Chapter 868: KX Launcher
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What is she doing? is she attempting to free her hands?
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btw, seems like Cabbage has more ships to add to Luffy's fleet, navigating in the NW just to marry Cabbage, those girls surely could be strong fighters:ninja:
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What is she doing? is she attempting to free her hands?
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Just out of curiosity, I want to ask the "Big Mom didn't eat them" camp:
What will your initial thoughts be if it's 100% confirmed that she did indeed cannibalize them and it's as straightforward as we were led to believe?
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man when they animated this chapter I hope it's just 15 minutes of everyone screaming
Set Art by Daily Rowlet -
Just out of curiosity, I want to ask the "Big Mom didn't eat them" camp:
What will your initial thoughts be if it's 100% confirmed that she did indeed cannibalize them and it's as straightforward as we were led to believe?
Um… That's completely fine? I'm not against the child cannibalism for it being "too dark" at all, in fact, I like it. I'm only presenting the possibility that the situation might not be clear-cut as it seems because it looks a bit suspicious. I find total cannibalism still being more likely. I personally really want Big Mom to learn the truth about Carmel either way, but that's not completely necessary for the plot.
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@Count:
Um… That's completely fine? I'm not against the child cannibalism for it being "too dark" at all, in fact, I like it. I'm only presenting the possibility that the situation might not be clear-cut as it seems because it looks a bit suspicious. I find total cannibalism still being more likely. I personally really want Big Mom to learn the truth about Carmel either way, but that's not completely necessary for the plot.
I feel 101% the same way.
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This was a chapter of nothing but facial expressions. Seriously, Oda kills all momentum with the multiple flashback interruptions.
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Well, besides being new here, I tend to avoid the upcoming chapter discussion once spoilers start hitting other sites.
Has anyone else addressed the idea that Bege Capone's new form is likely the "awakened" ability of his Devil Fruit?
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Anyone else think there could be more to Big Mom's hat?
Also the whole idea of "eating a devil fruit user gives you the devil fruit power" seems more and more like bull crap to me the more I think about it. Which leads me to believe Big Mom didn't eat her Big Mom something else went down that day. I hope Vegapunk shows up soon and clears some DF issues up because honestly the rules of them and how Oda is going to handle how they work is starting to worry me. I liked the S.A.D. fruits and the explanation behind that and I know I need to reread Punk Hazard but why didn't Luffy an them question the process of how C.C. turned Smiley' power back into a fruit? The whole Blackbeard taking Whitebeards fruit situation still keeps me up at night and I hate the theories that it was "because Black Beard was just born special" or that "his devil fruit allows him to suck out the devil fruit power like a blachhole". So you are telling me B.B. not only was born "special" and able to hold two fruits but somehow he became aware of his special body ad set forth a plan to add another fruit to his body? Did it tell him how to do some of this miracle work in that book her read about devil fruits? If he had to eat a piece of Whitebeard wouldn't Whitebeard have to still be alive at the time for it to work? Why did Oda go out of his way to have a spectator say that nothing physically looked altered on Whitebeard after the process took place? Why did the "awakened zoans" in Impel Down seem like near mindless drones but a awakened paramecia or Logia just makes you super hax that seems to make zoan type look even more suuuuper weak compared to the other types. We still need to see how a devil fruit can be added to an item or weapon as well. So many unanswered questions and how it is all handled I hate to say it but will really cement just how tell written the story of One Piece is considering Devil Fruits are probably one of the coolest most intriguing features of the story.
All Luffy/ Usopp need to do is gomu gomu no slingshot a DF user dwarf down their enemies throats from now on and they should die I guess. -
Can I just say that I love this picture of young pirate Linlin? The hat she's wearing makes her look just like a real witch.
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Still… What does she put lifespans into to summon Zeus? If Prometheus is born from fire, then I guess that Zeus would come from smoke?
--- Update From New Post Merge ---
Well, besides being new here, I tend to avoid the upcoming chapter discussion once spoilers start hitting other sites.
Has anyone else addressed the idea that Bege Capone's new form is likely the "awakened" ability of his Devil Fruit?
I suggested this in the spoiler thread. I like the idea that the "weakest" Supernova learned Awakening before Luffy did.
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she could probably make Zeus out of, like, fog
fog is just ground clouds after all
Set Art by Daily Rowlet -
Fog makes perfect sense, but where can you make fog or find fog on the go? At least fire is common and can be made. Of course, Linlin seems to be able to spontaneously summon these Homies without putting lifespans into anything after first creating them.
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Well what a surprise. :ninja:
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Several other adults, eh?
Time to dust off that poll from 2011.
http://www.saiyanisland.com/2011/12/88-of-one-piece-fans-are-adults/Of course, I don't really know what the poll method was so I'm not sure how accurate the data is, but it's still impressive. How about that logic now?
Not sure how is that really relevant to Oda's target audience.
While yes many adults read the series, it doesn't mean that Oda specifically writes for them especially taking his 5-year-rule into account, and how he imagines himself as a teen in order to see which ideas sound the "coolest" to implement into the manga.
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Some people still don't think Big Mom ate them? What do they think the giant and Streusen saw, then?
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Some people still don't think Big Mom ate them? What do they think the giant and Streusen saw, then?
CP0 coming in, kidnapping everyone, killing Carmel and her devil leaving her body going to a nearby fruit that Big Mom ate apparently. What they DID with the body after she died (because it's not there when Linlin stopped eating so they did something with it)… we don't have an answer for yet.
As for my suggestion that Luffy could eat a person and whoever saying "He'd die from two fruits"... Blackbeard didn't die from two fruits so... obviously there's a way to do it.
As for Bege's devil fruit awakening... for sure, I didn't even think about that. That's awesome but I wonder how long he'll be able to hold that form. -
So this has me thinking. Obviously this wasn't surprising that the plan failed. Yet now we know it's for sure confirmed, let's think of the purpose of the arc.
1. I think there is very little chance Luffy will fight Big Mom and win with a fluke. This happening has benefits, but I think it's unlikely.
2. Will Big Mom somehow become an ally for Luffy? At this point, no since she's really angry at Luffy.
3. Will Luffy escape with crew and alliance? I think this may be likely, yet why even have this arc if Luffy doesn't benefit from it in anyway?Well, I think three is likely. They run away, with the treasure/one of the rune prints. Surely that is a reward, and they got Sanji back, and we learned more about his past. Sanji may have more backing from his father. Yet I think one thing it can do is give Luffy a significant reason to train even further, and become stronger. Yet that requires his whole crew to be united again so they can move on that as a whole. The Wano arc still has to resolve. I think this will give Zoro more ammo to critique Luffy. Maybe a falling out can happen between Zoro and Luffy? I think that might not happen, that could be pretty big and major and might cause a splinter in the crew to the point where half of them leave. Yet realistically, can the StrawHat Crew really remain tight knit as they move towards success with such big errors like that?
I mean I wonder sometimes. Does Luffy want to be king of the pirates, or does he simply want to have a journey and a great time? To me, it seems like the latter. This is why I think there is issues from Zoro, who notices Luffy isn't really taking things seriously. The thing is that I feel one day, Luffy will change. SOMETHING will happen that will change his desire from 'wha hee have fun under the sun' to 'fuck this whole government up and protect all my friends over the world due to this crazy shit or something'.
Anyway, if the arc isn't to help Luffy reconsider his strength, then I am not sure what major progress the arc would help the manga fulfill.
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@Count:
If the flashback ended at where it did last chapter, I wouldn't be making any fuss right now. But introducing a witness that is currently in the present time situation is a big thing to take into note. That's a dead ringer for a Chekov's gun.
Good point. Maybe it will happen at the resolution of this arc. Not at the moment though, so that all this tension is released and we laugh at Straw Hats and Friends freaking out.
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CP0 coming in, kidnapping everyone, killing Carmel and her devil leaving her body going to a nearby fruit that Big Mom ate apparently. What they DID with the body after she died (because it's not there when Linlin stopped eating so they did something with it)… we don't have an answer for yet.
As for my suggestion that Luffy could eat a person and whoever saying "He'd die from two fruits"... Blackbeard didn't die from two fruits so... obviously there's a way to do it.
As for Bege's devil fruit awakening... for sure, I didn't even think about that. That's awesome but I wonder how long he'll be able to hold that form.Then it wouldn't make sense for the giants to hate her or Streusen find her interesting.
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@Neo:
So this has me thinking. Obviously this wasn't surprising that the plan failed. Yet now we know it's for sure confirmed, let's think of the purpose of the arc.
1. I think there is very little chance Luffy will fight Big Mom and win with a fluke. This happening has benefits, but I think it's unlikely.
2. Will Big Mom somehow become an ally for Luffy? At this point, no since she's really angry at Luffy.
3. Will Luffy escape with crew and alliance? I think this may be likely, yet why even have this arc if Luffy doesn't benefit from it in anyway?Well, I think three is likely. They run away, with the treasure/one of the rune prints. Surely that is a reward, and they got Sanji back, and we learned more about his past. Sanji may have more backing from his father. Yet I think one thing it can do is give Luffy a significant reason to train even further, and become stronger. Yet that requires his whole crew to be united again so they can move on that as a whole. The Wano arc still has to resolve. I think this will give Zoro more ammo to critique Luffy. Maybe a falling out can happen between Zoro and Luffy? I think that might not happen, that could be pretty big and major and might cause a splinter in the crew to the point where half of them leave. Yet realistically, can the StrawHat Crew really remain tight knit as they move towards success with such big errors like that?
Then what about Fishman Island's safety, or the plotlines surrounding the Charlotte Family tension (Pudding and Big Mom, Chiffon and Pound, Lola in general), or Big Mom finally learning the truth that has been hidden to her from others, the illness finally getting cured or treated after all of this focus, or Pekoms finally doing something since there has to be some purpose for his presence? There's also the Tamatebako Box being opened, but we all know that's inevitable. I understand why escaping seems like the most probable option with how angry Big Mom looks right now, but these things demand resolutions. I don't think that they can be ignored or shoved into the backside until Elbaf rolls around (besides maybe Lola's wedding, because that's begging for a full flashback), because then all of the suspense and immersion is washed out. Not much is gained from this arc if they just escape aside from the Poneglyph scripts, and knowing a bit more about Sanji isn't relevant aside from worldbuilding that indirectly hypes up Vegapunk and MAYBE the Reverie.
Big Mom can say that she will never forgive the Straw Hats three times at midnight while looking at a mirror, and I will still expect her tone to change by the time the illness is dealt when she inevitably rampages and gets calmed down by Sanji's cooking (all this talk about how kind Sanji is and how he's valuable is going to payoff in a major way besides just saving the Vinsmokes).
I don't expect a fallout between Luffy and Zoro. Or any of the Straw Hats after this arc. Oda's done four crewmates threatening to leave the crew already, and Zoro disagreeing with Luffy is only going to be a rehash of Usopp disagreeing with Luffy. The point of that conflict in the Water 7 saga was to tackle what the Straw Hats would do if there was internal tension to split them apart. There's no need to retread that again after it effectively served its narrative purpose. And Luffy needing to train more was already the focus of the timeskip. At least with the four previous crewmates, the stakes kept getting bigger and the circumstances were different each time. Sanji's character arc itself seems like a fusion of how Nami, Robin, and Usopp respectively left the crew.
If anything, this arc is meant to give Luffy practice so that him defeating Kaido in the next arc feels more logical (and even then, I doubt he will do it alone for at least the first half of the fight). And Luffy's never going to change. If Ace's death didn't change him, then it's clear that Oda is fixated on Luffy maintaining his charismatic, but static personality. And honestly, that's fine. Luffy's personality and character is role is why he's such a lovable protagonist and how he's unique. So that shouldn't be taken away. Luffy wants to be the freest man in the seas, not barred down by any borders or obligations. That is how he defines the title of Pirate King in contrast to how many others look towards that title as being synonymous with becoming a despot who commands others under them. And that already meshes with how Luffy is in love with free-roaming romance and adventure in the wide blue sea.
I expect the Straw Hats to fight both the World Government and the Blackbeard Pirates in the Final War (mainly the latter, especially due to gradually growing in power, informal shonen law dictating that there be 1v1 final fights, as well as Teach being tied into the Void Century due to being the one evil D), but the stakes for Luffy will most likely only be personal, such as helping a friend in need or getting revenge on Akainu. He's not the type of be a selfless hero for the sake of an ideology, the manga keeps hammering this in again and again. The World Government and/or Blackbeard Pirates are more likely to start the war, with the Straw Hats' involvement being a response rather than a declaration. That's pretty much what Whitebeard's final speech implies. Wanting to destroy the corruption of the World Government is what the Revolutionaries and "good" Marines like Smoker, Tashigi, Coby, Fujitora, and Kuzan are going to do when they inevitably rebel against the system. In fact, that's why I expect Sabo to defeat Akainu instead of Luffy, which both avenges Ace and achieves a noble agenda that isn't solely selfish. A Marine civil war is something that's been foreshadowed ever since Axe Hand Morgan showed up in the Romance Dawn arc as the first corrupt Marine. And I expect the Reverie to be an effective catalyst, especially with all of the talk about abolishing the Warlord system that highlights the faults and presence of the World Government's conspiracies, although I don't think that Marine dissent will immediately happen then.
@Neo:
Good point. Maybe it will happen at the resolution of this arc. Not at the moment though, so that all this tension is released and we laugh at Straw Hats and Friends freaking out.
Of course. I wouldn't be surprised if it was saved for after a quelled Big Mom rampage.
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I'm with you in thinking that won't happen for all those reasons. AoT was the FIRST thing that popped in my head when I thought, "HOLY SH*T ODA!" ^o^ But depending how that memory affects Mom, or a clue at what that memory is, I think it will be settled fair and square.
That is very interesting. Streussan reveals the truth to Big Mom. She doesn't believe him and becomes very angry with him. Sanji has convinced Pudding to use her power on Big Mom. "I can confirm it from your memory." How, you say? Well, if she ate them, she would have seen it, through her unconscious eyes. She is unconscious when she goes on her rage eats right? This can cause her to truly redeem herself as a character, maybe.
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@Count:
Then what about Fishman Island's safety, or the plotlines surrounding the Charlotte Family tension (Pudding and Big Mom, Chiffon and Pound, Lola in general), or Big Mom finally learning the truth that has been hidden to her from others, the illness finally getting cured or treated after all of this focus, or Pekoms finally doing something since there has to be some purpose for his presence? There's also the Tamatebako Box being opened, but we all know that's inevitable. I understand why escaping seems like the most probable option with how angry Big Mom looks right now, but these things demand resolutions. I don't think that they can be ignored or shoved into the backside until Elbaf rolls around (besides maybe Lola's wedding, because that's begging for a full flashback), because then all of the suspense and immersion is washed out. Not much is gained from this arc if they just escape aside from the Poneglyph scripts, and knowing a bit more about Sanji isn't relevant aside from worldbuilding that indirectly hypes up Vegapunk and MAYBE the Reverie.
Big Mom can say that she will never forgive the Straw Hats three times at midnight while looking at a mirror, and I will still expect her tone to change by the time the illness is dealt when she inevitably rampages and gets calmed down by Sanji's cooking (all this talk about how kind Sanji is and how he's valuable is going to payoff in a major way besides just saving the Vinsmokes).
Good point, I was thinking that too. I do agree that simply escaping would be so, minimal, and it wouldn't progress the story that much. So I like what you say here. Thanks to your and others contributions to the thread I can see there being something regarding the Charlotte Family Tension, and just her discovering new things about her self which will probably fuel the plot somehow. Oh yeah the Tamatebako box. What would be funny is that she isn't even the one who opens it.
I can see Sanji doing that, yeah.@Count:
I don't expect a fallout between Luffy and Zoro. Or any of the Straw Hats after this arc. Oda's done four crewmates threatening to leave the crew already, and Zoro disagreeing with Luffy is only going to be a rehash of Usopp disagreeing with Luffy. The point of that conflict in the Water 7 saga was to tackle what the Straw Hats would do if there was internal tension to split them apart. There's no need to retread that again after it effectively served its narrative purpose. And Luffy needing to train more was already the focus of the timeskip. At least with the four previous crewmates, the stakes kept getting bigger and the circumstances were different each time. Sanji's character arc itself seems like a fusion of how Nami, Robin, and Usopp respectively left the crew.
Regardless, I do feel Zoro will talk him down at least. I feel that Zoro as a character would follow up on his critique towards Luffy.
@Count:
If anything, this arc is meant to give Luffy practice so that him defeating Kaido in the next arc feels more logical (and even then, I doubt he will do it alone for at least the first half of the fight). And Luffy's never going to change. If Ace's death didn't change him, then it's clear that Oda is fixated on Luffy maintaining his charismatic, but static personality. And honestly, that's fine. Luffy's personality and character is role is why he's such a lovable protagonist and how he's unique. So that shouldn't be taken away. Luffy wants to be the freest man in the seas, not barred down by any borders or obligations. That is how he defines the title of Pirate King in contrast to how many others look towards that title as being synonymous with becoming a despot who commands others under them. And that already meshes with how Luffy is in love with free-roaming romance and adventure in the wide blue sea.
I'm not really talking about his personality. I'm fine with that not changing at all, what I'm talking about is him learning new information, and growing from it as a result. Bringing up Ace's death is a good point. He was in quite the shock at the time and I'm not sure he really 'decided' on what to do from there, he kind of just fell into unconsciousness, and then did the 2 year time skip thing. I will use a different word, instead of change. Let's say 'grow'. I'm just thinking about how Luffy mirrors Roger as similar people. Yet Roger matured, and I feel Luffy will too, with time of course. I know he likes to be free, but realizing that that isn't all the sea is about isn't really a 'personality change'. I think I have said this before though, but I do think this will happen later when he finds one piece, not before. I can certainly imagine Luffy having to be in the position of 'king of the pirates' but being bored and not realizing that he has lost his motivation for some reason. Just imagine Luffy being in the same position as Garp. He would be the SAME AS GARP in a position of responsibility!
Hmm. Thinking of this, I can totally see that the 'king of the pirates' responsibility will be forced onto him though hahaha, and that would suit him more honestly. I would love to see him mirror Garp in a similar position eating chips lmao. So yes, I can see Luffy not really thinking that hard about it, but I don't think it would not affect him. Maybe he might not really do that much but I do feel he'd probably make a calm decision at that point at least. Although I'm not sure if anything in Raftel would really make him angry. I also think he would not really get involved unless it was personal. I agree he doesn't really think of 'morals' or anything, but the thing is that he is so random that he'd interact with people and help them all and somehow, personally be connected to the whole world, and then realize that 'uh oh, a bunch of my friends from every where are in trouble because of the government'. I guess luckily he'd join the next war because of personal reasons so maybe this would all resolve anyway. Maybe he doesn't need to mature, although it would be cool to see him mature in the not so near future.
Having Jinbei on as a crew mate might help influence the Straw Hats to more political thinking, though. At least, I remember Jinbei asking Luffy why he hasn't read the news paper. It would be interesting if there was a 'garp/sengoku' relationship between Luffy and Zoro later on. I could see that happening with Jinbei being on. Although I guess pirates don't really have to have that kind of relationship/ work method. (Unless The Roger Pirates had to do something similar)
@Count:
The World Government and/or Blackbeard Pirates are more likely to start the war, with the Straw Hats' involvement being a response rather than a declaration.
I can agree to this, yeah.
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Side note, what do we think of Luffy's Conqueror's Haki? We have only seen him use that once by accident (maybe he used it more than once, I don't remember), and seeing Big Mom use that here, it's pretty crazy. I hope this helps him become more powerful. It would be interesting to see him develop that into his techniques in the future.
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Side note, what do we think of Luffy's Conqueror's Haki? We have only seen him use that once by accident (maybe he used it more than once, I don't remember), and seeing Big Mom use that here, it's pretty crazy. I hope this helps him become more powerful. It would be interesting to see him develop that into his techniques in the future.
wait what? did you mean someone else?… Luffy has full control over conqueror's haki and has used it many times already... there was a whole time skip dedicated to him learning it... or did you mean something else?
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@Neo:
That is very interesting. Streussan reveals the truth to Big Mom. She doesn't believe him and becomes very angry with him. Sanji has convinced Pudding to use her power on Big Mom. "I can confirm it from your memory." How, you say? Well, if she ate them, she would have seen it, through her unconscious eyes. She is unconscious when she goes on her rage eats right? This can cause her to truly redeem herself as a character, maybe.
Something like that. All I expect for sure is Pudding to look into Streussen's memories since Big Mom doesn't really remember anything.
Good point, I was thinking that too. I do agree that simply escaping would be so, minimal, and it wouldn't progress the story that much. So I like what you say here. Thanks to your and others contributions to the thread I can see there being something regarding the Charlotte Family Tension, and just her discovering new things about her self which will probably fuel the plot somehow. Oh yeah the Tamatebako box. What would be funny is that she isn't even the one who opens it.
I can see Sanji doing that, yeah.I used to theorize that the Vinsmokes would open it as a wedding gift from Big Mom lol. And if Sanji doesn't cook something (that bento is not enough) in an island that is made of giant food with a family themed after cooking and ingredients, that will be the biggest waste of all-time.
Regardless, I do feel Zoro will talk him down at least. I feel that Zoro as a character would follow up on his critique towards Luffy.
Probably.
I'm not really talking about his personality. I'm fine with that not changing at all, what I'm talking about is him learning new information, and growing from it as a result. Bringing up Ace's death is a good point. He was in quite the shock at the time and I'm not sure he really 'decided' on what to do from there, he kind of just fell into unconsciousness, and then did the 2 year time skip thing. I will use a different word, instead of change. Let's say 'grow'. I'm just thinking about how Luffy mirrors Roger as similar people. Yet Roger matured, and I feel Luffy will too, with time of course. I know he likes to be free, but realizing that that isn't all the sea is about isn't really a 'personality change'. I think I have said this before though, but I do think this will happen later when he finds one piece, not before. I can certainly imagine Luffy having to be in the position of 'king of the pirates' but being bored and not realizing that he has lost his motivation for some reason. Just imagine Luffy being in the same position as Garp. He would be the SAME AS GARP in a position of responsibility!
Hmm. Thinking of this, I can totally see that the 'king of the pirates' responsibility will be forced onto him though hahaha, and that would suit him more honestly. I would love to see him mirror Garp in a similar position eating chips lmao. So yes, I can see Luffy not really thinking that hard about it, but I don't think it would not affect him. Maybe he might not really do that much but I do feel he'd probably make a calm decision at that point at least. Although I'm not sure if anything in Raftel would really make him angry. I also think he would not really get involved unless it was personal. I agree he doesn't really think of 'morals' or anything, but the thing is that he is so random that he'd interact with people and help them all and somehow, personally be connected to the whole world, and then realize that 'uh oh, a bunch of my friends from every where are in trouble because of the government'. I guess luckily he'd join the next war because of personal reasons so maybe this would all resolve anyway. Maybe he doesn't need to mature, although it would be cool to see him mature in the not so near future.
Roger… never really matured. All we hear from him is how reckless he is when people insult his crew members. Or miraculous stunts he did. All stuff that Luffy does, except he took a moment to reflect and cry in pain pre-timeskip instead of never showing faults like Shanks implied. This entire series is about emphasizing selfishness, while still valuing your friends in how you can't achieve your goals without them and being worth more than material grandeur. And I can imagine Luffy being like Garp lol, but that's just who he is. He will make big decisions like when he told Usopp to burn the flag and stuff. Luffy is great when he makes big shots to protect what he cares about and oppose an oppression when it's in the immediate vicinity. But I doubt that he's really going to start up unprovoked conflicts for a cause. That's just not him. He's solely reactionary. He can certainly join the war to protect all of the allies he's made, but it's not really right for somebody like him to put the finishing blow in the World Government when he's only driven by non-malicious selfishness and personal compassion. There is so much thematic focus about who defines justice with the World Government/Marines' actions that the person who defeats Akainu/the Gorosei needs to be somebody who wants to enforce better ethics. Or else it feels like Luffy is the focal point solely because he's he protagonist rather than it truly meaning something more profound than pirates protecting themselves against a corrupt government.
Having Jinbei on as a crew mate might help influence the Straw Hats to more political thinking, though. At least, I remember Jinbei asking Luffy why he hasn't read the news paper. It would be interesting if there was a 'garp/sengoku' relationship between Luffy and Zoro later on. I could see that happening with Jinbei being on. Although I guess pirates don't really have to have that kind of relationship/ work method. (Unless The Roger Pirates had to do something similar)
I am actually expecting Jimbei to do that. Although perhaps not just political thinking as much as general planning like Law did for Dressrosa. While I expect his ship role to be Helmsman, his plot role is really going to be the Tactician/Diplomat. Jimbei could be the closest thing to a first mate duty-wise (whereas Zoro does that moreso in terms of strength and renown that Luffy can rely on while being a lone wolf). A Garp/Sengoku relationship is interesting though. I suppose I can see that between Luffy and Law. But I mainly see it in Luffy and Zoro already with Zoro being critical like Sengoku, and the two appreciating each other's power in deadly situations.
I can agree to this, yeah.
Good, good.
Side note, what do we think of Luffy's Conqueror's Haki? We have only seen him use that once by accident (maybe he used it more than once, I don't remember), and seeing Big Mom use that here, it's pretty crazy. I hope this helps him become more powerful. It would be interesting to see him develop that into his techniques in the future.
I can see it. Especially because of how big a focus it seems to be with Shanks. I hope that it's useful for anything more than just repetitive hype. Luffy still also needs to master the Voice of All Things and Awakening, along with perhaps lessening the strain of using Gear Fourth.
wait what? did you mean someone else?… Luffy has full control over conqueror's haki and has used it many times already... there was a whole time skip dedicated to him learning it... or did you mean something else?
He means it being advanced beyond what we've already seen for an offensive purpose that's more than just knocking out fodder.
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If Linlin hadn't eaten the children, and something else had happened - for example, CP0 kidnapping them - then surely the giant running back to Elbaf would have told a different tale, one not purely focused on Linlin becoming Giant enemy #1.
Just because Mom may not (devil's advocating that) have done one horrible thing doesn't mean she didn't do something else terrifying.
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Just because Mom may not (devil's advocating that) have done one horrible thing doesn't mean she didn't do something else terrifying.
A bit of repeating myself here, but considering Hunter x Hunter had children being eaten, twice, don't you think that the allusions used are kinda weak?
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Not sure how is that really relevant to Oda's target audience.
While yes many adults read the series, it doesn't mean that Oda specifically writes for them especially taking his 5-year-rule into account, and how he imagines himself as a teen in order to see which ideas sound the "coolest" to implement into the manga.
It was relevant as a reply to the person who claimed just couple of grown ups read OP.
Even so, it's hard not to see how OP has matured over time. Both in style and substance.
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Not sure if this has been mentioned before, but Big Moms pose made me think of Luffy after Ace died.
If Luffy was stronger with his Conqueror Haki when Ace died would he made the same reaction Big Mom does now?
It could be an extra defense mechanisme from the Conqueror Haki. -
Not sure if this has been mentioned before, but Big Moms pose made me think of Luffy after Ace died.
If Luffy was stronger with his Conqueror Haki when Ace died would he made the same reaction Big Mom does now?
It could be an extra defense mechanisme from the Conqueror Haki.Made me think of Shanks damaging WB's ship and Doflamingo freeing himself from Aokiji's ice capsule (possibly). I mean the implication CoC can cause physical damage was always there, it was just never shown as explicitly as now.
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@Count:
Then what about Fishman Island's safety, or the plotlines surrounding the Charlotte Family tension (Pudding and Big Mom, Chiffon and Pound, Lola in general), or Big Mom finally learning the truth that has been hidden to her from others, the illness finally getting cured or treated after all of this focus, or Pekoms finally doing something since there has to be some purpose for his presence? There's also the Tamatebako Box being opened, but we all know that's inevitable. I understand why escaping seems like the most probable option with how angry Big Mom looks right now, but these things demand resolutions. I don't think that they can be ignored or shoved into the backside until Elbaf rolls around (besides maybe Lola's wedding, because that's begging for a full flashback), because then all of the suspense and immersion is washed out. Not much is gained from this arc if they just escape aside from the Poneglyph scripts, and knowing a bit more about Sanji isn't relevant aside from worldbuilding that indirectly hypes up Vegapunk and MAYBE the Reverie.
Big Mom can say that she will never forgive the Straw Hats three times at midnight while looking at a mirror, and I will still expect her tone to change by the time the illness is dealt when she inevitably rampages and gets calmed down by Sanji's cooking (all this talk about how kind Sanji is and how he's valuable is going to payoff in a major way besides just saving the Vinsmokes).
From what I remember, the "illness cure" or the "sanji cooking" theories were based on an alliance between the Big Mum children and the strawhats in order to calm a rampaging mum. But it is not what is happening at the moment.
At the moment I'm not sure that curing Mum sickness is in Chopper priority top list. I never found that point was ever important to be honest. As for Sanji, I don't know, it does not seem he has moved from the table so I guess he still put saving his family in priority -
I guess Linlin did eat people, but the one she ate was a CP, not Carmel and the children.
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From what I remember, the "illness cure" or the "sanji cooking" theories were based on an alliance between the Big Mum children and the strawhats in order to calm a rampaging mum. But it is not what is happening at the moment.
At the moment I'm not sure that curing Mum sickness is in Chopper priority top list. I never found that point was ever important to be honest. As for Sanji, I don't know, it does not seem he has moved from the table so I guess he still put saving his family in priorityWell of course this is not happening at the moment. Big Mom's not rampaging yet. You think that after all of this build-up with Big Mom's illness, and this being the reason why she is hated by Elbaf (besides apparent cannibalism), we're not going to see how the Straw Hats fare against a Big Mom rampage? It looks like she either needs a bit of time to settle her mind or just one more push, but it's definitely going to happen. And what definitely isn't going to happen is the Straw Hats defeating the Charlotte Family, who they literally acknowledge in this chapter as being impossible to defeat.
This is about Chopper saving everybody else's lives, not just Big Mom's. Her entire flashback is about the tragedy of dealing with this illness. So Chopper should follow up on all of this buildup with SOMETHING. And I'll reiterate what I said earlier to Neo about how Sanji's cooking not being relevant in an island made entire out of food while interacting with a family themed after ingredients and a queen who needs to eat to calm down will be the biggest waste of obvious potential in this entire manga. A Straw Hat's profession saving the day could not be more tailor made than this.
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Just out of curiosity, I want to ask the "Big Mom didn't eat them" camp:
What will your initial thoughts be if it's 100% confirmed that she did indeed cannibalize them and it's as straightforward as we were led to believe?
I personally would like that very much as it would mean Oda isnt affraid to step into that territory and would also mean Linlin has knowingly or not done attrocities which are beyond redemption…and since I dont wish a scenario where we or the author would try to refeem Linlin I would be happy with Big Mom ate them all scenario
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@Count:
Well of course this is not happening at the moment. Big Mom's not rampaging yet. You think that after all of this build-up with Big Mom's illness, and this being the reason why she is hated by Elbaf (besides apparent cannibalism), we're not going to see how the Straw Hats fare against a Big Mom rampage? It looks like she either needs a bit of time to settle her mind or just one more push, but it's definitely going to happen. And what definitely isn't going to happen is the Straw Hats defeating the Charlotte Family, who they literally acknowledge in this chapter as being impossible to defeat.
This is about Chopper saving everybody else's lives, not just Big Mom's. Her entire flashback is about the tragedy of dealing with this illness. So Chopper should follow up on all of this buildup with SOMETHING. And I'll reiterate what I said earlier to Neo about how Sanji's cooking not being relevant in an island made entire out of food while interacting with a family themed after ingredients and a queen who needs to eat to calm down will be the biggest waste of obvious potential in this entire manga. A Straw Hat's profession saving the day could not be more tailor made than this.
For Sanji I agree it would be a waste, as for Chopper I really don't care. This illness has never been shown as something who could be cured by medecine anyway since it is rather a psychological thing.
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I personally would like that very much as it would mean Oda isnt affraid to step into that territory and would also mean Linlin has knowingly or not done attrocities which are beyond redemption…and since I dont wish a scenario where we or the author would try to refeem Linlin I would be happy with Big Mom ate them all scenario
One problem posed with Big Mom eating Carmel and ending up get the soul,soul fruit is that, it opens up a lot of worms re:devil fruit acquisition. If BM eats another devil fruit person, then would that kill her ? It just would be so easy a set up for her death, imho
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For Sanji I agree it would be a waste, as for Chopper I really don't care. This illness has never been shown as something who could be cured by medecine anyway since it is rather a psychological thing.
I'm not sure if we can solely chalk it up as something psychological given the peculiar way Linlin was born overall. It likely has a connection with her biology. I don't deny that either seems like it would be outside of Chopper's skill set, but I would like to see him at least try. And for what it's worth, I think Chopper's "doctoring" could step its game up to make notable progress. He hasn't really done much that is preferably major in it. In Punk Hazard, Law ended up healing the kids in ten minutes instead of him while Chopper only diagnosed their condition. And on Zou, Caesar was responsible for making the cure to the poison gas and Chopper's plans for healing Zunisha were completely off-paneled. So I would like to see some progress on his dream to become a doctor that can cure any illness, not that I expect him to achieve this aspiration before the end of the story.
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This chapter addressed most questions I had.
She definitely ate everyone and got her Devil Fruit from eating Mother Carmel.
Doesn't look like Big Mom is going to be redeemed. I prefer her staying a villain, and add to that, she's definitely a pretty complex and interesting villain, too. She has a seemingly good motive, but how she goes about reaching it is terrible. The story explained her, it's sad and horrible what happened to her, but it didn't excuse her.
A very solid chapter!
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One problem posed with Big Mom eating Carmel and ending up get the soul,soul fruit is that, it opens up a lot of worms re:devil fruit acquisition. If BM eats another devil fruit person, then would that kill her ? It just would be so easy a set up for her death, imho
That's an easy set up regardless of if she ate them or not. If anyone manages to trick her into eating a devil fruit, she dies.
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I'm devil's advocating but whatever Mom did wasn't good. The giant saw and got outta Dodge but our cook friend, who's being set up as a nasty user of children, has a morbid sense of humor so I think it's reasonable so long as we agree that whatever Mom did was horrifying.
Now we just have to figure out what else would be so terrifying that the giants never even utter her name… that would also enable her to get the fruit as well
Btw do you see Streusen more like an ambitious supporter of BM with, like you said, a morbid sense of humor or as the true "mastermind" behind Big Mom and her life
I only ask because, iirc, on the podcast a theory about the chess theme of BM´s crew was mentioned being that Big Mom is literally the queen, meaning the strongest piece, but not the most important and that someone else, weak but most important, would be the King and i think with the revelations of Streusen being by BM´s side the longest, i think that role fits him pretty well.
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@K.:
With that being said: the 20ish people that got devoured by Big Mom all deserved it for staying still for so long.
How do you know anything about their behaviour at that moment? Oo If they kept standing there, it would have been out of pure shock of what's happening to their "family".
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BigMum meets Big Father…a match made for heaven?
Or does Capone have more to fear than simply getting attacked, when you know what i mean
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@Count:
I'm not sure if we can solely chalk it up as something psychological given the peculiar way Linlin was born overall. It likely has a connection with her biology. I don't deny that either seems like it would be outside of Chopper's skill set, but I would like to see him at least try. And for what it's worth, I think Chopper's "doctoring" could step its game up to make notable progress. He hasn't really done much that is preferably major in it. In Punk Hazard, Law ended up healing the kids in ten minutes instead of him while Chopper only diagnosed their condition. And on Zou, Caesar was responsible for making the cure to the poison gas and Chopper's plans for healing Zunisha were completely off-paneled. So I would like to see some progress on his dream to become a doctor that can cure any illness, not that I expect him to achieve this aspiration before the end of the story.
Well I'm not that much interested in the realisation of the Strawhat dreams. For me, it is something which has become a bit secondary for Oda. But I know my thinking is original on that point.
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Well I'm not that much interested in the realisation of the Strawhat dreams. For me, it is something which has become a bit secondary for Oda. But I know my thinking is original on that point.
I agree that it has become secondary for Oda, but that's never not disappointing.
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Well, some Strawhats´ dreams are simply more exciting than others. I can go on without constantly seeing Nami draw maps or Chopper doctoring around but i am pretty sure each of them will get their moment in which you can say "they made it".
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Well, some Strawhats´ dreams are simply more exciting than others. I can go on without constantly seeing Nami draw maps or Chopper doctoring around but i am pretty sure each of them will get their moment in which you can say "they made it".
But the moment that "they made it" isn't going to feel that remarkable if their progress towards that dream is hardly ever shown. If there's no effort being shown, then why are supposed to care all that much about their dreams when they're achieved? We don't need constant reminders of drawing maps or doctoring around every arc. We just need them to do one or two things that show progress beyond their introductory arcs, and I mean stuff that's more than just token off-panel roles like "I wrapped you in bandages for the billionth time" or "I'll navigate us to the next island like always". It's already awkward enough that Sanji is trying to find a mythical sea that we still haven't heard anything about, even in the second Sanji-centric arc besides seeing how he learned about it from a book.
These dreams are only less exciting because Oda doesn't care to make them exciting. There's all sorts of cool stuff you can do with sea/island charting and curing plagues in a surreal pirate manga. Like Nami connecting the Jaya-Skypiea maps in order to learn about how they were originally the same island. Or Chopper maybe diagnosing/treating the biological eating disorder of a pirate emperor in a land made of food. That type of stuff is freaking awesome.
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@Count:
I'm not sure if we can solely chalk it up as something psychological given the peculiar way Linlin was born overall. It likely has a connection with her biology. I don't deny that either seems like it would be outside of Chopper's skill set, but I would like to see him at least try. And for what it's worth, I think Chopper's "doctoring" could step its game up to make notable progress. He hasn't really done much that is preferably major in it. In Punk Hazard, Law ended up healing the kids in ten minutes instead of him while Chopper only diagnosed their condition. And on Zou, Caesar was responsible for making the cure to the poison gas and Chopper's plans for healing Zunisha were completely off-paneled. So I would like to see some progress on his dream to become a doctor that can cure any illness, not that I expect him to achieve this aspiration before the end of the story.
The only way I see chopper get his dream is if oda kills law and mansherry. His doctor skills are good, but you can't compete with magical doctors.
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How do you know anything about their behaviour at that moment? Oo If they kept standing there, it would have been out of pure shock of what's happening to their "family".
Big Mom did not move from her spot while eating, at least there is no indication that she did. Which means that around 20 kids were all were shocked and paralyzed. Which is fine, they are kids at the end of the day. Then Carmel, whom revealed that she did not care about them, also stood there to either stop Big Mom, or in shock(less likely) instead of running away. Even if it is because of shock, it would mean they all stood in the same place. So my comment still stands.
We could maybe spin it off as: when the first few started getting eaten, the others came closer to stop Big Mom. But this has been my point for a while, there is very few hints to grab onto and even with the witnesses we did not get any new information that the chapter before it did not give us. Which is barely anything at all. For example: if the kids tried to stop Big Mom, instead of only screams have: "Stop it Linlin!".
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I feel 101% the same way.
Make that 102% for me. Basically that. I'm not losing sleep over either possibilities, but to me it feels like there simply might be something else there.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
no, cannibalism is what's implied, everything else are theories.
By definition it's still a theory at this point.
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One problem posed with Big Mom eating Carmel and ending up get the soul,soul fruit is that, it opens up a lot of worms re:devil fruit acquisition. If BM eats another devil fruit person, then would that kill her ? It just would be so easy a set up for her death, imho
well, maybe this scenario would happen at the end of this arc. We can see the death of yonkou without debating whether the allied forces are strong enough to defeat her or not and see the efffect of eating two DF visually. Yess, it's time for Linlin to eat Streusen and booomm..
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Perhaps Streusen discovered the Devil Fruit growing nearby somewhere and offered it to Linlin in order to increase her power. Linlin eating Carmel and the kids is believable to me, her getting Carmel's DF by eating her…not so much.
Spoiler:
