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    The Whole Cake Island Whole Arc Discussion Thread - Reviews for Totland

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    • CaptainAppleJack
      CaptainAppleJack
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      With the last chapter concluding the Whole Cake Island or Totland arc we can now look at it as a whole and see how it holds up in comparison to other One Piece arcs that came before it.

      For me it was a kinda weird arc. I have fallen out of One Piece a bit in this arc, only really skimming through the chapters some weeks. Some parts of it I would say are just general fatigue of being such a big fan for many years as well as getting more interested in other shows, however I can also argue that some stuff in the arc just did not click that well with me.

      But first of some pros:

      • Big Mom herself was a great anatagonist. It is rare for One Piece to have a main bad guy, who is not all evil (in their own arc at least) and she also had an interesting backstory to boot.

      • Some, if not most, members of her family and crew are also really cool and Oda went wild with their designs. I particularly enjoy Mont-d'Or, Perospero and Yuen.

      • A total standout character this arc was Bege. I never would have expected that from all Supernovae, Oda would give this guy so much to do. Him and his crew had some of the best moments in Whole Cake Island and were interestingly enough an actual morally grey faction, which was nice to see. The whole assassination plan might have been my favorite part of the arc.

      • While it was short, I also enjoyed the scene Pound's "death". His little interaction with Pez was really cute.

      • Art-wise Whole Cake Island was a real treat. There were some very nice spreads and as mentioned before we got some really cool designs, shoutout also to the wedding party guests.

      • Luffy's battle with Katakuri was one of the best final fights of the manga imo. Katakuri in general is also a character I can say only good things about for the most part.

      Now to the more negative parts:

      • This arc was dumped full with characters and with it now being at it's end I have to wonder: why? Sury, Dressrosa was in a similar spot, however even if it was little, I remember most characters there had at least something to do. I see that Oda wanted to show the scope of a Yonkou's crew by showing off so many big shots, but let them at least do something instead of just teasing some cool powers. Bobbin, Brownie, Cinnamon…the list could go on and on. And it's not even a problem with just the Big Mom Pirates, but what was the point of Drug Peclo, Umit and Giberson? Even some characters we already knew prior to the events on Totland kinda got shafted. Tamago's beef with Pedro ended not very satisfying and Carrot's inclusion felt rather superflous at the end.

      • The Vinsmoke Family and Sanji's additional flashback fell pretty flat for me. The latter especially felt very tacked on and very shallow, and the Vinsmokes were just so uninteresting. For being hyped up much we did not get to see them do much, with how their powers work being very unclear. They kinda got a bit better after getting saved (with some cool panels), but I am still not a fan - especially of the boys. It's a bit of a shame, since I expected more from the plotline, with "Mr. Prince" at least accidently foreshadowing since Alabasta, however what we got was them being one-note bad guys and Sanji being the most nice person ever in the whole history of everything!!11

      • Pudding's turn to good because Sanji complimented her eyes also was very weak.

      • Generally, the arc jumped around a bit too much. Worst offender was the skipping of Luffy & Nami finding out Cracker's weakness, but Katakuri being Luffy's main obstacle while getting introduced about halfway into the arc also tells a lot. The other Straw Hats also suffered quite a bit because of that.

      • Charlotte Flampe.

      So, overall I can't say that Whole Cake Island is among my favorite arcs. What's good about it though, is actually very good, so in the end I also don't hate it. It was just okay overall, I guess.

      So, what's your opinion of Whole Cake Island in it's entirety?

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      • MrPecans
        MrPecans
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        Definitely a flawed, but enjoyable arc. Big Mom is definitely one of my favorite characters now, and her family was just full of cool characters and great designs. I agree with the OP that Flampe was pretty annoying and that skipping a major section of the Cracker fight was a mistake. (I also really didn't care for Cracker's real design, and strongly preferred his six-armed self). I disagree that there were too many named pirates on Big Mom's side because I liked that her forces felt thought out and well-populated.

        I enjoyed every flashback (Big Mom, Sanji) and sweet moment (Pound and Pez, the whole last chapter).

        I enjoyed the Seducing Woods and I enjoyed the wedding crashing scene, Big Mom on the Sunny, and Luffy's big duel.

        Like Count Mario (and others) have said, the cooking sequence could have been spiced up.

        Bege, Caesar/Gastino, Carrot, Pekoms, Pedro, Jinbe - all of these characters brought it with some degree of consistency for me.

        The only SH who consistently did nothing for me - the Smoothie of our side - was definitely Chopper.

        GERMA 66 sucks. Just really lame.

        Tottoland is one of the best locations in the whole series.

        Favorite thing aside from One Piece is movies! Updated favorite films: The Passion of Joan of Arc / Alien / It's a Wonderful Life / Casablanca / One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest / The Apartment / Nights of Cabiria / Dr. Strangelove / All About Eve / Amadeus / Man Who Shot Liberty Valance

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        • T
          Triceron
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          It was a fun arc filled with memorable moments, but it ended with an empty conclusion. There are too many loose threads.

          Character development was very well done for new characters like Pudding, Katakuri and Bege, but it left behind any real change or development for the supposed protagonist of the arc; Sanji. Overall, he did what he always does and we don't really learn anything more to him other than what we already know. His history as a 'prince of assassins' changed nothing; his new cake saving everyone from Big Mom's wrath changed nothing, and his attitude towards the Strawhats and those around him did not change at all. The only flaw in his character was deciding to leave the Straw Hat crew expecting them not to follow, which I felt was completely out of character and I felt was a cheap plot device to introduce conflict with the Vinsmokes and Big Mom Pirates. The entire resolution felt hollow, especially with no one knowing Sanji made the cake, and Sanji himself not knowing about the kiss with Pudding. The only resolution we have with his character is his confrontation with his family and having him mirroring Zeff's actions, regarding him as a true father figure.

          As for the arc itself, I feel like we need time to evaluate how the arc fits in with the rest of the series. There is a lot of setup and we're still waiting to see the payoff.

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          • Johnny B. Decent
            Johnny B. Decent
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            I enjoyed most of the arc, but here are a few complaints of mine:

            Smoothie: Jumping Jesus on a Pogo Stick, what an utter disappointment of a character. At this stage, I fully believe her bounty is actually supposed to be 92,000,000, but someone messed it up and that's why she was made a Sweets Commander.

            The Vinsmokes: I'm sorry Oda, you can give them as many cool poses and stuff as you want, but the men were vile thugs who deserve to die at Big Mom's hands and Reiju….eh. She's nice and all, but she felt static.

            Chopper: Come on, Oda. You gave Nami and Brook cool things to do, why did you make poor Chopper a side-kick to Carrot? He can do cool things, too!

            Jinbei not leaving the crew: That's a cocktease and a half, and you know it, you bastard.

            The mid-cake bake lag: When it being made, it did kinda feel like things got slogged down there for a while.

            Ch. 901's switcheraoo: It didn't feel believable and was kind of a cliff hanger for the sake of it.

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            • Elektrik Dynomite
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              I loved this arc, favorite post time-skip, maybe top 5 overall. One thing that this arc has over every other, is the strongest middle section. A lot of One Piece arcs have strong openings and/or strong endings, but this one by far I felt had the strongest halfway point, being the wedding and Linlin flashback. I agree with most of the points in the first post, but I actually liked Sanji's new backstory for the most part. My biggest issue with arc is easily the wasted potential, so many characters ended up under-utilized. I simultaneously wish that they each did more, but at the same time I'm disappointed we didn't even get introduced to all of them. But so many impactful moments throughout the arc, some amazing character moments and development, some great world building revelations (Luffy vs Sanji, everything about Katakuri, Brook Nami Jimbe Capone Pedro all MVP - sorry Chopper - , Pudding twists -while confusing- I ultimately came to love it in the end, we saw Elbaph, Sulong, the musical songs, skinny Big Mom terror, etc.) . The anime is doing a great job fleshing out the fights and skipped content, so I'm enjoying that as well. This certainly is not the end of any of these characters. The line this chapter "Who Won?" is perfect, because every team ended losing and gaining something. Cant wait to see some of loose end characters again (Pekoms, Caesar, Zeus, Chiffon) though I do wish more concepts got fully explored (What is Reiju's fruit, what's the deal with Judge and Caesar, Smoothie's power, Germa's technology, Sanji's Diable Jambe, Snack and Compote)

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              • Halfmetal-lich
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                What I Loved.

                1. The design and style of Big Mom and her crew. Different from the usual Oda fair. Frankly the entire art for this arc was some of Oda's best.

                2. Big Mom herself, she took a bit to get there, but she really made it clear she was an Emperor of the sea alright, and that flashback is legit good.

                3. Jinbe showing up

                4. Luffy and Sanji's conversation

                5. Carrot and the mink transformation

                6. Sanji's second flashback

                What I didn't like

                1. The extended forest scene

                2. The bullshit fakeouts

                3. The fact that this arc was extended about 20 chapters too long. (Seriously, we could be well into Wano now, and not missed anything of real consequence)

                4. Fan hype over Katakuri. (He's a lesser Lucci at best)

                5. Jinbe blueballs

                Overall I'll give the arc a 3.5 out of 5. Pretty much par the course in what I expect from Oda. Great amazing highs, with some slogging middles. Zou reminded me that Oda can still pull off mean and lean arcs, but in Full Cake he seemed to fall back into the Dressrosa trap, though not nearly as much, and I expect Wano to be just more of the same.

                Originally Posted by KzTxL7

                I wasn't distracted by Lucy being half naked.

                You won this week Fairy Tail.

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                • FelRes
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                  Honestly, that was one of the best arcs overall for me. It had most of the stuff I wanted - a focus on the crew rather than 20 different factions, Sanji not being as awful as he's been these past several years, a whimsical setting, plot over fights, crazy cool character designs including more varied females, and the crew actually struggling. It hit a lot of my personal check boxes.

                  Character wise, this arc has been amazing. I get why some people would dislike Pudding for settling on good instead of evil, but I thought there were more than enough hints to make it clear that would be the case. She's funny when evil, but also very stock character. She's much more interesting and dynamic the way she turned out. I also went into this arc jokingly wishing they'd just ditch Sanji, but he actually proved to be pretty bearable. He had plenty of moments from fighting with his family early in the arc to bringing Luffy his meal to making that cake. I liked that it didn't revolve around fights, makes things way more interesting and keeps him well rounded. Then there's Germa, who I found pretty cool. I'm surprised so many people here hate them, but even the Vinsmoke brothers showed a little development with the banter toward the end. Judge was great at thoroughly being a dick. And I like Reiju for being a weird mix of callous and kind. Then of course I loved pretty much everyone else from the Charlotte family to Bege's gang to the underworld guys. Basically everyone but Jinbe who I can't stand, but I'll admit that wave scene was pretty sweet.

                  And gotta say that this has been the most emotionally satisfying arc in a long time. Seeing Sanji get betrayed by Pudding like that was harsh (deserved, but harsh). It was sweet seeing the Straw Hats go to those lengths to reunite with him, and how he still cared enough to save his family. Then we also get stuff like Chiffon's subplot about leaving Tottoland, and it was nice seeing Bege reciprocate her love (as opposed to Praline and Aladine which so far seems one-sided). Carrot's freaking over Pedro's sacrifice was good too - I like Carrot, she gets way too much flack due to a certain crowd, but on her own she's really enjoyable. The Big Mom flashback was pretty devestating - imagine if the people special to you just disappeared like that. I mean yeah she ate them but she isn't aware of that, so it's sad that she's still heartbroken by it decades later. I kinda feel bad for her. Kinda, she's still a terrible person. And of course the Pudding stuff was emotionally crippling. She gets bullied to the point of putting up an evil side as a defense mechanism and to please her mom, but Big Mom just thinks of her as a tool. Pudding isn't happy there. And she finally meets the person who appreciates her and brings out her real self, only for him to leave while she sobs in an alleyway. It's heartbreaking.

                  Some people don't like the downer ending to the arc, but I find it refreshing. It breaks status quo, I don't like arc-end parties that are completely out of place like with Punk Hazard. The way it ended, sure, it discredits Sanji's cake somewhat, though it did save Tottoland and please Big Mom. Who knows, maybe that'll work in their favor eventually. And yeah, Germa and the Sun Pirates got screwed in the end, but I like that they couldn't leave a yonko territory without serious consequences. I'm only sad that we may have to wait a long ass time to see where that goes. Maybe if we're lucky there will be a cover story during Wano showing some of what went down. Anything would be better than a Doflamingo pirates cover story.

                  As for stuff I dislike, it's pretty minimal. I thought Sanji's past resembled Robin's a bit much. The whole arc resembled EL too much at first really, though it became its own thing thankfully. Did not care for Pound at all. His role, sure, but I didn't like him personally. 901 was terrible. Chopper coulda been more useful.

                  Steam | Battle.net: FelRes#1963

                  \(゜∀゜ ) TSUKAME PURAIDO !

                  \( `ー´)TSUKAME SUCCESS !

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                  • DollarScholar
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                    Did nami aquire Zeus? Did she?

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                    • HeartOfDarkness
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                      Luffy.

                      That's all that needs to be said.

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                      • Captain M
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                        I remember ups and downs, mostly ups, but most of the downs towards the end and fresher in my mind. Overall the most enjoyable storyline since the timeskip, and definitely high ranking among One Piece stories in general. I also remember some of the most bitter and toxic fan responses I've ever seen in my years of following the series, both here and on other sites, over the last few months, which was very disappointing. Very tiring.

                        I plan to reread the whole Tottoland Saga over the next week or two and write up a full retrospective based on that. I'm actually quite looking forward to going over it all again and seeing how the volume read affects the latter half of the arc.

                        Vivre Card Archive One Piece in One Piece Covers Compilation

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                        • theackwardstation
                          theackwardstation
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                          I'm positively amazed by the WCI arc. Well done, Oda, well done!

                          To be honest, after my disappointment with Punk Hazard and Dressrosa (and even FI had its fair share of problems), I started doubting that Oda could deliver another great lengthy arc, but I'm so glad that my pessimism didn't come true. Above all else, it's surprising how refreshing and unconventional Totland was for this series, not only because of its fascinating setting, but also the mood, the structure, the pay offs, the characters, the themes, almost everything was a revelation. We got weddings, stealthy missions, adventures, a huge escape at sea (finally!) and some really weird stuff. To top all that, Oda was absolutely brilliant when it comes to visual narrative with such strong presentation of his art style, panel sequencing, page layout, atmosphere, weather composition, character's expressions and designs, beautiful big scenes, locations, sea battles, even a lot of musicals. Lots and lots of creativity in the details too. This arc is candy to the eyes and showcases great mastery of the manga format. Kudos to Oda!

                          Even the most criticized setion of this arc, this whole escape-from-Totland situation, was very well handled by Oda, in my opinion. Sure, it could have been better here and there and maybe slightly shorter, but that's not to disregard how much fun it was. What kept it intriguing for me is how unusual (and exciting) were the solutions for most of the dangers that the Strawhats had to overcome, like Pedro sacrificing himself and then surfing tsunamis and then Sulong Carrot and then stalling a Yonkou that had landed on the Sunny. Meanwhile, we've got one of the best fights in One Piece, period, with Luffy vs Katakuri. However, on a less excting note, Oda was very avarage in his presentation of the process of baking the Cake and the SanPu situation, although he finally delivered it for me by the time we got to the resolution of these subplots (chapters 900 and 902). Taking everything into account, for all that I care about, the only terrible sin that Oda's commited in this entire section of WCI was the deceiving cliffhanger from chapter 900… oh man, we could have left Totland without that lame trickery.

                          That said, I love the ending of WCI and I wouldn't say that the title "Bad End Musical" (chap. 900) is misleading after we got the "End Roll" (chap. 902). Not only chapter 902 was a great read, emotionally wrapping up so much of what's happened in this arc, the bittersweet aftertaste is very appropriate and welcome to the story. All things considered, great ending that addressed all the things that should have been resolved in this arc while lefting plenty of loose ends for the second act against Big Mom.

                          Regarding structure, I appreciate how the plot was very well organized throuthout the storyline despite having so much to tell about some many different characters. Each day in Totland was centered around a different plot point, so nothing in particular was dragging forever, but rather resolving soon enough for us to move to the next main event. Day 1, day 2, day 3 and day 4, each had its own flavour and emotions attached to it. Of course, some may complain about pacing here and there, but I wouldn't say that's a problem of structure.

                          ~~ My first highlight is about how much this arc was character focused. ~~

                          On the Strawhats' side, we got great emotional investment coming from Sanji, Luffy, Nami, Jimbe and Carrot. While Sanji was the central character in this arc (and so much can be said about his portrayal in a more focused review), Nami was a really pivotal character for the emotional input of the events that developed in the first half of this arc: back at Zou, she was the most supportive of Sanji's decision to sacrifice himself, but then Nami was the one that took the blow heavier than anyone else when Sanji turned out against them, promising to not forgive him altough being happy that he was back. That's exactly why I see her in the last two pages of chapter 902 as the most distant character from Sanji while everyone else is flattering him, because she's not confortable yet with his reintegration in the crew as if nothing happened, as if Sanji hadn't beat up Luffy. Talking about Luffy, he had plenty of memorable moments, from his hunger strike to his answer to Judge that he was listing all the Sanji's best traits. As for Jimbe and Carrot, I don't need to mention of what I'm talking about.

                          On the Big Mom's side, oh man, isn't this the best antagonist group in the entirety of One Piece? While some characters were absolutely amazingly depicted, like Big Mom herself and Katakuri, a lot of others were really meaningful to the narrative and gave us a really great understandment of the family, like Pudding, Chiffon, Brûlée, Perospero and Mont D'or. Even the least proeminent siblings had just really great designs, very charming and captivating. Overall, this pirate crew is much more than its individuals, but a great presentation of the dynamics of a group, with such an enourmous family that lives together, that have major internal problems, but also love each other (in some cases) while having an unhinged mother to look up to.

                          Even the third parties were also fairly interesting. The Vinsmokes, Capone, Sun Pirates, the brokers of the underworld, all of them had their roles to play and did it satisfactorily. I've developed a clear affection with many of these characters even if for the most superfluous reasons.

                          ~~ My second highlight is the portrayal of the themes in this story arc. ~~

                          The conceptual theme of WCI is family, because every major plot point in this arc has something to do with how the characters relate to their families, inhiriting or rejecting their ideologies, from Sanji to the Charlottes. By the way, anyone willing to make an analysis of Sanji's character development in this arc should look at everything under the lens of family, the first half reflecting his emotional distress of being surrounded/threatened by his blood family, then the second presenting him following the teachings of his adoptive father, Zeff. So even the cake plot had something meaningful to say about the theme of this arc.

                          The visual theme of WCI is food, of course. Wedding cakes, food islands, people with food names, food powers, the main character of this arc being a chef… everything! Awesome.

                          That's my review for now. 🙂

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                          • Retro
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                            It was…alright. Just okay. Not too bad, but not exactly one of my favorites either. I really mostly enjoyed the introduction and wedding chapters the most if I'm honest. We knew the stakes, the setting was hostile, wasn't surprised Luffy lost with the BMPs, the moments Nami, Chopper, Carrot, Jimbei and Brook in the mirror world were fun as was the Firetank meeting, the lead up to the wedding and BM's flashback as well. But once it was past that point, I was already weary once we got past the wedding and was expecting the climax to at least take about five to seven chapters. But once they talked about time limits I was like "Ooooh no".

                            Yes, it's a shake up to the status quo in that it isn't a complete victory for the SH (losing Pedro, Pekoms and having to postpone Jimbei joining provided he survives Big Mom) but that chase part just seemed to drag forever. A majority on this was all on that dumb cake which seem utterly pointless in the long run unless the BMP find out Sanji was indeed the one to make it, Whoopee Sanji saved an enemy territory. And? I don't see the benefit to this other then showing how uber his cooking skills and pride as a chef are. Likewise why couldn't the Germa 66 at least help during the sea travel rather then coming to show up at the tail end of the arc? That at least would've felt more significant in trying to project Sanji or the cake. I didn't feel anything when they showed up near AFTER everything was said and done. Judge and his brothers still don't see much worth in him and they just felt like a walking deus ex that was waiting for their cue. Lastly while I did enjoy Katakuri, the problem I had with the fight, and Cracker's now that I think about it, is that it stays in the same location and doesn't feel like it's progressing, very static. A better climax should've had them fighting around the islands via the mirror powers before finally coming back to the mirror world. Least in Enies Lobby all of that fight was portrayed in a short time frame and the Buster Call gave a sense of urgency. Here it just feels like padding to keep the climax going for as long as possible. Didn't even seem like Luffy got a handle on his Observation Haki, just got throttled for a good portion before remembering "Oh right I have a move that can help in this case". And if he did, I certainly didn't see it as it was way too vague in the final moments of the fight. Yes I'm impressed by his tenacity for such a long length of time but he kinda already proved that before he even got Haki. Heck Film Z feels like it did this better.

                            But I digress, despite my complaints, the majority was still enjoyable. The setting, alot of the Big Mom Pirates and how despite their twisted view least act like a family, seeing some of the character development with Sanji as well as Pudding (brief as her time was), the time with the Firetanks (never thought I'd be a Bege fan but he won me over, kudos on them managing to escape even at the loss of their original ship), the fact that this showed that the crew still got ways to go before handling the big threats that they'll inevitably face down the line, and yes I do agree for the fact that this is more personal in a sense for the SH then Dressrosa where they were only there because Luffy agreed to a whim and how the (pardon the pun) tide kept going back at forth between both parties where it indeed felt like things could go either way. I legit could not predict most of the outcomes of this arc. Granted they weren't all great but it kept me guessing and kept things interesting.

                            If I had to give it a grade, C- at best. Like I said, it was just a good read but not an arc I'll be re-reading anytime soon.

                            Get nuts or go crazy trying.

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                            • Kaido King of the Beasts
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                              This arc never seemed to go as ANYONE expected. I remember back in 2016 when I thought the Germa would be the villains that the Straw Hats would fight and beat while Big Mom would be a bigger scope villain, lol. And how in 2016 when people were thinking that this was gonna feel like a Thriller Bark and later an Enies Lobby rehash, only for it to tell a story that no One Piece arc has really done. The biggest correct prediction was Greg's cake one and even he wasn't expecting everything that came with that. Some of the new paths worked, others didn't.

                              I have a lot on my plate right now so I don't really have the time to formulate an overarching opinion of this arc. And whatever I think about it now, two days after its last chapter came out, will probably not be what I think about it a few years from now. But I do want to specifically mention the wedding and all the escape that came after that. Where some people saw pacing problems, I saw Oda finally being able to tell a story without relying on so many goddamned shortcuts. The first half of the arc was fraught with them, such as the Cracker fight and chaps. 851-854, which drastically undercut a lot of tension, but after that it actually felt like a natural sequence of events that flowed well, truly displayed the might of the Yonko, and hammered in consequences for the future, which I'm not sure a lot of people were really expecting from an arc that initially seemed to be focused on infiltration and family issues and had an event that was expected to be the climax, but wasn't, and instead created a spiral of events that will definitely have significant impact in the future. Not that it was perfect - I outlined in the official thread a few months ago how the buildup to the real climax felt wonky and how there were some unnecessary scenes (like Nuts Island) - but if Oda unfolds Wano the way he unfolded the last part of this arc, then Wano should be quite the story. One final little thing I liked about the last part of this arc was how a lot of it took place on the Sunny and gave a unprecedented taste of naval combat, which I really hope Oda continues and develops in Wano Country.

                              Spoiler:

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                              • U
                                uniaka ikuzakas @Kaido King of the Beasts
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                                This arc was a little too long for what it did and it left too many open plots, and the only real gain is the poneglyph copy, but how they set bm pirates to return, they could get it then. They did get sanji, but for that they lost jimbei and his crew, sanji's family, pound, capone pirates, pedro, pekoms. It was a good training arc for luffy, and also for nami that got a power up, but not really for everyone else. And the cake that delayed the arc for 30 chapters did help some but also got more in trouble at the end, so it did more harm then good.

                                https://imgur.com/MyjRSWw

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                                • H
                                  Hisoga
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                                  Just finish catching up after stopping reading One Piece right before this arc, I am very happy with this arc. It feels like pre timeskip arc for the most part.
                                  I am nervous at first before starting to read this arc because of so many opposite opinions from the fanbase from this forums and couple other forums. But turn out, i am really enjoying this arc. Yes, it still has some issues or the stuffs like all the arcs after strawhat split up at Shabaody Arc that i don't like, for example, many part that feel rush or skip where they were just told in characters dialogues or exposition.

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                                  • M
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                                    To me it was alright.

                                    Was nice to have Beige fleshed out; now I got a good feel of his character, and was able to get some enjoyment out of the interactions with him. For instance, now towards the end, it was so like him to suggest putting bombs/poison in the cake, but when he tried it he just couldn’t do it. That was funny. Also enjoyed the effect milk had on Luffy and Brook.

                                    But there is a lot of nitpicking I could go on with. At least there weren’t any string clones nor energy steroids to ruin the arc for me completely. Definitely had too much of those fake outs/twists. ”Pudding is nice. OR IS SHE?! She is bad! OR IS SHE?!Actually, she is misunderstood and bullied by her family”. Or is she?! Yeah probably the latter. The ship being switched out was complete bs as well.

                                    Overall I had fun, like I tend to have with One Piece. Alas the arc had plenty of things that was not pleasing to me.

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                                      that1guy @Melker
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                                      Overall, I would say this was a pretty good arc. We found out that Sanji was taken by Big Mom and his family for a forced marriage. Everyone was talking about how this arc was gonna be Sanji's redemption for his complete uselessness since the time skip. But to me Sanji didn't advance in anyway, he is still the same useless loser that hasn't been able to do anything to benefit the Straw Hats since the time skip. To me there are three main things that stand out about this arc: 1) Jinbe joining the Straw Hats; 2) Brook getting the poneglyph and breaking the picture of Mother Caramel; 3) Luffy beating Dogtooth 1v1 with no help from any Straw Hats or anyone at all. After he beat Doflamingo everyone said he couldn't have done it alone, even when he beat Cracker he had some help from Nami. Now he beat someone stronger than both of them and he did without help from anyone. Proving that while he does value and depend on his crew and friends for help at times, that when it comes to fighting he can still find a way to defeat the strongest of opponents himself, as he has done through out most of the series. To me Jinbe, Brook, and Luffy were the stars of this arc, Sanji was there.

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                                        Definitely one of my most favorite arcs together with Alabasta and Skypiea. And a much needed refresher after the overbloated mess that was Dressrosa.

                                        Pros:
                                        -Number 1 definitely the best pirate crew in the world: The Charlotte family with my number one most favorite Yonko in the world: Charlotte Linlin.
                                        I loved everything about them. The character designs, the sibling interactions, their simple overpowering might. Linlin's presence and cunning nature together with the most naive dream. Her flashback with Mother Carmel is one of my most favorite ones. And Perospero is my most favorite child of Big Mom. CP9 and the Thriller Bark crew might be the only other through and through amazing group of enemies.
                                        -So many epic moments for the Straw hats to shine: Especially Brook and Nami just had so many moments to shine.
                                        -Totland itself with the different islands, all the random homies, and the truly diverse crowd. I'm afraid everything afterwards will just feel dull in comparison.
                                        -The brokers with special shoutout to Stussy and Morgans to further elaborate on the world of One Piece.
                                        -Some very special and extremely memorable scenes: the starving crew early on, the Sanji-Luffy fight, the stealing of the Porngelyphs, the sacrifice of Pedro, the ENTIRE wedding, pushing burning Big Mom from the Sunny, the Katakuri Fight, the Linlin flashback, all the songs, Sanji finding the brutally beaten servant, the plotting of the assassination, pound's sacrifice, carrot's transformation, the entire navy battle, chapter 900 and chapter 902, Lady Amande cutting Kingbaum. And I might have forgotten more.

                                        • I literally love Pekoms, bagged Brulee and Caesar. The more of them the better!
                                        • pacing is so much better than in Dressrosa. God, was that a horrible mess of an arc

                                        neutral:

                                        • I didn't hate the forest chapters unlike many here apparently, but thinking back, it wasn't that memorable
                                        • Oda didn't really do the best job to individualize the Vinsmoke children. I can't tell who is Niji, Ichiji or Yonji.
                                        • I will scream if Pedro, Pound or Opera turn out alive.
                                        • I realized Jinbei has epic scenes but I just don't care about him that much really. He is like pre timeskip Franky to me right now. Just there.

                                        bad:

                                        • The entire Sanji flashback is really really meh, and most of the Vinsmoke stuff didn't impress me too much in what would otherwise be the PERFECT arc.
                                        • some characters were really underused. I still don't get why Oda decided to bring carrot along. Sure, Su Long forms are awesome, but you could have the same result with Pedro or Pekoms, both could have introduced the concept, and both were actually integral to the story. Compote did literally nothing, Smoothie is a meme now and characters like Amande and Randolph felt extremely underutilized. Although I have a feeling, that the defeat of the undefeated will happen whenever the Strawhats clash with the Big Mom pirates again.
                                        • Deus ex Machinas: how did Pekoms enter the Mirrorworld? Switching the ships. It's more of a minor negative point, because at this point you kinda expect those weird deus ex machinas.
                                        • Moscato is alive…................................................................ But I guess he only lost 40 years of his life, so that could explain it.
                                        • the chasing of the Cake took too long, although there wasn't really a chapter in itself there, that felt bad. it's just too long.

                                        Generally, I loved most everything about the arc. Linlin for Pirate Queen

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                                          Blissed @fuzi11
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                                          I consider this to be the best New World, and honestly one of the better arcs in the series. There's all sorts of things I loved about this arc, but the main highlight is the Charlotte Family. My word, easily the best group villains/antagonists we've had in the entirety of the series as far as I'm concerned. I honestly wonder how the Beast Pirates can match, much less top them. And of course, it goes without saying that Katakuri was a particularly amazing character. Even better is that the arc left several loose ends, meaning we'll get to see them again in a big way in the future I reckon.

                                          @fuzi11:

                                          • I will scream if Pedro, Pound or Opera turn out alive.

                                          Not that it'd justify it, but I'm fine with Opera coming back, because it'd just be the same method they used to bring Moscato back.

                                          Randolph felt extremely underutilized

                                          Honestly, the only Homies that mattered were Zeus, Prometheus, and Napoleon as far as combat goes. It'd be nice if for the next time we meet her, she actually shows off some genuinely formidable homies, especially with her implying that her soul-stealing ability is similar to Moriah's.

                                          • Deus ex Machinas: how did Pekoms enter the Mirrorworld?

                                          I came to the conclusion that this is likely due to him entering through Brulee's house. Half of it is positioned within the Seducing Woods, while the other half rests inside the Mirror World. The Seducing Woods are in Whole Cake Island, which is where Pekoms is. As a long-time member who'd know where things are, it's completely plausible that that within the timeframe that he was curiously absent, he used her house in order to enter the Mirror World.

                                          I still don't get why Oda decided to bring carrot along. Sure, Su Long forms are awesome, but you could have the same result with Pedro or Pekoms, both could have introduced the concept, and both were actually integral to the story.

                                          Maybe Oda has a long-term plan for her… :ninja:

                                          Moscato is alive…................................................................ But I guess he only lost 40 years of his life, so that could explain it.

                                          Literally the chapter after he died, Mont D'Or told BM's Incarnation Homies to pick up "every last second" of his lifespan. Since then, many theorized that he was definitely coming back, that it is possible to return lifespan to the body it originally belonged. And seeing as how he is a member of the family who died despite doing nothing wrong, it makes sense that they'd bring him back to life. With that in mind, I actually have no real issues with it; him being alive or dead means little to me because he was merely a vehicle through which Oda demonstrated how Big Mom's powers worked. If it was say, Perospero who died, that I'd have an issue with due to how Oda made a big deal about Big Mom threatening to kill him, as well as him being an actual important character.

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                                          • Onikuno
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                                            Katakuri ruined the entire arc.

                                            Oda ignored almost everything he set up in the first half of Whole Cake Island just to showcase a lame Bleach/Naruto-looking fight between Luffy and Katakuri is why the story did not work.

                                            The fact of the matter is that the entire story would have benefited if Katakuri didn't even exist. The weak story and personality is so unlike Oda I could have sworn it was written by an assistant.

                                            Almost nothing worthwhile was accomplished in the second half. Luffy and the crew might as well have escaped once they reunited with Sanji.

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                                              Brainyz
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                                              To me, this is the best post-timeskip arc so far, and one of my favorites in the whole manga.
                                              And unlike any other long arc in One Piece, it was very rare to see a chapter that didn't deliver on its own.
                                              This arc can be divided in my opinion to three smaller arcs, the first 32 chapters being the Sanji retrieval part which ends Sanji reuniting and making up with Luffy, and then the Tea Party part which lasts 16 chapters and starts with Luffy and Bege teaming up and ends with them separating, with last part being the chasing stuff that ends up being 30 chapters long. I think people are exaggerating when they say that part was too long, because if we just remove the 8 chapters before they arrive at the Sunny and remove the 7 chapters long epilogue which starts after Katakuri's defeat, we're left with 15 chapters of epicness.
                                              In these 15 chapters we had the entire Luffy VS Katakuri thing, which was pretty well received throughout, we also had Carrot's Sulong form, Praline collecting sea slugs, Jinbe riding waves, Pound's sacrifice, and more, with all of these stuff being agreed on to be very good.
                                              Which makes me believe that the hate this part is receiving is unwarranted. And I'm pretty sure the hate is bloated due to impatience for Wano, and the King Baum chapters being admittedly weak kickstarting the whole "end the arc already" thing, and giving the arc a hugely inconclusive end which gives the feeling that all of this chase was for nothing in terms of the narrative.
                                              I really want to talk more about the positives in this arc, if only because of how many people here seem to list the negatives.
                                              But oh well, in the end I'm posting complaints as well. My major problem with this arc is how they act like they're oblivious to the losses they had, which only makes the reader sad, but not expecting a turn of events because the main characters themselves do not acknowledge it. Chapter 902 could've been better if not only Carrot cried because Pedro died, but if Sanji cried because he left Reiju in danger, and Luffy concerned because he left Jinbe and Pekoms in danger too. But I guess Oda didn't want to be too dramatic, so he decided to create a small sense of happiness due to Sanji finally cooking for the crew once again.

                                              https://twitter.com/brain_yz ![](images/smilies/ipb/blush.png "Blush")

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                                              • Long John Silvers Rayleigh
                                                Long John Silvers Rayleigh @Onikuno
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                                                @Onikuno:

                                                Katakuri ruined the entire arc.

                                                Oda ignored almost everything he set up in the first half of Whole Cake Island just to showcase a lame Bleach/Naruto-looking fight between Luffy and Katakuri is why the story did not work.

                                                The fact of the matter is that the entire story would have benefited if Katakuri didn't even exist. The weak story and personality is so unlike Oda I could have sworn it was written by an assistant.

                                                Almost nothing worthwhile was accomplished in the second half. Luffy and the crew might as well have escaped once they reunited with Sanji.

                                                Completely disagree without said fight the second half loses a lot. Like honestly one of the best written, most compelling characters oda has ever done. The fight was long but I found it entertaining anyways.

                                                Yeah they all could have left after the wedding cake toppled but that would have been too easy a solution for leaving a yonko's territory.

                                                Chapter 437 Discussion after franky decides to join the Strawhats:

                                                So who think Usopp is inside that duffelbag?

                                                H x H Chimera Ant Arc / OP Manga Spoiler

                                                Spoiler:

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                                                  BattleFranky69 @Onikuno
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                                                  The characters it DID bother to focus on, were by and large pretty great. But so many just fell by the wayside (though I did appreciate being introduced to Charlotte Cinnamon, the hottest-looking girl in One Piece so far, IMO) that it at times felt a little like the Soul Society arc of Bleach where we were literally buried under an avalanche of new characters in a short time span, which is a horrible narrative trick.

                                                  Oda tends to make his flashbacks overly long but I enjoyed the ones for young Sanji and young Linlin. Much better than things like Montblanc Noland and Kyros' flashbacks. Smaller ones like Kata's past were also endearing, because his character is so different than others, as a villain. He more than any other antagonist has been more like Luffy's proper rival. Who else handicapped themselves to even things out? Who else refused help and berated them for interfering? His transformation from when he was first introduced up to now has been of the greatest magnitude of pretty much any other character. Mad respect.

                                                  There was a lot of letdown (assuming this is the final chapter and we're following the Straw Hats from this point and not looking back at Tottoland). Jimbei taking yet another sabbatical from sticking around permanently is disappointing. Sanji not having a true closure with the Vinsmokes, though I figure it'll come later (and him not getting a powerup when it was there on a platter waiting for him). A crazy amount of opposition to everyone other than the Straw Hats getting out of there safely. Big Mom not being incapacitated by the cake to any significant degree. Luffy vs. Katakuri being almost nothing but a one-sided beating and ending too abruptly once Luffy finally got serious. It's such a series of anticlimaxes throughout. The long, drawn-out chase, while it had its high points, seemed without merit in the end.

                                                  In all, I'd have to give it a C-, and that would be on the generous side just because I loved how Oda utilized Jimbei throughout, despite him having to yet again wait to see him be with the crew permanently. Some of the unforeseen twists were fun, and some of the characters really popped. But too much filler overall, too much left unresolved in the end, and so few proper fights, this would have been a horrible approach to take to an arc that occurred earlier in the series, like if this was as far back as Alabasta. It's a good job Oda waited til the series was this far in and firmly established so things like this can be, well, not forgiven exactly, but we have enough goodness throughout the rest of the series as a buffer to have a reasonable expectation of better things to come in future arcs.

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                                                    I wish there was a choice in-between the first and second options on the poll, haha.

                                                    Absolutely, I think this is the best arc post-timeskip, and easily one of the best major arcs a rung down from, say, your Water 7s and Alabastas and the like. And I think, right away, it's hard to qualify where it stands as an arc, because it sticks out from the others in pretty much every major way. If I'm going off of design alone, Whole Cake and the surrounding islands are easily top-class. Sanji's character arc challenges him in a way that's refreshingly new for a Straw Hat. The Charlottes, as a whole, also stick out from the crowd, and have way more layers of complexity to their narrative than the standard mook lineup… because they're not a mook lineup to be knocked over, they're a huge force in the world on their own, and most interestingly, they'll continue to be so later, making this another huge reason WCI's hard to quantify, it's so layered in what came before and what's going to come after. And of course, there's the side characters, and I'll put down my foot here, that put together, the minks, the Firetanks, and Caesar, make up the most flat-out fun support gang we've had from an arc like this. And hey, this arc warmed me up to the idea of Jinbe again! That's a huge feat! What stands out the most to me in this arc are the emotional beats from the heroes and villains alike but especially from Sanji and Katakuri (you can't beat the wet cig scene. You just can't) and the sheer threat scale of the arc. Big Mom ended up being both a uniquely cool and delightfully creepy villain, and the fact that she alone made this both the most whimsical and one of the darkest arcs is a blending of flavors that even a master chef would be proud of. This is the first arc where the New World actually feels as threatening and challenging as it was hyped up to be, and the stakes introduced here are pretty much the one thing keeping me excited for Wano.

                                                    But then, of course, with all this crazy new stuff, there are things that simply don't work. Pudding started out kind of dull, became really interesting, then nosedived to the point where I almost stopped reading the manga out of sheer frustration for how Oda writes women, and it's an achievement in writing that Oda even managed to level her out again by the end. The one thing that could possibly be worse than that is the Vinsmoke siblings, who ended up being, wow, just a massive disappointment. Seriously, Sanji has three brothers, and Oda just had to give them all the same personality, and also make that personality terrible? The arc also does that whole post-timeskip thing where he has too many threads going on at the same time and some of them are bound to be more interesting than the others and waiting out the lesser ones to get back into the scenes with more investment can make the arc a huge chore for the reader, and the constant breaks don't help that at all, even if the reason for them is understandable. It also doesn't help that, even in the best parts, it feels a bit watered down because Oda doesn't have the freedom to sit in one moment for longer than a freaking page, again a consequence of how many things there are to get to and how thin one can stretch the reader's patience, but having everything play out in quick vignettes rather than having any actual scenes leaves one lacking in the long term. The wedding cake business, for example, could have been much better on its own, but when it frequently cuts to unrelated material, runs over the course of a year, and then is resolved in a way that's too fast for its own buildup, it leaves us feeling stuffed but not satisfied. But I digress, as this is leading to more a complaint with how One Piece is these days, and not anything specific to this arc. What really needs to stop, though, is cliffhangers that seem insurmountable and imposing, followed by a two week wait, only to resolve in an easy answer in the first few pages of the next chapter. That's called cheating.

                                                    Ah dang, didn't mean to write a big post this time.

                                                    Overall though, I did really like this cake. It had a lot of layers, and most of them are tasty, and most importantly, Oda proved that, even 20 years into its run, One Piece still has new things it can do. And that's the brilliant thing about a work with a lot of new stuff, some of it doesn't work, but pretty much everything can surprise you, and I've always been one to favor something that's shaky but interesting, over something good yet calculated. Sweet, and risky… how fitting, no?

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                                                    • Onikuno
                                                      Onikuno @Long John Silvers Rayleigh
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                                                      @Long:

                                                      Completely disagree without said fight the second half loses a lot. Like honestly one of the best written, most compelling characters oda has ever done. The fight was long but I found it entertaining anyways.

                                                      Yeah they all could have left after the wedding cake toppled but that would have been too easy a solution for leaving a yonko's territory.

                                                      How is a character that literally parachutes in the middle of the arc and takes focus away from what the story set up in the first half compelling?

                                                      You had more than enough characters to work with without adding him and making him the focus. Maybe if he was around more at the beginning and had some interaction with the rest of the cast? But the bottom line is that the story suffered because of Katakuri. Here's why…

                                                      • Sanji's drama involving his family was barely resolved. Oda basically shoehorned in a quick fix while they were hiding inside Bege's fortress.

                                                      • Sanji, who the story was mainly focused on in the beginning, was relegated to making a cake...a cake that in the end did nothing to change anything outside of stopping a rampaging Big Mom. It changed nothing.

                                                      • Luffy, who already showcased he could beat a Sweet Commander earlier...fights yet another Sweet Commander. If that fight HAD to happen, why not someone else instead? Why not...SANJI?

                                                      • Why didn't Luffy and the crew fight off Big Mom instead? Isn't the entire point for Luffy to take down the Yonko? It seems way out of character for Luffy.

                                                      (...and don't tell me he's not ready either, we're 90 volumes in with ten years of build up)

                                                      Nothing worthwhile happened in the second half of this arc. All that was accomplished was rescuing Sanji and obtaining a copy of the Ponegylph. That's it.

                                                      Oda bit off way more than he could chew this time. And in the end, nothing major changed for better or worse in the latter half of Whole Cake Island.

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                                                      • Don Quichotte De Flamingo
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                                                        I hope BM will be tackled again later in the story, especially after Kaidou, where threatening future villains are anyways hard to come by.
                                                        BM showed what a monster she is and that only a plot without confronting her in a battle was somehow able to succeed.
                                                        Her ties to Elbaf, FI and her lust for revenge will sure give her a future confrontation with the SHs, which would be something completely new and exciting.

                                                        The overall arc had many great highlights, but was simply to long for it´s own sake.
                                                        While escaping the wedding and on board the TS is a great concept it just took way too many chapters for Oda to pull off.
                                                        The Vinsmoke introduction also was in my opinion a waste of time and in the end nothing was added to Sanji`s character other than he can be proud who he turned out to be?!
                                                        For the (two) year of Sanji, he just got some good moments +plus actually baking a cake….nothing else, not even a proper fight, which in a shonen manga should be the least thing given^^

                                                        I enjoyed the cast of the BM family overall, even when in the end a lot of characters were just filled in for the sake of having a bigger crew.
                                                        Nothing those new introduced characters did or said couldn´t have been done by already established.

                                                        The fairy tale setting and the chase on the sea were one of the best settings the series has shown so far.

                                                        Unrevealed_Loki/Rocks/Im-san_

                                                        IslandElbaf/Raftel/GodValley

                                                        UnresolvedWeevil´s plan/Explaining DFs/Deal with Kuma-Bonney´s past/Joy-Boy/Zunisha´s story/Rocks flashback/Void Century/Rioponeglyph/Uranus/the D.clan

                                                        DFWind/Metal/Acid/Liquid/Time-Stop

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                                                          BattleFranky69 @Onikuno
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                                                          Apologies if this thread isn't meant for discussion, I just felt like responding.

                                                          @Onikuno:

                                                          How is a character that literally parachutes in the middle of the arc and takes focus away from what the story set up in the first half compelling?

                                                          Well, to be fair, he had to BECOME compelling gradually. Which he did. And continues to. I like him better as of this chapter than before. Characters who aren't the main enemies (or even second-banana) don't often get that kind of development (Mr. Pink from Dressrosa did but was a complete dud in this regard despite the backstory).

                                                          You had more than enough characters to work with without adding him and making him the focus. Maybe if he was around more at the beginning and had some interaction with the rest of the cast? But the bottom line is that the story suffered because of Katakuri.

                                                          Okay, we can agree there, he ought to have had more time to stand out among his peers before the fight, and that's why it was so unexpected he'd handicap himself to make him even with Luffy after the fight was interfered with by his siblings. I kind of anticipated that (it's somewhat of a common trope in anime/manga) sort of reaction from him, but it was pretty out-of-left-field and could have been easily remedied with a little more attention to him before the big fight. But it's better to have a few characters and focus on them than just leave multiple minor characters undeveloped. Better a few than none (but some got so little attention they might as well not have been introduced at all, which wasn't a good approach.)

                                                          Here's why…

                                                          • Sanji's drama involving his family was barely resolved. Oda basically shoehorned in a quick fix while they were hiding inside Bege's fortress.

                                                          I'd argue it's still by and large unresolved, but otherwise, yeah, agree. Might still be time for Reiju to get hurt and him to go Super Saiyain over it or something.

                                                          • Sanji, who the story was mainly focused on in the beginning, was relegated to making a cake…a cake that in the end did nothing to change anything outside of stopping a rampaging Big Mom. It changed nothing.

                                                          If not for the fact that it changed nothing (probably the most unexpected thing this arc, outside of Jimbei yet again jumping ship), it would have been more meaningful so I wouldn't crap on him for that. It's been made clear that he hasn't developed strength-wise as much as his Monster Trio peers in favor of him sharpening his cooking skills, which clearly shine brighter than ever before.

                                                          • Luffy, who already showcased he could beat a Sweet Commander earlier…fights yet another Sweet Commander. If that fight HAD to happen, why not someone else instead? Why not...SANJI?

                                                          Sanji didn't improve enough after the timeskip. It's not his fault and yet this arc served him up perfectly for a powerup if he could awaken his dormant Vinsmoke super-genes. It just didn't happen that way. Besides which, Luffy had a hard enough time with Cracker and only won because of the assist from Nami. Kata's supposed to have been the top dog of the Sweet Commanders, and Luffy needed to be able to win against him alone, so it made perfect sense in this case to match him with Kata. But Sanji didn't get a proper one-on-one fight this arc so that did suck. Hell, nobody really did except for Luffy vs. Kata, so that's kind of a letdown that stretches the entire arc.

                                                          • Why didn't Luffy and the crew fight off Big Mom instead? Isn't the entire point for Luffy to take down the Yonko? It seems way out of character for Luffy.

                                                          They kinda did, and Jimbei's Shark Skin haki blocking was rad as hell but BM still tore up the ship (and Brook held his own against her and did pretty well despite having no chance in hell). The point of this arc was to rescue Sanji, not take down a Yonkou. The one they're aiming for is Kaido anyway, not Big Mom. The purpose this arc served was to show the great and terrible scope of the Yonkous' power, and she's probably among the weakest of them, so they've really got their work cut out for them if they can't put a dent in her despite all this. So we have a lot more to look forward to now that they're returning to their objective and have way, WAY more allies waiting in the wings for taking on Kaido. At least that's how I interpreted it.

                                                          (…and don't tell me he's not ready either, we're 90 volumes in with ten years of build up)

                                                          Agree to disagree time-wise. Clearly he's no match for her. Just how it is. Does raise a ton of questions about how he's going to handle Kaido.

                                                          Nothing worthwhile happened in the second half of this arc. All that was accomplished was rescuing Sanji and obtaining a copy of the Ponegylph. That's it.

                                                          Both of which were the stated objectives they had going in, and both successfully accomplished. Would it have been nice to do more? Sure. Actually, if you consider Morgans' report to the world, and the fact that Luffy advanced more before getting to an arc against presumably an even stronger Yonkou crew, it was a little more useful than that. There's also potential for Brook to have improved his soul power after tangling with the Soul Queen, as well as Nami obtaining a piece of Zeus that she can maybe turn into a Flying Nimbus she can ride on like Goku from Dragonball Z, something I'd been hoping to see her do since Enies Lobby. Jimbei came and went despite the whole reason for him declining to tag along revolving around Big Mom, so while the expectation was that he would join due to them charging into her territory, he's once again delaying his voyage with them. But now they know he's coming back, and more or less when, so that's something too. But they did stretch this chase out WAY too long and had no payoff for it taking that long, and it certainly makes it FEEL like, at least proportionately, nothing important did happen. But I'm kind of a big picture type of guy so I still see the results despite having to dig through the trash to find them.

                                                          And, unlikely as it seems at this point…if Sanji does end up getting that powerup, assuming Oda doesn't decide to let everything from here on happen 'off-camera', well, that's something significant too. But that's really wishful thinking on my part. I'd sure like Sanji a hell of a lot more if that did happen, though.

                                                          Oda bit off way more than he could chew this time. And in the end, nothing major changed for better or worse in the latter half of Whole Cake Island.

                                                          I think he had trouble with pacing, yes, but I wouldn't characterize it as biting off more than he can chew UNLESS he lets the Germa and Sun and Firetank pirates make their getaway off-panel. That would probably be among the greater disappointments of the arc. That remains to be seen, although I have a feeling he's going to do that.

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                                                          • Kylor
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                                                            To be fair, ending an arc with a strong focus on Sanji's value as a kindhearted, empathetic person by having him beat the crap out of some dude would be a bit conflicting, wouldn't it? I mean, I get that it's an action story and so the worth of a character is often evaluated by his feats in battle… but such is the pitfalls of the genre.

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                                                              Hedron @Kylor
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                                                              Best NW arc so far that's for sure. There are a few problems but overall it's a lot of fun.

                                                              BEST:

                                                              -Finally dealing with a Yonko.
                                                              That was the biggest source of tension to me. Big Mom and her crew costantly felt like a threat to the SH, much more than Dofla and his crew, and actually more than most of the other villains too.

                                                              -Big Mom and her family.
                                                              So many interesting designs. Amande and Praline are some of the coolest characters in OP.
                                                              And I don't mind all those guys who were introduced but did nothing, since there will be "Big Mom arc part 2" someday.

                                                              -Tea Party.
                                                              The pivoting event of the arc. The party itself was fine (a few things could've been handled better), but It's so hyping that makes the whole first half of the arc exciting.

                                                              -Luffy vs Katakuri.
                                                              The most extensive fight in the manga, it was fun and it definitely stands out. Katakuri has an actual personality and Oda was creative with his df. Which are the reasons why this fight was better than Luffy vs Lucci and Luffy vs Dofla.
                                                              I think it wouldn't be so hated if it wasn't one of the reasons why BM chasing the Sunny lasted so long.
                                                              My personal favourite is still Luffy vs Croc, so simple yet so perfect, but at this point in the story the fights need to be a little more developed, at least the main ones.

                                                              -Luffy vs Cracker.
                                                              What's the matter with the fights? Usually they are the least interesting part. Totto Land only had 2 full fights but i loved both of them.
                                                              Many people didn't like that skipped part of Cracker vs Luffy, but I would actually like to see that happen more often, and not only in regards to the fights.

                                                              -A lot of great stuff.
                                                              Off the top of my head: Big Mom on the deck and the strawhats fighting her, Nami's giant lightning bolt, Gangster Gastino, Brook stealing the poneglyph, Sanji kicking Luffy, Luffy talking to BM, the giant wave, Luffy clones destroying the cake and Jinbe leaving BM's crew at the party.

                                                              -Brook and Jinbe.
                                                              They were perfect all the time.

                                                              WORST:

                                                              -Cake's pay-off.
                                                              The cake saved Totto Land but that was never a goal for the main characters.
                                                              The cake saved the main characters but did that indirectly. It looked like Sanji's promise to save his crew with the cake was pointing to BM actually eating it. In the end it was useful to remind us how a good person who feeds even bad people Sanji is, but after that long ass chase I expected something else. Maybe it will have some lasting effects later on but it still felt a little underwhelming.
                                                              BM being knocked out until the SHts leave the country would've been fine, but honestly the whole situation could've been handled better.

                                                              -Chase was too long.
                                                              That's the usual problem Oda has, coming up with ideas that should take a few months to resolve, but then he spends more and more time just building up tension and then it ends up taking a whole year.
                                                              It's the kind of thing that looks better in the volumes, though, but even there it might make the story look more cluttered than already is.

                                                              -Sanji's not-really-a-plan to save Luffy.

                                                              -Ship switcheroo

                                                              -Capone helping the Strawhats all of sudden. That part never felt very smooth to me.
                                                              Same thing with Germa. Maybe Sanji actually gained their respect? But then Judge says those things again to Luffy so I don't know.

                                                              -Chopper

                                                              Minor complaint: Every BM pirate has a food-themed df. Ok, cool, but a little explaination would have made it look less convenient. Something like the thing with Kaido would have been enough: "BM wanted her crew to have food-themed powers".

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                                                              • theackwardstation
                                                                theackwardstation @Hedron
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                                                                @Hedron:

                                                                -Luffy vs Cracker.
                                                                What's the matter with the fights? Usually they are the least interesting part. Totto Land only had 2 full fights but i loved both of them.
                                                                Many people didn't like that skipped part of Cracker vs Luffy, but I would actually like to see that happen more often, and not only in regards to the fights.

                                                                My disappointment is not even the time skip during the fight, but how the whole dynamic of the fight was offscreened. To save it for me, just drawing the moment when Nami showed up to help Luffy would be enough.

                                                                -Capone helping the Strawhats all of sudden. That part never felt very smooth to me.
                                                                Same thing with Germa. Maybe Sanji actually gained their respect? But then Judge says those things again to Luffy so I don't know.

                                                                I think the reason Capone was helping the Strawhats at the end of the arc was because of Chiffon's desire to reciprocate the Strawhats' help to Lola. Capone is a great husband haha. As for Germa, they were doing it out of pride.

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                                                                  I'm a misanthrophe, so here we go:

                                                                  • Sanjis Backstory was unfulfilling. Most it was extrapolation of what we knew or what was kinda plausible. Why he's a pervert? Because some of his family are perverts. Why he's unable to hit women? Because Zeff taught him so. Character development for Sanji where he learns to hit evil women? No, because the woman was just misunderstood and will switch side for a quantum of kindness! Sanji is good the way he is so he doesn't have to develop right? And he doesn't even get to fight in what was supposed to be his arc.

                                                                  • Another iteration of loads and loads of characters that can switch sides anytime so Oda can finish everything fast if he runs out of ideas.

                                                                  • Another instance of Luffy closing in on his much stronger opponent within one fight.

                                                                  • Lots of contrived coincidence and spontaneous powerups.

                                                                  • Deceptive storytelling (Carrot cauldron swap ; Ship swap )

                                                                  • Passive enemies who leave tons of openings for the strawhats to escape

                                                                  "You either die a villain, or live long enough to see yourself become the hero." - Vegeta, Hero Slayer Garou, most MLP villains etc.

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                                                                    MrBits @Desperado
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                                                                    @Desperado:

                                                                    • Another iteration of loads and loads of characters that can switch sides anytime so Oda can finish everything fast if he runs out of ideas.

                                                                    That's the first time I've ever heard this criticism about One Piece in general. What other arcs has this happened? The closest I can think of is Fujitora.

                                                                    EDIT: I guess there's also Baby 5, but that one had zero impact on the overall plot of Dressrosa.

                                                                    Originally Posted by MrBits

                                                                    Place your bets. Is [AlphaMale/AlphaBro, an obvious ban evader] going to get banned again today, tomorrow, or in a week?

                                                                    Originally Posted by AlphaBro

                                                                    okay let's bet . Would love to see your losing face next week !

                                                                    An actual bet and conversation on the Chapter 905 thread, literally an hour before he got banned again.

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                                                                      I think the reason Capone was helping the Strawhats at the end of the arc was because of Chiffon's desire to reciprocate the Strawhats' help to Lola. Capone is a great husband haha.
                                                                      As for Germa, they were doing it out of pride.

                                                                      They just feel like very rushed and convenient 180° developments

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                                                                        Ch. 870 made it clear why the Vinsmokes helped them. Capone was obviously because of Chiffon, who willingly left to help them make the cake. I don't see how it's rushed, but whatever.

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                                                                          It felt like a clusterfuck with no real definitive goal in mind.

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                                                                          • theackwardstation
                                                                            theackwardstation @Desperado
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                                                                            @Desperado:

                                                                            • Sanjis Backstory was unfulfilling. Most it was extrapolation of what we knew or what was kinda plausible. Why he's a pervert? Because some of his family are perverts. Why he's unable to hit women? Because Zeff taught him so. Character development for Sanji where he learns to hit evil women? No, because the woman was just misunderstood and will switch side for a quantum of kindness! Sanji is good the way he is so he doesn't have to develop right? And he doesn't even get to fight in what was supposed to be his arc.

                                                                            I don't think his backstory tried to explain why he's a pervert, but that's funny, lol. Anyway, what Sanji's backstory sheds light on is why he holds his hard principles to such an extreme, since now that we got a new perspective about what Zeff means to him in context to his previous blood family. It's a little disturbing, actually, but I understand that Sanji lives in a trial of validation of his father figure, since he was rejected by his first father (a failure) and now he refuses to live a life where he cannot face his second father (Sanji even says these words).

                                                                            The character gained much more depht now, but I do wish one day he'll get some development. In his case, that means overcoming Zeff in his mind and I wonder if Oda intends to do something like that.

                                                                            • Another iteration of loads and loads of characters that can switch sides anytime so Oda can finish everything fast if he runs out of ideas.

                                                                            How is A connected to B? Or how is A even a bad thing when it was so meaningful to the characterization of the antagonists?

                                                                            • Lots of contrived coincidence and spontaneous powerups.

                                                                            Which powerups? Isn't this the arc of "prepared coincidences"? (vivre card, tamatebako box, Sun Pirates, Sulong etc)

                                                                            • Passive enemies who leave tons of openings for the strawhats to escape

                                                                            Are you talking about the "passive enemies" that actually have set plenty of traps throughtout the way and were on the protagonists' tail until the last second, being recquired multiple sacrifices to escape from their territory?

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                                                                              Hedron @Blissed
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                                                                              @Blissed:

                                                                              Ch. 870 made it clear why the Vinsmokes helped them. Capone was obviously because of Chiffon, who willingly left to help them make the cake. I don't see how it's rushed, but whatever.

                                                                              About the vinesmokes, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
                                                                              About Capone, I was talking about his decision to act as a decoy in chap. 892. He was supposedly doing that so he could have another chance at assassinating BM.

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                                                                                Desperado @MrBits
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                                                                                @MrBits:

                                                                                That's the first time I've ever heard this criticism about One Piece in general. What other arcs has this happened? The closest I can think of is Fujitora.

                                                                                EDIT: I guess there's also Baby 5, but that one had zero impact on the overall plot of Dressrosa.

                                                                                I never said they have to be completely antagonistic, just numerous and not strictly on the strawhats side so Oda can switch them to either side as he needs it.

                                                                                • Impel Down. Justified in that it's a jail so the pirates ( = Luffy allies ) are in the majority (there are still many of Luffys enemies inside of which some switch).
                                                                                • Marineford. There were lots peoples on every side ( some even on the marine side) who would spontaneously decide to help out Luffy if necessary.
                                                                                • Dressrosa every colosseum participant.

                                                                                "You either die a villain, or live long enough to see yourself become the hero." - Vegeta, Hero Slayer Garou, most MLP villains etc.

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                                                                                  I'm torn between the "good" and "okay" ratings. On the one hand, the good in the arc has been good enough that at a glance it seems like it should be firmly in the former category. On the other, not once before have I ever felt so unengaged during the process of an arc as with this one.

                                                                                  Fishman Island suffered from one of the the weakest casts of antagonists yet but still managed to pull together a beautiful story in the end. Punk Hazard had a messy, messy middle but there were so many fun characters all bunched up in one place, and it had an outstandingly good both beginning and ending. Dressrosa was my greatest disappointment with the series yet, but even then I can say that I prefer its highs over anything Whole Cake Island brought to the table. Nothing from this arc has stuck with me as much as the Law, Doflamingo and Corazon storyline and the flashback which was top tier even within this series known for extraordinarily good ones. And Zou… Zou's the best post timeskip arc as far as I'm concerned, short but sweet heavily condensed classic One Piece goodness with near-perfect execution.

                                                                                  So I'm in an awkward position of knowing the arc was not really satisfying or fully engaging but having a hard time pinpointing the exact reasons why. I've reread the arc in full over the last few days, and I think I agree with the sentiment I've seen that this arc probably benefits the most from being read as a whole over being read weekly more than any other so far. There's more to like here than I was feeling from week to week. There are a lot of fun characters and Carrot already feels like a crewmember to me. The theming is strong, the Charlotte family has grown on me a bit as antagonists (still nothing compared to the Doflamingo crew - but the contrast to Doffy's family-by-bonds, for whom he was an incomparably greater patriarch and family head, is certainly appreciated), and Katakuri ended up being a thoroughly satisfying character in the end with his initial stoic blandness being subverted wonderfully.

                                                                                  But there's still no way I can consider it as up there as one of the best arcs, and as a nearly 80 chapters long arc with a focus on Yonkou and what was supposedly the "year of Sanji"... it should be, damn it. The reason I can't help but feel it's below par is more that it didn't manage to live up to those lofty standards than because it's actually subpar, if that makes any sense. It's subpar in the "big, epic arc" category.

                                                                                  So what are the problems making it so, then? As I mentioned I think it's much harder to pinpoint them here than it was in Dressrosa, which practically wore its flaws on its sleeve in the second half. For this arc I find you have to dig a bit deeper and consider more carefully what worked and what didn't.

                                                                                  The Vinsmokes
                                                                                  I think this is the easiest criticism to make and from what I see, many other agree. They were perhaps Oda's worst supporting character group/secondary antagonists ever in my opinion. The three brothers lack any kind of memorable personality and I could never see them as engaging characters, no matter how many flashy spectacle panels they get. Judge is also frustratingly shallow and uninteresting. He's your typical arrogant monarch that does little to stick out despite being such an important figure in Sanji's life, so most of his panel time felt thoroughly uninteresting to me. Being this genius scientist who used to pal around with Vegapunk and Caesar was the most valuable thing his existence brought to the table, and that's not really thanks to any part of the character himself being well done.

                                                                                  Lastly I want to say that the Germa have made me feel something One Piece never made me feel before - disturbed. They're extremely unpleasant in a disturbing way and never felt like they got their comeuppance for it. Not in a getting beat up way but in a poetic justice way, y'know? They battered one of their terrified servant women to near death out of pure pettiness just to spite Sanji. Judge forced his wife into an invasive surgery that tore the ability to feel emotion from her unborn children, pushing her into taking heavy drugs in desperation, which eventually led to her sickness and death. I'd like you to read that last sentence again and think about it for a moment. Maybe it's just me, but this all hits me as deeply disturbing in a way that feels out of place in One Piece, despite that it's far from the worst thing that has happened from a utiliarian perspective. And where does this all go? They get beat up by Big Mom's crew a bit and just kind of get told off by Sanji in Capone's fortress. Then they vanish for half the arc only to return in a series of flashy, impressive panels as they burst in to save the day. Of all people, they toss around Sanji like a ragdoll between them, insulting his skills as he completely fails at rescuing his captain. I was shaking my head at this both times. Why do that? Rereading the arc it was the thing that baffled me the most.

                                                                                  And now, if they go do out against Big Mom, it'll be in a vaguely heroic moment that doesn't feel earned or in any way satisfying. I don't feel for these characters in any way. The one moderately brighter spot about the Vinsmokes is Reiju, but even she can't be called remarkable.

                                                                                  Smoothie
                                                                                  Good lord is this a bummer of a character. I'm not even going to focus on her being underwhelming in her displays of power for a 3rd-strongest Yonkou crewmember, which in my opinion she very much was. Instead I'm going to do the RLM thing. What's her personality? What are her character quirks and reasons for being the way she is? I bet you'll have a hard time telling me because she has none of those things. Throughout the whole arc she was little more than a mediocre design with a 900 million bounty walking/sitting/standing around doing nothing. This is one of the biggest proofs to me that something really was wrong with the arc and I'm not taking crazy pills. Never before has such a high profile villain been given such a thoroughly lame treatment, and for this to happen in a 75-chapter arc where her crew were the main antagonists is just unacceptable. It may be a small point that one character in Big Mom's crew was weakly handled, but it adds to that feeling of something being "off".

                                                                                  Sanji
                                                                                  Okay, so I'm not totally negative about Sanji in this arc. He was decent. But decent simply isn't good enough to fully satisfy what the premise promised.

                                                                                  I don't think his whole leaving and sacrificing himself schtick could ever have worked. It's not an implementation problem. I think Oda was diligent in doing what he could to work it out. But there's just no way he could ever have sold me on this concept, this far into the journey, with a crewmember that's been there since nearly the beginning. I understand Sanji's reasons for being unable to do exactly what the crew convinced Robin to do way back. They make sense, even if they feel contrived to force this development to happen. But he should never for a moment have thought there was a chance that Luffy would let it happen. He should never have even entertained the thought of it. As a result, all this ended up feeling like a whole bunch of drama with no real edge to it despite all Oda's efforts. He put a lot of effort into all this, tying back to Sanji's childhood with the mirroring of him bringing food to his mother in the rain with doing the same to Luffy. It really would've been great stuff if I bought into the premise. It makes me genuinely sad that I can't connect with this aspect of the arc but it simply doesn't work in my opinion.

                                                                                  Then, the whole cake plot. I'm not the biggest fan of this but not its biggest detractor either. I'm of two minds about it. I like a lot of the other events that it forced to happen, like Luffy vs. Katakuri and a lot of cool moments with the other crewmembers. But the actual cooking was just not entertaining to me. I feel like this was a mission impossible for Oda. Shima he is not, Toriko this is not, and I don't know if there was anything he could have done to show the cake bake process in a way that lived up to how much he hyped it via everyone absolutely losing their minds. In the end I came away feeling like I was just being told about how godly a chef Sanji is instead of being shown him doing actually impressive things. Nothing in that cooking process was as memorable and entertaining as his fight with Wanze. A third rate sub villain in the transition between two real arcs! And while I'm much more positive about Pudding than some people seem to be, the constant gags and fawning did get old at this point, especially considering how her turn at the wedding happened in the blink of an eye.

                                                                                  The character development and thematic stuff Oda did with Sanji still kind of works. It's there, but it stands on shakey ground… and the execution just wasn't impressive or entertaining enough to match the lofty standards I will always hold this series to.

                                                                                  Pacing and structure
                                                                                  I think this is something else a lot of people have criticized throughout the arc. And while I've certainly felt the effects of it as well, especially read weekly, I once again find it difficult to pin down exactly what went wrong and what should have been done instead (unlike Dressrosa, where I'll take the big, mean meat cleaver to everything dwarf-branded). I will say the arc is too long. Probably by about 10 chapters. And I think there's enough content to cut it down without losing something of great value or fundamentally screwing up the arc's goals.

                                                                                  Luffy leaving the mirror for a break in his fight with Katakuri, only to return right to where he was, felt like pointless padding. I realize this stems from the flaw of Gear 4 as Oda designed it, and that design is justified, but he could simply have had Luffy grabbing Brulée in a similar way and running around off-panel. This chase sequence didn't need to have even more bloat added to it. I think the initial forest sequence probably also went on a bit longer than it should have. Not that it wasn't fairly entertaining, but I have to question whether it was even necessary. It strikes me as Oda feeling the need to recapture that good ol' adventure vibe at some point during these messy arcs full of a million people, plots and places. And as much as that sentiment is appreciated, I feel like he's trying to have his cake and eat it too. It's never going to feel natural in the way adventuring on Skypiea or traveling through Alabasta's deserts felt natural. It comes off as forced and the sequences themselves aren't as good as they used to be either.

                                                                                  I've also expressed my dislike for the Vinsmokes, but I realize it's simply impossible to cut them off entirely and still maintain the arc's core premises. Minimizing their panel time would likely just make them even less engaging and take away from the already somewhat lacking emotional punch their feud with Sanji has. So maybe the solution here is to make better use of the panel time? Maybe cut a few things here and there and use what's gained there plus what was already assigned to make them at least somewhat engaging characters.

                                                                                  Other than simply tweaking numbers, there's also been a fair share of the by now patented post-timeskip scene-skipping extravaganza on display. I never felt as bothered by it as in Dressrosa and for the third time it's harder to point out specifics (maybe after a 3rd full reread I'll have some), but I'm confident in saying that Oda could still get a lot better at structuring up these giant bloated arcs.

                                                                                  WHEW. That's already getting too long and it's getting too late here. But I couldn't stop myself from getting some of these thoughts out. I'm very glad this arc is finally over and I'm also glad that my first reread made me appreciate it more than I have weekly. There are still lingering disappointments and a total absence of that feeling the great arcs of One Piece used to give me (and I won't buy anyone trying to tell me that I'm just getting older and more critical or whatever, because that feeling was present in full force during the humble little arc called Zou; I know for a fact Oda hasn't "lost it", he's simply not managing to pull it all together during these massive arcs). It's been good to read the thoughts of other people and I'm hoping to see some more things that increase my appreciation of the arc further.

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                                                                                    .access timeco. @Desperado
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                                                                                    One thing that I wish this arc had shown was more pirate crews affiliated to Big Mom.

                                                                                    Think about Marineford, the Whitebeard Pirates were just a small part of the power Newgate summoned there, the sheer amount of crews that were sailing under his flag actually managed to look even more impressive than the Yonkou crew itself. Now look at the Big Mom Pirates, look at how monstrously massive it was with all its Tartes and everything else, now take into account it was just BM own crew, not a single one of its affiliated crews were around with the exception of Firetanks and Sun Pirates.

                                                                                    I mean, it makes sense that where weren't a lot of crews in there, it is not like the BMP were planning a war or anything like that (the Germa assassination plan would have gone very smoothly if it wasn't for Bege's betrayal), but to think that the only two crews around were exactly the ones planing to betray BM is too convenient. It also sucks that we'll probably see the same happening with Kaido, since he is not expecting an attack and the only additional crews in there will be the ones to betray him (On Air and Drake Pirates), so we'll never have an idea of what is the true might those two Yonkou can amass.

                                                                                    That said, this leads to another thing that bothered me: the Charlotte family is famous for establishing connections through marriage and yet, except for the two daughters married with the two traitorous crews, we didn't saw a single Charlotte who seemed to be married. Chiffon and Praline both seemed to be heavily integrated into their husbands crews, so you would think if any of the other kids staying in Totto Land was married, the crew/organization they were married into would have at least some representatives around. But no.
                                                                                    That could be explained by the married kids being away with their own families instead of in Totto Land, but judging from all the recurrent BMP we saw in this arc is very likely we already met every single one of BM's sons and daughters (meaning only Lola was not around in this arc and maybe one or two others).
                                                                                    It's like the primary concept behind the Charlotte family was forgotten as soon as it was presented and served its function (set the WCI arc into motion with Sanji and Pudding).

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                                                                                      Johnny B. Decent @.access timeco.
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                                                                                      @.access:

                                                                                      One thing that I wish this arc had shown was more pirate crews affiliated to Big Mom.

                                                                                      Think about Marineford, the Whitebeard Pirates were just a small part of the power Newgate summoned there, the sheer amount of crews that were sailing under his flag actually managed to look even more impressive than the Yonkou crew itself. Now look at the Big Mom Pirates, look at how monstrously massive it was with all its Tartes and everything else, now take into account it was just BM own crew, not a single one of its affiliated crews were around with the exception of Firetanks and Sun Pirates.

                                                                                      I mean, it makes sense that where weren't a lot of crews in there, it is not like the BMP were planning a war or anything like that (the Germa assassination plan would have gone very smoothly if it wasn't for Bege's betrayal), but to think that the only two crews around were exactly the ones planing to betray BM is too convenient. It also sucks that we'll probably see the same happening with Kaido, since he is not expecting an attack and the only additional crews in there will be the ones to betray him (On Air and Drake Pirates), so we'll never have an idea of what is the true might those two Yonkou can amass.

                                                                                      That said, this leads to another thing that bothered me: the Charlotte family is famous for establishing connections through marriage and yet, except for the two daughters married with the two traitorous crews, we didn't saw a single Charlotte who seemed to be married. Chiffon and Praline both seemed to be heavily integrated into their husbands crews, so you would think if any of the other kids staying in Totto Land was married, the crew/organization they were married into would have at least some representatives around. But no.
                                                                                      That could be explained by the married kids being away with their own families instead of in Totto Land, but judging from all the recurrent BMP we saw in this arc is very likely we already met every single one of BM's sons and daughters (meaning only Lola was not around in this arc and maybe one or two others).
                                                                                      It's like the primary concept behind the Charlotte family was forgotten as soon as it was presented and served its function (set the WCI arc into motion with Sanji and Pudding).

                                                                                      I get where you're coming from, but considering how utterly massive the Charlotte family is, and the few extra characters, it would have got even harder to keep them all in panel time.

                                                                                      Like, do you remember the Underworld bosses not named Stussy or Morgans?

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                                                                                      • .access timeco.
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                                                                                        @S.C.:

                                                                                        I get where you're coming from, but considering how utterly massive the Charlotte family is, and the few extra characters, it would have got even harder to keep them all in panel time.

                                                                                        Like, do you remember the Underworld bosses not named Stussy or Morgans?

                                                                                        Yeah, I was thinking that too. And while I would want to see all of Kaido's fleet, not only his crew, that arc already seem to be too damn overcrowded with just the names we got so far.

                                                                                        That said, the Underworld bosses could easily have worked as a way to fix some of the second problem I mentioned. Oda just needed to have some of them be married to the Charlotte family (now that I think about it, I would totally support Du Feld/Smoothie).

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                                                                                        • theackwardstation
                                                                                          theackwardstation @Coruscation
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                                                                                          @Coruscation:

                                                                                          Smoothie
                                                                                          Good lord is this a bummer of a character. I'm not even going to focus on her being underwhelming in her displays of power for a 3rd-strongest Yonkou crewmember, which in my opinion she very much was. Instead I'm going to do the RLM thing. What's her personality? What are her character quirks and reasons for being the way she is? I bet you'll have a hard time telling me because she has none of those things. Throughout the whole arc she was little more than a mediocre design with a 900 million bounty walking/sitting/standing around doing nothing. This is one of the biggest proofs to me that something really was wrong with the arc and I'm not taking crazy pills. Never before has such a high profile villain been given such a thoroughly lame treatment, and for this to happen in a 75-chapter arc where her crew were the main antagonists is just unacceptable. It may be a small point that one character in Big Mom's crew was weakly handled, but it adds to that feeling of something being "off".

                                                                                          Hi, Coruscation, great review overall, but I'd like to discuss this particular point.

                                                                                          Starting by your challenge, I'd describe Smoothie as arrogant and sadistic (primarily by the way she likes to abuse people with her powers). She's also clearly afraid of her mother (as shown in two instances) and maybe it'll become a joke that she's lazy, lol. Her quirk is how she uses her powers in very disturbing ways. That said, I agree with you (and everyone else) that Smoothie was not an interesting character, although I like her design. Above all, she didn't do anything relevant, as we know.

                                                                                          However, I absolutely disagree that Smoothie is proof that something was wrong with how Oda planned this arc, but rather the opposite. Her role being so undervalued in this particular storyline is only proof that Oda is very conscious of the power of a Sweet Commander. He can't let Smoothie have enough space to do stuff without facing a huge problem: the Strawhats are not powerful enough to deal with her. So there are two options: (a) Smoothie would be obliged to underperform in a circunstance where there's no excuse for such or (b) the Strawhats would have to be captured by her (not an option, really).

                                                                                          The dilemma is as follows: Smoothie must exist, because a Yonkou must have at least a third commander, but this third commander can't be allowed to interfere too much, because (s)he's too powerful for the protagonists (aside Luffy). And this dilemma is very noticeable in the way Oda has written a lot of moments in the last section of this arc. For example, when the Strawhats were surrounded by two fleets and Sulong Carrot had to do her stuff, Oda put Daifuku on the front and Smoothie on the back, because he couldn't make Carrot jump into Smoothie's fleet. That'd be mission impossible for Carrot (the end of the line for the Strawhats), otherwise a Sweet Commander would be completely subpar in strenght compared to the others (and people would think she's even lamer).

                                                                                          To sum it up, I can't blame Oda for his decision to underutilize Smoothie, since it was only natural given the circunstances. Sure, there're reasons to be upset with her character, but I wouldn't dismiss the construction of the plot for this reason. At the end of the day, we should understand that there's going to be a Part 2 against Big Mom and that's when Smoothie will get her time to shine, hopefully.

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                                                                                          • Kylor
                                                                                            Kylor @.access timeco.
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                                                                                            @.access:

                                                                                            That said, this leads to another thing that bothered me: the Charlotte family is famous for establishing connections through marriage and yet, except for the two daughters married with the two traitorous crews, we didn't saw a single Charlotte who seemed to be married. Chiffon and Praline both seemed to be heavily integrated into their husbands crews, so you would think if any of the other kids staying in Totto Land was married, the crew/organization they were married into would have at least some representatives around. But no.
                                                                                            That could be explained by the married kids being away with their own families instead of in Totto Land, but judging from all the recurrent BMP we saw in this arc is very likely we already met every single one of BM's sons and daughters (meaning only Lola was not around in this arc and maybe one or two others).
                                                                                            It's like the primary concept behind the Charlotte family was forgotten as soon as it was presented and served its function (set the WCI arc into motion with Sanji and Pudding).

                                                                                            Given how every marriage we've seen eventually turned out, it's not hard to imagine that those Big Mom allies herself with don't end up sticking around too long after they stop being useful to her. She probably does use her children for arranged marriages quite often, but there are a lot of self-made widows in the Charlotte family.

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                                                                                            • .access timeco.
                                                                                              .access timeco. @theackwardstation
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                                                                                              @theackwardstation:

                                                                                              Hi, Coruscation, great review overall, but I'd like to discuss this particular point.

                                                                                              Starting by your challenge, I'd describe Smoothie as arrogant and sadistic (primarily by the way she likes to abuse people with her powers). She's also clearly afraid of her mother (as shown in two instances) and maybe it'll become a joke that she's lazy, lol. Her quirk is how she uses her powers in very disturbing ways. That said, I agree with you (and everyone else) that Smoothie was not an interesting character, although I like her design. Above all, she didn't do anything relevant, as we know.

                                                                                              My impression of Smoothie is that she is… smooth. When I think of her I remember her passing her arm over her underling's shoulders and pulling him close while explaining to him why they shouldn't bother BM with Jinbe's betrayal, and then when she told Cinnamon to not call men idiot (while looking at her male underlings) and told Daifuku he was also fooled by the SH when he was talking shit about Mont d'Or for the same reason. She seems to me like the cool and down to earth type, reminding me of the likes of Shunsui from Bleach.

                                                                                              But what matters here is that we two apparently got her personality so differently it alone shows how little attention Oda dedicated to her. However, the fact so many of the bigger names in the BMP didn't properly show their abilities (we don't even know what Smoothie DF is, didn't even got a proper look at Snack's face) seems to be like they are being saved for later, so I don't mind.

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                                                                                              • onemoment
                                                                                                onemoment @.access timeco.
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                                                                                                I feel much of my view of this arc was poisoned by my hatred of that cliffhanger resolution. It's something I never wanted, never expected anything from, and didn't turn out well.

                                                                                                That said, I remember several times during previous chapters how I loved how weird and different this arc was, in that this wasn't the typical "beat a pirate crew" arc like Dressrosa was. I feel I need some time to reflect on what I liked.

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                                                                                                • theackwardstation
                                                                                                  theackwardstation @.access timeco.
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                                                                                                  @.access:

                                                                                                  My impression of Smoothie is that she is… smooth. When I think of her I remember her passing her arm over her underling's shoulders and pulling him close while explaining to him why they shouldn't bother BM with Jinbe's betrayal, and then when she told Cinnamon to not call men idiot (while looking at her male underlings) and told Daifuku he was also fooled by the SH when he was talking shit about Mont d'Or for the same reason. She seems to me like the cool and down to earth type, reminding me of the likes of Shunsui from Bleach.

                                                                                                  But what matters here is that we two apparently got her personality so differently it alone shows how little attention Oda dedicated to her.

                                                                                                  The scenes you've just described were not the first ones that came to my mind, indeed, but that's not to say that I disagree with your perception of Smoothie. She's this cool thoughtful type yes! I also say she's arrogant because she's always too conceited, as shown multiple times in this pursuit. Both qualities are not contradictory, in my opinion.

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                                                                                                  • Game And Guy
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                                                                                                    i cant wait for the hollywood tv show to get to this arc forty years from now!

                                                                                                    You are on a quest to become the Pirate Prince, and you decide your fate!

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                                                                                                    • B
                                                                                                      Blissed
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                                                                                                      My main issue with Smoothie that well, of course it's the sole female Sweet Commander that didn't get to do much of anything. I completely acknowledge that fully throwing under Sweet Commander into the mix would've made things very challenging for them, which is why Oda had to essentially nerf her usefulness by having her out at sea. (Although even on land, pretty much the little she did was presumably off-screened) But at the same time I can't be so naive as to not notice that of course Oda would have her be the one to take the backseat. Which of course is par for the course when it comes to One Piece, one just has to accept it to a certain extent, but it'll always sting nonetheless as the years pass.

                                                                                                      Ultimately, it's not that big of a knock against this fantastic arc for me, namely because I'm mostly used to it, as well as the fact that Oda went out of his way to avoid 1v1 fights for the rest of the crew. (who realistically couldn't handle her anyways) But again, it still stings.

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                                                                                                      • Icefae
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                                                                                                        Pros: The first third of the arc's pacing was stellar. Great mystery, tension, high drama with Sanji, stakes felt high. Some of those early WCI chapters are some of my favorite.
                                                                                                        I really like how Oda took his time developing Totland and drawing us in slowly. Reminiscent of Water 7.
                                                                                                        Sanji's prince cape was sexy af
                                                                                                        Big Mom is an awesome villain. I love her design, I love her freaky stares, she has some amazing dialogue moments, and is flawed in a pretty unique way.
                                                                                                        Bege was a cool inclusion to the arc and frankly didn't overstay his welcome. Excited to see him again.
                                                                                                        Katakuri and his fight were just fucking awesome. He had a badass design, was genuinely threatening, introduced new mechanics to haki, and his character arc was very "show, don't tell". The fact that so many fans whined about Luffy having "plot armor" or whatever, totally having missed everything about their final interaction, was just icing on the whole cake.
                                                                                                        I actually loved the Big Mom pirates by the end of the arc. I complained a lot about them being incompetent clowns a lot but eventually it dawned on me that was the whole point. They are one of my favorite crews in the series. Fresh dynamic and cool designs.
                                                                                                        Pedro might have actually died. Holy hell.
                                                                                                        Loved the naval warfare sequences. It's about time we got some of that juicy stuff.
                                                                                                        I love the set up for this arc perhaps more than any arc in the series. Political marriage, rescue mission, etc. I think it also ends in an equally strong way with a lot having been lost and a lot of questions left unanswered. I have no doubt that Wano will have very satisfying moments but I'm probably more intrigued to see what happens in Elbaf or wherever Oda takes these subplots.

                                                                                                        Cons:
                                                                                                        Sanji retrieval portion of the arc was cut short with the Reiju/fake cuffs/BM doesn't even really care about Zeff etc. asspull. This one cut deep.
                                                                                                        I desperately wanted more development with Sanji and the Vinsmokes. They are some of the most deplorable villains in the series and Sanji or anyone ever really got to stick it to them the way they deserve. Seriously, reread Sanji's flashback. It's insanity. Coruscation's post on page 2 really says it all - they are uncomfortably and unjustifiably evil and manipulative more than your standard villain. I have no idea what what we're "supposed" to think about them. Not to turn this forum into my personal livejournal, but as someone who actually did run away from an abusive family, this particular subplot disgusted me. This is leaps and bounds above any other gripe I have with this arc.
                                                                                                        Pudding's "friend or foe" routine was a little clumsy to me.
                                                                                                        I really don't get why Oda would have introduced the "Big Mom will target your families" thing if he had no intention of following up on it or even writing around it in a believable way. That was a super compelling aspect of her character and I know I said this already but it's lame as hell that it was just dropped. I know this is One Piece and not Game of Thrones but damn Oda you had me thinking that people were actually in danger.
                                                                                                        The extended chase sequence seemed to nerf Big Mom's power really hard. It was weird how much shit she ate from Nami and Brook.
                                                                                                        A lot of time was spent on extraneous tertiary characters like Pound, King Baum, and Pekoms that I didn't give half a shit about. but hey buddy that's just me.
                                                                                                        Wadatsumi turning out to just have swapped the ships after the best cliffhanger in the series is frankly unforgivable. I kinda hope the Fishmen do end up dying just for that.
                                                                                                        Chopper didn't have much of a presence. It was a missed opportunity that he didn't even identify Big Mom's food illness.
                                                                                                        Like all New World arcs, there were way too many characters.
                                                                                                        theackwardstation bullying me in the chapter threads ;_;

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