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    Chapter 900: Bad End Musical (Break)

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      BattleFranky69 @keekoishere
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      @keekoishere:

      I mean, I get what you're saying but I'm arguing that's it's not similar. In Luffy's case, it was as bad as it appeared and we were shown it was Luffy without a doubt! I wasn't browsing these forums then, but all I thought was it was a big hit. We've seen Whitebeard fighting without half his face, but not a ship burnt, destroyed and sank good to sail. What could be worse for a ship than that panel? I literally couldn't draw you a ship more destroyed than the one shown in that panel ahaha. And imo Oda hid the flags and Sunny's face on those panels for some reason. If he wanted to shock the readers he'd leave them there, or maybe he just wants us to doubt it really was Sunny and that's the twist hah

      Actually there WAS some doubt at the end of that chapter where it was justifiably speculated that it was a vision of Luffy's via Observation Haki that he was viewing what would happen to him if he didn't dodge it, a la his vision of his arms being lopped off by Mihawk the first time he used Haki. So while it turned out not to be that, it was understandable how it easily could have been given what was going on at the time. Plus Oda's pulling out numerous tropes here like the 'damage not being as bad as what was shown in the previous chapter/episode' and 'enemy wanting a fair fight so they heal/cripple themselves to balance things out'. No reason he can't do the same with the ship's predicament.

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      • Long John Silvers Rayleigh
        Long John Silvers Rayleigh @BattleFranky69
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        @BattleFranky69:

        Actually there WAS some doubt at the end of that chapter where it was justifiably speculated that it was a vision of Luffy's via Observation Haki that he was viewing what would happen to him if he didn't dodge it, a la his vision of his arms being lopped off by Mihawk the first time he used Haki. So while it turned out not to be that, it was understandable how it easily could have been given what was going on at the time. Plus Oda's pulling out numerous tropes here like the 'damage not being as bad as what was shown in the previous chapter/episode' and 'enemy wanting a fair fight so they heal/cripple themselves to balance things out'. No reason he can't do the same with the ship's predicament.

        True but it beong ch 900 I cant see it all be "just a dream of big mom" and the strawhats escape in 901. It has to have consequences and not be skippable

        Chapter 437 Discussion after franky decides to join the Strawhats:

        So who think Usopp is inside that duffelbag?

        H x H Chimera Ant Arc / OP Manga Spoiler

        Spoiler:

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          BattleFranky69 @Long John Silvers Rayleigh
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          @Long:

          True but it beong ch 900 I cant see it all be "just a dream of big mom" and the strawhats escape in 901. It has to have consequences and not be skippable

          I'm not saying it didn't happen, just that the scope of it isn't as bad as this depiction makes it out to be. Or that some of it might be illusory as an escape tactic. Also, shame on Chopper for not going Guard Point again just in case. It's not like he needs the Rumble Ball for anything other than Monster Point anymore, and he doesn't even need to move to utilize the defensive ability of GP.

          Actually, now that I think about it, what would happen if he ate 3 Rumble Balls in a row now that he's already got Monster Point mastered?

          @AvocadoInTheRain:

          In Water 7 they clearly said that you could rebuild any ship as long as you throw enough money at it, and the keel isn't broken. They specifically said that the keel was the only thing that wasn't fixable.

          That's kind of what got me thinking Franky would make the bottom of the ship able to open up as an emergency submersion mechanism, since you could then split the keel in half and it would be easier to replace than the entire thing since you might only need to replace half of it, or since it would be designed to be mobile, it could be replaced depending on how he installed it.

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          • Long John Silvers Rayleigh
            Long John Silvers Rayleigh @BattleFranky69
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            @BattleFranky69:

            I'm not saying it didn't happen, just that the scope of it isn't as bad as this depiction makes it out to be. Or that some of it might be illusory as an escape tactic. Also, shame on Chopper for not going Guard Point again just in case. It's not like he needs the Rumble Ball for anything other than Monster Point anymore, and he doesn't even need to move to utilize the defensive ability of GP.

            Actually, now that I think about it, what would happen if he ate 3 Rumble Balls in a row now that he's already got Monster Point mastered?

            That's kind of what got me thinking Franky would make the bottom of the ship able to open up as an emergency submersion mechanism, since you could then split the keel in half and it would be easier to replace than the entire thing since you might only need to replace half of it, or since it would be designed to be mobile, it could be replaced depending on how he installed it.

            Oh no I agree with you there that there's a high chance even with angles and all that the sunny will still only take a moderate amount of damage here. I cant see nothing happening though as in the entire situation near cacao was unchanged. Even if big mom's homies we're influenced by her joy so much that they started attaxking her own men thatd at least be a change in the narrative.

            Chapter 437 Discussion after franky decides to join the Strawhats:

            So who think Usopp is inside that duffelbag?

            H x H Chimera Ant Arc / OP Manga Spoiler

            Spoiler:

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              BattleFranky69 @Long John Silvers Rayleigh
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              @Long:

              Oh no I agree with you there that there's a high chance even with angles and all that the sunny will still only take a moderate amount of damage here. I cant see nothing happening though as in the entire situation near cacao was unchanged. Even if big mom's homies we're influenced by her joy so much that they started attaxking her own men thatd at least be a change in the narrative.

              All we can really say is that the effect of incapacitating her in some way doesn't seem to be achieved by her eating the cake, meaning the escape of anyone, Firetank Pirates, Germa or Straw Hats, isn't going according to plan. Now there's no telling what the hell they're going to do, intact ship or not.

              But something tells me that her finding out the truth about Mother Caramel isn't unlikely as we may have originally projected. THAT would certainly fry her brain. And someone who works for a very secretive organization who'd know all about that is nearby. But what motivation do they have to spill it? Or would she be captured, Pudding just happening to interrogate, and finding that nugget of horror that will save her beloved fiancee?

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                .access timeco. @keekoishere
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                @keekoishere:

                Why wouldn't Oda show us CLEARLY the Strawhats flag on those ship panels? There's no point in building mistery if everyone already assumes it's the Sunny being hit, so why wouldn't he give us a panel of the Sunny's Lion face sinking? Something else? There's no buildup to Sunny's death/failure as a dream ship?

                You'll need to spoonfeed me here, what is the scenario you are envisioning?
                Because of all of the proposed ones I saw being mentioned so far, the SH flag being shown on the ship wouldn't make any of them more or less likely to happen.

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                  keekoishere @BattleFranky69
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                  @BattleFranky69:

                  Actually there WAS some doubt at the end of that chapter where it was justifiably speculated that it was a vision of Luffy's via Observation Haki that he was viewing what would happen to him if he didn't dodge it, a la his vision of his arms being lopped off by Mihawk the first time he used Haki. So while it turned out not to be that, it was understandable how it easily could have been given what was going on at the time. Plus Oda's pulling out numerous tropes here like the 'damage not being as bad as what was shown in the previous chapter/episode' and 'enemy wanting a fair fight so they heal/cripple themselves to balance things out'. No reason he can't do the same with the ship's predicament.

                  Yes, but that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about the scenario that if it's true, then the Sunny is burnt, sunk under the sea and if that Luffy scene was true, then he had the right side of his torso torn off. Two distinct outcomes and I'm arguing that Sunny is sank, under the sea. The equivalent to that Luffy scene would be the Sunny getting his main mast torn out, or getting a big chunk of the ship out, not getting sunk, burning, torn apart under the sea. See where I'm getting at? With the Luffy scene I could realistically say "oh whitebeard had worse done to him" and at least I had a guess (when I read I didn't even think about it, I just thought "wow big blow let's see next chapter" and I don't think you could contest that.) But the best people can come up with after Chapter 900 is "oh, the keel survives and Franky rebuilds it." See the difference? Also, I reiterate that in the Luffy scene you were shown Luffy, and in this scene you just see a ship that looks like Sunny, why would Oda take the flags out or the Lion head and only show the flag by itself floating?

                  Anyway this argument is moot, I just can't wait for next chapter goddamnnn

                  –- Update From New Post Merge ---

                  @.access:

                  You'll need to spoonfeed me here, what is the scenario you are envisioning?
                  Because of all of the proposed ones I saw being mentioned so far, the SH flag being shown on the ship wouldn't make any of them more or less likely to happen.

                  My point is we're allowed to second guess it because Oda purposely hid the flags on those panels. Had he had drawn them we wouldn't have this conversation.

                  The scenario I'm envisioning I've explained in a previous post in a more detailed way, but basically the ship sunk is not the Sunny and it's some other ship. It's a parallelism between the scene of Big Mom's birthday where she ate her mother and friends even though her happiness made her fail to notice it - everything we see in chapter 900 is real but it's a misdirection. Just a guess, but at least I'm not saying Sunny got hit but it's no problem even though we literally just saw a ship under the sea, broken and in flames x)

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                    Blissed @keekoishere
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                    @keekoishere:

                    But the best people can come up with after Chapter 900 is "oh, the keel survives and Franky rebuilds it." See the difference?

                    I mean, the stuff people have come up as to why they're convinced it's fake aren't exactly better….

                    I only have three main thoughts in my mind:

                    1. The theories explaining why it's fake aren't convincing me at all.

                    2. No matter what happens next chapter, the Sunny isn't going to be in a position where it needs to be replaced with a new ship.

                    3. The events of this chapter has me realize that tbh, the most effective way for them to escape given what we currently know is for everyone to think they're dead, which does make me wonder if Oda would actually go down that route.

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                      BattleFranky69 @keekoishere
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                      @keekoishere:

                      Yes, but that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about the scenario that if it's true, then the Sunny is burnt, sunk under the sea and if that Luffy scene was true, then he had the right side of his torso torn off.

                      Which technically he did not because the damage was nowhere near as bad as it was originally depicted (a common thing in anime/manga) ergo we can't rule that out as happening again to another person/object. Am I going to assign a likelihood value to it? No. But we can't say for certain 'til we see the next chapter.

                      Two distinct outcomes and I'm arguing that Sunny is sank, under the sea.

                      And I'm fine with that as a possibility, though technically (You're going to hate that word by the time this is over) it could be sunk by design if any of the proposed hypotheses about the fishmen's involvement or the ship's mechanisms are true.

                      The equivalent to that Luffy scene would be the Sunny getting his main mast torn out, or getting a big chunk of the ship out, not getting sunk, burning, torn apart under the sea. See where I'm getting at?

                      No, that entire scenario is contradictory. How do you not get sunk and torn apart under the sea? I'm guessing that was an unfinished thought but I get the gist of it. But again, if you eliminate any possible alternatives, of course that's what happened and that's the worst-case scenario which doesn't seem very feasible since that would be like a nakama dying. Can it be partially true? Sure, and that's actually what I'm counting on. But partially is the key word.

                      With the Luffy scene I could realistically say "oh whitebeard had worse done to him" and at least I had a guess (when I read I didn't even think about it, I just thought "wow big blow let's see next chapter" and I don't think you could contest that.)

                      Whitebeard wasn't coming back from that wound, though, whether or not BB killed him. Oda reduced the extent of the damage so Luffy could keep going. In my opinion it would have been more interesting if Katakuri had grafted some synthetic Mochi skin onto Luffy to repair the damage, but he went another way and achieved the same result. All this really means is now Luffy's in no shape to do anything further so he'll have to rely on everyone else to get stuff done.

                      But the best people can come up with after Chapter 900 is "oh, the keel survives and Franky rebuilds it." See the difference? Also, I reiterate that in the Luffy scene you were shown Luffy, and in this scene you just see a ship that looks like Sunny, why would Oda take the flags out or the Lion head and only show the flag by itself floating?

                      You know how freaky as hell Franky's body is, right? Even before the time-skip he was a reverse centaur, for crying out loud, so can we expect his ship designs not to have some crazy surprises too? Plus he saw how messed-up the keel was on Merry. Why not put in some kind of safeguard? It's not like it's entirely impossible. The docking system isn't the only trick he could have installed in the Sunny. What better mastery of shipwright craft could there be than surpassing the limitations on a keel? I'd like to think Franky had enough faith in the ship not to let it go into the lion's den without him there to look after it.

                      Anyway this argument is moot, I just can't wait for next chapter goddamnnn

                      What was the point of all that, then? If we don't know then speculation is perfectly justifiable as long as it isn't completely disprovable.

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                        Retro @Kaido King of the Beasts
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                        @Kaido:

                        Doesn't he already have the ability though? And I'd think getting shot down with cannonballs is something anyone could see coming in that situation, Observation Haki or no.

                        I was thinking the vision kicked in after the Sunny parted with Judge's ship. Everything past that point is Luffy seeing the future.

                        Heh that would be funny

                        Luffy: (Coming out of the seeing the Sunny blown up) o_o
                        Judge: Well answer me Straw Hat!
                        Luffy: Uh hold that thought, just got a vision of our sudden death.

                        Get nuts or go crazy trying.

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                          Shobu Yoruichi @Strooger
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                          @Chrior:

                          Sorry if I sounded rude, but I really meant to use sarcasm as a way to make you look at your own argument from a different perspective. I could elaborate a wall of text about this issue but it seems Count Mario has done so already, as always. Shortly, I wanted to say that:

                          1. Sunny is a crewmate; not exactly like one of the Straw hats, but an essential friend who carries the crew throughout their journey. Having it be unceremoniously destroyed just like this and left behind is not what One Piece is about at all. The Straw Hats aren't about to sacrifice one of their own comrades to such a fate. Pedro was already enough of a sacrifice and he wasn't even a crew member (not to mention he didn't have long to live anyway; and the debate about him being truly dead isn't really over)!

                          2. Sunny was born as a successor to Merry, even inheriting its (literal) spirit! We have been through the story of losing the ship and all of the drama that comes with it. Would this situation be exactly the same? No, of course not. Merry was broken many many times and shoddily repaired by Usopp until it could no longer continue sailing. In a certain sense, Merry was a metaphor for Usopp himself and his position in the crew, a 'tool' for his character development. The Sunny, on the other hand, is Franky's masterpiece, intricately tied to his dream. Which leads to…

                          3. Sunny being destroyed is not an obstacle to Franky that must be surpassed to realize his dream. It is the destruction of his dream. He wanted to build a ship to surpass Oro Jackson, one that could carry the Pirate King around the world and which would be maintained by Franky as the shipwright. The Sunny was built with the best and rarest wood in the world, from Adam Tree; which was bought with the money the Franky Family stole from the Straw Hats, essentially meaning that the efforts of the crew in previous arcs (including Merry) rewarded them with the construction of the Thousand Sunny. Its destruction would mean a way way tougher blow than the loss of Merry. It would be a defeat even worse than Sabaody, in the sense that they can't recover that piece of their adventures in any way. Would it be a nice dramatic twist? Yes, it would. But this is not the type of story One Piece is. This is a series where our main cast sets out on a big adventure to make their lives' dreams come true (and where barely anyone dies in the present time).

                          My idea is that the ship is heavily damaged and not destroyed. Not only this is also really bad and a tough reversal of fortunes (how can the crew escape with a badly damaged ship?), it is also a hurdle in Franky's dream. Remember, he wants to maintain the ship as they sail. So far, he has done nothing of the sort, unlike Usopp back in the day. This is his chance to prove he still has his shipwright skills and to take another step towards his dream, by taking this chance to improve the Sunny. Not only that, someone in this thread posted the time we spent with the Going Merry and the time we have been with the Thousand Sunny. It turns out that the Sunny already surpassed Merry. A final makeover to make things fresh wouldn't hurt at all, I think. A new design for the final strech of the series. Sounds good to me. Not something radical, but something new.

                          --- Update From New Post Merge ---

                          That's... exactly the point. See post above. Usopp's character development is even directly tied to the ship. The point is, destroying the Sunny is making Franky realise that his dream can not come true. It makes as much sense as Usopp accepting that he is always going to be a weak coward and give up on his dream.

                          It's a remarkable post, but i disagree.

                          Oda won't let the weak factor of Usopp to go at the middle of the series, whatever the reason that might pop-up. He will remain coward and weak to our eyes, and only at the end, when the whole world acknowledges him to be brave is when he will let it go.

                          I can understand the link with Usopp and the Sunny, but not share it like it was with Merry. Merry being Kaya's gift is a huge drive for Usopp to cherish it, both coming from Syrup village makes me understand that there is deeper connection with it more like with any other Strawhat, Sunny can perfectly have Merry's Klabauterrman, but the roots of Merry are irreplaceable to my eyes, specially when Usopp doesn't even has to worry about it, because is Franky's dream to make it functional.

                          Finally, Usopp has already showed that can do things that no one else can do, has already showed an endurance compared to Luffy who's owner of a rubber body, and got the enough wit to face any kind of hardship like the bravest warrior… he already, by himself, achieved his dream.

                          I agree on your Sunny comment, i also think it's only damaged, mostly because:

                          He already made the last one.

                          @Strooger:

                          That's stretching it quite a bit.

                          MC's character development only has two pillars standing high compared to the others, Usopp and Zoro.
                          Usopp's good and Zoro's fine.

                          Usopp's one is good because he doesn't has a great fate to fulfill, but remarkable enough because he fights more or less with Oda himself, it's a thing that goes with how Oda portrays him as a courageous or as a warrior. He plays with those two factors from time to time, and as how Usopp's dream is "to become a brave warrior of the sea", he pretty much has to have the credits to say to others that he has tested all "what the sea has" to trying to overcome him.

                          Reality and most important is that he already has proved to be brave and formidable warrior, you can say that he already catched his dream and bring facts to argue about it, so only the author is the responsible for the notion of what has happened and what he has learned about it.

                          Zoro is pretty much the same behaviour since his introduction, he got a nice development to my eyes for putting his friends and his own perception of pirate above/forward to the one of becoming world's best swordman, he's no longer proud when it comes to what he protects, as his master taught him that way, it's nice to see it… like what a real shonen MC should behave. That contrast is nice to see to me.

                          Nami is a comedy resource since Arabasta, do i have seen her drawing a map?? She's now focused to be strong enough to do something... like Usopp's worries at W7, but without saying it, she doesn't excels at all, to me.

                          Robin is the translator - comedy resource atm, her full review at Enies Lobby was nice 400 chapter ago, trusting like she never did before is a development to some readers, to me isn't... i feel when i see her to be more like a furniture many times... she awakes when there is a Poneglyph.

                          Chopper is the cuteness factor, a cure to all?? To the same corner where Nami is, he's thinking the same as Usopp in this arc.

                          Franky is already an adult, he was amazing back there and showed almost anything that might be of use to the story, now i feel him to be more manly than ever and lost some attributes that showed before, he only has to supervise his dream to be fulfilled. Hope this chapter proves him to show more of his feelings that are missed to me.

                          Brook is the best of this trash-can, i can still feel his regards and respect to Luffy for let him joining just like that first time, he is a good character plus a good comedy resource, development? He got a little, he knows that Luffy will become Pirate King, puts his life on the line for it, like the ones that really have good development... but still don't put him above this, because he cares more for others than for him, to me, meeting Laboon is a weak dream enough to cruise the Grand Line.

                          Sanji is the worst, got character development... he learned to a new sweet recipe, All Blue? Still Kicking? Okama kempo?? No, yes, no. The development of the series helped us to notice how mediocre is he, he "un-developed", now he doesn't get fights and Jinbe's crew status is shattering his title as Monster Trio member.

                          Luffy, he's pretty much the same, more stupid tho. He won't change ever, i can expect nothing from him, he will always defeat the strongest guy, because nobody else can do it, half of Japan likes it, many readers love it, i despise it. 😧 What was the point of Ace's death? Him, getting stronger xD What a waste.

                          My reflexion point about this character development is what all of this MC are, and that is pirates.
                          One Piece's pirates go and fight to fulfill their dreams, and it's a world where pirates have the upper-hand to do so, therefore you can expect them to dream big and high... there are some characters that for story's fault, this doesn't shows as good as it sounds. Because we care for story more than characters, Oda's big point at storytelling is that he's the one who created a jigsaw-puzzle and drops pieces from time to time... so his characters aren't pretty much with a space to grow, so they remain as they were introduced first, and with so many character as this series has, it's normal from some to screw hard at their screen-time.

                          So when some of them, appear to be big or low, and whatever the reason, climb to catch their dreams again, is grateful to see that sight... and when you have MC that are always big, those are fated to fail on that department of "being pirates".

                          Nothing exists; even if something exists, nothing can be known about it. Even if something can be known about it,

                          knowledge about it can't be communicated to others. Even if it can be communicated, it cannot be understood.

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                            GolD.Ace22
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                            Well the SH's can't technically leave because they have to make sure that Pudding leaves Tottoland too. And Jajji for the apology and his eyebrows of course. Oda can't leave us hanging on those eyebrows. Plus Bobbin and Chopper still have to do stuff. The Sunny will survive until Franky can fix it up. And lastly that Luffy will defeat Big Mom.

                            Knowing this I can only estimate these things:

                            1. The most possible case is that Luffy and the SH's are going to be captured. In this case our Hero's will only be saved by using their own wits. This scenario gives a possible alliance with Big Mom but that seems highly unlikely, and although this might allow for Tony to show off his awesome doctor skills and Pudding to reach her resolution it still doesn't explain the Sunny or save Jajji.

                            2. The next scenario involves escape. But how do these bastards escape this Hell. The Fishman saving them would seem unlikely, Oven just went out his way to incapacitate them. Capone needs to worry about his family and the FireTank Pirates. Gastino is long gone or so I would think, as he has no reason to save our protagonist. Germa could force their army to protect the SH's, this would allow Jajji the moments he needs but wouldn't solve Pudding's problems or give Chopper any shine. A lot is required for this situation.

                            3. The last scenario is what i believe the least likely. Combat!! If possible Nami could use BM's vivre card to control the homies and the Queen Mama. This would mean that our heroes are going back to save Pudding and likely the Germa as well, before making their actual escape. This scenario is completely unthinkable given our current status.

                            I'm betting Oda picks Option 9 tho.
                            =D

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                              Blissed @GolD.Ace22
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                              @GolD.Ace22:

                              Well the SH's can't technically leave because they have to make sure that Pudding leaves Tottoland too.

                              They don't have to do this at all. Nothing so far in this arc has put Pudding in a position where she's forced to leave, or in need of saving. Hell, this is the weirdest time to be saying this since she is currently being hailed as Totland's savior. The only one who can fuck it up for her now is herself, if she decides to admit the truth about Sanji helping to bake the cake. Maybe that'll happen. Maybe not. And even then it's not guaranteed since she'd still be their savior.

                              With what we currently know, they don't have any obligation to take Pudding with them, nor is she forced to leave. I don't even know how still comes to that conclusion after Sanji already said his goodbyes. They'd sooner randomly go to save Pekoms and/or Germa sooner as of the current chapter.

                              And Jajji for the apology and his eyebrows of course. Oda can't leave us hanging on those eyebrows. Plus Bobbin and Chopper still have to do stuff. The Sunny will survive until Franky can fix it up. And lastly that Luffy will defeat Big Mom.

                              Oda could very well troll when it comes to Judge. The Straw Hats themselves don't necessarily need to save them, but I agree that Oda should let us know that they've escaped successfully. No idea if you're trolling regarding Bobbin. Chopper is more or less the Robin of this arc, not really expecting anything notable this late in the arc on his behalf. Agreed on the Sunny.

                              And Big Mom isn't getting defeated this arc, much less by Luffy.

                              1. The most possible case is that Luffy and the SH's are going to be captured. In this case our Hero's will only be saved by using their own wits. This scenario gives a possible alliance with Big Mom but that seems highly unlikely, and although this might allow for Tony to show off his awesome doctor skills and Pudding to reach her resolution it still doesn't explain the Sunny or save Jajji.

                              I highly, highly doubt we went through all of that, just to have them captured again. That would be a complete and utter failure. On the extremely slim chance that this happens however, I bet it would come down to spinning the roulette wheel, as opposed to using their wits to escape. Becuase if Oda's just going to have them escape using their wits, then why wouldn't he just have them do that here and now….

                              2. The next scenario involves escape. But how do these bastards escape this Hell. The Fishman saving them would seem unlikely, Oven just went out his way to incapacitate them. Capone needs to worry about his family and the FireTank Pirates. Gastino is long gone or so I would think, as he has no reason to save our protagonist. Germa could force their army to protect the SH's, this would allow Jajji the moments he needs but wouldn't solve Pudding's problems or give Chopper any shine. A lot is required for this situation.

                              Not even going to try and work out the specifics, especially regarding how the Germa get out of this, but I'm betting that the Sun Pirates aren't done here in terms of helping them escape. Also I don't know why you're saying they're incapacitated. They're not, Oven simply made it so that they currently can't get too close to the Sunny. But it's not like they're outright defeated or anything.

                              3. The last scenario is what i believe the least likely. Combat!! If possible Nami could use BM's vivre card to control the homies and the Queen Mama. This would mean that our heroes are going back to save Pudding and likely the Germa as well, before making their actual escape. This scenario is completely unthinkable given our current status.

                              I'm betting Oda picks Option 9 tho.
                              =D

                              Well, at least you recognize it as being unthinkable lol

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                              • Buggy D. Clown
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                                Next chapter can't come sooner…still a week more to go, these theories are getting annoying lol

                                Ship can't possibly be destroyed. That would devalue everything Franky has done. This is a ship of dreams. Maybe this is a dream conjured up by big mom. Only time will tell

                                One Piece ,\/,,

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                                  GolD.Ace22 @Blissed
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                                  Wadatsumi is the only Sun Pirate that looks to have survived Oven's attack. All of the others look incapacitated. Pudding told the SH's she needed saving from Tottoland so they're not gonna leave without saving her in some way. Bobbin and Chopper both still have to do things. And the Jajji must reveal his eyebrows. This arc's got a good 30 chapters left in it.
                                  =D

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                                    keekoishere @BattleFranky69
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                                    @BattleFranky69:

                                    Which technically he did not because the damage was nowhere near as bad as it was originally depicted (a common thing in anime/manga) ergo we can't rule that out as happening again to another person/object. Am I going to assign a likelihood value to it? No. But we can't say for certain 'til we see the next chapter.

                                    What was the point of all that, then? If we don't know then speculation is perfectly justifiable as long as it isn't completely disprovable.

                                    Erm technically he did? But in the context of this manga we can assume that type of wound is not certain death.

                                    @BattleFranky69:

                                    No, that entire scenario is contradictory. How do you not get sunk and torn apart under the sea? I'm guessing that was an unfinished thought but I get the gist of it. But again, if you eliminate any possible alternatives, of course that's what happened and that's the worst-case scenario which doesn't seem very feasible since that would be like a nakama dying. Can it be partially true? Sure, and that's actually what I'm counting on. But partially is the key word.

                                    Lmao but that's exactly my point! How do you not get sunk and torn apart under the sea? Because that was my literal description of those panels. What I'm asking is what other scenario is likely? How is the Sunny partially destroyed when we're shown it's completely destroyed? That was my point with the Luffy scene, since we don't see him getting his heart taken out or head blown, we can accept and guess that it's just a massive blow and he'll continue fighting. But with the Sunny? Give me a scenario where after those scenes and that damage, the Sunny is still partially destroyed. 😛

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                                    • Retro
                                      Retro @Buggy D. Clown
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                                      @Buggy:

                                      Next chapter can't come sooner…still a week more to go, these theories are getting annoying lol

                                      Welcome to the world of cliffhangers, pal. =P

                                      Get nuts or go crazy trying.

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                                      • Candide
                                        Candide @keekoishere
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                                        @keekoishere:

                                        Erm technically he did? But in the context of this manga we can assume that type of wound is not certain death.

                                        Lmao but that's exactly my point! How do you not get sunk and torn apart under the sea? Because that was my literal description of those panels. What I'm asking is what other scenario is likely? How is the Sunny partially destroyed when we're shown it's completely destroyed? That was my point with the Luffy scene, since we don't see him getting his heart taken out or head blown, we can accept and guess that it's just a massive blow and he'll continue fighting. But with the Sunny? Give me a scenario where after those scenes and that damage, the Sunny is still partially destroyed. 😛

                                        Nevertheless we see the Jolly Roger, which indicates both: they have been defeated, but still are out there (underwater current, eg green room, Sun-Pirates, coating, sanji and jinbe pulling the ship, submarine, and so on). It's Adams Wood! If canvas can survive heat and cannonballs, so will the ship… Mirrage would buy them half a minute at most, and then it would be something, i just mentioned. Pudding is shown doing nothing: so no mind manipulation (also if she would be able to do such things, the world government would never give away such a devil fruit, once they would posses it for the sake of lost century). In my opinion (and many others if i recall this thread correctly) its the mama chanter shooting randomly (out of joy, like she is eating randomly out of joy) and destroying her own ships while severly damaging the sunny. How they will come out of this, we don't know yet, but the big mom pirates (and also the world probably, and also some readers) will believe, sh are done for, which will buy them enough time to get out (oda will spend this time with reverie, marco/whitebeard jr or even wano). Germa, Bege and Sun Pirates will make it out there on their own. Of course it's also possible, that a third party (sixth party if literally) will intervene. Which would be asspull/deus ex and therefore a big surprise.

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                                          When seeing the ship destroyed what is that pointy thing on head of the ship? It doesn't look like Sunny to me. Now I don't necessarily think it was another ship that got hit but still the front of it doesn't look to me like what I'd imagine the Sunny engulfed in flames to look like. Maybe it's just some wreckage flying about.

                                          Folks who read One Piece… Just better people. ¯\(ツ)/¯

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                                            Zafire
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                                            I feel like either:

                                            1. The Sunny is going to get damaged so badly they're going to be stuck on an island somewhere with a desperate attempt to try to contact Franky and get him to that island

                                            2. The fishmen put Strawhat flags on a lot of ships so it would be harder to tell which one was the Sunny.

                                            Not sure what the other rumors are, haven't read all the posts :X

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                                              What do you guys think Compote is up to right now? Perhaps ready to put her plan into action?

                                              Steam | Battle.net: FelRes#1963

                                              \(゜∀゜ ) TSUKAME PURAIDO !

                                              \( `ー´)TSUKAME SUCCESS !

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                                              • KageKageKing
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                                                Whatever Oda planned for Compote is certainly not for this arc.

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                                                  uniaka ikuzakas
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                                                  I don't get it why BM gave her own, named, ship to tamago and pekoms to travel at dressrosa. And did anyone make a top 10 biggest ships in OP and how they comparte with other things in OP, like giants or islands?

                                                  https://imgur.com/MyjRSWw

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                                                  • KageKageKing
                                                    KageKageKing @uniaka ikuzakas
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                                                    @uniaka:

                                                    I don't get it why BM gave her own, named, ship to tamago and pekoms to travel at dressrosa.

                                                    If you are gonna travel all the way to Totland to Dressrosa and Zou then it has to be a good ship.

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                                                      @Shobu:

                                                      I agree on your Sunny comment, i also think it's only damaged, mostly because:

                                                      https://i.imgur.com/EkkS2as.png

                                                      He already made the last one.

                                                      I totally forgot that part! I was also thinking back to Water 7 and those plans for Pluton that were destroyed. If any of that technology is in the Sunny, I think it would be such a waste and really lame for the ship to be destroyed. Though the ship being damaged would give Franky the opportunity to maybe add some upgrades with the Vegapunk tech that he got to study at Baldimore.

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                                                      • theackwardstation
                                                        theackwardstation @FelRes
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                                                        @FelRes:

                                                        What do you guys think Compote is up to right now? Perhaps ready to put her plan into action?

                                                        She's in Whole Cake Island right now, so probably nothing relevant.

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                                                        • .access timeco.
                                                          .access timeco. @theackwardstation
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                                                          What we saw burning was a watermelon she carved to look like the Sunny. She is actually trying to take BM down so she can be the next Charlotte matriarch.

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                                                          • FelRes
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                                                            From Big Mom to Big Sis?!

                                                            Steam | Battle.net: FelRes#1963

                                                            \(゜∀゜ ) TSUKAME PURAIDO !

                                                            \( `ー´)TSUKAME SUCCESS !

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                                                              kaedro @AvocadoInTheRain
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                                                              @AvocadoInTheRain:

                                                              In Water 7 they clearly said that you could rebuild any ship as long as you throw enough money at it, and the keel isn't broken. They specifically said that the keel was the only thing that wasn't fixable.

                                                              Hey AvocadoInTheRain, what is the meaning of all those panels full of Carrot? and "Purely coincidence"? The text is too small to read (I love carrot so I'm a bit curious 👅)

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                                                              • MrPecans
                                                                MrPecans @FelRes
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                                                                @FelRes:

                                                                What do you guys think Compote is up to right now? Perhaps ready to put her plan into action?

                                                                I'm drawing a blank on this plan you speak of.

                                                                Favorite thing aside from One Piece is movies! Updated favorite films: The Passion of Joan of Arc / Alien / It's a Wonderful Life / Casablanca / One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest / The Apartment / Nights of Cabiria / Dr. Strangelove / All About Eve / Amadeus / Man Who Shot Liberty Valance

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                                                                • Count Mario
                                                                  Count Mario @MrPecans
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                                                                  @MrPecans:

                                                                  I'm drawing a blank on this plan you speak of.

                                                                  That's how good she is at keeping plans under wraps. Instead of villainously monologuing like Pudding.

                                                                  Spoiler:

                                                                  "Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."

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                                                                  • FelRes
                                                                    FelRes @MrPecans
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                                                                    @MrPecans:

                                                                    I'm drawing a blank on this plan you speak of.

                                                                    "Soon"

                                                                    Steam | Battle.net: FelRes#1963

                                                                    \(゜∀゜ ) TSUKAME PURAIDO !

                                                                    \( `ー´)TSUKAME SUCCESS !

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                                                                      BattleFranky69 @uniaka ikuzakas
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                                                                      @uniaka:

                                                                      I don't get it why BM gave her own, named, ship to tamago and pekoms to travel at dressrosa. And did anyone make a top 10 biggest ships in OP and how they comparte with other things in OP, like giants or islands?

                                                                      Were they going there just to nab Sanji or were they also planning on trying to get the Mera Mera no Mi?

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                                                                      • Shift
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                                                                        @kaedro:

                                                                        Hey AvocadoInTheRain, what is the meaning of all those panels full of Carrot? and "Purely coincidence"? The text is too small to read (I love carrot so I'm a bit curious 👅)

                                                                        That would be my doing. Basically we both are among those who think Carrot will join the crew, and one point has been that her job would likely be official lookout, since she's been on the mast most of the time. There's Pedro's final words to her and Luffy's order for good measure. If you want to learn more about the discussion, come on by the Next Crewmate thread!

                                                                        ![](https://scontent.flas1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/25498196_10155717412051343_9025410345413307488_n.j pg)![](https://scontent.flas1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/25498196_10155717412051343_9025410345413307488_n.j pg?oh=4670e1d94ec9f74747dbcc981bb8a774&oe=5AB15A1B)

                                                                        Like the Avatar? / Like the Miis?

                                                                        Dragalia Lost ID: 97617932505

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                                                                          Big Black Hole @Count Mario
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                                                                          @Count:

                                                                          That's how good she is at keeping plans under wraps. Instead of villainously monologuing like Pudding.

                                                                          I agree that the monologue where all the villains plan's are presented in front of other characters is for the most part absolutely dumb, but with regards to Pudding we have at least a partly good reason why she could do this with Reiju, as she was as we all know able to manipulate her memories.

                                                                          Carrot's still never gonna join the crew. ![](images/smilies/ipb/wink.png "Wink")

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                                                                            Just curious, but you guys have all seen this already right?

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                                                                            • FelRes
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                                                                              Do you really need a 30 minute video to understand the concept of family in One Piece.

                                                                              Steam | Battle.net: FelRes#1963

                                                                              \(゜∀゜ ) TSUKAME PURAIDO !

                                                                              \( `ー´)TSUKAME SUCCESS !

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                                                                              • KageKageKing
                                                                                KageKageKing @FelRes
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                                                                                You don't even need to get into Alabasta to get the concept.

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                                                                                • theackwardstation
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                                                                                  What's the problem of making an analysis? Nobody's claiming to be a visionary, just exposing the observable concept inside a structured thesis, something that should be done more often in the shonen community.

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                                                                                  • KageKageKing
                                                                                    KageKageKing @theackwardstation
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                                                                                    @theackwardstation:

                                                                                    What's the problem of making an analysis? Nobody's claiming to be a visionary, just exposing the observable concept inside a structured thesis, something that should be done more often in the shonen community.

                                                                                    It certainly not a subject you need 30 minutes to explain it.

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                                                                                    • FelRes
                                                                                      FelRes @theackwardstation
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                                                                                      @theackwardstation:

                                                                                      What's the problem of making an analysis? Nobody's claiming to be a visionary, just exposing the observable concept inside a structured thesis, something that should be done more often in the shonen community.

                                                                                      It's largely the insisting that we all should have seen some 30 minute video when we could just listen to Ore-tachi wa Family again.

                                                                                      Steam | Battle.net: FelRes#1963

                                                                                      \(゜∀゜ ) TSUKAME PURAIDO !

                                                                                      \( `ー´)TSUKAME SUCCESS !

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                                                                                        Redx @FelRes
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                                                                                        @FelRes:

                                                                                        Do you really need a 30 minute video to understand the concept of family in One Piece.

                                                                                        Some people do. But it's really just an enjoyable analysis. A large portion of it pertains to Whole Cake as well.

                                                                                        –- Update From New Post Merge ---

                                                                                        @FelRes:

                                                                                        It's largely the insisting that we all should have seen some 30 minute video when we could just listen to Ore-tachi wa Family again.

                                                                                        I wasn't insisting that you should do anything. I worded my question that way because I wasn't sure if someone posted it already. I didn't want to assume you guys hadn't already watched it.

                                                                                        –- Update From New Post Merge ---

                                                                                        @theackwardstation:

                                                                                        What's the problem of making an analysis? Nobody's claiming to be a visionary, just exposing the observable concept inside a structured thesis, something that should be done more often in the shonen community.

                                                                                        ^This guy gets it. Nothing wrong with having a structured breakdown of one of the core themes. It's much more interesting imo than just lazily slapping the friendship label on it.

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                                                                                          Uh, not that the video couldn't be shorter, but it's duration is because it goes back and forth between other related subjects, mostly in WCI.

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                                                                                          • Jabra
                                                                                            Jabra @uniaka ikuzakas
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                                                                                            @uniaka:

                                                                                            I don't get it why BM gave her own, named, ship to tamago and pekoms to travel at dressrosa.

                                                                                            Some theories that make sense to me, especially in combination:

                                                                                            1. The Big Mom Pirates lost some valuable ships recently, that's why Tamago proposed to accept the treasure when Luffy offered it in exchange for the Fishman Island sweets. They were simply short on transport.

                                                                                            2. A large part of BM's crew was out "gathering" ingredients for the Tea Party.

                                                                                            3. Pekoms and Tamago were out collecting tributes, a special job that requires an intimidating presence, not necessarily violence. Big Mom's massive ship docking at your island should be enough to communicate what's up.

                                                                                            4. They were probably not aware of Caesar's exact whereabouts, but considering his relative value it make sense that they used the flagship to hunt him down. I mean, imagine they encountered Caesar on Dressrosa, under Doflamingo's care. Got to make an impression to someone like Dofla.

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                                                                                              How did viz manage to mess up the name of Oven's attack?
                                                                                              Can they not even say 'hell' now?

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                                                                                                BattleFranky69 @Jabra
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                                                                                                @Jabra:

                                                                                                Some theories that make sense to me, especially in combination:

                                                                                                1. The Big Mom Pirates lost some valuable ships recently, that's why Tamago proposed to accept the treasure when Luffy offered it in exchance for the Fishman Island sweets. They were simply short on transport.

                                                                                                2. A large part of BM's crew was out "gathering" ingredients for the Tea Party.

                                                                                                3. Pekoms and Tamago were out collecting tributes, a special job that requires an intimidating presence, not necessarily violence. Big Mom's massive ship docking at your island should be enough to communicate what's up.

                                                                                                4. They were probably not aware of Caesar's exact whereabouts, but considering his relative value it make sense that they used the flagship to hunt him down. I mean, imagine they encountered Caesar on Dressrosa, under Doflamingo's care. Got to make an impression to someone like Dofla.

                                                                                                I guess it makes sense they weren't there to screw around with Dressrosa since if that was a place where Kaido was getting supplies from, they'd have crossed him and it wouldn't be a good idea to provoke a retaliatory measure from another Yonkou. And since even though Caesar Clown was making SMILE and whatnot at the time, he was technically working for Big Mom officially, so they had no reason to think that bringing his ass back to Totland would have more far-reaching consequences. Just wonder what Caesar's going to do now…probably go directly to Kaido since that'll be the one who can offer him the best protection and will give him the most reward for his service (since he was using Doflamingo as his broker even though the product was coming from Caesar; cut out the middleman angle and Caesar reaps all the benefits).

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                                                                                                • Seafarer33
                                                                                                  Seafarer33 @BattleFranky69
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                                                                                                  @BattleFranky69:

                                                                                                  Just wonder what Caesar's going to do now…probably go directly to Kaido since that'll be the one who can offer him the best protection and will give him the most reward for his service (since he was using Doflamingo as his broker even though the product was coming from Caesar; cut out the middleman angle and Caesar reaps all the benefits).

                                                                                                  I agree on Caesar looking for a protector if he makes it off of Tottoland, however about this last part it seems to me Doffy was more than just a salesman. Caesar did produce the SADS and there can be no Smiles without it, but until proven otherwise the dwarves' gardening talent on Dressrosa was just as important in the process of growing the actual fruits. So I'm not sure Caesar on his own will be able to create another artificial Devil Fruit in the near future.
                                                                                                  Also, after failing both to secure his Smiles trade and retrieve Doflamingo, Kaido may just ignore anything he's being offered and vent his anger on the first person unfortunate enough to bring up that touchy subject. Is Caesar bold enough to risk that?

                                                                                                  Proposing his services as a manufacturer of weapons of mass destruction, on the other hand, still sounds like a valid approach - although the Punk Hazard events may have burned his reputation on that front.

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                                                                                                    allbluebro @Blissed
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                                                                                                    @Blissed:

                                                                                                    I don't get what you're trying to say here.

                                                                                                    We'll see what happens. All I know is that there's no trick or anything, it definitely got directly hit.

                                                                                                    Law used room and switched it with anither ship

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                                                                                                      I honestly just want to know how the hell the Sunny's okay or not okay because even after we assume it got hit, I can't even think of anything that can follow, good or bad

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                                                                                                      • MrPecans
                                                                                                        MrPecans @keekoishere
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                                                                                                        spiral

                                                                                                        @keekoishere:

                                                                                                        I honestly just want to know how the hell the Sunny's okay or not okay because even after we assume it got hit, I can't even think of anything that can follow, good or bad

                                                                                                        It’s truly a great cliffhanger, in this way. Honestly since reading it weekly (circa return to Saboady), this has been one of my favorite times to be reading. I feel extra into OP right now, and this break is helping.

                                                                                                        Favorite thing aside from One Piece is movies! Updated favorite films: The Passion of Joan of Arc / Alien / It's a Wonderful Life / Casablanca / One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest / The Apartment / Nights of Cabiria / Dr. Strangelove / All About Eve / Amadeus / Man Who Shot Liberty Valance

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