So why can't it be the moment when she saw Perospero? Why did she put revenge before Strawhats?
This just seems like it's twisting the events of the series so that, no matter what the outcome is, it's somehow proof that Carrot won't join.
If she fights Perospero, it means she's "putting revenge over helping the Straw Hats". If she didn't fight Perospero, it would probably be taken as "she's not important enough to get her own plotline/fight in this arc".
^ This.
Fact is, all of the Straw Hats are off doing their own thing in this fight. Luffy, Sanji and Jinbe left the others to climb the castle. Nami and Usopp left the others to go distract Ulti and Page One. Franky left the others to keep Hatcha from causing havoc for everyone. And Carrot left the others to deal with Perospero, who is a threat to everyone. Dealing with Perospero still helps the overall cause and allows Oda to continue Carrot's own personal storyline.
The fact is, if Carrot didn't go to fight Perospero and ended up fighting someone like Who's Who or just random mooks like Robin and Brook are doing then people would probably complain that it was a missed opportunity by Oda to have Carrot try and get revenge. He has to get someone to deal with Perospero so why not Carrot? It's better she does it than someone with no connection to him.
I actually feel a little bad for Perospero here.
Yes it makes story sense that Carrot and Wanda are going to take him out.
I just wish he would be defeated by someone cooler? His powers are very neat and not to sound like a battle power level nerd here but I just feel he deserves better than to be beat up and clawed at by secondary character with uninteresting power sets.
Though knowing how things are lately the whole fight will be skipped.
It's already too late, she should have realized it sooner.
As I said a couple of weeks ago, as soon as she got the opportunity to revenge Pedro, she took it and left the Strawhats, instead of staying and helping them.
Yamato is following Luffy's orders without question and does her best to help them, and Tama even put herself in danger to help Nami and Usopp…
Carrot just messed up. Carrot doesn't help anyone but herself by defeating Perospero.I'm sorry, but she disqualifies herself.
Disqualified? For going after a dangerous enemy who needs to be taken down regardless of the reason?
Like black-leg jex said, Carrot went after an opponent like everyone else did and needed to do. The fact that it's personal doesn't make it unnecessary. My original point was that she'll possibly separate the revenge aspect from it. And maybe she won't, fair enough. But if it wasn't too late to introduce Yamato, and it wasn't too late to bring Tama to Onigashima, it certainly isne to late for Carrot to have her revelation.
Why did Pedro die in front of Carrot? To teach Carrot something important. If she hasn't learned it yet, her story isn't over.
The way you people talk about Carrot learning the need to follow the SHs makes it sound more like a chore than something she actually wishes she could do. For personal reasons. Because she really likes being there, with them.
"You people…" What is this, A Few Good Men? lol
Carrot is friends with the Straw Hats, that goes without saying. Who's implying that helping them would go against something in her?
Meanwhile Yamato is going full Bartolomeo and gushing about meeting the SHs in person and getting to be part of their crew. She is living the dream of being a SH as we speak.
Yeah, and we all know how it went for Bartolomeo… Tell me, would you want to spend all your time with someone who hero-worships you, who studied every available detail about you beforehand? Personally, I'd find it creepy.
This also ties back with another big issue in that Carrot lacks a character conflict. All the strawhats have one. Her theoretical conflict is related to the overall plot, not to her own person. It's she realizing she wants to fulfill the plot, and unlike the other 20 or so characters who also realized that, deciding she wants to be part of it. But Carrot herself doesn't have a personal dream or conflict or issue that connects her to the sea or the strawhats. It could easily be Wanda deciding to be the one to fulfill Pedro's will instead.
Wanda was not there. She didn't hear what Pedro said when he died. We didn't see her with him when Roger was on the island. We don't know what she personally knows about his dreams, or how Carrot explained his death to her.
We know a lot more about what Carrot knows and wants than Wanda. Wanda fulfilling Pedro's will by herself would not make narrative sense, because it's Carrot we've been following all this time, not Wanda.
That only let us all in the same state we've been since forever of 'constantly waiting'.
It would be weird if Carrot/Wanda actually win, while everyone else is losing their battles, and with no SH's around!, Jeez, is Luffy ever gon see her Sulong(?)
Since the Sulong its limited, and Peros is too strong, I would say she's gonna get trapped in candy, to drag her moment a little longer and at a moment where most of all official versuses are happening. Right now, it does seem like inevitable defeat.
What can I say? Jinbe conditioned me to be patient with these things.
And no, I don't think they're set to need saving, either. I can't be sure if Luffy will see any Sulong in action at this point, since Dog and Cat are on the ropes. But if he sees anyone, it'll be Carrot.
Like the Avatar? / Like the Miis?
Dragalia Lost ID: 97617932505
Also on the topic of power sets? No way is anyone going to join when they are only useful for a fight while the moon is out.
Uninteresting power set that is only at its best situationally?
I mean all this talk of character goals and such is stretching it as is but her power set needs a lot of work before anyone could take her seriously as an option.
The moon thing is less a deal breaker to me than the claws with electricity as a fighting style is
We know Oda loves to give all his main characters a huge variety of attacks, look at how many unique pop greens Usopp has or the different attacks and gears Luffy does with his powers, I just don’t know how much variety you can do with claws and electricity
Then again Oda managed to make a lot of attacks from a guy who only uses his legs and a guy who uses three swords, way more variety than I could have ever imagined, so knowing how creative and crafty Oda is it’s not impossible he’d make a unique fighter out of Carrot
Yeah agreed that her power set in general is not great.
As for what else can be done? I don't know, I am sure Oda could do more for her but it becomes a question of if he wants to go to the effort here.
Yamato has a form we have not seen yet. And whatever it is, it's probably going to open a lot more up for them.
THe difference between the strawhats all completing their own goals and Carrot dealing with Preospero is… he was singlehandedly dragged fromm Big Mom's crew and wedged into the narrative entirely to get to his dangling plot thread.
He didn't arrive with the rest of Big Mom's forces, he couldn't wait till the next arc, he didn't present an immediate threat, he's just a random side obstacle that doesn't connect to anything else in the arc. Meanwhile Cracker and Smoothie and Katakuri and other big threats all just... wait on the ship at the bottom of the waterfall like a neverending joke.
If they were all going to arrive into the arc later, Prospero could have come then instead of needing so much panel time to explain how he and he alone got there. If they're waiting for another arc entirely, then why not save the revenge against him until then if Carrot will still be around? Zoro has waited two decades to face Mihawk, and we've been waiting almost as long for the Blackbeard fights. And we're obviously getting back to Big Mom again later for Elbaf stuff and to wrap up Sanji and Pudding, so those characters are going to be relevant again. There's no harm in delaying a given enemy if its a long term thing.
There is ZERO narrative reason for Oda to have gone so far out of his way to have brought Prospero into the mix, by himself, except to check off a box because he won't be able to do it later. Otherwise, if he could only bring in one threat to make the situation instantly worse and scary, then why not Katakuri? (Similar to when he dropped Kuma into Thriller Bark) If he's was only trying to move along lingering story beats, why not Pudding, who has a carpet that could have flown her there without a weird subplot tied to Marco.?
One of the most relevant aspects to Yamato's character is her being aware of Luffy for over three years since her encounter with Ace. Yamato has known about Luffy longer than any of the other Straw Hat Pirates.
That is super relevant point that I hadn't even thought about. Helps overshadow the whole joining late thing. And she really is already going all in full faith on Luffy despite just meeting him. And the interaction with Franky, and Franky in turn completely going along with it on the spot, was great. As was "Oh yeah, the floor was an option!"
There's lots of promises of "Carrot will someday soon show this particular quality finally"… that Yamato is ALREADY showing and doing.
Carrot WILL appreciate the Dawn. Carrot WILL want to travel the world. Carrot WILL ask Luffy to travel with him.
Yamato already checks all those boxes and has already done it.
Also, whatever Yamato's power/transformation is, it's not going to be condition locked to once a month in a power up Oda has already decided is kind of plain and not worth a whole lot of spectacle anymore, he off paneled most of the mink fights against Jack!
Yamato is already doing teamwork and tag teaming with the crew and being trusted by them and handling one of the most important missions they have right now, protecting Momo. Carrot... got sidelined off panel for an entire year and is now being paired with another mink to finish mink business and that's it.
The moon thing is less a deal breaker to me than the claws with electricity as a fighting style is
We know Oda loves to give all his main characters a huge variety of attacks, look at how many unique pop greens Usopp has or the different attacks and gears Luffy does with his powers, I just don’t know how much variety you can do with claws and electricity
Then again Oda managed to make a lot of attacks from a guy who only uses his legs and a guy who uses three swords, way more variety than I could have ever imagined, so knowing how creative and crafty Oda is it’s not impossible he’d make a unique fighter out of Carrot
The claws are cool and Carrot fights doing beautiful mid-air acrobatics. Her fights will never be visually boring as long as Oda nails the drawings.
Robby is hitting the nail on the head of this whole topic at the moment.
I am mostly thinking Yamato is going to join because…. she already feels like a crewmember. From her design to the story beats. No one since Jinbe has felt this way.
The claws are cool and Carrot fights doing beautiful mid-air acrobatics. Her fights will never be visually boring as long as Oda nails the drawings.
Your missing my point entirely
Each Straw Hat has a wide variety of moves that are extremely different, so they don't get stale
look at Zoro, he can use all three swords to do cool swordsmanship stuff like (Oni Giri and tiger hunting) but he can also create a whirlwind from spinning his blades so fast (Dragon Twister), he can even put away two swords and do a single sword strike that was his only attack for a while that could cut steel and also has a super cool finishing pose (Lion Song), he can increase the muscle in his right and left arm and then use his swords more as a punching attack (one gorilla two gorilla), he can even make projectiles with his swords using wind pressure (36 pound cannon) and then he even has 9 swords demon mode (Ashura)
another example is Sanji, in arlong park he starts his attack by using a lethal combination of fast attacks and then finishing with a big hit (Collier coup, Epaule Sprawl, Cotelette kabosh, Selle De Ouch, Poitrine Treader, Gigot Charlie Le Horse, and then finishes with Mouton Mallet) he has a move where he does a hand stand on a guys head then spins around kicking anyone nearby (party table kick course) he has one move he only uses on giants where he kicks them with his leg straight up and sends the massive opponents who are way bigger than him into the air (anti manner kick course) he has another set of moves that end in a lethal finisher simmilar to what he did to kurrobi but with Bon Clay (Basses Cote Blast, Longe Lasher, Tendron Tenderizer, Flanchet, Quasi Cracker, Queue Crippler, Cuisseau Crusher Jarret Jarrer then finshes with Veau Vengence) he does a move where he jumps high into the air and spins like a ball until he lands his foot on his oppents head using the momentum from the spin to crush there skull (Concasser Crush) and a whole bunch of other moves
and remember, this was all before he could do Diable Jambe, which he can now spin so fast his foot lights on literal fire and increasses his speed and power tremendously
and that was all before he got the raid suit, which can make him faster and invisble
each straw hat is like this, they have a huge variety of moves and keep getting new power ups/techinques so that there moves never get stale
so my question is how many diffrent moves/intresting attacks can carrot do with electic gloves
the only reason this isn't a deal breaker for her joining for me is because I never would have had the creativity to think up half those attacks for Zoro and Sanji in the first place let alone the other straw hats (Usopp's Pop Greens are crazy!!!) so just cause I can't imagine a whole set of cool moves for carrot doesn't mean Oda can't
so my question is how many diffrent moves/intresting attacks can carrot do with electic gloves
The answer is very simple: Carrot can have as many difference moves/interesting attacks as Oda wants. What makes a cool attack is a more matter of showing a striking pose that looks cool in a static shot, like Sanji, who with his feets alone have many different cool finishers and random kicks.
Anyway, we shouldn't be comparing Carrot against characters who have been explored in fights across 1000 chapters and that had to be constantly reinvented in order to keep being fresh. Of course it's essential that a main character have a cool fighting style, but a cool fighting style is not equal to quantity of moves. Quantity is only something that's added over time as the author needs to keep coming up with new moves to not let his characters get stale… so we have power ups, new random moves, new developments, whatever. But even then, Oda is very repetitive, just look at Zoro, whose finishers have been looking virtually the same since the timeskip (against the Pacifista, Hyouzou, Monet, Pika and Killer).
The amount of different moves a character should have should be proportional to the amount of fights he'll have in the series. So how many fights do we expect a new Strawhat to have until the end of the series? Frankly, at most 3 fights, I guess, but maybe even less considering recent history. So we don't have to worry about a lot of moves. We only a need a tight visual style to make for cool coreography with a cool finisher at the end.
I believe Carrot has more than enough to look very promising considering her few action scenes. Her main feature is jumping, which she does in style, with flips and mid-air acrobatics, and everything looks beautiful and graceful, so we can imagine many cool poses for random moves and finishers. Besides jumping, the claws are unique to her and add flavor to her attacks (slashes), especially with electro. At last, there's the sulong transformation, which adds dynamics and suspense to the fight.
If she eventually needs something new, I'm sure Oda can figure it out too...
I have stated this before (July) regarding Carrot's purpose but there is meaning behind the way she was introduced during the Zou Arc, her having met the Straw Hat Pirates, her journeying to Whole Cake Island and now her being present on Wano Kuni during the event that is about to shake the world completely. I still stand by my interpretation of Carrot's role from then. Carrot's exposure by Oda has been building her up as a close ally to the Straw Hat Pirates and a character who will grow into one assisting in bringing about "the dawn of the world". Not directly with the Straw Hat Pirates but alongside the allied forces they have accumulated across their journey. While Wano Kuni is the main Island during Momonosuke's journey that needs liberating, there is also Zou. And Carrot's role relates to that purpose - moving the nation forward alongside Wano Kuni.
Much like how Wano Kuni has been isolated for 800 years, so to has Zou. For a thousand years, the Mink community has not opened themselves up to the rest of the world. The Mink Tribe may not have prevented any of the Mink from leaving but they did not actively engage with other people/races/communities.
!
There needs to be a character that will come along that will change the status quo and move the nation into the new dawn. Aside from Pedro and Carrot, none of the other Mink's have been developed to fill such a role (certainly not Inuarashi or Nekomamushi who could have saved Wano Kuni earlier if they reached out to the Roger Pirate remnants and the Whitebeard Pirates twenty years ago when they retreated back to Zou). Nekomamushi may be waiting for the dawn but he has not been developed into a character that will work alongside the Straw Hat Pirates to see it arise. With Pedro having fallen in Whole Cake Island, Carrot now embodies that character stationed to open Zou up. Pedro's goal was to lay the foundation for the "dawning of the world" for the people he believes can bring it about. Pedro saved the Straw Hat Pirates but he did not accomplish his goal. Rather it appears, Pedro's will has been inherited by Carrot. She will assist in laying the foundation for the Straw Hat Pirates and the Kozuki clan (Momonosuke and Hiyori) to help guide the world to the "dawn".
Thanks to the Straw Hat Pirates, Carrot was able to experience the world outside Zou and learn about it. Thanks to the Whole Cake Island Arc, Carrot was able to see how coexistence between different races can look. And thanks to the Wano Kuni Arc, Carrot will come to realise the importance of a nation bringing down its borders and opening itself up to the rest of the world.
Carrot had been introduced as the open-minded Mink curious about the rest of the world yet naive of the thorns hidden behind its beauty. That has changed through the course of Carrot's journey. Whole Cake Island was one of the defining moments for Carrot. With Pedro's sacrifice, she experienced the bitterness life holds and yet at the same time had a purpose ingrained in her whether she realises it or not (a "bittersweet" development indeed - the title of chapter 877). Carrot's actions now show a maturity in her that was not present before when she first boarded the Thousand Sunny. Even if her reasoning for targeting Perospero is wanting, she is resolute in her opposition against him. As for Wanda being present in the fight against Perospero, that too plays a significant role in Carrot's story. One of Carrot's mentor figure is now present with her to witness the growth she has had over the course of her journey. Wanda will come to understand Carrot is not the sheltered child she was before. Carrot has matured and is now beginning to thread forward on her own feet. With Wanda's endorsement of Carrot's capabilities, I can see Carrot becoming more prominent in the Mink society and ultimately becoming a representative for the Minks when they reach out to other nations and people going forward. Carrot did find the mingling of different races in Whole Cake Island incredibly fascinating.
!
Looking at the type of coverage Carrot has had throughout her journey, I find myself noticing that whenever the Straw Hat Pirates were entering into alliances with others, Carrot was there to witness such events.
! Carrot was there when the Straw Hat Pirates befriended the Minks (including Pekoms);
Carrot was there when the Kin'emon revealed the bonds the Kozuki clan and the Mink tribe share;
Carrot was there when the Straw Hat Pirates met the Germa Kingdom (Reiju and Yonji) and witnessed Reiju save Luffy;
Carrot was there when the Straw Hat Pirates met Pudding and when Pudding declared to help them escape near the end of the arc;
Carrot was there when the Straw Hat Pirate met Pound and befriend him;
Carrot was there to see Jinbe helping the Straw Hat Pirates;
Carrot was there to hear the conversation between Nami and Chiffon with Chiffon being thankful to Nami for saving Lola;
Carrot was also there to witness Chiffon express to help the Straw Hat Pirates when Pudding picked up Sanji to help bake the cake;
Carrot was there to witness Luffy enter into an alliance with Gang Bege and "Gangster" Gastino;
Carrot was there to see Sanji save his family and accept their help during their crashing of Big Mom's tea party/wedding party;
Carrot was there to see Nami enslave Zeus;
Carrot was directly told by Pedro that he felt the Straw Hat Pirates were worth dying for - she will begin to understand why;
Carrot was there when Judge arrived with the Germa army to block the Big Mom Pirates in order for the Straw Hat Pirates to escape;
Carrot was there when the Fishman Pirates arrived to assist the Straw Hat Pirates escape;
Carrot was there to witness Jinbe use himself as a shield to ensure Luffy and Co. escape;
Carrot was there to witness Kin'emon open up about the events of the past;
Carrot was there to see Ashura's refusal to join the alliance and later him being part of it. Carrot also noted that there are others as strong as Inuarashi;
Carrot was there to see Drake cast his lot in with the Straw Hat Pirates;
Carrot has now met Marco and is aware that he is helping the Straw Hat Pirates
More focus has been given to Carrot understanding the power of bonds and connections than establishing her as a character deeply tied to an ordeal that requires the Straw Hat Pirates assistance to be liberated from.
If Oda wanted to develop Carrot as a Straw Hat nakama, I feel he would have included her in the discussion surrounding the Road Poneglyphs and the Straw Hat Pirates end goal. Or in the team battle the Straw Hat Pirates had when facing off against Big Mom. Such a battle showcased Jinbe's synergy with the crew, if Carrot were being developed as a future Straw Hat Pirate, this was the perfect opportunity to show how she synergises with [some] of the Straw Hat Pirates against a major opponent. Or in the events making up the first two acts of the Wano Kuni arc, especially Yasuie's execution. Or highlighted in the battle the Straw Hat Pirates had when taking the entrance of Onigashima Island. Or be focused on more when the whole crew assembled on the Live Floor. Or have Carrot enquire/wonder about the dawn Pedro was referring to (it has been around 15-16 days since Pedro's "death" in One Piece without Carrot showing any interest in it). Carrot would also have a story that is aligned with the Straw Hat Pirates mission on Onigashima opposed to an encounter that's tied more to clearing up her own conflicted mind. Ultimately, I believe Carrot's story going forward will only deviate away from being alongside the Straw Hat Pirates and turn into one where she assists them without traveling with them.
Once Carrot meets representatives of other nations, she could very well end up encouraging them to join with the Wano Kuni faction/alliance (with Momonosuke being the head that stands against Im and the World Government). If the World Government has targeted Vivi and made aggressive actions against her and Alabatsa, the support of other nations such as Dressrosa and Fishman Island could be wavering. Carrot could play a role in helping these nations side with Wano Kuni via meetings with Vivi, Shirahoshi, Rebecca/Viola/Manshelly. Additionally, I could see Carrot helping to establish a shared connection between the Wano Kuni faction and the vagrant nations such as the Germa Kingdom. Amazon Lily will also end up joining the Wano Kuni faction eventually.
Anyway that is my interpretation of Carrot's journey. I don't believe her role is merely a "revenge" based one but I also don't see her being developed as a future Straw Hat nakama.
He was though?
The first thing she says is this, basically saying she wants to open the country, hence fight on their side, and then follow Luffy to see the world.! [qimg]https://s6.mangabeast01.com/manga/One-Piece/0984-013.png[/qimg]
! [qimg]https://s6.mangabeast01.com/manga/One-Piece/0984-014.png[/qimg]And in the next chapter, she says this, basically since she is Oden now, and Luffy is related to Ace, he is supposed to let her on his ship, basically to do the same as Oden and go out to the sea.
! [qimg]https://s6.mangabeast01.com/manga/One-Piece/0985-008.png[/qimg]
! [qimg]https://s6.mangabeast01.com/manga/One-Piece/0985-009.png[/qimg]She never implied that going out to sea is part of Oden´s will for Wa No, the dawn and all that is related to it, she says it as someone who wants to be Oden who got to go to sea and has seen all that he wrote down in his journal.
I mean sure, there could technically be something else that needs to be done, but this was neither implied, nor would it be appropriate if you ask me at this point when we are so close to the end, maybe that´s just me.So following the dialogue strictly, she says Red Scabbards and Momo dead -> she needs to carry Oden´s will -> she will open the country against her father.
And Yama clearly says she has challenged her father many times, and was beaten many times and then put into prison and shackles.
So far, carrying Oden´s will has always been about opening up the country (see also Zou), articulated at his execution that the Scabbards and Yama witnessed.
you’re missing the key part at the end of the chapter where Kaidou essentially gave Yamato rule over Wano at the end of chapter 985 and he said hell no.
And even in the pictures you noted. He’s prioritizing travel over fulfilling Oden’s desires, as if traveling the seas is a prerequisite to completely fulfill Oden’s will.
Originally Posted by Nightwing
Stay focused, cause right now you have a decision to make. Are you a man perpetually looking back at what he’s lost, or a man looking forward, to what he might become?
Syphin, Robby, Doboro really hit my line thinking with Yamato.
I can't add much, but I'm sure Ace raved about Luffy during his stay on Wano however since Yamato wanted to travel with Ace, I'm sure shedidn't completely buy into Luffy at the time. I'm pretty positive the buy in must've been when Ace's death happened, Yamato probably witnesses it and all of Luffy's actions, that's probably what started it. Just my conjecture on it.
Also if Yamato is somehow connected to the weird Shanks and Kaidou clash from Amazon Lily, there's your foreshadow, big 'if' though.
you’re missing the key part at the end of the chapter where Kaidou essentially gave Yamato rule over Wano at the end of chapter 985 and he said hell no.
And even in the pictures you noted. He’s prioritizing travel over fulfilling Oden’s desires, as if traveling the seas is a prerequisite to completely fulfill Oden’s will.
She doesn´t, i clearly laid out what has been said.
Join the fight in order to beat Kaidou and Orochi and open the country, and then travel the world.
Neither has been shown to be more important than the other, but if anything, taking up Oden´s will to open up the country is taken up by her because the ones to do it are dead in her mind, meaning Scabbards and Momo.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Syphin, Robby, Doboro really hit my line thinking with Yamato.
I can't add much, but I'm sure Ace raved about Luffy during his stay on Wano however since Yamato wanted to travel with Ace, I'm sure shedidn't completely buy into Luffy at the time. I'm pretty positive the buy in must've been when Ace's death happened, Yamato probably witnesses it and all of Luffy's actions, that's probably what started it. Just my conjecture on it.
Also if Yamato is somehow connected to the weird Shanks and Kaidou clash from Amazon Lily, there's your foreshadow, big 'if' though.
Did she buy into Luffy completely yet? At least from what i remember, not yet.
She sees Luffy as someone strong and capable, but also as Ace´s brother still, and since Ace is dead, it´s logical that Luffy should be the one to give her a ride basically, this is where we stand. From what i gathered, she really wanted to travel with Ace but she got imprisoned for a long time (who knows how she met Ace then), and now that Ace is dead, she waited for Luffy instead.
Some people have said she is waiting for Luffy since she met Ace but i do not find this substantiated anywhere, more the opposite since she wanted to travel with Ace.
And then he died 2 years ago, so i would say she was hoping for Luffy since then.
I think she will buy into Luffy completely either when we get the Yamato equivalent of Luffy holding up Hililuk´s flag (for Chopper), Luffy´s declaration of war on WG (for Franky and Robin) and so on, or if she somehow believes Luffy is JB´s inheritor.
THe difference between the strawhats all completing their own goals and Carrot dealing with Preospero is… he was singlehandedly dragged fromm Big Mom's crew and wedged into the narrative entirely to get to his dangling plot thread.
He didn't arrive with the rest of Big Mom's forces, he couldn't wait till the next arc, he didn't present an immediate threat, he's just a random side obstacle that doesn't connect to anything else in the arc. Meanwhile Cracker and Smoothie and Katakuri and other big threats all just... wait on the ship at the bottom of the waterfall like a neverending joke.
We knew the confrontation between Carrot and Peros was coming for a long time. The whole fleet coming along was just the excuse to get BM and Peros, the main players in Carrot’s story, on the field.
If they were all going to arrive into the arc later, Prospero could have come then instead of needing so much panel time to explain how he and he alone got there. If they're waiting for another arc entirely, then why not save the revenge against him until then if Carrot will still be around?
Because he and BM are the direct cause of Carrot’s vendetta. She faces them now, and she’s free to do whatever it is she’s gonna do. That could be joining the SHs, it could be something else. But many of the other SHs faced the demons of their pasts before joining. That’s what Carrot’s doing now.
Zoro has waited two decades to face Mihawk, and we've been waiting almost as long for the Blackbeard fights.
Mihawk is his goal, not the cause of his trauma.
And we're obviously getting back to Big Mom again later for Elbaf stuff and to wrap up Sanji and Pudding, so those characters are going to be relevant again. There's no harm in delaying a given enemy if its a long term thing.
If you think BM will be present in Elbaf, that is. As I’ve said, I don’t.
There is ZERO narrative reason for Oda to have gone so far out of his way to have brought Prospero into the mix, by himself, except to check off a box because he won't be able to do it later. Otherwise, if he could only bring in one threat to make the situation instantly worse and scary, then why not Katakuri? (Similar to when he dropped Kuma into Thriller Bark) If he's was only trying to move along lingering story beats, why not Pudding, who has a carpet that could have flown her there without a weird subplot tied to Marco.?
And what narrative reason was there to kill Pedro in the first place? That’s the question we keep asking and still have no answer for.
There's lots of promises of "Carrot will someday soon show this particular quality finally"… that Yamato is ALREADY showing and doing.
Carrot WILL appreciate the Dawn.
If what Pedro foretold comes to be, yes, she will.
Carrot WILL want to travel the world.
She already started by jumping onto the Sunny of her own volition. Who’s to say she won’t want to continue?
Carrot WILL ask Luffy to travel with him.
Or Luffy will. Or they’ll ask at the same time. Or no one will, as we’ve acknowledged is possible more than once.
Yamato already checks all those boxes and has already done it.
I keep saying this, I know, but the fact that Yamato was seemingly built as the perfect candidate, was so up front about asking, and yet was introduced so late makes me very apprehensive. The one time it was that easy was with Brook, and that was the joke: someone being asked and accepting so easily. It’s like the idea of a beautiful meat-carrying swordswoman actually joining the crew; it’s way too on the nose.
Also, whatever Yamato's power/transformation is, it's not going to be condition locked to once a month in a power up Oda has already decided is kind of plain and not worth a whole lot of spectacle anymore, he off paneled most of the mink fights against Jack!
Maybe because he didn’t want to detract from when Dog and Cat did it? And Carrot and Wanda are gearing up for a fight as Sulongs right now, so I don’t know what you mean by not worth a lot of spectacle. Anyway, Carrot has shown she’s pretty strong without it, strong enough to fend off regular enemies and free herself (and nearly kill Luffy, har har). The Sulong is a trump card, but it doesn’t have to be all she’s good for.
Yamato is already doing teamwork and tag teaming with the crew and being trusted by them and handling one of the most important missions they have right now, protecting Momo. Carrot… got sidelined off panel for an entire year and is now being paired with another mink to finish mink business and that's it.
The fights in One Piece usually reveal some insight about the characters and/or their opponents. To think nothing will change through the fight with Peros makes no sense to me. If that were the case, They could have just beaten Peros with that one attack. Carrot and Wanda could have come out of Sulong worn out and be done. But the fight’s not over, and with it will come some explanation about what Pedro’s death was all for.
Like the Avatar? / Like the Miis?
Dragalia Lost ID: 97617932505
And what narrative reason was there to kill Pedro in the first place? That’s the question we keep asking and still have no answer for.
Why did Pekoms, Pound, King Baum, Jinbe, the fishmen, and all of Sanji's family have to die in that arc? Why did Sanji and Pudding have a sad ending? To dramatically raise the stakes and show this is serious business.
Except most of those players have been showed to be fine now once the drama didn't need them dead anymore.
Maybe because he didn’t want to detract from when Dog and Cat did it?
Who then had their fights (and all the other minks) against Jack completely off camera, and have gotten exactly one attack on Kaidou, and are now falling?
And Carrot and Wanda are gearing up for a fight as Sulongs right now, so I don’t know what you mean by not worth a lot of spectacle.
With zero dramatic buildup or weight to it or even time to show the transformations happening this time around. They're just in the forms now already in the middle of the fight.
Why did Pekoms, Pound, King Baum, Jinbe, the fishmen, and all of Sanji's family have to die in that arc? Why did Sanji and Pudding have a sad ending? To dramatically raise the stakes and show this is serious business.
Except most of those players have been showed to be fine now once the drama didn't need them dead anymore.
Pedro. Is. Dead. You do acknowledge that, right? I honestly can't tell from reading this. Body or not, his fate has been unambiguously clarified multiple times now. There's nothing left to be said about that.
And with that being the case, you can't seriously compare him to those close calls Oda likes to pull. That finality puts Pedro on the level of Ace, WB and Tonoyasu, whose deaths were meant to greatly change the course of the story. The question is, what has changed with his?
Who then had their fights (and all the other minks) against Jack completely off camera, and have gotten exactly one attack on Kaidou, and are now falling?
They had a great showing at the time, IMO. But again, Sulong is still being showcased with Carrot and Wanda. There's no telling what will come of it.
With zero dramatic buildup or weight to it or even time to show the transformations happening this time around. They're just in the forms now already in the middle of the fight.
Like other transformations, power ups, and special moves we've seen? We get how it works, we don't need the whole routine each time, and it worked to take Peros by surprise. None of that confirms Sulong to be less potent.
Like the Avatar? / Like the Miis?
Dragalia Lost ID: 97617932505
Pedro. Is. Dead. You do acknowledge that, right?
Any time someone phrases a question as "You know ____ right?" is a real asshole way to ask a question. Please don't do it in the future. I used to lead questions exactly like that too, and I probably still do from time to time, and I try not too now whenever I catch myself doing it because its really poor approach that tries to trap the other person or make them feel stupid.
Same with "well actually" and "To be fair…" Those phrases automatically assumes you know something about the speaking partner, their situation, their opinion, and potentially unstated information and you're leading with that phrasing and implying that they're missing information through either neglect or ignorance.
It's incredibly rude. But you already know that, right?
That aside, We've gone over this many many many times. You know exactly what the answer is, so I don't know why you are asking again.
.
I acknowledge that Oda is treating him as dead more than usual, and for purposes of general discussion accept that his is.
But Oda's done fake outs, including both giant explosions with no body, AND false graves, and had multi-year long waits between revivals before. (A decade in Bellamy and Mr.9's case) Until Pekoms or the eventual cake island cover story show up it can go any which way Oda chooses once it's no longer dramatically important.
If when the minks are all said and done, and he's still dead, that's fine. But if he's secretly alive and well, I will not be surprised in the least.
I will allow that Pedro is dead for the sake of the story, but I will not go along with it as evidence for future developments, especially ones at least thee years and 150+ chapters after the fact. That's a far wider assumption to make and believe in.
Monet ain't dead either but props to Oda for keeping her and Vergo out for so long.
And with that being the case, you can't seriously compare him to those close calls Oda likes to pull. That finality puts Pedro on the level of Ace, WB and Tonoyasu,
Who all died on camera, left their bodies in sight, had main character witnesses see it first hand, left zero doubt, and had the full weight of their given chapter building up to it. (Ditto flashback deaths generally.)
If Oda well and truly intended for Pedro to be permanently dead at the time, he missed the mark and delivered that chapter poorly in a way he didn't with any other death scene, and didn't get around to trying to give it weight until after the fact. He didn't set up and develop bonds beforehand, he didn't give that scene any weight where it helped long term.
Their reactions, including what Jinbe said, were near identical to the fake out death Bon Kurei had.
It wasn't their final escape during that arc, just one of many… and all the later ones ALSO took "sacrifices" to let them get away.
Oda's human, so he's allowed to get it wrong sometimes and not deliver his best, but his track record of making you feel and believe in the moment is stronger in all the other confirmed cases, where whenever he's doing a fake out it just... has less emotional weight to it. Its a hard thing to explain or quantify, but it's there.
If Pedro's death was supposed to be important, and special, maybe he and Carrot should have had chemistry and back history earlier, not just one panel added after the fact. Maybe Pekoms, Pound, Baum, the fishmen, Jinbe, and Sanji's family should not have all then sacrificed themselves following that, or maybe it should have just been the last, or even only sacrifice that arc...
It feels empty and hollow because Oda did the exact same thing SIX MORE TIMES within 20 or so chapters during the same escape so there's no weight to it. He even had a fake death of the Sunny in there. That's why its unbelievable and holds no weight.
That's what honestly we've been saying for a long time. What could she have done that no other character that was present or in her situation could do? Why did Oda have this random character for so long if she was meant to be irrelevant? If a lot of the earlier reasons that people had claimed in regards to her character were true, why couldn't it have been done with literally any other Mink present?
Her role in the narrative is uncertain and that's what makes it weird in regards to her. She is so independent from the plot you begin to question what Oda's goal was to even have her. He doesn’t do things for no reason and why Chapter 877 is what we cling to is, like I said before, was the only real insight to what her purpose in WCI was to do and what she will do once she finds out has always been unclear and uncertain.
So your point is that Carrot's irrelevancy and lack of redeeming qualities are proof Oda is planning to make her relevant as a twist?
That's… an opinion.
One Piece deaths have two stages: inside the arc and in the epilogue.
Characters die during the arc to give it weight and drama.
After that, the character can ve revealed to be alive if Oda wants to, just because it would be too sad to loose them forever.
It is possible to see an epilogue to Doflamingo many many years in the future in which Vergo and Monet are revealed to have survived, sort of like the Mr. 9 in the covers
This was very nice to read. I'll just add that Yamato probably watched Ace die from Onigashima.
Thanks :D. Yeah, Yamato would have been heartbroken to hear about Ace's execution, someone she respected and befriended (one of the few friends she had). Considering even after the events in Marineford that may have led to Yamato feeling even more powerless (not being able to save/help Momonosuke/Ace) and the Straw Hat Pirates going without activity for two years, I find it incredible that Yamato was still able to believe in Luffy and his arrival to Wano Kuni. Those actions are very relevant to Yamato's possibility of becoming a Straw Hat Pirate. If it ends up being revealed that the Octopus who guided the Straw Hat Pirates to Wano Kuni was stationed there by Yamato because of her belief in the Straw Hat Pirates arrival, it would majorly help Yamato's chances of joining the crew as it would establish that Yamato had a role from the very start of the Wano Kuni Arc.
Yamato could not leave Onigashima due to the explosive bindings Kaido placed on her twenty years ago. Despite her desire to want to open up the borders of Wano Kuni, she could not leave Onigashima to head to the main Wano Kuni Island(s) to confront Orochi and defeat him. There was only one day each year where Orochi visited Onigashima (Fire Festival) and during that time both Orochi's forces and the Beasts Pirates were gathered. Too many for one person to handle. Overwhelmed by such a task (defeating both Kaido and Orochi), Yamato began to rely on her belief in Luffy. And in believing Luffy's arrival was inevitable, Yamato could have created the plan to combat her inability of leaving Onigashima by using an Octopus (a friend of Yamato's who had the freedom to traverse the oceans) to help the Straw Hat Pirates enter Wano Kuni when they arrive near the Waterfall entrance. The Octopus seemed to be attracted aboard the ship after noticing the Straw Hat Skull Flag. And the Octopus only revealed itself and began to summon the Koi Fish after Luffy mentioned his name on the transponder snail (chapter 910).
!
I can't think of any other character the Octopus could be related to. Tama does have a way with Beast but at this point when the Octopus appeared, Tama had not met Luffy. The only person so far outside Luffy's allies relevant to Wano Kuni that knew about Luffy and believed in his arrival is…Yamato.
Would the Octopus have acted that way for any other pirate? Seeing as it didn't help the Big Mom Pirates, I don't think so.
One final note, after viewing the images Robby shared of the Oni (thanks for that Robby), Yamato could get a cool Epithet if she did become a pirate. An Epithet that embodies both the Oden legacy and her own blood - Aka Oni Yamato (Red Oni Yamato). 'Aka' inspired from the Akazaya Nine and Oni after the race she represents. Also that image of the Red Oni wielding a Kanabō AND a sword, what an inspiring set-up. I would LOVE to see Yamato wield both a Kanabō and a Meito to represent the two paths she will potentially choose to combine.
Damn, I didn't even notice the koi coming AFTER Luffy announced himself. Consider me pretty convinced of the speculation!
@Dorobō:
Also on the topic of power sets? No way is anyone going to join when they are only useful for a fight while the moon is out.
Uninteresting power set that is only at its best situationally?
I mean all this talk of character goals and such is stretching it as is but her power set needs a lot of work before anyone could take her seriously as an option.
The moon thing is less a deal breaker to me than the claws with electricity as a fighting style is
We know Oda loves to give all his main characters a huge variety of attacks, look at how many unique pop greens Usopp has or the different attacks and gears Luffy does with his powers, I just don’t know how much variety you can do with claws and electricity
Then again Oda managed to make a lot of attacks from a guy who only uses his legs and a guy who uses three swords, way more variety than I could have ever imagined, so knowing how creative and crafty Oda is it’s not impossible he’d make a unique fighter out of Carrot
I agree that Carrot needs more variety and named attacks to be a stronger option to join the Strawhat crew. Carrot has her big opportunity to display a unique skillset against Perospero. She is bound to show at least one new move in a major fight.
Current named moveset:
Eleclaw
Electrical Luna
Moon Raid (combo attack with Wanda)
Possible suggestions:
Rabbit Punch
Bunny Kick
Electric Mallet
Rabbit Hole
Hare Cut
Hop Kick
Moonsault Variations
One final note, after viewing the images Robby shared of the Oni (thanks for that Robby), Yamato could get a cool Epithet if she did become a pirate. An Epithet that embodies both the Oden legacy and her own blood - Aka Oni Yamato (Red Oni Yamato). 'Aka' inspired from the Akazaya Nine and Oni after the race she represents. Also that image of the Red Oni wielding a Kanabō AND a sword, what an inspiring set-up. I would LOVE to see Yamato wield both a Kanabō and a Meito to represent the two paths she will potentially choose to combine.
Doesn't that imply there is a blue oni somewhere?
Doesn't that imply there is a blue oni somewhere?
Chopper is turning into one right now!
I feel like there's a lot of assumptions being thrown around here. While I do think Robby has made some good points there are also some points made that rely on assumption. Like 'why force Perospero when he could confront Carrot on Elbaf?' just assumes Big Mom will be on Elbaf. I know that's a popular theory but there isn't actually any evidence that Big Mom will go to Elbaf. Her going to Elbaf has as much evidence backing it as her confronting Luffy on Fishman Island. Big Mom certainly isn't going down this arc but maybe the reason Perospero is here now is because there won't be a chance for it to happen in the future, not because Carrot isn't with the Straw Hats but because they won't confront the Big Mom pirates again? It's certainly a possibility, just as much as claiming Oda could have held it off for later.
Also Katakuri, Cracker and Pudding didn't come with Big Mom to Elbaf. Smoothie is probably the biggest threat from the Big Mom pirates that came with her but Perospero seems to be the only one with the ability to actually get to Onigashima after the ship was knocked down.
I feel like there's a lot of assumptions being thrown around here. While I do think Robby has made some good points there are also some points made that rely on assumption. Like 'why force Perospero when he could confront Carrot on Elbaf?' just assumes Big Mom will be on Elbaf. I know that's a popular theory but there isn't actually any evidence that Big Mom will go to Elbaf. Her going to Elbaf has as much evidence backing it as her confronting Luffy on Fishman Island. Big Mom certainly isn't going down this arc but maybe the reason Perospero is here now is because there won't be a chance for it to happen in the future, not because Carrot isn't with the Straw Hats but because they won't confront the Big Mom pirates again? It's certainly a possibility, just as much as claiming Oda could have held it off for later.
Also Katakuri, Cracker and Pudding didn't come with Big Mom to Elbaf. Smoothie is probably the biggest threat from the Big Mom pirates that came with her but Perospero seems to be the only one with the ability to actually get to Onigashima after the ship was knocked down.
As much as i dislike the thought and the implication, both the BM and Pudding plotline are incomplete at this point and need resolving.
You can argue/predict that somehow BM´s disease and her past will be resolved in this arc, which seems inappropriate but ok, but Pudding not being here is a clear sign she will come up again the future.
Having said that, of course one could argue that the manner in which they will remain relevant in Elbaf might be different than antagonistic, hence the Pedro stuff still needs to be resolved now, even if Carrot will stay until Elbaf.
Yes, too many assumptions pretending to be more. Carrot vs Perospero was always a plausible development (so kudos to people who predicted it while others were in doubt), but it's not like we know what's going to happen right now, if she's going to win or if she's going to lose, if there will be a rematch later in case she loses or not, if something meaningful will happen to Wanda for an emotional moment, if the fight will trigger a thematic development going further (like start talking about the Dawn) or if the fight will be completely offscreened and mostly irrelevant.
There's nothing definitive on the table right now.
Any time someone phrases a question as "You know ____ right?" is a real asshole way to ask a question. Please don't do it in the future. I used to lead questions exactly like that too, and I probably still do from time to time, and I try not too now whenever I catch myself doing it because its really poor approach that tries to trap the other person or make them feel stupid.
Same with "well actually" and "To be fair…" Those phrases automatically assumes you know something about the speaking partner, their situation, their opinion, and potentially unstated information and you're leading with that phrasing and implying that they're missing information through either neglect or ignorance.
It's incredibly rude. But you already know that, right?
That aside, We've gone over this many many many times. You know exactly what the answer is, so I don't know why you are asking again.
.I acknowledge that Oda is treating him as dead more than usual, and for purposes of general discussion accept that his is.
But Oda's done fake outs, including both giant explosions with no body, AND false graves, and had multi-year long waits between revivals before. (A decade in Bellamy and Mr.9's case) Until Pekoms or the eventual cake island cover story show up it can go any which way Oda chooses once it's no longer dramatically important.
If when the minks are all said and done, and he's still dead, that's fine. But if he's secretly alive and well, I will not be surprised in the least.
I will allow that Pedro is dead for the sake of the story, but I will not go along with it as evidence for future developments, especially ones at least thee years and 150+ chapters after the fact. That's a far wider assumption to make and believe in.
Monet ain't dead either but props to Oda for keeping her and Vergo out for so long.
Who all died on camera, left their bodies in sight, had main character witnesses see it first hand, left zero doubt, and had the full weight of their given chapter building up to it. (Ditto flashback deaths generally.)
If Oda well and truly intended for Pedro to be permanently dead at the time, he missed the mark and delivered that chapter poorly in a way he didn't with any other death scene, and didn't get around to trying to give it weight until after the fact. He didn't set up and develop bonds beforehand, he didn't give that scene any weight where it helped long term.
Their reactions, including what Jinbe said, were near identical to the fake out death Bon Kurei had.
It wasn't their final escape during that arc, just one of many... and all the later ones ALSO took "sacrifices" to let them get away.
Oda's human, so he's allowed to get it wrong sometimes and not deliver his best, but his track record of making you feel and believe in the moment is stronger in all the other confirmed cases, where whenever he's doing a fake out it just... has less emotional weight to it. Its a hard thing to explain or quantify, but it's there.
If Pedro's death was supposed to be important, and special, maybe he and Carrot should have had chemistry and back history earlier, not just one panel added after the fact. Maybe Pekoms, Pound, Baum, the fishmen, Jinbe, and Sanji's family should not have all then sacrificed themselves following that, or maybe it should have just been the last, or even only sacrifice that arc...
It feels empty and hollow because Oda did the exact same thing SIX MORE TIMES within 20 or so chapters during the same escape so there's no weight to it. He even had a fake death of the Sunny in there. That's why its unbelievable and holds no weight.
Sorry for being condescending. I get your skepticism to a certain point. But that point passed a long time ago, and my problem is you still consider the facts about Pedro flexible when they’ve been confirmed multiple times up to today. The death has weight, it has finality. There are many things up to interpretation in One Piece, but this is no longer one of them. That makes it hard for me to keep debating with you in good faith. I’ll acknowledge if I’m wrong, but if the certainty of his death isn’t something you can meet me on at this point, then I have nothing more to say, and we should probably leave it at that until this arc is over.
Like the Avatar? / Like the Miis?
Dragalia Lost ID: 97617932505
This post-Pell world is tearing us apart
Now that Law is officially aiming to discover more about the Will of the D, what's his future in the story? I suppose he needs to get to Laugh Tale too, but I don't imagine him doing that as a rival pirate, only as an ally or a proper crewmate. So is he going there to Laugh Tale together with Luffy?
I'm so used to the idea that Law won't join the crew that I don't know what to make of it now. I still believe he's going to die, but probably not in Wano now that he has a new personal mission, although it's still possible. I can imagine him telling Luffy to search for the meaning of his surname as his last wish before his death during the battle against Kaido. However, right now it seems more plausible that Law will only die in the endgame, or maybe not even die at all…
I'd say that Law is the most developed and fleshed out character of the New World, and say that as someone who is not a big fan of him. So at least in this department he qualifies as a proper main character. Great design, unique power, very popular, with a good and tragic flashback, well developed, lots of screentime given to him.
Well, if I had to bet, I'd bet against him joining, but maybe it should be part of the debate.
The straw hats are unique, yamato wants to be someone else. He also looks just like nami when he is angry at luffy, even has his own stick and shoots things out of it… like nami.
Pretty sure everything will happen so fast post-Wa No, him acquiring that as goal will not play a role since the entire world will learn it eventually.
Just underlines he will be an ally in the final war though.
And Law´s death does not serve any purpose, unless it´s really about the immortality surgery, which i doubt will come into play.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@uniaka:
The straw hats are unique, yamato wants to be someone else. He also looks just like nami when she is angry at luffy, even has her own stick and shoots things out of it… like nami.
Which ironically makes her unique on several layers. The Strawhats do not want to be unique, they simply are.
She did not shoot anything btw, it was a flying attack that simply was called arrow.
my problem is you still consider the facts about Pedro flexible when they’ve been confirmed multiple times up to today.
Because they ARE flexible. We haven't had shit confirmed.
Big explosion? Igaram. Pagaya.
Has a gravestone with no body in it? Pell.
Has characters crying over him while they escape on a boat? Bon Kurei.
Characters think he's dead for a long time? Sabo.
His death would serve as a crucial character development loss of mentor thing that shows all wars have costs for a main character? Pell to Vivi.
YES, Oda has put a little more weight on it by having the characters dwell on it a little more, but he also had Cake Island as a whole have a sadder ending than he usually does with multiple downer aspects. No party, Pudding crying, no Jinbe joining, no reunion between Pound and his daughters, Capone's ship destroyed, etc. But once you get past the downer ending of that arc and into this one where its apparently okay to be happy again, there isn't a single thing that applies to Pedro that Oda hasn't faked before.
I would ALMOST agree that "okay, Oda gave him a gravestone so that's proving more finality than usual and he's really putting his foot down on the matter" EXCEPT Pell has one! Heck, Pedro was even still included in the mink village color spread.
Also, he is strongly tied to Pekoms, they ALSO have history and "he's the only one that can calm him down". And no one has been upset or worried or acted liked Pekoms was in trouble, or is place to take over that role for him, even though he was left surrounded by enemies, going berserker, and possibly blinded. But we know he isn't dead, any more than Jinbe, the fishmen, or Pound were, or that King Baum and Sanji's family will be.
Even if Carrot and Wanda get closure on Pedro being dead now by beating the shit out of Perspero, what happens with the lion turtle? When does Oda stop and make time to cover his baggage related to this? WHo is the new person that can calm him down? Or is he just blind. dead and forgotten? That needs resolution too and he's not even on the island at the moment.
Like I said, I won't argue that he's alive because Oda HAS made a little more effort to make that point. I concede that he's more dead than some others have been and he might just stay that way.
But I'm not going to agree that he is 100% absolutely positively confirmed dead, , no backsies, either, because no body and no witnesses means no confirmation. Even Perspero didn't actually see it, and he'd be an untrustworthy witness if he did! No matter what the characters think. Oda left himself the out to be flexible with.
Luffy and Jinbe still think Bon Kurei is dead, and they cried and grieved over him, but it doesn't change his actual status.
ANy theory mongering that depends entirely 100% on that being a solid confirmed permanent fact, AND that the follow up on that being a fact and a major character moment that changes everything coming in a full three years later, I just can't support.
Pretty sure everything will happen so fast post-Wa No, him acquiring that as goal will not play a role since the entire world will learn it eventually.
Just underlines he will be an ally in the final war though.
And Law´s death does not serve any purpose, unless it´s really about the immortality surgery, which i doubt will come into play.
It's not only about Law will learning about history or not, but how he can influence Luffy based on this information, or how he will he take action personally, so he needs to be there. I doubt that Law will find out about the Will of D through the newspapers, especially because Oda is now putting the effort to create a plot-thread about Law looking for the truth, which needs proper development and resolution in the narrative.
In fact, I think it's relevant that Luffy has a D. friend close to him, because Luffy himself doesn't care about it. If he'll bring the Dawn to the world and overthrow the WG, it's because of current day events, like the great cleansing, slavery and his friends being threatened (Sabo and Vivi, for example)… not because of the past. So we need Law to digest the other part of the plot, or at least influence Luffy to actually care about his lineage.
Anyway, Law dying is obviously because of the immortality surgery. It may not happen, but the possibility is certainly there ever since it was mentioned. And it's always easy to find purpose in characters' deaths... it's just a matter of context and themes...
Nobody in OP is all dead. At worst they're mostly dead / slightly alive to awaiten Odas inevitable backslide into pointless reanimation. I'd love for the story to have some real stakes and a feeling of finality for those big moments, but this is OP and any heartfelt sacrifice will be undone because thats how Odas likes to work
It's not only about Law will learning about history or not, but how he can influence Luffy based on this information, or how he will he take action personally, so he needs to be there. I doubt that Law will find out about the Will of D through the newspapers, especially because Oda is now putting the effort to create a plot-thread about Law looking for the truth, which needs proper development and resolution in the narrative.
In fact, I think it's relevant that Luffy has a D. friend close to him, because Luffy himself doesn't care about it. If he'll bring the Dawn to the world and overthrow the WG, it's because of current day events, like the great cleansing, slavery and his friends being threatened (Sabo and Vivi, for example)… not because of the past. So we need Law to digest the other part of the plot, or at least influence Luffy to actually care about his lineage.
Anyway, Law dying is obviously because of the immortality surgery. It may not happen, but the possibility is certainly there ever since it was mentioned. And it's always easy to find purpose in characters' deaths... it's just a matter of context and themes...
Why does Law need to influence Luffy?
Anyway, it´s not about Law learning about it in newspapers, pretty sure we will see something related to CoO or something similar that spreads the truth, not my idea to be honest, don´t remember who came up with it, but the person underlined that Rayleigh mentioning every person having CoO will not stay irrelevant.
Law leaving Wa No and saying he will look for the last RP is good enough, i do not agree with the need of seeing him in any capacity for the narration.
Might as well argue all Ds will be there (or need to be there) since they all are influenced by the weird fate Sengoku alluded to and which Law mentioned in the latest chapter, admittedly do not share the degree of interest as Law in it, but still. Dragon makes sense considering his goal, or Garp learning for whom he has worked all these years (though apparently he has no illusions regarding the Tenryuubito anyway).
Luffy being involved or rather stimulated into action by personal investment is a constant theme throughout the story, which you also alluded to, but i see no reason why Luffy needs to care about the bigger picture at the end of the story when he has never cared before. The essential part has always been about the implication of Luffy´s actions, never about his directly and consciously targeted goal.
He did not beat Croc because he cared about Ancient Weapon or Alabasta per se, it was about Vivi mostly.
Did not prevent the WG getting the only one to awake the ACs, he got a friend back, and the list goes on.
It has almost always been a fortunate by-effect that whatever Luffy wanted personally coincided with the greater good (except maybe Impel Down).
I doubt this will ever change significantly. To be fair, Wa No had him play Robin Hood for an instance, but once again what drew him into action was really only Tama.
That´s true for a different story than OP, though this might have changed with Yasu´s death i guess.
On a general note, I'm expecting that the fight with Perospero won't be easy, even with Carrot and Wanda fighting together. Not impossible, but he certainly deserves his high bounty, and the Sulong stamina will be a factor. He'll probably have some taunting left to do, as well. But I think it'll be a good show and give some insight into what Carrot ultimately wants.
Like the Avatar? / Like the Miis?
Dragalia Lost ID: 97617932505
What do you guys think Yamato’s devil fruit is? I think it might be a White Tiger Zoan
What do you guys think Yamato’s devil fruit is? I think it might be a White Tiger Zoan
Artificial Male Dragon
Mythical Hito Hito no Mi - Model Kijo
"Kijo is a broad term that in its most general sense encompasses any female demon, just as the term oni can technically refer to any male demon. Indeed, the name kijo is formed simply by combining the two kanji for oni and woman. They work solo, and have their own motives. Further, kijo and oni are not commonly seen together."
!
Present time character deaths in One Piece is a very fascinating subject. Over the course of the story it becomes clear that Oda rarely kills off present time named characters preferring instead to incapacitate characters via defeats or injuries. Through the interpretation of logic, the situations certain characters are subject to should have an obvious end but time and time again, logic has been dissolved in favour of the desires held by Oda. It may just be my interpretation but with Oda's handling of death to present time important named characters, he has established that before he is willing to completely end a character’s life, their death must be able to significantly move the story forward and their will is able to be inherited by another character or characters still existing within the One Piece world. That way, even though the character has died, their role in the story is not over with their will being inherited and still influencing the world of One Piece. The prime examples of this are Whitebeard and Ace where the ripples of their deaths are still impacting the story and characters of One Piece.
In Pedro's case, given that I believe Carrot will eventually inherit his will, I don't disagree with him being "dead" but I do not agree with the impossibility that Pedro could be alive. Carrot has not inherited Pedro's will yet. What if Carrot never does? Until we get confirmation that Pedro’s will has been inherited by Carrot and/or Pekoms, he has yet to be fully embraced by the arms of death. Yes he was central to the bomb explosion. Yes he has a gravestone. Yes the story heavily implied he died. But as Robby mentioned, Pell also had all those things going for him and Oda revealed him alive once the arc was dealt with. If Pedro’s will is inherited that is a sure sign that Oda intends for Pedro to stay dead. Until then, regardless of how implausible, Pedro death is not 100%. Pedro having a chapter title during his sacrifice as is the case with other important present time characters that have died (Ace, Whitebeard and Shimotsuki Yasuie) does lead me to lean towards him being dead but I am just waiting to see if Carrot inherits the will of Pedro (she has not made the slightest mention of Pedro's dream/goal at all since his sacrifice - it has been around 15-16 days).
The obvious reluctance by Oda to fully represent the moment a character kills another is incredibly telling about Oda’s intention. If a present time named character is not confirmed dead and if inherited will is not a driving force in their character, the chances of them being fully dead in One Piece are not 100%. With each significant character death the story has a character ready to inherit the dead characters will and carry it into the future.
| East Blue Saga: Number of present time character deaths: 1:
I am including Higuma as a present time named character because the One Piece story did begin during that time and then jumped ten years forward to focus on Luffy leaving Foosha Village to form his own Pirate crew and find the treasure One Piece.
Fake outs:
Both have been confirmed to be alive. |
| Alabasta Saga: Number of present time character deaths: 5:
[Oda did have the Island Eater killed at the end of the Little Garden arc (though it is technically not a “character”)]
Both the Tsumegeri Guards and Mr 11 were exposition characters to highlight Baroque Works.
Fake outs:
|
| Skypiea Saga: Number of present time character deaths: 2:
Roshio like the Tsumegeri Guards weren’t significant characters to the respective arcs they were involved in and were primarily introduced to build up other characters, in this case Bellamy and his eventual one punch trashing at the fist of Luffy.
Fake outs:
|
| Water 7 Saga: Number of present time "character" deaths: 1
Technically not a person but a character nonetheless that the readers have come to form an emotional connection with. The death of the Going Merry helped to set-up Franky joining the crew and making way for the Thousand Sunny to be introduced which has now inherited the will of the Going Merry. Franky has also gone on to create the Mini Merry II to honour the original ship and to keep its memory alive.
Fake outs:
These characters were all blown off Enies Lobby when the Marines attacked. They all showed up later alive and revealed that Paulie saved them all with his ropes.
The fates of the CP9 and Spandam were also left up in the air with the readers presuming them to be dead until they appeared in the CP9’s Independent Report cover page story. |
| Thriller Bark Saga: Number of present time character deaths: 0
The Thriller Bark saga recorded no present time named character deaths unless you count the zombies whom are already dead like Ryuuma’s corpse. |
| Summit War Saga: Number of present time character deaths: 2
Ace was intimately linked to the overarching story of One Piece with Roger being his father. Ace dying provided Luffy with a reason to take time to train before entering the New World. Ace’s will has been inherited by Luffy and Sabo. Ace’s death allowed for Sabo’s entrance to become more meaningful and relevant. Additionally, Ace is part of the reason why Jinbe has become so connected with Luffy. Ace and his actions in the past continue to reverberate throughout the story of One Piece with them becoming relevant to the story unraveling inside Wano Kuni.
As for Whitebeard, he rejuvenated the passion driving pirates by confirming the existence of One Piece. It inspired a new generation of Pirates. Whitebeard’s death ended an era and set the scene for a new era to begin, an era defined by the members of the Worst Generation. In addition, Whitebeard dying allowed for Blackbeard to attain a second Devil Fruit power enabling him to wield seismic powers on top of his darkness. Further story threads dealing with Whitebeard’s past and his legacy are continuing to develop through the story of One Piece such as his history with the Rocks Pirates and his connection with Weevil and Bakkin. Whitebeard’s will has been inherited by the remnants of the Whitebeard Pirates and likely also by Weevil who has been conditioned to believe he is Whitebeard’s son.
There were also plenty of non-named characters killed in level 6 Impel Down when Teach proposed his offer. Plus there is that Marine Sakazuki killed for fleeing the war because they did not want to die out of concern for their family.
Fake outs:
|
| Fish-Man Island Saga: Number of present time character deaths: 0
The Fish-Man Island saga recorded no present time named character deaths. Caribou did kill an unnamed Marine in the Return to Sabaody Arc.
Fake outs:
Vander Decken IX who appeared to have died after being injured by Hody and hitting his head which subsequently stopped his Devil Fruit power from affecting Noah. Vander Decken IX is alive though imprisoned along with the New Fish-Man Pirates who only aged from the effects of the Energy Steroid. |
| Dressrosa Saga: Number of present time character deaths: 0
No character has been fully confirmed to have died during the Dressrosa Saga, although there is that Donquixote Pirate subordinate Law transferred places with when Doflamingo expressed his anger on “Law”. Not sure if he did die though. Dragon Number Thirteen and Smiley did die but they were created by scientist as experiments.
Unconfirmed status:
Both Vergo and Monet's final moment on Punk Hazard were “portrayed” as “death's” but given Oda’s writing style before these cases and since these cases, the likely scenario is Oda did not kill off Vergo and Monet. Rock and Scotch were also left on Punk Hazard and presumably succumbed to the Shinokuni Gas but they are likely still alive. There are several reasons for why I believe Monet and Vergo are alive with one of them being this comment from Law:
!
Oda does not want to associate Law with the concept of murder which is why he has not had Law kill any characters yet. Given how Law was directly involved in Vergo’s situation at the end of the Punk Hazard and indirectly involved with Monet’s scenario when he handed her heart back Caesar, if both of those characters were killed, Law would have been responsible to an extent for both of their deaths. Add this to Oda’s writing style and those are the reasons why I don’t believe Vergo and Monet are dead. Law aka. “Surgeon of Death” will continue to be a character that does not kill. This is even more relevant after chapter 996.
Fake outs:
Also important to note, Law helped the kids and removed the poison from their bodies. The kids were then taken to Vegapunk to be fully cured.
The arc that featured one of the most brutal, bloodthirtsty and sadistic antagonist in the One Piece story led to zero present time casuallties. In order to avoid characters from dying both named and unnamed, Oda introduced Mansherry and her Chiyu Chiyu no Mi which allowed her to heal any wound or injury. As a result, even with Doflamingo’s birdcage and his intention to kill everyone, no one in Dressrosa died. |
| Yonko Saga (ongoing): Number of present time character deaths (as at chapter 996): 2
Once Carrot and/or Pekoms inherits Pedro's will, he will join Jigra and Yasuie on the list.
I have not included Absalom in the list of dead characters because I not so sure he is dead. The manner in how Oda has portrayed his apparent “death” is curiously suspicious. Why would Oda tease us with his death and not show us his body? If Oda wanted to, he could have had the Blackbeard Pirates exhibit Absalom’s corpse to Moria. The fact that Oda chose to keep Absalom’s body hidden is very conspicuous. It has been expressed throughout the series that in order to attain a Devil Fruit power which was already in the possession of another person, one would have to kill the user of that Devil Fruit. But when you think about it, so to was the fact that a person can only consume one Devil Fruit ability but Teach changed all that. What happens if Teach has discovered or developed a way in which to strip a person of their Devil Fruit ability without killing them? The Yami Yami no Mi can already nullify the ability users power, what happens if Teach developed his abilities further and is now able to suck the Devil Fruit power out of the individual? If Linlin’s Devil Fruit is able to suck the life out of someone while keeping them alive, why wouldn’t there be a fruit that is able to suck the power out of someone and also keep them alive i.e. Yami Yami no Mi? Until we see a corpse, I am of the mindset that Absalom is not 100% confirmed dead. Absalom’s life could also be what Teach leverages against Moria to force him to work with him. Or there is also zombie Absalom.
Jigra was an exposition character for Katakuri's introduction.
Yasuie’s final speech united the Wano Kuni rebels against Orochi and Kaido and inspired those listening that change is possible. Yasuie’s death helped expose the inability of Orochi and his cowardice. The manner in how Orochi reacted conveyed to the people how fearful Orochi was of his reality and how unfit he is as their Shogun. Yasuie helped to throw confusion on Orochi’s schemes when Orochi received information from Kanjuro. As for Yasuie’s will, it has been inherited by the Akazaya Nine, the people of Kuri and even by Toko once she comes to terms with her father’s life having ended. Kaido and his Beast Pirates will be defeated and the Wano Kuni borders will be opened. All that Yasuie fought for will be achieved.
Unconfirmed status:
Fake outs:
Not even Moscato who was portrayed (chapter 829) as having been killed when he was attacked by Big Mom when she went on a Hunger Rampage. Moscato shows up later in the arc alive on the Queen Mama Chanter (chapter 901).
There was also the incident with Pound and how his actions against Oven appeared to have led to his execution but as illustrated through the “Gang” Bege’s Oh My Family cover story, Pound is still alive and has reunited with his daughters. |
Having looked at the characters who Oda has had killed in the present time, they are either: unnamed character, exposition characters that set up the threat of the antagonist, or named characters whose death contributes significantly to the development of the story and whose will ends up being inherited by an existing character(s) within the story.
The difference between exposition characters and the other named characters lie primarily in the importance they serve within the story of One Piece. If an exposition character were removed, their omittance would not change the story of One Piece at all.
With those characters whose fates have not yet been fully confirmed, as much as some of those characters have been portrayed as being killed, one has to interpret their fates through the writing style of Oda. As for their deaths contributing significantly to the development of the story, the only character present in that list that could serve such a function is Pedro. If Pedro’s will is inherited by Carrot (and Pekoms) and that becomes a reason for Carrot to pursue a certain path, than Pedro’s death would have served an important purpose within the story and at the same time allow his will to continue living on through Carrot (and Pekoms).
None of the other characters in the above list have had characters close to them introduced that could end up inheriting their wills. As such, I do not believe at this point in time Vergo, Monet, Sheepshead, Ginrummy, Pekoms, Bobbin, Du Feld, Charlotte Opera, Kingbaum and Absalom have been killed off yet. They will at some point in some form appear again in the One Piece manga.
Why does Law need to influence Luffy?
He doesn't need to, but I'm giving you an example of how it can happen, and I think that's the most obvious way for this to play out. I'm trying to not be too specific about the hows and whys, but there should be a role for Law as a D., as someone who is curious about his bloodline and mission. You see, Law's role in Dressrosa and his future role as an ally against the WG don't need him to be a D. at all, so why is he? We have to wonder why Oda decided to make him part of the lineage, what's the plan, how this will be used as a device in the narrative, in which way Law can contribute not only as a fighter, but as vessel for a thematic development.
Since Luffy is the protagonist and the bringer of the Dawn, not Law, then it makes sense that Law's role is to influence Luffy or, alternatively, to digest that plotline through his point of view before Luffy does what he wil do anyway.
Anyway, it´s not about Law learning about it in newspapers, pretty sure we will see something related to CoO or something similar that spreads the truth, not my idea to be honest, don´t remember who came up with it, but the person underlined that Rayleigh mentioning every person having CoO will not stay irrelevant.
What? I have no idea what you're talking about.
Law leaving Wa No and saying he will look for the last RP is good enough, i do not agree with the need of seeing him in any capacity for the narration.
Might as well argue all Ds will be there (or need to be there) since they all are influenced by the weird fate Sengoku alluded to and which Law mentioned in the latest chapter, admittedly do not share the degree of interest as Law in it, but still. Dragon makes sense considering his goal, or Garp learning for whom he has worked all these years (though apparently he has no illusions regarding the Tenryuubito anyway).
I never thought we needed him at all for anything post-Wano… I just think that's the direction we're going now that Oda is building up this premise. Obviously, there are other possible outcomes, but if Law is alive for the endgame, then it makes sense for him to board the Sunny for Laugh Tale.
Btw, Law already knows that Laugh Tale is where he needs to go to find out about the D., and he knows that he needs the Road Poneglyphs, and he knows that he needs someone to read it, and he knows that he can't beat Luffy in this goal. What makes the most sense for him is to go with Luffy. Law is not like Kid who is still trying to measure himself against Luffy, and it doesn't look like he wants to become the Pirate King or something like that. Law cares more about accomplishing other kinds of goals.
Luffy being involved or rather stimulated into action by personal investment is a constant theme throughout the story, which you also alluded to, but i see no reason why Luffy needs to care about the bigger picture at the end of the story when he has never cared before. The essential part has always been about the implication of Luffy´s actions, never about his directly and consciously targeted goal.
He did not beat Croc because he cared about Ancient Weapon or Alabasta per se, it was about Vivi mostly.
Did not prevent the WG getting the only one to awake the ACs, he got a friend back, and the list goes on.
It has almost always been a fortunate by-effect that whatever Luffy wanted personally coincided with the greater good (except maybe Impel Down).
I doubt this will ever change significantly. To be fair, Wa No had him play Robin Hood for an instance, but once again what drew him into action was really only Tama.
Sure, I agree. That's why we need Law to play this role in Luffy's place. We need a narrative vessel who cares about this deeper thematic reasons (and who has been present in the story), like Wiper who was crying at the end because maybe Noland and Calgara could be hearing the bell ringing from heaven.
Artificial Male Dragon
Mythical Hito Hito no Mi - Model Kijo
"Kijo is a broad term that in its most general sense encompasses any female demon, just as the term oni can technically refer to any male demon. Indeed, the name kijo is formed simply by combining the two kanji for oni and woman. They work solo, and have their own motives. Further, kijo and oni are not commonly seen together."
Oh, too bad, you fall in Nyannichuan. Spring of Drowned Girl. There very tragic legend of a young girl who drown there 1500 year ago. Now whoever fall in spring take body of a young girl…
He doesn't need to, but I'm giving you an example of how it can happen, and I think that's the most obvious way for this to play out. I'm trying to not be too specific about the hows and whys, but there should be a role for Law as a D., as someone who is curious about his bloodline and mission. You see, Law's role in Dressrosa and his future role as an ally against the WG don't need him to be a D. at all, so why is he? We have to wonder why Oda decided to make him part of the lineage, what's the plan, how this will be used as a device in the narrative, in which way Law can contribute not only as a fighter, but as vessel for a thematic development.
Since Luffy is the protagonist and the bringer of the Dawn, not Law, then it makes sense that Law's role is to influence Luffy or, alternatively, to digest that plotline through his point of view before Luffy does what he wil do anyway.
What? I have no idea what you're talking about.
I never thought we needed him at all for anything post-Wano… I just think that's the direction we're going now that Oda is building up this premise. Obviously, there are other possible outcomes, but if Law is alive for the endgame, then it makes sense for him to board the Sunny for Laugh Tale.
Btw, Law already knows that Laugh Tale is where he needs to go to find out about the D., and he knows that he needs the Road Poneglyphs, and he knows that he needs someone to read it, and he knows that he can't beat Luffy in this goal. What makes the most sense for him is to go with Luffy. Law is not like Kid who is still trying to measure himself against Luffy, and it doesn't look like he wants to become the Pirate King or something like that. Law cares more about accomplishing other kinds of goals.
Sure, I agree. That's why we need Law to play this role in Luffy's place. We need a narrative vessel who cares about this deeper thematic reasons (and who has been present in the story), like Wiper who was crying at the end because maybe Noland and Calgara could be hearing the bell ringing from heaven.
Depends on how much Oda had planned for that to happen. As Oda admitted himself, he had not planned for Law to stay relevant this much, so him being a D can easily be something he used to tie in both his statement from the pre-TS (Shabondy) and to create another layer for the fight against Doflamingo.
You can easily ask why Oda decided to make Saul a D, or Rouge. Sure these guys are flashback characters, but them being Ds did not really serve a purpose beyond easy tie-ins, like Ace´s name for example, though you could have also said that´s the part he took from Roger for example.
So i do not see the necessity of it being an overarching and overly relative thing to be honest.
Rephrasing: It has been a constant theme that the citizens of an island Luffy is rescuing learn the truth about their situation while the fight is either built up or is on-going.
So pretty sure somehow the world will learn about the truth about the void history by some means while everything is going down, and one possibility is that it is transmitted somehow through CoO with connecting the whole world to it.
See above. I do not see the necessity.
Him trying to find the last RP is good enough, like i said.
That´s everyone else.
Artificial Male Dragon
Mythical Hito Hito no Mi - Model Kijo
"Kijo is a broad term that in its most general sense encompasses any female demon, just as the term oni can technically refer to any male demon. Indeed, the name kijo is formed simply by combining the two kanji for oni and woman. They work solo, and have their own motives. Further, kijo and oni are not commonly seen together."
! https://cdnb.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/004/909/801/large/lex-sponge-kijo.jpg?1487142526
Oh cool, I've never heard of those before
what made you think she'd be one of these?
