Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

Syphin

Thanks for putting that table together. Just a couple of updates from me:

I think all of the Oniwabanshu were defeated with the Mimiwarigumi. Also was Fujin really not on Oniashima at any point? I feel like he was.

Shishilian was seen in the background in Nekomamushi's area (I think after Perospero was defeated) so he is at least outside with them. I imagine some other minks are as well (like the Monkey).

The guest parlour is the second floor and I don't think the remaining Numbers are in the basement, just drunk and asleep in a back room of the palace

Bepo, Shachi and Penguin are all in the right brain tower as they were last seen with Franky

If Cariou is a ? so should Shinbu as she could've also rode in on Momo like the other Heart Pirates must've done

Thanks for that. I did not notice Shishilian in chapter 1027 outside. Nice catch. There are also other Mink there but we can't see who exactly there are. As you said, Bariete is likely also outside considering he was riding Shishilian's shoulder in chapter 1012.

With Fujin, once he was defeated by Zoro I don't believe he had appeared again. He and some of the other Orochi Oniwabanshu weren't shown to be on Onigashima yet. I also believe the Orochi Oniwabanshu who challenged Hyogoro were defeated but with panel reference only the Mimiwarigumi and Daikoku and Kazekage were confirmed to have been defeated.

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With Bepo, Shachi and Penguin what chapter were they shown to be together with Franky? From what I have isolated, once the Heart Pirates entered Onigashima, they were shown in chapter 986 to be with Law. Once Law went to the basement to search for the Poneglyph (996) and then to the roof to fight Kaido and Big Mom (1000), the Heart Pirates were shown fighting in chapter 1003 in an open area that I thought was the Performance Floor but on second look they are in a different area - the roof is visible which wouldn't be the case if they were in the Performance Floor. And speaking of the ceiling, it appears different from the ceiling shown in the Right Brain Tower (black and white are inverted). And in chapter 1005 they are still shown fighting. I am not exactly sure where Bepo, Shachi and Penguin are. If you have a panel reference with them with Franky, please let me know. So much is going on during this Onigashima raid that it becomes easy to miss things >.<.
Edit: Thanks for the information Deicide and black-leg jex.

With the Numbers, yeah they could be anywhere on Onigashima. I just guessed basement because of the current inactivity and the relevance it will shortly have. I'll leave the floor blank for now.

Caribou is a curious case. He has yet to serve his purpose and I wonder where Oda plans to go with him. He could have made his way to Onigashima like the Heart Pirates or he could have remained in Udon. If Caribou is in Onigashima, his swamp storage space would be a good way to deal with the explosives. It would allow Luffy and Co. to reuse the explosives at a later time when needed against the Marines/CP-0.

@electricmastro:

Ah, the basement is near the entrance?

Based on the bridge on the right side of the panel, the lamp on the left side, and the ornament-thingy towering in the background, I presume the Heart Pirates and Yamato are near the entrance of the Onigashima Skull Dome.

We know that an entrance to the basement exist on the rear side of Onigashima but the area Yamato is in does not look like the rear side. Another basement entrance could be near the front entrance or somewhere around there.

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Updated table:

! | | Status | Last Known Location | Floor |
| Straw Hat Pirates | | | |
| Luffy | Active | Onigashima - roof | Rooftop |
| Zoro | Active | Onigashima - outer | Outside |
| Nami | Active | Onigashima - inner | Floor 2 |
| Usopp | Active | Onigashima - inner | Floor 2 |
| Sanji | Active | Onigashima - inner | Performance Floor |
| Chopper | Active | Onigashima - inner | Performance Floor |
| Robin | Active | Onigashima - inner | Floor 3 |
| Franky | Active | Onigashima - inner | Right Brain Tower |
| Brook | Active | Onigashima - inner | Floor 3 |
| Jinbe | Active | Onigashima - inner | Floor 4 |
| | | | |
| Other | | | |
| Yamato | Active | Onigashima - outer | On route to entrance |
| Tama | Active | Onigashima - inner | Floor 2 |
| Speed | Active | Onigashima - inner | Floor 2 |
| Caribou | Active | Udon - Tokage Port? | |
| | | | |
| Heart Pirates | | | |
| Law | Active | Onigashima - inner | Floor 2 |
| Bepo | Active | Onigashima - inner | Right Brain Tower |
| Shachi | Active | Onigashima - inner | Right Brain Tower |
| Penguin | Active | Onigashima - inner | Right Brain Tower |
| Jean Bart | Active | Onigashima - outer | On route to entrance |
| Clione | Active | Onigashima - outer | On route to entrance |
| Ikkaku | Active | Onigashima - outer | On route to entrance |
| Uni | Active | Onigashima - outer | On route to entrance |
| Others | Active | Onigashima - outer | On route to entrance |
| | | | |
| Kid Pirates | | | |
| Kid | Active | Onigashima - inner | Floor 2 |
| Killer | Active | Onigashima - inner | Floor 3 |
| Heat | Active | Onigashima - inner | Floor 4 |
| Wire | Active | Onigashima - inner | Floor 4 |
| | | | |
| Whitebeard Pirates | | | |
| Marco | Active | Onigashima - inner | Performance Floor |
| Izo | Active | Onigashima - inner | Performance Floor |
| | | | |
| SWORD | | | |
| X Drake | Active | Onigashima - inner | Performance Floor? |
| | | | |
| Beast Pirates | | | |
| Kaido | Active | Onigashima - roof | Rooftop |
| King | Active | Onigashima - outer | Outside |
| Queen | Active | Onigashima - inner | Performance Floor |
| Jack | Defeated | Onigashima - inner | Floor 2 - Treasure Repository |
| Page One | Defeated | Onigashima - inner | Floor 2 |
| Ulti | Defeated | Onigashima - inner | Floor 2 |
| Who's Who | Defeated | Onigashima - inner | Floor 4 |
| Black Maria | Defeated | Onigashima - inner | Floor 3 - Banquet Hall |
| Sasaki | Defeated | Onigashima - inner | Right Brain Tower |
| Bao Huang | Defeated | Onigashima - inner | Floor 2 |
| Headliners | Active | Onigashima - inner | |
| Gifters | Active | Onigashima - inner | |
| Pleasures | Active | Onigashima - inner | |
| Waiters | Active | Onigashima - inner | |
| Numbers | | | |
| #1 | Active | Onigashima | ?? |
| #2 | Active | Onigashima | ?? |
| #3 | Active | Onigashima | ?? |
| Jaki | Defeated | Onigashima - inner | Dropped by Hatcha on route to Right Brain Tower |
| Goki | Defeated | Onigashima - inner | Performance Floor |
| #6 | Active | Onigashima | ?? |
| Nangi | Defeated | Onigashima - inner | Rooftop |
| Hatcha | Defeated | Onigashima - inner | Right Brain Tower, Center Hallway |
| Kunyun | Defeated | Onigashima - inner | Floor 3 - Banquet Hall |
| Juki | Defeated | Onigashima - inner | Performance Floor |
| | | | |
| Big Mom Pirates | | | |
| Linlin | Active | Onigashima - inner | Floor 2 |
| Perospero | Defeated | Onigashima - outer | Front Entrance |
| | | | |
| Cipher Pol Aigis Zero | | | |
| Agent #1 | Active | Onigashima - inner | Guest Parlor (Floor 2) |
| Agent #2 | Active | Onigashima - inner | Guest Parlor (Floor 2) |
| Agent #3 | Active | Onigashima - inner | Guest Parlor (Floor 2) |
| | | | |
| Hawkins Pirates | | | |
| Hawkins | Active | Onigashima - inner | Floor 3 |
| | | | |
| On Air Pirates | | | |
| Scratchmen Apoo | Active | Onigashima - inner | Performance Floor? |
| | | | |
| Kozuki Family | | | |
| Momonosuke | Active | Onigashima - outer | Under Onigashima |
| Hiyori | Active | Onigashima - inner | ?? |
| | | | |
| Akazaya Samurai | | | |
| Kin'emon | Defeated | Onigashima - inner | Floor 1 - Crawl Space |
| Denjiro | Active | Onigashima - inner | ?? |
| Kikunojo | Defeated | Onigashima - inner | Floor 1 - Crawl Space |
| Raizo | Active | Onigashima - inner | Floor 3 |
| Ashura Doji | Defeated | Onigashima - inner | Floor 2 - Treasure Repository |
| Kawamatsu | Active | Onigashima - inner | Performance Floor |
| Shinobu | Active | Udon - Tokage Port | |
| | | | |
| Mink | | | |
| Inuarashi | Active | Onigashima - inner | Floor 2 - Treasure Repository |
| Nekomamushi | Active | Onigashima - outer | Front Entrance |
| Wanda | Active | Onigashima - outer | Front Entrance |
| Carrot | Active | Onigashima - outer | Front Entrance |
| Shishilian | Active | Onigashima - outer | Front Entrance |
| Concelot | Active | Onigashima - inner | |
| Giovanni | Active | Onigashima - inner | |
| Bariete | Active | Onigashima - outer? | Front Entrance? |
| Roddy | Active | Onigashima - inner | |
| Blackback | Active | Onigashima - inner | |
| Tristan | Active | Onigashima - inner | Performance Floor |
| Miyagi | Active | Onigashima - inner | Performance Floor |
| Other | Active | ?? | |
| | | | |
| Shimotsuki Family | | | |
| Toko | Active | Flower Capital | |
| Onimaru | Active | ?? | |
| | | | |
| Yakuza | | | |
| Hyogoro | Active | Onigashima - inner | Performance Floor |
| Omasa | Active | Onigashima - inner | Performance Floor |
| Tsunagoro | Active | Onigashima - inner | Performance Floor |
| Cho | Active | Onigashima - inner | Performance Floor |
| Yatappe | Active | Onigashima - inner | Performance Floor |
| | | | |
| Kyoshiro Family | Active | Onigashima - inner | |
| | | | |
| Kurozumi Family | | | |
| Orochi | Active | Onigashima - inner | Floor 2 - Treasure Repository |
| Kanjuro | Defeated | Onigashima - inner | Floor 1 - Crawl Space |
| | | | |
| Orochi Oniwabanshu | | | |
| Fukurokuju | Active | Onigashima - inner | Floor 3 |
| Daikoku | Defeated | Onigashima - inner | Performance Floor |
| Kazekage | Defeated | Onigashima - inner | Performance Floor |
| Fujin | Defeated | Forest outside Flower Capital | |
| Raijin | ?? | ?? | |
| Hanzo | ?? | Onigashima - inner | Performance Floor |
| Chome | ?? | Onigashima - inner | Performance Floor |
| Jogoku Benten | ?? | Onigashima - inner | Performance Floor |
| Bishamon | ?? | Onigashima - inner | Performance Floor |
| Yazaemon | ?? | Onigashima | |
| Sarutobi | ?? | Onigashima | |
| | | | |
| Mimawarigumi | Defeated | Onigashima - inner | Performance Floor |
| | | | |
| Kuri Citizens | | | |
| Hitetsu | Active | Flower Capital | |
| Tsurujo | ?? | Okobore Town | |
| | | | |

K. Kira XXIII

This post ended up being longer than I had anticipated.

General thoughts:

There will be 11 members in the crew.
There will be characters such as: Cavendish, Barto, Pedro that will be focused on. However, they will become fleet members.
The fleet’s total number will be 8000 as per Usopp’s lie.
To distinguish between: Straw Hat pirate, Fleet member and regular ally, Luffy’s vivre card will be distributed to fleet captains. Example: Zoro, Bartolomeo and King Riku.

Stance before Wano:

No new member besides Jimbe will join during this arc
New member will be a new character that we will meet after Wano (next island/Roadstar)
The current saga is Luffy’s rise to notoriety as a “great pirate” a.k.a his meeting with Shanks. A great pirate could also be seen as an emperor.

Therefore, the current saga sees Luffy gaining a fleet and territories. Something that started on Fishman Island, and later on in Dressrosa.

Random characteristics I suggested for the next member:

Waiting for Luffy and his crew. The idea spawned from Im watching Luffy’s bounty poster. I imagined the new member at the edge of their island waiting for the Sunny to reach its shores.
Completely new. Not a previously introduced character. Example: Boa, Vivi, etc.
Connected to the deeper lore of One Piece. Even though there is no issue with late additions from my perspective. The character having said connection to the Void Century makes it easier to settle in the grand scheme of things.
Potentially a third eye tribe member, or any of the “extinct” races of One Piece. Again for lore related reasons, Oda then can organically present us with info dumps through this character.

Current stance: I will talk a bit about the characters most people talk about.

Tama:
A friend pointed out that Tama has not expressed interest in sailing with Luffy. It is assumed that Luffy will inherit Ace’s promise, others suggest that Luffy will just take her now and fulfill it. Because of how young she is, I had a hard time believing Luffy would accept taking her with them.

Luffy inheriting Ace’s promise to Tama is probably the easiest outcome in terms of what next for her character. Not that staying in Wano will be easy for her. She is still an orphan who barely makes enough money. Unless she gets adopted, she will have a hard time.

Another alternative would be coming as a guest. Back when Shinobu’s power was presented, I mentioned that Tama could be aged with her power. That she could get the idea from Momo asking Shinobu the same thing. With Momo aging, now it is just a matter of time to see what Tama does moving forward.

Some points on aging Tama.

I don’t think it is necessary, she has proven to be strong and brave for her age.
Aging her anything younger than a granny would be weird.
The idea is that Tama’s greed backfires and she would become a guest on the Sunny as they search for Bonney to age her back.

To summarise: I don’t think Tama will be a new crew member. I think she has a great bond building up with Luffy and the rest of the crew. And I know she survived a beating from Kaido, so what does this 8 year old have to fear? Raizo can provide her with scrolls to transport her companions. I just don’t think Shinobu should succeed twice doing this feat because when the power was introduced they said: “usually Shinobu just rots everything she touches”.

Carrot:
It’s been kinda weird, to be honest had people not posted so much about her, I wouldn’t even consider her at all. However, I did try to see what else could there be for Carrot. And I see pieces where she can take on Pedro's will through the Nox pirates, and become a captain herself. I was especially thinking that because I kept reading: “can’t you see what’s going on? The pieces have been set, they will be developed in Wano.”[/hide][hide]

And…Wano came, and those pieces were barely focused on. As I had guessed, at one point the entire Mink army was down while Carrot was up, maybe her interest in the dawn could make her take more of a leadership position. That did not happen. I had been expecting her to mature more.

So currently, at best, I think Carrot may become an explorer, so she can grow and further mature for the upcoming final war. Otherwise, they can also replace Pedro by Cat’s side. I do think because she has bonded further with the crew than other minks there is a high chance she gets Luffy’s vivre card.

Yamato:
With the focus the character currently has, it is obvious the character is set to be an important one moving forward. Yamato themselves tick many of the random checkboxes I had before entering Wano. New/out of the blue, from an ancient race, even waiting for Luffy and to top it off, knowing Luffy’s secret dream. I feel, I should jump on the train. But for the sake of argument what other options does Yamato have?

Under the premise of: I will sail with Luffy. At the very minimum, Yamato is getting a piece of Luffy’s vivre card and potentially be one of the “heads” of the Straw Hat fleet.

Added onto that, Yamato may even share a sake cup the same way Luffy, Ace and Sabo did. They would become siblings! After Wano, Luffy and Yamato may even visit Ace’s grave and drink sake in front, adding a 4th cup to the three already there. If you think of Yamato as becoming a new sibling for Luffy, then a lot of the chapters used to argue for joining can be seen in another light. “The sake cup I waited…”

Deicide

@Syphin:

With Bepo, Shachi and Penguin what chapter were they shown to be together with Franky?

Chapter 1024, when we get the update on the SH's situations, Franky is with Bepo and the others.

electricmastro

@K.:

Yamato:
With the focus the character currently has, it is obvious the character is set to be an important one moving forward. Yamato themselves tick many of the random checkboxes I had before entering Wano. New/out of the blue, from an ancient race, even waiting for Luffy and to top it off, knowing Luffy’s secret dream. I feel, I should jump on the train. But for the sake of argument what other options does Yamato have?

Under the premise of: I will sail with Luffy. At the very minimum, Yamato is getting a piece of Luffy’s vivre card and potentially be one of the “heads” of the Straw Hat fleet.

Added onto that, Yamato may even share a sake cup the same way Luffy, Ace and Sabo did. They would become siblings! After Wano, Luffy and Yamato may even visit Ace’s grave and drink sake in front, adding a 4th cup to the three already there. If you think of Yamato as becoming a new sibling for Luffy, then a lot of the chapters used to argue for joining can be seen in another light. “The sake cup I waited…”

The biggest thing I feel is missing in regards to Yamato joining is clarification is what and how she would contribute in forwarding towards Luffy's story and the story overall. She hasn't really demonstrated any skills or abilities beyond fighting, and this combined with the idea of soldiers tending to defend something like their country or something they care about in general may fall into that, in addition to her guardian theme.

Syphin

@Deicide:

Chapter 1024, when we get the update on the SH's situations, Franky is with Bepo and the others.

Thank you!

Hah, after reading that chapter again, I remember that dialogue from Bepo!

I have updated my earlier post.

I wonder if Oda is even entertaining the idea of Bepo ever going Sulong. I would like to see a raging Were-Polar Bear unleash. It would also help elevate Law's crew from average to something a bit more spectacular.

Zik

@K.:

Yamato:
With the focus the character currently has, it is obvious the character is set to be an important one moving forward. Yamato themselves tick many of the random checkboxes I had before entering Wano. New/out of the blue, from an ancient race, even waiting for Luffy and to top it off, knowing Luffy’s secret dream. I feel, I should jump on the train. But for the sake of argument what other options does Yamato have?

Under the premise of: I will sail with Luffy. At the very minimum, Yamato is getting a piece of Luffy’s vivre card and potentially be one of the “heads” of the Straw Hat fleet.

Added onto that, Yamato may even share a sake cup the same way Luffy, Ace and Sabo did. They would become siblings! After Wano, Luffy and Yamato may even visit Ace’s grave and drink sake in front, adding a 4th cup to the three already there. If you think of Yamato as becoming a new sibling for Luffy, then a lot of the chapters used to argue for joining can be seen in another light. “The sake cup I waited…”

The exchanging of sake cups and becoming siblings usually comes after close deep bonds. Ace, Sabo, and Luffy spent a great deal pf their childhood together and ended up saving each other.

As of right now, Yamato and Luffy would have to spend a lot more time together. A character put in the position to possibly be Luffy's sibling when he's already grown up would've at least would've had to be side by side with him like from Saboady to Amazon Lily to Impel Down to Marineford back to Amazon Lily and then back to Saboady after two years.

The role Yamato is in right now really only fits next crewmate, long term ally, or reoccurring ally that shows up later. Becoming a sibling is a bigger deal than crewmate. Luffy doesn't just offer that up.

I will say I too considered something around that area when I saw Yamato opposite Ace on the vol. 100 cover thinking of what it could mean or where that placement might point too but as of now it doesn't make sense given what Oda has done with the character so far to reach that conclusion. Oda's done a lot more early with Yamato that he didn't do with Ace. Technically Ace still didn't really get a deep focus and focused flashback. The Rogue story he was an infant, the Sabo flashback is shared with Luffy, and a lot simply wasn't fleshed out with his issues with Roger nor was there much bonding with his adoptive grandfather. Yamato is being handled differently.

Before the raid started Luffy said they'd do the sake thing and officially welcome Jimbe in a big party celebrating the alliance and raid being successful. Chapters 999 to 1000 laid out that Yamato was waiting for him in the title. Its Yamato talking directly to Luffy. Points to more admiration that's currently one sided that doesn't lean to a potential familial bond forming.

Rean

@K.:

The guardian deity of Wano works in any way you want. We are repeatedly told that Wano needs their borders open and that this is crucial to Joy Boy's return. Having the guardian deity of that country with the future pirate king works with those objectives.

Having their guardian start protecting someone else can also work to tell the people of Wano: "this person is important, we should support them".

The fact is, without the DF, Yamato has less of a connection to Wano. They wouldn't be able to represent a Wano affiliation connected to Joy Boy's plan and all that jazz.

One thing that kinda confused me about the Wano guardian deity concept is that almost all prior references to that concept were in the form of the Wisdom King, or a Myōō, which was compared to Luffy (via Hyo thinking that Luffy's 4th gear form looks exactly like a Myōō_)_, and Oden (as seen in the Fire Festival celebrations in ch 993, see the spoilered image).

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So it's very confusing to me that Kaido thinks of the DF that Yamato ate as representative of the Wano guardian deity (and that ppl are basing theories around this idea of his), when we've been shown no such thing. I'm thinking that it's a way for Oda to further showcase how utterly out of touch Kaido is with the people of Wano (which is expected of the head of an occupying force, as opposed to the rightful ruler of Wano), even if he is reasonably familiar with their culture.

flandrian15

@Vongola_Boss_XI:

I do not agree that the final battle will be against Blackbeard or Akainu. Particularly Blackbeard. At least Akainu is allied with the World Government, the main antagonists of the series.

Have to agree on this. Blackbeard I feel is more like another contender for the spot of Pirate King but, as far as we know at least, Blackbeard is not actively busy with trying everything in his power to keep the erased history hidden from the world and exactly that plot point is the thing that will come into play once Luffy is the pirate king and learns what he learns about this history on Laugh Tale. It is the WG that is preventing people from finding out the true history and this will be the main reason for the final war.

vlad Dracul

@electricmastro:

[…] She hasn't really demonstrated any skills or abilities beyond fighting, […]

tbh does zoro have any skills? yamato could just be luffy‘s bodyguard so he does not have to fight scrubs

flandrian15

@vlad:

tbh does zoro have any skills? yamato could just be luffy‘s bodyguard so he does not have to fight scrubs

If your definition of a bodyguard is that this function should prevent Luffy from having to fight scrubs, how is that any different from literally anyone else on the crew? Luffy didn't have to fight Kaku because Zoro did, Luffy didn't have to fight Mr. 2 because Sanji did, Luffy didn't have to fight CP9 bubble woman because Nami did, Luffy didn't have to fight Sasaki because Jimbe did, Luffy didn't have to fight Black Maria because Robin did, …

vlad Dracul

fine i drop the bodyguard part, and replace it with „another fighter“ ala burgess
i admit my first thought was just to be a more clingy towards luffy but that’s probably wa~~ay too lame

Roosta

@Rean:

One thing that kinda confused me about the Wano guardian deity concept is that almost all prior references to that concept were in the form of the Wisdom King, or a Myōō, which was compared to Luffy (via Hyo thinking that Luffy's 4th gear form looks exactly like a Myōō_)_, and Oden (as seen in the Fire Festival celebrations in ch 993, see the spoilered image).

Kaido is also referred to as a protecting Myōō (守る「明王」)… but there are references to 守り神 before Makami, such as Yasuie talking about what the Scabbards want to become in Chapter 963. I too wonder if this difference is significant.

@Rean:

So it's very confusing to me that Kaido thinks of the DF that Yamato ate as representative of the Wano guardian deity (and that ppl are basing theories around this idea of his), when we've been shown no such thing. I'm thinking that it's a way for Oda to further showcase how utterly out of touch Kaido is with the people of Wano (which is expected of the head of an occupying force, as opposed to the rightful ruler of Wano), even if he is reasonably familiar with their culture.

I also have a lot of questions about this line. It seems to open a ton of questions, such as:

Why does Kaido care about what the DF is, let alone go out of his way to get the fruit? His plan is to enslave the whole country, so why does it matter whether the shogun has a symbolic DF?
Does anyone who eats the fruit is automatically a guardian?
It's speculated that DFs are artificially created, so how was a guardian deity of Wano created?
Are there other guardian deity DF's? Hyogoro said that Gear Fourth Luffy "looks like" a guardian deity, but he looked like Sengoku's Buddha, is that a guardian deity DF?

People take the line at face value and jump to discuss what it means for Yamato's character arc. In that sense, he's doing a great job of being a red herring.

Robby

@flandrian15:

If your definition of a bodyguard is that this function should prevent Luffy from having to fight scrubs, how is that any different from literally anyone else on the crew? Luffy didn't have to fight Kaku because Zoro did, Luffy didn't have to fight Mr. 2 because Sanji did, Luffy didn't have to fight CP9 bubble woman because Nami did, Luffy didn't have to fight Sasaki because Jimbe did, Luffy didn't have to fight Black Maria because Robin did, …

This arc actually made a pretty focused point about "Luffy, don't waste your energy on these little guys, save it for Kaidou" with Zoro, Sanji, AND Jinbe running along with him to tank obstacles. Or how the Samurai keep getting slaughtered as soon as help leaves the room. Or how most of the crew did okay with their 1 on 1's, but had trouble when there are what would otherwise be fodder minions on the side to mess with them.

I'm not personally a fan of "bodyguard" as a role, but it IS getting reiterated over and over this arc that the fighters need support.

Jabra

@Roosta:

I also have a lot of questions about this line. It seems to open a ton of questions, such as:

Why does Kaido care about what the DF is, let alone go out of his way to get the fruit? His plan is to enslave the whole country, so why does it matter whether the shogun has a symbolic DF?

Does anyone who eats the fruit is automatically a guardian?

It's speculated that DFs are artificially created, so how was a guardian deity of Wano created?

Are there other guardian deity DF's? Hyogoro said that Gear Fourth Luffy "looks like" a guardian deity, but he looked like Sengoku's Buddha, is that a guardian deity DF?

People take the line at face value and jump to discuss what it means for Yamato's character arc. In that sense, he's doing a great job of being a red herring.

I didn't understand that line either, but a good argument I've heard back then was that the Wanoese are superstitious dolts. The idea is that the revered guardian deity of Wano would make it easier to control the populace, just like Kaido used the legitimacy of Orochi for over 20 years to keep things in order.

Kaido needs the Wanoese to obey to a certain degree, and forcing them to work in the factories through threats of violence might not yield good results. Like, thousands of them already threw their lifes away during the sunatchi-raid.

Now, what certainly doesn't add up is Kaido's intention to kill virtually everyone in the capital. Why does he need a revered mythical dog creature when there is no one left who could revere it?

But maybe the Guardian Deity-hoax was what he planned before he teamed up with Big Mom. Now it's all about turning Wano into a Pirate Paradise - which means he also doesn't need the Wanoese anymore?

Roosta

@Jabra:

But maybe the Guardian Deity-hoax was what he planned before he teamed up with Big Mom. Now it's all about turning Wano into a Pirate Paradise - which means he also doesn't need the Wanoese anymore?

He's still insisting on Yamato being Wano's guardian deity minutes before Onigashima will kill everyone in the Flower Capital, so it definitely doesn't quite add up. One other line that jumps out to me when thinking about this topic is this one from Chapter 965:

This would be the only other time that the power of the shogun was associated with a DF, so I wonder if Yamata no Orochi is in the same category as Okuchi no Makami as a guardian deity (守り神), and if there's something more substantial going on here.

The B-Mack

@Roosta:

Why does Kaido care about what the DF is, let alone go out of his way to get the fruit? His plan is to enslave the whole country, so why does it matter whether the shogun has a symbolic DF?

Maybe it was more about keeping the fruit so nobody else could use it? If the user inspires hope for the people as a guardian deity, crush their hope with no guardian and keep them subservient.

Roosta

@The:

Maybe it was more about keeping the fruit so nobody else could use it? If the user inspires hope for the people as a guardian deity, crush their hope with no guardian and keep them subservient.

Maybe, but Kaido's language implies that Yamato should be the shogun because he ate the ate the Okuchi no Makami fruit. If he was just worried about it inspiring hope, couldn't he keep Yamato locked up and make someone else the shogun?

FolhaS

I think Kaidou wants for Yamato to rule, as a guardian deity and symbol, so its easier to control the country.

Orochi was recognized as a shogun but hes a bad one, and as far as we know his devil fruit is a secret and Yamata no Orochi is seen as a bad creature in japanese folklore
If Yamato obeyd Kaidou he could replace Orochi, by being a better shogun and a symbol of the people.

Kaidou really doesnt care about the wanonese, but because of that, he has no plan to make the citizens suffer, he just wants to make weapons.
It was Orochi whom hated the people of the country and made sure they suffered at every opportunity.

I think that if Yamato had played ball Kaidou wouldve killed Orochi uears ago and replaced him with a better figure head, because not only did he need the citizens to build weapons he also wants the island for something else relating to the endgame of the series.
He needs someone to focus on managing that part while hes busy being an old school pirate, geting drunk and killing whomever. He tried to off Orochi at the start of the festival because by now the wheels are in motion and Orochi had played his part long enough but after the dust settles Kaidou would still need to pick someone to oversee the island.

electricmastro

@Robby:

This arc actually made a pretty focused point about "Luffy, don't waste your energy on these little guys, save it for Kaidou" with Zoro, Sanji, AND Jinbe running along with him to tank obstacles. Or how the Samurai keep getting slaughtered as soon as help leaves the room. Or how most of the crew did okay with their 1 on 1's, but had trouble when there are what would otherwise be fodder minions on the side to mess with them.

I'm not personally a fan of "bodyguard" as a role, but it IS getting reiterated over and over this arc that the fighters need support.

After Yamato fended off Ulti for Luffy who was conserving energy, protecting Momo and Shinobu, held back Kaidou from hurting anyone else, the idea of soldiers defending something like their country, and the guardian theme of her fruit, I'd be surprised if her eventual role completely shrugged everything off of the such off. If nothing else, I'm sure it would be welcome after Nami and Usopp got headbutted by Ulti. Haha.

Kishido

M3 won't change. Not dynamic wise and not well… Who cares

Thanks for your attention

Roosta

@FolhaS:

I think Kaidou wants for Yamato to rule, as a guardian deity and symbol, so its easier to control the country.

Orochi was recognized as a shogun but hes a bad one, and as far as we know his devil fruit is a secret and Yamata no Orochi is seen as a bad creature in japanese folklore
If Yamato obeyd Kaidou he could replace Orochi, by being a better shogun and a symbol of the people.

Kaidou really doesnt care about the wanonese, but because of that, he has no plan to make the citizens suffer, he just wants to make weapons.
It was Orochi whom hated the people of the country and made sure they suffered at every opportunity.

I think that if Yamato had played ball Kaidou wouldve killed Orochi uears ago and replaced him with a better figure head, because not only did he need the citizens to build weapons he also wants the island for something else relating to the endgame of the series.
He needs someone to focus on managing that part while hes busy being an old school pirate, geting drunk and killing whomever. He tried to off Orochi at the start of the festival because by now the wheels are in motion and Orochi had played his part long enough but after the dust settles Kaidou would still need to pick someone to oversee the island.

I appreciate your answer my (probably unanswerable ATM) questions, but there are a few things that still trouble me about this explanation:

Even if it's bad, Yamata no Orochi was presented with "the power to make you shogun". Mythical devil fruits are extremely rare in the OP world, and thus far the only thing this fruit has done has been to give multiple people a chance to behead Orochi.
Kaido intends to control Wano with force. He very explicitly says that Yamato says he has the ability to control people, who are afraid of him, with strength. His whole thing is forcing people into submission to obey him. The need for a symbolic guardian spirit devil fruit power to make people accept a leader is inconsistent with everything he's done and said.
Yamato has been totally out of control for 20 years, while Orochi has obediently manipulated Wano for 20 years. Why would Kaido insist on the one he has completely failed to control being the one he leaves the country to while he's gone?

To be honest, I don't think we can answer these questions with the information we have available, but it's frustrating that it becomes "what does being a guardian deity mean for Yamato?" instead of "what does being being a guardian deity mean?". Then again, this is a next Strawhat thread, so maybe I'm complaining in the wrong place

Zik

@Roosta:

I appreciate your answer my (probably unanswerable ATM) questions, but there are a few things that still trouble me about this explanation:

Even if it's bad, Yamata no Orochi was presented with "the power to make you shogun". Mythical devil fruits are extremely rare in the OP world, and thus far the only thing this fruit has done has been to give multiple people a chance to behead Orochi

This is not true.

electricmastro

@vlad:

tbh does zoro have any skills? yamato could just be luffy‘s bodyguard so he does not have to fight scrubs

Well aside from specifically with swordsmanship, he's pretty good at tactics. Not necessarily coming up with plans and strategies ahead of time. but coming up with them in the middle of the heated moment.

Roosta

@Zik:

This is not true.

How so? Orochi hasn't participated in any fights, and he has been beheaded 7(?) times. I suppose you could say he used the power to threaten Hiyori and CP0, but how is that something that requires a Mythical DF?

FolhaS

@Roosta:

I appreciate your answer my (probably unanswerable ATM) questions, but there are a few things that still trouble me about this explanation:

Even if it's bad, Yamata no Orochi was presented with "the power to make you shogun". Mythical devil fruits are extremely rare in the OP world, and thus far the only thing this fruit has done has been to give multiple people a chance to behead Orochi.

Kaido intends to control Wano with force. He very explicitly says that Yamato says he has the ability to control people, who are afraid of him, with strength. His whole thing is forcing people into submission to obey him. The need for a symbolic guardian spirit devil fruit power to make people accept a leader is inconsistent with everything he's done and said.

Yamato has been totally out of control for 20 years, while Orochi has obediently manipulated Wano for 20 years. Why would Kaido insist on the one he has completely failed to control being the one he leaves the country to while he's gone?

To be honest, I don't think we can answer these questions with the information we have available, but it's frustrating that it becomes "what does being a guardian deity mean for Yamato?" instead of "what does being being a guardian deity mean?". Then again, this is a next Strawhat thread, so maybe I'm complaining in the wrong place

I was getting insterested in the discussion, might as well jump in.

The part about the only power Orochi has is to be decapitated several times got me in stiches, for real, but I think overall such devil fruit is very powerfull. Sure we're seeing a bad guy who used to focus on lying and cheating, he didn't train on how to use his df better nor did he even train to get himself stronger. On some other island or sea just having the df would be enough but here it looks weak by comparission.

To me Kaidou's and Orochi's relationship was very uneven.
Orochi thought that he and Kaidou were partners, and altough he found Kaidou scary he felt like he still had some leverage. But Kaidou couldn't give two shits about Orochi himself, he wanted Wano, he wanted weapons, and Orochi could give him that without him raiding the country and enslaving all those people himself. Orochi was a great tool to achieve his goals, but the only great ruler of Wano Kaidou seems to have ever recognized was Oden, because he was strong enough to face in battle despite being ridiculed while dancing on the street.

And Yamato was supposed to get on with the plan.
Grow up to be the strong descendent of Kaidou, and a symbol of Wano, and rule almighty. But Yamato spent his life telling his father that he was a mean sack of shit and that Wano should be free. Kaidou's plan was to beat Yams into submission, either physically or mentaly, but it never worked and he still yaps on about it. "You should be the ruler and figure-head and be strong, and serve me!"
Kaidou is still protective of his stuff and his favorite soldiers, like when he told Jack to stand down since he fought hard enough already. I imagine that's how he expected Yamato to be, be the strongest, pick the second/third/etc strongest for the crew inner circle, and then have a bunch of mooks to order around.

KageKageKing

Damn, we reached 500 pages. It took like whatm a year?