Well at least in this one he doesn't have another option plus he's betting on the problem of using the public to force Kaido and Orochi to not walk back on their word.
If anything it seems weirdly crafty for someone that would stand by such a moronic deal for 5 years.
Also:
"We have a shapeshifter working for us."
"Nah, that's ok, won't even consider doing any precautions over next 5 years."
Oden still is naive:
5yrs ago: "once you built your ships, you leave Wano?"
"Sure. We promise!"
Now:"If any endures one hour in the pot, his life is spared?"
"Sure. We promise!"Still, it is a badass feat Oden did in that chapter.
And now I'm even more lookin forward for Kaidou's and Orochi's ass to be kicked.
I really don't know what you expected Oden to do here when he's borderline defenseless compared to Kaido without his weapons.
Also:
"We have a shapeshifter working for us.""Nah, that's ok, won't even consider doing any precautions over next 5 years."
I mean it's not like he planned to rebel or doing anything in secret. Dude was just planning to ride those 5 years. An imposter spying on him wasn't a concern for his goal of inaction/compliance.
I mean it's not like he planned to rebel or doing anything in secret. Dude was just planning to ride those 5 years. An imposter spying on him wasn't a concern for his goal of inaction/compliance.
The problem is he didn't plan anything at all. The problem is Oda simplified things way too much in this flashback when it comes to Oden and his buddies.
Why didn't he secretly prepare both his own group and people of Wano for when Orochi screws him over? Is this the same person who turned a bandit ridden wasteland into a prosperous and peaceful region?
Not buying that Kaido will really let Oden and the Scabbards go free if Oden survives the hour, given what he did in the last chapter.
I actually believe Kaido would honor his promise. Oden wouldn't survive that boiling oil though, but the scabbards will be freed after.
Some long-term predictions: Vegapunk with Paw-Paw fruit for Nakama!!! Kaidou is gonna be killed by Blackbeard and get his strongest Zoan DF!!!
Ugh. That was so ass-backwards on so many levels it's unbelievable. I get that Oden is the kind of guy who wouldn't want anyone to have to die for his sake but that's sort of a selfish way of thinking things when you consider that it's the country they'd ultimately be fighting and dying for, and not just their loyalty to him. For the sake of their fellow countrymen and the future generations to come, surely them laying down their lives to overthrow Orochi and Kaido, following Oden's lead and acting immediately to minimize casualties, there's no way that could have even crossed his mind as a necessary evil? You can't even argue that it's a "they're getting to live, that's all that matters" since so many are dying of starvation or other ailments caused by Orochi and Kaido's dominion, so all Oden's decision did was prolong the suffering and ensure that when the straw that broke the camel's back finally emerged, they had that much less chance of victory, and earned their humiliating and very deserved fate. It's like what happened when France and the UK decided not to do anything about the Third Reich before finally declaring war; pay now or pay later. They decided to pay later, and look how that turned out as opposed to trying to halt the advance of the Axis before they became any more powerful. You'd think someone from a former Axis power would appreciate the irony of that in his own storytelling, but no, Oden condemned Wano in that stupid way.
Not only that, but what exact assurance did Oden have that Orochi and Kaido weren't just going to go behind his back and do more kidnappings and secret murders while Oden is distracted with his idiotic dancing? And did Oden have no idea at all what was going to be going on in the absence of his enforcing justice anyway, with the stockpiling of weapons and marshaling of Kaido's troops to tighten their stranglehold on Wano? Literally zero advantage to doing what he decided except that rather than witnessing the immediate execution of a handful of citizens, he gets to maybe hear about news of untold thousands dying more slowly in poverty, disease and malnutrition. Then, just as a fucking cherry on top, Orochi thumbs his nose at Oden after all, though it took him long enough, but he showed remarkable restraint in waiting for Oden to have annihilated his own reputation first. Even the thing he set out to do, keep innocent people from being cut down in the street, failed miserably. That should have cost him the loyalty of his followers. For crying out loud, what possible harm could there have been in at least informing them of the situation, getting their opinion, discussing it as a group, coming up with a decision, and then saying if they respected his authority then they'd capitulate to his choice or if they did not agree, to leave Wano? Then the ones who could not just stand idly by while their idiot boss did the stupidest possible thing would be forced to go live elsewhere and not have anything more to do with it if they could not see fit to serve either of the two houses in control.
Most of what you said didn't happen and was addressed in this chapter by Shinobu.
The problem is he didn't plan anything at all. The problem is Oda simplified things way too much in this flashback when it comes to Oden and his buddies.
Why didn't he secretly prepare both his own group and people of Wano for when Orochi screws him over? Is this the same person who turned a bandit ridden wasteland into a prosperous and peaceful region?
He considered the deal a real thing and played straight thinking both parties would stand by it. He just that much of a naive person according to what the last chapters are telling us.
As for the region he pacified. It's not like he made a plan or was crafty. He went there one day and beat the shit out of everyone that was a problem.
I actually believe Kaido would honor his promise. Oden wouldn't survive that boiling oil though, but the scabbards will be freed after.
I believe he'll let them go according to his word. But then once the exact words of the deal have been fulfilled he'll go after them. He seems like a Barbossa type guy who'd entangle you in the fine print of your deal
Well, Oden is playing him with wording, so it seems appropriate.
We still have to go from this to 'half the scabbards meet Toki and the kids while the castle burns'.
Oden still is naive:
5yrs ago: "once you built your ships, you leave Wano?"
"Sure. We promise!"
Now:"If any endures one hour in the pot, his life is spared?"
"Sure. We promise!"Still, it is a badass feat Oden did in that chapter.
And now I'm even more lookin forward for Kaidou's and Orochi's ass to be kicked.
Thing is, despite Orochi's treachery and the fact that Kaido is a pirate, both of them gave Oden a reason to have faith in their promise to leave Wano - they kept their word of releasing kidnapped people and stopped kidnapping people for as long as Oden did his part of the deal and that is to dance weekly in the capital. Best believe that if something bad happened within those five years, Oden would've immediately lead an uprising just as he did when Hyogorou was captured and his wife and men killed.
As for the deal with Kaido in this chapter, Oden's literally left with no choice. He's banking on that little ray of hope to somehow survive the punishment.
I believe he'll let them go according to his word. But then once the exact words of the deal have been fulfilled he'll go after them. He seems like a Barbossa type guy who'd entangle you in the fine print of your deal
I expect between the 45-59 minutes mark either Oden will falter, Orochi will shoot him with a dart to make him lose focus or Neko will propose to charge instead letting Oden finish boiling.
But I don't expect Oden to get to finish.
But I don't expect Oden to get to finish.
Orochi trying to interfere sounds like something he would do. I wouldn't mind a finish with extra serving of "died standing" à la Whitebeard, though.
He considered the deal a real thing and played straight thinking both parties would stand by it. He just that much of a naive person according to what the last chapters are telling us.
It's dumb and superficially written.
As for the region he pacified. It's not like he made a plan or was crafty. He went there one day and beat the shit out of everyone that was a problem.
It still took more than clobbering a couple of goons and calling it a day.
My issues with the chapter. Firstly, the delivery of the reveal felt very manipulative and even condescending. The last line doesnt sit well with me at all. My second problem is that the reveal came too early. The placement made sense considering how it was set up but i feel like not only was it not needed at this point in time (i get that it happened in order for the citizens to realize Oden's sacrifice) but it also kinda goes against Oden's character. He is a man of action who doesnt explain the reason he does things. He doesnt need to be hyped up, especially from Shinobu who hasnt really had a very strong bond with him. I personally wanted the reveal to come after his death. Third problem is that Oden's fall doesnt feel like much of a fall. He danced like an idiot in front of people, big deal. Yeah he's the heir of the shogun and needs to be the very image of honor, pride and courage but its not like this is the first time he's been looked down on by the Wanonese. You would assume a cunning, relentless bastard like Orochi would take the most out of Oden's self-sacrifice and completely destroy him, physically and psychologically. For example, Orochi could have easily made it a condition that Oden must accept every request he makes, as long as it only affects him and him only (basically making him his personal servant, exactly what he used to be). One of the requests would be to fight him every day in a 1 on 1 duel and lose on purpose. Personally, that would make me feel way more sympathy for Oden's fall.
Three problems i have with the chapter. First reason, the reveal of the reason Oden acted the way he acted felt very manipulative and even condescending. The last line doesnt sit well with me at all. My second problem is that the reveal was came oo early imo. The placement made sense considering how it was set up but i feel like it goes against Oden's character. Oden is a man of action who doesnt explain the reason he does things. He doesnt need to be hyped up, especially from Shinobu who hasnt really had a bond with him. I personally wanted the reveal to come after his death. Third problem is that Oden's fall doesnt feel like much of a fall. Ok he danced like an idiot in front of people, big deal. Yeah he's the heir of the shogun and needs to honorable but its not like he wasnt looked down on before he returned. You would assume a cunning bastard like Orochi would take the most out of Oden's self sacrifice and completely destroy him, physically and psychologically
Oden saved her life (previous chapter) so her becoming emotional is okay for me.
@Uncanny:
Oden saved her life (previous chapter) so her becoming emotional is okay for me.
Idk its a weird choice to me. At least i hope the scabbards didnt hear anything. I highly doubt it but i thought it would be great characterization if they followed Oden to death without knowing why he did what he did, to this day
Every chapter, increases my desire to see the chapter when that scumbag Orochi gets his just desserts.
Death is too good for him. He needs to suffer badly.
This is an interesting take on Orochi. I thought his expanded backstory actually made him more sympathetic(In that I don't want to see him get a brutal comeuppance).
Seriously, what Orochi is doing is really not that different from what other protagonists who seek vengence do. Especially in regards to handling the fodder members of the group/person they are seeking vengence against.
So to me, its interesting that Orochi seeking justifiable vengence against a country that has persecuted him for being born is somehow being viewed as a completely evil and irredeemable action.
Note: I know that most protagonists eventually grow out of their vengence seeking mindset, but that's usually because they meet people who help them through that.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
After reading the official translation and thinking about it, I actually don't think Oden's decision was wrong.
Think about it, Kaidou's dragon form has massive AOE damage, he can level wano to the ground in hours.
.
Oden had absolutely no way of knowing that because it was the first time he met Kaidou. So how would he know what range of abilities Kaidou has?
Also, I know it hasn't been confirmed, but I'm pretty sure Oden has the advanced form of haki Luffy is currently learning. And from what we saw in MarineFord, you can use it to guard against such attacks.
HOW COME LUFFY NEVER KILLS AN ENEMY?
ODA:ITS BECAUSE IN THAT ERA EVERYONE USES THEIR LIVES TO FIGHT FOR THEIR DREAMS. FOR AN ENEMY WHEN THEIR DREAM HAS BEEN SHATTERED,IT IS AS PAINFUL AS DEATH,I BELIEVE FOR A PIRATE NOT TO KILL AN ENEMY , IT'S GIVING THEM A SECOND CHANCE TO FIGHT FOR THEIR DREAMS.
Also i never get over how casually bloodthirsty the Wano population is, hoping for more crying and screaming and all, which i'm sure is pretty historically accurate but still a little disturbing
At this point there is only one humane solution for Wano, really.
! https://pm1.narvii.com/7234/04c4e41dd6436f599f273f334ce77b837a71be44r1-800-450v2_hq.jpg
The Wanonese had a damn good excuse to be as scummy as they are in the present day (and I thought the flashback would salvage that to some degree), but they are largely just awful people, past and present.
Don't think we can say they are scummy bloodthirsty people than ever before we have wathed. The story goes: they have had a big dissapointment about the "fool of a lord" they had, and are having hard times. They cannot but despises him. In the chapter, at the beggining we seen them not having time to lose with the execution, or enjoying it, next we see them speechless in front of Shinobus's explanation and at the end they are shocked to know about what Oden has been doing for them. That's what the panels tell.
Sure they are like most of the people of OP, living hard times, and wanting to be free of tyrany to get a better life.
Sure in nowadays an execution like this is intolerable. Don't have a clue about ancient Japan, but it resemblances guillotine French times or Roman Collyseum'. But the series invites us readers to imagine it like that many times before.
As for the traitor, I repost the idea that, being about to be boiled (which doesn't makes much sense if the traitor is working for you and you know who he is), the traitor must be unknows to Kaido and Orochi. Maybe they were just mailed anonimously. As roboblue suggested maybe he works for the WG. (It can't not be other person than one of the scabbars who traveled through time up to 20 years in the future, since nor Denjiro neither Ashura, for instance, knew about Raizo in Zou).
And then everything in the region fell back into place on its own.
In One Piece just having nice people makes things better. It's weird but it is what it is.
I guess the idea was that the thug were what made it unlivable and once they were tamed by Oden people could improve their way of life. Plus the retainers were really invested in making Oden look good so they do management.
This might be just a silly line but Orochi saying that he was not able to sleep due to him being afraid of being hunted - could it be that BB ended up in a similar state of fear throughout his childhood that he has become permanently scarred to not sleep at all? I know it sounds very random but considering we had that shown just few chapters back makes me think twice about such a similar statement coming up now. Are these lines similar in japanese too?
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Oden had absolutely no way of knowing that because it was the first time he met Kaidou. So how would he know what range of abilities Kaidou has?
Also, I know it hasn't been confirmed, but I'm pretty sure Oden has the advanced form of haki Luffy is currently learning. And from what we saw in MarineFord, you can use it to guard against such attacks.
Doesn't matter, he can sense Kaidou's strength. If the enemy's intention was to ruin Wano as much as possible, do you know what this mean? Entirety of Wano was hostage, not just the 100 person per week.
And if the enemy's goal is to wreck havoc, then with a war they win regardless of the outcome.
Oden knew all of this, and chose to avoid war to the best of his ability.
This is an interesting take on Orochi. I thought his expanded backstory actually made him more sympathetic(In that I don't want to see him get a brutal comeuppance).
Seriously, what Orochi is doing is really not that different from what other protagonists who seek vengence do. Especially in regards to handling the fodder members of the group/person they are seeking vengence against.
So to me, its interesting that Orochi seeking justifiable vengence against a country that has persecuted him for being born is somehow being viewed as a completely evil and irredeemable action.
Note: I know that most protagonists eventually grow out of their vengence seeking mindset, but that's usually because they meet people who help them through that.
I'd say the flashback has made me empathetic to Orochi's plight as a child, but he remains a wholly unsympathetic character. The difference between a protagonist seeking vengeance and what Orochi is doing here is that even when the protagonists beat up the goons of their enemy, they are still only attacking people who are openly and actively supporting what their boss has done/is doing. Orochi otoh is not attacking the people who chased him down or killed his family, he is taking it out on every single citizen of Wano. He's completely happy to torture and murder completely innocent people, including children, ultimately trying to genocide all of Wano simply because there are some major assholes living among the populace. When Luffy attacks Enies Lobby in order to save Robin, he may mercilessly beat up all the soldiers of the WG that stand in his way, but he doesn't afterwards go and slaughter each of their families, too.
Robin was treated pretty shitty during most of her life, but that wouldn't make it ok for her to revisit every island where someone treated her badly and murder the whole populace, either. Most of the people living in Wano didn't do shit to Orochi's family, yet they still have to suffer the consequences. Look at what innocent kids like Tama (basically slowly starving to death) or Toko (has to watch her Dad being murdered in front of her and isn't even able to grief him properly) had to go through because of Orochi's actions. Someone else (I think it was Medical Orbit) pointed out the irony in what Orochi is doing i.e. he's acting the same way that the people who murdered his family did, only on a much larger scale.
Unapologetic antagonist with no redemption>>>>>>>>>>
It seems a bit strange, but given the fact that the rest of the country was relatively stable and prosperous bringing a bit of order so that the small folk can begin to conduct business in a normal fashion will improve things faster than one might expect. As soon as Bob the Peasant knows that Ashura won't just roll in and take everything from him, Bob is free to openly farm enough extra potatoes to trade as opposed to having to spend time and energy hiding his potato so that Ashura doesn't just take everything.
Given that Oden was a royal scion he might have had enough education to pass one some things onto his new retainers.
It just occurred to me that a few chapters ago I asked why Orochi never had kids, and we got the answer in this chapter.
His decision to bring an end to Wano itself must also extend to the Kurozumi clan, who logically hold a large share in the responsibility for Orochi's misery.
It just occurred to me that a few chapters ago I asked why Orochi never had kids, and we got the answer in this chapter.
His decision to bring an end to Wano itself must also extend to the Kurozumi clan, who logically hold a large share in the responsibility for Orochi's misery.
I doubt that's how he sees it. When the hag asked him who was to blame he said it was Sukiyaki's fault for being born.
I believe there's some sort of motive shift from orochi's part.
In the beginning, he might have been planning to just make people of wano suffer, but twenty something years from that time, or current time, he's just normal dictator who loves being royal, spending time having fun, and may have forget his initial motive to destroy wano.
He has transform back to the kind of idiot that fully deserve luffy's punch in full force like that CD guy in Sabaody (roswald ?) had, with additional final blow from the son of former emperor himself.
Cant wait to see his big ugly face become even uglier.
Momo vs Orochi. Make it happen Oda i beg you
Momo + Toko + Tama vs Orochi better 
Slapping fight, Kyle vs. Cartman style.
Never a fan of these exposition dumps. This is weird since it's supposed to be a rallying cry…? I'm leaning more and more to wait out this entire thing instead of reading weekly.
You are on a quest to become the Pirate Prince, and you decide your fate!
Hey guys, I'm going to leave this "shot in the dark" prediction here. It has a pretty small chance of happening but there's one none the less. Maybe the person who has been forshadowed is not Luffy himself but someone who by chance or fate ended up sailing with him. Of all the Strawhats there are 2 distinct candidates. Who we really don't know their provenance.
let's start first with the ones we can rule out–> Robin, Franky, Ussop, Brook,Sanji, Chopper, Jimbei and even Luffy. The thing with them is that we kind of know all these characters lineage to an extent and some of them have even had their past expanded upon.. i.e. Robin, Franky and Sanji. I don't really think Chopper being originally a reindeer would be sent 800 years forward into the future. That leaves us with 2 of the starting crew members. Zoro and Nami.
What we know of them is pretty minute compared to the rest. I know someone will bring kokoyashi village but don't forget that Nami was adopted by Bellemere and she was found in the middle of a war; something akin to a "Spoils of war" so she became an "orphan" at age who knows but still a baby. That opens a huge IF there.Nami has 2 distinct traits her mapping and the understanding of weather, currents and so on; plus she seems to be extremely sensitive to changes in the atmosphere, a compass of sorts.
Then there's Zoro whose past if even more cryptic. We only know he had a friend and rival (Kuina) and that apparently she died as a result of a mishap. Pretty vague. For Nami and Zoro not to have a proper flashback considering how extremely prominent they are in this story seems a bit out of left field.
What about Luffy? From what I've read so far Luffy is more of a catalizing agent. His influence on Shirahoshi and Vivi along with his immense Charisma is what will make the cogs turn; but he might not be the center shield but a sharp jaavaline. Now, there's the will of D. Which by all means might refer to a whole new race altogether or a special family, in which case its surname ended up being abreviated to such an extent only D remains and nothing can be traced back.
Man, I’m always waiting for one of these flashbacks to surprise me and show that the person who we thought was dead is actually fine and staged it somehow. Bummer.
