Some of you guys hated Marineford? Damn, I thought that was easily the best arc in One Piece.
Chapter 854: What Am I Doing
-
-
@Count:
I always love it when One Piece breaks from its normal story conventions. Just not when it solely decides to focus on action, and just a bunch of brief teases without any engaging results or suspense outside of Akainu chasing Luffy and Blackbeard in general. At least Enies Lobby had compelling payoff, humor, emotional moments, and feats that actually matter like Usopp sniping Spandam rather than just some generic giant slash or attack that everybody gawks at. There was a bit of perspective here and there like with Doffy's speech, but the only baggage I legitimately felt towards any of the fights in Marineford were the Coby scenes (like getting knocked out in one punch by Luffy and regretting how weak he still was in comparison, as well as begging Akainu to stop fighting due to all of the senseless casualties being produced after both Ace and Newgate died). As well as Garp's fight with Luffy. Everybody else's fights just looked pretentiously cool, stagnant, and repetitive for the sake of the war ambiance without any real depth or payoff. And that's because there's no way you can get either of those things at this point of the story rather than the Final War, where we can actually see some of these big names get taken down after getting to properly know them and their fighting potential/limitations. None of the fights before Ace's death give me more of an impression than "Oh, that's cool to see" because there's nothing that deep or cathartic about them at all, which is why One Piece's fights are hook us in so much compared other flawed action-junky shonen.
And I'm also not the biggest fan of Zou (not that it's a bad arc AT ALL, especially during the "We Lied to Protect Raizou" reveal) because it has the exact opposite problem of only featuring exposition and flashbacks meant to build-up future arcs. Even in terms of locale immersion, which Oda is typically superb at, Zou as an island loses it luster after the first five minutes of seeing an awesome giant elephant walking at sea due to just being forest-y ruins with Namek trees. And I find the way the Road Poneglyphs were introduced out of nowhere with the Straw Hats just happening to find the first one when Zou was originally just supposed to be a quick pit stop still feels like awkward narrative pacing to me.
If there were unconventional arcs that had the perfect balance of satisfying suspense, worldbuilding, character interaction, fighting, twists, internal/ideological conflict, and inspirational themes, they're Jaya, Sabaody Archipelago, and Impel Down.
I see where you come from. While other series' battle arcs tend to devolve into characterization/inner monologues with a dash of battle, Marineford could be considered to be the opposite problem with style over substance. (Though I would argue that Crocodile's and Moriah's battle scenes were impactful, if more in hindsight with what happened to them afterwards and with more of Crocodile's past revealed through SBS). Never was too bothered by it though since I was fine with Luffy's quest being the sole real focus of the arc, with a bit of the spotlight going to Whitebeard as well. Others I was good enough knowing that the more or less teasy scenes we got with them were intentional and would pave the way to set up their own bigger roles in the New World, like Doflamingo for example. But yeah, what makes the arc good for you is all subjective anyways.
-
@The:
I'll agree to that. I don't think Sanji's gonna show up at the book prison since only charred remains of books (and maybe guards) is there. At that point, it would turn into a wild goose chase. Maybe while Sanji is on his way to Luffy, he'll meet up with Bropper and co. and Curly Brows will give the location of his captain's "promised place".
Feel free to correct me, but wasn't Sanji's last known information of the crew given by eggplant guy? So maybe he thinks Luffy is still captured.
-
@Kaido:
I see where you come from. While other series' battle arcs tend to devolve into characterization/inner monologues with a dash of battle, Marineford could be considered to be the opposite problem with style over substance. (Though I would argue that Crocodile's and Moriah's battle scenes were impactful, if more in hindsight with what happened to them afterwards and with more of Crocodile's past revealed through SBS). Never was too bothered by it though since I was fine with Luffy's quest being the sole real focus of the arc, with a bit of the spotlight going to Whitebeard as well. Others I was good enough knowing that the more or less teasy scenes we got with them were intentional and would pave the way to set up their own bigger roles in the New World, like Doflamingo for example. But yeah, what makes the arc good for you is all subjective anyways.
I can somewhat agree on Crocodile and Moria. And it's not like I thought the teasers were bad on their own. I just didn't care for how there were pretty much ONLY teases lol. An arc can't be showcased solely to build up future events than simultaneously promoting something truly enthralling in the present. But like you said, that's just me.
-
@Count:
If that was the case, then Oda should have had her doubt Sanji's facade (which is what Luffy did) or had a quick Arlong Park flashback panel or two (Jimbei even referenced how he and Luffy first met in a prison when Luffy and Nami got rescued from the book). But right after shedding a few tears at the end of Chapter 844, she just completely gets over Sanji while Luffy is the only one to be obsessed with him. Not that Nami shouldn't disagree with how Luffy executes his feelings, but it's disappointing to not see more from Nami when even Brook, the latest Straw Hat, can give an epic speech. But all is redeemed if Nami somehow saves Sanji at the wedding like he did for her at Thriller Bark.
The difference is that Luffy doesn't hold Sanji accountable for his actions, Nami does. She would prefer if Sanji come back but she isn't about to let everything slide just because Sanji is in tight spot. After everything they faced she expected better from Sanji even if he was leaving.
That's too bad.
I tend to consider MarineFord as the one truly bad arc of one piece and Blackbeard as the only badly construct character.
That's very true. But it doesn't change how moving it was to see Chopper put his life on the line to save his adoptive father. I don't advocate what Hililuk did, but I get the mindset behind it and still get invested in it. I suppose it's a guilty pleasure.
As I say I'm fine with Chopper. I just find the doctor to be a truly awful individual.
Still makes for one very emotion churning death for me in the context of that scene alone.
The flashback might work to show me why I should enjoy everyone but epicly failed for the quack doctor.
I really don't want to talk about Marineford lol. But basically, Ace was a prideful idiot (not that it was out-of-character for him to do what he did) and it was too generically action-heavy without any payoff. Only teases, which is expected because it's not the final saga of the series, where we can expect those battles to get proper conclusions. The reasons why it's dislikable besides Ace are similar to why Enies Lobby gets criticized (specifically after Robin declares she wants to live, where the fights become the sole focus for dozens of consecutive chapters). It's still better paced than Dressrosa's third act due to Water 7 supporting it, but still.
As far as I am concern Marineford failed at pretty much every level and Oda letting his worst instincts take over. The only that comes out positively are those that hardly appeared before because they needed a little more exposition.
-The arc is poor version of the Ennias Lobby where Oda suddenly transform Ace into Robin without understanding what it worked for one but not for the orders. Which mainly is that Robin had been alone all her life and the strawhats have been the first to accept her while Ace have had to test the bonds with his crew and Whithebeard already. So is realization that his crew actually care for him at the last moment is a weird one. And Ace was never presented as depressive as this.
- The whole point of Ace's death is that Luffy failed. But rather than have Ace die on the stand and proving Luffy failure but rather than that we have an elaborate section where Luffy gets to free him and they are free to get to the boat proving that actually Luffy could free him.
-Oda once again prove his need to have his cake and eat it with the moment he choose to let Ace dies. Like usual he tries to cram 20 message in one and as a result it just fails. Ace "defending" Whitebeard is problematic since it only waste Whitebeard sacrifice and makes him Marty Mcfly and the sacrifice he is supposedly doing for Luffy lose his nobility when it feels that it was caused by his own stupidity. So the whole Ace died because Luffy was to weak ring hollow
-The arc start with the most fanfiction moment of all the manga. Ace was Roger son and the reason it makes since is because Rouge kept him for 20 years.
-Whitebeard who never gave a fuck about one piece gets his last moment hijack by a Roger moment because of some silly need for paralelism when it should be about his family.
-Oda feels the need for Whitebeard to have known it was a bad idea to chase Blackbeard rather than simply be part of his own arrogance. Of course it saved by Whitebeard being a great dad and not having a real family rather than fall into that stupid logic Zoro brings at the end of water seven. But it is still a flaw that Oda erase just to make Whitebeard more "perfect".
-Oda is so afraid to commit to what the peak of his manga can do that he needs to have Whithebeard stabbed in order to have a way out. If he does enough just say it didn't affect him much, if he doesn't do enough just say he was sick and got stabbed.
-It ends with the villain basically screaming "muhaha I'm a villain, look at all the destruction I do for no reason and I am shitting on the rules of the manga because I'm the big bad muhaha" making the most painfuly cliché of a villain that you could ever see.
-Ace/Luffy's Flashback makes the thing retroactively worst.
-Crocodile gets a strange portrayal in all that.
-Whitebeard is probably the only one that gets a decent feel of competence in the side of the pirate.
And there's probably more. That arc is utter garbage and I will always say so. It somewhat help me appreciate Aokiji and do nice for Jimbei but that's about it. Supposedly it's the arc that helped one piece become even more popular and prompt many to start it. And funny enough I probably started reading it at that time(I didn't know what was happening I just picked it because I had finished Nekomajin on onemanga and didn't feel like reading Naruto). But by god do I freaking hate that arc with passion(same with Blackbeard). People will pretend "you just don't like that Ace died". But I his death isn't the problem, the shitty execution is. Kill him on the freaking stand.
Nothing good came out of that thing that couldn't be done elsewhere than in that excuse of an arc and stand by that.
- The whole point of Ace's death is that Luffy failed. But rather than have Ace die on the stand and proving Luffy failure but rather than that we have an elaborate section where Luffy gets to free him and they are free to get to the boat proving that actually Luffy could free him.
-
@Tamiel:
Feel free to correct me, but wasn't Sanji's last known information of the crew given by eggplant guy? So maybe he thinks Luffy is still captured.
You're not mistaken.
! But like you said, Sanji and Luffy's bond is strong. So he might take his captain's words to heart and go the meetup spot.
! -
It would be fun if the Strawhats take Pudding hostage into the mirror world. They make Big Mom think she has pulled a Lola. Or just demand stuff, Brooke just found out Pudding other secret and her importance if bones somehow manages to communicate with the rest, they could use it to their advantage. The only problem if they make her pull a Lola is that she might tag along with the crew. Would that incite the passion for those cheering for Pudding to be the next crewmember?
That's why I prefer they take only the cake.
-
So you find story craftsmanship to be negative?
Depends on what you build.
This is not like DragonBall where Toriyama was just making stuff up as he went, so you have the old tale of the legendary super saiyan one arc and the next arc opens literally with "Goku is not the only super saiyan".
Planning something doesn't mean it was good.
Blackbeard has two devil fruits because he his the final villain. Oda made the sure the audience knew no one could eat two devil fruits' and survive because he wanted everybody, characters and readers, to shit their pants at the same time when that moment happened.
1- The rules being broken for an important villain towards the end is a stupid convention often criticized in other mangas. And it is is also bad in this particular case.
2-Blackbeard already is D, Already has more luck than anyone and had just included in his crew the most dangerous individual in the world while wielding the supposedly most powerful fruit of this world. He was already both made special and dangerous.The destruction that followed served to help the character escape the war and to confirm to everyone, reader and characters, that yes, Blackbeard has two devil fruits, no one knows how and it's really terrifying.
He wasn't trying to escape the battle. He was just practicing gratuitous violence as usual.
And don't compare what Hiruluk did to letting your kid stab your heart as euthanasia.
It wasn't even for euthanasia. He just thought the kid was to cute and it would be a shame to stop him from stabbing his parent. What are parents good for if they don't indulge their progeny regardless of consequences.
Hiruluk ate the soup so that Chopper's effort wouldn't have been in vain.
Indeed. It just had the opposite effect of what a child would want for his dad or a doctor for his patient.
Chopper broke himself over to try and save Hiruluk and when he saw that, he couldn't say "Your effort meant nothing" so he ate the damn soup and made sure to die of some other reason that's not his illness. He could have said right away "Well, you done goofed Chopper. The skull and cross bones actually means death and that would only kill me faster" but that would have broken a child's heart and dreams right there.
I'm sure telling Chopper that he loved his effortto save him but he needs to become better before he can cure something like that would have been better than letting him poison someone. But then again he consider people as subject for his experiments.
He could have pretended to eat the soup and died from the illness later.
And now you make me realize that he is even more awful than I thought. He could indeed have pretend.
But he choose to eat, so now Chopper did the absolute best thing he could have done and the blame was entirely on the quack doctor that choose to die when he was already cured. And Chopper would get mad and would let go of him a bit and would try to find a better family.
The kid wanted to be a doctor not zookeeper. If even a quack doctor knows what the sign mean there's no way Chopper wouldn't.
Hiruluk was a pirate and did what he damn pleased, without much though to anything besides the imediate future, but he loved his kid with all he had.
He was a thief.
This is a series about pirates, never in the history of the world has "pirate" meant a good thing.
Again the quack doctor was not a pirate.
Plus Zeff, Fisher Tiger, Shanks or Whitebeard are already much betterPirate role models are never going to end up well. They are not meant to be good or perfect, only loving.
-
Regarding Hiluluk, I am not of the impression that his various actions reflected less of him as a character and as a role model for Chopper. In series such as One Piece, where there is no clearly defined morality being promoted, we often judge characters based on how compelling their actions and reasons are. While it's often good to include various attributes that most of the readership considers "good", like, say, the Straw Hats' devotion to their friends, several fan-favorite "antiheroes" manage to break this trend, like Light Yagami for example. Hiluluk did many things that were dumb, and could have had disastrous consequences on others, but that's not really the point. The point is that, despite his character flaws, he gave Chopper a place to call home for the first time in his entire life and gave him a reason to keep on living even after he himself died. That is what made his character so compelling.
I like Chopper's flashback fine, but it's not one of my favorites since it never really stood out that much to me.
-
Depends on what you build.
Planning something doesn't mean it was good.
1- The rules being broken for an important villain towards the end is a stupid convention often criticized in other mangas. And it is is also bad in this particular case.
2-Blackbeard already is D, Already has more luck than anyone and had just included in his crew the most dangerous individual in the world while wielding the supposedly most powerful fruit of this world. He was already both made special and dangerous.He wasn't trying to escape the battle. He was just practicing gratuitous violence as usual.
It wasn't even for euthanasia. He just thought the kid was to cute and it would be a shame to stop him from stabbing his parent. What are parents good for if they don't indulge their progeny regardless of consequences.
Indeed. It just had the opposite effect of what a child would want for his dad or a doctor for his patient.
I'm sure telling Chopper that he loved his effortto save him but he needs to become better before he can cure something like that would have been better than letting him poison someone. But then again he consider people as subject for his experiments.
And now you make me realize that he is even more awful than I thought. He could indeed have pretend.
The kid wanted to be a doctor not zookeeper. If even a quack doctor knows what the sign mean there's no way Chopper wouldn't.
He was a thief.
Again the quack doctor was not a pirate.
Plus Zeff, Fisher Tiger, Shanks or Whitebeard are already much betterYes, planning doesn't make things good just because they're planned but it helps alot, like in this case.
It's not the end of the series, it's right smack in the middle. I think it can be considered a fair warning.
This is nothing like Naruto where a couple of months before the series ends it turns out that the big bad villain wasn't the figure being built for years but a god no one had ever heard about before.
And the fact that someone is able to handle two devil fruits also has direct connection to how devil fruits work.And Blackbeard is THE final villain, not just any major villain. Everything about him needs to be way beyond special and dangerous. It's gotta make people say "Krieg was bad but Blackbeard was worst", "Crocodile was bad but he had nothing on Blackbeard". You can replace Krieg and Crocodile for any villain in the series.
Hiluluk taught Chopper that Skull and Bones meant "Life", "Hope", "Dreams", all good stuff. Since he was the only person who talked to Chopper, Chopper only knew what Hiluluk told him.
Hiluluk ate the soup as consequence to his actions, he was not a good doctor or professor, so he set Chopper towards failure despite his best intentions. Again, he was clearly someone who thought about the imediate future, that's a flaw. Flaws get you killed alot of times.And according to the world of OP, anyone who raises a black flag has made themselves a pirate, he had a black flag with a skull and crossbones so he was a pirate.
Besides, it seems that the japanese word for pirate -kaizoku- means sea thief, it's all the same. The point is that he's a criminal.And I'm not trying to convince you that Hiluluk was a good guy but I think you're only focusing on the actions of the character and not his intentions.
Hiluluk was the ultimate dreamer and the lowst form executioner. Everything he wanted was to make good things but every thing he did ended up on the other side of the spectrum.You don't need think that he was an effective role model or even that he was smart but he was a good parent because all that he did was because he thought it would help Chopper.
You don't have to be friends with him to apreciate the character or the story. Stories are meant to make you feel and think, so if a character got to you that much (either to the positive or negative side) you should consider more as a positive experience and try to understand all sides of it, it will help you understand yourself.@Kaido:
Regarding Hiluluk, I am not of the impression that his various actions reflected less of him as a character and as a role model for Chopper. In series such as One Piece, where there is no clearly defined morality being promoted, we often judge characters based on how compelling their actions and reasons are. While it's often good to include various attributes that most of the readership considers "good", like, say, the Straw Hats' devotion to their friends, several fan-favorite "antiheroes" manage to break this trend, like Light Yagami for example. Hiluluk did many things that were dumb, and could have had disastrous consequences on others, but that's not really the point. The point is that, despite his character flaws, he gave Chopper a place to call home for the first time in his entire life and gave him a reason to keep on living even after he himself died. That is what made his character so compelling.
I like Chopper's flashback fine, but it's not one of my favorites since it never really stood out that much to me.
Great post, had to quote it for truth.
-
@Count:
If that was the case, then Oda should have had her doubt Sanji's facade (which is what Luffy did) or had a quick Arlong Park flashback panel or two (Jimbei even referenced how he and Luffy first met in a prison when Luffy and Nami got rescued from the book). But right after shedding a few tears at the end of Chapter 844, she just completely gets over Sanji while Luffy is the only one to be obsessed with him. Not that Nami shouldn't disagree with how Luffy executes his feelings, but it's disappointing to not see more from Nami when even Brook, the latest Straw Hat, can give an epic speech. But all is redeemed if Nami somehow saves Sanji at the wedding like he did for her at Thriller Bark.
That's too bad.
That's very true. But it doesn't change how moving it was to see Chopper put his life on the line to save his adoptive father. I don't advocate what Hililuk did, but I get the mindset behind it and still get invested in it. I suppose it's a guilty pleasure.
Still makes for one very emotion churning death for me in the context of that scene alone.
Um, I never called her a master manipulator lol. In fact, my definition of her character was exactly the former. Just add kooky businesswoman with ethically grey principles to it. If anything, NOW she's a master manipulator with how deceitful she's acting.
Anyways, I'm still cool with Big Mom. It's a disappointing twist, but not really out-of-character that much at all. I just wish Oda kept up the execution from before the Pudding reveal with how charismatically unique it was. And that's one major reason why I don't think the Straw Hats will (or even can) beat her to survive or will escape during the wedding.
I really don't want to talk about Marineford lol. But basically, Ace was a prideful idiot (not that it was out-of-character for him to do what he did) and it was too generically action-heavy without any payoff. Only teases, which is expected because it's not the final saga of the series, where we can expect those battles to get proper conclusions. The reasons why it's dislikable besides Ace are similar to why Enies Lobby gets criticized (specifically after Robin declares she wants to live, where the fights become the sole focus for dozens of consecutive chapters). It's still better paced than Dressrosa's third act due to Water 7 supporting it, but still.
wait you dont like Enies Lobby either, how could you!!!!
No but for a real here's a question I have
These arcs where they have a relatively "3rd part" fighting stage
Alabasta
Skypiea
Ennies lobby
Thriller Bark
Marineford
fishman island
punk hazard
dressrosaCould you rate how well paced each was?
-
Yes, planning doesn't make things good just because they're planned but it helps alot, like in this case.
Not really in this case sadly.
It's not the end of the series, it's right smack in the middle. I think it can be considered a fair warning.
This is nothing like Naruto where a couple of months before the series ends it turns out that the big bad villain wasn't the figure being built for years but a god no one had ever heard about before.And the fact that someone is able to handle two devil fruits also has direct connection to how devil fruits work.You seem to have switch the debate from how Oda could have the reader interested other ways to him being the final villain. Even if he is giving him 2 devil fruits was not necessary. He had just put on his crew the most dangerous criminal to history and was a D.
And Blackbeard is THE final villain, not just any major villain. Everything about him needs to be way beyond special and dangerous. It's gotta make people say "Krieg was bad but Blackbeard was worst", "Crocodile was bad but he had nothing on Blackbeard". You can replace Krieg and Crocodile for any villain in the series.
Not the debate
Hiluluk taught Chopper that Skull and Bones meant "Life", "Hope", "Dreams", all good stuff. Since he was the only person who talked to Chopper, Chopper only knew what Hiluluk told him.
Sure he told him pirates are cool.
Hiluluk ate the soup as consequence to his actions, he was not a good doctor or professor, so he set Chopper towards failure despite his best intentions. Again, he was clearly someone who thought about the imediate future, that's a flaw. Flaws get you killed a lot of times.
Flaws also makes you a shitty chracter sometimes.
And according to the world of OP, anyone who raises a black flag has made themselves a pirate, he had a black flag with a skull and crossbones so he was a pirate.
Besides, it seems that the japanese word for pirate -kaizoku- means sea thief, it's all the same. The point is that he's a criminal.Sure. And we have seen better role model criminals.
And I'm not trying to convince you that Hiluluk was a good guy but I think you're only focusing on the actions of the character and not his intentions.
And you give zero interest to his actions. As I say I wouldn't give damn about how awful he was if one of his last action wasn't letting his son that want to become a doctor poison him.
Hiluluk was the ultimate dreamer and the lowest form executioner. Everything he wanted was to make good things but every thing he did ended up on the other side of the spectrum.
Letting Chopper poison him was a conscious choice.
You don't need think that he was an effective role model or even that he was smart but he was a good parent because all that he did was because he thought it would help Chopper.
He had good intentions but same can be said of the road to hell. He was still shitty. Thankfully he didn't manage to traumatize chopper.
You don't have to be friends with him to appreciate the character or the story. Stories are meant to make you feel and think, so if a character got to you that much (either to the positive or negative side) you should consider more as a positive experience and try to understand all sides of it, it will help you understand yourself.
I won't congratulate Oda for making such an awful character and trying to pass him as a positive one.
-
@Long:
wait you dont like Enies Lobby either, how could you!!!!
No but for a real here's a question I have
These arcs where they have a relatively "3rd part" fighting stage
Alabasta
Skypiea
Ennies lobby
Thriller Bark
Marineford
fishman island
punk hazard
dressrosaCould you rate how well paced each was?
Eh. I would prefer to save that for when I feel like re-reading the manga around the summer. It's hard to gauge them off the top of my head with fair objectivity since I know I don't remember the pacing of the battles in relation to the whole arc as well as I would like. But I can say for sure that the only ones with obvious flaws that put them at the bottom are Marineford and Dressrosa. And I definitely appreciated Skypiea and Thriller Bark's unorthodox approach of spreading out battles than showcasing them in a consecutive marathon (not that this automatically places them at the top).
-
Will Bobbin follow Sanji? Sanji fights him while his captain eats? That be funny. Bite / Kick.
-
Boring bland running away, Big Mom's hype status non existent; Jinbei, Shrimp of the sea escaped unharmed, the incompetence of Big Mom's people and….Sanji's lame struggle: "I love him, I love him not...."
-
whole arc is fast except sanji which makes it look wierd
-
Anyone seeing the Red/Purple wedding GoT references all throughout the chapters? I certainly am.
-
I just want to say, Brook sure have some bone !!!
can't wait for the "Red Wedding" to plunge into chaos.
ps.
i want a Brook doll ?!, key chain ? LOL.
-
Anyone seeing the Red/Purple wedding GoT references all throughout the chapters? I certainly am.
Nope, you must be the first one to think of it.
-
They talk so much on how BM crew is good at gathering information and they struggle to get accurate info of things happening on their own island. Shame.
The Luffy part is complete BS, but the Chopper/tree dude part makes perfect sense.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
gomu gomu no yari back those days luffy had to be much more creative
Thanks.
My wish would be difficult to make it happen xD
-
For the reunion i hope it will be only luffy and sanji. I imagine him saying something like : "i’m vinsmoke sanji the cook of the future pirate king"
-
Not really in this case sadly.
You seem to have switch the debate from how Oda could have the reader interested other ways to him being the final villain. Even if he is giving him 2 devil fruits was not necessary. He had just put on his crew the most dangerous criminal to history and was a D.
Not the debate
Sure he told him pirates are cool.
Flaws also makes you a shitty chracter sometimes.
Sure. And we have seen better role model criminals.
And you give zero interest to his actions. As I say I wouldn't give damn about how awful he was if one of his last action wasn't letting his son that want to become a doctor poison him.
Letting Chopper poison him was a conscious choice.
He had good intentions but same can be said of the road to hell. He was still shitty. Thankfully he didn't manage to traumatize chopper.
I won't congratulate Oda for making such an awful character and trying to pass him as a positive one.
Regarding Blackbeard, he's been following the same path ever since we heard about him.
Every time he shows up he seems to get more terrifying. He either looks more powerfull or more evil, because he's the final villain that Oda has been building for years.I think you're underestimating how much Oda wants him to be the worst of the worst of the worst.
Regarding Hiluluk, I'm not trying to change your opinion of him as a (fictional) person, all that you've said about him is true.
Doctorine was in the long run a much better mentor and role model, not even a question. But Hiluluk was a representation of what Oda always does when he talks about family, love above all.You think Hiluluk was absolutly dumb (I agree) and that his actions were beyond stupid and it's just by pure luck that they didn't hurt Chopper more (I mostly agree too) just like Doctorine, and she still she some tears because she knew what his intentions were. It was an absolut failure but all that moved him was love and care.
If you don't see the sad beauty in it now, don't forget the story. Keep seeing more of the world, maybe one day you'll see it. -
I'm interested in how Pudding can decipher Polynegliffs.
-
I'm interested in how Pudding can decipher Polynegliffs.
I strongly believe that's just Linlin's assumption, usually people who are not the Gorosei, CD's and can't read poneghlyps are plain clueless about them.
-
I strongly believe that's just Linlin's assumption, usually people who are not the Gorosei, CD's and can't read poneghlyps are plain clueless about them.
What a coincidence!
I strongly believe that, when talking about Poneglyphs, Oda started drawing fillers since Alabasta and to refer the Void Century, there's an old man in Raftel waiting with a 800 years old wanted poster with the story in three lines and a patch saying Pirate King for the first bastard in stepping on the island.
-
I strongly believe that's just Linlin's assumption, usually people who are not the Gorosei, CD's and can't read poneghlyps are plain clueless about them.
It's more likely there's been a case of some three eyes managing to read a PG. Or there was a hunt for three eyes for a while, from WG side and the underworld discovered why. Or Pudding's father told all about it to BM. Possibly before she actually obtained the RPG.
-
Sanji is going to run to the prisoner's library and hear that Luffy and Nami were burned alive, making Sanji sad and hopeless again.
-
@Tamiel:
Sanji is going to run to the prisoner's library and hear that Luffy and Nami were burned alive, making Sanji sad and hopeless again.
I don't know what's more hilarious. The hypothetical situation's absurdity or how I can actually see Oda writing something like that in the next chapter (although he'll still forlornly go to where Luffy is supposed to meet him out of melancholy obligation).
-
Nami: I object to this wedding!
Sanji: Naaa..mi you are alive, but where is..Luf..? FLASHBACK!Sanji uses Sky Walk
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
My bad, I meant Sanji gets all heart eyes and tell Nami cute things, then he leaves.
-
I strongly believe that's just Linlin's assumption, usually people who are not the Gorosei, CD's and can't read poneghlyps are plain clueless about them.
well it's also true that the marine's (and thus government's) rpesence in the new world is really small, so it makes sense that in the depth of it there might be some kind of race they don't know about while the emperors do, since they live there
i's similiar to haki…the only bastion of haki in the "paradise" is amazon lily..but it's off limits to basically anyone and inside the calm belt, so it makes sense that not many people on this side of the red line would know about it.
-
I think, or I just have the idea that the third eye doesn't directly allows you to understand the ancient language of Poneghlyps, that, I don't know, it doesn't compute.
So probably the power of the third eye allows you to 'see' into the past and being able to know the story that things like Poneghlyps have to tell, so that would be why BG assumed the third eye of Pudding could see the route it needs to be followed thru the story of the Poneghlyps and not thru its translation. Well just an idea. -
@Count:
! https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41hPucFxW-L.SY450.jpg
! I actually own this keychain lol.Nice! I have quite a few as well. Except for Corazon, Brook's the only One Piece merch I actively search out!
-
Not that much happened but it got the plot going and showed that the Big Mom crew thinks the Straw hats are beaten…boy are they in for a surprise lol
-
But Big Mom's looks dope. That Charlotte family table scene was amazing. So many varied crewmembers, we have a shit ton of variety on display here and I'm dying to find out what the deal is with all these guys. We have:
-Moustache guy with moustache hat
-Pointy head lady
-Weird mohawk smoker guy (who may have bat wings?)
-Fat weird looking lady (haven't seen Oda really bust out this kind of character design in a while)
-Backless shirt lady
-Weird jack o lantern/scarecrow guy
-Huge flower looking man boy
-Dude wearing a fedora and a suitWho ARE all these guys? And what can they do? And that's in addition to all the guys we've already seen, who've managed to be incredibly unique and feel like they're on another level threat-wise. I mean, you can see how crews like these would manage to stay top 4 for decades (+Blackbeard).
So hyped, I hope Oda can keep this up.
I also absolutely adore BM, but i would assume all those characters shown won´t get more than a few panels.
Otherwise they would have been shown during the army vs Luffy battle and considering how long this arc probably will go i can´t see the time to show them all off. Hell, we haven´t even seen the third sweet commander by now, who will have a more prominent role for sure. -
-It ends with the villain basically screaming "muhaha I'm a villain, look at all the destruction I do for no reason and I am shitting on the rules of the manga because I'm the big bad muhaha" making the most painfuly cliché of a villain that you could ever see.
Which is somehow bad because…..........
One Piece in itself is full of plenty of genre-cliches so i don't really understand this point.
As for BB being a badly written character....... How so? Him being cliched ( being named after the most famous pirate as well as being given an pirate-like appearance with some of the most common "piratey" traits should be enough to give an idea of what Oda wants BB to be) doesn't actually make him badly/lazily written. In fact he is one of the most interesting characters in the series as well as literally being dark-Luffy.
--- Update From New Post Merge ---
1- The rules being broken for an important villain towards the end is a stupid convention often criticized in other mangas. And it is is also bad in this particular case.
2-Blackbeard already is D, Already has more luck than anyone and had just included in his crew the most dangerous individual in the world while wielding the supposedly most powerful fruit of this world. He was already both made special and dangerous.Except the rule wasn't really broken. The narrative itself literally address this point right when BB uses the second fruit with Oda through Marco saying that due to his "unique" body, he is able to do that. Just because we haven't gotten the explanation for it doesn't mean the narrative broke it's own established rules.
-
This post is deleted!
-
@Don:
I also absolutely adore BM, but i would assume all those characters shown won´t get more than a few panels.
Otherwise they would have been shown during the army vs Luffy battle and considering how long this arc probably will go i can´t see the time to show them all off. Hell, we haven´t even seen the third sweet commander by now, who will have a more prominent role for sure.Yeah but considering this is an emperor crew I'm sure these BM pirates members will be shown off and given a day in the limelight in due time. If not from this arc, then definitely later on.
-
Yeah but considering this is an emperor crew I'm sure these BM pirates members will be shown off and given a day in the limelight in due time. If not from this arc, then definitely later on.
Eh… Not really. A bunch of their designs are so simplistic and weird for the sake of weird with no real theme, as if Oda felt obligated to make the mooks look a bit quirky for the sake of Big Mom's wackiness. If the Charlotte family outside of Linlin and Pudding can barely get expanded upon in the arc focused on their home turf, it's doubtful that they ever will get memorable elaborated on. Maybe Katakuri will have an interesting fleshed out personality, but I doubt it after Cracker and Smoothie just being okay in that department.
It's going to be a bit said if Kaido's crew ends up feeling more memorable than Big Mom's quirky family despite the fact that they all seem to be made up of two-dimensional brutes and savages. I'm hoping there's one antithetical smart guy in the Beast Pirates who keeps everybody competent enough to properly function as a crew. Sort of like the Edd in Ed, Edd, n' Eddy.
-
I wasn't expecting any minister that is not a sweet commander ending to be important tbh. Most of them are equivalent to a WB Commander that is not Marco, Jozu or Vista.
-
I wasn't expecting any minister that is not a sweet commander ending to be important tbh. Most of them are equivalent to a WB Commander that is not Marco, Jozu or Vista.
That is an excellent analogy. Although I would also throw in Tamago and Pekoms as important crew members, ironically.
-
Pretty few major differences between the chapter comparisons this time:
- VIZ's name for the chapter is "What are You Doing?"
- In the Mangastream version, the soldiers shout, "It's Boss Jinbe! Wait a sec…Jinbe is staging a mutiny!" as if they only just realized it mid-sentence. However, in the VIZ version, they say "Boss Jimbei is…er, I mean...Jimbei is staging a mutiny!", so they were really just correcting themselves from calling him "Boss".
- In MS, Big Mom says she doesn't yet want to put Brook in the "museum"; in VIZ, she says "the book", confirming that she means the Prison Library. Also, the former has the question of if they's going to kill the SHs "like that", which doesn't really say much, but the latter asks if they'll kill them "in there", as in, they were going to be murdered inside of their book cell.
- After Big Mom tells Pudding, "You're my precious little bride", the original scanlation had her say "If one of these fights goes south and you get taken out, we're going to have a real problem," but she's a bit more specific in the official translation: "I don't want them to come back at you and cause a disaster." Because of the phrasing of both versions, Pudding's original reply "Thanks for the consideration" may or may not have sounded slightly sarcastic, but the official, "Thanks for your concern, Mama" does sound more genuine.
- When BM's talking about Pudding shooting Sanji, her dialogue about the "single/one shot" is a little different: "You'll get one shot–Finish him off with it!" Also, instead of "bare-handed" for the Vinsmokes, she says they'll be "unarmed".
-
Pretty few major differences between the chapter comparisons this time:
- VIZ's name for the chapter is "What are You Doing?"
- In the Mangastream version, the soldiers shout, "It's Boss Jinbe! Wait a sec…Jinbe is staging a mutiny!" as if they only just realized it mid-sentence. However, in the VIZ version, they say "Boss Jimbei is…er, I mean...Jimbei is staging a mutiny!", so they were really just correcting themselves from calling him "Boss".
- In MS, Big Mom says she doesn't yet want to put Brook in the "museum"; in VIZ, she says "the book", confirming that she means the Prison Library. Also, the former has the question of if they's going to kill the SHs "like that", which doesn't really say much, but the latter asks if they'll kill them "in there", as in, they were going to be murdered inside of their book cell.
- After Big Mom tells Pudding, "You're my precious little bride", the original scanlation had her say "If one of these fights goes south and you get taken out, we're going to have a real problem," but she's a bit more specific in the official translation: "I don't want them to come back at you and cause a disaster." Because of the phrasing of both versions, Pudding's original reply "Thanks for the consideration" may or may not have sounded slightly sarcastic, but the official, "Thanks for your concern, Mama" does sound more genuine.
- When BM's talking about Pudding shooting Sanji, her dialogue about the "single/one shot" is a little different: "You'll get one shot–Finish him off with it!" Also, instead of "bare-handed" for the Vinsmokes, she says they'll be "unarmed".
Been waiting all day. Thanks for the great work!
-
I know no one cares, but here's how I rank the arcs in One Piece.
Top Tier
Jaya
Saobaody
Water 7High Tier
Impel Down (It would be top, had the end not been sorta laggy)
Arlong Park
Post MarinefordUpper Mid Tier
Marineford
Cake Island (As It Is Now)
Drum Island
Logue Town
Alabasta
SkypeiaMid Tier
Dressrosa (740- 760 were kinda shitty, but everything else was pretty damn solid)
Baratie
Usopp's Arc
Little Garden
Enies Lobby
Zou
Thriller BarkLower Mid Tier
Punk Hazard
Foxy
Fishman Island (At least it has a solid flashback)
Captain Morgan
Orange Island (Buggy Arc)
Whiskey PeakLow Tier
Amazon Lily (The only arc I really hate; Boa Hancock is obnoxious, and there is way too much fan service)
-
Too many tiers.
I think there are plenty I'd put below Amazon Lily. For example, every arc since the time skip. :ninja:
-
Even Fishman Island was better than Amazon Lily lol. I have to agree with snuba on that one, the arc was mostly a pressure cooker of me getting more and more angry at Hancock…before she falls in love with Luffy and becomes mostly forgettable. There's just not much to care about in the arc, the best part was probably Luffy's crowning moment of awesome in the arena.
-
@Kaido:
Even Fishman Island was better than Amazon Lily lol. I have to agree with snuba on that one, the arc was mostly a pressure cooker of me getting more and more angry at Hancock…before she falls in love with Luffy and becomes mostly forgettable. There's just not much to care about in the arc, the best part was probably Luffy's crowning moment of awesome in the arena.
If I'm being honest here, I would get more enjoyment out of the Gaimon chapter extended into a short arc than Amazon Lily as is.
-
Foxy arc lower than Dressrosa? Nah.
-
I wasn't expecting any minister that is not a sweet commander ending to be important tbh. Most of them are equivalent to a WB Commander that is not Marco, Jozu or Vista.
Mont dÒr actually makes a pretty solid impression,he definitely turned out to be the most competent crewmember, so far being even above Smoothie or Tamago^^
Foxy arc lower than Dressrosa? Nah.
I think Foxy arc is highly underappreciated.
I loved that Oda took a step back from the main storyline and did a short arc just for the fun.
We got a pirate encounter, which should happen more often, especially with a concept of DFs, where more pirates should roam the sea, who could be an obstacle because of their ability.
Also focusing on the funny side is just so refreshing to see (even when Oda never forgets to put plenty of funny moments in an arc) especially considering how Dragonball totally lost this cool aspect from the beginning and just went without the humor for the most time of DBZ.
I can´t say enough of much i appreciate Oda to never forgetting the humor (and in the Foxy arc even centering everything around it) which is even seen in the more serious parts of the story. (recent example would be Luffy´s gear 4th or Usopp´s shock face for Sugar) -
Foxy arc lower than Dressrosa? Nah.
Dressrosa had its issues, but I don't think it was bad enough to not be considered better than a gag arc.