Arlong Park Forums

    • Register
    • Login
    • Search
    • Categories
    • Recent
    • Tags
    • Users
    • Groups

    Chapter 902: End Roll

    Past Chapter Discussions
    144
    499
    135987
    Loading More Posts
    • Oldest to Newest
    • Newest to Oldest
    • Most Votes
    Reply
    • Reply as topic
    Log in to reply
    This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
    • Icefae
      Icefae
      last edited by
      Icefae
      spiral
      Icefae
      spiral

      There aren't plotholes as much as there are total fucking asspulls that ruin the stakes of the arc. I do agree that it fits nicely in the narrative though (it's important for us to have fought a yonkou before kaidou and I like most of the new characters unveiled in this arc that are sure to return). And even though the last half was total dogshit to me I still think it's the best New World arc.

      –- Update From New Post Merge ---

      "plotholes" are a tough sell in a story as ridiculous as one piece. But you're fooling yourself if you think that WCI has problems that were present in previous arcs. In many ways WCI was a new low.

      Bigivel 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • Nilitch
        Nilitch @Maju
        @Maju last edited by
        Nilitch
        spiral
        Nilitch
        spiral

        @Maju:

        -While she is trying the dress,pudding tells tamago that she "has to go somewhere else"…but since we now know that pudding is evil and never wanted to meet with the strawhats because it was all a trap,where did she want to go exactly? It was just a swerve trying to trick the reader but makes no goddamn sense when you know that it was a trap all along.

        This here can work as a plothole. The other things you've said are just stupid writings though.

        There is also the fact that they're going away from WholeCakeIsland without giving a single crap about Zeff which life is threatened by BIG MOM. Just that.
        And basically the only reason why this arc had been triggered in the first place. Sanji was scared for Zeff's life and thought he had no choice but to follow Capone.

        Even though with Sanji and Caeser, they had the sufficient fire power to fight Capone… And the minks, although hurt, could still annihilate Capone's face. Nekomamushi showed up and Sanji went all "omg no, NO HELP FFS !!!!! death.wish "

        Every nation gets the government it deserves.–-- Joseph de Maistre

        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • B
          Blissed
          last edited by
          B
          spiral
          Blissed
          spiral

          How the Zeff thing is still an issue when that was resolved by Oda months ago is beyond me…

          B 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • Sick_Fool
            Sick_Fool @Redx
            @Redx last edited by
            Sick_Fool
            spiral
            Sick_Fool
            spiral

            @Redx:

            Or for all we know a bunch of people just have poor reading comprehension. Or the translations suck which can lead to confusion. Placing the blame on the character or the author is unfounded imo.

            I find it slightly funny to read a claim that there is supposedly "a ton" of conversations surrounding Katakuri's character when I can literally count the number of people who dislike Katakuri versus the vast majority of the fanbase who actually declares him as the best post-timeskip character, hell, even one of the best characters in the entire series.

            "Yes, I'm only bones, but that's because I have an interest… in dieting."

            -Gentleman Skeleton Brook

            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • A
              AlphaMale
              last edited by
              A
              spiral
              AlphaMale
              spiral

              so sanji didn't beat any big mom pirates in this arc , huh

              Jabra sgamer82 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • Jabra
                Jabra @AlphaMale
                @AlphaMale last edited by
                Jabra
                spiral
                Jabra
                spiral

                @AlphaMale:

                so sanji didn't beat any big mom pirates in this arc , huh

                He beat Bobbins…

                But yeah, it's certainly weird that he didn't get any proper 1 vs. 1 against a Yonkou crew fighting with food.

                A G 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • theackwardstation
                  theackwardstation @Maju
                  @Maju last edited by
                  theackwardstation
                  spiral
                  theackwardstation
                  spiral

                  @Maju:

                  luffy trusts sanji,in fact he trusts each of his nakama.remember what happened when he read sanji's note left on zhou..he was completely relaxed because "sanji said he will come back"
                  sanji could have kept his facade saying that he was gonnasolve this one himself and luffy would have trusted him..and even if he doesn't, it's still a better approach than to try and beat up your own captain..sanji knows better than everyone else that that's not how luffy works.

                  If Luffy would just let Sanji resolve everything alone under the hypothetical Sanji's statement "I'm gonna solve it myself", Luffy wouldn't have gone to WCI in the first place, since, as you mentioned, Sanji had already claimed that he would come back. Not that Luffy doesn't trust his underlings, but Luffy is also someone that slips in the problems of others, he makes people ask for help, he does for them what they are not asking for. So yea, I completely understand Sanji's resoning.

                  And it's exactly because Sanji knows Luffy so well that he did the same thing that Usopp did in Water 7 (even worse), so Luffy wouldn't have the right to demand him back to the crew without Sanji's apologies first. Luffy would have to leave WCI, just as Nami was inclined to do.

                  I fail to see how intercepting a ship at sea and sinking it is less practical than fighting them on land, on your own HQ,where they can, you know, fight with their fists instead of with their ship.
                  And that's without considering the fact that they were literally the only people that could make the plan fail,and she allows them to go as near as sanji as it's possible without actually making them meet..and for no reason.
                  an that's without counting the fact that since they knew where they were since cacao island and pekoms got kidnapped by bege, they could have took possession of the ship and luffy would have been stuck on cacao island anyway.
                  it would make sense if big mom was depicted as a stupid individual,but she is many things, and stupid it's not one of those.

                  It's not that trapping the Strawhats inside her territory is the only possible strategy, but it is a valid one. If she sends ships, couldn't they just abort mission and leave? Isn't it harder to escape if the foe is in the middle of the spider web instead of approaching the web? Even if the foe can struggle like a cornered rat, they will fall anyway, just like Luffy was in fact captured by the enraged army after defeating a Sweet Commander. That's how it works. And then it took help after help, miracle after miracle, to escape from the web.

                  And it's not only militar strategy that I'm accounting for (since One Piece is not about that)… but flavor. Big Mom is like a villain from a fable, she's the witch from Hansel and Gretel, and she seduces her preys with lies and sweets (that's what the seducing woods stand for).

                  she is in on the plan for killing germa,the plan includes the marriage and the marriage needs the dress…there's literally no place where she could have wanted to go so much to not try the dress..imagine if she goes away and the marriage can't take place beause she doesn't have a dress because she went in some random place for no particular reason that we know of.

                  It's not like Pudding needs to choose the dress NOW. Honestly, this is only a matter of good will towards such a banal plot device. Any mistery fiction is written for the perception of the reader, not only for the characters that are being fooled, so it's really okay to have Pudding saying something that the readers will interpret as A, but she's actually thinking of B. Why would she need to go elsewhere? Maybe Big Mom called her to the castle (that actually happened) and she's the kind of boss you have to stop anything you're doind to attend to (I had one like that, lol) or maybe she just needed some time alone in the toilette. Maybe she was supposed to be at Seducing Woods to keep misleading the Strawhats just for the sake of it (flavour), afterall she even went out of her way to tell them the truth when they were trapped in Mont d'Or's book (that's what villains do! flavour once again). Anything works, really.

                  it would make sense if the other races were all standardized..but we saw humans with horns,strange shapes and pretty much whatever feature you can imagine..and yet it's that third eye that makes an attractive young lady a monster. And big mom, the woman that is all about diversity and acceptance calls her a monster despite the fact that she probably had sex with a 3 eyes guy exactly because she wanted a daughter of that lineage.

                  Big Mom is the personafication of human's contradictions, something very real. She has a suplerfluous idealization of things that she doesn't care at heart. She wants to make her children giants to look at them eye to eye at a dinner table, but she doesn't even care to know if her kids want to become giants or if they are bullied. She loves the living creatures she collects, but she slaves them inside a book. She wants a world where every race can coexist in peace, but she has no particular interest in them besides her own pride of saying she's such an open minded person that is following the dreams of Mother Carmel. As Big Mom describes herself in her Bad End Musical, she's like a "devil"… but a devil that's following the path of someone with good intentions (supposedly), so it's a warped reality full of contradictions.

                  Big Mom insulting Pudding because of her third eye is character construction, not a writing flaw.

                  So we're in this warped world called Totland and it's coherent that many of the children suffered abuse, like shown many times, not only regarding Pudding. And I repeat, she stands out because she's the only one of her kind. Who knows who are the horned people or if they are a clan or if they were bullied when they were kids too.

                  her context is that she thought that sanji was a little naive piece of shit,but he likes her third eye so she loves him now…it's not even gradual,it's not even like he liked the guy before,she was enjoying her time thinking about killing him.

                  Before I start going deeper in this SanPu relationship, I have one important disclaimer: Oda avoids making something more realistic out of a romantic relationship, so it'll be a little whacky to match the overall tone of this series. By the way, one of my few complaints to the last section of this arc is the lack of insight in the dynamics between Sanji and Pudding, that were reduced to the repetition of the same two jokes… unfortunate. But I get that Oda wasn't confortable showing something actually serious there. That said, let's understand what happened.

                  First we need to understand Pudding and she's a very conflicted girl. And I say that because, even before the wedding, Pudding was showing a duality in her character, and not because she was pretending to be a good person. Chapter 848 gives us a little insight on how uncorfortable she was with her reality as a puppet and even how she was jealous of Lola's free spirit, so that scene was the preparation for her final twist. However, Pudding was too used to the way she found to live her life without troubles, since becoming a bad person was what made her deal with her bullying (her vengeance to her bullies), hiding her third eye made her popular (Cocoa Town loves her) and then her acting skills made her one of Big Mom's favorite children. So Pudding was living a facade.

                  For all these reasons, Pudding was never truly open to like Sanji back, since he was supposed to die by her hands anyways. Above all, Sanji was romantically cheesy when he was dating her fake persona, so she could not take his affection to heart, because that was not her, but her role as an actress. However, when Sanji complimented her third eye, that was when she was showing her "true" colors (her malice), so that's the first time he was addressing her for what she perceived as her identity, and everything that happened before between the two had to be recontextualized in her head. Of course, it was also the first time that someone remarked that her third eye was actually beautiful. So yeah, that was different from before and something special to her. Also, we have to take into account what chapter 902 clarified even further, that Pudding was very self conscious about being a monster, so that was always disturbing her interactions with Sanji.

                  It's also important to note that Pudding didn't fall in love for Sanji immeadiately after showing him her third eye. That was the trigger and everything after it was gradual. In their very next scene, she was still trying to kill Sanji, although a little shocked now because her internal duality was all over the place in her mind. Then, we had a little nice snippet of Pudding witnessing Sanji rescuing Nami in his arms and she got jealous. That was the start of everything. And then, along their journay together to bake the cake, she could see his cool side in all its glory and keep falling in love for Sanji. In all honesty, Sanji can be very charming.

                  it might not be as important as the other i said before but still doesn't make much sense considering how capricious we know big mom is..yeah there was a tea party but she could have served whatever sweet she wanted, it didn't have to be that specific cake,and yet she waited for days, despite having a big history of going crazy if she doesn't eat what she wants immediately,for really no reason.

                  She was crazy for a wedding cake because there was a wedding. When you have a wedding, the most famous treat is the cake. One justify the other and create the meaning that garnishes the taste that she was craving for during the Tea Party. It's not like she'll be crazy about a wedding cake at any day of the week. In fact, as we've seen, her tantrum three days ago was for a croquembuche, something unrelated.

                  And she got to keep her shit together and waited for the cake. She can do that as long as she knows she will get at she wants after such a delicious wait.

                  –- Update From New Post Merge ---

                  @Icefae:

                  There aren't plotholes as much as there are total fucking asspulls that ruin the stakes of the arc. I do agree that it fits nicely in the narrative though (it's important for us to have fought a yonkou before kaidou and I like most of the new characters unveiled in this arc that are sure to return). And even though the last half was total dogshit to me I still think it's the best New World arc.

                  –- Update From New Post Merge ---

                  "plotholes" are a tough sell in a story as ridiculous as one piece. But you're fooling yourself if you think that WCI has problems that were present in previous arcs. In many ways WCI was a new low.

                  Thanks for the insightful remark.

                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • sgamer82
                    sgamer82 @AlphaMale
                    @AlphaMale last edited by
                    sgamer82
                    spiral
                    sgamer82
                    spiral

                    @AlphaMale:

                    so sanji didn't beat any big mom pirates in this arc , huh

                    You say that like it's relevant. More seriously, this arc was never about Sanji's fighting prowess. We already knew he had that. This was Sanji's version of what Usopp went through in Enies Lobby. To quote a post I made on another board a while back:

                    I don't think this was ever about Sanji's abilities as a fighter. We already knew he was a fighter and a tough one at that.

                    This is like Enies Lobby and Usopp. If it was just about him fighting he'd have taken down a member of CP9 and that'd be that. His development was centered on emphasizing the skills he had besides combat and why they're important after sending him to rock bottom. His critical moments were his Tower of Justice sniping, gaining the giants as allies, and pumping up Luffy for the final blow on Lucci.

                    As far as that goes, Sanji led the charge to recreate in a single night a cake that had taken weeks (?) originally, recreating the recipe perfectly and improving on it when the only exposure he'd had to it prior was the Tea Party, and it sent Big Mom into sugar Nirvana.

                    Their success post-Tea Party can be traced to his successfully wooing Pudding. He blew the mind of the girl who had the night before been gleefully preparing to blow his brains out.

                    And all that came about because, as much as he probably wanted to, he simply couldn't leave people in a lurch, even if he despised the majority of them.

                    Sanji isn't some gruff dude with firey kicks. He's a chef, a Casanova of varying success, and beneath that gruffness a kind person who won't leave someone close to him hanging if he can help it, even if it would be preferable, even smarter, to do so.

                    That is what this arc has emphasized about Sanji to me.

                    Regarding the various plot issues being discussed, the only one I have a response to is Big Mom letting Luffy so far into her territory instead of taking him out faster. There is a very simple reason she didn't take more serious steps to nullify the threat Luffy represented: Big Mom didn't view Luffy as a threat.

                    Several of the Big Mom pirates' missteps this arc can be traced to this fact. They didn't regard Luffy as a threat until it was far too late to do anything but damage control.

                    Waldorf: You know Statler, after watching the last one thousand episodes of One Piece, I think I've come to a conclusion.

                    Statler: No you haven't.

                    Both: DOHOHOHOHOHO!

                    Icefae Razh 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • Bigivel
                      Bigivel @Redx
                      @Redx last edited by
                      Bigivel
                      spiral
                      Bigivel
                      spiral

                      @Redx:

                      No it wasn't. That scene had nothing to do with honor. It was about Pride. Katakuri had been trying to kill the man for hours then only managed to land a shot with help from his little sister. Of course he'd take it personally.

                      Or for all we know a bunch of people just have poor reading comprehension. Or the translations suck which can lead to confusion. Placing the blame on the character or the author is unfounded imo.

                      –- Update From New Post Merge ---

                      ^Pretty much this.

                      Years down the line when One Piece is completed the people who are gonna be able to read One Piece in one go are gonna find this arc amazing.

                      Did he tried to kill him? Because that is not what I saw? You have a lot of moments where Luffy is down, or captured in Mochi, and Katakuri waits for Luffy next action. How do you know that it was a lot of time? Because you get the special effects of prolongated silence, and the panels show Katakuri in waiting. Also you see Luffy getting up, slowly, without interference and then he(Luffy) makes the move that restarts the fight.
                      So, unless I don't know what it looks like when somebody is trying to kill someone, the last thing Katakuri was trying to do was killing Luffy.

                      Only managed to land a shot with the help from his little sister? Wow, did all the other hits that he landed was my imagination? And Katakuri even asked for Luffy to Stay Down, was Luffy down because of what? I thought it was due to the hits Katakuri landed that knocked him down, but it seems it wasn't. And Flambé laughing because Luffy was getting knocked down and getting everytime up, wasn't for the same reason?
                      And here I thought Luffy was getting auto phoenix downs out of his a**, but after all nothing like that happened.

                      About the pride and honor thing. They aren't mutually exclusive, in fact most of the time they are related and even sometimes used as synonym, this is one of the casees.
                      Honour, meaning the morally right thing for him to do.(It wasn't)
                      Pride, is dignity. Being that dignity the right thing to do. Though, you could say that this is only in a personal level, it makes little sense that Katakuri went into the chase and cared about his family, and it was never showed he was one person that only cared about fights, in fact it was never shown that he cared about fights at all, not even during the fight, but out of nowhere he is the type of character that only cares about them. Though supposedly he still cares about the rest. So what it is? It can't be both. Because like I said what he did was an act of High Treason and direct harm to his family and his crew and of potentially further harm to them. Like it was shown with Brulee, captured by Pekoms, and Raisin kicked by Sanji, and other events.

                      In this case his Pride and Honour couldn't in any way be a "fair fight". The problem even goes deeper than just not being fair, because what Flampe did wasn't making the fight unfair. Context matters, and that is why you and nobody thought that when Luffy came out of the mirror with Pekoms and Brulleé that all those Big Mom Pirates attacking them was unfair. Even when it was dozens of them attacking from all sides and at the same time. Nor when Katakuri, PerosPero and all the other soldiers in the ship and the mutiple tarts ships ambushed the Strawhats(and note that was Katakuri plan, and he knew they were already being chased by Big Mom and a specialized squad). In fact there were people that were saying that they should had destroyed the ship, and it didn't make much sense not doing it.

                      People love to complain about something being formulaic, but they love to take the formulas/patterns. The Katakuri thing with Luffy was a frequent battle manga honor/pride formula in a 1vs1 fight(in fact happens more in tournament/decided type fights). When they saw that formula it was faster than light to take the rationale that it was about that. Though given how badly executed(a.k.a forced) the formula was, in fact showed the oppositte. Katakuri in doing what he did, left behind all of his pride, dignity and honour. Everything, because of a "equal fight".

                      –- Update From New Post Merge ---

                      @Blissed:

                      How the Zeff thing is still an issue when that was resolved by Oda months ago is beyond me…

                      Resolved? How. Montgh ago Reiju said to Sanji that if he ran away and let Big Mom kill the Germa and take their research that she almost certainly wouldn't remember about Zeff(note how is just probably).

                      Did you noticed that she didn't get to kill the Germa nor get the research right, and in fact they destroyed the Tea Party, tried to kill here and almost killed everybody else in the Party. Right?
                      If Big Mom is the kind of person to kill people relatives just because they didn't appeared in the wedding, what do you think she does to people that do what they did?

                      Obviously, the issue of Zeff isn't at all resolved. Let's see if Oda forget that the issue wasn't even resolved, or if he handle it.

                      B 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • Icefae
                        Icefae @sgamer82
                        @sgamer82 last edited by
                        Icefae
                        spiral
                        Icefae
                        spiral

                        @sgamer82:

                        You say that like it's relevant. More seriously, this arc was never about Sanji's fighting prowess. We already knew he had that. This was Sanji's version of what Usopp went through in Enies Lobby. To quote a post I made on another board a while back:

                        Regarding the various plot issues being discussed, the only one I have a response to is Big Mom letting Luffy so far into her territory instead of taking him out faster. There is a very simple reason she didn't take more serious steps to nullify the threat Luffy represented: Big Mom didn't view Luffy as a threat.

                        Several of the Big Mom pirates' missteps this arc can be traced to this fact. They didn't regard Luffy as a threat until it was far too late to do anything but damage control.

                        I don't think people would be upset that Sanji didn't have a fight this arc had Oda not written the Vinsmokes to deliberately think that they were stronger than him and even manage to kick his ass while he couldn't fight back. He had a fight with Judge wherein Judge cheated, and that, at least to me, seemed to imply that Sanji would eventually prove to the Germa that he was as strong as any of them without the Raid Suit.

                        It's cool that the narrative stresses that Sanji is a cook who will find the joy in everyone. But Sanji is actually way more than that. He's also a cunning super loner spy who outwits enemies and secures escape routes, and also still one of the main fighters on their crew. He still might get that moment with Germa in the future but I'd be surprised if their relationship ever took center stage the way it did here.

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • R
                          Redx @Maju
                          @Maju last edited by
                          R
                          spiral
                          Redx
                          spiral

                          @Maju:

                          the plotholes and people acting out of character or not using reason don't get solved if you binge-read

                          Most of which was summed up here.

                          –- Update From New Post Merge ---

                          @Maju:

                          -why a glutton like big mom would wait so much to eat her precious wedding cake when there was not going to be a wedding in the first place? it would have made sense if the cerimony was actually real,but since she was not she was free to eat the cake whenever she wanted.

                          It should be rather obvious that the actual purpose of the Tea Party is Big Mom's desperate attempt to replicate and relive the "best day of her life". It adds to just how damaged she is as a person.

                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • Razh
                            Razh @sgamer82
                            @sgamer82 last edited by
                            Razh
                            spiral
                            Razh
                            spiral

                            @sgamer82:

                            You say that like it's relevant. More seriously, this arc was never about Sanji's fighting prowess. We already knew he had that. This was Sanji's version of what Usopp went through in Enies Lobby.

                            How is one of monster trio not having a serious fight for 4 arcs already not relevant?

                            We know Sanji can fight, but do we know how he scales against Yonkou crew top dogs? He seems to be lacking in that department. Oda didn't do the character any favors this arc. Oh sure, the arc wasn't about Sanji's fights, but most of the problems in OP are resolved with fighting. Sanji tried to resolve the issue with his cooking skills, but his cooking skills only postponed the fighting. It all comes down to fights in the end, and when one of the main characters isn't pulling his weight in the fighting department, he starts to fade away slowly, if only a little.

                            This arc had a gigantic collection of various enemies and Sanji only took out one of them. One who was evidently a lot weaker than him. After dodging candy, fracturing Oven's collarbone and holding the cake in the air with his kicks, he ends up having to rely on his modified brothers.

                            Who he then leaves behind without thinking much about it.

                            I wonder how Oda will resolve Sanji's past. There are still things to be said about the whole thing. We haven't seen the entire flashback. But I got sidetracked.

                            What do you guys think about the possibility of BM and Germa ending up working together. Judge could threaten with self-destruction or something like that, which could ruin BM's dream of creating giant soldiers. Elbaf arc could have a lot higher stakes if it was under attack by both BM and Germa. And it would be a nice way to resolve most of the loose ends brought by this arc.

                            Originally Posted by Outerspec

                            Trying to understand Bleach is like trying to drink a bottle of bleach.

                            It makes no sense and you'll be dead before you're finished.

                            sgamer82 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • B
                              Blissed @Bigivel
                              @Bigivel last edited by
                              B
                              spiral
                              Blissed
                              spiral

                              @Bigivel:

                              Resolved? How. Montgh ago Reiju said to Sanji that if he ran away and let Big Mom kill the Germa and take their research that she almost certainly wouldn't remember about Zeff(note how is just probably).

                              Did you noticed that she didn't get to kill the Germa nor get the research right, and in fact they destroyed the Tea Party, tried to kill here and almost killed everybody else in the Party. Right?
                              If Big Mom is the kind of person to kill people relatives just because they didn't appeared in the wedding, what do you think she does to people that do what they did?

                              Obviously, the issue of Zeff isn't at all resolved. Let's see if Oda forget that the issue wasn't even resolved, or if he handle it.

                              Resolved in the sense that, as you said, Reiju straight up told him that Big Mom doesn't really care (a difference compared to simply forgetting) about him. So right there, that already signals to people to stop worrying about it.

                              And before that, even if it ended up becoming a genuine issue later on, she explicitly told Sanji not to worry about the Baratie, to focus on successfully escaping first. This was essentially a response to those thinking that Big Mom had to be defeated or be on good terms with the Straw Hats by the end of the arc in order to guarantee Zeff's safety.

                              So when I say it's been resolved, I mean to say that this is in no way a plothole, as I've kept seeing people say for months now. No, Big Mom does not to need to be on good terms with them, nor does she need to straight up say that Zeff will not be harmed.

                              Even if one was insistent that that this is not good enough, off the top of my head there are several solutions Oda could use, the simplest one being that she almost assuredly has bigger targets on her mind, such as Fishman Island for example. Regardless, Oda did not forget anything here.

                              H Kdom 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • sgamer82
                                sgamer82 @Razh
                                @Razh last edited by
                                sgamer82
                                spiral
                                sgamer82
                                spiral

                                @Razh:

                                How is one of monster trio not having a serious fight for 4 arcs already not relevant?

                                Because I wasn't really thinking of any of the prior arcs at the time.

                                Even so, I'm not sure that changes my mind that Sanji's fighting ability is not nor never was the point of this arc in terms of his development.

                                Whatever flaws this arc may or may not have had I don't really consider Sanji not getting a fight to be one of them.

                                Waldorf: You know Statler, after watching the last one thousand episodes of One Piece, I think I've come to a conclusion.

                                Statler: No you haven't.

                                Both: DOHOHOHOHOHO!

                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • R
                                  Redx
                                  last edited by
                                  R
                                  spiral
                                  Redx
                                  spiral

                                  @Bigivel:

                                  Did he tried to kill him?

                                  Yes. It was a life or death battle. It was the entire reason they were fighting. lol.

                                  Only managed to land a shot with the help from his little sister?

                                  He only managed to land a truly lethal blow because of Flampe.

                                  –- Update From New Post Merge ---

                                  @Bigivel:

                                  most of the time they are related and even sometimes used as synonym, this is one of the casees.

                                  It's not.

                                  Honour, meaning the morally right thing for him to do.

                                  Honor has nothing to do with "the right thing".

                                  Pride, is dignity. Being that dignity the right thing to do.

                                  Dignity isn't "the right thing to do" either.

                                  and it was never showed he was one person that only cared about fights,

                                  No one claimed that. Having pride in his strength and "only caring about fights" are two different things.

                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • theackwardstation
                                    theackwardstation
                                    last edited by
                                    theackwardstation
                                    spiral
                                    theackwardstation
                                    spiral

                                    The problem with giving Sanji a fight in this arc is the lack of a proper circunstance. Sure, Oda could write the story differently, but look at what he had to do for Luffy vs Katakuri to happen, basically putting them in another dimension where they could do a 1v1. As for Sanji, there were always too many obstacles, too many enemies, too much of a rush for him to just go out against an someone in particular in a fight that shouldn't end with a OHKO.

                                    Also, I must agree with sgamer82 that a fight could get in the way of what was Oda's intention for the character in this story arc. It's much easier to understand what the "year of Sanji" is all about if it's not overshadowed by what the fandom wants the most, a fight just for the sake of it, just to make him look good.

                                    Next arc Sanji will be wearing black again and that's when he will get a fight, because it's not about him anymore, but about the Strawhats overcoming enemies in a full-fledged war.

                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • Bigivel
                                      Bigivel @Icefae
                                      @Icefae last edited by
                                      Bigivel
                                      spiral
                                      Bigivel
                                      spiral

                                      @Icefae:

                                      There aren't plotholes as much as there are total fucking asspulls that ruin the stakes of the arc. I do agree that it fits nicely in the narrative though (it's important for us to have fought a yonkou before kaidou and I like most of the new characters unveiled in this arc that are sure to return). And even though the last half was total dogshit to me I still think it's the best New World arc.

                                      –- Update From New Post Merge ---

                                      "plotholes" are a tough sell in a story as ridiculous as one piece. But you're fooling yourself if you think that WCI has problems that were present in previous arcs. In many ways WCI was a new low.

                                      Plotholes aren't hard in a story like One Piece. It doesn't matter how ridiculous a story is. A Story, fiction or non fiction has a set of rules, explicit made by the author, and implicit by the author omission(everything that is not told by the author, is assumed to be like the real world until he make it explicit that is something else). So basically if Oda makes some kind of contradiction to the set rules, it becomes automatically a plothole, not mattering how ridicule the story his. The only way I see a story not having plotholes, or hard to have them is if the author goes with a rule like "anything goes". But that is basically making a random story. In fact I can't say if you could call that a story. Even such random stuff like Bobobo-bobo-bo-bobo and Excel Saga had rules that were followed.

                                      For me this arc is rather strange. It has a ton of the highest points ever seen in the series, but it has also a ton of the biggest lows seen.
                                      The middle of the arc was in the direction of bad, with ton of nonsencical stuff. Mainly because Oda tried to make the Red Herring of Pudding, but he executed it horribly, and made the error of "faking to the audience", one of the biggest mistakes an author can make when trying such a thing. Then Big Mom personality treatment, so many opposite signals, and the epic failure of Bobbin treatment, …
                                      Then the last part, from the 100% evasion skill from the Strawhats(or the 0% hit accuracy of big mom), the Zeus stuff, the Katakuri nonsense, and the strange mega niglegence of the family; Highly strange, the chase started with an amazing coordenation and strategy, but it rapidly devolved to the worse use of people ever seen(lie, there are other manga like Naruto, that do it way worse).
                                      The way it started and the Wedding part was amazing though, and even when there was the bad parts, Oda kept all the rest stellar, still it spoiled it.

                                      I don't think is the best New World arc, but I would give this arc a 8 or 7. Not being higher due to the problems.

                                      --- Update From New Post Merge ---

                                      @Redx:

                                      Yes. It was a life or death battle. It was the entire reason they were fighting. lol.

                                      He only managed to land a truly lethal blow because of Flampe.

                                      –- Update From New Post Merge ---

                                      It's not.

                                      Honor has nothing to do with "the right thing".

                                      Dignity isn't "the right thing to do" either.

                                      No one claimed that. Having pride in his strength and "only caring about fights" are two different things.

                                      Again, how was a life or death battle, if Katakuri did everything to not kill Luffy? Note that while the context is a Life or Death battle(not really, Capturing Luffy would also be a success to Katakuri and the family), it doesn't make it so. The actions were anything except a life or death battle(is like Sword Art Online first part problem, while the premise was them stuck in a life or death game, it had nothing to do with it).

                                      Are you telling me that the blow was "Truly lethal", I'm must have a wrong understanding of what lethal means, but Luffy got hours of beating after that(One Chapter is literally 2 hours of fighting) and kept going, and even transformed into Gear Fourth Snakeman where kept getting pounded. And you're telling me that the attack was "truly lethal"?

                                      It is the case.

                                      Is not "The right thing", but the right thing for him. Meaning if he is duty bound to kill/protect somebody, even if that is "wrong", his honor is achieving that, and so that objective is "the right thing for him".

                                      Dignity doesn't have to be "the right thing to do", but normally his "personal right thing". And so it normally connected with Honour.

                                      What has "having pride in his strength" as anything to do with hurting himself, knocking out his sister and crew and endangering and betraying the family? Are you saying that he only cared about his strength? And where was that ever shown. And so did he lost his pride when he lost against Luffy? Why was he smiling then in this chapter?
                                      Are you saying that in the middle of continuously beating Luffy, and of being worried about the Zombie act, and even thinking that he had to end Luffy fast(even though still doing nothing to end him, and in fact doing the opposite), he forgot about everything that mattered in that situation and only remembered about "the pride of his strength", and didn't he thought Luffy was beneath him until just that moment? He clearly says that!(Even though Luffy didn't nothing to change the thinking).

                                      –- Update From New Post Merge ---

                                      @Blissed:

                                      Resolved in the sense that, as you said, Reiju straight up told him that Big Mom doesn't really care (a difference compared to simply forgetting) about him. So right there, that already signals to people to stop worrying about it.

                                      And before that, even if it ended up becoming a genuine issue later on, she explicitly told Sanji not to worry about the Baratie, to focus on successfully escaping first. This was essentially a response to those thinking that Big Mom had to be defeated or be on good terms with the Straw Hats by the end of the arc in order to guarantee Zeff's safety.

                                      So when I say it's been resolved, I mean to say that this is in no way a plothole, as I've kept seeing people say for months now. No, Big Mom does not to need to be on good terms with them, nor does she need to straight up say that Zeff will not be harmed.

                                      Even if one was insistent that that this is not good enough, off the top of my head there are several solutions Oda could use, the simplest one being that she almost assuredly has bigger targets on her mind, such as Fishman Island for example. Regardless, Oda did not forget anything here.

                                      Is not a plot hole, but it really seems like Oda forgot about it. Or Sanji just magically totally forgot the main reason why he was going to marry Pudding.
                                      Note, is not that Big Mom didn't cared. She cared, it was her that found about Zeff. Is that what she wanted was the Germa 66, not the marriage. So if she got everything that she wanted, it makes sense that she wouldn't do the extra effort of going to kill Zeff, because Sanji fled the Wedding. Though, given what was told previously of Big Mom, and directly to Sanji, he shouldn't believe Reiju. Remember, Big Mom sends the head of someone dear, if you miss a Tea Party. Sanji would be missing one.

                                      Now, Sanji didn't miss a Tea Party, he did something worse, he destroyed one, and during that Tried to Kill Big Mom and her family. How it didn't came to his head that Zeff is still in danger is suprising.

                                      Now, Oda placed himself in a corner here, but it still not to late to get out of it. Though, the not so good writing is something that he can't escape(he took to much time to deal with that point, and so him being in a corner). But we'll see if he handles this or just forgets.

                                      theackwardstation T 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • theackwardstation
                                        theackwardstation @Bigivel
                                        @Bigivel last edited by
                                        theackwardstation
                                        spiral
                                        theackwardstation
                                        spiral

                                        @Bigivel:

                                        Is not a plot hole, but it really seems like Oda forgot about it. Or Sanji just magically totally forgot the main reason why he was going to marry Pudding.
                                        Note, is not that Big Mom didn't cared. She cared, it was here that found about Zeff to blackmail. Is that what she wanted was the Germa 66, not the marriage. So if she everything that she wanted, it makes sense that she wouldn't do the extra effort of going to kill Zeff, because Sanji fled the Wedding. Though, but what was told previously of Big Mom, and directly to Sanji, he shouldn't believe Reiju. Remember, Big Mom sends the head of someone dear, if you miss a Tea Party. Sanji would be missing one.

                                        Now, Sanji didn't miss a Tea Party, he did something worse, he destroyed one, and during that Tried to Kill Big Mom and her family. How it didn't came to his head that Zeff is in danger yet, is suprising.

                                        Now, Oda placed himself in a corner here, but it still not to late to get out of it. Though, the not so good writing is something that he can't escape(he took to much time to deal with that point, and so him being in a corner). But we'll see if he handles this or just forgets.

                                        Let's not forget that Big Mom has plenty of heads in her hands right now, so maybe she doesn't need to threaten Zeff's life if she can do it by using the Vinsmokes (that she doesn't know that have a complicated relationship with Sanji) and maybe the Sun Pirates (in case they were truly captured). Is it enough?

                                        However, since her rage is directed to the Strawhat Pirates as a whole, if we want go to the route that Big Mom should kill everyone for the sake of revenge, I'd say every dear character in their lives should be endangered by this same threat, but that's too over the top.

                                        What I think is most "logical" route is that she'll try to kill the Strawhats themselves. Big Mom beheads people's friends/family only because she won't kill the guest that she's inviting to her Tea Party. However, actual enemies must have a different treatment, a more direct one, to take them down without the need of detours.

                                        –- Update From New Post Merge ---

                                        Another hypothesis for Zeff's situation is whatever happens to the Big Mom Pirates after this arc. Pudding and Katakuri are clearly changed characters now and both have the power and influence to take some action regarding all these problems if they want to.

                                        Also, since Zeff is a threat only to Sanji in particular, it's possible that the cake could be a reason for Big Mom to forgive Zeff's life while she searches for revenge against the Strawhats in a fair fight.

                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • H
                                          Hedron @Blissed
                                          @Blissed last edited by
                                          H
                                          spiral
                                          Hedron
                                          spiral

                                          @Blissed:

                                          Resolved in the sense that, as you said, Reiju straight up told him that Big Mom doesn't really care (a difference compared to simply forgetting) about him. So right there, that already signals to people to stop worrying about it.

                                          So when I say it's been resolved, I mean to say that this is in no way a plothole, as I've kept seeing people say for months now. No, Big Mom does not to need to be on good terms with them, nor does she need to straight up say that Zeff will not be harmed.

                                          Even if one was insistent that that this is not good enough, off the top of my head there are several solutions Oda could use, the simplest one being that she almost assuredly has bigger targets on her mind, such as Fishman Island for example. Regardless, Oda did not forget anything here.

                                          Forgetting may not have been the right word but it is still a plot hole, it doesn't really matter if Oda tried to make that issue disappear or not…

                                          It doesn't make any sense storywise that the same woman who just sends assassins everywhere even when people do not show up at her parties would forget about Sanji, who even ruined the party.

                                          I agree that it could be fixed though, it is clear that BM pirates will have their hands full from now on, whether because someone attacks them or because they will make a move (more likely). So even a line from BM like: "I didn't forget about that, Sanji! As soon as I'm finished with whatever I'm doing I will take care of that!" (and then Luffy stomps her or something) would be enough to close that plot thread..
                                          Or if BM actually gets germa tecnology, it would make (almost) sense for her to forget about Sanji, and it would even be fitting with what Reiju said.

                                          And before that, even if it ended up becoming a genuine issue later on, she explicitly told Sanji not to worry about the Baratie, to focus on successfully escaping first. This was essentially a response to those thinking that Big Mom had to be defeated or be on good terms with the Straw Hats by the end of the arc in order to guarantee Zeff's safety.

                                          But it didn't become an issue later on, that's the problem.
                                          Reiju saying "think about that later" should mean exactly that, but then a few pages later she says "it doesn't matter anymore bacause BM doesn't care".

                                          Even if it technically isn't a loose end, it still is a major issue that faded into nothing.
                                          "She doesn't care anymore even if after all we've been shown so far she should".

                                          (Anyway, loose ends and a plot holes are not the same thing, that's probably the only reason why this discussion came up).

                                          EDIT:

                                          More importantly, has Big Mom actually ever shown direct interest in Baratie? It was mentioned by Reiju when she said BM wouldn't care about it, but right now I don't remember BM personally talking about it. I know it was the Germa who threatened Sanji to kill Zeff and that has been taken care of, mmm.
                                          That would still be an inconsistency because she should still send an hitman, but it wouldn't be so relevant since it wouldn't have been a factor which was directly addressed in the story. That would be just as bad as Big Mom not sending an hitman to kill Dadan or Kureha or Nojiko. I would be fine with that (if that's the case).

                                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • R
                                            Redx
                                            last edited by
                                            R
                                            spiral
                                            Redx
                                            spiral

                                            @Bigivel:

                                            Again, how was a life or death battle, if Katakuri did everything to not kill Luffy?

                                            He was trying to kill Luffy. That was his goal. He may not have done everything he could have to kill Luffy but thats only due to the fact that katakuri isn't excessive. He only does as much as necessary. Hence why he thought suffocating Luffy in a pile of Mochi would have sufficed even though he probably could have done more.

                                            And you're telling me that the attack was "truly lethal"?

                                            Stop overthinking things. I obviously meant that tearing off a piece of his torso is more lethal a blow than any he'd received uptil that point.

                                            It is the case.

                                            It's not. But the annoying semantics game we're playing isn't getting us anywhere.

                                            What has "having pride in his strength" as anything to do with hurting himself, knocking out his sister and crew and endangering and betraying the family?

                                            He didn't like the fact that he spent so many hours trying to and failing to kill the man who he originally saw as below him. So in his desire to fight on Luffy's level he injured himself. Not that complicated at all.

                                            Are you saying that he only cared about his strength?

                                            No.

                                            and didn't he thought Luffy was beneath him until just that moment? He clearly says that!(Even though Luffy didn't nothing to change the thinking).

                                            There was a clear transition in Katakuri's perspective over the course of the fight.

                                            https://orojackson.com/threads/a-manly-duel-the-problem-with-luffy-vs-katakuri.47732/page-2#post-2969333

                                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                            • desa
                                              desa @Maju
                                              @Maju last edited by
                                              desa
                                              spiral
                                              desa
                                              spiral

                                              @Maju:

                                              • sanji had no reason to attack luffy and try to burn bridges with himand nami when he could just explain the situation to them and tell them he would took care of the situation (like he did later trying to negotiate for their wellbeing. Instead oda neede some drama so made sanji act like he never saw anyone try to leave the crew ever.

                                              That was indeed weird and unneeded

                                              -big mom's plan to deal with the strawhats makes no goddamn sense. They are the only ones that can convince sanji not to marry, yet they allow them to go as far as whole cake island, even giving them a map, instead of just sending the fleet to deal with them at sea and sink them..or just blow up the sunny when it's harbored at cacao island trapping them on the island until the marriage is done.

                                              I guess she considered them eaiser to kill close to base rather than the border. I mean we saw how long it takes to leave the territory from Whole cake. She can send her best ressource witout them leaving the island and if it fails they can catch up to them easily rather them them successfully fleeing.

                                              I see the flaws in this thinking but I can also see reason to do so. Espicially someone like Big Mom that likes to make a show of everything.

                                              -While she is trying the dress,pudding tells tamago that she "has to go somewhere else"…but since we now know that pudding is evil and never wanted to meet with the strawhats because it was all a trap,where did she want to go exactly? It was just a swerve trying to trick the reader but makes no goddamn sense when you know that it was a trap all along.

                                              That is indeed ridiculous.

                                              -In a world where people have horns,various shapes and body features,an almost completely normal girl like pudding is bullied because of her third eye and even big mom calls her a monster for no real reason.Also she falls for sanji immediately for a shallow compliment he does..even with the attempt at slaavging this plot point with the last chapter, it still feels incredibly forced

                                              The biggest BS of the arc for me.

                                              -why a glutton like big mom would wait so much to eat her precious wedding cake when there was not going to be a wedding in the first place? it would have made sense if the cerimony was actually real,but since she was not she was free to eat the cake whenever she wanted.

                                              I totally disagree with this one. It disregards Big Mom personality in my opinion.

                                              Big Mom is a showwoman. She makes rain come when she is sending out her army.She makes musical for any little reason and filled hercoutry of living objects and food for her amusement. She devised a public marriage to kill the Vinsmokes.

                                              She would totally eat the cake while the Vinsmokes are being murdered because it makes it an attraction. The cake is the cherry on that makes the occasion so fun for her. She massacre the group then celebrate with a cake. we learned it was someone else idea of course it would be be strange. But Big Mom doesn't care that about her illness. The cake being prepared on the day she gets to kill the Vinsmokes and remind everyone she is the kind is as Big Mom as you can get. She isn't fasting until then. It's just another great meal she is looking forward to.

                                              H 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                              • H
                                                Hisoga @desa
                                                @desa last edited by
                                                H
                                                spiral
                                                Hisoga
                                                spiral

                                                @desa:

                                                The biggest BS of the arc for me.

                                                Biggest bullshit?
                                                i mean, i don't know your circumstances, but from my own personal experience, that kind of thing is normal in real life.
                                                i am a malay from Malaysia, where Malay, Chinese and India are the 3 majorities races live in harmony. I also a 1/4 chinese from my father side. You have know idea what people do to me when I grew up just because I have slanting eyes. Even though other than that, i have malay look. My father and uncle suffer even worse experiences than me. Different times I guest. But, that's life. Some people can find even tiniest detail just to make other suffer. Sometime I think, its up to you whether you can just ignore them and they will stop after realize that kind of thing doesn't bother you anymore.

                                                desa 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                • SirCaesar
                                                  SirCaesar @Maju
                                                  @Maju last edited by
                                                  SirCaesar
                                                  spiral
                                                  SirCaesar
                                                  spiral

                                                  @Maju:

                                                  • sanji had no reason to attack luffy and try to burn bridges with himand nami when he could just explain the situation to them and tell them he would took care of the situation (like he did later trying to negotiate for their wellbeing. Instead oda neede some drama so made sanji act like he never saw anyone try to leave the crew ever.

                                                  -big mom's plan to deal with the strawhats makes no goddamn sense. They are the only ones that can convince sanji not to marry, yet they allow them to go as far as whole cake island, even giving them a map, instead of just sending the fleet to deal with them at sea and sink them..or just blow up the sunny when it's harbored at cacao island trapping them on the island until the marriage is done.

                                                  -While she is trying the dress,pudding tells tamago that she "has to go somewhere else"…but since we now know that pudding is evil and never wanted to meet with the strawhats because it was all a trap,where did she want to go exactly? It was just a swerve trying to trick the reader but makes no goddamn sense when you know that it was a trap all along.

                                                  -In a world where people have horns,various shapes and body features,an almost completely normal girl like pudding is bullied because of her third eye and even big mom calls her a monster for no real reason.Also she falls for sanji immediately for a shallow compliment he does..even with the attempt at slaavging this plot point with the last chapter, it still feels incredibly forced

                                                  -why a glutton like big mom would wait so much to eat her precious wedding cake when there was not going to be a wedding in the first place? it would have made sense if the cerimony was actually real,but since she was not she was free to eat the cake whenever she wanted.

                                                  this are the first that comes to mind..but re-reading the arc i would probably found a couple more..the arc was entertaining at the beginning and at the ending..but the whole middle part is some incredibly bad writing for oda's standards

                                                  The Sunny is an amazing ship and it makes absolutely no sense to sink it when you are confident that you can kill the strawhats and take it. About Tamago, is it confirmed that every member of the Big Mom crew knew about the betrayal plan? Seems a bit weird…

                                                  Maju 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                  • RomanceDawn
                                                    RomanceDawn
                                                    last edited by
                                                    RomanceDawn
                                                    spiral
                                                    RomanceDawn
                                                    spiral

                                                    What if all those euphoric chemicals released in Big Mom's Brain due to the cake permanently cured Big Mom's eating sickness? How about that for a long term affect? Not sure if I'd be happy with that since I wanted Chopper to figure out whats wrong with her.

                                                    Also like I said in the Greg thread I want Jimbei to travel with Germa to the Reverie. Mostly cause I'm selfish and want to see him for the next 10ish chapters even if its just a little bit. Let him explore the land as some diplomat in disguise and let him think back to how he imagined Tiger scaling the Red Line and freeing slaves. We missed that flashback twice and I want it now! Let Jimbei talk to Vivi as well and she'll have him send back the message that is a secret to everyone.

                                                    Folks who read One Piece… Just better people. ¯\(ツ)/¯

                                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                    • Buggy D. Clown
                                                      Buggy D. Clown
                                                      last edited by
                                                      Buggy D. Clown
                                                      spiral
                                                      Buggy D. Clown
                                                      spiral

                                                      Break next week or is there a chapter?

                                                      One Piece ,\/,,

                                                      KageKageKing 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                      • desa
                                                        desa @Hisoga
                                                        @Hisoga last edited by
                                                        desa
                                                        spiral
                                                        desa
                                                        spiral

                                                        @Hisoga:

                                                        Biggest bullshit?
                                                        i mean, i don't know your circumstances, but from my own personal experience, that kind of thing is normal in real life.
                                                        i am a malay from Malaysia, where Malay, Chinese and India are the 3 majorities races live in harmony. I also a 1/4 chinese from my father side. You have know idea what people do to me when I grew up just because I have slanting eyes. Even though other than that, i have malay look. My father and uncle suffer even worse experiences than me. Different times I guest. But, that's life. Some people can find even tiniest detail just to make other suffer. Sometime I think, its up to you whether you can just ignore them and they will stop after realize that kind of thing doesn't bother you anymore.

                                                        Sanji not reacting to it at all if it is suppose to be such a surprising thing and Big Mom calling her a monster when she has numerous other children that are not fully human is what makes it BS. I don't see why Big Mom makes a difference between Merman and three-eyes and if it is a big thing in this universe Sanji an average citizen of this world should react to it or even Nami.

                                                        I respect your experience and if it helped you connect to that situation that's a good thing but for me it was a case where what the author is tellingdoesn't match the world he has set.

                                                        theackwardstation 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                        • theackwardstation
                                                          theackwardstation @desa
                                                          @desa last edited by
                                                          theackwardstation
                                                          spiral
                                                          theackwardstation
                                                          spiral

                                                          @desa:

                                                          Sanji not reacting to it at all if it is suppose to be such a surprising thing and Big Mom calling her a monster when she has numerous other children that are not fully human is what makes it BS. I don't see why Big Mom makes a difference between Merman and three-eyes and if it is a big thing in this universe Sanji an average citizen of this world should react to it or even Nami.

                                                          I respect your experience and if it helped you connect to that situation that's a good thing but for me it was a case where what the author is tellingdoesn't match the world he has set.

                                                          And who knows if Big Mom don't call Praline her stinky fish-girl? Btw, for all I know, Praline is one of the betrayers of her family, easily choosing the side of her husband.

                                                          desa 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                          • desa
                                                            desa @theackwardstation
                                                            @theackwardstation last edited by
                                                            desa
                                                            spiral
                                                            desa
                                                            spiral

                                                            @theackwardstation:

                                                            And who knows if Big Mom don't call Praline her stinky fish-girl? Btw, for all I know, Praline is one of the betrayers of her family, easily choosing the side of her husband.

                                                            She doesn't mock Dogtooth mouth or Jimbei so It seems Pudding is some weird exception.

                                                            theackwardstation 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                            • theackwardstation
                                                              theackwardstation @desa
                                                              @desa last edited by
                                                              theackwardstation
                                                              spiral
                                                              theackwardstation
                                                              spiral

                                                              @desa:

                                                              She doesn't mock Dogtooth mouth or Jimbei so It seems Pudding is some weird exception.

                                                              She calls Katakuri "a lowly kid of mine". https://jaiminisbox.com/reader/read/one-piece-2/en/0/863/page/15

                                                              The thing is… we didn't see how Big Mom interacts with most of her named children individually, so we don't have a full-fledge insight on the matter, but for all we've seen she does mistreat all of them to some extent or even completely ignores their abuses in their social lives because of her neglectul nature after she became an egoistical adult. It's totally in character for her to call Pudding a freak.

                                                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                              • L
                                                                Lord Monkey D.
                                                                last edited by
                                                                L
                                                                spiral
                                                                Lord Monkey D.
                                                                spiral

                                                                Not only that considering Big Mom lackadaisly nature with everything and even violent tendencies with her beatings of Chiffon, wanting/wishing to kill Reiju.

                                                                Not only that considering how she uses her own kids for her own self-serving ways its not really a big leap or even a surprise.

                                                                Its a Cinema Sins nitpick.

                                                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                • H
                                                                  Hisoga
                                                                  last edited by
                                                                  H
                                                                  spiral
                                                                  Hisoga
                                                                  spiral

                                                                  Firstly, I agree with theackwardstation.

                                                                  Secondly, I will totally agree with desa point if Big Mom were shown to like or love some of her children.
                                                                  I just started and finish WCI arc 2 days ago, and during the reading, i do try to find any where or time where Big Mom shows any affection toward her children. But i can't find it. Even the 3 towards 3 sweet commanders. But still, doesn't mean I am right. Its very easy to miss something when there were 2 years worth of chapters to read.😊

                                                                  and at the same times, all we saw from most of not all of her children, their behavior towards Big Mom were not like what we will see from normal family. Some of her kids only care to protect her just because of Totland's or BM pirates safety. Not for herself. and some even so easily betraying her.

                                                                  so Big Mom behavior toward Pudding, from my perspective, it's not that farfetch. She treat everybody like shit. But she did in her own way praised Pudding for her bloodline. Its her character. at least for me, i don't know whether BM actually insulting/mocking or praising Pudding when she called her monster IIRC. and another thing is, Pudding already have self esteem issue.

                                                                  This is another thing I like about this arc and OP in general. Characters have so much personality and background. We can see different kind of behavior and views from different kinds of characters from different kind of background and experiences. If we can only understand any of these character only form our own views/experiences, then we might misunderstood the story altogether.

                                                                  regarding Pudding instantly cry and failed to execute the plan just because Sanji comment regarding her eyes, I am not liking it that much either. But after a while, I don't find it really bad either because, we know that Sanji already know what Pudding will do to him at the time and Katakuri did try to shot Sanji when he realized that Pudding had failed. So its not that big of a matter. Oda already gave us more than one way for that plan to fail.

                                                                  theackwardstation 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                  • theackwardstation
                                                                    theackwardstation @Hisoga
                                                                    @Hisoga last edited by
                                                                    theackwardstation
                                                                    spiral
                                                                    theackwardstation
                                                                    spiral

                                                                    @Hisoga:

                                                                    I just started and finish WCI arc 2 days ago

                                                                    Hisoga, just a random question… what did you think of the last section of the arc (after the wedding) when binge reading it? Did it flow nicely or did it feel like dragging? And what's your favorite thing about the whole arc?

                                                                    H 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                    • A
                                                                      AlphaMale @Jabra
                                                                      @Jabra last edited by
                                                                      A
                                                                      spiral
                                                                      AlphaMale
                                                                      spiral

                                                                      @Jabra:

                                                                      He beat Bobbins…

                                                                      But yeah, it's certainly weird that he didn't get any proper 1 vs. 1 against a Yonkou crew fighting with food.

                                                                      lol Sanji was only given a win against a fodder

                                                                      –- Update From New Post Merge ---

                                                                      @sgamer82:

                                                                      You say that like it's relevant. More seriously, this arc was never about Sanji's fighting prowess. We already knew he had that. This was Sanji's version of what Usopp went through in Enies Lobby. To quote a post I made on another board a while back:

                                                                      Regarding the various plot issues being discussed, the only one I have a response to is Big Mom letting Luffy so far into her territory instead of taking him out faster. There is a very simple reason she didn't take more serious steps to nullify the threat Luffy represented: Big Mom didn't view Luffy as a threat.

                                                                      Several of the Big Mom pirates' missteps this arc can be traced to this fact. They didn't regard Luffy as a threat until it was far too late to do anything but damage control.

                                                                      well yeah it's relevant , One Piece is a shounen manga , focuses on adventures and battles . If I wanted to see a prowess in cooking , I would just see shokugeki no souma. We already know Sanji is a good cook and there was never a case where Sanji got troubles in preparing a food , so it's very predictable that the cake Sanji made would be good.

                                                                      theackwardstation 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                      • H
                                                                        Hisoga @theackwardstation
                                                                        @theackwardstation last edited by
                                                                        H
                                                                        spiral
                                                                        Hisoga
                                                                        spiral

                                                                        @theackwardstation:

                                                                        Hisoga, just a random question… what did you think of the last section of the arc (after the wedding) when binge reading it? Did it flow nicely or did it feel like dragging? And what's your favorite thing about the whole arc?

                                                                        It flow nicely unlike PH or Dressrossa. It did feel like there were multiple parts in 1 arc but in a good way.
                                                                        my favorite thing about the arc is characters, their personality and interactions. it really feel like pre timeskip OP.

                                                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                        • theackwardstation
                                                                          theackwardstation @AlphaMale
                                                                          @AlphaMale last edited by
                                                                          theackwardstation
                                                                          spiral
                                                                          theackwardstation
                                                                          spiral

                                                                          @AlphaMale:

                                                                          well yeah it's relevant , One Piece is a shounen manga , focuses on adventures and battles . If I wanted to see a prowess in cooking , I would just see shokugeki no souma. We already know Sanji is a good cook and there was never a case where Sanji got troubles in preparing a food , so it's very predictable that the cake Sanji made would be good.

                                                                          One Piece is a shonen manga that focuses so little on fights… come on! It's hard to say that's what matters in this series.

                                                                          For example, since the time skip, did we get a proper fight for any Strawhat besides Luffy? Even Zoro only got duels against opponents way below his level for a proper shonen. And when the other Strawhats get fights (if they get), the approach is much more comical than challenging and serious. Not only that, but I stress that many "hype fights" happened offscreen and some others are shown only in little teasing bits. And this policy is not exclusive to the New World, because even during the Paradise, we've had multiple instances in which the third strongest crew member (Sanji) only got fights a long time after the previous one… weird! And what about the weaker crew members? Barely any fights at all. So WCI is only another proof on the matter. Even Luffy vs Katakuri became this spectacle of character development for the anatagonist as a person more than a fighter.

                                                                          So yeah, truth is that Oda focuses much more on storytelling and doing new shit that he thinks are cool. And the cake falls in this category, like it or not. Sanji is the cook, so he got a cooking feat. Sanji inhirited the principle of feeding any hungry person from his true father Zeff, so he bakes a cake for the enemy in an arc centered around Sanji's relationship with family. Totland is all about food, so we got a big fat wedding cake to end the arc. The parallels are endless. That's One Piece for better or worse.

                                                                          And let's not talk about predictability, because it's also very predictable that a protagonist will win any 1v1 in One Piece when it happens.

                                                                          –- Update From New Post Merge ---

                                                                          @Hisoga:

                                                                          It flow nicely unlike PH or Dressrossa. It did feel like there were multiple parts in 1 arc but in a good way.
                                                                          my favorite thing about the arc is characters, their personality and interactions. it really feel like pre timeskip OP.

                                                                          That's nice to hear! 🙂

                                                                          A 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                          • Maju
                                                                            Maju @SirCaesar
                                                                            @SirCaesar last edited by
                                                                            Maju
                                                                            spiral
                                                                            Maju
                                                                            spiral

                                                                            @SirCaesar:

                                                                            The Sunny is an amazing ship and it makes absolutely no sense to sink it when you are confident that you can kill the strawhats and take it. About Tamago, is it confirmed that every member of the Big Mom crew knew about the betrayal plan? Seems a bit weird…

                                                                            then just steal the "amazing ship" when it's harbored at cacao island?
                                                                            same result really,and still a better option than aiding the only guys that can make your plan fail to reach whole cake island..since they lost pekoms while on the island, they wouldn't even be able to reach WCI in time without big mom's aid.

                                                                            @Buggy:

                                                                            Break next week or is there a chapter?

                                                                            no shonen jump at all next week because of golden week.
                                                                            after that chapter as usual

                                                                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                            • G
                                                                              Gecko Moria @Jabra
                                                                              @Jabra last edited by
                                                                              G
                                                                              spiral
                                                                              Gecko Moria
                                                                              spiral

                                                                              @Jabra:

                                                                              He beat Bobbins…

                                                                              But yeah, it's certainly weird that he didn't get any proper 1 vs. 1 against a Yonkou crew fighting with food.

                                                                              Nami and Robin didn't get any big fights in their rescue arcs either, so I don't know why people are surprised.

                                                                              Jabra 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                              • KageKageKing
                                                                                KageKageKing @Buggy D. Clown
                                                                                @Buggy D. Clown last edited by
                                                                                KageKageKing
                                                                                spiral
                                                                                KageKageKing
                                                                                spiral

                                                                                @Buggy:

                                                                                Break next week or is there a chapter?

                                                                                [hide][/hide]

                                                                                But expect early spoilers on maybe friday.

                                                                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                                • Kdom
                                                                                  Kdom @Blissed
                                                                                  @Blissed last edited by
                                                                                  Kdom
                                                                                  spiral
                                                                                  Kdom
                                                                                  spiral

                                                                                  @Blissed:

                                                                                  Resolved in the sense that, as you said, Reiju straight up told him that Big Mom doesn't really care (a difference compared to simply forgetting) about him. So right there, that already signals to people to stop worrying about it.

                                                                                  And before that, even if it ended up becoming a genuine issue later on, she explicitly told Sanji not to worry about the Baratie, to focus on successfully escaping first. This was essentially a response to those thinking that Big Mom had to be defeated or be on good terms with the Straw Hats by the end of the arc in order to guarantee Zeff's safety.

                                                                                  So when I say it's been resolved, I mean to say that this is in no way a plothole, as I've kept seeing people say for months now. No, Big Mom does not to need to be on good terms with them, nor does she need to straight up say that Zeff will not be harmed.

                                                                                  Even if one was insistent that that this is not good enough, off the top of my head there are several solutions Oda could use, the simplest one being that she almost assuredly has bigger targets on her mind, such as Fishman Island for example. Regardless, Oda did not forget anything here.

                                                                                  My personal concern on this point is that the Zeff issue was the main reason for Luffy and Sanji fight (which is probably one of the thing I hate the most in this arc) and this was resolved with Reiju saying "oh your handcuffs are fake, and Mum doesn't care about Zeff". As a reader I felt a bit cheated

                                                                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                                  • A
                                                                                    AlphaMale @theackwardstation
                                                                                    @theackwardstation last edited by
                                                                                    A
                                                                                    spiral
                                                                                    AlphaMale
                                                                                    spiral

                                                                                    @theackwardstation:

                                                                                    One Piece is a shonen manga that focuses so little on fights… come on! It's hard to say that's what matters in this series.

                                                                                    For example, since the time skip, did we get a proper fight for any Strawhat besides Luffy? Even Zoro only got duels against opponents way below his level for a proper shonen. And when the other Strawhats get fights (if they get), the approach is much more comical than challenging and serious. Not only that, but I stress that many "hype fights" happened offscreen and some others are shown only in little teasing bits. And this policy is not exclusive to the New World, because even during the Paradise, we've had multiple instances in which the third strongest crew member (Sanji) only got fights a long time after the previous one… weird! And what about the weaker crew members? Barely any fights at all. So WCI is only another proof on the matter. Even Luffy vs Katakuri became this spectacle of character development for the anatagonist as a person more than a fighter.

                                                                                    So yeah, truth is that Oda focuses much more on storytelling and doing new shit that he thinks are cool. And the cake falls in this category, like it or not. Sanji is the cook, so he got a cooking feat. Sanji inhirited the principle of feeding any hungry person from his true father Zeff, so he bakes a cake for the enemy in an arc centered around Sanji's relationship with family. Totland is all about food, so we got a big fat wedding cake to end the arc. The parallels are endless. That's One Piece for better or worse.

                                                                                    And let's not talk about predictability, because it's also very predictable that a protagonist will win any 1v1 in One Piece when it happens.

                                                                                    –- Update From New Post Merge ---

                                                                                    That's nice to hear! 🙂

                                                                                    just like I said , one piece focuses on adventures and battles . The battles are clearly one of the main aspect of one piece.
                                                                                    Do you forget why we even had a timeskip in the first place? So that SHP won't get beaten hard anymore in battles. Oda might try new things , but I'm just sharing that I think it's not good since most of audiences are in for shounen battles and the adventure mystery. Sanji making a good cake is predictable and expected .

                                                                                    Kdom 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                                    • Kdom
                                                                                      Kdom @AlphaMale
                                                                                      @AlphaMale last edited by
                                                                                      Kdom
                                                                                      spiral
                                                                                      Kdom
                                                                                      spiral

                                                                                      @AlphaMale:

                                                                                      just like I said , one piece focuses on adventures and battles . The battles are clearly one of the main aspect of one piece.
                                                                                      Do you forget why we even had a timeskip in the first place? So that SHP won't get beaten hard anymore in battles. Oda might try new things , but I'm just sharing that I think it's not good since most of audiences are in for shounen battles and the adventure mystery. Sanji making a good cake is predictable and expected .

                                                                                      Don't bother. There is two clans between one piece fans that can't understand each other on that aspect so arguing against the opposite side is a waste of your time 🙂

                                                                                      HeartOfDarkness theackwardstation 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                                      • Jabra
                                                                                        Jabra @Gecko Moria
                                                                                        @Gecko Moria last edited by
                                                                                        Jabra
                                                                                        spiral
                                                                                        Jabra
                                                                                        spiral

                                                                                        @Gecko:

                                                                                        Nami and Robin didn't get any big fights in their rescue arcs either, so I don't know why people are surprised.

                                                                                        Robin got a ridiculously satisfying victory over Spandam though.

                                                                                        Anyway, the argument that rescue arcs shouldn't allow the character in question to fight is incredibly weak. This arc offered a lot of opportunities for some Sanji fanservice without tarnishing his image of the victim - especially once the personal matters were resolved and Luffy had to be protected from Big Mom's top guys.

                                                                                        I'm really the last person to demand fights fights fights!, but I'm at a point were even I can comprehend the frustration from people who want some "wow" moments from Sanji every once in a while. Because it's been a long, long while already.

                                                                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                                        • HeartOfDarkness
                                                                                          HeartOfDarkness @Kdom
                                                                                          @Kdom last edited by
                                                                                          HeartOfDarkness
                                                                                          spiral
                                                                                          HeartOfDarkness
                                                                                          spiral

                                                                                          @Kdom:

                                                                                          Don't bother. There is two clans between one piece fans that can't understand each other on that aspect so arguing against the opposite side is a waste of your time 🙂

                                                                                          No, the other side is quite literally treating this some sort of philosophical question that is somehow ambiguous and not about a pirate manga about a rubber kid wanting to explore the world.

                                                                                          B 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                                          • B
                                                                                            BattleFranky69 @HeartOfDarkness
                                                                                            @HeartOfDarkness last edited by
                                                                                            B
                                                                                            spiral
                                                                                            BattleFranky69
                                                                                            spiral

                                                                                            I had to re-read that chapter because I don't remember liking it all that much the first time. I did like it a little more in retrospect but I do still understand what I disliked about it initially. It wraps things up a little too haphazardly and quickly there with a lot of unanswered questions. It feels like there was no resolution with the Sanji/Vinsmokes thing, like there was still more that needed to be said and wasn't. I get the feeling it's not quite as done with as we might have gotten the impression, since they're still in the thick of it and are bound to have a hell of a time making a getaway given how it took all of them, the Sun Pirates, etc., just to let one Straw Hat ship get out safely. Plus things haven't quieted down at all and several heavy-hitters on the Big Mom side are still standing.

                                                                                            I'm just about ready to let go of that Sanji-getting-a-powerup thing since there seems to be no need for it now if they just keep buggering off the hell out of there and just not worry about the fate of the ones they left behind to help secure their escape, it just seems so utterly anticlimactic for the cake to have done virtually nothing at all, the Germa to have changed so little (at least as of yet; their excuse of taking revenge on Big Mom rather than being there to help the Straw Hats is actually pretty solid), Pekoms' finally outright betraying them and his fate left unknown, and what Big Mom herself is going to do now that she's back to her usual fat, angry self and in no way is changed whatsoever. If her underlings aren't a big enough threat to demolish the Sun Pirates/Germa/Firetank Pirates in their attempt to escape, she sure as hell will be.

                                                                                            I want to give Oda more credit. I want to believe he's not going to say that everything that will make this situation resolve positively for everyone besides the Straw Hats will have happened off-camera. But it feels a little bit like he's going in that direction. It will be a big letdown if he does resort to that. All the buildup to so many fizzled-out plot points just doesn't merit a cop-out ending like this for this huge arc.

                                                                                            Also have to say…young Brulee was adorable. How did she grow up into this ugly hag? At least if her nose stayed that proportional to the rest of her face she'd be a little less witch-y and off-putting. I'm not sure I ever even noticed the scar on her face before. Poor thing...I do appreciate the dynamic between her and Katakuri. Like it's their secret between them that the rest of the siblings don't share. Really like the change I'm seeing in both of them, would have been a lot better if Big Mom was out of commission for a while so Kata could start trying to change things actively. I can only imagine what kind of punishments Big Mom is going to dole out to all of her 'failure' offspring who couldn't even stop this from happening.

                                                                                            Right now all I can really see going right for anyone is Pudding, since she seems to have no nice memories of her mother, doing something that somehow taints Mother Caramel's memory in Big Mom and that sending the big nutcase into a self-destructive fit.

                                                                                            Cyber-Robin Ukimix 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                                            • Cyber-Robin
                                                                                              Cyber-Robin @BattleFranky69
                                                                                              @BattleFranky69 last edited by
                                                                                              Cyber-Robin
                                                                                              spiral
                                                                                              Cyber-Robin
                                                                                              spiral

                                                                                              Mixed on this. Honestly this arc had a lot of fun moments and bits that dragged

                                                                                              • We got Bege who has proven to be the most interesting of the Supernova so far.
                                                                                              • Lots of fun side characters and interesting fruits, sadly a lot of them were under-used they were still a lot more memorable than Doflamingo's forgettable lot (excluding Baby 5)
                                                                                              • Ceasar was a lot of fun. Whatever happened to him?
                                                                                              • A lot of the crew got some focus; Nami and Brook especially had moments to shine.
                                                                                              • A Fun fight between Katakuri and Luffy was decent, unfortunately had an issue which I'll get to.

                                                                                              Unfortunately had some issues for me that kept me from loving it

                                                                                              • Sanji; Honestly his stuff just felt so forced and dragged out. Constantly jumping from interesting things to see him bake a cake really made the arc drag on. Went from being a middle strawhat to my least fave because I'm honestly fed up with him.
                                                                                              • Lack of significant Chopper focus. Nami and Brook got some focus. Chopper did not. He's been outshone by Law in Punk Hazard and now Carrot in Whole Cake. Needs some decent focus next arc honestly.
                                                                                              • The snail pace of the last parts of the arc. I mean let's face it so much of it was just running away, and running away, and Sanji baking a cake, and running away, and Luffy fighting then back to running away and Sanji baking cake.

                                                                                              Overall probably my fave arc since the Time-Skip but needed a lot to improve it. A lot better than Dressrosa and didn't have Law which automatically makes it good

                                                                                              Oh hey, I do videos on figures and manga and stuff: https://www.youtube.com/thatmanhismerch

                                                                                              B 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                                              • B
                                                                                                BattleFranky69 @Cyber-Robin
                                                                                                @Cyber-Robin last edited by
                                                                                                B
                                                                                                spiral
                                                                                                BattleFranky69
                                                                                                spiral

                                                                                                @Cyber-Robin:

                                                                                                Mixed on this. Honestly this arc had a lot of fun moments and bits that dragged

                                                                                                • We got Bege who has proven to be the most interesting of the Supernova so far.
                                                                                                • Lots of fun side characters and interesting fruits, sadly a lot of them were under-used they were still a lot more memorable than Doflamingo's forgettable lot (excluding Baby 5)
                                                                                                • Ceasar was a lot of fun. Whatever happened to him?
                                                                                                • A lot of the crew got some focus; Nami and Brook especially had moments to shine.
                                                                                                • A Fun fight between Katakuri and Luffy was decent, unfortunately had an issue which I'll get to.

                                                                                                Unfortunately had some issues for me that kept me from loving it

                                                                                                • Sanji; Honestly his stuff just felt so forced and dragged out. Constantly jumping from interesting things to see him bake a cake really made the arc drag on. Went from being a middle strawhat to my least fave because I'm honestly fed up with him.
                                                                                                • Lack of significant Chopper focus. Nami and Brook got some focus. Chopper did not. He's been outshone by Law in Punk Hazard and now Carrot in Whole Cake. Needs some decent focus next arc honestly.
                                                                                                • The snail pace of the last parts of the arc. I mean let's face it so much of it was just running away, and running away, and Sanji baking a cake, and running away, and Luffy fighting then back to running away and Sanji baking cake.

                                                                                                Overall probably my fave arc since the Time-Skip but needed a lot to improve it. A lot better than Dressrosa and didn't have Law which automatically makes it good

                                                                                                Mixed is exactly the right word, for both this chapter and the arc overall. Agree on most of it, but I still like Sanji, I'm just a tad disappointed he didn't get a powerup that he sorely needed. And I think the Chopper thing had more to do with the fact that Carrot is so similar to him that it detracted from him. Just makes it somewhat less sensible to have a Mink join the crew but there you go.

                                                                                                And do tell about the Luffy vs. Kata thing, I felt mixed about it as well.

                                                                                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                                                • Ukimix
                                                                                                  Ukimix @BattleFranky69
                                                                                                  @BattleFranky69 last edited by
                                                                                                  Ukimix
                                                                                                  spiral
                                                                                                  Ukimix
                                                                                                  spiral

                                                                                                  @Kdom:

                                                                                                  My personal concern on this point is that the Zeff issue was the main reason for Luffy and Sanji fight (which is probably one of the thing I hate the most in this arc) and this was resolved with Reiju saying "oh your handcuffs are fake, and Mum doesn't care about Zeff". As a reader I felt a bit cheated

                                                                                                  Sanji felt cheated. But feeling cheated as a reader over the same thing is kind or messing the point of view of a character and the point of view of the reader, as I see it.

                                                                                                  @Jabra:

                                                                                                  Robin got a ridiculously satisfying victory over Spandam though.

                                                                                                  Anyway, the argument that rescue arcs shouldn't allow the character in question to fight is incredibly weak. This arc offered a lot of opportunities for some Sanji fanservice without tarnishing his image of the victim - especially once the personal matters were resolved and Luffy had to be protected from Big Mom's top guys.

                                                                                                  I'm really the last person to demand fights fights fights!, but I'm at a point were even I can comprehend the frustration from people who want some "wow" moments from Sanji every once in a while. Because it's been a long, long while already.

                                                                                                  Yeap, Sanji was a cook in distress rescued by his rubber saviour (if at least we wouldn't have read Sanji's bro saying to him he's too slow… sigh). This coulor spread is like a portray of the way Oda sees the relationship betwee Luffy and his nakamas: he's the savior and main warrior, period. The nakamas are cookies. Sorry for Zoro's fans (included me), who is a cookie too.

                                                                                                  S Kdom 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                                                  • theackwardstation
                                                                                                    theackwardstation @Kdom
                                                                                                    @Kdom last edited by
                                                                                                    theackwardstation
                                                                                                    spiral
                                                                                                    theackwardstation
                                                                                                    spiral

                                                                                                    @Kdom:

                                                                                                    Don't bother. There is two clans between one piece fans that can't understand each other on that aspect so arguing against the opposite side is a waste of your time 🙂

                                                                                                    lol, of course One Piece has battles and I enjoy them. The mistake is to think that Oda is stuck with fights as the only thing he can do to highlight a character. Another proof of that is how Sanji was one of the lead characters of WCI and didn't get one.

                                                                                                    –- Update From New Post Merge ---

                                                                                                    @BattleFranky69:

                                                                                                    It feels like there was no resolution with the Sanji/Vinsmokes thing, like there was still more that needed to be said and wasn't.

                                                                                                    The major resolution happened in chapter 870 when they settled their differeces and moved on not acknowledging themsleves as family anymore. I think that makes sense as an ending to them, very adult-like way of dealing with problems, although not the most exciting thing ever. The thing is… the prideful Germa has put on their shoulders the duty of protecting the Strawhats because they were saved during the wedding and, according to Sanji, "that's their resolve".

                                                                                                    the Germa to have changed so little (at least as of yet; their excuse of taking revenge on Big Mom rather than being there to help the Straw Hats is actually pretty solid)

                                                                                                    This very chapter 902 excplicits that Germa was there to help the Strawhats, not to take revenge on Big Mom. That said, I wouldn't say the Vinsmokes have changed, because they're acting out of pride. But I'll give them the benefit of being shaken, as we can see by Judge's last words to Luffy in chapter 899.

                                                                                                    B 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                                                    • S
                                                                                                      Sirxxx @Ukimix
                                                                                                      @Ukimix last edited by
                                                                                                      S
                                                                                                      spiral
                                                                                                      Sirxxx
                                                                                                      spiral

                                                                                                      @Ukimix:

                                                                                                      This coulor spread is like a portray of the way Oda sees the relationship betwee Luffy and his nakamas: he's the savior and main warrior, period. The nakamas are cookies. Sorry for Zoro's fans (included me), who is a cookie too.

                                                                                                      I may need to take this to another thread, but this statement brings up something I have not been able to stop thinking about for a long time:

                                                                                                      At our current story progression, there is no scenario whatsoever in which I can see the Strawhats (+allied fleets) EVER making a play on Marineford the way Whitebeard did. And he was a mere Yonkou. I have no idea how Luffy intends to become his version of Pirate King at this rate with, at most, 5 and a half competent fighters 😕

                                                                                                      Originally Posted by .access timeco.

                                                                                                      He won't disobey if he dies, only if he dies when he dies!

                                                                                                      Because the madness that is AP Forums chapter discussions must not perish from the earth

                                                                                                      theackwardstation 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                                                      • Kdom
                                                                                                        Kdom @Ukimix
                                                                                                        @Ukimix last edited by
                                                                                                        Kdom
                                                                                                        spiral
                                                                                                        Kdom
                                                                                                        spiral

                                                                                                        @HeartOfDarkness:

                                                                                                        No, the other side is quite literally treating this some sort of philosophical question that is somehow ambiguous and not about a pirate manga about a rubber kid wanting to explore the world.

                                                                                                        You see, our differences have become so high on that point that i can’t even understand your english anymore
                                                                                                        @Ukimix:

                                                                                                        Yeap, Sanji was a cook in distress rescued by his rubber saviour (if at least we wouldn't have read Sanji's bro saying to him he's too slow… sigh). This coulor spread is like a portray of the way Oda sees the relationship betwee Luffy and his nakamas: he's the savior and main warrior, period. The nakamas are cookies. Sorry for Zoro's fans (included me), who is a cookie too.

                                                                                                        My dear friend, that’s a great theory since Usopp is also a special character for Oda but there is a problem with Chopper 🙂

                                                                                                        HeartOfDarkness 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0

                                                                                                        • 1
                                                                                                        • 2
                                                                                                        • 6
                                                                                                        • 7
                                                                                                        • 8
                                                                                                        • 9
                                                                                                        • 10
                                                                                                        • 8 / 10
                                                                                                        • First post
                                                                                                          Last post
                                                                                                        Powered by NodeBB | Contributors