@Count:
What I was pointing out is how Suneater, a completely forgettable and expendable one-time character, got a whole fight and mini-flashback but all four ladies got a handful of bare minimum panel scraps. If Horikoshi felt the arc was too long and planned out the plot better, he could have realized that, hey, maybe having two of the series main recurring characters that happen to be female getting a fight would be more profitable than Suneater getting one.
I fully disagree with that opinion. The author* biggest problem is going to fast and not doing build up. I still call the absence of the usual carefree period at the begenning of the manga a mistake that forces him to introduce the elements that would have been there in weird places and limit the initial investment on the students. You should not make people care for your characters 10 seconds before they finally became relevant. So he made the right decision by putting the spotlight on the top 3 rather than fading them out of existence.
The real mistake was not giving time to Nejire, the third member of the top 3. The other members of class A already have people invested on them. Everyone that was there were those that already received plenty of focus from the author throughout the story. Fleshing out or making us care about a new character should have been a priority. As for people that received spotlight they shouldn't it's Rock man that just had proven himself recently when he used his even harder mode. The focus should have been Deku, Mirio & the rest of top 3 and only then everyone else.
*I hate remembering name so call him "the author"
The best case scenario is that everyone gets their own fights, which the anime will probably do. But if it had to come down to one or the other when the arc was happening in the manga, Horikoshi made the wrong choice period.
HE made the wrong choice but it was Rock man not suneater(who is bland but that's a different issue).
Uraraka still got a whole fight in the Sports Festival against Bakugo, where she looked decently impressive. Although she lost in the most anticlimactic way possible lol.
I consider it was the right choice then. Try hard even if it doesn't always pays off. And it wasn't the right place to make McBoom lose since there wasn't even a lesson about how he shouldn't underestimate his opponents. It was the right way to handle the fight. Don't let the future development cloud your judgement of the past.
But I agree that everyone can shine in this arc. Which is a huge first for this manga.
I'm surprise we haven't skipped anything yet.
I can maybe see that happening. But I don't know. He didn't just off-panel the girls, he purposefully grouped them all together for the sake of them all being girls and also had Suneater save Aizawa even though Tsuyu or any other girl was also around and never got to do anything. And then there's Uraraka tackling Overhaul to make her look like she's badass when she's really pinning an unconscious man onto the ground lol. She at least laments being useless, but then that circles back to wondering why that had to be the case even if Horikoshi has development planned.
I think he wanted the focus on Deku and Mirio. Suneater was a byproduct of making us care more for Mirio(I remember thinking that MIrio's flashback should have come first for the proper impact). As for the girl grouping unconscious thing. Group them so you can more easily handle them than when you have to cut out the fluff(because the plot was waaaay to much) you inadvertantly erase them because it seems the most harmeless.
My hope is that when he rereads it he realize how weird it is that Nejire got nothing worthwhile.
But yeah, it might just be an unconscious habit.
The guy is way to muchinto social thing for it not be unconscious. The question now is if he will realize it.
Why Overhaul sucks:
I don't like his power. It makes Shigaraki look redundant and even if Shigaraki never existed, it's still way too OP and is basically three whole different superpowers in one (deconstruction, healing, and fusion). Overhaul is basically Josuke Higashikata but hilariously broken.
He's an alchemist.
Threatening schemer villains are nice, but those are such broad general villain types that they hardly count as specific character traits for Overhaul. Which is close to zero. Wanting to revive the Yakuza is a little interesting worldbuilding-wise, but I could hardly care about that. And his other motivation to cure the world of Quirks never got explored enough for it to make sense or be captivating.
After weird crazy villains that wanted to destroy society just coz and man babies. I needed a little normal in my life. I seemed to finally get someone that is evil, had a plan and a goal.
His one and only actual unique characterization trait, being a germaphobe, was definitely interesting at the start of the arc, but then it never gets referenced ever again which is disappointing. That phobia could have even been exploited as a psychological weakness that makes him lose the battle similar to how Twice will never clone himself again.
If you didn't repeat it often I probably woudn't notice that's a thing. Also it reminds me that he should be the one with mask to not not have to breathe in the filth. That thing bothered me a lot in the arc. He should be the one wearing the mask not the filth. If the filth is wearing it it's just a design but if it's him it's part of his personality. God that annoys me that it was not reversed.
Wanting to revive the Yakuza is a little interesting worldbuilding-wise, but I could hardly care about that.
The arc hinges a lot of its drama on him abusing Eri, which works as a motivation for the heroes. But we never learn anything uniquely interesting about Overhaul and Eri's relationship or interactions other than Eri having docile abuse victim traits so that too barely interested me. Especially compared to whenever a One Piece supporting character has a tragic flashback connected to an arc villain like Nami and Arlong, which is usually a lot more memorable.
Actually I think all the ingredients were there. They were just badly mixed. The flashbacks should have come sooner giving us a better perspective. Probablly egenning of the arc for his motivation. Than at a moment that the heroes or his men are doubting his resolve you see the yakuza boss with a qucik flashback f how he had to put him on ice to let him save the Yakuza for him. than at the end of the arc Eri give her full name and you realize it's the same as the boss.
I think the best villain we've had in this series so far is Gentle. Not that I don't have my own small gripes with him, but he's fun, can be a bit intimidating, has one of the most creative powers and fights in this series yet, a decent design, and has room for future character growth. And most of all, I appreciated the manga not immediately trying to top Overhaul and instead having a smaller villain focus and personal conflict. It helps keep the story fresh, versatile, and colorful, which a series based around a concept as expansive as superhero tropes/worship should.
Considering the author seems to acknowledge some of his flaws I guess I can consider Gentle a decent one. I still consider Sylar better both for how much fun he seems to have with the thing and how he actually passed the torch and care for Facepalm. Of course, if we learn he never cared about Facepalm it becomes shit but I'll give the benefit of the doubt. Also there's Stain as more captivating and Twice as more engaging. So Gentle is 3rd at best, 4th for me.
You already know I have a lot of hopes for Shigaraki. But even I can agree that even if he is guaranteed to have future development and unpeeled layers, he isn't really a charismatic character yet. I like the steps of his development, but the actual character himself is still rather… eh. Especially compared to Twice.
And while I like him caring about his teammates in the Yakuza arc, that development came out of freaking nowhere. I get that he still probably wants to keep them a huge mystery, but Horikoshi could spend a little more time focusing on the League of Villains bonding with each other instead of skipping from checkpoint to checkpoint with little-to-no meat in-between.
Well he suddenly has a personality and can move so that's already something. And his connection to Sylar(first time he was emotional in a way I cared) give me some hope.
You can see this in how Dabi underwhelmingly contributes nothing to the Endeavor arc other maybe foreshadowing himself being Endeavor's long lost son unless that's a red herring. Even the Hawks double agent twist could have been done with literally any other villain and nothing changes.
Dabi has cool powers and visual. I have zero investment in pole man(Or is he the one that died?). Mostly my interest in the league is superficial except twice. Did mention already that twice is the best villain of the author. Probably also his most well done character work? There's Flamebeard but we don't know if he can stick the landing and McBoom is simpler.
You highlighted every single shallow tactic both manga and western comics use to hype up their new bland edgy villain. When you type it all out like that, it's no wonder he failed to impress lol.
I take killing characters very seriously. Especially in this kind of story where killing is so hard to do. It just happen that I hardly cared for those who died.
I want to also add to this point how both Nighteye and Eri show why time-based powers are awful and should almost never be used in fiction unless planned extremely well in advance.
Hate Eri's powers to death. And I still call BS on the power making people powerless forever but whatever.
Knighteye powers should not be counterable.
If I only I could say the same.
I just love Mirio and everything he does. So him being cute with Eri works.
Which reminds me it would have been better if Knighteye didn't touch Mirio but just believed in him.
True, but she's also never definitively won a fight either. She mostly stalls and escapes, and maybe incapacitates a minor supporting character no one cares about off-panel. Which is fine, but not particularly noteworthy to me. I'd say that's the easy copout way to make your female characters look competent but never reaching the heights the guys always do many manga like to do. "See, they do things! Even though those things are never all that important…"
Well she doesn't spend her time as a damsel i distress(Nami's role) and actually show she is decent(something smoothie doesn't do or Robin) so I would say that's good.
@Count:
No, I think the issue is Overhaul's battle performance. Allow me to break it down:
Meh fighting wise I always pictured him as high level. I thinking both seeing his power and trashing the league gave him that minimum. The proper is that he never delivered. I am not so much underwhelmed as much as I am frustrated. He should have taken some hero out in the tunnels before being catched up by Mirio.
@Count:
So you didn't like how he rage quitted after Knuckleduster decked him in the schnoz and sliced off his nose to look more edgy?
So what's Stain backstory?
@Cyclone_Baroness:
But overall I wouldn't enjoy Deku becoming an Ichigo or a Naruto and outclassing his classmates by such a wide margin when we've already seen the downside of how having one guy at the top who was so far above his peers can be too unsteady.
ISn't that bound to happen since he inherit All Might strength? Unless we are saying a bunch of class A is gonna be as strong/stronger than All-Might in his prime.
@Count:
What would really make me nostalgic Toriko is a scene where All for One brags to All-Might about dating Nana Shimura but deciding to cheat on her like a tool.
I was more thinking Gran Torino reveals with an evil grin to All-Might he was always evil and that Nana stays his friend like a fool despite that time where he passed a naked photo of her to everyone to humiliate her.
@MrBits:
I should probably get back to Toriko at some point. It sounds like the best and worst shonen ever, at the exact same time.
The ending was incredebly rushed but when it was good it was the most entertainment and enjoyment I could get from a manga. And Even some of the bad was fascinatingly entertaining.
Anyway, back on topic, do you think we'll get anything special for chapter 200? Like another boob joke?
Dick jokes for equality?
@Royce:
Considering Suneater winded out ranking higher than Tsuyu in the last popularity poll? But I digress. Wouldn't showing off new characters be the smarter thing to do tha established ones since we might not ever see them for a long time?
You are right. Rock guy(established chracter) should have been sidelined for Nejire(new character).
She laments not being able to save a damn life. Jesus. Also people are still on her apprehending Overhaul….what's she's suppose to do? Given that Overhaul was still fighting even while unconcious but if she did nothing people would have complained either way so you pretty much can't win.
Probably wanted her to get focus during the main meat of the arc not the after match.
I'm going to stop you right there because there was nothing uniquely interesting about those two since they spell out how Nami felt about him and since Arlong has no reason to treat Nami like shit outside being a racist.
I don't think we are talking unique but compelling. The visuals makes it easier to connect. Which is why putting Overhaul flashback at the beginning would have been better.
People didn't start giving a shit about Crocodile until his return when Oda actually gave him some depth to work with before then he was just this cool looking villain with a vague ass plan, Luffy didn't even have a deep seated grudge against him either.
I suppose by people you general readers and consider the internet to be moot. What level do you consider people give a shit about the character? Top 10? Top 20? Top 30? Top 50?
It would not have been nearly as interesting with any other villain.
I think he is referencing specifically the Hawks thing. Would it really be less interesting if Toga was going the talking?
Because that wouldn't have made sense unless Toga would have just died then and there.
Clone of Toga I think is what is meant.
Seems like people just hated Nighteye for being a meanie than the mechanisms of his powers and Eri hasn't even done anything yet to break the power balance of the series though people were hellbent on driving through that it was a bad idea and that she would have revived Nighteye and give Mirio his quirk back by the end of the arc both of which didn't happen.
I think people have trouble with Knighteye powers suddenly becoming fallible.He had been trying for years to found a flaw and never found one. Deku just doing it without any particular feels like a cop out rather than earned. And since the author went so down to earth and practical with the powers having one that was overcome by emotional means or thematic means rather than practical one feel like a cop out.
I always have to wonder what exactly is the standard for handling female characters in a Shounen Jump manga because a lot of these arguments feel SJW-ish where the only satisfying answer would be for female characters to take primary focus. We can't even use the manga for this forum's namesake or the most popular manga to run in the magazine throughout its 50 year history because it winds up being a silly ass argument.
I would say treat them in a similar fashion than the supporting male.
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@Royce:
He did something that not even he could have predicted. Wow this is so dumb!
But he predicted Deku without knowing him prior same thing when tracing the tunnels.His powers didn't indicate he needs prior knowledge. He sees the future, he doesn't predict it based on his prior knowledge.
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@King:
That's why the demographic argument is lazy. It excuses genuine flaws under the pretext that demographics don't care about them.
I think the point is if you are trying to appeal to a demographic you put things you believe they would like.
In the case of young boys, in Royce argument, it would be other strong young boys or ninjas or dragons or other things you believe young boys like/love. The demographic is the audience you are primarily trying to reach.
Of course you can choose to challenge that demographic or expend beyond but appealing to your targeted demographic seems like something people would try to do. That's why they are called a target.
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I once spent a weak eating without salt. When I finally got the salt and put it in my food it might have been the appreciative I've ever been for food. Food is so much better with salt.
To me Overhaul was Salt.
I spent the whole first part of the manga having to deal with a man-baby as my threat with zero forsight and a wish to destroy heroes for nebulous reason, there was also the badass maniac that killed heroes for treating it like a job and those took his beliefs about making heroes to become full fledge villains. I have a really hard time making sense of the big villains in My hero.
Then comes Overhaul that claims to have a plan doesn't look to crazy or to normal and have similar quirk to our main man-baby villain. I'm thinking yeeeeees... Because this plan is going to be an ongoing plan and it's either gonna crush the league of villain proving how poor they really are giving me some good time with a threatening villain(eventually defeated because Faccepalm is definitely the one we have to care about). Ooor Facepalm is gonna get mad they gonna form a rivalry with of course Overhaul on top than probably something will happen that weakens Overhaul(due to the heroes) and he will be taken out in his moment of weakness.
Either way it's a win win. But somehow the author screwed that up by making it a pathetic 1 story arc rather than be a story that builds up in the background and keeps you guessing what's coming.
Anyway I liked Overhaul because there wasn't much better back then. Sylar was a retiree, Facepalm was a baby and twice was to new.