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    Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

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    • Cockycent
      Cockycent @SeaOfHope
      @SeaOfHope last edited by
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      @Coookie:

      She attacked Zoro, then their attention was immediately diverted when Wanda showed up wearing Nami's clothes. All their comments were about Minks in general, even when Carrot demonstrated her jump. Yamato's short interaction with Franky showed more depth than that.

      Not comparing her to Yamato. Just responding to "she doesn't have "anything" with the Dressrosa group when her very first on panel interaction was with them. I knew I was remembering it correctly

      I don't think you want to compare who has more interactions with Straw Hats between Yamato and Carrot…

      @SeaOfHope:

      The only interaction she had was just straight up attacking Zoro.

      She eventually became chill and partied with them and her amusement of Luffy as well as the prospect of adventure, but it doesn't compare to her partitioned relationship with the Sanji Retrieval Team, mainly Chopper (Choniki), Nami, and Sanji. Luffy is still the ground she needs to have the most coverage with, but that's something that will more than likely happen since Pedro's last words were to know why they and their journey are so important.

      EDIT: Brook kinda too, but she was initially shocked and scared of some of the stuff he could do.

      There is an instance where she educates Robin on the Minks being able to handle the cold

      Coookie SeaOfHope 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • Coookie
        Coookie @theackwardstation
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        @theackwardstation:

        Good and bad storytelling is very subjective and consensus changes according to trends in culture, and even consensus is not an absolute metric.

        You say that like there isn't a lot of common ground even across different cultures in what constitutes good or bad storytelling. If Oda reveals in the next chapter that the One Piece was in Wano all along and a piece of poop, I can't imagine anyone sincerely saying "wow, what a great story".

        @theackwardstation:

        Anyway, I'm not demanding anything. I have no power in this relationship and I'll take whatever happens, and then I'll have my final opinion after all is done. Meanwhile, it's perfectly fine for me to have prospects of what I think is right and organic based on my reading of the story. For example, if the treasure One Piece is literally a piece of poop, I'll be very disappointed because there's enough build up to have expectations for something more meaningful (although that would be a "laughing tale", lol). In the same way, I think Oda spent far too much time showing Carrot bonding with the crew and sharing affection and pain with them, so it would be awkward if that's not acknowledged at her departure.

        @theackwardstation:

        Carrot feels like a nakama too… so I think it's important that the story acknowledges that in case she doesn't join the crew.

        This sounded like a demand to me. You put importance on the expectation that the story addresses your feelings that Carrot is a nakama too

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        • Cockycent
          Cockycent @Paraplonq
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          @Paraplonq:

          Another one is "Carrot's bonding with the crew was very extensively portrayed through goofy and tragic moments alike, to me the only significant interaction she's had was with Chopper, and that wasn't on equal standing, she was his assistant. Sure, she had moments interacting with other SH's but they were always very minor in my mind. Maybe i'm underplaying them… But i think you are the ones who are putting too much stock into some really minor stuff.

          There's more

          !

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          • theackwardstation
            theackwardstation @Paraplonq
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            @Paraplonq:

            I think this is why there is such a disconnect between Carrot supporters and Carrot deniers. Somehow you think the character is already practically a Straw Hat while i wouldn't even consider that if not for internet discussions.

            So even if we are reading the exact same story, our (subjective) understanding of it is very very different (at least in this matter).

            I have no way to meaningfully respond to you previous long post (the one you quoted me) because it's based on premises that, to me, are not even there. For example, you mention that " It's hard to figure out why she had so much exposure at all" but i simply don't see her as a character with much exposure, she has a lot of panel time, but that to me is not "a lot of exposure", if the story never focuses on her that's just a background character being a background character.

            Another one is **"**Carrot's bonding with the crew was very extensively portrayed through goofy and tragic moments alike, to me the only significant interaction she's had was with Chopper, and that wasn't on equal standing, she was his assistant. Sure, she had moments interacting with other SH's but they were always very minor in my mind. Maybe i'm underplaying them… But i think you are the ones who are putting too much stock into some really minor stuff.

            You're right. That's it. Why this happens is more complicated to figure out though. It's not that we read different stories, but that people read paying attention to different details and giving more or less weight to different things, not to mention how taste affects our understanding.

            In regards to your perception of Carrot, I just wonder if you have ever reread WCI. Not that you'd change your mind if you did, but maybe you'd find out that there's more than you remember.

            –- Update From New Post Merge ---

            @Coookie:

            This sounded like a demand to me. You put importance on the expectation that the story addresses your feelings that Carrot is a nakama too

            What I said there is completely in line with what I explained about being able to have prospects. I do think it's important that certain things happens (not only in regards to Carrot), which doesn't mean I'm demanding them.

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            • Coookie
              Coookie @Cockycent
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              @Cockycent:

              Not comparing her to Yamato. Just responding to "she doesn't have "anything" with the Dressrosa group when her very first on panel interaction was with them. I knew I was remembering it correctly

              You might be remembering incorrectly who said that though, cause it wasn't me. I said

              @Coookie:

              Not to mention that to half the crew Carrot barely stands out among the Minks. Carrot is nowhere near as close to Zoro, Usopp, Robin and Franky as Vivi was to all the Straw Hats more or less equally.

              @Cockycent:

              I don't think you want to compare who has more interactions with Straw Hats between Yamato and Carrot…

              Of course not. It would be stupid to compare absolute numbers between a character that was introduced almost 200 chapters ago and one that was introduced about a dozen chapters ago. However, a few pages ago someone compared relative numbers, you might wanna check those.

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              • SeaOfHope
                SeaOfHope @Cockycent
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                @Cockycent:

                There is an instance where she educates Robin on the Minks being able to handle the cold

                That I do recall, but that was mainly a way for the audience to know that the Minks' were going to be doing a surprise attack on Kaido, using their environment against them as well as reminding the audience of the powerful nature of Sulong.

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                • Cockycent
                  Cockycent @Coookie
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                  @Coookie:

                  You might be remembering incorrectly who said that though, cause it wasn't me. I said

                  I never said you said it. You replied to me…

                  Of course not. It would be stupid to compare absolute numbers between a character that was introduced almost 200 chapters ago and one that was introduced about a dozen chapters ago. However, a few pages ago someone compared relative numbers, you might wanna check those.

                  Yeah, this isn't the post I was referring to

                  –- Update From New Post Merge ---

                  @SeaOfHope:

                  That I do recall, but that was mainly a way for the audience to know that the Minks' were going to be doing a surprise attack on Kaido, using their environment against them as well as reminding the audience of the powerful nature of Sulong.

                  I'm replying to it being said that there was nothing at all

                  It's true that she doesn't have anything with the non-WCI side of the crew, but Carrot feels like a nakama too… so I think it's important that the story acknowledges that in case she doesn't join the crew.

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                  • Coookie
                    Coookie @Cockycent
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                    @Cockycent:

                    I never said you said it. You replied to me…

                    I never said that you said that 😉 Insert Captain America's "I can do this all day"

                    @Cockycent:

                    Yeah, this isn't the post I was referring to

                    You were referring to a post?

                    Cockycent 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • Cockycent
                      Cockycent @Coookie
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                      @Coookie:

                      I never said that you said that 😉 Insert Captain America's "I can do this all day"

                      You were referring to a post?

                      Why say that i'm remembering who posted incorrectly, when I clearly posted who I was responding to, right after? Is this not you saying I am remembering incorrectly?

                      You might be remembering incorrectly who said that though, cause it wasn't me

                      Coookie 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • Coookie
                        Coookie @Cockycent
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                        @Cockycent:

                        Why say that i'm remembering who posted incorrectly, when I clearly posted who I was responding to, right after? Is this not you saying I am remembering incorrectly?

                        Do you know the meaning of "might" in this context and subjunctive verbs? It wasn't clear to me that the following quote is also directed at me, I thought you were just replying to someone else

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                        • Cockycent
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                          Now that the comparison has been brought up, I just don't see any interaction between Yamato and any SH that can surpass collectively losing Pedro and then crying together. Not only does it have more substance, Carrot has just interacted with more of them as well. Forget a ship role, the Sunny doesn't even know Tama or Yamato

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                          • Syphin
                            Syphin @Syphin
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                            @Syphin:

                            I still believe the Octopus in the start of the Wano Kuni Arc that helped Luffy and Co. enter Wano Kuni is connected to Yamato. No other character in Wano Kuni followed the Straw Hat Pirates as closely as Yamato did. Yamato had Oden's journal to compare the Straw Hat Pirates journey with. They knew with Nico Robin in the Straw Hat Pirates and Luffy having the initial "D" in his name, it was inevitable that the Straw Hat Pirates would eventually come to Wano Kuni for the Road Poneglyph in Kaido's possession. And based on Oden's Journal and their conversation with Ace, Yamato also noted similarities between Luffy and Roger. If Yamato was aware the Straw Hat Pirates will enter the New World two years after the Battle of Marineford, it makes sense for Yamato to expect the arrival of Luffy in Wano Kuni. As such, Yamato may have taken measures to assist the Straw Hat Pirates in their entrance to Wano Kuni. Considering how secretive this method is, it would have taken someone with prior knowledge to arrange such an entry. Kaido was surprised Big Mom knew of the waterfall-climbing method which implies just how closely guarded this knowledge was. It would make sense for the Straw Hat Pirates to be assisted by someone who was closely connected to Kaido and who better than the one person on Onigashima Island that had been waiting years for Luffy's arrival i.e. Kaido's child. The Octopus itself was strangely interested in Luffy - summoning the Koi after Luffy mentions his name and grabbing ahold of Luffy as he tried to escape the Thousand Sunny when it reached the top of the Wano Kuni waterfall. Additionally, Yamato also knew Luffy and the Samurai were approaching Onigashima Island before any of the other Beast Pirates which is why Yamato disappeared earlier in the day before any of the Samurai and Pirates arrived. Yamato has been keeping their focus closely on the Straw Hat Pirates (Luffy) movements across Wano Kuni which could mean Yamato was receiving their information from somewhere - an Octopus perhaps?

                            Some additional notes. The Octopus holding Luffy back as he attempted to leave the Thousand Sunny once it reached the top of the Wano Kuni Waterfall is such a curious scene. Why did the Octopus do that? Why did the Octopus not let Luffy escape? I believe rather than holding Luffy back, the Octopus may have been holding onto Luffy to search for something.

                            As for what that something could be? In the very next page, we get Luffy realising that he lost his vivre card. The Octopus could have been searching for Luffy's vivre card and potentially have broken a piece of it off. When the Octopus returned the vivre card back in Luffy's hat, it was not secured and as such, it ended up being dislodged from the hat while Luffy was in the water and ended up at the bottom of the sea. Sanji later recovered the vivre card as he searched for Luffy at the bottom of the sea.

                            !
                            !
                            !
                            I find it strange Oda included the scene of Luffy losing his vivre card, why would he have done that? What had it added to the story if it is to play no additional role going forward? The scene's omission would not have affected any of the story or so it appears to me. The only character around Luffy before he lost his vivre card is the Octopus. And the Octopus had its tentacles around Luffy.

                            This could help support Yamato and the Octopus having a connection because Yamato may have been using Luffy's vivre card (once the Octopus passed it on to Yamato) to check his status and the direction Luffy resided in. Yamato knew about the function of the vivre card as illustrated in chapter 1000 when they constructed a vivre card for Ace and kept a piece. Yamato would have also been aware of Luffy creating the Straw Hat Grand Fleet and may have suspected Luffy to possess a vivre card. In addition to having the Octopus help the Straw Hat Pirates enter Wano, Yamato could have tasked the Octopus to retrieve a piece of Luffy's vivre card. It would explain why Yamato knew the Straw Hat Pirates and Samurai were sailing to Onigashima before anyone else on the Island which is why Yamato disappeared earlier in the day. If Yamato noticed the direction of the vivre card changing to that of the Wano ports and entrance of Onigashima, they could infer that Luffy was sailing to Onigashima.

                            !
                            Additionally, it would also explain how Yamato was able to locate Luffy on Onigashima while Luffy was on the move. Luffy entered the Onigashima castle in chapter 982 and encountered Ulti at the end of the chapter. Yamato in chapter 983 was "shown" to be moving through the castle. Yamato moved passed the area Kid was present in and traveled directly to where Luffy was fighting Ulti. Rather than Yamato searching the area, it appeared they were moving through the castle with a destination in mind - the direction the vivre card pointed to which Yamato had in their possession by chance?

                            !
                            If Yamato and the Octopus are connected, it would mean Yamato has been involved in the Wano Kuni arc since the very start - chapter 910.

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                            • T
                              Triceron
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                              I have to say, even though I'm still waiting for more information before settling on any particular character, I think Tama has grown a lot of strong potential since her reappearance this arc. I was skeptical of her being in the thick of battle, but it seems like she's getting a heavy dose of plot armor in her favour with her beasty followers. Heck, she was able to sneak onto Onagashima without being detected and ended up saving Nami and Usopp, the girl can hold her own after all.

                              I'm interested if we will find out of if her fruit power actually works on Zoan users. I mean, the potential of completely messing up the Strawhat v Blackbeard pirates dynamic by using her fruit powers to tame Doc Q's horse or Catarina Devon is twistedly hilarious to me.

                              Still, she's fairly low on my list due to Luffy's own experiences of kids going off to sea. She's Sabo's age when he went off, and little older than Luffy's age when he wanted to go out and ended up getting Shank's arm chomped. I think she works best as an unexpected useful ally like Barto or Leo.

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                              • All Fiction
                                All Fiction @Deicide
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                                @Deicide:

                                I need to remind everyone that Oda said we’d get some bits about Hancock, Sabo and Vivi in 2020.

                                I think it's safe to assume that Oda said that because he thought he would finish Wano in 2020.

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                                • Shiebs
                                  Shiebs
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                                  I wonder if Crocodile will join the grand fleet? I mean he has to reappear in the story at some point right? Will he be an enemy again? Or an untrustworthy ally like Vegeta or Jayne Cobb?

                                  But last time they had to team up with each other Luffy made it clear he hated his guts, could they ever get past that? I mean there’s few characters Luffy has total contempt or hate for, so I don’t know how they could work together again without similar circumstances forcing them to unwillingly work together like they did in Impel Down

                                  Sir Crocodile is one of my favorite One Piece characters so I’m so excited for him to come back into the story, I just wonder how Oda will do it

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                                  • Zik
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                                    After Yamato joins, even though I know 11 strawhats is already a lit to juggle, I can see Oda adding one more nakama in the next big saga for an even 12 crew members altogether.

                                    Maybe a giant.

                                    Zik Of The 7 Swords: Vision? What do you know about my vision? My vision would turn your world upside down, tear asunder your illusions, and send the sanctuary of your own ignorance crashing down around you. Now ask yourself, Are you ready to see that vision?

                                    Last.fm

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                                    • Cyan D. Funk
                                      Cyan D. Funk
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                                      Carrot has still not had anything resembling a substantial interaction with Luffy, correct?

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                                      • BobLoblaw
                                        BobLoblaw
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                                        No. It's like people completely forgot WCI.

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                                        • J
                                          Jaime @Zik
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                                          @Zik:

                                          After Yamato joins, even though I know 11 strawhats is already a lit to juggle, I can see Oda adding one more nakama in the next big saga for an even 12 crew members altogether.

                                          Maybe a giant.

                                          A giant is never fitting on the Sunny.

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                                          • MiyamotoMusashi
                                            MiyamotoMusashi @All Fiction
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                                            @All:

                                            I think it's safe to assume that Oda said that because he thought he would finish Wano in 2020.

                                            Technically he never said that. He talked about Wa No, and basically hinted at the parallel developments after the cliffhangers we got with Sabo, Vivi and Hancock, that´s it.
                                            People just interpreted it in a way that Oda was talking about what will happen in 2020.
                                            The only thing he said was Luffy´s reason to fight will reveal itself or something along those lines, and that Wa No will reach its core/climax.

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                                            • wolfwood
                                              wolfwood
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                                              @Cyan D. Funk
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                                              @Cyan:

                                              Carrot has still not had anything resembling a substantial interaction with Luffy, correct?

                                              And she probably won't until after Wano at the earliest.

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                                                Hero Garp
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                                                My man Kin’emon’s had great Luffy interactions throughout Wano, shame he’s not in the line to join

                                                !





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                                                • Syphin
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                                                  Out of all the New World characters, Luffy has had the most substantial and meaningful interactions with Momonosuke so far.

                                                  But out of the current Straw Hat Pirates, who does everyone think Luffy has had the most meaningful interactions with?

                                                  • Zoro because he is Luffy's number 1?
                                                  • Nami because of Arlong and because she is the one who keeps Luffy in check (when she can)?
                                                  • Usopp because of their similarities, conflict and Luffy's tendency to believe Usopp's lies (Sogeking!)?
                                                  • Sanji because of the Whole Cake Island story arc?
                                                  • Chopper because Luffy didn't care he was a monster?
                                                  • Vivi because of the journey to the Alabasta Kingdom and helping her save it from Crocodile plus the "cross" mark?
                                                  • Robin because of the Alabasta interactions and her response to Luffy's question in Enies Lobby?
                                                  • Franky because he is super and because of the "pants" moment?
                                                  • Brook because bones, music, Laboon and "become my nakama"?
                                                  • Jinbe because of the depression Luffy suffered from coming to terms with Ace's death?

                                                  Different moments in the story carry different weight. I want to say Zoro but Jinbe's time with Luffy after Ace died was such a meaningful exchange between the two. Jinbe genuinely saved Luffy.

                                                  !
                                                  !

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                                                  • andre
                                                    andre @Syphin
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                                                    @Syphin:

                                                    Out of all the New World characters, Luffy has had the most substantial and meaningful interactions with Momonosuke so far.

                                                    But out of the current Straw Hat Pirates, who does everyone think Luffy has had the most meaningful interactions with?

                                                    • Zoro because he is Luffy's number 1?
                                                    • Nami because of Arlong and because she is the one who keeps Luffy in check (when she can)?
                                                    • Usopp because of their similarities, conflict and Luffy's tendency to believe Usopp's lies (Sogeking!)?
                                                    • Sanji because of the Whole Cake Island story arc?
                                                    • Chopper because Luffy didn't care he was a monster?
                                                    • Vivi because of the journey to the Alabasta Kingdom and helping her save it from Crocodile plus the "cross" mark?
                                                    • Robin because of the Alabasta interactions and her response to Luffy's question in Enies Lobby?
                                                    • Franky because he is super and because of the "pants" moment?
                                                    • Brook because bones, music, Laboon and "become my nakama"?
                                                    • Jinbe because of the depression Luffy suffered from coming to terms with Ace's death?

                                                    Different moments in the story carry different weight. I want to say Zoro but Jinbe's time with Luffy after Ace died was such a meaningful exchange between the two. Jinbe genuinely saved Luffy.

                                                    ! https://12dimension.files.wordpress.com/2021/01/one_piece_v60_ch590_p015-edit.jpg
                                                    ! https://12dimension.files.wordpress.com/2021/01/one_piece_v60_ch590_p016-017.jpg

                                                    Sanji. I don't think there's a stronger bond than Luffy and Meat.

                                                    edit: Honestly though, I don't think there's an answer. If Luffy had to choose between crewmates I think he wouldn't. It's just not who he is. He'd find a different answer, even if there wasn't one. He would do Enies Lobby and WCI for every member of the crew, even if they were on the shores of Raftel.

                                                    Check out my podcast for conversations about Greatness in anime, sports, music, and whatever else we can think of.

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                                                    • Daz
                                                      Daz
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                                                      @Syphin:

                                                      Regarding the lack of time Yamato had spent with Luffy, attention should equally be given to the quality of time spent and how it impacted Luffy.

                                                      Your extensive work documenting panel appearances and whatnot is already illuminating, but this really is the crux of the matter for accurately gauging character exposure. Theres a big difference between merely being visible on a panel, and being the clear focus of said panel - whether its an obvious case like a close up of just the one characters face, or said character being in the foreground, or having all the dialogue or the unambiguously grandest statement as opposed to terse exposition, or is the centerpiece of an moment in terms of action or reaction.
                                                      Its the difference between a panel affirming that a character exists, and a panel going "Pay attention to THIS character! THIS characters emotions and statements above all else"

                                                      For the purposes of establishing a character and stoking the dramatic fires of a character joining the main cast with great fanfare, the latter type of panel is worth a whole lot more than the former.

                                                      On that note, theres no question that Carrot got a lot of said type of panels during Whole Cake. Less than Sanji, Pudding, the Vinsmokes, and probably Bege and Jinbe, but still.

                                                      But looking at Carrot post Whole Cake – that is to say, in the arc that will supposedly capitalize on her buildup from Whole Cake, and be the one where she actually joins, things seem different.
                                                      In the following, I made note of instances up until chapter 976 where Carrot were given top focus, or at least equal focus to everyone else within a panel -that is to say, not shoved way in the background compared to everyone else- or were explicitly highlighted with dialogue. This is what I came up with
                                                      910: 2 panels shared equally with Chopper
                                                      919: 1 group shot
                                                      920: 1 group shot, 1 solo panel of her crying, which every other non-Wano person present also get
                                                      921: 1 group shot
                                                      925: 1 solo panel of her admiring Ashura
                                                      928 and 938: in the relative background, but has expository dialogue directed at DogKing
                                                      955: 1 solo panel of her calmly looking at Pedros grave, which apparently more emotional Sicilian and Wanda also get
                                                      959: 1 panel of expository dialogue with Robin, 1 shared panel with Wanda and Nami
                                                      976: 1 group panel.

                                                      As I said there were other appearances I discounted due to her being way in the background, and I may have missed stuff as this was not a full-term project.
                                                      But to sum up, with these criteria, looking for instances that highlight Carrot specifically, Carrot was almost entirely featured in group shots, got three total panels to herself, of which one was not part of a set of matching reaction panels with other characters. And this one panel is of her hyping Ashura Doujis strength.

                                                      Just to be clear, I do not consider this to represent any sort of special attention being given, or even buildup being maintained -quite the opposite in fact. Now you can’t calculate your way to a crewmate, a crewmate is made by how the story frames said character…but what I’ve tried demonstrating here is that since Wano started, the framing of Carrot has drastically less involved, much less personal. Despite this being the arc she supposedly joins at the end at. Prior posts have compared Carrots panel exposure to other “candidates” such as Tama and Yamato, but if you look at Wano as a whole, theres any number of characters who’ve gotten more paneltime than her. Would Carrot even crack the top 20 in terms of paneltime relative to time present in the arc? Does she beat someone like Hyogoro? If not, is this befitting of someone about to become a main cast member, is it comparable to the treatment of prior crewmembers in the lead up to them joining, does it build the dramatic fires to facilitate the most emotional catharsis of the character joining at the end of this storyline?

                                                      I can practically see the arguments of “so what shes’ so much of a crewmember already that she doesn’t NEED more exposure post WCI at all! Her almost only being in group shots is a point in her favor, it means shes normalized already!” being typed out, but

                                                      1. She hasn’t joined yet. This is the reason we’re having these debates, and people are persistently speculating the myriad things she will get to do in the future to formalize her joining. And said joining will happen at the end of Wano, not Whole Cake.
                                                      2. Regardless, she’s still way behind the other, more established Straw Hats in terms of dedicated exposure in this arc – despite being the supposedly freshest recruit, the newest blood. Straw Hats get to be in group shots AND get panels highlighting them specifically -even characters as underserved as Brook and Usopp got Carrot beat in this regard, to say nothing of the others.
                                                      3. Other prospective crewmembers had consistent, often escalating personal highlights up to the moment of their joining- well after their bonds with the crew were getting established. Franky didn’t need to coast on an early rapport with the crew during 100 chapters of decreased importance until he joined, because he spent those 100 chapters getting juicy dramatic moments.

                                                      Whereas Paulie on the other hand…still probably got more personal highlights in the Enies Lobby raid alone than Carrot has this entire arc.

                                                      Like, the specific reason I stopped counting for now at Jinbes return is that with that one scene ALONE Jinbe got more panels showcasing him and only him as a character, than Carrot had gotten in the whole of Wano. Jinbe then proceeds to get even more such panels after that scene, on a semi-regular basis. The contrast was just so stark that I called it a day; “oh right, this is what it looks like when Oda truly spotlights a character”

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                                                      • theackwardstation
                                                        theackwardstation
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                                                        I'm mostly in agreement.

                                                        When Carrot came back to existence in chapter 975, I said that her chances were not the same anymore after such an absence. Since then, she's not being portrayed in any significant manner, and that's not ideal if Oda's intention is her joining at the end of the arc, although it also must be said that Carrot is enjoying extra-privileges despite her current predicament (like getting a fight against Perospero and stuff, and it won't stop there).

                                                        Carrot doesn't have any momentum right now, so she better pick up. But while I agree that someone being built up to join the SHs should have more quality panel-time before joining, it's not unreasonable to me that this could happen still. Managing screentime in such a war is troublesome and so the author switches priorities to handle it according to how he's compartimentalizing the plot structure. Is it the case here in regards to Carrot? Maybe, maybe not. And while there is another SH candidate who's being properly portrayed in Onigashima (Yamato), this is a new character who needs it to compensate for his late introduction.

                                                        If I were not of the opinion that it's foreshadowed that Carrot still has development to go through, maybe I wouldn't believe in the possibility that her portrayal could get better in Wano. However, as things stand, there's reason to believe that Carrot will get the spotlight, therefore some quality moments. If it'll be short or long or amazing or underwhelming, I don't know… but that's when I'll close my mind in regards to her chances of joining, for better or worse.

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                                                        • Zhenja
                                                          Zhenja @BobLoblaw
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                                                          @BobLoblaw:

                                                          No. It's like people completely forgot WCI.
                                                          https://i.imgur.com/ydT4WlS.png

                                                          Oh yeah, Luffy saying her name because she's on the ship like everybody else and not ignoring her, such substantial interaction.
                                                          I'm sure Luffy will marry her, and they're going to have a bunch of fun little gummy-bunny babies…

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                                                            Jaime @Zhenja
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                                                            @Zhenja:

                                                            Oh yeah, Luffy saying her name because she's on the ship like everybody else and not ignoring her, such substantial interaction.
                                                            I'm sure Luffy will marry her, and they're going to have a bunch of fun little gummy-bunny babies…

                                                            Considering how the poster has made disingenuous arguments before so much so even other people for Carrot made note of it I would just ignore the poster rather then get any debate out of them

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                                                            • black-leg jex
                                                              black-leg jex
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                                                              I don't think Wano had to be an arc to give her a lot of focus to be honest. Wano already has too many characters to the point where actual Straw Hats like Franky and Usopp barely did anything the entire arc. I'm also pretty sure the only reason Jinbei stayed behind at Whole Cake is because Oda literally had nothing for him to do in Wano until the raid. So it was a convenient way to not have to worry about him.

                                                              The way I see it, Carrot's chances haven't really changed since the start of Wano. Her chances of joining haven't gone down but her chances haven't gone up either. Now that she has some actual competition we do need to see something from her, but I think we will get that from the Perospero fight.

                                                              I also still think she needs a reason to not join if she really isn't going to. Short of suddenly not wanting to go out to sea anymore because she doesn't want to leave Wanda, I don't see why she wouldn't ask Luffy to stay onboard

                                                              ![](http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg198/scaled.php?server=198&filename=groosesig.png&res=m edium)

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                                                              • Shift
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                                                                @Zhenja:

                                                                Oh yeah, Luffy saying her name because she's on the ship like everybody else and not ignoring her, such substantial interaction.
                                                                I'm sure Luffy will marry her, and they're going to have a bunch of fun little gummy-bunny babies…

                                                                It shows that he knows exactly who she is, and relied on her in exactly the same way as the rest of his crew in that moment. That happening right after someone actually died, rare as it is in One Piece, was extremely powerful. And the fact she was in the middle of the group of all the other Straw Hats as they welcomed Jinbe back speaks to their mutual connection. She's as much a part of their family as any current outsider can be, and it simply remains to be seen what's she'll ultimately do about it.

                                                                ![](https://scontent.flas1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/25498196_10155717412051343_9025410345413307488_n.j pg)![](https://scontent.flas1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/25498196_10155717412051343_9025410345413307488_n.j pg?oh=4670e1d94ec9f74747dbcc981bb8a774&oe=5AB15A1B)

                                                                Like the Avatar? / Like the Miis?

                                                                Dragalia Lost ID: 97617932505

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                                                                • wolfwood
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                                                                  When Pedro comes back they can both set out to sea together.

                                                                  And Yams can go see all the floating upside down waterfalls of the OP world.

                                                                  And Tama can marry Momo and be his bewitching ninja girl 4 ever.

                                                                  And the Strawhats can set out to outpace all of these non-hats once and for all.

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                                                                  • Monquito
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                                                                    Carrot's been 200 chapters around and has not interacted with Robin at all.

                                                                    Not a beep.

                                                                    Yamato has been in 15 and only interacted with Luffy and Franky.

                                                                    Trump Supporter levels of triggered all over the place!

                                                                    Can we stop this hypocricy pls?

                                                                    –- Update From New Post Merge ---

                                                                    @Cyan:

                                                                    Carrot has still not had anything resembling a substantial interaction with Luffy, correct?

                                                                    Not even going into privately having a moment like Yamato just did.

                                                                    And at this point is guaranteed that Luffy is not witnessing Sulong(again)

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                                                                    • SeaOfHope
                                                                      SeaOfHope @Jaime
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                                                                      @Jaime:

                                                                      Considering how the poster has made disingenuous arguments before so much so even other people for Carrot made note of it I would just ignore the poster rather then get any debate out of them

                                                                      Let's not start talking about disingenuous posts Jamie, not just from you, but any of us. Enough is enough and it's time to speak objectively.

                                                                      If we're talking about significance and focus naratively, Yamato and even Tama are ahead of Carrot. That said, Carrot does have a progressing character arc, despite the little attention that has been given to it. Very curious where that leads, especially knowing she has adhered to following the Straw Hats independently again.

                                                                      –- Update From New Post Merge ---

                                                                      @wolfwood:

                                                                      When Pedro comes back they can both set out to sea together.

                                                                      I see no narrative point Pedro returning to the story if what he wanted her to come to a realization and understand he was going to tell her. Unless this just adhering to OP death policy standards, his story and purpose he has concluded and passed on to Carrot. He admitted he didn't have much time left, so I'm assured that he is done.

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                                                                      • Cockycent
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                                                                        Carrot interacted with Robin already

                                                                        Carrot almost killed Luffy on the Sunny.

                                                                        Franky's only interaction with Luffy before EL was a fight. Sounds familiar

                                                                        I don't get the relevance of seeing a transformation, but going by that logic, Luffy didn't see Monster Point until Chopper was on Sabaody

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                                                                        • BobLoblaw
                                                                          BobLoblaw @Zhenja
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                                                                          @Zhenja:

                                                                          Oh yeah, Luffy saying her name because she's on the ship like everybody else and not ignoring her, such substantial interaction.
                                                                          I'm sure Luffy will marry her, and they're going to have a bunch of fun little gummy-bunny babies…

                                                                          So what you're saying is you want someone to go back through dozens of chapters to find panels that disprove that statement? I don't have time for that. And Luffy at least knows her name. Unlike Yama-dude. There's that.

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                                                                          • Monquito
                                                                            Monquito @SeaOfHope
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                                                                            @SeaOfHope:

                                                                            I see no narrative point Pedro returning to the story if what he wanted her to come to a realization and understand he was going to tell her. Unless this just adhering to OP death policy standards, his story and purpose he has concluded and passed on to Carrot. He admitted he didn't have much time left, so I'm assured that he is done.

                                                                            There would also be no point keeping Pedro dead if Carrot stays back.

                                                                            –- Update From New Post Merge ---

                                                                            @Cockycent:

                                                                            but going by that logic, Luffy didn't see Monster Point until Chopper was on Sabaody

                                                                            Luffy did invite Chopper because he transformed a lot.

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                                                                            • Cockycent
                                                                              Cockycent @Monquito
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                                                                              @Monquito:

                                                                              There would also be no point keeping Pedro dead if Carrot stays back.

                                                                              –- Update From New Post Merge ---

                                                                              Luffy did invite Chopper because he transformed a lot.

                                                                              Was it really because he transformed a lot? I thought it was more than that. If that's the case, he would have made sure Caesar's fodder that Law gave body parts were nakama

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                                                                              • Zhenja
                                                                                Zhenja @BobLoblaw
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                                                                                @BobLoblaw:

                                                                                So what you're saying is you want someone to go back through dozens of chapters to find panels that disprove that statement?

                                                                                No, I'm saying there are none. You or whoever can try, but you won't succeed.

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                                                                                • black-leg jex
                                                                                  black-leg jex @Monquito
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                                                                                  @Monquito:

                                                                                  Luffy did invite Chopper because he transformed a lot.

                                                                                  No. He invited Chopper because he was a talking reindeer and he thought that was cool. When Luffy decided to invite Chopper he had only seen him transform once (from Brain to Muscle point) and that was it.

                                                                                  The only reason Luffy invited Brook was because he was a Skeleton. He literally knew nothing about him when he asked him to join. There's no definitive metric for why Luffy would ask someone.

                                                                                  Either a character asks him and he says yes or he asks a character and they say yes. The crew get a bit of veto in the process and if someone says no, like Sanji originally did, Luffy won't force them to join him.

                                                                                  So it doesn't matter if Luffy hasn't seen Carrot's transformation, he was already her friend before that. The only thing stopping Carrot from joining the crew is if Carrot doesn't want to join the crew.

                                                                                  ![](http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg198/scaled.php?server=198&filename=groosesig.png&res=m edium)

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                                                                                  • Greg
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                                                                                    (I remember him being a person on the train of Pudding controlling Big Mom)

                                                                                    Woah now!

                                                                                    I still completely believe that to be the case. I haven't budged on that and it still completely works.

                                                                                    No matter where you go, there you are.

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                                                                                      Jaime @Greg
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                                                                                      @Greg:

                                                                                      Woah now!

                                                                                      I still completely believe that to be the case. I haven't budged on that and it still completely works.

                                                                                      We will agree to disagree on the feasibility/actuality of that 😛

                                                                                      Excited for the Slam Dunk movie?

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                                                                                      • SeaOfHope
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                                                                                        Luffy so far asks a character to join if he has an immediate interest in them to want them around, needs a position filled on his ship, or has built a level of comraderie with the character to that extent.

                                                                                        From interest alone, he asked Zoro, Chopper, Brook, a talking tree and unicorn sipping tea, and Kine’mon's bifrucated lower half. He asked Nami based on his needs for a navigator, Sanji after seeing him feed Gin, Brook (again) after knowing he was a musician, and Iceburg initially in Water 7 when they were looking for a shipwright and it was revealed from the dock workers that Iceburg was the shipwright mayor every one of the workers and citizens looked up to. Usopp, Franky, and Jinbe built the level of comraderie with Luffy over the course of their time together, though in Usopp's case his recruitment was revealed after the main arc threat was gone since Luffy thought it was a given and Luffy didn't know he was a good sniper till Usopp tried using the canons on the Merry after they left Syrup Village.

                                                                                        Robin was the only one of the Straw Hats who asked to join and Luffy gave the OK to, only reaffirming her position among the crew once the conflict at Enies Lobby was resolved. Therefore, if Carrot wants to join and tag along again, there's no reason that I see why Luffy would turn her down. He's familiar enough with her, more familiar than he initially was with Robin when they met outside of curiosity, and they are perfectly fine friends as it is. If Carrot invites herself, like when she stows away again, Luffy is gonna roll with it and let her. If anything of her character stirs up, then so be it. There's plausibility here, that's all I'm reinforcing. The only thing stopping Carrot is herself.

                                                                                        The reason Luffy shut down Yamato fast was not that she forced herself on him, but she's using logic speaking as Kozuki Oden, which she isn't. Luffy then told her that Kozuki Oden was a person everyone loved, so unless she abandons that part of her character and joins as YAMATO and not Oden-substitute or she gets every Wano citizen's love and admiration despite being Kaido's daughter before this arc's conclusion, then I don't see Yamato's chances at the present. She is the biggest red herring I've seen so far.

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                                                                                        • Coookie
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                                                                                          It shouldn't be too hard to get all of Wano's admiration when you're protecting its future shogun with your life while there are plenty of samurai around who could bear witness to it. I don't see that happening myself but it wouldn't be far-fetched

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                                                                                          • Cockycent
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                                                                                            I hope Luffy sees Yamato's transformation because his nakama expiration date is approaching and it's looking like Retainer duty is his calling

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                                                                                            • Zhenja
                                                                                              Zhenja @Cockycent
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                                                                                              @Cockycent:

                                                                                              I hope Luffy sees Yamato's transformation because his nakama expiration date is approaching and it's looking like Retainer duty is his calling

                                                                                              Oh, her date is due, but Carrot's is unlimited?
                                                                                              She barely did anything yet, and there is a lot of time to shine, just like Tama.

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                                                                                              • SeaOfHope
                                                                                                SeaOfHope @Zhenja
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                                                                                                @Zhenja:

                                                                                                No, I'm saying there are none. You or whoever can try, but you won't succeed.

                                                                                                If you want to argue Zhenja that Luffy hasn't had a serious and narratively intensive conversation with Carrot that would constitute as substantial, that's one thing, but Luffy's had plenty of casual interactions with her by this point and knowing she will inevitably know of their importance and at the present is still at the forefront above the Minks right now, there still exists that possibility. I've talked about being disingenuous already, let's not go down this route and quit the harassments.

                                                                                                @Zhenja:

                                                                                                Oh, her date is due, but Carrot's is unlimited?
                                                                                                She barely did anything yet, and there is a lot of time to shine, just like Tama.

                                                                                                If I can somewhat talk amicably of Tama's chances with @Solid, the least a lot of you guys could do is stop being rude.

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                                                                                                  Jaime
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                                                                                                  Can the obnoxious posting stop of just sniping?

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                                                                                                  • BobLoblaw
                                                                                                    BobLoblaw @SeaOfHope
                                                                                                    @SeaOfHope last edited by
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                                                                                                    @SeaOfHope:

                                                                                                    Luffy so far asks a character to join if he has an immediate interest in them to want them around, needs a position filled on his ship, or has built a level of comraderie with the character to that extent.

                                                                                                    From interest alone, he asked Zoro, Chopper, Brook, a talking tree and unicorn sipping tea, and Kine’mon's bifrucated lower half. He asked Nami based on his needs for a navigator, Sanji after seeing him feed Gin, Brook (again) after knowing he was a musician, and Iceburg initially in Water 7 when they were looking for a shipwright and it was revealed from the dock workers that Iceburg was the shipwright mayor every one of the workers and citizens looked up to. Usopp, Franky, and Jinbe built the level of comraderie with Luffy over the course of their time together, though in Usopp's case his recruitment was revealed after the main arc threat was gone since Luffy thought it was a given and Luffy didn't know he was a good sniper till Usopp tried using the canons on the Merry after they left Syrup Village.

                                                                                                    Robin was the only one of the Straw Hats who asked to join and Luffy gave the OK to, only reaffirming her position among the crew once the conflict at Enies Lobby was resolved. Therefore, if Carrot wants to join and tag along again, there's no reason that I see why Luffy would turn her down. He's familiar enough with her, more familiar than he initially was with Robin when they met outside of curiosity, and they are perfectly fine friends as it is. If Carrot invites herself, like when she stows away again, Luffy is gonna roll with it and let her. If anything of her character stirs up, then so be it. There's plausibility here, that's all I'm reinforcing. The only thing stopping Carrot is herself.

                                                                                                    The reason Luffy shut down Yamato fast was not that she forced herself on him, but she's using logic speaking as Kozuki Oden, which she isn't. Luffy then told her that Kozuki Oden was a person everyone loved, so unless she abandons that part of her character and joins as YAMATO and not Oden-substitute or she gets every Wano citizen's love and admiration despite being Kaido's daughter before this arc's conclusion, then I don't see Yamato's chances at the present. She is the biggest red herring I've seen so far.

                                                                                                    Well stated. If either Carrot or Yamato asks, then he'd likely roll with either one, so it's kind of a race. I'm not sure that either's path will cross Luffy's for a while now that he's on the rooftop, so they likely won't have time to impress him between now and the end of his battle. The real prospect of who would join wouldn't come until after that.

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                                                                                                    • SeaOfHope
                                                                                                      SeaOfHope @Coookie
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                                                                                                      @Coookie:

                                                                                                      It shouldn't be too hard to get all of Wano's admiration when you're protecting its future shogun with your life while there are plenty of samurai around who could bear witness to it. I don't see that happening myself but it wouldn't be far-fetched

                                                                                                      Wano is a very close minded nation, foreign entities and races are not exactly something that have had a strong foothold of in place as we've seen in the Oden's flashback. The Kurozumi situation is a catalyst to what is happening now. Kanjuro himself never revealed he was a Kurozumi till the moment he outed himself as the traitor, despite being one of Oden's most trusted retainers. Speaks a lot of volume of the nature of the citizens of Wano. Yamato is explicitly known as the daughter of the man who killed their beloved leader, just like what happened with Kurozumis doing to the Kozukis in the past. So unless something changes or somehow its addressed, history will repeat.

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                                                                                                      • black-leg jex
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                                                                                                        Yes please. There's a good discussion to be had and then there is reaching because you don't like a character or like a character too much. Don't post here just to be aggressive or ignore someone's points just because they don't align with yours.

                                                                                                        ![](http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg198/scaled.php?server=198&filename=groosesig.png&res=m edium)

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