If Kaido has already shown his awakening, it's inconsistent, bad, or both. It's not implausible that we've already seen it, it would just be a shame. Why? It's kind of obvious, every time we've implicitely seen awakening, it has led to some payoff. Suddenly finding out that Kaido had been awakened during the fight wouldn't really be a payoff.
Chapter 1,049: The World That Should Be
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As for Kaido's awakening, what do you guys think of this? https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/uqxhmn/explaining_the_probably_secret_behind_zoan/
TL:DR, Kaido;s awakening *is his Laughing Drunk/Homicidal Drunk mode
Paramecia awakening - Affect things other than the body.
Zoan awakening – Mind and Body catch up with fruit.
The Sake is required to dull the human mind and let more of the fruit take control. Same with Chopper's Monster point and Luffy being knocked the hell out while fighting for freedom AND the Impel Down guards looking like they are asleep with the nose dripping thing. Awakening a Zoan user requires turning them off and on again, basically, and then managing to keep in that state.
Luffy's Gear Second control lets him control his blood, so he could find the rhythm and effectively reverse engineer awakening.
The theory about the Drunken Kaido hybrid version is a awakened form is nonsense and doesn´t make anysense.
First Oda would clearly state it if it was a awakened df, he legit do it with everyone who showed awakening in the past, why not with Kaido in a raid almost long as DR?
Second he drink and then used the power with meaning it was not just a zoan power skill. Luffy got a entire new form in his unique way, the drunken version just is little bulky and has sharp teeth, it is not even unique.I think people should stop search for excuses to give Kaido awakening with he doesn´t have or kinda not shown it yet.
I mean Oda has time to explain that Law,Kid and Luffy are awakened but not for Kaido and Big mom? Yeah, nooo… -
I do think some characters are awakened despite the story don’t telling us (Brook, Crocodile and Magellan are my main bets), but in a major fight like Kaido’s I’d expect it to be clearly stated or at least implied by some character questioning how he did something.
(i think BM’s awakening is just not a game changer, which is why it was not addressed. Awakening is an increase in versatility more than strength, at least for non-zoans).
Wano predictions: There will be 5 acts; All Straw Hats will get fights, some in Act 4; Big Mom Pirates will arrive; Carrot will have her moment, but won't join; Yamato will be a Kouzuki samurai and Wano's Guardian; Shanks will visit Luffy in Act 5; Next arc is Mary Geoise.
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I do think some characters are awakened despite the story don’t telling us (Brook, Crocodile and Magellan are my main bets), but in a major fight like Kaido’s I’d expect it to be clearly stated or at least implied by some character questioning how he did something.
(i think BM’s awakening is just not a game changer, which is why it was not addressed. Awakening is an increase in versatility more than strength, at least for non-zoans).
With the likes of Brook and Crocodile, I at least know there will be opportunities in the future for Oda to address if they were awakened all along or not.
I just don't see the same with Kaidou, because there were no shortage of moments to address it in this whole 50+ chapter event. He's not returning in the future to suddenly show Awakening.
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He's not returning in the future to suddenly show Awakening.
What makes you so sure? The fact that he was seemingly very much defeated this chapter makes me think that is exactly what will happen; Oda is saving Kaido's awakening for a future arc, just like with Big Mom.
Or he just couldn't come up with an awakening for them that he liked. :ninja:
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So what is the point of Zunesha arriving at wano?
To handle The WG's ships or BM crews or both?
And who or what exactly "moon" in Toki prophecy?
For years I thought it was refering to Orochi or Kaidou or both…
Is it refering to the Wano residents or Flower Capital residents because they still dont realize everything that happen that night of the Raid? -
Someone had to go gasp joyboy is back
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Zunisha also seems important to open Wano’s borders, whatever it means.
Wano predictions: There will be 5 acts; All Straw Hats will get fights, some in Act 4; Big Mom Pirates will arrive; Carrot will have her moment, but won't join; Yamato will be a Kouzuki samurai and Wano's Guardian; Shanks will visit Luffy in Act 5; Next arc is Mary Geoise.
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Chopper can shift into new forms cia medicine.
Black Maria modified her hybrid form via chemistry.
Lucci has two hybrid forms via Seimei Kikan.
Sasaki can rotate his crest to fly because ancient dinosaur knowledge.
Queen can split his body for same reason.
Likewise, King turns his head into a slingshot.
Some zoans, like Who’s Who, have more feral hybrids than others, like Drake.
Why “awakening” would be the default answer for Kaido’s slightly different drunk modes?Because a) His "drunk mode" looks like what we would expect an awakening for his fruit to look like, does it not? When we compare say – Dalton's Hybrid, to Kaido's Hybrid, and then to the Jailer Beasts who -- mind you -- we have as a reference point. We have FOUR Awakened Zoan reference points so we know what to expext (aside from the ParaZoan Luffy) And B) the through line between all confirmed Zoan awakenings, if we add Kaido, is "altered state of consciousness." Luffy is exuberant and laughing like a drunk fuck and the Impel Down Jailers are zoned out of their minds and not even present. It's not a leap that getting into an altered state of consciousness is what is the key to awaken.
Hence Luffy going "Heart, hit that beat" and forcing himself into Gear Second which controls his blood flow to reverse engineer the state, and Kaido using alchohol to lower his inhibitions and lean into his more beerserk stages.
Black Maria, Queen, Sasaki, Lucci. Queen, and King all keep the same form. Lucci just gets slimmer. We literally see the other CP9 guy do the same thing. You may as well argue Shigan is a zoan property if you're counting Lucci.
--- Update From New Post Merge ---
It makes no sense to me when the guy is constantly guzzling down alcohol. Has anyone with that theory been drunk before?
He doesn't have to awaken when drunk, but he needs to be drunk to awaken. Hence why he took it and his haki got stronger. When Luffy awakened, both times, his haki visibly throbbed or pulsed. And that sounds like a euphemism…
--- Update From New Post Merge ---
The theory about the Drunken Kaido hybrid version is a awakened form is nonsense and doesn´t make anysense.
First Oda would clearly state it if it was a awakened df, he legit do it with everyone who showed awakening in the past, why not with Kaido in a raid almost long as DR?
Second he drink and then used the power with meaning it was not just a zoan power skill. Luffy got a entire new form in his unique way, the drunken version just is little bulky and has sharp teeth, it is not even unique.I think people should stop search for excuses to give Kaido awakening with he doesn´t have or kinda not shown it yet.
I mean Oda has time to explain that Law,Kid and Luffy are awakened but not for Kaido and Big mom? Yeah, nooo…Did you see why I said the drinking could be necessary. If we assume that Devil Fruits can "go on a rampage", as we know from chopper, and that Zoans "have a spirit", the key to Zoan awakening, unlike Paramecia awakening, is "emptying the vessel", so to speak. Hence Luffy awakens at near death when his "voice" dies out, and Kaido gets wasted. It's not a "Ohh he's drunk, therefore awakeneing", it's "what does being drunk" and "what does being hit in the head really hard" and "being asleep" have in common?
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Also, let me end it here. Ever theory needs to explain something. Now, let's grant my theory for the sake of argument. Here are a few questions it answers:
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Why does Kaido explain awakening twice? Is Oda that bad at writing? In 1044, he says turning things into rubber is a Paramyhthis awakening. In 1045, he says awakening is what happens when your mind and body catch up? What does the body habe to do with -- Katakuri or Law whose awakenings affect things that are "not them". A) This is because Kaido realises Luffy is a Zoan of some sort, and thus he gives a more tailored explanation.
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Why does Kaido ask "who are you"? Is he so drunk he forgot who Luffy was? Granting my theory, again, an awakened Zoan would know that the Zoan user gets taken over by their Zoan spirit. So asking "who are you"? Is a valid question in that scenario. Note, the second time Luffy answers the question is when he gives the "Zoan awakening" explanation.
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The biggest question. Why does Oda just not say it then? And the answer is it's tied to the joyboy explanation.
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Why does Luffy do the Gear second pose to awaken/how does he know how to do it? He's basically been practisiing for it his whole life.
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Why was Impel Down full of Awakened Zoans and not CP9 or the Vice Admirals? Because it's not a net benefit for the more animalistic Zoans.
It's not just a random, "He's drunk therefore awakened". Like I said, Oda could very well answer it. But its not worth dismissing just because "Oda hasn't said so yet", anymore than any other theory or thought you had is worth dismissing because "Oda hasnt said so yet."
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Did you see why I said the drinking could be necessary. If we assume that Devil Fruits can "go on a rampage", as we know from chopper, and that Zoans "have a spirit", the key to Zoan awakening, unlike Paramecia awakening, is "emptying the vessel", so to speak. Hence Luffy awakens at near death when his "voice" dies out, and Kaido gets wasted. It's not a "Ohh he's drunk, therefore awakeneing", it's "what does being drunk" and "what does being hit in the head really hard" and "being asleep" have in common?
So Luffy need be almost in near death situation to use G5 awakened power? Are you implying that a Yonkou can´t used awakening without being drunk?
Chopper need his rumble balls because he alone is not strong enough, but here we speak about a Yonkou who has so much knowledge about awakening and yet he can´t awake it on his own without being drunk?
Sry but this sound so nonsense, I get what you try to explain and I understand you point, but a Yonkou should be able to awake on his own without needing extra tools.As example, why BM didn´t used awakening, she isn´t a zoan? Why Oda skip her awakening too? Both Yonkou who ruling the seas over 20years, who have so much experince and knowledge, simple didn´t used their df awakened power. I rather take a non awakening Kaido then to get a excuse to give Kaido a bad awakened power as what you show with the theory…
Let me ask you simple this question, how many awakened user we know so far?
Nine people knows awakening and how we get the info that they are awakened?
Yeah Oda confirmed it with a statement that these people been awakened df users, he did it for Doflamingo,Jailer Beasts,Katakuri,Luffy,Kid and Law.So why he didn´t confirmed it for one of the most important characters? It is not like Oda was in hurry, for BM as example, she began her fight with Kid in chapter 1013 and she was defeated in chapter 1040 and you wanna tell me that Oda had never a single time to explain us(the readers) that BM was already using her awakened power?
People saying stuff like:"Oda probably forget that BM using awakening,probably for Kaido too", they make it sound like that Oda didn´t had the time and was in hurry so he forget it but that is kinda a false thought.He has time for Law and Kid to drop the statement of them using awakening(multiple times) but the opponent who also face them, didn´t had any time to get a awakened df statement too?
Same for Kaido, he even fought like 60chapters, let say we forget all the part and count only the Bulky version vs Luffy, who was shown in chapter 1037 and other chapters, Kaido probably got defeated in 1049, Oda didn´t get anytime to drop a line of Kaido saying that he is also using awakening?Sorry but that sound bullshit, I doubt that Oda forget to mentioned that Kaido and BM been already awakened, it more like they really been not awakened df user.
Or Oda really try to surprise us soon with revealing their true power(awakened df power). But outside of that it doesn´t make sense for Oda to not reveal Kaido using awakening during 1037-1048, hell Oda even had enough time to Kaido to speak about awakened df power and show his knowledge twice!! But he has not time to reveal that the two Yonkous had awakened df power?Sorry but the theory sound very bad for me.
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I did too thought about if Kaido going drunk was a way of him tapping into his Awakened powers. But, no. Oda makes it clear when there's Awakening happening. And since he didn't explicitly stated that Kaido was using his Awakening, I'm pretty sure Kaido didn't Awaken.
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The Black hole is supposed to suck/absorb everything
why should Haki be excluded ??
it sure had nice moments here and there but overall it's quite bad imo.
How should a black hole suck in willpower?
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I always assumed that part of what made Kaido so tough was that he had an awakened zoan.
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I think a lot of people here just make theories about the story and then rant about it not happening, personally I'm fine with Kaido's defeat and his flashback, that said I think I get the whole "it feels flat or different " complains, but that may be because Kaido is getting back up but not as enemy, after all there is the kabuki play 5act thing, and if it is so then we are going into act 4,wich would be all the exhausted pirates fighting against marines and cp0 maybe will finally see the weapons the science division have build, with Kaido epically dying then.
On awakenings I still think Kaido an BM are awakened there is no reason for them not to be and there is no need to mention they are, I think the fact that Doffy an Katakuri mention it was just to introduce the mater of awakenings and foreshadow luffy's, the same with kid's and law's it forshadows luffy's and give then the power up they needed in the fight.
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Honestly, among all the issues I have with the One Piece right now, "Luffy is too strong", isn't one. We've (or many of us have) been following the lill guy for over two decades now, while he was trying to become THE top dog…it was only a question of time and personally, I'm looking forward to seeing the pay-off of his struggle.
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So Luffy need be almost in near death situation to use G5 awakened power? Are you implying that a Yonkou can´t used awakening without being drunk?
Chopper need his rumble balls because he alone is not strong enough, but here we speak about a Yonkou who has so much knowledge about awakening and yet he can´t awake it on his own without being drunk?
Sry but this sound so nonsense, I get what you try to explain and I understand you point, but a Yonkou should be able to awake on his own without needing extra tools.As example, why BM didn´t used awakening, she isn´t a zoan? Why Oda skip her awakening too? Both Yonkou who ruling the seas over 20years, who have so much experince and knowledge, simple didn´t used their df awakened power. I rather take a non awakening Kaido then to get a excuse to give Kaido a bad awakened power as what you show with the theory…
Let me ask you simple this question, how many awakened user we know so far?
Nine people knows awakening and how we get the info that they are awakened?
Yeah Oda confirmed it with a statement that these people been awakened df users, he did it for Doflamingo,Jailer Beasts,Katakuri,Luffy,Kid and Law.So why he didn´t confirmed it for one of the most important characters? It is not like Oda was in hurry, for BM as example, she began her fight with Kid in chapter 1013 and she was defeated in chapter 1040 and you wanna tell me that Oda had never a single time to explain us(the readers) that BM was already using her awakened power?
People saying stuff like:"Oda probably forget that BM using awakening,probably for Kaido too", they make it sound like that Oda didn´t had the time and was in hurry so he forget it but that is kinda a false thought.He has time for Law and Kid to drop the statement of them using awakening(multiple times) but the opponent who also face them, didn´t had any time to get a awakened df statement too?
Same for Kaido, he even fought like 60chapters, let say we forget all the part and count only the Bulky version vs Luffy, who was shown in chapter 1037 and other chapters, Kaido probably got defeated in 1049, Oda didn´t get anytime to drop a line of Kaido saying that he is also using awakening?Sorry but that sound bullshit, I doubt that Oda forget to mentioned that Kaido and BM been already awakened, it more like they really been not awakened df user.
Or Oda really try to surprise us soon with revealing their true power(awakened df power). But outside of that it doesn´t make sense for Oda to not reveal Kaido using awakening during 1037-1048, hell Oda even had enough time to Kaido to speak about awakened df power and show his knowledge twice!! But he has not time to reveal that the two Yonkous had awakened df power?Sorry but the theory sound very bad for me.
Well, when you want to read my theory you’re welcome to do so. I read your reply with great interest, but you appear to have invented something in your head and angrily replied to it. “Luffy needs to be in Near death to use Awakening” is not something I said, for one. I said, Luffy reverse engineeered the feeling of awakening the first time with his mastery of Gear second and his blood flow
And “a Yonko needs to be drunk” is neither here nor there. If the rule is for Zoan awakenings “They must have x mind state “, then that’s the rule. Getting drunk to access power isn’t an uncommon thing in manga. Read what I’m actually saying, not what you think I’m saying, not what every person with the theory is saying.But anyway, this reception went down with a thunk, so feel free to ignore it. Or insult it. Whatever.
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Because a) His "drunk mode" looks like what we would expect an awakening for his fruit to look like, does it not? When we compare say – Dalton's Hybrid, to Kaido's Hybrid, and then to the Jailer Beasts who -- mind you -- we have as a reference point. We have FOUR Awakened Zoan reference points so we know what to expext (aside from the ParaZoan Luffy) And B) the through line between all confirmed Zoan awakenings, if we add Kaido, is "altered state of consciousness." Luffy is exuberant and laughing like a drunk fuck and the Impel Down Jailers are zoned out of their minds and not even present. It's not a leap that getting into an altered state of consciousness is what is the key to awaken.
Hence Luffy going "Heart, hit that beat" and forcing himself into Gear Second which controls his blood flow to reverse engineer the state, and Kaido using alchohol to lower his inhibitions and lean into his more beerserk stages.
Black Maria, Queen, Sasaki, Lucci. Queen, and King all keep the same form. Lucci just gets slimmer. We literally see the other CP9 guy do the same thing. You may as well argue Shigan is a zoan property if you're counting Lucci.
--- Update From New Post Merge ---
He doesn't have to awaken when drunk, but he needs to be drunk to awaken. Hence why he took it and his haki got stronger. When Luffy awakened, both times, his haki visibly throbbed or pulsed. And that sounds like a euphemism...
--- Update From New Post Merge ---
Did you see why I said the drinking could be necessary. If we assume that Devil Fruits can "go on a rampage", as we know from chopper, and that Zoans "have a spirit", the key to Zoan awakening, unlike Paramecia awakening, is "emptying the vessel", so to speak. Hence Luffy awakens at near death when his "voice" dies out, and Kaido gets wasted. It's not a "Ohh he's drunk, therefore awakeneing", it's "what does being drunk" and "what does being hit in the head really hard" and "being asleep" have in common?
--- Update From New Post Merge ---
Also, let me end it here. Ever theory needs to explain something. Now, let's grant my theory for the sake of argument. Here are a few questions it answers:
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Why does Kaido explain awakening twice? Is Oda that bad at writing? In 1044, he says turning things into rubber is a Paramyhthis awakening. In 1045, he says awakening is what happens when your mind and body catch up? What does the body habe to do with -- Katakuri or Law whose awakenings affect things that are "not them". A) This is because Kaido realises Luffy is a Zoan of some sort, and thus he gives a more tailored explanation.
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Why does Kaido ask "who are you"? Is he so drunk he forgot who Luffy was? Granting my theory, again, an awakened Zoan would know that the Zoan user gets taken over by their Zoan spirit. So asking "who are you"? Is a valid question in that scenario. Note, the second time Luffy answers the question is when he gives the "Zoan awakening" explanation.
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The biggest question. Why does Oda just not say it then? And the answer is it's tied to the joyboy explanation.
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Why does Luffy do the Gear second pose to awaken/how does he know how to do it? He's basically been practisiing for it his whole life.
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Why was Impel Down full of Awakened Zoans and not CP9 or the Vice Admirals? Because it's not a net benefit for the more animalistic Zoans.
It's not just a random, "He's drunk therefore awakened". Like I said, Oda could very well answer it. But its not worth dismissing just because "Oda hasn't said so yet", anymore than any other theory or thought you had is worth dismissing because "Oda hasnt said so yet."
I doubt that kaido needs to be drunk to be in an awakened state, the way I see it there is no awakened state, the person is either awakened or is not, and once awakened then they are always awakened, the way I understood it is basically the mind and body being able to use 100% of the fruit's ability, I think that both BM and Kaido are awakened we just don't have a point of reference of when they weren't to know the difference, for example if we see Kid fighting in the future and he creates a magnetic field somewhere or on someone, we know he is using the powers he got after awakening, but if you didn't know about it beforehand and Kid started using that power you wouldn't know he is awakened.
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I still think with all Luffy has he would still lose to a fresh Kaido. Considering Kaido is the one on one king.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Glad the fight is FINALLY over. Kinda weird that in the end I only want for it to end no matter what the process is… and well, it was very meh. For a god fruit with an imagination-based power the finisher is very lacking in creativity imo. Literally the same finisher as Doffy, but only BIGGER. Also the coreography is just... not there.
As for the flashback, it was VERY lacking imo. Big Mom had that 2 awesome yet disturbing flashback, and Kaido is... again, just there. Very disjointed all over, interceded by yet FILLER pages and people running around. I think Oda is forced to insert Kaido's flashback but he had so little pages to plan... which is easily avoided IF ONLY he cut unnecessary filler pages.
At least it's over, so thank every deity above for it.
All this Haki power up, speed with G4, future sight just for "Big Punch go brrr". Albeit with Ryuo but still same thing.
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While I do think those who have a problem with Luffy beating the strongest creature including Greg, I think part of the major problem is the fact that, they had theories on how Kaido would go down which didn't come to fruition and the reason for the major disappointment.
Nope, or perhaps I should say, not here.
I've separated myself from being disappointed when things don't go how I think they will. That alone isn't going to upset me in any way. In fact, and people who know me longest can attest to this, I'm never happier than when I'm wrong.
What happened here is, while Oda didn't take one path I suggested (even though there's still room for him to achieve the same result) what's disappointing is comparing his work to his own work.
Oda didn't hit the beats he usually hits and he didn't tie up the action (yet) with a meaningful 'bigger picture' emotional moment like he almost always does.
It's not a case of Oda not doing what I wanted him to do.
It's a case of Oda not doing what he usually does.
But, that's just me.
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Oda didn't hit the beats he usually hits and he didn't tie up the action (yet) with a meaningful 'bigger picture' emotional moment like he almost always does.
Yeah. This is kinda the biggest issue I had. The final blow against Kaido is sending him deep into the ground….which I don't really get the intention of.
Compare it to Crocodile getting blasted into broad daylight after keeping his activities hidden, Doflamingo, the heavenly king, getting sent down to the ground, or Katakuri falling on his back at the end.
I can get the idea of wanting Luffy's final blow to be what he actually trained for in Wano, but I don't see any more meaning than that.
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This was okay.
I'm reserving to judge what happened here fully for now because it feels incomplete. Most of the Kaido fight so far has been a blast, even.
I enjoyed pretty much all of the fights in this section of the story, but if this truly is the end, pretty much all of them had more interesting character writing backing them.
This needs more substance to land.
A big complaint about this arc has been that Luffy keeps getting up without much downtime, but I don't care because One Piece kills and makes characters struggle in very specific circumstances and ways anyway. It absolutely wouldn't surprise me if Pedro popped up again.
The meaning was backed with stronger plotting pre-timeskip, but it doesn't break the story for me.
But if there is no substantial meaning to latch on to, it's just generic shounen #135679 and I can enjoy that, but I think as people above said OP has been more than that to me.
I disliked how Doflamingo was defeated because of this, too because I thought Doflamingo deserved more due to all of the depth he was given (but at least he doesn't seem to be completely gone, so I think we could still get more on him). Hody's defeat had more meaning than any of this.
As said just based on this chapter, it feels okay and as also said, I very much want to wait before I fully judge because it feels incomplete. Could be fun if this deviates from formula a little which I feel you could do with this.
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We were riding dissappointment train since nika came to be.
Lets not pretend things were going flawless.
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That too.
There's gonna be a major lore drop soon, which is part of why a surprising amount of people want the Kaido fight to end already.
Speaking of Zunesha and major drops, I wonder if new islands are born every time it takes a shit.
And if yes, do people live there?
…Maybe that's what Laugh Tale is? That is what Roger find so funny about it, that it's giant Arale poop island? That's why he called it One Piece? And it's also Zunesha's crime?
Someone sbs this pls.Curiosity has its own reason for existing
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How should a black hole suck in willpower?
Haki is more than willpower, it is a consumable energy that could be launched as an attack force and it does carry a weight hence blocking WB shake wave
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Regarding the tension thing, I never really felt that the arc was lacking any of it really, the stakes are extremely high, the fighting has been very prolonged with lots of ups and downs, to the point where a "will the raid fail?" question was never conclusively killed for over 60 chapters of fighting.
The narrative tension wasn't in "will they do it?", it was always gonna be "how will they do it?" And once you look at this arc as a slightly different take on the typical Oda SH arc formula (your Enies Lobbys, Alabastas etc) and not a Marineford 2.0, a lot of the larger decisions Oda took make much more sense.
Why would a reader ever tolerate the idea of having Luffy down for more than 1-2 chapters? It's fake tension that will never ever get bought into by the reader because we all know there are outside the manga reasons that ensure his survival, same goes for all the Strawhats. A different logic takes place with characters like Hyogoro/Kinemon etc, if you don't care for them when they're alive, then why would a potential death in that category of characters really move the needle with you?
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Honestly, I'm pretty disappointed with how things have been going since Nika stuff started happening. And I'm not that confident in getting that "Satisfying" conclusion at this point.
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The feeling about what enemy could face Luffy after he beat Rob Lucci, it is the same as we feel with Kaido. After that fight I could not imagine what kind of monster could ficht Luffy face to face, but guess what?, Oda changed my mind. I'm not worried at all for that, Oda always finds a way to make the next enemy threatening, maybe between enemies before final enemies (BB and Admirals, I don't think Im will be a strong enemy) are going to feel weaker (like Hodi, Ceasar, etc), but that won't stop the story to be fun like always.
For my part, I'm happy with this arc, I like how Kaido was defeated, the double page shows a lot, how luffy with his wishes overcomes Kaido wishes and win because his emperor haki (related with will) overpower Kaido. We can see how strong the punch is when Kaido dash super quick and the explosion in the earth, finally seeing the wishes of wano people that wants Kaido to disappear, for me it was an amazing double spread with a lot of meaning. It is truth the double spread of the final attack with Rob Lucci looks amazing, but it is only one scene and for me this double spread has more into it.
And I'm not so angry about Luffy reawakenings. The first one served to make Yamato shine, the second one served to make Luffy fruit awakening and the third showed us that luffy is totally tired even if he is using the awakening state of his fruit (we will see in the aftermatch the consequences of using the fruit in such terrible state).
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Question about Kaido's awakening. If you're an awakened zoan, why are you not fighting in an awakened form as soon as you go hybrid?
So you use an awakening once you lose a fight? Hehe, I got you! I almost died there so now I'll awaken xD. Makes no sense.Kaido gave Luffy his props, if he had another form he should've used it when Luffy went gear 5. He did use the fire dragon :ninja:
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Regarding the tension thing, I never really felt that the arc was lacking any of it really, the stakes are extremely high, the fighting has been very prolonged with lots of ups and downs, to the point where a "will the raid fail?" question was never conclusively killed for over 60 chapters of fighting.
The narrative tension wasn't in "will they do it?", it was always gonna be "how will they do it?" And once you look at this arc as a slightly different take on the typical Oda SH arc formula (your Enies Lobbys, Alabastas etc) and not a Marineford 2.0, a lot of the larger decisions Oda took make much more sense.
Why would a reader ever tolerate the idea of having Luffy down for more than 1-2 chapters? It's fake tension that will never ever get bought into by the reader because we all know there are outside the manga reasons that ensure his survival, same goes for all the Strawhats. A different logic takes place with characters like Hyogoro/Kinemon etc, if you don't care for them when they're alive, then why would a potential death in that category of characters really move the needle with you?
Fact is, those who insisted on that were arguing that everything was going way too easily and smoothly and at some point something, anything had to happen to throw a wrench into our hero's works. First that the Big Mom pirates would arrive, then the tobi roppo would get up, then the all star awakenen, then kaido awaken… nope.
Meanwhile the heroes got second, third, fourth wind, free buffets, extremely convenient never mention before magic drugs, extremely conveniently timed nazi wolverine genes awakening, god mode unlocked through dying...
I agree with you that we're supposed to ask ourselves "how" and not "if", but at least we should have some time to allow that question to breath a little, instead of "I wonder how he'll recover form that turn page oh, nevermind, no issue then"Curiosity has its own reason for existing
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Question about Kaido's awakening. If you're an awakened zoan, why are you not fighting in an awakened form as soon as you go hybrid?
So you use an awakening once you lose a fight? Hehe, I got you! I almost died there so now I'll awaken xD. Makes no sense.Kaido gave Luffy his props, if he had another form he should've used it when Luffy went gear 5. He did use the fire dragon :ninja:
It's never been said that awakened zoans have a different form.
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Speaking of Zunesha and major drops, I wonder if new islands are born every time it takes a shit.
And if yes, do people live there?
…Maybe that's what Laugh Tale is? That is what Roger find so funny about it, that it's giant Arale poop island? That's why he called it One Piece? And it's also Zunesha's crime?
Someone sbs this pls.16chars of made my day
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It's never been said that awakened zoans have a different form.
Didn't Kaido imply that? Luffy can change the surroundings like a paramecia but he got a form like a zoan?
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I see where you are coming from now and it's the same for me as well, there is just something lacking especially from the finisher, I can't feel the emotional impact. There is something seriously lacking lately from Oda writing, and I don't think his editor is doing a good job, I don't even know if he takes up a volume and read it over.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Nope, or perhaps I should say, not here.
I've separated myself from being disappointed when things don't go how I think they will. That alone isn't going to upset me in any way. In fact, and people who know me longest can attest to this, I'm never happier than when I'm wrong.
What happened here is, while Oda didn't take one path I suggested (even though there's still room for him to achieve the same result) what's disappointing is comparing his work to his own work.
Oda didn't hit the beats he usually hits and he didn't tie up the action (yet) with a meaningful 'bigger picture' emotional moment like he almost always does.
It's not a case of Oda not doing what I wanted him to do.
It's a case of Oda not doing what he usually does.
But, that's just me.
I see where you are coming from now and it's the same for me as well, there is just something lacking especially from the finisher, I can't feel the emotional impact. There is something seriously lacking lately from Oda writing, and I don't think his editor is doing a good job, I don't even know if he takes up a volume and read it over.
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Didn't Kaido imply that? Luffy can change the surroundings like a paramecia but he got a form like a zoan?
I don't think so, I think he was mentioning that transforming is a zoan thing in general not about awakenings, if awakening would give another form to zoan's it would make no sense that none of the commanders or flying 6 had them, I think zoan awakening is just the increase in strength and recovery mention in Impel Down, luffy is an exception.
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So guys.
Is it safe to say that Zoro was a much better fighter than King?
Because other than Zoro, hilariously not knowing his race in order to beat him, King wasn't really that much of a threat to him.
The moment he understood King, he easily beat him.
This really dissapointed me, because Oda showed that he was capable of showing a true fight with Luffy vs Katakuri.
Even though Luffy found out how to get around Katakuri's greatest weapon.
Katakuri was still using it to counter Luffy and dodge his attacks.
Also Law vs Doflamingo felt like a fight between 2 masters of their fruits.
It went from a fight between an inferior and superior. To a fight between equals and Luffy earned his victory.
In Wano, it feels like absolutely know one earned their victory. Luffy included.
I am just dissapointed that the antagonists never got the chance to display their full strength against worthy opponents.
We apologized for it in Dressrosa because Oda clearly set it up to show that Doflamingo family had grown old and complacent.
But in Wano? dissapointing.
I still don't see how this crew could hold its own against the other emperors.
HOW COME LUFFY NEVER KILLS AN ENEMY?
ODA:ITS BECAUSE IN THAT ERA EVERYONE USES THEIR LIVES TO FIGHT FOR THEIR DREAMS. FOR AN ENEMY WHEN THEIR DREAM HAS BEEN SHATTERED,IT IS AS PAINFUL AS DEATH,I BELIEVE FOR A PIRATE NOT TO KILL AN ENEMY , IT'S GIVING THEM A SECOND CHANCE TO FIGHT FOR THEIR DREAMS.
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Because other than Zoro, hilariously not knowing his race in order to beat him, King wasn't really that much of a threat to him.
You keep going back to that like its an absurd thing that needs mocking, but it wasn't a racist "he's black!" thing, but its completely legitimate when you are talking about a actually wholly different species with magic powers.
Zoro knew the guy's fire abilities were NOT from a devil fruit, but they were making him basically invincible. If it was just a mythical zoan or a logia then… attack with haki, problem solved. But it was a weird other power he couldn't immediately overcome.
Zoro had never seen a Lunarian before, so he didn't know how the fire and the healing worked or when to do his attacks.
It'd be the same as fighting a fishman and NOT being aware that they're 10x stronger underwater and able to manipulate water while still fighting them next to a large body of water. Or fighting a mink under a full moon and not knowing about their transformation. Or even fighting a fruit user and not knowing they're a fruit user, like when he slashed Buggy and then got sneak attacked.
When he fought Pica he had to figure out how the devil fruit worked... but if Pica had also been a fishman and was dragging water along with stone, Zoro would have needed to figure out what was what in order to counter it.
But now he knows how Lunarian fire works, if he ever fights another Lunarian he'll one-shot him.
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Zoro's battles are boring as fuck. Good thing we have sanji's battles that are fun. Too bad oda rushed queen vs sanji a bit and didn't allow queen to go haki mode, maybe anime can cover that.
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Uh… Zoro didn't only figure King's race, he also got a power up in the form of COC coating, which from Kaido's words is something that "only a handful of the very strongest" can use.
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You keep going back to that like its an absurd thing that needs mocking, but it wasn't a racist "he's black!" thing, but its completely legitimate when you are talking about a actually wholly different species with magic powers.
Zoro knew the guy's fire abilities were NOT from a devil fruit, but they were making him basically invincible. If it was just a mythical zoan or a logia then… attack with haki, problem solved. But it was a weird other power he couldn't immediately overcome.
Zoro had never seen a Lunarian before, so he didn't know how the fire and the healing worked or when to do his attacks.
It'd be the same as fighting a fishman and NOT being aware that they're 10x stronger underwater and able to manipulate water while still fighting them next to a large body of water. Or fighting a mink under a full moon and not knowing about their transformation. Or even fighting a fruit user and not knowing they're a fruit user, like when he slashed Buggy and then got sneak attacked.
When he fought Pica he had to figure out how the devil fruit worked... but if Pica had also been a fishman and was dragging water along with stone, Zoro would have needed to figure out what was what in order to counter it.
But now he knows how Lunarian fire works, if he ever fights another Lunarian he'll one-shot him.
Oh boy Robby.
I think you got me completely wrong.
Real world Race, and King being Black was absolutely the furthest thing from my mind.
I keep mocking the race thing because, there is nothing Zoro could have known when he discovered his race that he could not have known by simple observation and just being a good fighter.
Understanding his race should not have factored into the fight whatsoever.
Zoro could have just observed and used his experience to beat his opponents.
Its why devil fruits were so fun in the beginning.
You didn't need to know the properties of sand and its history to beat Crocodile. Luffy just observed that water made sand tangible and he went with it.
He learned this after he was able to grab Crocodile's hand with his bloodied hand during the first fight.
I just think its hilarious that Zoro somehow had to learn about his opponents race in order to beat him.
It was the first time that ever happened and it makes no sense.
HOW COME LUFFY NEVER KILLS AN ENEMY?
ODA:ITS BECAUSE IN THAT ERA EVERYONE USES THEIR LIVES TO FIGHT FOR THEIR DREAMS. FOR AN ENEMY WHEN THEIR DREAM HAS BEEN SHATTERED,IT IS AS PAINFUL AS DEATH,I BELIEVE FOR A PIRATE NOT TO KILL AN ENEMY , IT'S GIVING THEM A SECOND CHANCE TO FIGHT FOR THEIR DREAMS.
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So guys.
Is it safe to say that Zoro was a much better fighter than King?
Because other than Zoro, hilariously not knowing his race in order to beat him, King wasn't really that much of a threat to him.
The moment he understood King, he easily beat him.
This really dissapointed me, because Oda showed that he was capable of showing a true fight with Luffy vs Katakuri.
Even though Luffy found out how to get around Katakuri's greatest weapon.
Katakuri was still using it to counter Luffy and dodge his attacks.
Also Law vs Doflamingo felt like a fight between 2 masters of their fruits.
It went from a fight between an inferior and superior. To a fight between equals and Luffy earned his victory.
In Wano, it feels like absolutely know one earned their victory. Luffy included.
I am just dissapointed that the antagonists never got the chance to display their full strength against worthy opponents.
We apologized for it in Dressrosa because Oda clearly set it up to show that Doflamingo family had grown old and complacent.
But in Wano? dissapointing.
I still don't see how this crew could hold its own against the other emperors.
yeah im with you there. none of the fights in this arc have been at all satisfying, save g5 luffy vs kaido and parts of the emperors vs the worst gen. i mean queen decided to go after some random woman in the middle of his fight and that led to his loss. the beast pirates were all complete jobbers. ulti probably had the best showing.
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@uniaka:
Zoro's battles are boring as fuck. Good thing we have sanji's battles that are fun. Too bad oda rushed queen vs sanji a bit and didn't allow queen to go haki mode, maybe anime can cover that.
I still think that: Queen, Ulti and to some extent Jack. are the only interesting characters in the beast pirates.
I will never forget how odd, yet sweet it was that Kaidou expressed concern for Jack.
He was always bullied by his 2 older bros but his dad still loved him.
Its a shame Oda forgot that the beast pirates were made up of more than just King and Kaidou.
It would have been absolutely neat to see how Jack and Queen came to be his commanders.
Also, Kaidou took in Ulti and Page one as kids and pretty much raised them.
There is so much to this guy. I still feel a small sense of loss that we might never get to see his story to completion.
Because lets be honest, the next time we see him in flashback will be as a background character in the Rocks backstory–- Update From New Post Merge ---
yeah im with you there. none of the fights in this arc have been at all satisfying, save g5 luffy vs kaido and parts of the emperors vs the worst gen. i mean queen decided to go after some random woman in the middle of his fight and that led to his loss. the beast pirates were all complete jobbers. ulti probably had the best showing.
Ulti was an absolute warrior.
Did not back down from an Emperor
and went head to head with Sun god Nika's Hocrux.
Plus I adored her personality, a stark contrast to the incredibly boring and nearly non character that was King. (waste of a character)
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You keep going back to that like its an absurd thing that needs mocking, but it wasn't a racist "he's black!" thing, but its completely legitimate when you are talking about a actually wholly different species with magic powers.
Zoro knew the guy's fire abilities were NOT from a devil fruit, but they were making him basically invincible. If it was just a mythical zoan or a logia then… attack with haki, problem solved. But it was a weird other power he couldn't immediately overcome.
Zoro had never seen a Lunarian before, so he didn't know how the fire and the healing worked or when to do his attacks.
It'd be the same as fighting a fishman and NOT being aware that they're 10x stronger underwater and able to manipulate water while still fighting them next to a large body of water. Or fighting a mink under a full moon and not knowing about their transformation. Or even fighting a fruit user and not knowing they're a fruit user, like when he slashed Buggy and then got sneak attacked.
When he fought Pica he had to figure out how the devil fruit worked... but if Pica had also been a fishman and was dragging water along with stone, Zoro would have needed to figure out what was what in order to counter it.
But now he knows how Lunarian fire works, if he ever fights another Lunarian he'll one-shot him.
Racist Zoro is one of the funniest accidental comedy beats in OP, though. Him trying to figure out King's race just took it to totally another level. He was like a cop figuring out if he should arrest or shoot, I dunno, Logic for wrong parking.
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Fact is, those who insisted on that were arguing that everything was going way too easily and smoothly and at some point something, anything had to happen to throw a wrench into our hero's works. First that the Big Mom pirates would arrive, then the tobi roppo would get up, then the all star awakenen, then kaido awaken… nope.
Meanwhile the heroes got second, third, fourth wind, free buffets, extremely convenient never mention before magic drugs, extremely conveniently timed nazi wolverine genes awakening, god mode unlocked through dying...
I agree with you that we're supposed to ask ourselves "how" and not "if", but at least we should have some time to allow that question to breath a little, instead of "I wonder how he'll recover form that turn page oh, nevermind, no issue then"But the majority of those plot devices were things that DID get set-up exhaustively (Tama) or were deliberately left in a state of uncertainty by Oda to be re-raised later (like Sanji's genetics: We never got any explicit confirmation that he wouldn't ever ever awaken those, just that he didn't yet). Just because people missed those (mostly) logically laid out clues and questions and went hunting for hints in Kabuki theatrical structures doesn't mean that the arc is any better or worse for it. It just means that forum posters and youtubers were wrong, again.
And if this raid was easy and tension free, then why would say, the Tobi roppo getting back up again (a theory that made 0 sense when I 1st heard it) make it more tense when we've seen them get their asses kicked once already? Would Jack transforming into a bigger mammoth make any real difference? And it's not like the Beast Pirates were particularly charismatic either (except Queen, I would read a miniseries about that fucker).
I just don't get this desperation to make Wano into an inferior grimdark re-tread of Marineford tbh.
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The only fight I thoroughly enjoyed from beginning to end was Robin vs Black Maria. All the others were hit or miss throughout.
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Racist Zoro is way too funny a meme to ever drop.
Up there with Buggy is the messiah memes. And jazz boner.
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I did like pretty much every strawhat fight besides whatever the fuck Nami got (and even then, Ulti is great! The character didn't disappoint, at least). Sanji coreography was kinda meh, though, but the character writing there did make up for it a lot. Idk, they really don't feel substantially different than an average strawhat fight. Not Oda's peak nor Oda's low, right there at the middle (again, not counting Nami or Usopp).
