct name from the moment he woke up from getting captured and sent back to the Sunny with Zoro/Sanji (before finding about his backstory with Brook). Luffy also called him Brook when asking him for the favor when fighting Oars.

                                            For Robin and Chopper, I would argue Oda wasn’t as hard pressed with those rules as he is now, but to make counterpoints…

                                            Robin is a weird case because she wasn’t even on Luffy’s radar as a crew member until she snuck on and essentially asked to be on his crew, and Luffy I don’t think called her anything, name or nickname. He only used an incorrect name when they first met because he didn’t know his name properly, but he didn’t call him a nickname.

                                            And Luffy didn’t even know Chopper’s name until after the flag scene when he announced it (though not to Luffy) and had his fight. And yes, from translations he called Chopper reindeer instead of his name, but it wasn’t a nickname from what I got.

                                            Originally Posted by Nightwing

                                            Stay focused, cause right now you have a decision to make. Are you a man perpetually looking back at what he’s lost, or a man looking forward, to what he might become?

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                                            • Long John Silvers Rayleigh
                                              Long John Silvers Rayleigh
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                                              I just keep getting the feeling lately that Yamato is almost too cool to join

                                              Chapter 437 Discussion after franky decides to join the Strawhats:

                                              So who think Usopp is inside that duffelbag?

                                              H x H Chimera Ant Arc / OP Manga Spoiler

                                              Spoiler:

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                                              • Gizmo
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                                                @electricmastro:

                                                Usually Luffy calls people by their full names after they’ve made a particular big impression on him, like how he called Katakuri by his full name for example.

                                                but that’s what I’m going with. Look at all that Luffy knows about Yamato, and he just learned Yamato kept Kaidou fighting to a standstill and did a combo attack with Yamato. Yet he still called Yamato Yamao…

                                                Originally Posted by Nightwing

                                                Stay focused, cause right now you have a decision to make. Are you a man perpetually looking back at what he’s lost, or a man looking forward, to what he might become?

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                                                • BobLoblaw
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                                                  I won't get tied up into what exactly Luffy calls Yamato at this point because that's something that could easily change. The biggest hurdle I have now is how freaking strong Yamato is. Ace wasn't lying about Yamato being a captain. He's clearly fighting on an even playing field with a guy who's literally fought more than a dozen characters all while carrying an island. He's even drawing blood against Kaido.

                                                  Zoro and Sanji have always been the two strongest SHs and even now, they're fighting the top two commanders to equal what Luffy just did in WCI. Jinbe was intentionally given a lesser opponent in order for them to again establish themselves as the "wings" of the future PK. That means Jinbe's basically being slotted in behind them.

                                                  I find it extremely hard to believe that after all these years and all the feats those two have accomplished that a new character will suddenly be introduced that outclasses them. Hell, people have already forgotten how Jinbe was held back for years just to get Zoro and Sanji to where they are today when they can technically outrank him (on land) from a strength perspective.

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                                                  • Deicide
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                                                    @Gizmo:

                                                    but that’s what I’m going with. Look at all that Luffy knows about Yamato, and he just learned Yamato kept Kaidou fighting to a standstill and did a combo attack with Yamato. Yet he still called Yamato Yamao…

                                                    I think the same, thought things can still change. If by the end of the fight it's still "Yamao", then it's over.

                                                    However, it's of note that "Yamao" ("Yama-dude") is kinda like Luffy calls his rivals, like "Torao" ("Tra-guy") or <insert kid's="" nickname="" here,="" i="" can't="" find="" it="">("Jaggy").</insert>

                                                    Wano predictions: There will be 5 acts; All Straw Hats will get fights, some in Act 4; Big Mom Pirates will arrive; Carrot will have her moment, but won't join; Yamato will be a Kouzuki samurai and Wano's Guardian; Shanks will visit Luffy in Act 5; Next arc is Mary Geoise.

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                                                    • DarthAsthma
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                                                      People that think Jinbe was held back because of Zoro/Sanji are kind of backwards in my eyes. Because it's like ignoring how Jinbe being held back actually solves an actual story problem which is power creep. Every battle shonen story struggles with this the longer it runs.
                                                      If Jinbe joined post fishman island there is an argument about how difficult it would be for Oda do consistently escalate/trickery against the base level of the crew including Jinbe without it coming off toriko level ridiculous at some point.
                                                      Notice how Jinbe joined up during WCI right when the conflict was against one of the build up major threats. He's been a consistent player ever since the yonko beef started.
                                                      Maybe that's wrong and Oda really spends a lot of brain power on making sure to uphold the monster trio dynamic although based on the manga alone I've not gotten the feel Oda cares that much about power hierarchies beyond making sure people fear the main villain of any given arc in some way.
                                                      But if I had to bet based on the decision being based on narrative progression vs upholding a strength dynamic I'd bet on the former.

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                                                      • electricmastro
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                                                        @Deicide:

                                                        I think the same, thought things can still change. If by the end of the fight it's still "Yamao", then it's over.

                                                        However, it's of note that "Yamao" ("Yama-dude") is kinda like Luffy calls his rivals, like "Torao" ("Tra-guy") or <insert kid's="" nickname="" here,="" i="" can't="" find="" it="">("Jaggy").</insert>

                                                        Yeah, can’t recall if Luffy said “Law”, but I just remember things like “Tra-guy”.

                                                        –- Update From New Post Merge ---

                                                        @BobLoblaw:

                                                        Zoro and Sanji have always been the two strongest SHs and even now, they're fighting the top two commanders to equal what Luffy just did in WCI. Jinbe was intentionally given a lesser opponent in order for them to again establish themselves as the "wings" of the future PK. That means Jinbe's basically being slotted in behind them.

                                                        So Jinbe is a lesser inferior character because he doesn’t deserve to be on par with Zoro and Sanji and their superior wing dynamic?

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                                                        • Deicide
                                                          Deicide @electricmastro
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                                                          @electricmastro:

                                                          Yeah, can’t recall if Luffy said “Law”, but I just remember things like “Tra-guy”.

                                                          He called Law by name only once that I remember. When the Heart Pirates didn’t reckognize the nickname Torao in Zou, Luffy clarified it’s meant for Law. Law wasn’t even present then.

                                                          Wano predictions: There will be 5 acts; All Straw Hats will get fights, some in Act 4; Big Mom Pirates will arrive; Carrot will have her moment, but won't join; Yamato will be a Kouzuki samurai and Wano's Guardian; Shanks will visit Luffy in Act 5; Next arc is Mary Geoise.

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                                                          • electricmastro
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                                                            @Deicide:

                                                            He called Law by name only once that I remember. When the Heart Pirates didn’t reckognize the nickname Torao in Zou, Luffy clarified it’s meant for Law. Law wasn’t even present then.

                                                            Yeah, so it’s probably not a case of their names not worth remembering, but Luffy probably being more keen on nicknames at least as of late. Luffy also called him Law well after they had met a few times, so maybe it’s a matter of Luffy needing to spend some more time with Yamato before referring to her as Yamato instead of Yama-o.

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                                                            • Gizmo
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                                                              @electricmastro:

                                                              Yeah, so it’s probably not a case of their names not worth remembering, but Luffy probably being more keen on nicknames at least as of late. Luffy also called him Law well after they had met a few times, so maybe it’s a matter of Luffy needing to spend some more time with Yamato before referring to her as Yamato instead of Yama-o.

                                                              https://www.google.com/amp/s/thelibraryofohara.com/2020/04/05/volume-96-sbs-question-corner/amp/
                                                              There’s an SBS translation about nicknames and Luffy usually giving nicknames to folks vs using real names for his crew.

                                                              And I know the translation points to once Yamato joins the crew Luffy will then use his real name, my counterpoint was that Luffy tends to use the real name of his crew mates before he joined their crew. Like he called Brook Brook mid Thriller Bark or called Franky Franky when trusting him to get Robin etc.

                                                              Originally Posted by Nightwing

                                                              Stay focused, cause right now you have a decision to make. Are you a man perpetually looking back at what he’s lost, or a man looking forward, to what he might become?

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                                                              • electricmastro
                                                                electricmastro @Gizmo
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                                                                @Gizmo:

                                                                https://www.google.com/amp/s/thelibraryofohara.com/2020/04/05/volume-96-sbs-question-corner/amp/
                                                                There’s an SBS translation about nicknames and Luffy usually giving nicknames to folks vs using real names for his crew.

                                                                And I know the translation points to once Yamato joins the crew Luffy will then use his real name, my counterpoint was that Luffy tends to use the real name of his crew mates before he joined their crew. Like he called Brook Brook mid Thriller Bark or called Franky Franky when trusting him to get Robin etc.

                                                                He also said Katakuri's name even though they're not friends.

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                                                                • TLC
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                                                                  @Gizmo:

                                                                  Luffy used Brook’s correct name from the moment he woke up from getting captured and sent back to the Sunny with Zoro/Sanji (before finding about his backstory with Brook). Luffy also called him Brook when asking him for the favor when fighting Oars.

                                                                  For Robin and Chopper, I would argue Oda wasn’t as hard pressed with those rules as he is now, but to make counterpoints…

                                                                  Robin is a weird case because she wasn’t even on Luffy’s radar as a crew member until she snuck on and essentially asked to be on his crew, and Luffy I don’t think called her anything, name or nickname. He only used an incorrect name when they first met because he didn’t know his name properly, but he didn’t call him a nickname.

                                                                  And Luffy didn’t even know Chopper’s name until after the flag scene when he announced it (though not to Luffy) and had his fight. And yes, from translations he called Chopper reindeer instead of his name, but it wasn’t a nickname from what I got.

                                                                  So your counterpoints to me pointing out that your weird disqualifier has no consistency in the manga is to say "Yeah but those are exceptions and Oda was more lax back then." So why can't he make an exception now? Especially with a character who clearly has a bit of an identity crisis and is still discovering himself. I think that makes more sense than saying Luffy doesn't respect Yamato, someone who held back an Emperor, enough not to use his proper name. Or maybe Oda doesn't really care about this name rule the fandom seems to have made up? Maybe he does what he wants? Obviously there are patterns to the broad strokes of his story-telling but making predictions over hyper specific naming quirks seems a bit folly, especially compared to the super broad strokes writing style of having characters declare boldly they are joining which so far in the series has always followed with the character joining.

                                                                  –- Update From New Post Merge ---

                                                                  @Gizmo:

                                                                  https://www.google.com/amp/s/thelibraryofohara.com/2020/04/05/volume-96-sbs-question-corner/amp/
                                                                  There’s an SBS translation about nicknames and Luffy usually giving nicknames to folks vs using real names for his crew.

                                                                  And I know the translation points to once Yamato joins the crew Luffy will then use his real name, my counterpoint was that Luffy tends to use the real name of his crew mates before he joined their crew. Like he called Brook Brook mid Thriller Bark or called Franky Franky when trusting him to get Robin etc.

                                                                  Except in the case of Chopper and Robin when he didn't.

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                                                                  • DollarScholar
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                                                                    Yamato being Ogre adds to the chance of her joining since Oda clearly likes the idea of having a diverse set of races/semi-humans in the crew (chopper, franky, brook, jinbe)

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                                                                    • Blowfish
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                                                                      Even with Yamato's overwhelming strength, I think it weirdly even the crew out strength wise, first off we have to consider how common haki has become in the 2nd half of the grandline, it's now to the point where if you don't have the Advanced ryuo or Kings armament , you're not on the level. We also have to consider the unknown of Vegapunk's experiment and what people like Issho and other WG heavy weights saw that make them know without a doubt they could discard the Warlord and still maintain the power balance of the seas.

                                                                      Just speaking specifically crew dynamic wise, I think Yamato and Jinbe in particular makes the crew well rounded. Just for argument's sake let's say Luffy is now on a seperate Yonko busting tier, now you have Zoro and Sanji playing the role of his "Wings", with Jinbe being just as strong as them but implied to be just below them based off who he'll be relied on to defeat compared to the others. Ironically or not, it's essentially the Beast Pirates' hierarchy, but strength wise with King and Queen being Super Elites, Jack being considered an Elite as well but more or less the bridge between the All-star and Tobi-roppo rank.

                                                                      Brilliant part about it is, Yamato still remains the outlier like she's currently for the Beast Pirates. Super strong , but since they lack the experience and notoriety they'll remain the trump card even after they join the crew.

                                                                      Luffy
                                                                      Zoro , Sanji
                                                                      Jinbe, Yamato
                                                                      Franky, Robin, Brook
                                                                      Ussop, Nami, Chopper

                                                                      Considering the crews miniable size, they were always gonna have to end more well rounded.

                                                                      "The Night Is Dark And Full Of Terror"

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                                                                      • Gizmo
                                                                        Gizmo @TLC
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                                                                        @TLC:

                                                                        So your counterpoints to me pointing out that your weird disqualifier has no consistency in the manga is to say "Yeah but those are exceptions and Oda was more lax back then." So why can't he make an exception now? Especially with a character who clearly has a bit of an identity crisis and is still discovering himself. I think that makes more sense than saying Luffy doesn't respect Yamato, someone who held back an Emperor, enough not to use his proper name. Or maybe Oda doesn't really care about this name rule the fandom seems to have made up? Maybe he does what he wants? Obviously there are patterns to the broad strokes of his story-telling but making predictions over hyper specific naming quirks seems a bit folly, especially compared to the super broad strokes writing style of having characters declare boldly they are joining which so far in the series has always followed with the character joining.

                                                                        –- Update From New Post Merge ---

                                                                        Except in the case of Chopper and Robin when he didn't.

                                                                        what was the nickname he called Robin? And Chopper was just called Reindeer, not a nickname?

                                                                        There’s other examples too of friendly allies that Luffy doesn’t use there real names for like Bon-Chan, Iva-Chan, Ice-Ossan. There’s also Cabbagges and Chicken-head. Crybaby-osshi.

                                                                        Finally if we were really going for broad strokes as the criteria Law marked all the checklist in Dressrosa but he didn’t join either (and he has a dream now like Robin in finding out the Will of D so there’s that)

                                                                        Originally Posted by Nightwing

                                                                        Stay focused, cause right now you have a decision to make. Are you a man perpetually looking back at what he’s lost, or a man looking forward, to what he might become?

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                                                                        • electricmastro
                                                                          electricmastro @DollarScholar
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                                                                          @DollarScholar:

                                                                          Yamato being Ogre adds to the chance of her joining since Oda clearly likes the idea of having a diverse set of races/semi-humans in the crew (chopper, franky, brook, jinbe)

                                                                          Yeah, it was made apparent early on when Luffy was saying that you get to meet all sorts of interesting people the more you travel and visiting and recruiting in the Grand Line is made more special in that regard by Luffy recruiting non-traditional humans starting with Chopper or humans with devil fruits like Robin.

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                                                                          • Blowfish
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                                                                            I also don't adhere too much to Yamato's showing against Kaido, considering A. He's fought like 15 people already and B. I don't think he's fighting his daughter with the intent to kill.

                                                                            "The Night Is Dark And Full Of Terror"

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                                                                            • Coookie
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                                                                              @Gizmo:

                                                                              Finally if we were really going for broad strokes as the criteria Law marked all the checklist in Dressrosa but he didn’t join either (and he has a dream now like Robin in finding out the Will of D so there’s that)

                                                                              How many times has Law expressed a desire to sail under Luffy's command?

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                                                                              • TLC
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                                                                                @Gizmo:

                                                                                what was the nickname he called Robin? And Chopper was just called Reindeer, not a nickname?

                                                                                There’s other examples too of friendly allies that Luffy doesn’t use there real names for like Bon-Chan, Iva-Chan, Ice-Ossan. There’s also Cabbagges and Chicken-head. Crybaby-osshi.

                                                                                Finally if we were really going for broad strokes as the criteria Law marked all the checklist in Dressrosa but he didn’t join either (and he has a dream now like Robin in finding out the Will of D so there’s that)

                                                                                My point is you can't make a claim of there being a rule that has to be followed when there is a single exception to the rule let alone two.

                                                                                You want to make it a point against Yamato's favor in joining because Luffy referred to him by a nickname with the argument that only people Luffy respects enough to use their proper name can join yet he let a random woman who saved his life once join because she asked out of obligation whose name he didn't know and a weird, funny creature whose name he did know but still referred to it by the nickname/status (whatever you want to call it) of his species because he could transform and looked cool. He also asked a random Afro Skeleton man to join before even knowing what his name was. Luffy doesn't ask people he respects to join, he asks people he likes or thinks are interesting.

                                                                                From an authorial perspective, from your very own SBS that you linked, Oda's word on it is Luffy will get the names of his crew right when they officially join because that's just the way it is and nothing else. Oda has never made any claim about only characters with names Luffy knows can join and the fact that there are two blatant exceptions in this history of this series nullifies any credibility of this claim no matter what excuses can be made about extenuating circumstances. Because Yamato's character could also have extenuating circumstances.

                                                                                And to address your question about Law, Law has never once stated he wanted to join Luffy's crew and is very adamant on being independent. This is opposed to Yamato whose made his intentions boldly and clearly three times now. This combined with the impactful design Oda kept tweaking, interacting with Luffy and Franky, having two big character defining moments protecting Momonosuke and fighting Kaidou and having a flashback about being lonely and never being accepted.

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                                                                                • Zik
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                                                                                  @Gizmo:

                                                                                  Just wanna point out in the official release for chapter 1025, Luffy calls Yamato Yamao, despite knowing Yamato knew Ace, knowing Yamato’s backstory essentially, relying on Yamato to look after Momo, and being impressed with Yamato’s fighting skills (being able to hold off Kaidou).

                                                                                  Usually Luffy as a sign of respect for a crew member would use their full name instead of a nickname (volume 96). And given all Luffy knows about Yamato I dunno what key bit of info would need to turn the tide for Luffy to go from nickname to not nickname at this poin

                                                                                  Luffy will call a character a nickname until he doesn't.

                                                                                  Don't really know why this can be considered a thing.

                                                                                  Zik Of The 7 Swords: Vision? What do you know about my vision? My vision would turn your world upside down, tear asunder your illusions, and send the sanctuary of your own ignorance crashing down around you. Now ask yourself, Are you ready to see that vision?

                                                                                  Last.fm

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                                                                                  • Kfunk
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                                                                                    The Yamao nickname isn't something that should just brushed get off.
                                                                                    The first thing Yamato did is introducing herself as Yamato to Luffy. Later took offense at the Yamao and angrily corrected him spelling it syllable per syllable
                                                                                    Luffy isn't someone who is disrespectful on purpose on purpose, he's blunt which is another matter.
                                                                                    Him not bothering to correct himself show a lack of interest in Yamato.

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                                                                                    • electricmastro
                                                                                      electricmastro @Kfunk
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                                                                                      @Kfunk:

                                                                                      The Yamao nickname isn't something that should just brushed get off.
                                                                                      The first thing Yamato did is introducing herself as Yamato to Luffy. Took offense at the Yamao and angrily corrected him spelling it syllable per syllable
                                                                                      Luffy isn't someone who is disrespectful on purpose on purpose, he's blunt which is another matter.
                                                                                      Him not bothering to correct himself show a lack of interest in Yamato.

                                                                                      Depending on what Yamato does, I think she's starting to win more favor with Luffy since he recognized she held Kaido back just after saying "Yamao." Also convenient how Yamato declared she wanted to sail with Luffy and made her cool wolf transformation when Luffy wasn't around.

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                                                                                      • Zik
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                                                                                        @BobLoblaw:

                                                                                        I won't get tied up into what exactly Luffy calls Yamato at this point because that's something that could easily change. The biggest hurdle I have now is how freaking strong Yamato is. Ace wasn't lying about Yamato being a captain. He's clearly fighting on an even playing field with a guy who's literally fought more than a dozen characters all while carrying an island. He's even drawing blood against Kaido.

                                                                                        Zoro and Sanji have always been the two strongest SHs and even now, they're fighting the top two commanders to equal what Luffy just did in WCI. Jinbe was intentionally given a lesser opponent in order for them to again establish themselves as the "wings" of the future PK. That means Jinbe's basically being slotted in behind them.

                                                                                        I find it extremely hard to believe that after all these years and all the feats those two have accomplished that a new character will suddenly be introduced that outclasses them. Hell, people have already forgotten how Jinbe was held back for years just to get Zoro and Sanji to where they are today when they can technically outrank him (on land) from a strength perspective.

                                                                                        Doesn't really matter now. We're in the final stages of the story. Strawhats can use another super strong member.

                                                                                        I figure this argument will die out after Oda reveals Sanji has CoC as well.

                                                                                        Zik Of The 7 Swords: Vision? What do you know about my vision? My vision would turn your world upside down, tear asunder your illusions, and send the sanctuary of your own ignorance crashing down around you. Now ask yourself, Are you ready to see that vision?

                                                                                        Last.fm

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                                                                                        • electricmastro
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                                                                                          @Zik:

                                                                                          Luffy will call a character a nickname until he doesn't.

                                                                                          Don't really know why this can be considered a thing.

                                                                                          He also didn't call Hancock by her real name until several days after she agreed to take him to Impel Down to rescue Ace, as well as "Bon-Chan" for Bentham even by the time he left himself behind so Luffy could escape.

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                                                                                          • Zik
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                                                                                            @TLC:

                                                                                            My point is you can't make a claim of there being a rule that has to be followed when there is a single exception to the rule let alone two.

                                                                                            You want to make it a point against Yamato's favor in joining because Luffy referred to him by a nickname with the argument that only people Luffy respects enough to use their proper name can join yet he let a random woman who saved his life once join because she asked out of obligation whose name he didn't know and a weird, funny creature whose name he did know but still referred to it by the nickname/status (whatever you want to call it) of his species because he could transform and looked cool. He also asked a random Afro Skeleton man to join before even knowing what his name was. Luffy doesn't ask people he respects to join, he asks people he likes or thinks are interesting.

                                                                                            From an authorial perspective, from your very own SBS that you linked, Oda's word on it is Luffy will get the names of his crew right when they officially join because that's just the way it is and nothing else. Oda has never made any claim about only characters with names Luffy knows can join and the fact that there are two blatant exceptions in this history of this series nullifies any credibility of this claim no matter what excuses can be made about extenuating circumstances. Because Yamato's character could also have extenuating circumstances.

                                                                                            And to address your question about Law, Law has never once stated he wanted to join Luffy's crew and is very adamant on being independent. This is opposed to Yamato whose made his intentions boldly and clearly three times now. This combined with the impactful design Oda kept tweaking, interacting with Luffy and Franky, having two big character defining moments protecting Momonosuke and fighting Kaidou and having a flashback about being lonely and never being accepted.

                                                                                            Oh I didn't know/see this name thing as a rule or pattern was already thoroughly debunked.
                                                                                            @Kfunk:

                                                                                            The Yamao nickname isn't something that should just brushed get off.
                                                                                            The first thing Yamato did is introducing herself as Yamato to Luffy. Later took offense at the Yamao and angrily corrected him spelling it syllable per syllable
                                                                                            Luffy isn't someone who is disrespectful on purpose on purpose, he's blunt which is another matter.
                                                                                            Him not bothering to correct himself show a lack of interest in Yamato.

                                                                                            LOL

                                                                                            Zik Of The 7 Swords: Vision? What do you know about my vision? My vision would turn your world upside down, tear asunder your illusions, and send the sanctuary of your own ignorance crashing down around you. Now ask yourself, Are you ready to see that vision?

                                                                                            Last.fm

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                                                                                              astagadragon
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                                                                                              I guess that the sacred "we are nakama now" will be uttered by Luffy in this rooftop batte before Yamato finally falls and Luffy would proceed to go mano-a-mano against Kaido.

                                                                                              I can see it: big spread page, Luffy shouting "Yamato!! You are my nakama now!!", with sneering Kaido, wheezing Momo and crying Yamato, as well as "Break next week" LOL

                                                                                              Like, it's almost a certainty at this point. It's not even funny how blatant Oda threw the clues at us…

                                                                                              "No more shall man have wings to bear him to paradise. Henceforth, he shall walk.." - Venat

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                                                                                              • Zik
                                                                                                Zik @astagadragon
                                                                                                @astagadragon last edited by
                                                                                                Zik
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                                                                                                Zik
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                                                                                                @astagadragon:

                                                                                                I guess that the sacred "we are nakama now" will be uttered by Luffy in this rooftop batte before Yamato finally falls and Luffy would proceed to go mano-a-mano against Kaido.

                                                                                                I can see it: big spread page, Luffy shouting "Yamato!! You are my nakama now!!", with sneering Kaido, wheezing Momo and crying Yamato, as well as "Break next week" LOL

                                                                                                Like, it's almost a certainty at this point. It's not even funny how blatant Oda threw the clues at us…

                                                                                                Roughly 2 weeks to dwell on that may set some of those in denial straight.

                                                                                                But I'd look forward to the new ways they'd spin a potential scene and declaration like that and come up with new ways why Yamato won't join.

                                                                                                Zik Of The 7 Swords: Vision? What do you know about my vision? My vision would turn your world upside down, tear asunder your illusions, and send the sanctuary of your own ignorance crashing down around you. Now ask yourself, Are you ready to see that vision?

                                                                                                Last.fm

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                                                                                                • Deicide
                                                                                                  Deicide
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                                                                                                  Deicide
                                                                                                  spiral
                                                                                                  Deicide
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                                                                                                  Heh, I wasn't the only one who cut out Franky.

                                                                                                  (Click on link to tweet if image does not work)

                                                                                                  https://twitter.com/Eiichiro_Staff/status/1437219896270614529?s=20

                                                                                                  Wano predictions: There will be 5 acts; All Straw Hats will get fights, some in Act 4; Big Mom Pirates will arrive; Carrot will have her moment, but won't join; Yamato will be a Kouzuki samurai and Wano's Guardian; Shanks will visit Luffy in Act 5; Next arc is Mary Geoise.

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                                                                                                  • Shiebs
                                                                                                    Shiebs
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                                                                                                    Shiebs
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                                                                                                    Shiebs
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                                                                                                    I’m still disappointed with Yamato’s hybrid design

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                                                                                                    • BobLoblaw
                                                                                                      BobLoblaw @Zik
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                                                                                                      BobLoblaw
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                                                                                                      BobLoblaw
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                                                                                                      @Zik:

                                                                                                      Doesn't really matter now. We're in the final stages of the story. Strawhats can use another super strong member.

                                                                                                      I figure this argument will die out after Oda reveals Sanji has CoC as well.

                                                                                                      So that would mean four active CoC users in one crew if he joined. Think about that for a second while you compare it to other crews.

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                                                                                                        Monquito @BobLoblaw
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                                                                                                        Monquito
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                                                                                                        @BobLoblaw:

                                                                                                        So that would mean four active CoC users in one crew if he joined. Think about that for a second while you compare it to other crews.

                                                                                                        Series clearly states the SH's are going to surpass Roger's

                                                                                                        They do it

                                                                                                        Fandom; eeey why are they surpassing Roger's crew!!!???

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