Those facial expressions are awesome. A shame Jimbei did not get the White eye treatment.
@Nubtro:
Btw. the stone portion of the Bege castle reminds me of Rockbiter from The Neverending Story.
Rockbiteeeers. Those are the people I kept thinking about.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@Kaido:
How did he get away with implying cannibalism during Big Mom's introduction chapter?
Talking food in the story later.
Yeah, I know. Still, I'm still thinking Oda might be playing us. But there are definitely good arguments for it simply being what it seems.
However, if it turns out it was something like I suggested the giants may have said something like this:
"What?! Some scoundrels killed Mother and took away the children? You say LinLin just sat there stuffing her face with semla?! Even though Mother, whom we owe a great debt to, went out of her way to protect that child after she sacked our village and killed an elderly person?! That vile beast! Rabble rabble rabble!"
That's not impossible, but, to me, that wouldn't make sense gives the circumstances and how they focused just on Big Mom. Furthermore, I would be disappointed if Oda, after creating this wonderful dark twist on Big Mom just backtracks from it just to "screw" with the readers.
Jimbe isn't as much shocked as the others.
@Kaido:
How did he get away with implying cannibalism during Big Mom's introduction chapter?
It was pretty non-graphic, and certainly a lower bar than eating little orphans lol.
Wut?!
Shingeki no Kyojin - Attack on Titan - originally was submitted to Weekly Shounen Jump editorial at Shuueisha, but the manga was rejected.
He then took it to the Shounen Magazine editorial at Koudansha, and it was risky even for them for weekly, and that's how it ended up on the Monthly Bessatu Shounen Magazine.
Wut?!
Attack on Titan is published by Bessatsu Shounen Magazine, but initially the author tried with WSJ and refused when they told him to remove some of the violence.
edit – Sorry, Aohige already answered.
Wow. You certainly made him look like a fool.
Nah just trying to make him understand and accept what is already been shown all I put are facts unlike his that all came from baseless theories that has no ground to stand from the very beginning its like just give a better argument then lets see if it is possible but all he says either contradicts one another or fat off like it was specifically said ONLY TWO WITNESS IT so no CP0 that escaped already nor any other kids survive that leaves the question where are the body? Only answer she ate them
Another counter argument is how did BM got soru soru no mi without the knowledge of eating it? Only argument she ate carmel and got it from her. If she could answer those two question then all of his arguments are invalid
Still this nonsense of people denying she (LinLin) ate all those childrens. We're adults reading a comic for children, people!
Again with this?
I'm pretty sure Oda isn't writing OP for children alone, considering he's been working on it for 20 years now, and a lot of the children who were following it from the start are now adults. Not to mention there have been plenty of adult themes shown, like: murder, war, opression, racial discrimination, slavery, alcoholism, animal experimentation, children experimentation, children killings…
I myself was 16-17 when I first discovered the anime, and now I'm freaking 32.
I just realized how much of a missed opportunity it is for Perospero not to have the Kuku Kuku no Mi lol. Then again his Devil Fruit name is literally in his first name.
Three question to all none believers that BM ate all the children and BM:
Where are the bodies? And nope you could not argue CP0 because only 2 witness survived are present in the event the giant and streusen
How did BM got the Soru Soru no Mi wothout eating a DF?
What else beside her eating them could it possibly be?
Use logic and reason….
Again with this?
I'm pretty sure Oda isn't writing OP for children alone, considering he's been working on it for 20 years now, and a lot of the children who were following it from the start are now adults.
I myself was 16-17 when I first discovered the anime, and now I'm freaking 32.
and that means nothing.
it's still ina magazine targeted at children,so even if he wanted to become "for adults" or even a "seinen",it can't without being moved to another magazine…and even then,since those are already loyal readerss that will keep reading as long as the story is good,they don't need to cater to them,meanwhile being for children means that you can acquire new readers when the ones that weren't even born when the manga started are now at the right age to become fans.
Three question to all none believers that BM ate all the children and BM:
Where are the bodies? And nope you could not argue CP0 because only 2 witness survived are present in the event the giant and streusen
How did BM got the Soru Soru no Mi wothout eating a DF?
What else beside her eating them could it possibly be?
Use logic and reason….
Wow, lots of schoolyard tactics being thrown about for an exchange of ideas between friends who share an awesome hobby.
I can very well see how Mom might not have eaten the children.
That's not to say it's what I believe at this point but the option is still there.
We're all fans 
Three question to all none believers that BM ate all the children and BM:
Where are the bodies? And nope you could not argue CP0 because only 2 witness survived are present in the event the giant and streusen
How did BM got the Soru Soru no Mi wothout eating a DF?
What else beside her eating them could it possibly be?
Use logic and reason….
2)3) no point because you don't want people to even make suggestions at this point, seen in 1).
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Wow, lots of schoolyard tactics being thrown about for an exchange of ideas between friends who share an awesome hobby.
Hey, I'm not your friend, guy!
I can very well see how Mom might not have eaten the children.
That's not to say it's what I believe at this point but the option is still there.
Basically this is what I believe most of the people here, who are somewhat sceptical about the situation, feels. Personally with this chapter I, too, don't know for sure. Had it not been for CP0 showing up in the flashback I probably wouldn't be so sceptical at this point.
and that means nothing.
it's still ina magazine targeted at children,so even if he wanted to become "for adults" or even a "seinen",it can't without being moved to another magazine…and even then,since those are already loyal readerss that will keep reading as long as the story is good,they don't need to cater to them,meanwhile being for children means that you can acquire new readers when the ones that weren't even born when the manga started are now at the right age to become fans.
I wasn't arguing anything, just stating he doesn't write it for just kids. If it was like that, I wouldn't be reading it, duh.
Wow, lots of schoolyard tactics being thrown about for an exchange of ideas between friends who share an awesome hobby.
I can very well see how Mom might not have eaten the children.
That's not to say it's what I believe at this point but the option is still there.We're all fans
The problem is, this may never get clarified due to restrictions stated above.
It's pretty clear she ate them, but without visual proof it'll probably forever be debated.
@Count:
Pretty much. Placing emphasis on there being two witnesses indicates some sort of mystery and future big reveal in mind. If it was really as clear cut as just cannibalism (not that cannibalism can't be involved at all, I mean only that), I don't really see why Oda would go to such lengths to still hide it, continue the flashback like this, and have Big Mom so fixated on not knowing what really happened. Especially compared to the really dark things he's done like with Law's backstory, and acknowledging Zeff's autocannibalism (although Linlin is on a whole other level of morbid).
Either Oda doesn't want to show it because it's too much for one reason or another. OR he wants to show the whole thing when BM actually remembers it, likely with the use of Pudding's power. I've been speculating for a while that that is how they will calm her down - by showing her what she continues to scream about - whereabouts of her mother.
the giants had to stop linlin from eating the whole reserve of semla back 2 chapter ago..she eats very fast,otherwise that wouldn't have been a problem,so,realistically,how much time could have passed from when sha started to eat till when she finished?
we even see the "multiple hand at once" things that implies she is stuffing her mouth really fast
do you guys that someone could have come,abducted the children and left without a trace in such small amount of time?
the giants had to stop linlin from eating the whole reserve of semla back 2 chapter ago..she eats very fast,otherwise that wouldn't have been a problem,so,realistically,how much time could have passed from when sha started to eat till when she finished?
we even see the "multiple hand at once" things that implies she is stuffing her mouth really fastdo you guys that someone could have come,abducted the children and left without a trace in such small amount of time?
Sure, we have an equal amount of visual confirmation that both those things happened.
- If you say we can't argue that they were taken away, then you are basically saying people are not allowed to argue with you.
2)3) no point because you don't want people to even make suggestions at this point, seen in 1).
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Hey, I'm not your friend, guy!
Basically this is what I believe most of the people here, who are somewhat sceptical about the situation, feels. Personally with this chapter I, too, don't know for sure. Had it not been for CP0 showing up in the flashback I probably wouldn't be so sceptical at this point.
Well you could say this were rhetorical questions at this point lol
But hey dude what you say right there is harsh thought this whole community are friends by common interest well i suppose even the straw hat pirates can teach the value of NAKAMA lol hahahaha
The problem is, this may never get clarified due to restrictions stated above.
It's pretty clear she ate them, but without visual proof it'll probably forever be debated.
If it is never brought up again in the manga, then I'd say it definitely was the case. Obviously it would need to be brought up soon enough. Can't have someone pop up at the end and say "oh, and BM didn't eat them".
I wasn't arguing anything, just stating he doesn't write it for just kids. If it was like that, I wouldn't be reading it, duh.
and one advantage of writing for adults too and that you can get away with implying things without having to clearly tell them to the audience.
so the adults clearly understand what happened while it's left vague for the children
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@Kaido:
Sure, we have an equal amount of visual confirmation that both those things happened.
so in a matter,let's say,30 seconds a group that was nowhere in sight at the start of her eating came,abducted the children and left?
sorry can't say i agree,kizaru was not old enough to be on the group either@Melker:
If it is never brought up again in the manga, then I'd say it definitely was the case. Obviously it would need to be brought up soon enough. Can't have someone pop up at the end and say "oh, and BM didn't eat them".
well,many people still argue that monet and vergo are alive and well because we haven't seen their bodies blown to pieces
so in a matter,let's say,30 seconds a group that was nowhere in sight at the start of her eating came,abducted the children and left?
sorry can't say i agree,kizaru was not old enough to be on the group either
Sure, we've seen that Cipher Pol agents can operate that fast.
In my gut, it doesn't seem likely, but it's not like there's a whole lot of tangible backing for everyone getting eaten.
Spoiler:
I wanted to see Streusen some more, his character seemed fun. I didn't expect this at all, however.
And the plan went as expected, with both the rockets and the mirror failing to achieve their purpose. But Bege turned into a freaking castle with a cigarette chimney. What a day to be alive.
I like how there is almost no dialogue in present time outside of internal monolgue, obviously because Big Mom's screams probably overshadows any possible voice.
Katakuri comes to the rescure again by making mochi earplugs.
With Bege transforming into a castle, does he become Wapol 2.0?
Sure, I will. Though it got a lot harder
That's what's killing me : both explanations you suggest could completely be true in the end and it's not unlike Oda to mislead his audience. At the moment we have absolutely no way to tell for sure if it's one or the other, that clever bastard of an author is trolling us once again 
If you ask them to think really hard about it maybe. But for casual kid simply reading a story I don't think he is interested in solving the puzzle ahead. When Big Mom is reveal to have killed everyone it will be just that simple. She killed them. It's not about the killing but the gruesome image of an overgrown child eating children.
The semantic difference can work, but it's still a really obvious twist. Especially in an arc that had clever twists like with Pudding (the possible misdirection reminds me of how Pudding's confession to Luffy looked like she was going to run away or commit suicide) and Luffy allying with Bege. Not that this necessarily makes pure cannibalism less likely of a possibility.
Either way, she's going to probably be mad at Streussen.
Probably. But he would deserve punishment either way.
If that was the plan the whole evil Carmel think becomes weird. Why have Big Mom feel guilty for the evil woman who wanted to sell her rather than the one where she feels guilty about the woman that wanted to raise her. Why even have her commit an act of cannibalism if it is to shy away from the rest?
So Big Mom is not going to learn that her lack of restraint cause the death of her family but rather that people cannot be trusted and wanting a country for equality is an awful idea. I kind of doubt that. I mean I don't think learning the only person she kills wanted to kill her is going to send her on guilt trip or change how mad she is at the strawhats or even change of her love for sweets. All it does is show her that she was justified in her killing just like all the others.
Why would she feel guilty for killing the evil woman that wanted to exploit her. All that should do is make her go even more crazy.
It's not about feeling guilty, it's about being self-conflicted. Knowing that her entire motivation was a lie. Knowing that the one person who seemed to truly care for her was a lie. Two if you want throw in Streussen hiding the truth. Which leads to feeling guilty about all of the terrible things she's done to pursue a dream that she would probably think is worthless if Carmel didn't mean what she said. And Linlin has the mindset of a kid. She's either going to break down and cry or rampage while having her illness act up than rationally process her faults or the objective integrity of a goal inherited from somebody else like somebody mature. Those are the same possibilities for finding out that she ate everybody than a 100% guaranteed guilt trip.
It was said that happened after the story of the giant so the incident of the island is what caused such a strong reaction.
The chapter described them as being disgusted by Big Mom and pretty much trying to wipe her out of her mind. I would expect them to be mad if it had to with the giant killing. Plus it says it has to do with what happen on the island.
So did this particular story. And while the first made them them mad, the second made them disgusted and erase Big Mom name.
The only difference is not mentioning Linlin's name anymore. Nothing really changed. Just look at how this page was framed. It's almost the exact same as this chapter, right down to news spreading of how terrible Linlin is. The only difference is Carmel being enough of a hero to still deserve their help.
!
!
So I still stand by how being disgusted by the cannibalism and not mentioning her name is redundant. Outside of explaining how the house got built. Especially when we know that they got along enough to have a political marriage decades later. The Giant witness feels like meaningless fluff unless it's a red herring.
Loki is currently a baby so his feelings for Big Mom are less strong and he fell in love with Lola.
But this isn't just about Loki, but also Elbaf's civilization as a whole. And how would he even learn about Lola on his own when Linlin is Elbaf's pariah?
Considering the visual of that panel of Big Mom holding the king while terrorizing a bunch fleeing islander, I doubt you are to find her sympathetic. She is the monster that doesn't know she is a monster. The good way to make her realize she is indeed a monster is not to have her kill the evil child selling mother but rather the accidental killing of the innocent family she had.
But then what's the point of revealing Carmel selling orphans to the World Government? That message of being an accidental monster can only be stronger if Carmel was innocent, and her being evil doesn't somehow compensate for how all of the kids are innocent. All I got from this flashback is how Linlin keeps getting screwed over again and again and again by how she was born and not having a good role-model, resulting in an innocent dream inhibited by a childlike mentality that instead makes her into a despot, but mainly because of illness cravings and not having anybody to teach her any better. If Oda didn't want us to potentially find her sympathetic, he would've gone all in on making her a monster like Doflamingo. And Doflamingo's poverty issues do not offset how much of a terrible person he was even as a kid before meeting Trebol. Oda likes making his antagonists as hatable as possible. Linlin holding the king is similar to Pudding threatening to stab other kids while still maintaining attempted sympathy for her mistreatment over her third eye (not that I feel the slightest bit bad for Pudding, ironically).
It was back in the days where Zoro flashback could take one chapter.
But that is still much different from revealing something about a flashback after the flashback is over. I don't think Oda's ever really had a flashback elaborated on after the fact with an ongoing mystery until this arc.
Streussen could easily have teach the older children about hiding those Big Mom kill from her from his own experience. I really think everything points to her having killed them.
Whether the kids got kidnapped or they ran away, Streussen's a scumbag who saw somebody to manipulate. He's the Babidi to Linlin's Buu. And I don't deny that the evidence is pointing more towards the kids just being dead. I don't mean to act like that's impossible and I'm dead-set on being right as some special conspiracy theorist. I only want to break down publicly how there could still be other options.
it's possible that the way his editor let Oda get away with it (canibalism against children in a shonen manga) is by not showing it,but it doesn't stop him from implying it as hard as he can…
But what about when it comes time for Streussen to say the truth due to being a witness? That still makes it wasteful to hide the truth for this long instead of just talking about it already unless Oda thinks announcing the twist is somehow surprising at this point.
the first point of view was needed to explain whole cake island and the entire totland archipelago in the first place..like i said in the past,one thing is a crazy weather,another is processed food that rains from the sky.
Streussen's Devil Fruit was needed to show that. Streussen specifically being stated to be a witness to what Linlin did in and of itself is the part that's not needed. Oda could have just skipped to Linlin meeting Streussen randomly. But instead, he emphasizes there being two witnesses. Like the fact that somebody saw what happened is important to take into note like a typical mystery novel.
the other point of view might just be to reinforce the hate linlin got from the giants…also,if it's not something linlin did,why would what he saw increase the hate of the giants for linlin so much that they don't even say her name?because she was eating at the moment
i mean,already the implication that she did something else than eating while eating is a bit of a stretch...almost as a stretch as something else happening while she finished her plate...2 chapters ago the giants had to stop her from eating all the food on the table at once...that kid eats fast,there ain't many things that could have happened in that short amount of time.
There's not really a need to reinforce that at all though. It's REALLY superfluous. And she didn't need to do anything else other than just eat, except maybe eating Carmel but still not the children. CP0 shows up and abducts the kids, probably because Carmel was planning to sell the orphans on Linlin's birthday. The only loose end in that is how Carmel gets killed.
@badwolf1234:
Streusen specifically denied what happen to BM in this chapter because he wants to take advantage of her it is SHOWN IN THE CHAPTER! LOL AT YOUR ARGUMENT THERE!!!! HAHAHHAA
he wants to take control of her and her power as stated he is a ruined pirate and what other way to make a comeback is take control of BMAGAIN ANOTHER LOL TO UR ARGUMENT! HAHAHA if there is a CP0 THE GIANT WOULD HAVE HELP CAUSE IT IS MUCH DIFFERENT FROM WHAT HAPPEN IN ELBAF AND HE WOULD HAVE NOT HATED BM!!! seriously ur argument is pathetic lol
giants are based on vikings! And more or less it is monarch country how could you say no to a prince lol
why hide it? BECAUSE IT IS NOT ATTACK OF THE TITANS AND ODA DONT WANT A GRAPHIC CONTENT LOL!
ANY MORE ARGUMENT? PLEASE GIVE AT LEAST A GOOD REASONABLE ONE LOL
honestly dude just stop you just look pathetic the more you argue lol hahahha
1. Of course he wants to take advantage of her. That doesn't mean the only thing he could have saw and decided to not talk about is Linlin killing Carmel and the kids. He just has to hide whatever reason they disappeared so that he could use Linlin for his own goals.
2. That Giant's not doing anything while Linlin, the girl who brought down most of Elbaf and one of its greatest heroes, is in the vicinity and could possibly attack him. She could be innocently eating without a care in the world and all that Giant will see is a rabid beast ready to pounce on him if she notices his presence.
3. I would bet that a king would probably say no to a prince. And how would Loki even learn about Lola's existence if Big Mom's a complete outcast who's thought of as an irredeemable cannibal? Why would they ever negotiate with somebody like that?
4. Then why is Oda building-up Streussen being a witness and eventually revealing that Linlin killed/ate the kids then? Unless you're trying to say that Streussen's not going to say anything and Linlin's never going to get closure on what happened to her foster family, which would be a waste of a plotline.
And why are you using this debate as an excuse to act so immature? There's no reason why we can't disagree while respecting each other.
Three question to all none believers that BM ate all the children and BM:
Where are the bodies? And nope you could not argue CP0 because only 2 witness survived are present in the event the giant and streusen
How did BM got the Soru Soru no Mi wothout eating a DF?
What else beside her eating them could it possibly be?
Use logic and reason….
1. Abducted by CP0. Or they hid, but I find the former possibility more likely. And the two witnesses hid from the sidelines and have yet to say anything about what they saw. All we know is that the Giant is horrified and Streussen laughed in response.
2. and 3. She was eating and didn't notice the kids getting kidnapped, while possibly really eating Carmel. The end.
@Dahaka.:
Either Oda doesn't want to show it because it's too much for one reason or another. OR he wants to show the whole thing when BM actually remembers it, likely with the use of Pudding's power. I've been speculating for a while that that is how they will calm her down - by showing her what she continues to scream about - whereabouts of her mother.
I expect (or at least hope) for Pudding's power to be useful. But Streussen being a witness indicates that he needs to play a role too. Not that Pudding can't read HIS memories. But then the truth being cannibalism, which is already obvious, is underwhelming after being palpably teased for so long. Not that this is any less unlikely. I'm not outright dismissing Big Mom the Cannibal, in fact, I actually think it's the most likely route. I'm just bringing attention to other possibilities due to how loose the framing is.
Spoiler:
"Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."
The problem is, this may never get clarified due to restrictions stated above.
It's pretty clear she ate them, but without visual proof it'll probably forever be debated.
I'd like to agree, BUT! I strongly disagree because I think that debate can squarely be settled during this arc.
We have one of the witnesses present. If something happens to him, we're KINDA EF'd.
However, thanks to Pudding and the concept of Mom's attachment to her memories, it's ripe for being addressed in one form or another.
Now, I don't believe it will say, "Big Mom ate the kids."
I'm with you in thinking that won't happen for all those reasons. AoT was the FIRST thing that popped in my head when I thought, "HOLY SH*T ODA!" ^o^ But depending how that memory affects Mom, or a clue at what that memory is, I think it will be settled fair and square.
The manipulation and or revelation of that memory could be VERY important for Pudding and by that I mean making the difference between whether she's a useless exposition whelp or a useful character involved in a massive twist.
tldr: I agree it probably won't be addressed head on, however, if that memory plays as big a part as I think it will, we'll all be able to have a very solid idea of what transpired.
- Where are the bodies? And nope you could not argue CP0 because only 2 witness survived are present in the event the giant and streusen
The case of CP or another witness may be argued. You're arguing for the case of a trustworthy narrator. I'm on the side of a trustworthy narrator. It's the only reason I really believed she actually did eat the kids in the first place.
But that might not be the case.
Example:
"It turns out, there was another witness that history forgot."
Voila.
I'm not saying this will happen, nor that I even think it will happen.
Simply that it could. Whether you like it or not and whether you feel it's stupid or not is irrelevant to being open to the possibility that, yes, it could happen.
- How did BM got the Soru Soru no Mi wothout eating a DF?
Again, not saying this will happen. I would like to believe Mom, at the very least, ate Carmel. But here's how it could be explained: with the above in mind, if Carmel died, her power would have, as far as we know, transferred to the closest viable fruit on the island. Mom, in her state, could have devoured that fruit like she was eating sides of buildings when we saw her rampage in Sweet City.
- What else beside her eating them could it possibly be?
Considering answer #1, any number of things.
I'm not subscribing to any one theory at this point. It's far too enjoyable. But I'm a little surprised at the lack of acceptance for some ideas.
I'm reminded of 2004, when fans got crapped out here for suggesting the 'insane' theory of Space Pirates. Whomp whomp.
so in a matter,let's say,30 seconds a group that was nowhere in sight at the start of her eating came,abducted the children and left?
sorry can't say i agree,kizaru was not old enough to be on the group either
30 seconds is arbitrary, but sure, it probably didn't last several minutes. And if we want to bring in DF users who could have done it fast there is a long list. Like, seriously, Blueno probably has the perfect child abduction fruit.
well,many people still argue that monet and vergo are alive and well because we haven't seen their bodies blown to pieces
Heh, fair enough. Though we have seen characters get blown up and then return with scars.
@Kaido:
Sure, we've seen that Cipher Pol agents can operate that fast.
In my gut, it doesn't seem likely, but it's not like there's a whole lot of tangible backing for everyone getting eaten.
cipher pol agents are not THAT fast,we never saw anyone except kizaru move THAT fast,let alone multiple people
as per what backing we have for the "they got eaten theory we have
1)she was already eating, and she chomped at the table too
2)one of the witnesses when approaching her tell her to keep her distance
3) the other flee the island in terror
4) the opinion that the giants had of linlin got worse,so she must have done something that it's WORSE than destroying the village in a fit of rage and killing a legendary warrior
5) carmel's veil seemed to have clear bite marks on it (albeit it can be a biased opinion)
6) not enough time has passed for anything alse to have happened
7) iF fomeone else was implied in Carmel's disappearancem won't you think that the giants woulkd have targeted them in the first place, carmel was an holy mother for them.
these the first tangible backing i can think off the top of my head
Carmel is dead since Big Mum has her devil fruit now. She most certainly died on the island.
If Mum didn't eat her and someone else killed her, I don't see why Streusel would not have revealed her the truth. Also why the killer would have brought back the body ? This scenario is a bit to complex just for a twist which revelation shows little interest in the present time. The kids are 70 year old and Carmel is dead.
Marines stated this chapter that "reports are coming in that she's more dangerous than Cipher Pol". That's an odd comparison since Cipher Pol is supposed to be their ally.
May give credence to the theory that Cipher Pol was involved in the disappearance of Carmel and the children.
30 seconds is arbitrary, but sure, it probably didn't last several minutes. And if we want to bring in DF users who could have done it fast there is a long list. Like, seriously, Blueno probably has the perfect child abduction fruit.
blueno's fruit doesn't give him super speed…he can move in a special dimension and reappar anywhere in the real world but it doesn't give him the ability to move super fast or shorten the time to go from one place to the other..otherwise g2 luffy wouldn't have been too fast for him...
also,the moment he abducts the first child or even carmel the other are going to scatter,which means it would take even more time to compete the abduction
I'm curious about the other devil fruits on the list
Has Sanji stayed with his family ? We don't see him trying to reach the mirror. Also Nami and Chopper doesn't seem to have reunited with Luffy's group.
Marines stated this chapter that "reports are coming in that she's more dangerous than Cipher Pol". That's an odd comparison since Cipher Pol is supposed to be their ally.
May give credence to the theory that Cipher Pol was involved in the disappearance of Carmel and the children.
I think that comparison is a shitty translation. "Reports from Cipher Pol are coming…" might make a lot more sense.
Is Jamini out yet, didn't check?
Marines stated this chapter that "reports are coming in that she's more dangerous than Cipher Pol". That's an odd comparison since Cipher Pol is supposed to be their ally.
May give credence to the theory that Cipher Pol was involved in the disappearance of Carmel and the children.
Probably Cipher Pol (not necessarily 0) arrived to finish the deal with Carmel and Linlin destroyed them.
blueno's fruit doesn't give him super speed…he can move in a special dimension and reappar anywhere in the real world but it doesn't give him the ability to move super fast or shorten the time to go from one place to the other..otherwise g2 luffy wouldn't have been too fast for him...
also,the moment he abducts the first child or even carmel the other are going to scatter,which means it would take even more time to compete the abductionI'm curious about the other devil fruits on the list
Of course, it was just a suggestion. Personally I don't think it has to have been a fruit user.
Some other examples Oda could make use of:
Mirror fruit - Run around with a mirror and throw the kids in there.
Paw fruit - Knock them away instanteously
Swamp fruit - I guess we kind of saw Caribou abduct people with this?
Slow fruit - Stretching with this one. Linlin was slowed down so she ate slow.
Really, anything Oda says.
Regardless, we don't have a time frame for how long this took. We see insanely fast characters in OP a lot.
@Count:
So are you saying that Oda's just going to ignore the living Chekov's gun that's right there? That he's just not going to say anything for the rest of the arc or privately whisper the truth into Linlin's ear without any text bubbles or something? Or that Big Mom's just going to forget about this and make her peace with not knowing for some arbitrary reason? Because there would be little point in emphasizing the mystery so much and Streussen being a witness if there's not going to be some sort of reveal. And because of that, I doubt the truth is really as clear-cut as Linlin just killing/eating everybody. Because if the truth is going to get revealed, it most likely wouldn't be something so morbid for a children's magazine like this.
How about Pudding grabs a memory reel from Streusen and inserts it in Big Mom's mind, making her relive that day from a third-person point of view ? Technically, it can happen. I don't know yet what her motivations would be, or how she would know to search Streusen's memories, but certainly that can be arranged in the upcoming chapters.
@Count:
Streussen's Devil Fruit was needed to show that. Streussen specifically being stated to be a witness to what Linlin did in and of itself is the part that's not needed. Oda could have just skipped to Linlin meeting Streussen randomly. But instead, he emphasizes there being two witnesses. Like the fact that somebody saw what happened is important to take into note like a typical mystery novel.
it was needed because linlin neede a tutor to survive since she was still a 5 year old child,it's even stated in this very chapter..and the fact that he saw the whole thing is just narratively tidier than having him show up an hour later,witness some other incredible feat by linlin and deciding to use her
I've been wondering. How come, considering the account from that witness giant, the alliance between Elbaf and Big Mom was ever any kind of option? Was that Loki dude so smitten with Lola (or whoever it was that refused him in the end)? And is he that powerful that he could get away with an alliance with a person whose name can't even be mentioned on Elbaf?
it was needed because linlin neede a tutor to survive since she was still a 5 year old child,it's even stated in this very chapter..and the fact that he saw the whole thing is just narratively tidier than having him show up an hour later,witness some other incredible feat by linlin and deciding to use her
I would agree that it would be making things tidier, but the current situation in the present is Big Mom wondering about what happened to Carmel and the kids. So she has to find out at some point due to Streussen, the one witness. He was written to be a witness just for straightening out the plot a bit cleaner, although that could certainly be a minor reason.
How about Pudding grabs a memory reel from Streusen and inserts it in Big Mom's mind, making her relive that day from a third-person point of view ? Technically, it can happen. I don't know yet what her motivations would be, or how she would know to search Streusen's memories, but certainly that can be arranged in the upcoming chapters.
You pretty much summed it all up. Although if it really is just cannibalism all the way, I'm not too sure about a third-person point of view (as awesome as that would be).
I've been wondering. How come, considering the account from that witness giant, the alliance between Elbaf and Big Mom was ever any kind of option? Was that Loki dude so smitten with Lola (or whoever it was that refused him in the end)? And is he that powerful that he could get away with an alliance with a person whose name can't even be mentioned on Elbaf?
I've mentioned this at least three times in this thread lol. I wonder about the exact same thing. Given that he's, well, Loki, you can never underestimate a trickster like that. And how would Lola's name even get mentioned? I hope this isn't saved all the way for Elbaf lol.
Spoiler:
"Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."
I also still retain some skepticism about it, but if i were to give percentages of probabilty i'd give 75% for Linlin ate them and 25% for whatever other explanation. And the reason is, what would have been the point in the end for Oda to make us think Linlin ate them (because Oda clearly wanted us to think that) if in the end it is revealed something else AND if the surprise of that revelation would have find no context in any of the other character? That revelation would have served only the readers and no other character, even if it is revealed another truth and Linlin can finally find peace that doesn't justify how Oda made the readers suspect of cannibalism but didn't share that suspect with no other character inside the manga, Linlin included. If Linlin was tormented for all her life by the doubt that she ate them, then the revelation that it wasn't true would both serves the readers AND her, but if this suspect was something relegated only to the readers what would have been the point from a narrative standpoint except creating suspance among the readers? That would be one of the worst and lamest move Oda ever did to make the readers follow the weekly serialization. Oda never did something like that, it would be completely unprecedented in OP. He always gave context inside the plot for suspicions, mysteries, but never only to the readers.
That is not to say i totally support the cannibalism scenario, there ARE things suspicious about it, but the pros surpass the cons.
Of course, it was just a suggestion. Personally I don't think it has to have been a fruit user.
Some other examples Oda could make use of:
Mirror fruit - Run around with a mirror and throw the kids in there.
doesn't make you faster, as you say you still need to run around catching kids
Paw fruit - Knock them away instanteously
this might be possible,although the logistic of where everyone are might get in the way or force you to send them all in different places,don't forget that the fruit just pushes you away..it's still physics,although manga physics
Swamp fruit - I guess we kind of saw Caribou abduct people with this?
no way to abduct them all at once without engulfing the table and linlin too
Slow fruit - Stretching with this one. Linlin was slowed down so she ate slow.
that fruit has till a time limit of 30 seconds if i remember correctly
Really, anything Oda says.
Regardless, we don't have a time frame for how long this took. We see insanely fast characters in OP a lot.
i still think we have not seeing anyone that fast that it's not kizaru…we are talking about multiple movieng objects that are not gonna stay still once you start getting them,and that all adds time to the totla needed
also all those children and carmel were way less valuable to anyone than linlin itself,and as we saw she was easily manipulated so why didn't anyone of the abductors stayed there and tried to get her without using force 8since i presume abducting her using force was out of the question)
I've been wondering. How come, considering the account from that witness giant, the alliance between Elbaf and Big Mom was ever any kind of option? Was that Loki dude so smitten with Lola (or whoever it was that refused him in the end)? And is he that powerful that he could get away with an alliance with a person whose name can't even be mentioned on Elbaf?
Considering that Luffy was willing to ally with Bege even after Bege shot an ally of his and captured Sanji, it wouldn't be too out of the question for Elbaf to agree to this for mutual benefit. Hajrudin's hard-line beliefs of honor above all seem to be a minority there, to boot.
Spoiler:
@Count:
I've mentioned this at least three times in this thread lol. I wonder about the exact same thing. Given that he's, well, Loki, you can never underestimate a trickster like that. And how would Lola's name even get mentioned? I hope this isn't saved all the way for Elbaf lol.
Didn't catch it.
Perhaps it's a small foreshadowing of the current state of affairs on Elbaf. Maybe Loki isn't well liked by everyone there and is kind of a douche.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@Kaido:
Considering that Luffy was willing to ally with Bege even after Bege shot an ally of his and captured Sanji, it wouldn't be too out of the question for Elbaf to agree to this for mutual benefit. Hajrudin's hard-line beliefs of honor above all seem to be a minority there, to boot.
That's nothing compared to a monster who destroyed a village, killed one of legendary warriors and then supposedly ate a nun and a dozen children.
Like I said, it probably means the situation on Elbaf might be tense.
My only issue with the "she didn't eat them" argument is that it's so unlikely after this chapter that arguments for it mostly rely on "it wasnt depicted so there's no way to know for sure!" at this point what story significance would there be in Oda revealing that these characters were abducted and not eaten? How likely is it that Oda off paneled BM eating the Soru Soru and is just playing the reader by saying "she just happened to realize she had the power". It's not even like Big Mom knows she ate them so are people trying to argue that if she found them alive and the SH revealed it to her shed let them escape or something? I'm really trying to see the point here.
@Count:
I would agree that it would be making things tidier, but the current situation in the present is Big Mom wondering about what happened to Carmel and the kids. So she has to find out at some point due to Streussen, the one witness. He was written to be a witness just for straightening out the plot a bit cleaner, although that could certainly be a minor reason.
i don't think she has to find out actually..the flashback was for we readers to explain who mother carmel was for her and how she became a yonkou, i see it more as world building than as a plot point…
also even if they were abducted,carmel would be dead by now (she would be older than kureha right now,that was shown as an exeptional case for an human) and the children would be at least in their 70ies is still alive, so their destinity would be kind of inconsequential for the story.
--- Update From New Post Merge ---
I've been wondering. How come, considering the account from that witness giant, the alliance between Elbaf and Big Mom was ever any kind of option? Was that Loki dude so smitten with Lola (or whoever it was that refused him in the end)? And is he that powerful that he could get away with an alliance with a person whose name can't even be mentioned on Elbaf?
a lot of time passed, and linlin went from being a child to a yonkou..having her as an enemy of the giants doesn't help anyone
also it might just have been loki's and him alone that fell so hard for lola, and him being the prince means that he has the authority of doing what he pleases.
I wonder if Garp was a child found by and sold by Carmel too.
Perhaps it's a small foreshadowing of the current state of affairs on Elbaf. Maybe Loki isn't well liked by everyone there and is kind of a douche.
Wouldn't be too different from the mythical Loki lol.
i don't think she has to find out actually..the flashback was for we readers to explain who mother carmel was for her and how she became a yonkou, i see it more as world building than as a plot point…
also even if they were abducted,carmel would be dead by now (she would be older than kureha right now,that was shown as an exeptional case for an human) and the children would be at least in their 70ies is still alive, so their destinity would be kind of inconsequential for the story.
Nah. I disagree since Big Mom's entire character right now is hinging on whether or not she knows the truth about Carmel. Being mystified is too central to the plot right now to not be solved. I mean, it would be one thing if she were to get defeated. But given the likelihood that she will not, is she just going to forget about all of the stress of not knowing what happened to Carmel? Somehow make peace with it despite being such a woman child?
I said only the kids would be abducted. Carmel HAS to be dead, or else Linlin shouldn't have her fruit. And while I don't disagree about the kids being inconsequential as old people, the effect of finding out that she may have murdered Carmel and let her friends get kidnapped while was busy eating will have a similar effect to finding out she just ate them all when it comes to rounding out her trauma and character development.
My only issue with the "she didn't eat them" argument is that it's so unlikely after this chapter that arguments for it mostly rely on "it wasnt depicted so there's no way to know for sure!" at this point what story significance would there be in Oda revealing that these characters were abducted and not eaten? How likely is it that Oda off paneled BM eating the Soru Soru and is just playing the reader by saying "she just happened to realize she had the power". It's not even like Big Mom knows she ate them so are people trying to argue that if she found them alive and the SH revealed it to her shed let them escape or something? I'm really trying to see the point here.
Something like that. I think it's mainly the twist of Carmel's dealings with CP0. If nothing gets payoff from that, it really doesn't contribute anything to the plot besides worldbuilding. And while we all know One Piece LOVES worldbuilding, it usually has a balance between having those elements being relevant both in the present and future, rather than awkwardly being present and emphasized as much as Carmel's deceit without any current payoff. That, and if Linlin learns that she ate the kids, then she never finds out that Carmel lied to her. Whereas if CP0 showed up, there would be a chance that she can connect the dots depending on what happened. Not that she necessarily needs to know in order for the plot to find a resolution, but I feel like Oda would have that revealed given how much he's emphasizing how inspired by Carmel Linlin has been for all of her life. I'm not sure how Linlin would react to finding out the truth about Carmel, but it would definitely payoff into something important. Most likely towards finally realizing her faults.
But hey, it can still just be cannibalism. It's the more likely option, I can admit that. Either way, it can still work towards redemption and easing tension with the Straw Hats. I only think it's a bit weird to see Oda side-stepping around it when Streussen is most likely going to reveal the truth somehow, probably from Pudding revealing his memories. But it might just be that they got eaten and Oda still expects that to be surprising.
I'm more believing the bomb is going to be what helps the SH escape
@Kaido:
Considering that Luffy was willing to ally with Bege even after Bege shot an ally of his and captured Sanji, it wouldn't be too out of the question for Elbaf to agree to this for mutual benefit. Hajrudin's hard-line beliefs of honor above all seem to be a minority there, to boot.
Maybe it was all Loki? He could've wanted the marriage to Lola despite everything if he was head over heels enough, and it sounds like he was.
