Pudding was made fun of for her Third eye until she got her memory powers and manipulated everyone into forgetting she had it or forgetting that is was weird. Sanji was the only person who didn't make fun of her for it and need his memories changed and genuinely complimenting her. We will gain more information on this in the coming chapters I'm sure. Very rarely does Oda hide information like this to keep a surprise element but whenever he does he goes on to explain the significance in upcoming chapters.
Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones
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So Katakuri has the Normal CoO… Plot wise he can use it on things that arent important...
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I get that I'm being a little exaggerated - but when I say characters receive "dignity and respect" on the battlefield, I'm referring to how the narrative treats them, not how other characters necessarily respond to them. What I mean is that One Piece is a "battle shounen," where creative and exciting fight scenes are a cornerstone of the series. In a series like this, characters showing their conviction/personality/drive etc through battles is an important part of the story. Oda plays with this concept and sets these violent confrontations in a whole number of ways, but nevertheless characters battling each other is a staple. In a world with characters of this power & a series where fights are so central, it just seems like the female characters are placed on a lesser pedestal when they aren't allowed to be a part of that. Obviously there are other hugely important parts of the series & characters - such as character design, personality interactions & developments, plot threads, etc but its inarguable that these marquee end-of-arc battles are a very important part of the series' structure & appeal
Okay, but to me it's weird angle to look from. I don't think that putting a character on pedestal is done to make him more aspiring and role model in any way, because that's done for villains too. I'm pretty sure it's done for plot purposes, not for some hidden agenda to spread ideals.
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Pudding shows her true colors this chapter
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Out the top of my head:
Luffy vs Big Mom
Sanji vs Katakuri
Jinbe vs Smoothie
Rest of the alliance members vs rest of Big Mom's crewAlso Brook can take care of all the homies (save for Big Mom's) in an instant
CAN'T WAIT
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Photo link is broken
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@Daz:
Sigh. This was pretty much exactly what I feared would happen from a “Sanji in a forced marriage!” setup.
Apart from him not learning a damn thing and Oda recycling Viola, what baffles me is that Oda already had a perfectly valid foundation for a Pudding/Big Mom schishm, which was hinted at in the earlier flashback: Pudding doesn’t like being a piece on Big Moms chessboard, like Lola once was. But instead of building on that, we now get the completely new revelation that being bullied for her looks turned Pudding evil. Despite being in literally THE MOST INTENTIONALLY DIVERSE CREW ON THE PLANET, Pudding, who is Big Moms favourite, who showed off her eye to Big Mom no problem a few chapters ago, who has possibly the single most important (potential) ability in the crew, got bullied for her looks? At this point in the series a third eye is small potatoes in terms of design, and in this arc, of all things? Totland is a mashup of Willy Wonkas chocolate factory, Alice in wonderland, and some of the more out there Silly Symphonies, and it just happens that its most conventionally attractive resident is so insecure about her conventional attractiveness that Sanji can shatter her personality by paying her a superficial compliment? Despite her personality being pretty much pure sadism? She even says "Take a good look at the horrible sight of my third eye!!" Screw that.
Besides that whole unfortunate business, I can’t help but be disappointed that Puddings Evil Conspirator potential just got seemingly nullified. I can’t fault the manga for not adhering to my preferences, but as is, it looks like we’re ending up with Big Mom as scheming villain and Vinsmokes as hapless victims. I mean, If this is played completely straight, and I’m supposed to care that boring Reiju and her crap family gets saved from eeeevil Big Mom….I wont.
On it's own how much does this pudding reveal take away from the arc for you? Where was it befoore and if it goes like yoou think where will it end up. How could oda subvert your expectations again?
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How come so many seemingly 'bad' female antagonists become 'good' after interacting with a Straw Hat and breaking down in tears. Nami, Robin, Viola, Rebecca and Pudding from the top of my head.
Actually it seems like most female characters have a weak spot for the Straw Hats in general. Or maybe Oda just thinks that it's natural more female characters break down. I think that Pudding has a good backstory but loses a lot of impact due to the lack of build-up and the fact we've seen it so many times before.
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How come so many seemingly 'bad' female antagonists become 'good' after interacting with a Straw Hat and breaking down in tears. Nami, Robin, Viola, Rebecca and Pudding from the top of my head.
Actually it seems like most female characters have a weak spot for the Straw Hats in general. Or maybe Oda just thinks that it's natural more female characters break down. I think that Pudding has a good backstory but loses a lot of impact due to the lack of build-up and the fact we've seen it so many times before.
Rebecca was never bad
Chapter 437 Discussion after franky decides to join the Strawhats:
So who think Usopp is inside that duffelbag?
H x H Chimera Ant Arc / OP Manga Spoiler
Spoiler:
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@Long:
Rebecca was never bad
You could also argue Viola since in her case she was more held hostage.
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Dogtooth is still an idiotic translation of Katakuri.
Yes, I know the roots of the word in the specific type of violet that has potato-like roots.
It's still ridiculously overreaching.
So glad jaimini's box is this fast nowadays.
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O.K. now:
Luffy + Capone vs Big Mom
Sanji vs Katakuri
Jinbe vs Smoothie
Pedro vs Baron Tamago
Caesar vs Perospero
Brook vs Amande
Carrot vs Galette (although Carrot might probably be too strong for her)
Chopper vs Mont d'Or
Capone pirates we don't know about vs Big Mom pirates we don't know aboutCharacters I don't know who to match against: Judge, ichiji, Niji, Yonji, Smoothie, Vito, Pekoms, Gotti, Chiffon, Nami.
Notes:
- Nami can use Zeus' and Prometheus' powers to get rid of most weaklings fast.
- Brook can get rid of most homies (save for Big Mom's) instantly.
- Jinbe should be able to resist Smoothie's abilities by having a perfect control over his body water.
- Sanji specializes on CoO, just like Katakuri.
Victim of the corrupted Arlong Park staff.
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O.K. now:
Luffy + Capone vs Big Mom
Sanji vs Katakuri
Jinbe vs Smoothie
Pedro vs Baron Tamago
Caesar vs Perospero
Brook vs Amande
Carrot vs Galette (although Carrot might probably be too strong for her)
Chopper vs Mont d'Or
Capone pirates we don't know about vs Big Mom pirates we don't know aboutCharacters I don't know who to match against: Judge, ichiji, Niji, Yonji, Smoothie, Vito, Pekoms, Gotti, Chiffon, Nami.
Notes:
- Nami can use Zeus' and Prometheus' powers to get rid of most weaklings fast.
- Brook can get rid of most homies (save for Big Mom's) instantly.
- Jinbe should be able to resist Smoothie's abilities by having a perfect control over his body water.
- Sanji specializes on CoO, just like Katakuri.
If it took Luffy nearly a whole day and with Nami's help to beat Cracker, Sanji is not going to beat Katakuri.
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@S.C.:
If it took Luffy nearly a whole day and with Nami's help to beat Cracker, Sanji is not going to beat Katakuri.
That's just hype, amigo! Cracker has a Devil Fruit designed to stale forever. Once Luffy got near him, it was over.
Victim of the corrupted Arlong Park staff.
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That's just hype, amigo! Cracker has a Devil Fruit designed to stale forever. Once Luffy got near him, it was over.
Now if Sanji and Jinbei can team up on him, and the Vinsmokes on Smoothie, okay I can see that.
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@Daz:
Sigh. This was pretty much exactly what I feared would happen from a “Sanji in a forced marriage!” setup.
Apart from him not learning a damn thing and Oda recycling Viola, what baffles me is that Oda already had a perfectly valid foundation for a Pudding/Big Mom schishm, which was hinted at in the earlier flashback: Pudding doesn’t like being a piece on Big Moms chessboard, like Lola once was. But instead of building on that, we now get the completely new revelation that being bullied for her looks turned Pudding evil. Despite being in literally THE MOST INTENTIONALLY DIVERSE CREW ON THE PLANET, Pudding, who is Big Moms favourite, who showed off her eye to Big Mom no problem a few chapters ago, who has possibly the single most important (potential) ability in the crew, got bullied for her looks? At this point in the series a third eye is small potatoes in terms of design, and in this arc, of all things? Totland is a mashup of Willy Wonkas chocolate factory, Alice in wonderland, and some of the more out there Silly Symphonies, and it just happens that its most conventionally attractive resident is so insecure about her conventional attractiveness that Sanji can shatter her personality by paying her a superficial compliment? Despite her personality being pretty much pure sadism? She even says "Take a good look at the horrible sight of my third eye!!" Screw that.
Besides that whole unfortunate business, I can’t help but be disappointed that Puddings Evil Conspirator potential just got seemingly nullified. I can’t fault the manga for not adhering to my preferences, but as is, it looks like we’re ending up with Big Mom as scheming villain and Vinsmokes as hapless victims. I mean, If this is played completely straight, and I’m supposed to care that boring Reiju and her crap family gets saved from eeeevil Big Mom….I wont.
This. I groaned so many times reading this chapter when I saw this reveal. Sanji also being a dumbass and trying not to fall for Pudding's looks was extremely frustrating after seeing him at least trying to be serious when thinking about how to dodge the shot and how the plan will go down.
I did laugh for a good 5 minutes seeing the Luffy clones all burst through the cake and BM's horrified look.
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i'm sorry if people have already discussed this, but how did luffy and luffy clones make their way inside the cake from inside capone? any ideas?
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With big mom being grossed out by kid puddings eye, but not telling her to cover it just a few chapters ago, I definitely think some memory manipulation was done. My guess is that pudding changed big moms memories to make her like the 3rd eye, maybe even the 3rd eye power of reading poneglyphs is fake and was just done to secure her position as favorite daughter.
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i'm sorry if people have already discussed this, but how did luffy and luffy clones make their way inside the cake from inside capone? any ideas?
Probably Mirrors.
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i'm sorry if people have already discussed this, but how did luffy and luffy clones make their way inside the cake from inside capone? any ideas?
Probably Mirrors.
That's probably what those guys dressed as cooks last chapter were doing.
Waldorf: You know Statler, after watching the last one thousand episodes of One Piece, I think I've come to a conclusion.
Statler: No you haven't.
Both: DOHOHOHOHOHO!
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I would love Sanji to kick Katakuri's ass but it wont happen, How can he lose to Vergo but win against Katakuri? Unless he gets a huge power up.
Because like I've been saying since PH, he didn't lose against Vergo.
Both Sanji and Smoker could have won against him in different circumstances. -
i'm sorry if people have already discussed this, but how did luffy and luffy clones make their way inside the cake from inside capone? any ideas?
I was also confused about this.
They probably sneacked a mirror inside the cake.
So I guess it was part of these "preliminary preparations" that happened in the panel below?
http://readms.net/r/one_piece/861/4142/9
But why would they have to run that much this chapter if they had the opportunity to port inside the cake? It´s more likely the mirror was placed in the kitchen where the cake was baked, which was sealed off by Bege´s thugs last chapter, and they entered the stage from underneath the cake the same way the cake appeared?
We´ll most likely get a short explanation at the start of next chapter.
Anyway, I reread the chapter a couple more times and couldn´t help but laugh at Sanji´s ridiculous grimace :D
The waking up Luffy scene was golden, too. But the highlight was the shoot Sanji panel sequence from where BM gives the signal to Sanji´s cool move. -
Also, shouldn't we be discussing that we low-key saw Roger on the cover? That was awesome!
I was expecting theories that the crocodile in Big Mom's crew was the same that appears on the cover at Roger's ship lol :ninja: -
Probably Mirrors.
Actually, it seems like Luffy and Co didn't come out of the cake but rather smashed through it with their momentum from exiting Capone'a body. Capone was probably standing behind the cake at that point. Might be wrong though.
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I think this is another one we should file under the underestimating the SHs folder. So, Big Mom really thought Pudding or the Priest will fire at Sanji and he will fall down and die? Really now?
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@Lao:
Actually, it seems like Luffy and Co didn't come out of the cake but rather smashed through it with their momentum from exiting Capone'a body. Capone was probably standing behind the cake at that point. Might be wrong though.
There's a Mirror inside the cake probably.
Capone is still walking through the party.
What we see are luffy clones, it can be luffy and the other will come out of capone next chapter
"I'm simply an accident. Why take it all so seriously?"
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I'm not sure I liked that chapter. Maybe it's because I don't like Sanji's "lovecook" face. Or the fact that up until the last few pages everyone was just standing and marveling
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So when did Luffy become a master of Shadow Clone Jutsu?
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@Lao:
Actually, it seems like Luffy and Co didn't come out of the cake but rather smashed through it with their momentum from exiting Capone'a body. Capone was probably standing behind the cake at that point. Might be wrong though.
There's a Mirror inside the cake probably.
Capone is still walking through the party.
What we see are luffy clones, it can be luffy and the other will come out of capone next chapter
How about is a mirror inside Capone and they were running straight at it?
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O.K. now:
Luffy + Capone vs Big Mom
Sanji vs Katakuri
Jinbe vs Smoothie
Pedro vs Baron Tamago
Caesar vs Perospero
Brook vs Amande
Carrot vs Galette (although Carrot might probably be too strong for her)
Chopper vs Mont d'Or
Capone pirates we don't know about vs Big Mom pirates we don't know aboutCharacters I don't know who to match against: Judge, ichiji, Niji, Yonji, Smoothie, Vito, Pekoms, Gotti, Chiffon, Nami.
Notes:
- Nami can use Zeus' and Prometheus' powers to get rid of most weaklings fast.
- Brook can get rid of most homies (save for Big Mom's) instantly.
- Jinbe should be able to resist Smoothie's abilities by having a perfect control over his body water.
- Sanji specializes on CoO, just like Katakuri.
I don't think we'll have complete fights. Maybe some, it will end in a draw or something like that. Yonko crew is still too powerful to be annihilated. Same could be said for SH's
"I'm simply an accident. Why take it all so seriously?"
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Aww man Oda, you went and did the one thing I hoped you wouldn't do:getlost:Seriously, I loved diabolically evil sadistic Pudding and like any detestable villain, I wanted her to get her comeuppance. But even if she doesn't get fully redeemed and becomes a good person all of a sudden, it's pretty apparent that after we've witnessed her breaking down and crying that she won't be beaten up in a fight by anyone anytime soon. It just wouldn't be fun anymore now. Other stuff was great, especially Sanji dodging the jellybean (that sounds like some sort of euphemism for something, lol) and the last page with a dozen Luffys jumping out of the wedding cake (of course he was planning on jumping out of the cake, what else :D).
I even think Pudding's backstory makes sense and isn't that crappy and I kinda like Sanjis chivalry saving him, because I'm like one of the 5 people on this forum who don't hate his basic character trait. But it's just not satisfying at all to me. This isn't comparable to Baby 5 or Viola to me. Both were mere henchwomen. But Pudding has been such a huge bitch - I mean, up to like 5 minutes ago, she gleefully smiled at the thought of shooting one of the main characters in the head - that I actively wanted her to be treated as the despicable person she is. There is no way that she won't make a heel-face turn and start helping the Strawhats soon after this. I can't remember the last time I've been this disappointed by an OP chapter. Sigh..
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I don't think we'll have complete fights. Maybe some, it will end in a draw or something like that. Yonko crew is still too powerful to be annihilated. Same could be said for SH's
too soon to fight a yonkou. I think he'll have to in two or three arcs but right now. We finally got the "full" display of a yonkou's crew's powers (the war i think we only got a glimpse). Now luffy knows what he is up against in order to face kaidou
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Loved sanji in this chapter, I like how pudding was incapacitated by kindness but I hope she doesnt just turn good and her switch isnt like viola who was good all along or robin/nami who merely had to bad things to preserve themselves have a chance to accomplish their dream. However I have faith oda will go into this deeper.
As I said earlier there are is a parallel to gin in that pudding is ordered to do the deed but sanji's kindness stuns her and makes her hesistate. We also see how big mom's control over every part of her children but her neglect at raising them has backfired here. I dont see this as a viola/baby5 2.0 thing because pudding was bad and not because of a quirk, whereas viola was hiding something clearly and not even a villain for what 3-4 chapters. While the explanation might have been a little rushed perhaps looking at earlier chapters will expose that oda had it in the background all along.
Also the "Jinbe is boring" crowd took a hit when he started slapping him and banging him on the floor lol. And I dont even have to say Sanji's Dodging was fan-freaking-tastic.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Aww man Oda, you went and did the one thing I hoped you wouldn't do:getlost:Seriously, I loved diabolically evil sadistic Pudding and like any detestable villain, I wanted her to get her comeuppance. But even if she doesn't get fully redeemed and becomes a good person all of a sudden, it's pretty apparent that after we've witnessed her breaking down and crying that she won't be beaten up in a fight by anyone anytime soon. It just wouldn't be fun anymore now. Other stuff was great, especially Sanji dodging the jellybean (that sounds like some sort of euphemism for something, lol) and the last page with a dozen Luffys jumping out of the wedding cake (of course he was planning on jumping out of the cake, what else :D).
I even think Pudding's backstory makes sense and isn't that crappy and I kinda like Sanjis chivalry saving him, because I'm like one of the 5 people on this forum who don't hate his basic character trait. But it's just not satisfying at all to me. This isn't comparable to Baby 5 or Viola to me. Both were mere henchwomen. But Pudding has been such a huge bitch - I mean, up to like 5 minutes ago, she gleefully smiled at the thought of shooting one of the main characters in the head - that I actively wanted her to be treated as the despicable person she is. There is no way that she won't make a heel-face turn and start helping the Strawhats soon after this. I can't remember the last time I've been this disappointed by an OP chapter. Sigh..
Who knows I hope the pudding flip will be more gradual or that she struggles more with this idea aka snapping back into it or fighting nami. I think this isnt the last time oda will surprise us, or even with pudding. Her turning face all of a sudden would be bad but I have faith oda will treat this more nuanced. Like how gin struggled with fighting sanji
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How about is a mirror inside Capone and they were running straight at it?
Yeah, there's a chance of that too.
I was just pointing out that what we see come out of the cake not necessarily are the straw hats.
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O.K. now:
Luffy + Capone vs Big Mom
Sanji vs Katakuri
Jinbe vs Smoothie
Pedro vs Baron Tamago
Caesar vs Perospero
Brook vs Amande
Carrot vs Galette (although Carrot might probably be too strong for her)
Chopper vs Mont d'Or
Capone pirates we don't know about vs Big Mom pirates we don't know aboutCharacters I don't know who to match against: Judge, ichiji, Niji, Yonji, Smoothie, Vito, Pekoms, Gotti, Chiffon, Nami.
Notes:
- Nami can use Zeus' and Prometheus' powers to get rid of most weaklings fast.
- Brook can get rid of most homies (save for Big Mom's) instantly.
- Jinbe should be able to resist Smoothie's abilities by having a perfect control over his body water.
- Sanji specializes on CoO, just like Katakuri.
It's a smash and grab situation. No one is beating up anyone.
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Check out my channel!! "Yeah I'm Awesome like that!!!"
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There is something in Katakuri that makes me re-read this chapter for the fifth time.
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@Long:
Because luffy was in it, he sensed someone was to ruin it
It would be true if Bege aside of noting his ability to watch the future, it also could sense unseen individuals.
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There is something in Katakuri that makes me re-read this chapter for the fifth time.
Same idk why but seeing a yonkou first mate is so exciting
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@.access:
The clones will probably be perfect to confuse him. He probably needs to focus on one specific target to read that person's future, but with everyone looking the same it will be hard to keep track of who he already "read" and who he didn't.
With dozens if not hundreds of guests and staff, a cloud of Luffys, and a rain of cake and frosting, I've got to feel Katakuri's prescience will have the worst fog of war possible. There's just too much going on.
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Big Mom telling Pudding to cover her third eye makes perfect sense. Keep in mind that her children are tools first and foremost, and the tool called Pudding has the job of a femme fatal with acting / memory altering skills.
BM might have no personal issues with the eye, but definitely issues with her children not playing their part in the family. "That third eye looks gross, cover it up" might just be a manipulative "friendly" advice.Best comment regarding Pudding.
When you realize that Pudding's Bigmom's daughter, then you inmediately go to think that Mom fucked with a third-eye person… and if she fucked it, then she automatically doesn't give a shit about looks.
For that, this comment is the most closely to the truth xD
ABout don't giving a shit, next chapter i want my Luffy & Linlin's Haoshoku clash!!
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There is something in Katakuri that makes me re-read this chapter for the fifth time.
Its those damned eyelashes, dude has to be badass/handsome like a Jojo character lol
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@Shobu:
Best comment regarding Pudding.
When you realize that Pudding's Bigmom's daughter, then you inmediately go to think that Mom fucked with a third-eye person… and if she fucked it, then she automatically doesn't give a shit about looks.
For that, this comment is the most closely to the truth xD
ABout don't giving a shit, next chapter i want my Luffy & Linlin's Haoshoku clash!!
The thing with looks was apparent before, Pound isnt a model or anything, she's getting different benefits out of the marriages than looks
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Yeah, there's a chance of that too.
I was just pointing out that what we see come out of the cake not necessarily are the straw hats.
I think mirror in bege connecting to mirror capone's men put in and they had to running start to get the speed to fly out of the cake
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I still confused on one point did Han shoot first or did the minister shoot first?
It looked like he shot his gun in the air when the bean hit him.
Pretty sure Sanji won't want to have anything to do with Pudding after this, seeing as how she WAS part of a plot to kill him, his family, and his crew. He's that kind of guy. No kiss, no marriage. Digging on the Climatact = mirage Luffy illusion though!
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Speaking of climatacts, I just remembered Nami still has to uses it's new extension upgrades in a meaningful way. All she's done with it so far is sucker-punch Brulee, and I really hope that isn't all we see of it.
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people tormented pudding for having a third eyeball? okay…sure whatever.
kinda getting tired of whole cake island.
hopefully the next few chapters will have some fun fights and we can move on to wano or something else.
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It's a smash and grab situation. No one is beating up anyone.
They're planning to kill Big Mom. If you don't think they'll achieve it O.K. but my opinion is they will and if I'm (or you're) wrong only time will say.
Victim of the corrupted Arlong Park staff.
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They're planning to kill Big Mom. If you don't think they'll achieve it O.K. but my opinion is they will and if I'm (or you're) wrong only time will say.
Big Mom will not be beaten by half of SHs and a bunch of scraps Luffy put together on the island while the other Yonkou requires the full crew, 1 or 2 worst generation, a mink nation, a commander from a deceased Yonkou. That doesn't make any sense.
Even Mingo required much more than that.
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Big Mom probably can't bring Katakuri to a large-scale battle. You saw what happened to Cody once he activated observation, Katakuri would probably descend to insanity
Spoiler:
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@Kaido:
Big Mom probably can't bring Katakuri to a large-scale battle. You saw what happened to Cody once he activated observation, Katakuri would probably descend to insanity
I think that happened to Cody for being a first-timer.
Nothing exists; even if something exists, nothing can be known about it. Even if something can be known about it,
