That's why she is called Karma-l (translators should check her spelling again), I read through the whole thread and nobody made that joke before. Is it so bad?
Oh my… I never thought of it in that kind of light. Now it all makes sense!
That's why she is called Karma-l (translators should check her spelling again), I read through the whole thread and nobody made that joke before. Is it so bad?
Oh my… I never thought of it in that kind of light. Now it all makes sense!
I won't add anything to discussion, but there's definitely something more going on then Linlin eating everyone accidentally. There is no reason at all to reveal Caramel as slave seller and about to make one last trade only for her to die like this moments later.
It's totally the opposite, Carmel proclaiming it to be her last deal only to be eaten by Linlin moments later, thus making it her (literal) last deal.
Remember those early theories about The Big Mom Pirates being allies after this? OR tha Big Mom had some kind of good side? Oda certainy put most of that to bed.
Idk why some of us are in denial here. We actually see Caramels tattered clothing on the ground
(among other things bitten and bloody ) and 20 years later we know Linlin has her fruit. This is not rocket science.She ate them all, Oda was just very subtle-yet-not-so-subtle in how he portrayed it.
As scary as this is, I don't really see how it makes Linlin more of a villain since she didn't consciously eat Carmel and the kids. If anything, this is going for more of a tragic route. This still isn't something like Doffy shooting his kind father in front of his crying brother pleading him to stop, and then taking his decapitated head back to Mariejois to ask for access. If Oda wants to make us hate a villain, he REALLY goes all the way to make them fully culpable with little-to-no redeemable traits or justifiable excuses. I don't hate young Linlin, I only feel more and more bad for her throughout this flashback.
I'd love see where at least two of these kids are in the present Wedding/Tea party?
Since you asked so kindly:
!
!
These don't even just look like those orphans grown up, they look like their children after becoming a couple of many of her husbands.
@Kaido:
Remember that most of the homies are born randomly as soul fragments scatter throughout the land.
Honestly, I can't really get an opinion of this chapter. There's definitely something more at play than just this, because if the story is just face-value "Big Mom ate Carmel" then Carmel being a human trafficker was extremely pointless.
I agree. Not only is there no point to Carmel's true motives besides minor worldbuilding (and not even the juicy kind that eventually becomes major, because we already know the World Government has a hard-on for giants and would stoop to these kinds of tricks. I can only see this tying into the Revolutionaries' rivalry with CP0 and the likelihood of them showing up on Elbaf), but it goes against making the audience feel a clear way about Linlin's cannibalism. Because on one hand, Carmel deserves this kind of fate, but the kids definitely don't. Oda is usually more clear about making a character sympathetic or hatable.
While I would LOVE if it turned out that Big Mom actually did freaking eat a bunch of kids and her guardian, I think it's equally likely that we're observing a manipulated flashback.
We've been theorizing the ultimate point to Pudding's ability, whether it was used on Big Mom at all, what would she have erased. I'm not going to go into full prediction mode, since there is still so much information to be revealed on this. But I could very easily see this being the result of Pudding tampering with Big Mom's memories.
Perhaps for a while Big Mom did remember eating them all, she kept it secret as it haunted her. Eventually when Pudding would get her fruit, she'd have her remove the traumatic parts of the memory, leaving her under the impression they all did vanish.
If Pudding's memory manipulation don't play a role with Big Mom somehow, then that will be the BIGGEST waste of a character in this entire series by Oda. I like how dark the cannibal twist is too, but I don't know.
@.access:
That's a point, too. So far, what triggers BM and makes she loose her mind is hunger, not eating.
In this chapter she apparently blacked out when she was enjoying some sweets, there wasn't any moment when she was craving for food. This doesn't fit anything she has shown before (however, entering a catatonic state while screaming loudly after seeing Mother Carmel's picture being damaged was a different state introduced out of nowhere. This one could be a third).I honestly don't know what to believe right now…
And this is ALSO weird to me. It just seems so… random. After all of this build-up with the illness craving, she just eats everybody because of happy tears. It didn't really feel like payoff anything rather than just "Well... that happened."
Again, no one has yet to explain what an adolescent Pudding would gain from erasing memories Big Mom is already not even privy to.
I'm loving how much people are disturbed by this though, we're making up any ol excuse even if doesn't make a lick of sense. There are clearly little pools of blood on the ground , at least two. You can tell because it's smeared around the edges. Clothes don t smear…
That's something that we'll probably learn as the story progresses. Like Reiju's facade. Or why Bege wants to start a coup because he's a sociopath. Or the build-up for every flashback. What I do know is that Pudding is going for some sort of redemption route, and we had that brief flashback about her feeling oppressed by Big Mom and seeing Lola leave. That stuff needs to be answered. If we learned at the last minute about Pudding's abuse because of her third eye without any concrete hinting beforehand, then I don't think it's wise to expect an apparent explanation for Pudding's actions before she becomes relevant to the story again.
And I'm not making an excuse for this because I'm "too disturbed". You can try being less condescending when people are pointing out legitimate concerns about this flashback. I don't think cannibalism is above Oda and I love morbid twists, but he's known for playing with our expectations and this is reasonably fishy. What is the point of having Big Mom in an outrage about wondering what happened to Mother Carmel if we know that the assassination plan isn't gonna work and we have a good idea that, whether she becomes some sort of ally or not, she's too powerful to get defeated in this arc? And because Reiju has poison sucking powers, she's going to save SOMEBODY's life after they get hit by Caesar's poisonous KX Launchers. After that portrait got destroyed, Big Mom needs to learn the truth about what happened unless Pudding erases Big Mom's memories about, well, everything to let the Straw Hats escape. But that's such a huge dumb copout, especially considering how much she has to erase in both the past and present.
Another thing that bothers me is the notion that cannibalism is how you steal Devil Fruits. I don't have an issue with this, but I only have to ask… Why? Why would Oda as a writer create two methods to steal Devil Fruits instead of just one? I ask this because I doubt that Blackbeard's a cannibal since there were no visible signs of any tampering with Whitebeard's body. In fact, wouldn't the Devil Fruit immediately leave a person's body after they die? Does it somehow stay there for a while and require cannibalism to be stolen before it gets reincarnated? Punk Hazard clearly shows that Devil Fruits get reincarnated into nearby fruits. And was Burgess just going to kill Luffy and then eat his body in public or something during Dressrosa? So why show that Devil Fruits can be transferred through cannibalism if this is probably only going to be relevant with Big Mom as the only case in the story? Stealing Devil Fruits seems to be Blackbeard's thing and Blackbeard's thing only, so why make multiple methods possible for a result that only one character/faction is going to recurrently use in the story? It's so unnecessary unless he was REALLY in the mood for a tragic German fairy tale-style ending. Almost like a random fun fact in an SBS: "Hey, you can steal Devil Fruits in this other way where you eat people, but nobody's going to consciously do that in the story and it'll only happen once by accident. So I hope you like that fun fact." I don't doubt that Carmel died or that Linlin even ate her while memory tampering and/or CP0 shenanigans still happened. But there has to be more to this.
People aren't really questioning the flashback not making sense as a story about how Big Mom is a cannibal and how her experiences molded her present day character. Mostly everything aligns well without major holes. We're questioning Oda's writing as a storyteller in what he wants us to take from the story and how it adds to the present situation.
Tell you what guys Big mom will be cured by chopper just like the children's from punk hazard and Big mom will somehow come to know that her beloved mother caramel and the kids were taken out by CP0. She will let Straw hats go and direct her anger towards the marines. Only thing we need to see is how she will come to know of that incident and who will inform her what happened that day.
I am not saying she is not pooping or that she in fact ate them. All that I am saying is, that I am quite positive Oda did not have Linlin kill the inhabitans of Sheep's house aka ate them…
Don't you know? People always die during flashback stories.
@Count:
In fact, wouldn't the Devil Fruit immediately leave a person's body after they die? Does it somehow stay there for a while and require cannibalism to be stolen before it gets reincarnated?
I think it takes time for the fruit to leave the dead person's body, otherwise Blackbeard wouldn't have been able to steal it from Whitebeard's corpse, no matter what method he used.
I think it takes time for the fruit to leave the dead person's body, otherwise Blackbeard wouldn't have been able to steal it from Whitebeard's corpse, no matter what method he used.
It's a possibility, I admit. But it's an arbitrary process compared to simply having a fruit on-hand and waiting for that to become a reborn Devil Fruit. Like how Burgess had that big bag during Dressrosa that presumably has a bunch of fruits in it.
This all seems really weird.
First of all this is One Piece, its not cannibalism. Dark Oda isn't happening all of a sudden. Not this Dark.
We have a soul manipulator thats getting old. Shes scheming and wily. She sees the perfect invincible tool to inhabit to further her ambitions. Soul transfer and Big Mom being controlled by Caramel is extremely likely.
Way more likely than Cannibalism. Its almost too obvious a Red Herring, and one we encountered already at Big Moms introduction. Its not Cannibalism.
The more interesting question is, if MC took over, then these childish tantrums would imply that Big Mom is still emotionally or even fully mentally trapped at age 6 in that moment. Thats why things related to Mother Caramel and birthdays trigger her real personality and MC loses control.
Another thing to examine is if BMs original personality is even capable of doing the dirty, or desiring it in the first place. So either MC is procreating old school style using BMs body OR she mightve taken the souls of the children with her into Big Mom. Children that were loyal to her, and implanting their souls into other unwitting victims somehow.
Mother Caramels interest in clones (yes im fully assuming that BM is MC at this point), might be to have empty soulless shells to implant more of her loyal "children" who are not her biological children but actually the kids she took with her on soul transfer into BM.
It explains a whole lot more of her general behaviour, inconsistencies and interactions with Pudding as well. MCs personality would identify with the once beautiful young Carmel, so her comments about how disgusting Puddings 3rd eye is suddenly male all the sense in the world.
Why does the CP0 knew Carmal but never used that knowledge against a rising Yonko like, well, Luffy does right know.
How could they use that info in a meaningful way? You're more likely to provoke Big Mom with something like that. As far as we know CP0 knows about the connection between the two, but not about the photo and BM's reaction to it.
Now that I'm thinking about it, it would be really cool to see CP0 use information to further the Government's fight against pirates. Like leaking info about the 4 Emperors territory to pirates that could cause trouble for them. Or even spreading -I'm so sorry for this- fake news(bigly) to pirates causing them to wind up in the 4 Emperors territory and create a confrontation. Whether it's an attempt to actually attack the 4 Emperors, or vice versa, tricking Pirates they want gone to head right into their territories leading to their demise.
Sadly, given the reaffirmation that CP0 serves the Celestial Dragons and doesn't go too far in directly attacking pirates, I doubt we'll see anything like that in this story.
I really don't know what to say about Big Mom having eaten them. In defence of that there's the fact that it seems to me too much of a coincidence that Big Mom ended up having the Soul Soul no Mi despite never knowing that Mother Carmel also had it. But i also think that if eating someone with a DF will grant the power of the fruit that would have already been discovered earlier in the OP world, even if it is a fucked up thing that very few would do, it can't be that simple.
How could they use that info in a meaningful way? You're more likely to provoke Big Mom with something like that. As far as we know CP0 knows about the connection between the two, but not about the photo and BM's reaction to it.
Now that I'm thinking about it, it would be really cool to see CP0 use information to further the Government's fight against pirates. Like leaking info about the 4 Emperors territory to pirates that could cause trouble for them. Or even spreading -I'm so sorry for this- fake news(bigly) to pirates causing them to wind up in the 4 Emperors territory and create a confrontation. Whether it's an attempt to actually attack the 4 Emperors, or vice versa, tricking Pirates they want gone to head right into their territories leading to their demise.
Sadly, given the reaffirmation that CP0 serves the Celestial Dragons and doesn't go too far in directly attacking pirates, I doubt we'll see anything like that in this story.
I will say that Big Mom's story being linked to the World Government/Marines only empowers my hope that the Marines take her down after the arc instead of Luffy or Blackbeard.
Great chapter here
Definitely a tragic instance on big mom's part
I was a little surprised mother carmel made it out of elbaf
Her being a child slaver was very the promised neverland-esque
I didnt see it at first with the cannabalism hints, I suspected the CP0 deal went wrong somehow and caramel died in an instance where they were involved, I also think some of the children there are hear at the wedding or havd kids with her so I doubt she ate everyone
@Count:
I will say that Big Mom's story being linked to the World Government/Marines only empowers my hope that the Marines take her down after the arc instead of Luffy or Blackbeard.
I'd love to see anything involving the Marines/Gov going against the 4 Emperors. Show us Akainu's Navy! Show us what's so different in the post-Whitebeard New World.
Given the connections to Vegapunk through Judge and Caeser, if any non Marine Government ally were to show up to face of against Big Mom, I'd see it being Kuma. Perhaps with the unrevealed Admiral and Sentomaru. His ability would allow them to travel to Whole Cake without alerting the defense system in the sea. And if there is going to be any further developments with Judge and Germa after this arc, it's going to be tied into Vegapunk. So might as well water those already planted seeds now.
I'd love to see anything involving the Marines/Gov going against the 4 Emperors. Show us Akainu's Navy! Show us what's so different in the post-Whitebeard New World.
Given the connections to Vegapunk through Judge and Caeser, if any non Marine Government ally were to show up to face of against Big Mom, I'd see it being Kuma. Perhaps with the unrevealed Admiral and Sentomaru. His ability would allow them to travel to Whole Cake without alerting the defense system in the sea. And if there is going to be any further developments with Judge and Germa after this arc, it's going to be tied into Vegapunk. So might as well water those already planted seeds now.
I've been really itching for this to happen too.
Now that we know CP0 is involved with stealing giant children from Elbaf, that leads me to think that the Revolutionaries and CP0 will appear in the Elbaf arc. Which is something I have been theorizing for months since it's the only reasonable place to finally see Luffy meet Dragon and Jimbei reunite with Koala before Raftel, because after is most likely going to be the Final War. And then there's the possibility that Vegapunk would show up because of the link to CP0 and the gigantification subplot. And if that's the case, then Kuma could finally show up again so that we learn about his past, and that flashback becomes relevant because the Revolutionaries could be present in Elbaf.
I love how One Piece's seemingly isolated plotlines can cleverly connect. And Greg thinks that the Blackbeard Pirates might show up too lol.
@Count:
As scary as this is, I don't really see how it makes Linlin more of a villain since she didn't consciously eat Carmel and the kids. If anything, this is going for more of a tragic route. This still isn't something like Doffy shooting his kind father in front of his crying brother pleading him to stop, and then taking his decapitated head back to Mariejois to ask for access. If Oda wants to make us hate a villain, he REALLY goes all the way to make them fully culpable with little-to-no redeemable traits or justifiable excuses. I don't hate young Linlin, I only feel more and more bad for her throughout this flashback.
Since you asked so kindly:
! http://i.imgur.com/T6wqL8m.jpg
! http://i.imgur.com/PozOThe.jpg
But what if Big Mom dressed them based on her memories of her childhood friends?
We already know that Big Mom demands her children to her gusto. For example Pudding when she told her to grow out her bangs (Chapter 862).
I mean..just an idea :)
Big Mom knows she is a DF user, right? Does this get in the way of all that DF transfer talk?
But what if Big Mom dressed them based on her memories of her childhood friends?
We already know that Big Mom demands her children to her gusto. For example Pudding when she told her to grow out her bangs (Chapter 862).I mean..just an idea :)
But that actually served a purpose to highlight Pudding's third eye discrimination, pull off her acting, and using it as a tactic to scare Sanji. Asking her children to dress up like her old orphan friends is just… random and weird. And why doesn't Big Mom have somebody dress up as Mother Carmel too?
Big Mom knows she is a DF user, right? Does this get in the way of all that DF transfer talk?
She has to know. That's what makes this even weirder. But then things become more complex when the flashback seems like it was told through third-person rather than first-person because of showing things Linlin shouldn't be aware of, which goes against Pudding possibly manipulating the flashback. Although I can see Oda ignoring that because… Oda.
If Pound knows the name of her Devil Fruit, then so should Big Mom.
Fallbeard is more like Failbeard, getting defeated by a mere 5 year old, am i right^^
But seriously, LinLin is a demon that came into the (already crazy) OP world.
Sadly the world she grew up in is a damn harsh place and nobody was willing to handle her seriously.
Her family didn´t want her because they couldn´t cope with that anomaly of nature.
Mother Carmel saw big money and just treated her in a way LinLin thought she was being loved, but in the end she never was able to experience a real family.
So it isn´t shocking that she always tries to recreate this feeling (even when it was fake) of being loved and having a family.
Thinking about her being all alone after mother Carmel and the kids disappeared makes me sad, because in LinLins eyes, they left her without a reason.
She was never aware of her dangerous condition and nobody told her, so that she could at least have attempted to control it.
After that i imagine that her only wish was to have people around her, which culminated in her creating her family.
But seeing her past, she always was able to get what she wanted and so she is so used to it by now, that nobody dares to say otherwise, because not getting what she wants leads to her being furious or even getting in a tantrum nobody desires to unleash.
http://i.imgur.com/69mGPWU.png
So I guess we're pulling the plug on maskkid being Damask or Killer or whover the hell else people were guessing her grew up to be last week.
That's skull kid.
We are thinking too much about Pudding's ability to alter memories, but what if her fruit relevancy will be using it to access repressed ones?
I really doubt Big Mom just ate a bunch of children. Yes, Oda can go dark; he featured a bunch of kids getting massacred in Laws flashback. But just casually implying that innocent children were eaten alive offscreen? That's not just dark, that's disturbing lol. Also, imho the ending was waaaaay too ambigious to not get a clarification on what actually happened that day later in the story. It's also interesting that Oda didn't show us anything of Big Mom growing up or becoming a Yonkou…I think this flashback will have a sequel.
My theory:
The CP0 intervened, something went wrong. Maybe Little Big Mom discovered then and there that Mother Carmel actually was an evil bitch who didn't care about her at all and couldn't handle this. Obviously, things somehow escalated. Big Mom couldn't handle any of this, so she repressed her memories. Puddings powers will be used to uncover her repressed memories about Mother Carmel later. No idea though what effect that might have on her.
did linlin even see caramel use her devil fruit? if she did then she could put two and two together and realize that she ate her. as far as she knows she ate a devil fruit from somewhere and she can't remember when.
O_O
Another masterful storytelling from Oda-sensei!
Let's keep it simple, Linlin ate Carmel and got her ability that way. BB has yami fruit that can engulf the 'df entity'. The cloth with df swirl design that Burgess was carrying must be a Vegapunk tech or BB found a way to imbue clothing material with his powers. They dont need to eat the person, just kill while covered with the cloth.
I don't think I can agree with a single thing you just said. Time will tell.
Oda = not cannibalism.
Whatever it may be, its not cannibalism.
Oda = not cannibalism.
Whatever it may be, its not cannibalism.
I don't know, law hiding between corpses was pretty dark too.
@.access:
We are thinking too much about Pudding's ability to alter memories, but what if her fruit relevancy will be using it to access repressed ones?
This is is what I expect. Either that, or Pudding repressed the memories Big Mom already doesn't remember.
Oda = not cannibalism.
Whatever it may be, its not cannibalism.
Oda was not a lot of things in the past. There is a first time for everything.
So, this is what would've happened is Oda made Promised Neverland.
I'm convinced Caramel was eaten. Guess it comes down to whether Oda would have a character eat children. If Oda wanted to do it I think he would in a flashback and off screen just like what we got in the chapter. Thank goodness Big Mom never met her:
!
Discovered this particular gem from Volume 16's SBS:
Reader: IF I EAT LUFFY, CAN I BECOME A GOMU HUMAN?!
Oda: You'd get food poisoning.
@Kaido:
Discovered this particular gem from Volume 16's SBS:
Reader: IF I EAT LUFFY, CAN I BECOME A GOMU HUMAN?!
Oda: You'd get food poisoning.
Greg clarified that Oda never said that you would ONLY get food poisoning though.
Big Mom eating everyone is gonna disturb me for a long time.
Mario, I'm not being condescending, I just think it's hilarious how some people are so legit disturbed by this they refuse to believe it. Like if you think it didn't happen because X, then by all means have a go at it until Oda says different.
But the sheer shock of it even being an Oda like thing to do is hilarious to me, if not just interesting. I mean think about it this guy has already touched on genocide , slavery and human trafficking. Yet the cannabalism seems to legit be unbelievable to some? That's funny to me.
Mario, I'm not being condescending, I just think it's hilarious how some people are so legit disturbed by this they refuse to believe it. Like if you think it didn't happen because X, then by all means have a go at it until Oda says different.
But the sheer shock of it even being an Oda like thing to do is hilarious to me, if not just interesting. I mean think about it this guy has already touched on genocide , slavery and human trafficking. Yet the cannabalism seems to legit be unbelievable to some? That's funny to me.
I can understand what you mean in that sense. Sorry for being so confrontational.
It's all good man. All great discussion at the end of the day, thats what we're all here for. Been awhile since a new chapter hasn't made me post in the main chapter thread that doesn't concern Jinbe in any shape or form.
THAT is Oda for you.
Wasn't the tribe that captured Buggy's crew in that coverstory way back when cannibals?
Holy shit, Jabra's old wives' tales still coming back strong after all this time.
Lucci debunked that in the next couple of panels.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Where's the apology?
right right, I forgot that was his superstition.
So this is what Big Mom thinks happened
hmmmm…
@S.C.:
Wasn't the tribe that captured Buggy's crew in that coverstory way back when cannibals?
Yes, but to be fair, that was a completely joke caricature that you see in all kinds of cartoons. Actually having cannibalism happen with realistic consequences of killing people is a whole other level.
Basically, acknowledging cannibalism is one thing, but having it actually happen is another. Not that we haven't seen darker things in this series.
I'm in the camp: Linlin didn't eat anyone.
She loves eating sweet things. She would have realized at some point if she was eating raw human flesh, simply because they don't taste sweet. And we know for a fact that she can differentiate between different kinds of food as she remarked that she was eating the table. The most important information is that she was too focused on eating to realize what was going on around her.
I think that CP0 just did a surprise attack during her birthday party and took everyone by force. Except that you simply cannot take Linlin by force, and because she was so preoccupied by food, she just didn't notice the attack.
Otherwise there was no point in revealing the identity of the Mountain Witch nor her connection to CP0 at that point in time.
I'll also join the believers that none of this flashback seems to be manipulated as it wasn't a flashback from Linlin's point of view. It showed information that she cannot know to begin with (Mountain Witch).
Looking forward to more flashbacks of Big Mom.
While I don't think she ate them …she ate a table and didn't seem to mind the taste so there is a hole in your argument.
@Count:
Yes, but to be fair, that was a completely joke caricature that you see in all kinds of cartoons. Actually having cannibalism happen with realistic consequences of killing people is a whole other level.
Basically, acknowledging cannibalism is one thing, but having it actually happen is another. Not that we haven't seen darker things in this series.
Well, that's only because Captain Buggy was on the scene, of course! :P
This is Carmel:
Turns out Big Mom only ate her lower torso, which is where the Devil Fruit was. As a result of losing her lower torso, she lost her height. It all fits, her facial features, her hands, her greed.
I'm also thinking her life got saved by the Ope Ope no Mi user from that time.
I don't know why people have such a hard time accepting this. Have to ask yourself what plot significance would come of this being a red herring? Oda even went as far as to vilify Mother Caramel by characterizing her as a slaver to soften the blow nor did we really get any character development of the orphans. Why? Because the point of the flashback was to further illustrate that Big Mom is monstrous and these characters were nothing but throw away fodder to help drive that point home.
It's good for discussion I suppose but this is not a "Is Sabo alive or dead?" scenario by any stretch of the imagination.
I'm just wondering how far we're going with Cabbage's cover story, I hope we get to know where Hakuba comes from, and why the Marines adopted the 'Cavendishes' power-level scale.
Wait…. if Linlin actually realized that she accidentally chomped down the table a few times, how on earth she didn't realize that she has eaten 10+ people while enjoying the croquembouche?
There's definitely something more going on here.
So this is what Big Mom thinks happened
hmmmm…
No, this is what the narration is telling us happened as fact. We're not seeing this through her first-person point of view, it's a third-person narration. Hence the narrator bubbles describing the events and places.
If the implication here is that Pudding tampered with her mother's memories, I think it'd make more sense for this to be presented as a monologue or Big Mom herself recounting the events.
I don't know why people have such a hard time accepting this. Have to ask yourself what plot significance would come of this being a red herring? Oda even went as far as to vilify Mother Caramel by characterizing her as a slaver to soften the blow nor did we really get any character development of the orphans. Why? Because the point of the flashback was to further illustrate that Big Mom is monstrous and these characters were nothing but throw away fodder to help drive that point home.
It's good for discussion I suppose but this is not a "Is Sabo alive or dead?" scenario by any stretch of the imagination.
All this flashback illustrates is that Big Mom is a tragic figure to feel sympathy for. If Oda wanted us to view Linlin as a monster who deserves a comeuppance, Oda should have committed like he did with Doffy killing/decapitating his father in front of his brother by having Linlin knowingly eat those kids without remorse. But that's not what happened. Carmel being a bad person only emphasizes sympathy towards Linlin's situation of her role model being a complete fraud, it doesn't lessen it.
This being a red herring can help lead to some form of redemption for Big Mom making amends with the Straw Hats. She's questioning what happened to Mother Carmel, and if she ends up getting assistance in learning the truth (as well as having her imminent rage quelled), she finally becomes a cool-headed person after having the selfish mentality of a spoiled child all her life. Which is likely since she's too powerful to get defeated in this arc. The only other way the Straw Hats can get out of this without anticlimactically escaping without solving necessary plot threads is having Pudding erasing Big Mom's memories, but that would be a LOT of memories to erase and evidence to clean up. And Pudding as a memory manipulator NEEDS to be relevant with Big Mom somehow or else she's a complete waste of a character.
Sabo was always obviously alive. That wasn't really a compelling debate where both sides had merits to their arguments. Oda plays with our perception frequently. Like the other time he made us think Big Mom was a cannibal during Fishman Island. Or with Pudding's deceptive acting in this arc. Or Jimbei potentially being dead or losing a limb. Or Brook breaking the portrait. Or Luffy allying with Bege. All this arc has is twists, twists, and more twists.
@Miss:
No, this is what the narration is telling us happened as fact. We're not seeing this through her first-person point of view, it's a third-person narration. Hence the narrator bubbles describing the events and places.
If the implication here is that Pudding tampered with her mother's memories, I think it'd make more sense for this to be presented as a monologue or Big Mom herself recounting the events.
Oda gives us a character that can manipulate memories..
Don't trust any falshbacks, those are made of memories
@Miss:
No, this is what the narration is telling us happened as fact. We're not seeing this through her first-person point of view, it's a third-person narration. Hence the narrator bubbles describing the events and places.
If the implication here is that Pudding tampered with her mother's memories, I think it'd make more sense for this to be presented as a monologue or Big Mom herself recounting the events.
See, that's the one big thing that's making me feel divided between either possibility. Especially since this flashback covers events Linlin shouldn't know about. But my one notable issue here is that if Pudding did not tamper with Big Mom's memories or will not somehow help Big Mom unlock repressed memories or something… What was the point of giving her memory powers in the first place if we aren't going to get any payoff from that?
@Count:
All this flashback illustrates is that Big Mom is a tragic figure to feel sympathy for. If Oda wanted us to view Linlin as a monster who deserves a comeuppance, Oda should have committed like he did with Doffy killing/decapitating his father in front of his brother by having Linlin knowingly eat those kids without remorse. But that's not what happened. Carmel being a bad person only emphasizes sympathy towards Linlin's situation of her role model being a complete fraud, it doesn't lessen it.
This being a red herring can help lead to some form of redemption for Big Mom making amends with the Straw Hats. She's questioning what happened to Mother Carmel, and if she ends up getting assistance in learning the truth (as well as having her imminent rage quelled), she finally becomes a cool-headed person after having the selfish mentality of a spoiled child all her life. Which is likely since she's too powerful to get defeated in this arc. The only other way the Straw Hats can get out of this without anticlimactically escaping without solving necessary plot threads is having Pudding erasing Big Mom's memories, but that would be a LOT of memories to erase and evidence to clean up. And Pudding as a memory manipulator NEEDS to be relevant with Big Mom somehow or else she's a complete waste of a character.
Sabo was always obviously alive. That wasn't really a compelling debate where both sides had merits to their arguments. Oda plays with our perception frequently. Like the other time he made us think Big Mom was a cannibal during Fishman Island. Or with Pudding's deceptive acting in this arc. Or Jimbei potentially being dead or losing a limb. Or Brook breaking the portrait. Or Luffy allying with Bege. All this arc has is twists, twists, and more twists.
This flashback makes Big Mom a more intricate character but I hardly think it makes her a character heading towards a redemption arc. You're talking about someone who's gluttony for sweets is so great that she literally kills and destroys places just to acquire them. No, the point of that flashback was to give us backstory on Big Mom and to show how messed up her eating frenzies are as well as how dangerous she is. Her eating frenzy is being portrayed almos like an exaggerated form of mental illness so it goes beyond something that can be cured by telling her what happened. This coincides with what we've seen of her killing others close to her as well. Agreed on the Sabo thing though this is probably even more cut and dry than that case.