Wow, Pudding is a total bitch, but I bet she will have her own face-fault, when she finds out that Sanji knows everything. Also her ability looks weird.
Oh, and who would have thought that? Reiju got SHOT!!! (Just what I wrote around 3 weeks ago).
Chapter 851: Tab End
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Okay, but why would lola marry a child? Why would this particular child be the key to becoming pirate king & overpowering the other emperors? Big mom said she would have accomplished these things long ago which implies that the marriage would have happened years ago not when pudding became of age (something that happened in recent times). This theory does not add up. In what situation would pudding be able to insert her hand into BM's head and edit her memory without her being aware of it?
Timeframe-wise, yes, you definitely have a point. Although I doubt Big Mom would care what age the other grooms are. And I've seen a few comedic situations in shows where characters get roped into marriages where the groom is unexpectedly and problematically a kid. It could still stay silly and ridiculous without having to automatically jump into molestation territory lol, nobody's forcing them to do anything. These marriages are just for allied power, happiness or heirs be damned as far as we know.
But Dexter's right when it comes to how suspicious Big Mom acting out of character and Lola having the complete opposite opinion of her from everybody else. With the flashback having not been seen yet, almost anything could occur. I've personally been supporting a Lola/Chiffon twin switcheroo myself, since I don't really see any other reason why Oda decided to have them be identical twins story-wise. As for the situation, I have no idea. But like I said, ANYTHING can happen in a flashback. We can't really doubt Oda when it comes to how capable he is with plot-twists.
@uniaka:
The problem with the theory that pudding is the one that rejected the wedding and blame it on lola that was leaving, is that pudding would need to mess with everyone's head, all family members, all people from the family that was going to unite with BM and evryone on the island. With reiju she had to touch her head to do it, so looks like way too much trouble.
You're right about that. But like Dexter said, they could only have that opinion from word of mouth by Big Mom and Pudding's testimonies.
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@dwo:
Why did Pudding shoot Reiju ???
Just to tell Sanji the story and reveal her ability?Makes abolutely no sense to me. Or do I miss a point?
We don't know yet. That doesn't mean it makes no sense.
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@uniaka:
Reiju heard by chance her plans and decided to confront her, then she had to shoot and capture her? And then told her everything because she can play with her mind anyway.
That wont work that well either. Because Pudding was just editing one image at Reijus memeory. We saw which one. She edited only the Image of her shooting Reiju. So everything after the gunshot is gone, but not before the gunshot.
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Why is Big Mom lecturing Brook instead of beating him to a pulp. Villains don't feel menacing anymore.
Victim of the corrupted Arlong Park staff.
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Why is Big Mom lecturing Brook instead of beating him to a pulp. Villains don't feel menacing anymore.
You're acting like villains bragging and monologuing in the middle of a fight is something new in One Piece that hasn't been present since East Blue. And Brook has already sustained injuries, so she's reasonably surprised as to why he keeps standing up and is willing to fight against her instead of run away. And it's just two pages.
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chapter this week? or this chapter is from this week n we got it early
One Piece ,\/,,
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@Buggy:
chapter this week? or this chapter is from this week n we got it early
It is the latter.
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She taxes and collects, the only things that she has plundered in the manga were the cake ingredients. And the son she killed on a low sugar in the blood moment.
Fishman island and the unnamed destroyed island offered candy for protection.
Her citizens pay in lifeforce instead of tax money or slavery.
The eye was given to her, and the roulette has been used to give a price to crimes against her nation or a person who wants to leave her nation.Unreasonable, of course, but compared to everyone else currently on her weight category, who destroys towns for fun, blows up islands for secrets, boils alive political rivals, keeps the release of dangerous criminals a secret to save face, it seems tame.
Also, if she betrays the Vinsomkes here, then is done, you can only have One red weeding. After that no big fish will come to the trap, and it doesn't seem like the Vinsmoke are big enough to warrant that.
The other thing, is after marrying an unknown number of offsprings, why this one is the one that she decides to betray?
I believe the answer is in the fact Judge and the vinsmoke are bad mouthing Big Mom all the time and have second intentions. They talk with the homies right there, and as we already seen, their info go directly to Big Mom Hat! So she is in the knowing about all of that.
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I believe the answer is in the fact Judge and the vinsmoke are bad mouthing Big Mom all the time and have second intentions. They talk with the homies right there, and as we already seen, their info go directly to Big Mom Hat! So she is in the knowing about all of that.
But that would be such an underwhelming plot twist though. The tactical leader of a militia for hire makes an alliance in a kingdom full of talking objects with cartoony faces literally EVERYWHERE, and has his contingency plan compromised after all of this suspense as to how one of the main characters can escape from a hostage extortion situation because said military leader blabs in front of the tea cups from Beauty and the Beast. I know the Vinsmokes are prideful about their royalty status and all, but that's just cringeworthy stupidity right there. The guy can use his contacts and Big Mom's resources to find out about Sanji's past in the Baratie and the identity of his cooking mentor and father figure, Zeff, but gets his plans foiled because he doesn't think that it might be wise to seal his lips in the candy land equivalent of Peewee's Playhouse.
I don't mean to say your theory doesn't make sense, I've seen it suggested it before. I just expect more sensible characterization from Oda than that lol.
Spoiler:
"Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."
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Gotta be honest, I was getting worried that this arc was gonna be an Enies Lobby rehash with Sanji insted or Robin, the new angle with the betrayal has added a completely new spin to it and it has me excited
Switch Friend Code: SW-1795-2519-1884 • Click Here to check out my Twitch Channel
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@Count:
But that would be such an underwhelming plot twist though. The tactical leader of a militia for hire makes an alliance in a kingdom full of talking objects with cartoony faces literally EVERYWHERE, and has his contingency plan compromised after all of this suspense as to how one of the main characters can escape from a hostage extortion situation because said military leader blabs in front of the tea cups from Beauty and the Beast. I know the Vinsmokes are prideful about their royalty status and all, but that's just cringeworthy stupidity right there. The guy can use his contacts and Big Mom's resources to find out about Sanji's past in the Baratie and the identity of his cooking mentor and father figure, Zeff, but gets his plans foiled because he doesn't think that it might be wise to seal his lips in the candy land equivalent of Peewee's Playhouse.
I don't mean to say your theory doesn't make sense, I've seen it suggested it before. I just expect more sensible characterization from Oda than that lol.
Is not a theory, it was already shown Judge and his sons talking smack of Big Mom in front of the homies(the Chapter where Reiju was shown injured). The directly to the hat information gathering was also already shown(in the exact same Chapter, when big mom was informes of Brook attack).
Judge and the Germa got nothing to do with geting Zeff info. That was handed to them by Big Mom.
That Boeing the reason of Big Mom attck the germa, isn't a plot twist! Plot twist is the surprising change of a plot direction, and not the reason for a characters or group actions. I only gave a reason for why Big Mom will attack the Vinsmokes.
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Is not a theory, it was already shown Judge and his sons talking smack of Big Mom in front of the homies(the Chapter where Reiju was shown injured). The directly to the hat information gathering was also already shown(in the exact same Chapter, when big mom was informes of Brook attack).
Judge and the Germa got nothing to do with geting Zeff info. That was handed to them by Big Mom.
That Boeing the reason of Big Mom attck the germa, isn't a plot twist! Plot twist is the surprising change of a plot direction, and not the reason for a characters or group actions. I only gave a reason for why Big Mom will attack the Vinsmokes.
I saw that myself. That's why I said "I've seen it suggested before", but I apologize that statement's vagueness causing a misunderstanding. I know it's a possibility that makes sense, it's just extremely underwhelming. And yes, that is a plot twist. Because it's surprising part of a change in the plot direction when it comes to the Vinsmokes' portrayal, story role, and fate. If we see a brief flashback by Big Mom about how she was informed about what the Vinsmokes said and decided to forfeit the alliance and seal their fate, that's a type of plot twist. Pudding revealed that the wedding was a ruse for the Big Mom Pirates to destroy the Vinsmokes. That was her explaining a character or group's reasons. A change in a plot direction can come about in multiple forms, especially when explaining reasoning that puts a TWIST on what we weren't supposed to be suspicious of before, but was actually foreshadowing an unexpected result.
At least when soldiers reported to Big Mom about Pedro and Brook's antics, it was an understandable outcome of them causing a boisterous diversion. The Vinsmokes talking smack being their downfall would just be lackluster character and story writing in my opinion with those Homies being right in the open. I mean, they a teapot is literally pouring tea into their cups right in front of them lol.
And all food Homies ever seem to say are brief phrases that are related to food and being thankful for being devoured. It's understandable that the Vinsmokes brag with how those Homies can't seem to effectively communicate. And the timeframe doesn't even make sense because Pudding told the Straw Hats about how she was going to kill Sanji and the Straw Hats being doomed in the chapter before. Not to mention that Reiju left previously and got captured by Pudding in another location. AND this is while Big Mom is in the treasure room in order to subdue Brook from stealing the Road Poneglyph scripture after being informed about Brook and Pedro's raid. So the theory is faulty just on those grounds. Pudding's words strongly indicate that the plan to annihilate the Vinsmokes was something planned for a while, perhaps all the way since the marriage was arranged in the first place.
Spoiler:
"Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."
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I know I am probably alone on this, but I never found jinbe appealing as a potential straw hat. Yes he is a cool character who has done cool things, but I just can't connect with him like I can with any other straw hat.
I am hoping he wont actually join and just be a vivi like straw hat and we actually get another member. ( although I wouldnt mind him joining if we get a new one still as well. ):ninja:
That's silly Jinbe may not be super appealing, but he is the glue the SHs need. They've been rolling along this entire adventure blind of the world, which shouldn't have worked. Jinbe will be the quartermaster, he'll rein things in. Keep luffy and co cognizant of things they need to be.
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@Count:
I saw that myself. That's why I said "I've seen it suggested before", but I apologize that statement's vagueness causing a misunderstanding. I know it's a possibility that makes sense, it's just extremely underwhelming. And yes, that is a plot twist. Because it's surprising part of a change in the plot direction when it comes to the Vinsmokes' portrayal, story role, and fate. If we see a brief flashback by Big Mom about how she was informed about what the Vinsmokes said and decided to forfeit the alliance and seal their fate, that's a type of plot twist. Pudding revealed that the wedding was a ruse for the Big Mom Pirates to destroy the Vinsmokes. That was her explaining a character or group's reasons. A change in a plot direction can come about in multiple forms, especially when explaining reasoning that puts a TWIST on what we weren't supposed to be suspicious of before, but was actually foreshadowing an unexpected result.
At least when soldiers reported to Big Mom about Pedro and Brook's antics, it was an understandable outcome of them causing a boisterous diversion. The Vinsmokes talking smack being their downfall would just be lackluster character and story writing in my opinion with those Homies being right in the open. I mean, they a teapot is literally pouring tea into their cups right in front of them lol.
And all food Homies ever seem to say are brief phrases that are related to food and being thankful for being devoured. It's understandable that the Vinsmokes brag with how those Homies can't seem to effectively communicate. And the timeframe doesn't even make sense because Pudding told the Straw Hats about how she was going to kill Sanji and the Straw Hats being doomed in the chapter before. Not to mention that Reiju left previously and got captured by Pudding in another location. AND this is while Big Mom is in the treasure room in order to subdue Brook from stealing the Road Poneglyph scripture after being informed about Brook and Pedro's raid. So the theory is faulty just on those grounds. Pudding's words strongly indicate that the plan to annihilate the Vinsmokes was something planned for a while, perhaps all the way since the marriage was arranged in the first place.
Something cannot be a possibility if already happened. The Vinsmokes already talked trash to Big Mom and revealed plans against her crew in front of her homies. That is a done deal, Oda already drawn a panel with the Vinsmokes Being stupid.
The plot twist is the fact that big mom will destroy the Vinsmokes instead of allying with them. That is the plot twist, and that revelation was already done by Pudding. The reason of why the destroying will happen is not a plot twist!
The timeframe has nothing to do with this. Nothing indicates that was the first time the Vinsmokes talked trash in front of Big Mom Homies, in fact it isnt the first time Judge was shown insulting Big Mom.
A theory is the development of a body of knowledge, what I did was simply take some facts and induce a simples permisse: Big Mom is doing this, because of that. This is not a theory!
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The length of the wedding isn't the issue; it's the amount of time between right now and the wedding. It's still more than 12 hours away! Closer to 24, even, if it's an afternoon one. And Luffy is going to want to counterattack right now. I'm sure it'll go for long enough when we get there, but that seems a long way with the present setup.
I also wondered in a post how Oda would deal with that time. If the fact that Chopper know control the mirror world made me think it would help them planning something, there is still the question of Brook and Pedro which are in pinch right now.
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Something cannot be a possibility if already happened. The Vinsmokes already talked trash to Big Mom and revealed plans against her crew in front of her homies. That is a done deal, Oda already drawn a panel with the Vinsmokes Being stupid.
The issue is that it's still a possibility because we don't know if the Homies did, or are even capable of telling Big Mom. You're acting like it's a surefire thing that Big Mom got informed about what these Homies heard and that's how she decided they I'm not debating that Judge trash talked Big Mom in front of some Homies, I'm debating that doing so is what got the Vinsmokes targeted for annihilation during the wedding.
The plot twist is the fact that big mom will destroy the Vinsmokes instead of allying with them. That is the plot twist, and that revelation was already done by Pudding. The reason of why the destroying will happen is not a plot twist!
You're acting as if there can't be two plot twists. Or that one plot twist can't support or be part of a bigger one.
The timeframe has nothing to do with this. Nothing indicates that was the first time the Vinsmokes talked trash in front of Big Mom Homies, in fact it isnt the first time Judge was shown insulting Big Mom.
The first and only other time that Judge dissed Big Mom was when he cuffed Sanji in Germa 66' country. Away from prying eyes connected to Big Mom, because it is his home turf. Meanwhile, this is how Judge acts whenever he's around Linlin:
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Revealing that the Vinsmokes talked negatively about Big Mom in another scene besides the beginning of chapter 849 would be a cheap copout because we never saw it, and thus, it was never established before the reveal as reasonable foreshadowing and build-up. Just because he talked bad about Big Mom one other time in a safe area doesn't necessarily mean he's reckless enough to do it out in the open with a bunch of Homies he clearly sees are around if they're capable of telling Big Mom anything. The fact that he should know they're there, and still chooses to speak out in the open, shows that he has understandable confidence that he can't be found out. Having an act so blatantly reckless would go against how he is established to be careful and methodical. It makes him absurdly incompetent, even regarding his irrational pride and lack of proper compassion. It doesn't make sense in terms of characterization, and it certainly doesn't make sense for a satisfying foreshadowing towards a turn of events besides hinting at the irony of how the Big Mom Pirates had a plan to annihilate, not just Sanji (which is a possibility they outright make fun of on that page because he's worthless to them), but the whole family.
And of course the timeframe has something to do with this lol. It's what allows this sequence of events to make sense. Which it doesn't. Because the Vinsmokes bragging about taking Pudding hostage as leverage if Big Mom wants to manipulate them didn't take place early enough for the reveal about the Vinsmokes being destroyed to make sense if it was decided upon after the Vinsmokes talked behind Linlin's back. Reiju already left a while ago and was probably already shot by Pudding simultaneously as the Vinsmokes were talking. She didn't have time to be informed about the Vinsmokes' statements to suddenly brag about the Vinsmokes' demise. Especially when she told Luffy and Nami about Sanji getting shot by her and the Straw Hats being doomed in the chapter BEFORE the Vinsmokes talk smack about allying with Big Mom. She was praising her ruse so much seemingly because it was the plan all along, which explains why she made fun of Sanji so much when talking about how she manipulated him. Not to mention that Big Mom isn't even in her throne room or available for an update because she's literally rushing to Brook's location during the chapter right after being informed of his treasure room raid.
This all goes to show that barely anything adds up in terms of the where and how when it comes to Big Mom deciding to eliminate the Vinsmokes because a few Homies eavesdropped and ratted them out. You only cover the why, but not to the how or the where. Do you see where I'm getting at now?
A theory is the development of a body of knowledge, what I did was simply take some facts and induce a simples permisse: Big Mom is doing this, because of that. This is not a theory!
Applying factual evidence in order to reach a conclusion that hasn't been explicitly confirmed yet IS a theory. Pudding claiming that Big Mom wants to destroy the Vinsmokes is a fact. The potential reason being that the Vinsmokes talked bad about her is theoretical, because you're evaluating that based on previous scenes that could be taken as foreshadowing. Key word, COULD. We're just arguing semantics at this point. Having a theory doesn't mean it's inherently flawed or bad, that's just what it is until we get a confirmation. It doesn't mean you can't reasonably have confidence in it being true. Just don't act like it's absolute and can't ever questioned if we know that it hasn't been confirmed.
It's not like I think what you're saying is impossible, it can certainly happen and it's not impossible. I'm just trying to voice my thoughts on how it would be a disappointing reveal and flawed both chronologically and in terms of proper characterization/storytelling.
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I have a suspicion that for Big Mum Brook is like an infinite well of soul power, something shes been looking for forever.
Originally Posted by Characters
Constantine Woe • Captain • Crewname N/A • Markswoman/Inventor• Bounty :23,000,000 • SD Earned : 2400 • Beli : 37,000,500 • L : Romulin
Strength: 100 | Speed: 50 | Stamina: 42 | Accuracy: 50 | Fortune: 60
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A few posters have brought to mind something that I've been thinking about for a while now. Basically I think this is a turning point for Sanji's character and we will get a slight personality change. Well change may be too much of a strong word but maybe toned down.
The cool thing about One Piece because it's so long is that we gradually see the crew change and evolve their habits and personalities very subtly just like people in real life. Even when a major event shakes things up the characters don't just instantly go from white to black we see gradual change that wouldn't have been the case earlier in the adventure. Robin, Zoro, Nami and Usopp are the most obvious examples.
Brook is one that I feel isn't mentioned enough. When we first met Brook he just didn't have proper social skills. He hadn't been around regular people for so long he was kinda nuts. Then you had constant skull jokes right up the bitter end with Kuma. And I guess depending on who you talk to Brook was just annoying back then, to readers and even to folks like Robin and Franky. After two years of being with people his social behavior completely changed once he returned to the crew. Still the same person but with better social skills.
As for Sanji he had been away from the kind of women he loved for so long, his whole system was out of wack. The nose bleeds steadily calmed down in Fishman Island but he still seems to be much more hyper about hot women than he's ever been in the story. When people complain that the crew has become charactures of themselves I figure they only mean Sanji. Now though everything that Sanji's ever loved is coming under fire with his spirit looking to be completely broken by a woman he though was his saving grace in this mess.
I think after all this is done we will continue to get the heart eyes but it will be toned down quite a bit. This experience may very well have him looking at women ever so differently. He won't start kicking women though I'm certain of that. I'm not sure if Sanji's heart is actually broken or if it's just a broken spirit from situation all together but I think this will be the moment we look back to when we want to see the moment Sanji really changed.
Folks who read One Piece… Just better people. ¯\(ツ)/¯
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I still can't understand why BM wants to ice the Vinsmokes for.
Maybe to keep the cloning tech? But the marriage should cover that too, right?
The face of a Straw Hat. -
I have a suspicion that for Big Mum Brook is like an infinite well of soul power, something shes been looking for forever.
Or the opposite. He is alive and kicking eventhough he died already, so it could be just as likely that the count of his years such as seen by Big Mom's powers would be zero. He could be to her what Luffy is to Eneru.
Which makes me think : should we consider Brooks as one of the very few immortal (in the "undying" sense) beings of the One Piece world ? I don't think the manga ever covered in detail the implications of his DF powers. Does he last until his bones fall into dust, or does his soul still vanish when the span of his human years runs out ? Also, beyond old age : his body can be broken, we have seen that much, but then what ? Does his soul simply keep going in spirit form ? -
I have been thinking a bit about what Big Mom's DF power would do against someone who received the Ope Ope's immortality surgery.
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The cool thing about One Piece because it's so long is that we gradually see the crew change and evolve their habits and personalities very subtly just like people in real life. Even when a major event shakes things up the characters don't just instantly go from white to black we see gradual change that wouldn't have been the case earlier in the adventure. Robin, Zoro, Nami and Usopp are the most obvious examples.
But what about Chopper, man? I feel like he's had the most apparent development since his debut. Chopper always saw himself as a freak of nature because his herd never read Rudolph so they didn't know how to cope with someone with a different colored nose and abandoned the young one. Then that feeling got dialed up to 100 after eating a DF, the Human-Human Fruit and tried to make friends with people only to still be a monster in their eyes. Then Chopper met people like Hiruluk and Luffy and taught him that it's ok to be different, especially since the latter is quite literally made of rubber. Ever since then, he's slowly but surely accepting the monster side of him, then Kuma comes in and wham! Separated from his friends for two years. It was in those two years that he fully started establishing himself as a true beast to protect his crew no matter what. It's generic shounen stuff, but heck, I live for it and love it.
It's just a shame that most other people see him as a simple mascot (which I know he is, but he's not only that) and nothing more. Don't get me wrong, I definitely concur with how Brook doesn't get enough attention when it comes to slow and fulfilling character development and the fact that Sanji will by all odds rise from the ashes and he will evolve too. It's just, dang it, I want people to notice there's a real person in that cute tanuki. :cwy:
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I wonder when Chopper will finally be recognized by the WG as a powerful monster than 100 berry cotton loving chopper.
I don't think Brook will die ever, his soul will always live on, he can always find a new host can't he? I mean he could've gone into a different body when he was revived but didn't - I wonder what could've happened. Bones will last forever as long he drinks milk.
One Piece ,\/,,
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@Buggy:
I don't think Brook will die ever, his soul will always live on, he can always find a new host can't he? I mean he could've gone into a different body when he was revived but didn't - I wonder what could've happened. Bones will last forever as long he drinks milk.
He needs that afro so Laboon can recognizes him.
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This post is deleted!
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@Buggy:
I wonder when Chopper will finally be recognized by the WG as a powerful monster than 100 berry cotton loving chopper.
Never
Do take note though that all of his significant actions in this arc have occurred in a parallel universe… -
@The:
I still can't understand why BM wants to ice the Vinsmokes for.
Maybe to keep the cloning tech? But the marriage should cover that too, right?
I've got two theories.
1.) She was originally going to keep her promise, but Judge did something that made her change her mind. Like, maybe she realized that Judge doesn't truly consider Sanji his son, so see saw that as an insult?
2.) She just doesn't trust them. Germa 66 is a notorious evil army after all.
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@The:
I still can't understand why BM wants to ice the Vinsmokes for.
Maybe to keep the cloning tech? But the marriage should cover that too, right?
There is no wiggle room for dead people to deny you something. Big Mom might have planned to go through the wedding at first, bus as soon as Ceasar was captured she figure that she did not need the Vinsmoke, that the fact that Judge saw himself on equal footing as Big Mom might have pissed her off, the same way her flunky's admiration of the Vinsmoke did.
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shrugs She's a pirate. She's super old and this ensures she gets to see her dream come true. Makes perfect sense. If she sucked at the service she provided people wouldn't give their lives away.
If you do the math, which I think I did in an old column, people can still live very full lives to ripe old ages, probably even older than I'll make it, from birth to death in TL despite her policy.
This could just as well describe Luffy. Which was my point.
I zeroed in on her hedonistic tendencies because between that, the negative reputation the Germa 66 have that they perpetuate, and having nobody else to rely on besides Linlin herself. Maybe Big Mom thinks she can get away with wiping them out without serious backlash. But then, that's my own personal bias against the Vinsmokes talking.
@Count:
I don't think wise, honorable, and selfless Jimbei would have decided to make an alliance with Big Mom, the Yonko who occasionally likes to backstab the people she tries to ally with before the alliance is even formed. Or that somebody like Pekoms who clearly cares for his homeland would do such a thing either. At least when Zepo had all of his lifespan stolen, he and Pedro presumably caused a mess in Totland and got Baron Tamago to lost an eye. And by villain standards, Big Mom letting them off the hook with a roulette is pretty tame. Nobody's who wants to get along with Big Mom are going to look at somebody as powerful and oppressive as Big Mom betraying Germa 66 and think that she's an admirable person that they could trust to protect them. They'll think she's almost as unpredictably belligerent as Kaido, which would break her image.
We're not saying that Big Mom is reasonable. Of course she isn't. But her ethics are still understandable and consistent up until Pudding's reveal though. That's what we have an issue with. Because Oda has hitting us over the head time and time again with how Big Mom is prone to negotiation, doesn't care for the reasons why as a form of respect, and how bystanders/crewmates are surprised at how she is willing to bargain despite how intimidating she is. Oda building all of that up only to let it go down the drain with her breaking that code on a whim if what Pudding says is true betrays Big Mom on levels of ethics, logic, and overall character/writing quality. Which I wouldn't be a fan of when it comes to what I admire from Oda's storytelling, characterization, cooperative/conflicting perspectives, and compelling figurative themes.
! http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-UUzX5idn4aA/WBpG_7da5vI/AAAAAAABKpo/gekZG1NimRIHSc642DfmqdqBOzoazyOgQCHM/s16000/0651-019.png
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! http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ez9I5LwdXEk/V-gaIHhZtVI/AAAAAAAAfp4/w7gSqtmU5_cBbgutHBh5nyNcqdq4NouVACHM/s16000/0830-011.png
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! http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ayZcu1pY95g/WFv_OLHiSHI/AAAAAAAE-Sw/FMW4HQ8gg_cNMEAgsUa3ls3T1GfdiHD7gCHM/s16000/0850-010.png
! http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-N7Kx94BIDx8/WFv_OfjBaKI/AAAAAAAE-Sw/im9S_qkAtKwPBjyAFlPHgN3LQDveWkfIQCHM/s16000/0850-011.png
! http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-NQucfC5Ixwo/WFv_OrKssII/AAAAAAAE-Sw/UeQJ8yklRRwbs7kKQXChgyE5f8QgCSDNwCHM/s16000/0850-012.pngOda went as far as to show us, not one, not two, but FOUR DEALS where Big Mom successfully gave her honest word and respect to the other party of the negotiation in respect to her beliefs of piracy, selfishness, and "equal exchange". It's so easy to just wave Big Mom's actions off as her just being "bad" or "psychotic". And while those adjectives aren't necessarily false (she does even seem to literally have some form of mental illness lol), they don't give proper acknowledgment to how her actions benefit others and how some RESPECT and APPRECIATE some of those ethically complex facets. Like Greg just mentioned with the citizens of Totland, and my earlier examples of Jimbei and Pekoms.
Not to mention that Big Mom's ideals of piracy embodying earnest selfishness heavily align with Luffy's philosophy of how pirates are distinct from heroes because of how selfish they are, and how he wants to be Pirate King in order to be the freest man in the sea without being bound by any obligation, even the law. Given how recurrently deep Oda likes to get with and scene parallels to monumental moments of pirate ethics with Luffy (like his meeting with Bellamy in Jaya paralleling Higuma trying to humiliate Shanks in the bar in Chapter 1. Or Luffy first meeting Usopp and telling him to not bluff when expressing a verbal threat about guns paralleling what Shanks said to Higuma when he captured Luffy and threatened Shanks. Or Luffy and Teach's parallelism in general), I very much doubt that is a coincidence. Luffy and Big Mom obviously disagree on how they EXECUTE their beliefs, but that common ground they share in their philosophical foundation is going to be relevant, and will most likely play a role in how the Straw Hats get away from Totland without unrealistically defeating Big Mom. But Big Mom betraying that makes her reach two-bit irredeemable villain territory like every past arc antagonist who have no redeemable qualities whatsoever, while Oda at least portrays Big Mom uniquely as a mixed bag for some peculiar reason. Especially in comparison to Kaido.
! http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-VPNSyrfkFnE/WBpKKkx36qI/AAAAAAABM7w/VHcKnP8y-V0JnSEJnDTcTUgLaEYrWEFPwCHM/s16000/0634-005.png
! http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-e0SzfPa2Q84/WB4ZbjneGlI/AAAAAAABkfk/4zWNfQr6l5k6xxZiVD1VjlSCm1gXbpC1gCHM/s16000/0800-003.png
! http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-3G3WfTKzDEs/WB4ZcBNmBTI/AAAAAAABkfk/vqlCKa_UTnwhBrIIVFgk7dgpK1GGjl0KACHM/s16000/0800-004.png
! http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-HStCrc_ArrY/WB4ZcXahCRI/AAAAAAABkfk/1uk-YVyohMckl241p7hgaPKzP_562GLFgCHM/s16000/0800-005.png
! http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-l4VbLcTrp5U/WB4Zc6g22-I/AAAAAAABkfk/kBQ7-8kYx8AxgGVAU25yKWARca0qO-IjACHM/s16000/0800-006.png
! http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-P8L2HQkaU4s/WB4Zdae8znI/AAAAAAABkfk/LzlBcIFDeeUcbRYjqpB4YPLz-f9fywygACHM/s16000/0800-008.png
! http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-bYCgVBA9UXs/WB4ZekaTlzI/AAAAAAABkfk/-2vm2koLxNYr1E62bhWKpjQJr3DZ-Yc3ACHM/s16000/0800-010.png
! http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Mlf2YMiH9RM/WB4ZexiDU9I/AAAAAAABkfk/X59viXIgs4YNpYnkMyFEa7mu_axIanSyACHM/s16000/0800-011.png
! http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-h8ikIE3kCgk/WB4ZfdOrR5I/AAAAAAABkfk/6OJYpnBv9tYQs7ASm-O_q2SBaW_Shb_jgCHM/s16000/0800-012.pngYou can actually see the both the profound similarities and dissimilarities between Luffy and Linlin in those few page; Just from how alike they sound when looking at the first page and imagining how different their actions and quotes would be in the rest with how Big Mom goes about the roulette dealings and the political marriages where she cares less about the say of her children.
! http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-U0KrhcQtaJA/WBob1tps-cI/AAAAAAABFLA/eyz-fohHF9oX1uD04ylgdWNzXEAoprDzgCHM/s16000/0845-008.png
! http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-1VBQk5lwV6U/WBob2n0zfCI/AAAAAAABFLU/NG0qcc-jFW0SCTmnr-trFOpnpcXbkZxkgCHM/s16000/0845-009.pngYou claim that her selfish personal satisfaction only merits positive results as a by-product. While I don't fully agree with that, even if you believe that, that doesn't mean her personal satisfaction can't be bound by consistent STANDARDS. Those standards being the reason why people make alliances with her in the first place. She might be crazy and selfish, but in her own unique way compared to most other people. Which means she doesn't have to necessarily act similar to other corrupt selfish individuals such as Kaido or Teach, or be viewed to be as negatively influential as they are.
And how exactly do you propose a situation where he can retake North Blue, which would therefore promote a high chance of going to war with the Marines/World Government, without there being a potential risk? Big Mom is literally the only reasonable Yonko to go to for such an operation. Shanks would be too noble to go along with such an endeavor, Kaido is way too savagely cruel and impetuous, and nobody in their right mind should make a deal with somebody as power hungry and cunning as Teach without some sort of contingency (which I expect Kuzan has in some fashion). If Judge wants Germa Kingdom to effectively expand and reclaim its former glory, Big Mom is legitimately one of or the ONLY chance for him to get that. So of course there are risks involved, and that's obvious. But it doesn't mean that it's expected or sensical for Big Mom to want their destruction.
Big Mom is psychotic and selfish, but like I've been saying, she does what she wants for CONSISTENT reasons. You just keep looking at those adjectives and take them at face value to mean she randomly does whatever and doesn't care to hold herself to any standards when that clearly isn't true from what her characterization has constantly affirmed. You might as well apply those "delusional", "greedy" and "egotistical" labels on Jimbei also for getting involved with Big Mom, or Luffy for wanting to become Pirate King and holding other pirates accountable for their dishonorable atrocities as a means of saying he shouldn't judge them by your line of logic. As if to say "Luffy's a pirate, and pirates are often synonymous with greedy, oppressive, homicidal plunderers. So why should he have an issue with people like Crocodile, Moria, or Doflamingo who are like that?" You're acting as piracy or philosophies can't have reasonable differentiations in execution between individuals, which people should come to understand as they become familiar with their reputation.
I don't mean any personal disrespect towards you when I say this, but your argument makes you sound like an ignorant beat cop or newspaper publisher in a superhero movie who criticizes the heroically selfless protagonist by equating masked vigilantes with criminals because they both act outside of the law, and thus we should prejudicially expect all of them to be menaces to society. Or I can give an honorable mention to Akainu's logic in how he judges anybody who defies his Absolute Justice dogma by obstructing as meriting death and can't have justifiable reasons behind their actions. Because, of course, all pirates evil and can't have a consistent or respectable form of ethics. That comparison somewhat works too, but I hope you don't interpret that as me saying you're literally that deluded/corrupt lol. I just pointing out a similar type of hole in your logic rather than generalizing.
No worries, I admit i'm not looking at this objectively, it's just wishful thinking. I enjoy poetic justice, the Vinsmokes are ideal candidates for that, Judge especially. The thought of something terrible happening to the lot of them, tied to Judge's own selfish ambition, is one I find to be delightful. Thank you for taking the time to elaborate, it was very insightful.
“I thought of Godzilla as the embodiment of violence and hatred for mankind, because he was created by atomic energy. He's like a symbol of humanity's complicity in their own destruction. He doesn't have an emotion. He is an emotion.” — Jun Fukuda
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Sorry for being "that guy", but is there a chapter this week or a break?
Thanks in advance.
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Sorry for being "that guy", but is there a chapter this week or a break?
Thanks in advance.
No chapter this week.
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I zeroed in on her hedonistic tendencies because between that, the negative reputation the Germa 66 have that they perpetuate, and having nobody else to rely on besides Linlin herself. Maybe Big Mom thinks she can get away with wiping them out without serious backlash. But then, that's my own personal bias against the Vinsmokes talking.
No worries, I admit i'm not looking at this objectively, it's just wishful thinking. I enjoy poetic justice, the Vinsmokes are ideal candidates for that, Judge especially. The thought of something terrible happening to the lot of them, tied to Judge's own selfish ambition, is one I find to be delightful. Thank you for taking the time to elaborate, it was very insightful.
I don't deny that the Vinsmokes getting punked by Big Mom into oblivion wouldn't be an ironically fitting form of demise lol. I wouldn't mind that at all. I just want Big Mom's character to stay consistent in doing so. Which would in turn make the Vinsmokes' destruction that much more satisfying, because we would get to see how they dig their own grave to provoke Big Mom during this arc as the wedding goes to hell rather than Big Mom having a conscience off-panel. Whatever the case, I hope the reasoning for this betrayal is explained soon. Assuming Pudding's even telling the truth, although she has no reason to lie to somebody whose memory she is about to erase after giving a Bond villain monologue.
Spoiler:
"Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."
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@Count:
I don't deny that the Vinsmokes getting pinked by Big Mom into oblivion wouldn't be an ironically fitting form of demise lol. I wouldn't mind that at all. I just want Big Mom's character to stay consistent in doing so. Which would in turn make the Vinsmokes' destruction that much more satisfying, because we would get to see how they dig their own grave to provoke Big Mom during this arc as the wedding goes to hell rather than Big Mom having a conscience off-panel. Whatever the case, I hope the reasoning for this betrayal is explained soon. Assuming Pudding's even telling the truth, although she has no reason to lie to somebody whose memory she is about to erase after giving a Bond villain monologue.
It does look wierd why BM would want to waste such army instead of keeping them under her and make her crew stronger to face other yonkous. There was conversation with her underling that was so hyped about the vinsmokes and BM looked jealous. Maybe she doesn't want people around her that take the attention?
As in she is similar with Cavendish, he wants the attention, reason there are no giants in her land, because the ywill take all the attention.
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It doesn't seem to me that it's about the army itself, but about the cloning technology.
Perhaps she wants to combine it with CC's research. Might be easier to apply his procedures that way.
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@uniaka:
It does look wierd why BM would want to waste such army instead of keeping them under her and make her crew stronger to face other yonkous.
The way I understood it, she wants to keep the army as well as the cloning tech. It's only the Vinsmoke royals and anyone too close to them that she is planning to dispose of. Afterwards, Germa kingdom, its soldiers and its inhabitants would simply answer to a new ruler from the Linlin family, I assume
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The way I understood it, she wants to keep the army as well as the cloning tech. It's only the Vinsmoke royals and anyone too close to them that she is planning to dispose of. Afterwards, Germa kingdom, its soldiers and its inhabitants would simply answer to a new ruler from the Linlin family, I assume
Presumably Pudding, as the only spouse of the Vinnsmoke royal house.
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When is the next chapter release? this week we have chapter?
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So is this arc the best shot sanji will ever get to fight women and use hands in battle for full potential in battle?
Like, with pudding that can delete his memory about zeff's words to him… no need to break his rules himself.
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Anyone has mentioned yet the parallelism between Sanji refusing to harm his hands which are tied to his dream, with Luffy's willingness to destroy his own hands to protect everyone's life and dreams?
Maybe the next time Sanji sees Luffy he will notice how hurt his hands are and will react to it?
(it was just a random thought)
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@uniaka:
So is this arc the best shot sanji will ever get to fight women and use hands in battle for full potential in battle?
Like, with pudding that can delete his memory about zeff's words to him… no need to break his rules himself.
Why would she do that though?
That does nothing but hurt her plans and I don't see Oda just getting rid of that quirk for Sanji just like that.
Also it's not a rule or policy, Oda said as much:
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If Sanji was to kick Pudding without some kind of Hiatus X Hiatus-like twist, it would deeply (deeply) cheapen his actions and decisions to this point.
Pudding is capable of erasing Sanjis good memories and then we have Hell Sanji the most powerful ans tortured beeing xd!
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It doesn't seem to me that it's about the army itself, but about the cloning technology.
Perhaps she wants to combine it with CC's research. Might be easier to apply his procedures that way.
This way she could have her army of giants? Maybe Elbaf will fit into this arc somehow.
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If Sanji was to kick Pudding without some kind of Hiatus X Hiatus-like twist, it would deeply (deeply) cheapen his actions and decisions to this point.
Hunter Hunter pulls some weird psychology tricks to twist characters in knots and make them do things they would never otherwise have done.
@uniaka:
So is this arc the best shot sanji will ever get to fight women and use hands in battle for full potential in battle?
Like, with pudding that can delete his memory about zeff's words to him… no need to break his rules himself.
Pudding is capable of erasing Sanjis good memories and then we have Hell Sanji the most powerful ans tortured beeing xd!
this connects very well, i like the thought that pudding might change sanji's habits that way
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Hell memories huh. Sanji talking about his different hells, iron mask, okama and pudding. Dispair anger and sadness. Will oda keep pushing the hell theme or sanji will start climbing to heaven?
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Germa 66, "a man of wealth and taste" the spice trash talk. Sanji is Lucifer themed.
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Thinking about this chapter, I realized that there are too many ways for things to go down now.
I remember back in Dressrosa, when Sugar's power was explained, I had imagined there could be someone very important to the plot that had been turned into a toy and forgotten, so never mentioned before.Now I can imagine the same level of crazy scenarios for Pudding's DF:
She could have changed Big Mom's memory of Lola;
She could have changed Lola's memory of Big Mom;
She could even be controlling someone through fake memories out there. Imagine Pudding manipulating Big Mom.It will end up being something much simpler, but I'll have fun imagining those scenarios now.
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I've got two theories.
1.) She was originally going to keep her promise, but Judge did something that made her change her mind. Like, maybe she realized that Judge doesn't truly consider Sanji his son, so see saw that as an insult?
2.) She just doesn't trust them. Germa 66 is a notorious evil army after all.
I think you're applying too much logic, villains don't need good reasons to want to kill, and take everything for themselves. Its like in the commandments of villainy.
Originally Posted by Characters
Constantine Woe • Captain • Crewname N/A • Markswoman/Inventor• Bounty :23,000,000 • SD Earned : 2400 • Beli : 37,000,500 • L : Romulin
Strength: 100 | Speed: 50 | Stamina: 42 | Accuracy: 50 | Fortune: 60
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I think you're applying too much logic, villains don't need good reasons to want to kill, and take everything for themselves. Its like in the commandments of villainy.
That's a pretty close-minded way to generalize antagonists as just being whimsically belligerent. As if being a villain is synonymous with acting like a rabid dog without any sense modus operandi or unconventional ethics. Especially concerning someone with as much depth and uniqueness as Big Mom.
Spoiler:
"Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."
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My guess is, that sanji will cook one of his 99 recipts of rejuvination for luffy, they´ll travel through mirrorworld, find all their allies and make a plan we´ll not know now. They will not fight big mom, they will leave that to germa 66. Only question is how they will get rid of sanjis handcuffs without the power of D. Law.
Funeral Master
