Joy Boy, more like Joke Boy am I right?
Chapter 870: Parting
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This post is deleted!
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@Kaido:
Keep in mind that the main idea with the Supernovas attacking Big Mom was that they didn't even get to meet Big Mom, they were overwhelmed and forced to flee by her subordinates. Meanwhile Kaido dropped in on the three Supernovas and we have no idea what the case with Drake was. Sure, Kaido subjugated the Novas he fought, just as Big Mom quickly subjugated and imprisoned Brook after fighting him.
In all fairness, I had forgotten about that line of the Sweet commanders forcing the Supernovas back so I'll hold my hands up there. Brook is a fair example, and probably the best example we have of Big Mom's capabilities. Sure, he isn't on the 'Supernova level' but his powers have a distinct trumping advantage over Big Mom and she did still beat him.
I can't quite put my finger on why I'm not feeling Big Mom, but am Kaido and no it's not simply because Kaidou's appearence is more intimidating.
I think it's to do with Kaido having his fingers in a lot more pies than Mom(the irony, she's the sweets person); he's been responsible for causing unparalled fear in two previous antagonists(Moria and Doffy), is said to have clashed with Shanks during the war, has been involved with slavery rackets, is responsible for the death of Monosuke's father and Kinemon's leader, demolished Kid(whom many assumed would be Luffy's big Supernova rival and whom was planning to kill Shanks), is involved with the creation of fake devil fruits, and is responsible for assaulting Zou. Kaido seems scary through the chaos he's wrought on characters we're given familiarity with. He's a man with a plan, even if that plan is simply a massive bloody great big war.The effect of Big Mom on characters we actually know has been relatively small, relegated almost exclusively to Fishman island's residents and maybe Sanji(although I'd argue that's more to do with the Vinsmokes dragging him in than Big Mom).
If one of the islands that were destroyed for the ingredients of the wedding cake had been one we'd visited before and got to know the people living there I do think that'd have had a bigger impact, or if she'd been the one to destroy a previous antagonists dreams(similar to Croc with Whitebeard or Moria with Kaidou) then that would be some additional foreboding on her character.
Unfortunately nearly all the damage she's done that we've seen outside Elbaf in the flashback has been solely to her own country and people, with people we haven't really had the time to get to know to feel despair at her ruining their lives. Pedro lost an eye due to her and some lifespan. At a stretch I guess that could count?If you guys are feeling like Big Mom's doing a good job of showing how scary the Yonko are, then more power to you and hey, don't let me or the others who aren't feeling her get you down.
It's just, like, my opinion man.
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How does him being made of rubber justify his ability to blow people away for miles? He trained to be able to be that strong, it's not a matter of his devil fruit being what it is. Kaido is like 10 times taller and bigger than Luffy, thus he should be much much stronger. There you have an excuse.
A kid with a slingshot can throw a rock more far than the strongest man in the world with his hands
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@Joy:
….Are you seriously try to pass buildings as something impressive ? Like seriously bro ? Luffy in East Blue wrecked Arlong's building with a single kick.Luffy in base could sent Hody flying destroying city blocks,not buildings.
You showed what ? I don't see anything compared to the things I've listed.
At this point I really don't know what it takes to impress you, so I'm sorry Big Mom's not fitting these imaginary power/strength feat levels you have in your head.
It is impressive that he smashed them way off the freaking island.How can you not understand that ?
Luffy has smashed people off islands. Several people have told you that already. You really need to stop using that as some sort of example. By your logic, Big Mom destroying buildings is not impressive because Luffy has also done so…so why is Kaido knocking people off islands somehow special when Luffy did it too?
Seriously now ?
http://mangaseeonline.us/read-online/One-Piece-chapter-784-page-9.html
http://mangaseeonline.us/read-online/One-Piece-chapter-784-page-10.html
http://mangaseeonline.us/read-online/One-Piece-chapter-784-page-13.html
http://mangaseeonline.us/read-online/One-Piece-chapter-785-page-17.html
http://mangaseeonline.us/read-online/One-Piece-chapter-790-page-17.html
Are you seriously gonna compare BM's low showings to G4 ?
What is there to compare?
I mean, seriously. Gear Fourth caused all that destruction because it turned Doflamingo into a projectile. It didn't destroy massive amounts of structures with raw power alone like Big Mom did. Also, keep in mind that Oda put a lot more focus on the destruction in those scenes because he wanted to showcase Gear Fourth's power. As I've said before, Oda does not really put focus on these feats of strength from Big Mom because he's trying to portray other things. Just because he doesn't portray a character's power first and foremost doesn't make the character weak.
Oda has shown and they don't look impressive compared to her peers.Remember when Doflamingo used Birdcage and the likes ? Fujitora someone stronger than him in the same arc goes like "lol let's see this now " and he lifts the freaking rubble across the damn island.
Yeah I don't really know what to say to you at this point. You seem to only enjoy characters based on how "cool" and "impressive" they look. I really don't know why you're reading this series.
So much irrelevant gibberish.I like BM as a character.Heck I find her awesome.Fact is that her showings in the strength department are lackster compared to her peers.Destroying buildings is not impressive.Don't make me post every top tier feat in the next post because they blow every little thing BM has done visually.
But is that the point though? Are we supposed to see Big Mom first and foremost as a massive tank who picks off her enemies left her right; a truly powerful foe? No! Because this arc isn't focused on battle! It's focused on character development, and thus it is her character that has received loads of detailed paneltime. We see Kaido's strength feats hyped up because he's the guy getting a big battle. Oda's not going to hype up a character aspect that he isn't going to devote too much attention to (well, he did with Smoothie, and we know how that turned out). If a character is supposed to be fought, we see their feats of strength. If a character is supposed to play another role, we learn a lot about their personality and history. Big Mom is definitely in the second camp here.
I mean, I agree to an extent: Big Mom's feats of strength have not been displayed enough to make her an impactful final boss. So good thing she's not a final boss, and I don't have to care about how much her strength has been built up; I can just enjoy it as it gets displayed in various situations.
See this is supposed to be impressive..But have we ever seen a strong giant ? Dorry and Brogy have low bounties and almost got done it by Mr3. John Giant got wrecked like a bitch.Luffy one shot an Admiral in MF.Kashi and Oimo weren't anything impressive.Saul was a fodder to VA Kuzan.And the list goes on and on.
Physically? Yes, we have seen strong giants. The only people we've seen that have been physical matches for giants are Big Mom, Whitebeard (of course), Luffy, and Machvise. Machvise lost his battle with Hajrudin. Luffy only decisively defeated Hajrudin because of the Colosseum's confinements. Oimo and Kashi wrecked the Marines when they turned on them and it took tactics, rather than physical force for the Franky Family to take them down. Mr. 3 used trickery on Dorry and Brogy and was never shown to be any sort of physical match to them. Kuzan is an Admiral with a really powerful Logia so of course he should be able to hang with a giant - a giant, mind you, that had flipped over an entire Marine battleship prior to this.
So for Big Mom to outmatch giants physically, and render their attacks null and void, at the age of 5? That is indeed impressive.
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I can't quite put my finger on why I'm not feeling Big Mom, but am Kaido and no it's not simply because Kaidou's appearence is more intimidating.
I think it's to do with Kaido having his fingers in a lot more pies than Mom(the irony, she's the sweets person); he's been responsible for causing unparalled fear in two previous antagonists(Moria and Doffy), is said to have clashed with Shanks during the war, has been involved with slavery rackets, is responsible for the death of Monosuke's father and Kinemon's leader, demolished Kid(whom many assumed would be Luffy's big Supernova rival and whom was planning to kill Shanks), is involved with the creation of fake devil fruits, and is responsible for assaulting Zou. Kaido seems scary through the chaos he's wrought on characters we're given familiarity with. He's a man with a plan, even if that plan is simply a massive bloody great big war.I'd attribute this to what I've been talking about above - Kaido has been hyped up as this massive battle threat, while Big Mom has received more focus in other areas. So I understand people not thinking much of her power, but the complaints about her looking weak are what I find silly.
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The destruction of Elbaf and apparent domination over all of her subordinates (including Smoothie and Katakuri, who are analogous to Jack, Marco, Jozu, etc.) puts Big Mom comfortably into the yonko stratosphere in my opinion (didn't Oda say he made a mistake in making the Yonko so ridiculously powerful? He doesn't seem to be relenting…). That she does this seemingly unconsciously elevates her somehow higher, to the point of perhaps absurdity. I think it's certainly a debatable issue, but I feel like there's a discrepancy between Katakuri/Big Mom and Marco/Whitebeard, perhaps Jack/Kaido (not to mention Shanks/Beckman, Roger/Rayleigh). Maybe it isn't necessary for there to be parity, but I still find it strange that even Big Mom's highest ranking subordinates feel so subordinate.
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Tamatebakko chest to explode at the bottom and topple the cake mountain to give our heroes the opening to flee.
THIS is the only outcome that seems plausible. The chest has been falling this whole time.
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The destruction of Elbaf and apparent domination over all of her subordinates (including Smoothie and Katakuri, who are analogous to Jack, Marco, Jozu, etc.) puts Big Mom comfortably into the yonko stratosphere in my opinion (didn't Oda say he made a mistake in making the Yonko so ridiculously powerful? He doesn't seem to be relenting…). That she does this seemingly unconsciously elevates her somehow higher, to the point of perhaps absurdity. I think it's certainly a debatable issue, but I feel like there's a discrepancy between Katakuri/Big Mom and Marco/Whitebeard, perhaps Jack/Kaido (not to mention Shanks/Beckman, Roger/Rayleigh). Maybe it isn't necessary for there to be parity, but I still find it strange that even Big Mom's highest ranking subordinates feel so subordinate.
I wouldn't expect parity between the Yonko and their top fighters, that would be a lot of potential for mutiny there. Also I don't think Oda's regretted making the Yonko as strong as they are.
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They can't leave until Pedro gets his 50 years back, unless he will return in future arc with SHs to beat bm and that makes hims…what...new nakama? I Wonder how will he get his years back without the defeat of BM.
Anyway, feel a bit wierd and bad for yonkou's crew that 5 germa plus luffy and sanji( 7 people) can hold the entire yonkou's crew in place enough for the others to escape. Because it doesn't feel like they have to run and stand no shot in a fight, it just cheapens the yonkou's crew if only 7 people from the castle can hold a yonkou's crew.
And did the 4 germa just block allllllll the bullets that everyone from the crew, including the sweet commanders are shooting at them? What? and didn't they have anti super germa kids guns?
And bm herself looked more impressive as child beating up elbaf. Capone alone tanked all her attcks and is still stading and talking and making plans at the same time. what??? And reiju tanking her hits doesn't help either. Only 2 supernovas did all of this to bm while kaidou solo'd 4 supernovas.
And Pudding better no be the '' puts full bm pirates crew to sleep to change their memories at the same time'' broken and conveninet plot tool.
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@Kaido:
At this point I really don't know what it takes to impress you, so I'm sorry Big Mom's not fitting these imaginary power/strength feat levels you have in your head.
What'd it take to impress me ? Idk maybe destroy the castle ? And even that isn't up to par with let's say what Mihawk did with the iceberg.They are not imaginary.Oda set a tone in MF,he has showcased other top tiers doing impressive things.
Luffy has smashed people off islands. Several people have told you that already. You really need to stop using that as some sort of example. By your logic, Big Mom destroying buildings is not impressive because Luffy has also done so…so why is Kaido knocking people off islands somehow special when Luffy did it too?
We don't know exactly what happened with Wapol and Buggy.For all we know they ended up somewhere nearby and then left.Kaido also fell down shook an island and cupsized a couple of ships.Without lifting a finger.
What is there to compare?
I mean, seriously. Gear Fourth caused all that destruction because it turned Doflamingo into a projectile. It didn't destroy massive amounts of structures with raw power alone like Big Mom did. Also, keep in mind that Oda put a lot more focus on the destruction in those scenes because he wanted to showcase Gear Fourth's power. As I've said before, Oda does not really put focus on these feats of strength from Big Mom because he's trying to portray other things. Just because he doesn't portray a character's power first and foremost doesn't make the character weak.
Seriously dude ? Do you even physics ? Luffy launching Doflamingo like that is more impressive since the damage was done by flamingo's body.Were Luffy to directly punch the ground for example he'd do even more damage.Not this again.How does Oda introduce his stronger characters do you remember ? The only thing even remotely close to the other guys was her storm thingy but that has also been neglected now so that Reiju can tank her attacks.
Yeah I don't really know what to say to you at this point. You seem to only enjoy characters based on how "cool" and "impressive" they look. I really don't know why you're reading this series.
I've been reading this series for 7 years.I've enjoyed a lot of characters,I kept reading even after the whole Dressrosa climax fiasco with the shitty count down.I like Big Mom.I love the series but that doesn't mean I can't complain.You guys may not want to admit it but OP is also a battle manga.Whether you like it or not.
But is that the point though? Are we supposed to see Big Mom first and foremost as a massive tank who picks off her enemies left her right; a truly powerful foe? No! Because this arc isn't focused on battle! It's focused on character development, and thus it is her character that has received loads of detailed paneltime. We see Kaido's strength feats hyped up because he's the guy getting a big battle. Oda's not going to hype up a character aspect that he isn't going to devote too much attention to (well, he did with Smoothie, and we know how that turned out). If a character is supposed to be fought, we see their feats of strength. If a character is supposed to play another role, we learn a lot about their personality and history. Big Mom is definitely in the second camp here.
How am I not supposed to see BM as a powerful foe ? Do you even understand what her title means ?She's a damn Yonko.Also how is this arc not focused on battle ? We've had battles in this arc and we'll also have more now.This logic of yours simply doesn't make sense.Oda both did show Doflamingo's personality and history and his damn strength.I want him to do the same with BM.
I mean, I agree to an extent: Big Mom's feats of strength have not been displayed enough to make her an impactful final boss. So good thing she's not a final boss, and I don't have to care about how much her strength has been built up; I can just enjoy it as it gets displayed in various situations.
What ? If BM is not an arc villain then what the hell is she ?
Physically? Yes, we have seen strong giants. The only people we've seen that have been physical matches for giants are Big Mom, Whitebeard (of course), Luffy, and Machvise. Machvise lost his battle with Hajrudin. Luffy only decisively defeated Hajrudin because of the Colosseum's confinements. Oimo and Kashi wrecked the Marines when they turned on them and it took tactics, rather than physical force for the Franky Family to take them down. Mr. 3 used trickery on Dorry and Brogy and was never shown to be any sort of physical match to them. Kuzan is an Admiral with a really powerful Logia so of course he should be able to hang with a giant - a giant, mind you, that had flipped over an entire Marine battleship prior to this.
We have several humans outclassing the giants physically not only the ones you mentioned.
So for Big Mom to outmatch giants physically, and render their attacks null and void, at the age of 5? That is indeed impressive.
It was but how does Oda follow up ? By having Bege tank multiple attacks from her and Reiju being fine.Again WB babyshakes Ace in his freaking sleep,Does all the things he did in MF,Shanks splits the sky with WB and commands respect at MF,Kaido drops from the heavens and wrecks a supernova alliance and BM can't even knock down freaking Reiju.Like seriously.
I like the arc.It's just that Oda has failed to represent BM as the major threat she is.Again manga is a medium where you also show not only tell.
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Joy Boy, don't worry, we and you will get impressed next chapter or at least the second-next chapter. I'd be really surprised if BM won't deliver now and show all of us doubting readers what it really means to be a Yonko.
In fact, I think this "lackluster" feeling you describe is exactly what Oda wants us to feel… in order to WTF surprise us and hit us hard when BM really starts now...
So let's just wait and let Big Mom start her great show!
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@Kaido:
I wouldn't expect parity between the Yonko and their top fighters, that would be a lot of potential for mutiny there. Also I don't think Oda's regretted making the Yonko as strong as they are.
I guess…
Although Luffy "defeated" Cracker, I don't have much of an issue with how that was dealt with. I agree with some others who have been underwhelmed by Smoothie, who is very well-designed but seems to be of no use. Katakuri seems useful, but Jack/Marco/Jozu had much more impressive introductions. Given their analogs in other powerful crews, not treating the commanders similarly seems like a missed opportunity.
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@Joy:
We don't know exactly what happened with Wapol and Buggy.For all we know they ended up somewhere nearby and then left.Kaido also fell down shook an island and cupsized a couple of ships.Without lifting a finger.
We don't know what exactly happened to those goons. For all we know, they landed in the ocean nearby and swam right back!
Buggy being in a completely different location (presumably, he built a shoddy raft on small island you can see behind him) at the beginning of his cover story shows that he was nowhere nearby. If he was, his crew wouldn't have been left in Orange Town, and he would've gone there first since he wanted his body parts back.
And Wapol was obviously blown out of the Drum Island climate area to a whole new location. He cannot swim, so there's no way he was coincidentally blown into the ocean nearby, saved by people, and taken somewhere else (why wouldn't something like that be mentioned or even alluded to).
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@Joy:
What'd it take to impress me ? Idk maybe destroy the castle ? And even that isn't up to par with let's say what Mihawk did with the iceberg.They are not imaginary.Oda set a tone in MF,he has showcased other top tiers doing impressive things.
Well, Oda also set a tone in that Elbaf flashback with her 5 years old-self.
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@Joy:
How am I not supposed to see BM as a powerful foe ? Do you even understand what her title means ?She's a damn Yonko.Also how is this arc not focused on battle ? We've had battles in this arc and we'll also have more now.This logic of yours simply doesn't make sense.Oda both did show Doflamingo's personality and history and his damn strength.I want him to do the same with BM.
What ? If BM is not an arc villain then what the hell is she ?
I never said she wasn't an arc villain. She's not going to be defeated however, and her worth does not lie in extreme battle strength because whatever climactic battle happens at the end of the arc isn't going to be what sells her character. Do you think Big Mom will be defeated at the end of the arc? Maybe that's where we're not seeing eye to eye, because I'm pretty strongly convicted that she won't.
And no, this arc is not focused on battle. I dunno if you've noticed but there haven't been too many conclusive fights in this arc, and many of them have been offscreened. The entire objective of the protagonists has been to invade Whole Cake Island and leave without a battle, and they've stuck to that as much as they've could.
Also, pretty much everything ARTEMlS said. Luffy's time is up, her time is now. Have fun with the next few chapters.
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Instead of questioning the mental competence of your respected fellow member why don't you actually try proving him or her incorrect?!
Joy Boy is correct in that Oda has failed to represent Big letdown as an Emperor.
Seeing how Whitebeard had school in session on Marineford and Kaido wrapped up three novas like Casey Anthony did a baby.
Blackbeard wrecked Revolutionaries and the remnant of Whitebeard pirates.
Where is Big Mac at?We didn't see any of that so would that also fall in-line with "Oda failed visually"?
Or are we just ignoring facts here because Oda isn't spending every dialogue, and panel over Big Mom destroying/killing someone because lol?
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@Joy:
….Are you seriously try to pass buildings as something impressive ? Like seriously bro ? Luffy in East Blue wrecked Arlong's building with a single kick.Luffy in base could sent Hody flying destroying city blocks,not buildings.
I love how you keep bringing up the whole "IT WAS EAST BLUE" like it really matters.
I can't believe I have to state the obvious here, but Luffy pulled that off, with the help of his rubber powers, when he was 17 years old, and had a much better grasp of his fruit.
Big Mom did that at the age of five, and flipped a giant like nothing just by using her physical strength.
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Maybe Oda failed to represent her as an Emperor to you
But if we're going to follow your own logic, her crew took down multiple Supernovas(just like Kaido, offscreen), her territory has been shown to be the hardest place to break into, maybe even more so than Impel Down. It required having someone with inside knowledge and credibility to lie for them (Pekoms) and even then they were still caught in the trap because of Pudding and the surveillance from Homies. She was able to successfully trick the Vinsmokes into literally parking all of their technology and weapons at her door, get them to let their guard down and walk into her home without their weapons.
Except for Whitebeard on Marineford(which if you didn't know, ended with half of his face off, a hole in his body, and dozens if cuts and bullet wounds even before Blackbeard showd) all of those amazing feats you mentioned are offscreen hype builders. Which Big Mom has had herself both through what we've seen in the flashbacks, what she did to the Supernovas, and seeing her influence in the New World such as on Fishman Island.
You using ridiculous names for Linlin like every Narutoforums user doesn't invalidate the clear things shown putting her up there with the other Emperors and Dragon. One Piece isn't about just having characters all be Kaido/Whitebeard like powerhouses that go in, wreck some people offscreen to prove their strength, and then have a one-on-one fight to end off the arc.
If she's "failing" to be represented as an Emperor in your eyes, then I don't think you understand what the 4 Emperors are. They're not some arbitrary level of strength, they're four unique pirates that have conquered a part of the New World and have remained a giant influence. That much has ABSOLUTELY been shown with her hold on Fishman Island, her connections to the Underworld brokers who were seen in Punk Hazard, and now in Whole Cake, her huge territory and it's security, and her ransacking of other islands for ingredients. We've been shown crystal clear that her crew is a huge problem in the New World.
We know that the emperors hold large territories and influence and crew members [Even though Big Meme's have been incompetent]. This was displayed but when Garp comes in and says they are the four most powerful pirates they TOO must demonstrate THAT feat of their arsenal. I know what an Emperor is suppose to be like cause that's what Oda says. So far, Big dud hasn't displayed any powerhouse feats. While enraged, Reju took a direct attack!!!
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We didn't see any of that so would that also fall in-line with "Oda failed visually"?
Or are we just ignoring facts here because Oda isn't spending every dialogue, and panel over Big Mom destroying/killing someone because lol?.
Oda off-paneling a Emperor taking candy from babies is worthy. It's not a real fight so it ain't worth showing. Big Meme getting dodged by base luffy and jimbei, Reiju taking a direct hit from her. Even gloated saying, hey it's gonna take more! lol.
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Oda off-paneling a Emperor taking candy from babies is worthy. It's not a real fight so it ain't worth showing. Big Meme getting dodged by base luffy and jimbei, Reiju taking a direct hit, from her and even gloated saying hey it's gonna take more! lol.
What proof do you have that it wasn't a real fight? What if Kid managed to take Kaido's first few attacks and keep standing before his defeat? What if Apoo managed to dodge a mace swing? What if Hawkins escaped?
This is going to sound REALLY weird coming from me, but stop sucking Kaido's dick. This thread has so many false equivalences, where Kaido's offscreen achievements are hyped up to infinity, while Big Mom's actions are always held up to the standard we would imagine Kaido doing. Yeah no, Kaido would totally knock a strong fighter out in a single attack. Yeah no, Kaido's attack power would rip everything within 100 meters to shreds. Yeah no, Kaido would defeat Supernovas in mere seconds! This is getting really annoying, and y'all are gonna be in for a rude awakening come Wano if you keep this up.
Fact is, the Yonko don't just exist to provide shonen eye candy. They're not tough dudes whose only purpose is to do cool things and have epic battles with the protagonists (if that was the case then Katakuri would be a Yonko). They are characters with their own goals, desires, and weaknesses that Oda has showed a great care in developing. To that extent, he does not always use the Yonko just for battle, just as he did not use the Shichibukai. Remember these guys? The uber-powerful warriors of the sea? Not all of them were built up just to be powerful antagonists. Boa Hancock had battle skills but ended up becoming an ally and playing a support role, which mostly didn't involve fighting. Kuma was strong but almost all the focus on him was based around his loss of humanity. Moriah, though a final arc boss, was weak and the fight against him was more than just a Shichibukai takedown. Weevil's stated to be strong but none of the focus has been on his battle skills so far.
Since Kaido's main role is final boss, of course his strength is going to be hyped up because it'll be the thing that sells his character the most. Big Mom? Well yeah, she's strong. It's ignorant to say she isn't. But we're not going to have her displays of strength front and center when this arc isn't a giant battle arc with her being the scary final boss that has to be taken down. We'll see her use her strength where it's needed, not make it the one focus of the arc when the arc is supposed to be focused on other things.
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What'd it take to impress me ?
Did you ever consider that Oda hasn't been trying to impress you?
Because Big Mom isn't seriously fighting?
Like, not at all?
She's pissed, sure. But she's not seriously taking any of these threats.
She's laughing while doing all of this because of how amusing it is to her that these chumps think they can get away with this.
If you're not recognizing that then it doesn't matter whether you've read the series for 7 years or 20, you're not recognizing Oda's rhythm.
Let's talk about this again when Mom gets serious (if she even needs to ^o^) and then again when/if she goes berserker.
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So basically, what Greg is saying is that BM doesn't need to get serious because to her, they're all just flies. Flies that she could swat with just two fingers easily.
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Where are those saying Bege is more reliable that Law?
He wen through with the plan, hold his end of the bargain and is helping them escape despite not getting his price. I am not sure how he is more unreliable than Law that gave them a bogey plan in the first place.
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@Kaido:
Just because someone doesn't have the mettle to stand up to her doesn't mean they're a fodder. The Straw Hats have always pulled off special feats of courage rivaled by few others.
It is about not fearing death. If regular brave guy Sanji is considered as not fearing it basically means any brave character that does actually want to face is guaranteed to not be affected by it. There's no reason Killer or Cavendish would fear death more than Sanji. It is a move that only serve for a few weak minded individuals and is pretty guaranteed to be render ineffective by any important character. Which I don't like. It is unimportant but I don't like it.
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It is about not fearing death. If regular brave guy Sanji is considered as not fearing it basically means any brave character that does actually want to face is guaranteed to not be affected by it. There's no reason Killer or Cavendish would fear death more than Sanji. It is a move that only serve for a few weak minded individuals and is pretty guaranteed to be render ineffective by any important character. Which I don't like. It is unimportant but I don't like it.
Pedro was brave and he got his soul sucked out. So there.
But yeah. In combat, it's probably not going to work if the other party is going in without fear. If it is able to work on Sanji, he will be dead, and so Oda has to tread a line to prevent it from being overpowered/another Parasite. Big Mom uses it on her subjects when she's domineering over them, and not once has she used it in battle. That's what Prometheus and Zeus are for.
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Seems this chapter concluded Sanji's relationship with his family but man, I still want to see him kick his brother's faces in.
Greg, please tell me this will happen. Please!
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@All:
Seems this chapter concluded Sanji's relationship with his family but man, I still want to see him kick his brother's faces in.
Greg, please tell me this will happen. Please!
I still wonder if Reiju will cause that. Will they simply let her leave?
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@Kaido:
What proof do you have that it wasn't a real fight? What if Kid managed to take Kaido's first few attacks and keep standing before his defeat? What if Apoo managed to dodge a mace swing? What if Hawkins escaped?
This is going to sound REALLY weird coming from me, but stop sucking Kaido's dick. This thread has so many false equivalences, where Kaido's offscreen achievements are hyped up to infinity, while Big Mom's actions are always held up to the standard we would imagine Kaido doing. Yeah no, Kaido would totally knock a strong fighter out in a single attack. Yeah no, Kaido's attack power would rip everything within 100 meters to shreds. Yeah no, Kaido would defeat Supernovas in mere seconds! This is getting really annoying, and y'all are gonna be in for a rude awakening come Wano if you keep this up.
Fact is, the Yonko don't just exist to provide shonen eye candy. They're not tough dudes whose only purpose is to do cool things and have epic battles with the protagonists (if that was the case then Katakuri would be a Yonko). They are characters with their own goals, desires, and weaknesses that Oda has showed a great care in developing. To that extent, he does not always use the Yonko just for battle, just as he did not use the Shichibukai. Remember these guys? The uber-powerful warriors of the sea? Not all of them were built up just to be powerful antagonists. Boa Hancock had battle skills but ended up becoming an ally and playing a support role, which mostly didn't involve fighting. Kuma was strong but almost all the focus on him was based around his loss of humanity. Moriah, though a final arc boss, was weak and the fight against him was more than just a Shichibukai takedown. Weevil's stated to be strong but none of the focus has been on his battle skills so far.
Since Kaido's main role is final boss, of course his strength is going to be hyped up because it'll be the thing that sells his character the most. Big Mom? Well yeah, she's strong. It's ignorant to say she isn't. But we're not going to have her displays of strength front and center when this arc isn't a giant battle arc with her being the scary final boss that has to be taken down. We'll see her use her strength where it's needed, not make it the one focus of the arc when the arc is supposed to be focused on other things.
Big meme's strength came into play when the things she cares about most have been violated. She wants revenge, now her power has to answer. Kaido lands, then Kidd is in bed sleep without being burped and with the dirty diaper still firmly attached. Same way Big meme pwned Brooke off-pane, unlike her tho, Kaido wasn't scratched facing much more enemies. BTW, I am not inserting Kaido's secrets into my mouth. I just state what was shown and how Oda portrayed Kaido's strength by disposing of novas camps all by himself! I am not getting my hopes up for Oda's writing concerning Kaido either.
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Because Big Mom isn't seriously fighting?
She isn't fighting at all. That's not what I call "fighting".
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If BM has classic ''villain underestimates main character'' thing, even after he wrecked her wedding, plans, cake and one of her sweet commanders, then what does bm need to get serious? Luffy punching her so hard it hurts?
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wanted to find All Blue so I'll do it…
You know?
You should reread it. Sanji wanted to find All Blue long before he met Zeff. He just happened to share the same dream. He's not doing it because of Zeff.
And if you think following teachings of one's father makes a person "empty", man, i don't even know what to say.
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You should reread it. Sanji wanted to find All Blue long before he met Zeff. He just happened to share the same dream. He's not doing it because of Zeff.
And if you think following teachings of one's father makes a person "empty", man, i don't even know what to say.
Well, don't need to reread it, since you jogged my memory.
There's nothing wrong with having difference in opinions. Just feel Sanji would be a better character if he toned down Zeff's influence a little and justified his moves with his own moral standards. Then again, there's a reason why he isn't a leader of his own crew.
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I feel "Sanji Breeze" comming out of last two chapters.
With him out in the open I hope that we will get to see his "Gear Fourth".
As seen on last panel in this chapter Sanjis kick is somehow compared to Luffys Elephant Gun and we do know that Luffy has much much more in store. Same as with Zoro and his Asura that was absent since timeskip ended.
If Sanji is part of monster trio he is using Diable Jambe as his "basic strong attack" we are yet to see guy go all out. With them being in front of people with strength around Cracker strength Sanji will need to bust a move to get out of this situation. It would also make all more dramatic if both Luffy and Sanji would go all out.
I have my not dying wish of Sanji using life return and looking bit bigger and more bizzare(maybe alike to Baki Dou manga characters) even bit Okamish in facial structure(it would be hell of a reason to keep that sort of power up as worst case scenario thing). Luffy in Gear Fourth and Sanji using his trump ability would be super cool on panel.
I just do not want to believe that Diable Jambe variations are all that there is to Sanji. Blue Diable Jambe I would approve yet still I urge for something more and I hope that Oda knows what he builded up in Sanji fan like me. Usually I do not get high expectations but In current situation I feel almost the same as when Luffy bitten into his own arm and said "Gear Fourth" at end of chapter where he fought Doflamingo.
Now they are against Yonko and at Least 2x Doffy tier fighters + people like Owen or Daifuku(Sanji beat his ass black and blue ! ).
And of course with Cesar flying I think that Tamago(or rather Count Niwatori) will play a role in making it difficult for Alliance to escape. Sanji beating Daifukus ass and then getting all out aerial fight with Count Niwatori a french themmed chicken man would be my dream scenario for this arc.
I hope I am not in for something dissapointing. Just few more weeks to go I guess !
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Greg, please tell me this will happen. Please!
I don't know what's more surprising.
That so many fan of One Piece would act like Usopp rather than Luffy ?
Or that they think Greg is Rayliegh ? -
Oh and to add to "Sanji will show his new trump card alike to Gear Fourth"- we are into arc when there will be head on conflict with Kaido and Sanji being part of Luffys top cannot go against people that are less impressive than lets say Cracker. Cracker dealt with ease with attack power of Gear 3rd. Sanji shown his kick is comparable to Gear 3rd in last weeks ending. Now we gotta see more to be excited for Sanjis fights to come. At leas I do need that..
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Well I like the exchange between judge and sanji
Bigmom shown that she is kaidou level the moment we saw she killed one of elbaf leaders and destroyed the village at 5 years old people want to see her oneshot everyone and end the manga ?
And let's not talk about sanji hitting bigmom till we get a better view of that clash next chapter -
@Kaido:
Why is it impressive that he trashed two goons? They're goons. The type of goons that Luffy or Sanji would take care of in about two seconds. Meanwhile Big Mom put dozens of goons out of commission with a scream.
Totally agree. Whereas I can see why Big Mom may seem lackluster, looking at his actual shown feats Kaido really isn't any better (as pointed out by Kaido - that irony). He trashed someone and sent him off flying to the horizon? Nothing special as already pointed out often enough this is done by others as well. He survived a fall from thousands of kilometers? So did Gedatsu. Really, I don't want to completely downplay his feats, but what was displayed really wasn't THAT outstanding by One Piece standards.
However, what would be outstanding - and I'm already totally hyped for it and so hope it will happen - is if he actually would do the same he did to these goons to Zunisha. THAT would be an awesome feats which especially is eye-candy as well. This also is something which I'd consider actually unique as I have problems to see Akainu (just no) or even Whitebeard (maybe in his prime, but we'll never know) pull that off for guaranteed. I really can picture that scene which gives us a proper reasoning why he really is the King of the Beasts.
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However, what would be outstanding - and I'm already totally hyped for it and so hope it will happen - is if he actually would do the same he did to these goons to Zunisha. THAT would be an awesome feats which especially is eye-candy as well. This also is something which I'd consider actually unique as I have problems to see Akainu (just no) or even Whitebeard (maybe in his prime, but we'll never know) pull that off for guaranteed. I really can picture that scene which gives us a proper reasoning why he really is the King of the Beasts.
If you think about it, Oda may have already set up such a scenario by having Momo spend time with Zunisha at first and not going straight back to Wano with the others. Since Momonosuke will be such an integral part of the Wano Arc and the Minks are also promised to play a role there as a fighting faction, plus Oda's inclination to use characters in the New World over the course of more than just one arc (think of Cesar, who plays a role in every arc since Punk Hazard), I also think that Zunisha arriving at Wano and be defeated by Kaido is a strong possibility.
In addition, kaido's naming as the "World's strongest creature/thing" always makes me suspicious that Oda may want to prove his strength in a battle with something non-human.
But regardless if Zunisha will come into Wano, I think it's likely that Luffy won't defeat Kaido the first time he battles him. I imagine a situation comparable to the fight against Crocodile at Rain Base, which could also mean that Luffy again may at first be out of the picture when the Wano battle starts only to return later.
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@Simone:
She isn't fighting at all. That's not what I call "fighting".
This is my point.
All Fiction,
My next column is on precisely that topic. It'll be out Wednesday.
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Shonen logic dictates that for a character to show their greatest feats they must be near death/defeat, no point in showcasing BM at max power now and delivering instantly what can be saved up for later.
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A kid with a slingshot can throw a rock more far than the strongest man in the world with his hands
Except that Luffy doesn't attack by taking the enemy into his hands and doing a slingshot motion in order to throw him away.
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I hope that once they begin their escape and fly away, Big Mom chases after them by riding Zeus like the Flying Nimbus from Dragonball.
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This is my point.
All Fiction,
My next column is on precisely that topic. It'll be out Wednesday.
Thank you~
16 chars.
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Did you ever consider that Oda hasn't been trying to impress you?
Because Big Mom isn't seriously fighting?
Like, not at all?
She's pissed, sure. But she's not seriously taking any of these threats.
She's laughing while doing all of this because of how amusing it is to her that these chumps think they can get away with this.
If you're not recognizing that then it doesn't matter whether you've read the series for 7 years or 20, you're not recognizing Oda's rhythm.
Let's talk about this again when Mom gets serious (if she even needs to ^o^) and then again when/if she goes berserker.
Yeah, think of the phases Whitebeard went through in the battle at Marineford. Casually starting off and wrecking people with ease. Then after Ace died, he turned Super Saiyan, fucked up Akainu, all of Marine Ford, and split a giant gaping hole in the Earth. Big Mom is still in the casual stage
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Big meme's strength came into play when the things she cares about most have been violated. She wants revenge, now her power has to answer. Kaido lands, then Kidd is in bed sleep without being burped and with the dirty diaper still firmly attached. Same way Big meme pwned Brooke off-pane, unlike her tho, Kaido wasn't scratched facing much more enemies. BTW, I am not inserting Kaido's secrets into my mouth. I just state what was shown and how Oda portrayed Kaido's strength by disposing of novas camps all by himself! I am not getting my hopes up for Oda's writing concerning Kaido either.
But what WAS shown though? Nothing. The fight against the Novas was offscreened - not necessarily because it was super one-sided, but because it didn't have too much direct relevance to the main characters, and Oda has a tendency to offscreen stuff like that. Examples being Blackbeard Pirates vs. Revolutionaries, Jack vs. the Marines, hell even Ace vs. Blackbeard, once we learned about Blackbeard's powers and fighting style. How do you know Kaido wasn't scratched by any of the Supernovas? How do you know he took care of them quickly? Sounds like a lot of imagination to me.
@uniaka:
If BM has classic ''villain underestimates main character'' thing, even after he wrecked her wedding, plans, cake and one of her sweet commanders, then what does bm need to get serious? Luffy punching her so hard it hurts?
Yep. From their conversation in Chapter 847, it's clear that Big Mom views herself as superior, and is willing to play around with people like the Straw Hats because of how much of a power gap she thinks there is. She even let them get to Whole Cake Island just so she could play with them. It would take some serious fighting from the Straw Hats to get her to go hardcore. Funny thing is, though, I think this time we'll see a villain be justified in their underestimation.
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am i the only one who doesn't understand why the Big Mom pirates are all pissed off at Bege/Luffy alliance trying to assassinate her, when that is the EXACT same thing the Big Mom pirates were going to do to Sanji and the Vinsmokes as well????? :ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja:
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He trashed someone and sent him off flying to the horizon? Nothing special as already pointed out often enough this is done by others as well. He survived a fall from thousands of kilometers? So did Gedatsu. Really, I don't want to completely downplay his feats, but what was displayed really wasn't THAT outstanding by One Piece standards.
Haha I agree with this. Many characters in OP are definitely ridiculous in durability .Pell surviving 5-km scale bomb in his face , Zoro/Sanji survived a million of volts . When Oda said "Kaidou survived spear attacks and swords" , I was like "wait, is that supposed to make him looked strong?"
So next week Luffy/Sanji vs Big Mom …. and Luffy barely able to beat Doflamingo . Sanji will get stomped in 1 panel . 2 panels , if he used CoA.
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Haha I agree with this. Many characters in OP are definitely ridiculous in durability .Pell surviving 5-km scale bomb in his face , Zoro/Sanji survived a million of volts . When Oda said "Kaidou survived spear attacks and swords" , I was like "wait, is that supposed to make him looked strong?"
So next week Luffy/Sanji vs Big Mom …. and Luffy barely able to beat Doflamingo . Sanji will get stomped in 1 panel . 2 panels , if he used CoA.
In battle, people are tough. They display feats of durability. But if they lose, and are at someone's mercy, they're dead if nothing intervenes. Kaido managed to survive while at someone's mercy, and he didn't just survive the attack, he rendered it completely ineffective and broke it.
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Except that Luffy doesn't attack by taking the enemy into his hands and doing a slingshot motion in order to throw him away.
Gomu Gomu Bazooka is charged by extending his arms very far behind and then releasing them. It's the exact same effect that powers a slingshot.
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Gomu Gomu Bazooka is charged by extending his arms very far behind and then releasing them. It's the exact same effect that powers a slingshot.
Not really, Gum-Gum Bazooka is more like snipping rubber bands against something. A slingshot actually accelerates the ammo and there is no impact between it and the rubber, unlike Gum-Gum Bazooka.
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@Kaido:
But what WAS shown though? Nothing. The fight against the Novas was offscreened
Still the fact remains, he landed alone in the middle of several Supernovas and came out victorious. Even if they put up a fight, even if it turns out that this was made possible by one or more crews turning against the other guys - did they maybe think that the odds were against them despite how outnumbered he was ? Not to mention a guy like Jack has enough respect (or fear) to consider him his captain. Cue all the narrator hype about being the strongest pirate alive, unkillable and so on. There is definitely more to his strength than just sending two random goons through the roof…
Not saying Big Mom's weak or anything, though. I wonder, however, if she ever gets serious at all. The way she fights at the moment seems just as carefree and childish as the rest of her character - she throws tantrums of lightning and fire, swings wildly like an angered gorilla…Hell, she even climbs castles and punches walls down. What is she, King Kong ? Lots of damage if it connects, yet doesn't feel anywhere as threatening as Doflamingo's focused attacks did. He landed quite a few hits on Luffy; so did Cracker; Mama has yet to, which I find hard to buy. She certainly doesn't pull her punches, but it's like she's not trying very hard either. Maybe she never needed to - with her strength, one hit is all it takes to topple most enemies. I'm wondering if Oda has any intention of showing her get any more serious than this.
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@Kaido:
But what WAS shown though? Nothing. The fight against the Novas was offscreened - not necessarily because it was super one-sided, but because it didn't have too much direct relevance to the main characters, and Oda has a tendency to offscreen stuff like that. Examples being Blackbeard Pirates vs. Revolutionaries, Jack vs. the Marines, hell even Ace vs. Blackbeard, once we learned about Blackbeard's powers and fighting style. How do you know Kaido wasn't scratched by any of the Supernovas? How do you know he took care of them quickly? Sounds like a lot of imagination to me…..
Introduction of Kaido's strength. It was simply hype for Kaido. He owns novas and even calls them "little pirate games," then makes fun of them beating a few Shichibukai. It was all to demonstrate Kaido's dominance. Wasn't for the novas.
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Still the fact remains, he landed alone in the middle of several Supernovas and came out victorious. Even if they put up a fight, even if it turns out that this was made possible by one or more crews turning against the other guys - did they maybe think that the odds were against them despite how outnumbered he was ? Not to mention a guy like Jack has enough respect (or fear) to consider him his captain. Cue all the narrator hype about being the strongest pirate alive, unkillable and so on. There is definitely more to his strength than just sending two random goons through the roof…
Not saying Big Mom's weak or anything, though. I wonder, however, if she ever gets serious at all. The way she fights at the moment seems just as carefree and childish as the rest of her character - she throws tantrums of lightning and fire, swings wildly like an angered gorilla…Hell, she even climbs castles and punches walls down. What is she, King Kong ? Lots of damage if it connects, yet doesn't feel anywhere as threatening as Doflamingo's focused attacks did. He landed quite a few hits on Luffy; so did Cracker; Mama has yet to, which I find hard to buy. She certainly doesn't pull her punches, but it's like she's not trying very hard either. Maybe she never needed to - with her strength, one hit is all it takes to topple most enemies. I'm wondering if Oda has any intention of showing her get any more serious than this.
You've made a pretty nice description of Mama's character and her fighting abilities. So I would say "definitely no" to your last sentence. This arc has never been structured with a full fight against Big Mom in mind. We've been shown how powerful she is where she kills a bear with 1 hit because she was scolding him as a little child. And we've been shown how she is in essence still a child today. Just a very big one. She isn't going to do more than what she's doing right now. That's enough to deal with the small fry that's currently bothering her. And the small fry know it too.