Did Katakuri fought like he wanted to let Luffy win? There you have it.
He wanted to fall backwards. His defeat was intentional. It was not a pure defeat where Luffy overpass someones strenght. He let Luffy escape. Both of them were ko. So no, you dont have it.
Regarding the arc length…
It makes sense to make this thing about 75 chapters long, since this was about the amount of chapters Dressrosa went without the Swirlyhats (Nami, Sanji, Chopper, Brook). Now it's reversed: We had the same amount of chapters without Zoro's group (Zoro, Usopp, Robin, Franky). Zou doesn't count here since (with the exception of Sanji) everyone was there in the present time.
Sadly, not every person in the Swirlyhats got their moments. I'm looking at you Chopper. :getlost:
Carrot's still never gonna join the crew. 
I'll interprete Kata's smile as "he is glad Luffy managed to escape".
He would have grinned the whole Panel time if it was about his defeat.
I don't worry about G66, we still Need to see Judge's eyebrow(s), so they'll return one way or another.
If you aren't scared of BM's spell (like Jinbe) she can't do $hit with that spell.
The filmroll-Panels were sweet as hell, but I wonder what POV this could be, the JellyBege's? (jk)
On the other Hand the filmroll Pudding Held in her Hands was clearly Sanji's POV.
Oda doesn't dare to Show us that kiss (yet).
A lot of things in this chapter are screamin:
"this will get concluded with a happier end in the end."
This chapter was great. To those complaining about the conclusion of the arc, the mission's goals were to rescue Sanji and get a copy of the Poneglyph. Both goals were achieved. Everything else is currently extraneous. Jinbei and the Sun Pirates, Germa 66, the Fire Tank Pirates, Caesar, and the Big Mom will make their ways back into the story eventually. The most pressing things for the Straw Hats to do now are finding the surviving White Beard pirates, reuniting the Straw Hats, and liberating Wano from Kaido. Plus, there's a chance we'll get to see what's happening around the world and at the Reverie.
I find it much more enjoyable to just wait and see how things play out because I don't get disappointed when things don't go the way I wanted them to.
I'm a passenger on Oda's bus. I'm not going to criticize his driving because I think that I could do it better.
@Big:
Sadly, not every person in the Swirlyhats got their moments. I'm looking at you Chopper. :getlost:
Robin didn't do much in Dressrosa, so I guess it sort of evens out.
BM's last (face-)Panel was yonkou-lvl-epic. Kinda like the cover where we saw Luffy and the emperors in 4 Panels.
Soundtrack for the chapter.
He wanted to fall backwards. His defeat was intentional.
He was going to fall. He simply choose to fall backwards. How does that means it was intentional?
Pretty abrupt, but atmospheric and fitting end to the arc.
Much love to the Brulee-Katakuri flashback, I thought it was very sweet.
Gingerbread strawhats are freaky as heck lmao
By being a fanboy you are insulting your own object of worship.
Katakuri is a honorable man, he clearly respects Luffy enough to use his full strength. To let Luffy win is to disrespect this entire fight.
He just fell on his back on purpose but losing wasn't his decision.
What the Hell bingbang ?
Beautiful beautiful ending for a pretty good arc!
The Katakuri - Brulee part was the best. I especially liked how it was revealed that Katakuri never really hid his mouth because he gave a damn about being shunned, but only for the sake of his siblings, it gives both an additonal quality of strength and sweetness to his character.
I feel really sad for Pudding. I understand that the kiss could have led to a real engagement promise between the two for after Sanji's journey with the Straw Hats will be over, but in that case Oda would have had to renounce to the gags of Sanji flirting with Nami and Robin, and most of all that would have been a major and maybe unnecessary change for Sanji's character through his journey, his character's concept should be focused on being the gentleman cook who consider his crew like his own family and at the same time is searching for the All Blue with them, adding such an important promise would have just shaken his concept too much, their future is best left uncertain as it is imho. But nevertheless i hope that at end of series they will meet again and end up together, they have something in common like a similar childhood of being shunned and also their interest in cooking, so i'm banking on that ending for them. Maybe Pudding will keep that memory film and give it back to Sanji when the end comes.
What it's bugging me now is, how it turned out for Jinbe and Germa? Of course they're not going to die, but when will know what happened, in a few chapters when we'll read whatever Morgans will choose to report or in a thousillion chapters when Jinbe shows up at Wano and tells everything?
I think the fishmen pirates could still escape through the mirrors thrown in the sea :P
Maybe the germa as well, not sure :/
Still dont like the whole mobbing thing on WCI about Katakuri and Pudding, in a country that nearly all people look special it just does not make me feel for them even a little…
--- Update From New Post Merge ---
And there he is, sad about Pedro, oblivious to what his cake has caused.
Like I've been mentioning, SH running away like this, while leaving the people that were helping them seems way off to me. Sanji is thinking about Pedro, but what about the fishmen and his sis? And in the end even the part of the family he hates gave him a helping hand, just as much as Pedro did.
Saving sanji for losing all other poeple seems to be enough…
By being a fanboy you are insulting your own object of worship.
Katakuri is a honorable man, he clearly respects Luffy enough to use his full strength. To let Luffy win is to disrespect this entire fight.
He just fell on his back on purpose but losing wasn't his decision.
What the Hell bingbang ?
Falling backwards represents defeat in the eyes of his family and sister. So it was his decision to do that ergo he choosed to let Luffy win and not continue the fight. But thats not a real defeat.
Well eveyone is a fanboy here who posts in a one piece forum, so you are in the same category. When someone let the other win and escape on purpose thats not a defeat but yeah his is an honorable man for doing all of that.
I think the fishmen pirates could still escape through the mirrors thrown in the sea :P
Maybe the germa as well, not sure :/
the fishman pirates can escape no problem by just diving to the bottom of the sea..sure oven can stillreach to them,but one or two hits are barely lethal..other than that even big mom can't do much to them if they go underwater
germa on the other hand, they look kind of screwed.@Bellamy_:
Still dont like the whole mobbing thing on WCI about Katakuri and Pudding, in a country that nearly all people look special it just does not make me feel for them even a little…
do we have any confirmation that totland was already a thing back then?
katakuri is 48, let's say that he is 8 years old at the time…it's 40 years ago,a lot of stuff happens in that amount of time..and since those are pretty much the first charlotte siblings, we were barely at the start (relatively speaking, since she started as a child) of big mom's career as a pirate..i doubt she always had a kingdom
Falling backwards represents defeat in the eyes of his family and sister. So it was his decision to do that ergo he choosed to let Luffy win and not continue the fight. But thats not a real defeat.
Well eveyone is a fanboy here who posts in a one piece forum, so you are in the same category. When someone let the other win and escape on purpose thats not a defeat but yeah his is an honorable man for doing all of that.
Do you read many mangas ?
To not fight with all your might with the intent to win is always depicted as dishonarable and disrespectful to your oponent.
When two enemies acknowledge each other they fight with all they have.
Do you read many mangas ?
To not fight with all your might with the intent to win is always depicted as dishonarable and disrespectful to your oponent.
When two enemies acknowledge each other they fight with all they have.
Why are you going for this one size fits all mentality? A "fight between men" in manga is also a battle of wills and Katakuri lost his desire to stop Luffy. He wanted the little captain to live on.
And you think Luffy is not perceptive enough to notice that his oponent is pulling punches ?
And you think Luffy is not perceptive enough to notice that his oponent is pulling punches ?
Katakuri didn't go easy on Luffy. He just gave up after the final clash because his will had vanished. The whole fight is a Katakuri progression of going from A to B.
Why are you going for this one size fits all mentality? A "fight between men" in manga is also a battle of wills and Katakuri lost his desire to stop Luffy. He wanted the little captain to live on.
that is true,but it's not like he started pulling punches, but more like giving luffy the time to stand up and try again until he managed to overcome him, while before that he was all business and not giving luffy the opportunity to do anything.
Damn going to be 3 years until we find out what happens to Jinbei lol but happy we are moving on to the next arc!
Damn going to be 3 years until we find out what happens to Jinbei lol but happy we are moving on to the next arc!
jinbe probability of being dead it's as much as sabo had to actually be dead after the flashback..it's the germa that seem overwhelmingly screwed
Katakuri didn't go easy on Luffy. He just gave up after the final clash because his will had vanished. The whole fight is a Katakuri progression of going from A to B.
Hahaha he did not lose his will.
For ten hours he gradually lost stamina, blood, haki, and eventually conciousness and the fight.
Beautifull chapter.
Aww Carrot,that was quite nice.
Pudding only with her memories… was quite bittersweet.
Brulee and Katakuri moment was quite sweet, i don't know why are people focus on fight when man itself is happy that Luffy got away.
Nice parallel with Zeff at end.
Things will finish either on Elbaf or fishman island looking foward to it.
I hope toei this chapter justice.
Hahaha he did not lose his will.
For ten hours he gradually lost stamina, blood, haki, and eventually conciousness and the fight.
That too. I'm not saying the fight was a theater because the punches were real… but his character progression goes from "grrr, this boy is a threat and I'm going to stomp on him while he's a weakling" to "man, you're going to be the pirate king, huh, now I'm going to throw my back in the ground and be happy that he escaped". He lost his desire to stop Luffy from achieving his goals because he became a fanboy, all linked to the fact that Katakuri even matured during the fight when he learned that falling and getting up again and again is not embarassing. His ideals were contested by Luffy and Katakuri acknowledged that.
"I wear a scarf all the time to repent for what happened to my sister but I will play dead while she is kidnapped in front of me."
Katakuri is out cold. Deal with it.
Your analysis of why he fell on his back is on point. No question about that. But losing wasn't his decision.
"I wear a scarf all the time to repent for what happened to my sister but I will play dead while she is kidnapped in front of me."
Katakuri is out cold. Deal with it.
Man, this chapter literally confirms that Katakuri did it on purpose, why the denial? lol.
Falling backwards represents defeat in the eyes of his family and sister. So it was his decision to do that ergo he choosed to let Luffy win and not continue the fight. But thats not a real defeat.
Well eveyone is a fanboy here who posts in a one piece forum, so you are in the same category. When someone let the other win and escape on purpose thats not a defeat but yeah his is an honorable man for doing all of that.
He chose to not continue, yea thats why Katakuri spat out blood and fell unconscious after getting up.
Man, this chapter literally confirms that Katakuri did it on purpose, why the denial? lol.
Katakuri likes the idea of facing Luffy again in the future ! That's why he is glad that he escaped. He is not happy that his secret plan of losing worked lol
Katakuri likes the idea of facing Luffy again in the future ! That's why he is glad that he escaped. He is not happy that his secret plan of losing worked lol
Brûlée: "you fell on your back on purpose, didn't you?"
Katakuri: "I'm wondering why…"
No Sanji, Pedro didn't die for you–--- literally all that mess was because of you. In the end Zeff isn't safer than he was before... big plothole here.
Brûlée: "you fell on your back on purpose, didn't you?"
Katakuri: "I'm wondering why…"
…Instead of falling on his face.
He wanted to finally feel like a loser. It's a liberating experience for him.
Falling backwards represents defeat in the eyes of his family and sister. So it was his decision to do that ergo he choosed to let Luffy win and not continue the fight. But thats not a real defeat.
Brûlée: "you fell on your back on purpose, didn't you?"
Katakuri: "I'm wondering why…"
The way he fell doens't matter if it was a real defeat or not!
Learn to read the atmosphere instead of the lines!
That was a great chapter, it ended with Sanji and the man who raised him, best ending to this arc to me!
Also Katakuri is a worthy opponent of Luffy, i would love to see them fight again, though i'll always cheer for Luffy!
do we have any confirmation that totland was already a thing back then?
katakuri is 48, let's say that he is 8 years old at the time…it's 40 years ago,a lot of stuff happens in that amount of time..and since those are pretty much the first charlotte siblings, we were barely at the start (relatively speaking, since she started as a child) of big mom's career as a pirate..i doubt she always had a kingdom
Pudding's childhood was the same and Katakuri is 3 times older.
Hard to say without BM's Yonkou timeline info, but I think it's safe to say that wherever those kids were growing up, it was inside BM controled territory.
The way he fell doens't matter if it was a real defeat or not!
Learn to read the atmosphere instead of the lines!
OMG, you're right, I was not reading the atmosphere of Brûlée looking at Katakuri with eyes that say "I know you, you did it on purpose to let that boy win, didn't ya?" (which is complemented by that fact that she acknowledges that he's happy with the news of the Strawhats escape) while Katakuri is looking at the ceiling and trying to understand why he was acting like that for that boy… OH WAIT, this only confirms what I was saying!! Yatta!!
Holy fuck that was beautiful!!
The bit with kata and brulee hits me really hard (now i want a spin off about the charlottes kids!)
And the last bit with sanji and zeff is simply beautiful
We need Big mam to realise Sanji cooked the cake, and stop her army from targeting Zeff. Just…. the cake can't be useless. It can't be.
I'm like whatever about sexist teacher zeff final page. If luffy survived 2 years of time skip and 17 more years without sanji's cooking, he can manage without him or his pudding romance.
Jimbe is the one that should be now on the ship and sanji should stay behind with his boring family. When you got to travel from yonkou to yonkou, you need the best helmsman, way more usefull on a ship, anyone can cook.
OMG, you're right, I was not reading the atmosphere of Brûlée looking at Katakuri with eyes that say "I know you, you did it on purpose to let that boy win, didn't ya?" (which is complemented by that fact that she acknowledges that he's happy with the news of the Strawhats escape) while Katakuri is looking at the ceiling and trying to understand why he was acting like that for that boy… OH WAIT, this only confirms what I was saying!! Yatta!!
She only says that he fell on his back on purpose. She isn't saying anything that he let Luffy win on purpose in those lines.
Don't you realize that he done that because he ACKNOWLEDGED IT HIS FAIR DEFEAT?!
This arc was a roller coaster, it may be the weakest Oda's writting has ever been, at the same time is the arc that got me invested in and hyped the most. But this final chapter definitely hits as one of the indisputable high points, this. shit. was. good!
Everything about it was tightly done, really. Starting with Sanji standing alone as he mourns Pedro, you almost feel the cold wind as he stands alone up in the crow's nest weighing his decisions and their irrevocable impact on others. It only amounts to one page, but Oda really conveys the desolation. Which makes Carrot's appearance the more touching. Obviously I'm ALL in for Carrot bonding with as many SH as possible, but this scene is really good regardless of any other implication. Too bad we can't see Carrot crying in Sanji's chest (it was just suggested in a panel we can see him holding her by the head), that was something I was expecting to see.
As for Pudding, as much as she grew on me after her reveal, I never truly became a fan. Still, this was great. The moment she gasps for air after she remembers Sanji commenting her real appearance is particularly good.
Brulee and Katakuri scene was also great. I need to reread Katakuri's participation to have a whole comprehension of his character, since bits kept being throwing here and there all the way until the very last chapter, but his presence in the family gives the tone that makes it villainous but at the same time so lovable. And Brulee, how not to love her?
Also loved to see all the Charlotte kids getting hyped when they see their captain and mother arriving at the battle fully recovered! I couldn't help by notice we part ways with Linlin now in a very similar way Newgate died and Kaido was introduced.
Interesting note: BM getting back full should be enough to ruin any theories of a third party attacking Totto Land once the SH left, but in any case the fact that the sea slugs at the border of the territory were still active puts any hopes of it happening to an end.
And the final send off being Sanji serving food is just right. I won't say perfect simply because I think of the main things this arc was set to accomplish was to prove Sanji's worth as a person through his cooking skills and I think it failed in that for reasons I already explained in other threads, but if I ignore that part and focus solely on this chapter, that final page was simply perfect.
The only bad things about this chapter: no mention of Pekoms fate even though were went back to the plaza; the fact the whole second part of this arc was motivated by saving the Vinsmoke lives makes it extremely weird, from a writing perspective, to have the SH leaving them behind as they give their "lives away" to ensure the SH protection (and the fact this irony is not acknowledged at any point in the manga suggests Oda is oblivious to it). And Compote couldn't even be included in the flashback, huh!? She takes being forgotten to a whole new level, to a point we can't even remember her to mock her absence like we do with Smoothie.
Pudding's childhood was the same and Katakuri is 3 times older.
Hard to say without BM's Yonkou timeline info, but I think it's safe to say that wherever those kids were growing up, it was inside BM controled territory.
why is it safe to say?
controlling territories is not the norm for pirates, that's why yonkous are special..crocodile made a really big plan just to take control of one island and it was under the assumption that he could use pluton to keep the mrines from just re-taking possession of the island..even though it may be one of the non WG's controlled islands that the marines don't care about…but I don't see why it's a given that big mom was controlling the island they were in...in fact, considering that big mom never shows up in those flashbacks, I think she just dumped periodically the kids on an island to take care of themselves while she was around doing pirate stuff and abducting husbands.
different thing for pudding though,since we have news of roger escaping her territory with the poneglyph copies,and pudding is younger than that,so there were defiitely controlled territories when pudding grew up...not so much for katakuri and the early siblings though
She only says that he fell on his back on purpose. She isn't saying anything that he let Luffy win on purpose in those lines.
Don't you realize that he done that because he ACKNOWLEDGED IT HIS FAIR DEFEAT?!
Who's not reading the atmosphere now? lol. Look at her semblance of "sympathetic reprehension" to the fact that Katakuri didn't need to do that if he didn't want to… and why should this lead to Brûlée thinking that Katakuri would be happy about Luffy escaping if not for the fact that she concluded that Katakuri gave up on stopping Luffy for the reason that he cared for the boy? If he'd just been defeated and that cute performance was only aknowledge his defeat, there's no further reason to suppose that Katakuri was rooting for Luffy instead of rooting for the Strawhats to be captured by the BMP.
Besides that, now that we know that this whole show of getting up just to fall on his back was ON PURPOSE (confirmed), it's pretty clear indication that this was not just a defeat. Defeated people stay on the floor instead of throwing themselves WILLINGLY on them. If he had the WILL to keep fighting, his intention would be to try to resist the temptation of giving up (like Luffy does) instead of trying to look for the most meaningful way to look defeated ON PURPOSE.
Brulee said "If you knew where he was you would probably think thats great right?
Brulee asked a question as if she saw the future.
Katakuri obviously already knows how the conversation would go. So he joked and asked can you see the future? Because she was bang on with what Katakuris answer would be..
She then said the result of luffy. Katakuri gave a cheeky smile. Just as she thought Katakuri was happy that he escaped.
Thats the meaning of "I knew it…"
But you guys wanna spin it into a Katakuri fought so hard to lose on purpose. SMFH
Falling backwards represents defeat in the eyes of his family and sister. So it was his decision to do that ergo he choosed to let Luffy win and not continue the fight. But thats not a real defeat.
Well eveyone is a fanboy here who posts in a one piece forum, so you are in the same category. When someone let the other win and escape on purpose thats not a defeat but yeah his is an honorable man for doing all of that.
I am through and through a "Katakuri won that fight" guy, but I disagree. Like he puts in this chapter, falling on his back never had the actual weight he always pretended to have. He had been on his back before, maybe not in fights, not forced by an enemy, but on his own because he was relaxing. But still, that is enough to show that in his eyes falling on his back didn't have this significance at all.
Choosing to fall on his back instead of on his front (not choosing to fall instead of standing, just how to fall) simply means he took that moment to make clear that Luffy was the winner in his eyes (not mine) and/or that he was done with the farse of the perfect brother. He acknowledged defeat, to Katakuri himself falling on his back was not required for that, but he fell on it anyways to show to everyone else he was defeated.
That said, with so many things going on on this chapter, I seriously hope this thread will not be wasted on a discussion of who won that fight again.
@.access:
This arc was a roller coaster, it may be the weakest Oda's writting has ever been, at the same time is the arc that got me invested in and hyped the most. But this final chapter definitely hits as one of the indisputable high points, this. shit. was. good!
Everything about it was tightly done, really. Starting with Sanji standing alone as he mourns Pedro, you almost feel the cold wind as he stands alone up in the crow's nest weighing his decisions and its their irrevocable impact on others. It only amounts to one page, but Oda really conveys the desolation. Which makes Carrot's appearance the more touching. Obviously I'm ALL in for Carrot bonding with as many SH as possible, but this scene is really good regardless of any other implication. Too bad we can't see Carrot crying in Sanji's chest (it was just suggested in a panel we can see him holding her by the head), that was something I was expecting to see.
As for Pudding, as much as she grew on me after her reveal, I never truly became a fan. Still, this was great. The moment she gasps for air after she remembers Sanji commenting her real appearance is particularly good.
Brulee and Katakuri scene was also great. I need to reread Katakuri's participation to have a whole comprehension of his character, since bits kept being throwing here and there all the way until the very last chapter, but his presence in the family gives the tone that makes it villainous but at the same time so lovable. And Brulee, how not to love her?
Also loved to see all the Charlotte kids getting hyped when they see their captain and mother arriving at the battle fully recovered! I couldn't help by notice we part ways with Linlin now in a very similar way Newgate died and Kaido was introduced.
Interesting note: BM getting back full should be enough to ruin any theories of a third party attacking Totto Land once the SH left, but in any case the fact that the sea slugs at the border of the territory were still active puts any hopes of it happening to an end.
And the final send off being Sanji serving food is just right. I won't say perfect simply because I think of the main things this arc was set to accomplish was to prove Sanji's worth as a person through his cooking skills and I think it failed in that for reasons I already explained in other threads, but if I ignore that part and focus solely on this chapter, that final page was simply perfect.
The only bad things about this chapter: no mention of Pekoms fate even though were went back to the plaza; the fact the whole second part of this arc was motivated by saving the Vinsmoke lives makes it extremely weird, from a writing perspective, to have the SH leaving them behind as they give their "lives away" to ensure the SH protection (and the fact this irony is not acknowledged at any point in the manga suggests Oda is oblivious to it). And Compote couldn't even be included in the flashback, huh!? She takes being forgotten to a whole new level, to a point we can't even remember her to mock her absence like we do with Smoothie.
i agree..good arc but the writing wasn't really up to oda's standards..lots of plotholes,characters not making any sense or acting out of characters,part that don't make any sense even after re-reading the whole thing…
stillenjoyable..i'd give it the same rate as dressrosa,with higher lows but less coherence and with some occasional bad writing.
I don't think this arc is over just yet. I just can't. I don't think Oda is letting the SH's leave Tottoland with Zeus and I definitely don't believe that Pudding's ending could be this sad.
I can't wait for next chapter to see what Oda does. Cuz I know there's gonna be some twist and turns left for our heroes. They're not outta the territory yet, but they are close tho.
=D
I don't think this arc is over just yet. I just can't. I don't think Oda is letting the SH's leave Tottoland with Zeus and I definitely don't believe that Pudding's ending could be this sad.
I can't wait for next chapter to see what Oda does. Cuz I know there's gonna be some twist and turns left for our heroes. They're not outta the territory yet, but they are close tho.
=D
except is unequivocally said in this very chapter that they are, indeed,outside of big mom's territory
The color spread also states it is the last chapter of WCI. Jaimini's Box cleaned the page, but it is there on the MS version
why is it safe to say?
controlling territories is not the norm for pirates, that's why yonkous are special..crocodile made a really big plan just to take control of one island and it was under the assumption that he could use pluton to keep the mrines from just re-taking possession of the island..even though it may be one of the non WG's controlled islands that the marines don't care about…but I don't see why it's a given that big mom was controlling the island they were in...in fact, considering that big mom never shows up in those flashbacks, I think she just dumped periodically the kids on an island to take care of themselves while she was around doing pirate stuff and abducting husbands.
different thing for pudding though,since we have news of roger escaping her territory with the poneglyph copies,and pudding is younger than that,so there were defiitely controlled territories when pudding grew up...not so much for katakuri and the early siblings though
It's safe to say because Katakuri's childhood and Pudding's childhood are pretty similar, despite the age gap. And by the time Pudding was a kid, BM definitely held an island or two. Might have been even longer.
So I'm sure Katakuri and Brulee at least grew up on an island or in a town which was under BM's flag. Doubt she would just dump her precious kids in ditches and leave them on their own. It goes against the entire setting of her empire.
Controling territories may or may not be the norm for pirates, but seeing how BM has set her operation up, it is the norm for her.
