Dragonball Discussion Kai: Broly but this time it's not Broly

[Demon Rin]

Putting this on blast as best I can.

We are currently in danger of losing another amazing DB voice actor, but this time we can do something about it.

Chris Ayres, current AMAZING voice of Freeza from Kai on is having MAJOR medical problems right now. Pretty sure everyone here heard the news on this before, but his family are putting on a fund raiser for him right now to pay medical costs which they can't afford since he hasn't been able to work since March.

They have exceeded their goal, which is awesome, but Medical costs have a way of ballooning ways you don't expect, so I'm still going to share the link here.

https://www.youcaring.com/christopherayres-1010986

[KageKageKing]

Good news everyone.

! Jiren woke up and Stamina is finally taking a toll on Goku.

[LordPerucho]

Good bye 18

[Smiley]

Incredible accurate.

This series in a nutshell.

[Kaiolino]

That was one of the best Kamehamehas in the series.

[Kizuchan]

Episode 116:

The fight choreography is so cool. We barely got anything like this in DBZ.

I love that the RoF scene is finally referenced. I love how well-explained and uniquely executed UI is, it's probably the best-explained power since SSJ2.

I kind of feel like it would've been even better if the animation kept up all the way through because I feel like at points it didn't do the choreography justice.

Goku speaking in the form takes away from some of the mystery, but that's a nitpick on my part because he has to master it eventually and his dialog… is very calm. The roars are still there in his screams, too. The form still has it's unique flavor.

Using Ultimate Battle again, though? I mean, it's not just thrown in there because prev ep it was just the instrumental and this episode has another verse, but if you use an insert song so often, it loses weight.

Finally, can people shut up about Kale and Caulifla now? They didn't get SSJ3 and won against a really weak Goku. What annoys me the most is that people don't criticize their characters, they criticize their strength. It's never "they are one-dimensional" it's always "why so strong" and it's the case even if the writers go out of the way to spell out their limit as clearly as possible. It's by dumb principle.

Anyway, my fave since 110. Goku dodging and sliding off Kefla's blast with the Kamehameha is the coolest shit. 10/10.

[YoungWhite]

-The Ultimate Battle ost is truly amazing. Whoever composed that deserves a medal. It really gets you pumped. They really shouldn't have used it last episode, especially since it didn't match was happening on screen.

-I enjoyed Caulifla & Kale. Whatever negative feelings anyone has had with the power levels shouldn't be thrown towards their characters, but the writers instead.

[onemoment]

@Kaiolino:

That was one of the best Kamehamehas in the series.

Yes to this. I expect it to be played in many AMVs in the future.

As nice as this episode was, I'm left to wonder what's left now that universe 6 is nearly gone. Universe 2 seems to be picking at Universe 7's bones, and Universe 3 is seems to have no idea what they're doing–I don't feel either has much time left in this fight. The only big surprise left seems like Universe 4, who despite seeing Jiren and despite their pitiful losses so far, seem to think that their last fighters have something. What are we going to see before dealing with Jiren, I wonder.

[Kizuchan]

Caulifla and Kale are some of the better characters in here. They have specific motivation, an actual character arc and as female characters aren't motivated by guys, there for fanservice or looked down upon for being women in-story. Like with Hit, the story goes out of it's way to establish limits for them.

Caulifla in particular actually challanges Goku. She has somewhat of a rivalry there. Not all characters have to be instantly friends with him.

[HaxeyeMihawk]

Even with my gripes with Super I gotta say that this choreography would stand up to the top tier of fights in DBZ no problem. If we ignore pure nostalgia of the first time Goku went ssj I might even say this is the best and most interesting form in DB just because it's more than just MOAR POWER & SPEED!!!11!

[thegab]

I just don't get how UI allows goku to pack a harder punch than ssb

[LordPerucho]

Brianne is finally getting a powerup next week, hopefully development, she can be a better character than Kefla.

[Black Leg]

That fight was awesome.

[desa]

@thegab:

I just don't get how UI allows goku to pack a harder punch than ssb

I don't think he does. He is simply landing all of them without being blocked at all.

[The Tenth Strawhat]

Those sexy dodging skills followed by a point-blank Kamehameha, all of my yes.

Shame that Caulifla and Kale are out, but it had to happen at some point. I can't understand why everyone hates the fact that they're both practically overripe for learning the SSJ forms, but whatever. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[thegab]

@desa:

I don't think he does. He is simply landing all of them without being blocked at all.

Shouldn't his hits do nothing though? It looks like just base form still, no ss or god ki

[Kizuchan]

His power comes from the potential from within him. It's like a more advanced version of Gohan's Ultimate form.

Basically it's all his strength without using SSJ. Whis' wording seems similar to that anyway so that's how I figure it is. He temporarily "unlocks his potential" when pushed into a corner.

[K. Kira XXIII]

Pretty entertaining episode. I loved what Kefla accomplished and they didn't have her going through forms like butter.

Goku using his Kamehameha as a skateboard was the best.

[LordPerucho]

SSJ3 might be saved by the time we get Planet Sadala arc imo.

[desa]

@thegab:

Shouldn't his hits do nothing though? It looks like just base form still, no ss or god ki

I'm pretty sure weird eyes and heat are not base form. He even has a weird aura.

[thegab]

@desa:

I'm pretty sure weird eyes and heat are not base form. He even has a weird aura.

Yes but wasn't it stated to be a technique, not a new form?
Though I suppose kaioken is a technique also.

[desa]

@thegab:

Yes but wasn't it stated to be a technique, not a new form?
Though I suppose kaioken is a technique also.

Rock exploding around, physical modification, and new aura definitely means transformation even if they are not calling it that. It seems to not stright up have more power than the others but it definitely is a transfo with some level of power behind it.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

Last time I was pretty disapointed in how they handled Goku's figting style in his new transformation. This time was much better and I enjoyed the fight once it got going.

And the the move to land that Kamehameha was pretty damn awesome. It reminded me of Goku Kaiokenx20 trying to land his kamehama on Freezer while pummeling him.

Jiren is still boring.

U7 is dominating that competition .

[RoboBlue]

I liked the episode overall, but Kefla's massive laser burst attack seriously didn't knock off even a single fighter?

[Thatanas]

@RoboBlue:

I liked the episode overall, but Kefla's massive laser burst attack seriously didn't knock off even a single fighter?

Random energy bursts that are not targetted at you seems easy to dodge.

[Halfmetal-lich]

Good episode.

Not much else to say.

[Louis-1988]

@RoboBlue:

I liked the episode overall, but Kefla's massive laser burst attack seriously didn't knock off even a single fighter?

• The fighting stage is massive
• There's lots of cover thanks to all the kicked up debri
• Most of the weaklings have already been eliminated. Any warrior whose made it this far shouldn't have too much trouble dodging and/or taking cover from just a random assault.

[.access timeco.]

No "in memory of Hiromi Tsuru" at the end of the episode? I will assume they just didn't had enough time, but I will be looking for it in the next one, Toei…

So, very good episode, that final move with Goku using Kefla attack to propel him and then hit her at point black was...

Most of the episode I could only think how much I like Caulifla and Kefla (since she is basically powered-up Caulifla, no Kale in sight) because they were acting like what I could think was the true Saiyan. They were so thrilled by all the power overflowing from them and all their untapped potential, Champa could scream whatever and you knew Kefla wouldn't answer because she was completely lure by her power and all the possibilities before her. Compared to both of them, Goku and Vegeta didn't even looked that much of battle lovers.
So I was really disappointed when Kefla, and then Caulifla later, was mad at Goku for surpassing them… I would expect them to be thrilled in their power-lust seeing in him everything they could yet achieve.

Also, with all the SSJ3 prep before, it was kind weird it wasn't even brought up at any point once they fused. I understand Kefla not using it now, this means Toei is leaving this as room for Kefla to power up in a future arc (meaning she is certain to be back, too), but not even mentioning it since this was the power Caulifla was aiming was weird.

Btw, who was more delusional in this episode?

[Kizuchan]

They had a message about Hiromi Tsuru in the broadcast version.

[Shirohige_AC]

When could one expect the new OST to be available for purchase?

I found good versions and covers of 究極の聖戦 / “Ultimate Battle” on YouTube:

!

!

!

but it's just not "it".

[GetsugaZoro]

I enjoyed the episode, the fight choreography in Goku's last attack the best part(Kefla green and red move and the "claws" were cool also), nothing much to add, I assume next week Ribrianne's universe or Champa's universe will be gone, I still expect her to get rid of one or two of the androids before being eliminated.

Little annoying that Caulifla acts all butthurt about Goku when he was the one who made them stronger, but she lost, so being a bit butthurt is expected.

[MetaMario]

@Kizuchan:

They had a message about Hiromi Tsuru in the broadcast version.

Now I want to find it…

[Cyclone_Baroness]

You know an attack is awesome when they replay it from multiple angles lol. I actually felt pretty excited watching this fight. The choreography was well done.

[maxterdexter]

Yah, the catching up from the last 5 chapter was worth it for the final blow.

U6 2 members
U4 3 members
U11 3 members
U2 5 members
U3 5 members
U7 7 members

[Blissed]

@GetsugaZoro:

Little annoying that Caulifla acts all butthurt about Goku when he was the one who made them stronger, but she lost, so being a bit butthurt is expected.

Exactly. What do you want her to do, thank him?

[Louis-1988]

@maxterdexter:

Yah, the catching up from the last 5 chapter was worth it for the final blow.

U6 2 members
U4 3 members
U11 3 members
U2 5 members
U3 5 members
U7 7 members

U3 has 6 members.

[Ruin]

U3 will have only 2 members when the rest fuse together into a super mech piloted by Paparoni

[Ubiq]

@.access:

Btw, who was more delusional in this episode?
https://s8.postimg.org/xiumx05f9/delusional.png

Vegeta will master it the same way he does everything else.

I hope the two Namekians fuse as well. What have they got to lose by it at this point?

[Cyclone_Baroness]

@Ubiq:

Vegeta will master it the same way he does everything else.

I hope the two Namekians fuse as well. What have they got to lose by it at this point?

Well Kefla getting rung out shows the downside of combining two people. If both Namekians get knocked out U6 gets erased.

[K. Kira XXIII]

I hope Vegeta gets it. Maybe for a second to dodge Toppo and both of them getting knocked out, because when Vegeta attacks he suffers from the same limitations as Goku.

[MetaMario]

Really pleased with Zeno's dub voice.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

and dang, we're not starting the trunks arc until the beginning of 2018

[KageKageKing]

@MetaMario:

and dang, we're not starting the trunks arc until the beginning of 2018

Really? The portuguese dub just stopped at the ending of that one.

[MetaMario]

@KageKageKing:

Really? The portuguese dub just stopped at the ending of that one.

Damn. Super for us only started in the beginning of this year, and I was kinda tuning out for the first two arcs since they're just retellings
at least the tournament was new stuff, but now there's a couple of filler episodes before Trunks.

[Kaiolino]

The channel the Portuguese dub airs on probably doesn’t do marathons every week that pre-empt new episodes.

[Wintermute]

Ultra Instinct. The power gods use, where the flesh is stronger than the mind.

Ho-ly-Shit episode btw.

[loneassassin]

@Wintermute:

Ultra Instinct. The power gods use, where the flesh is stronger than the mind.

Ho-ly-Shit episode btw.

! The way Goku dodged Kefla’s Final attack with the Kamehameha was the best Kamehameha ever, especially since it ended a fight

[maxterdexter]

https://kotaku.com/dragon-ball-super-has-a-touching-message-for-bulmas-voi-1820600166

The message was only in regular broadcast.

[Kizuchan]

Chapter 30: Yeah, I like Jiren and I like the introduction scene for the Pride Troopers. I hope he'll be fleshed out like this in the anime. I always like when the antagonists aren't villains.

The math joke stuff turned out to be just a callback, but Goku and the birth stuff is still awkward. We don't really know the details behind it, but the anime did a better job not really drawing so much attention to it. It's better when it's really not addressed at all.

Goku "causing" the ToP has been fine by me because we know he didn't go to Zeno to ask for universal destruction, the problem is that he doesn't really think before he acts, but he didn't have bad intentions going there and I'm happy the manga addresses this, too. It's much more in-character than the exgaggerations to get the plot where it needed to be in the Goku Black arc.

Vegeta's reaction to not take part is dumber because he actually knows the consequences here. Goku's explanation to not include Goten and Trunks is also better in the anime because it's not just "they're kids" (would be nice if that were explained in detail). But despite my annoyances, this is another good chapter.

[Kaiolino]

Toyotaro’s fanboy hate for Gohan is just grating at this point.

[MetaMario]

found this to be very interesting

[thumbnail is a little racey]

[Kizuchan]

That video spells it out very nicely.

Super is riding off of decades-long writing problems and the writers aren't thinking in complicated terms. They aren't thinking specific numbers. You're not supposed to think "oh Kefla's power level is this many millions" they're thinking "Fusion is OP and we'll show it being OP".

They're just thinking about what might be exciting or what might be fun while following a very rough outline and… it's the best they can do with the hand they've been dealt.

Some people can look past these things, some can't. It just depends on how much these flaws matter to people. To me, as long as the general logic works, and I see the intention of the writers and I'm okay with that intention, I'm cool. As long as DB doesn't betray it's tone, I'm fine with it. I find a lot of DB's flaws very easy to ignore because the narrative itself works. The Caulifla and Kale fight went out of it's way to showcase character flaws and fighting styles and it gave a small character arc to both characters. As a story, I think it worked.

The clear intention with Caulifla and Kale and even Goten and Trunks isn't to ruin everything Goku and Vegeta have achieved, it's to show, look at these fun/cool new characters and have others besides Goku and Vegeta be relevant. There's also the fact that just because a character is strong, doesn't mean the struggles of other characters are suddenly irrelevant. In fact, it's actually a very well-intentioned storytelling move (also useful for marketing).

I really don't like the SJW label people keep throwing around, though. It's pretty clear a good portion of fans do dislike the characters for being strong women. Some of the stuff the characters get thrown at them is incredibly disgusting and something Trunks and Goten as characters don't get.