When Luffy asked Brook to join his crew, he couldn't because he lacked a shadow. Sanji had Baratie and the cooks all needed to do that stunt to force him to go out. And Franky had that Franky Family thing. Jinbe's situation is just the same, the only difference it is not at the same arc.
Chapter 851: Tab End
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There's one thing bothering me about the latest developments. It feels like they're all happening too soon. No, not in terms of pacing. As far as story structure goes, this is a fine time for things to start turning in the Straw Hats' favour. But in terms of the in-universe time - it's all so early. Think about it, Luffy and Nami are breaking out, and Luffy's going to want to go straight on the offensive; Pekoms has knocked down his most obvious opponent; Brook is so close to his objective, even with Linlin standing in his way; Chobro and Carrot have taken over the mirror world; Sanji has realised the folly of his strategy up to this point. Everything's in place for the Straw Hat comeback battle. But it's just too soon.
The wedding isn't until tomorrow, everyone keeps saying it. The storm clouds make it kinda hard to tell exactly what the time is, but the fact that Sanji's concerned over Pudding missing a lunch meeting in chapter 849, with no mention of either dinner being skipped as well, or being close, leads me to guess we're sometime in the afternoon. Even assuming it starts early in the morning, the ceremony is presently more than 12 hours away, and Luffy will want to clobber Linlin immediately. It's enough to make me just a little worried we won't get to see the wedding at all.
The contingency, I suppose, is Jimbe. He's appealed to Luffy's common sense and made him hold back from a direct assault on someone he just wants to hit before (at Impel Down and Fishman Island), so it's reasonable that if he had a plan that could only work if they put it into action during the ceremony Luffy might convinced to wait. And with Chobro and Carrot around, there are tools for plan-making here. But this leaves Brook's fate uncertain, and gives Pedro nothing to for 12+ hours until the wedding starts.
Basically I think it's gonna take some interesting narrative gymnastics to get all these moving parts to align for their plots to satisfyingly conclude at the wedding from this point. (Because logically we have to see the wedding.) I'm interested to see how Oda will do it in the next few weeks.
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I wonder if Greg still thinks that an alliance with Big Mom is possible with the last chapters I mean her and Pudding seem completely rotten to the core in the last chapters
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Jinbe, Jinbe, oh Jinbe…. the perpetual girl-next-door of the Next Crewmate discussions.
Before I go any further with this, please let me be clear, because I would rather not be misunderstood, and having a hundred people tear me to shreds for my opinions is just, well, not my idea of a good time. I'm happy for the people who like the big fish. I really am. He has a lot of great things going for him, and some of the arguments on his behalf on this very thread, particularly from RomanceDawn, have made me seriously reevaluate my opinions of him as a character, and yet... as far as him being one of the crew... I'm just... eeeeeeeeh.
lol It's cool. If anything, as much as I support and like Jimbei, I agree with your points. But I do look at his potential from a different perspective. Longass post incoming:
! > I think the biggest thing for me that's keeping me from really liking Jinbe as anything more than a supporting cast member is just that he's so, and I know this is weird considering his design, toothless.
When I think of what I really want to see in the next crewmate, I'm not just looking at the characters themselves, I'm also looking at who's already on the boat, and what kind of chemistry they would have. Whenever a new face is added to such a tight-knit group, I think they should be able to bring to the table something that nobody else has. I don't really mean in terms of abilities or fighting style or any of that, that's completely secondary and I don't care about it. Just in terms of personality, of who they are, and how we see them through the eyes of the other characters. And that's where Jinbe falls flat for me. There's no edge to him. Note when I say edge, I don't mean it the way most do, but more something intangible, that gripping element, that extra that pushes them past good and makes them great.
! While I personally care a fair bit about how each Straw Hat uniquely contributes action-wise, I definitely agree that comes second to personality and character interaction. And I do agree that at least at first glance, Jimbei has no real outstanding "edge". Which is a shame, but I don't think it's the end of the world and means he can't contribute anything meaningful. Which I will get to in response to your specific reasoning.
! > By far the biggest complaint I can bring up in this regard is that, in terms of interactions, he can pretty much only play the role of the straight man, which would be fine, except we already have at least three of those. In terms of his stoic seriousness, Zoro's already standing in his place, and as far as wisdom and knowledge are concerned, Robin and Brook both are already there. His face faults have been mentioned as a bonus for him comedically, except, wow, is your best argument for him really that he's doing the thing that another main cast member is already notable for not doing? More than that, however, he's just so… nice. Not great, not exemplary, just... nice. Harmless, might be a better word. Compared to the other characters, there's this distinct sense that Oda's not taking any risks with writing him, which is a shame, considering that those risks, even when they don't work (like Sanji's womanizing) are the spice that make the whole story come alive. The thing about nice, harmless guys is, while they may be safe for a good, chill time occasionally, they're not really the first choice for people you wanna bring along on a wild, crazy adventure, and that's pretty much the definition of what One Piece is.
! To be fair, if you're going to criticize how there are already three straight men, then I could say the same for having three perverts on the crew, Luffy, Usopp, and Chopper always acting as the naive childish members, Nami and Robin always acting apathetic to all of the boys geeing out, or Nami, Usopp, Chopper, and sometimes Brook acting as a cowardly choir of banshees. Not that this automatically makes your point of Jimbei possibly offering nothing unique mute at all or that we can't prefer not having more characters tacked on to these crews, I just wanted to point that out.
! In regards to the straight man trope, you have to understand that as a trope, it has a VERY broad range of different types of execution. Being serious and reasonable aren't really personality traits at all rather than different levels of focus and analysis. Stuff like how one is serious is characterized, from barely being emotive to constantly being paranoid to being very outwardly passionate and confrontational. Those right there are personality traits, because everybody is serious and reasonable when it comes to various things. It doesn't mean we act the same way just because we are concentrated on something. Logic and emotions having to be two separate things that can't intermingle or compliment each other is a complete fallacy.
! The reason I bring all of this up is because, like I said earlier, the straight man trope has a broad range of executions. And this is very apparent in the Straw Hats. Zoro is always badass and hardly emotive, but he's barely logical at all. Luffy and Nami frequently make fun of him for being an idiot, he's lazy and drinks all of the time, he is completely over-the-top with his training, always itches to fight strong opponents while ignoring those that are weak, has a penchant for being morbid when it comes to threats and desperation tactics, and often gets frustrated with Straw Hat antics. I wouldn't say Jimbei shares ANY of those traits.
! Robin's knowledgable, non-emotive, likes cute things, acknowledges morbid subjects, and is amused by her crew's zany antics. Jimbei shares the first two traits, but he's much more experienced when it comes to the New World and big players on the pirate side of things like the Yonko (Robin's knowledge has to mainly do with the Void Century/World Government/Revolutionary side of things in contrast. But even then, Jimbei has spent actual time working WITH the World Government, and he knew about Akainu becoming Fleet Admiral, Teach's rise to power, and even often reads newspapers to catch up with world events), and can often be VERY dedicated towards selflessness (and unlike characters such as Usopp who are weak, Jimbei would actually be one of the strongest fighters and constantly struggle to protect others as well as himself like with Luffy in Marineford), having hospitality, acting grateful Those are pretty bland traits on their own (that goes without saying), but characters like that can often shine when complimented by a cast of characters who don't share those affinities rather than being the main or sole focus.
! Brook is constantly making jokes, asking to see panties, doesn't like when people take life for granted, can be ironically terrified, often admires/envies others, and is old and knowledgable. But honestly, when it comes to the knowledgable, he hardly EVER contributes besides off-hand amusing statements about considering Roger, calling Big Mom a young lady, or shedding a bit of Wano Country info. He could have enlightened us about the history of Germa 66 in Zou and might have even had a past encounter with them, but nope, Oda wanted to settle for cheap suspense in his tension without proper payoff for his character utilization. I wish Oda would take advantage of him more both knowledge and action-wise, but he just doesn't care for it. Jimbei's different from Brook for obvious reasons.
! Even when it comes to the perverts, they all act differently in how Brook makes shameless sexual advances, Sanji tries to pull a chivalrous nice guy act and being pathetically mesmerized by them to be bound to their every will, and Franky uncomfortably lacking much clothing and grandstanding all of the time.
! And I love how you assume that my earlier comment about Jimbei's face faults was the best argument I could make for Jimbei's uniqueness lol. I agree that Jimbei's characterization seems to not be making as many "risks" as the other Straw Hats and that his main attribute is really being "nice". So when it comes to him as a character in an individual spotlight, yeah, I totally understand how lackluster he seems. I've had my own share of major gripes with characters who seem to only play a straight man role and have little-to-no individual character themselves, especially if all they do is be naive, panic in response to the protagonist or a threat, and build up courage (that sort of sounds like Usopp lol, but he is MUCH more unique as a lying everyman character than the type of supporting characters I'm talking about). Yeah, he's not the first type of eccentric guy you would want to party with. But we've had several main characters like that already. Having one that isn't like that actually helps them stand out.
! > The truly great character moments from One Piece all come from the characters not always doing the right thing, or the expected thing. They come from a solid, relatable foundation with real meaning, yes but it's the way in which they're taken to such outrageous, dramatic heights that has kept the series going for so long. I want to see characters who make mistakes, I want to see characters with big, obvious flaws, who do things that I would never expect them to do, but ultimately makes sense. I want to see them get better. And more than that, I want something different.
! To be fair, if every cast member we're used to is not open to always acting ethically or sensibly, doesn't that make a character like Jimbei help stand out even MORE? In fact, it seems that the entire point of Jimbei leaving his crew to join the Straw Hats is so that he could learn to be more selfish. And at this point of the story, that would be quite interesting to see. Especially with an experienced powerful veteran character with all sorts of major connections than, say, the cliche of having an inexperienced newbie/ fan who is a fish out of water that represents the audience by being "normal" and just wanting to help out (you have no idea how much I LOATHE those types of characters).
! I think it would be very entertaining for such a character to be gradually influenced to be more indulgently flawed by his comrades. Especially with how wacky and selfish we have known the Straw Hats to always act, and are finally becoming known throughout the world and interacting with both allies and wide territories/empires of opposition. More efficient tactics are needed more than ever, and Jimbei is the perfect representation.
! In fact, that is how I think Jimbei can stand out as a Straw Hat in the most memorable and unique fashion compared to how boring his other traits are individually. Being a tactician. Yes, we brought up how knowledgable Robin is before, but she's only good for worldbuilding exposition dumps on that front. Everyone loves Sanji's Mr. Prince antics, but he's always does those both solo and improvised. Usopp plans only in terms of preparing weapons and analyzing the behavior of his opponent Batman-style, and is proficient in deception. Franky is just a kooky inventor who lead a bunch of dismantler thugs. Brook is useless besides providing battle support or diversions. Chopper is often weak and gullible, but sometimes his medical knowledge can help out immensely like when fighting Oars and probably with Big Mom too when her illness wreaks havoc again. Both Luffy and Zoro are meatheads. Nami is the closet we've ever had to rallying everyone for teamwork, but that's mainly relegated to just ship work, and is mostly executed in a jokey bossy way where she either intimidates people or is comedically ignored.
! With Jimbei though, especially with how respected he is and having years of experience as a pirate captain/Warlord, he can actually plan out full strategies of giving crewmates and allies designated roles and missions. The likes of the Emperors, Admirals, and even Doflamingo have been pushing for the narrative to focus more on characters fulfilling specific objectives (like when it came to blowing up the SMILE factory in Dressrosa and negotiating Caesar) and acting covertly (such as with the Straw Hats trying to lay low with only a few members in order to rescue Sanji. Not to mention Brook and Pedro's Road Poneglyph espionage escapades). Law's mainly handled the reigns of this type of stuff since forming the alliance between the Straw Hat and Heart Pirates in Punk Hazard to take down Kaido, but Jimbei could easily take over that. And it falls perfectly in line with his personality, as seen when he tried to fight Luffy in order to convince him to help Fishman Island's predicament with Hody and to not rush into battle headfirst. With how Jimbei has literally saved Luffy, his future captain, a whopping FOUR times (Akainu, Luffy accepting Ace's death, the transfusion, and Big Mom's book prison), as well as being called "Boss Jimbei" frequently (even by Usopp and Chopper at the end of Fishman Island), it would make sense if he was regarded as the de facto first mate of the Straw Hats (I say "de facto" because that obviously won't be his literal position. It's most likely Helmsman, and having a first mate title would make the relationship and trust between the Straw Hats feel more biased in my opinion). At least in terms of acting as an efficient substitute captain in contrast to how Luffy is an imbecile, but meant to be the inspiring figurehead that leads the charge and takes on leaders of antagonist factions.
! In fact, HE'S ALREADY MADE A PLAN WITH THE STRAW HATS BEFORE.
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! And you see that little tidbit at the end of how Jimbei wanted to give his plan an operation title? How freaking hilarious it would be if that became a recurring gag for the Straw Hats' tactics? For an example, if he were to help devise a plan to take down Kaido at Wano Country, he could name it something as epic and random as "Operation Ouroboros" (that is a name of a symbol of a dragon eating its own tail, which would fit Kaido most likely having a Mythical eastern dragon Zoan Devil Fruit. And Kaido can probably be so impulsive and destructive like the rest of his crew that a plan meant to provoke and manipulate him would technically be Kaido "devouring" himself.
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! > A new crewmember joining shouldn't be so expected, nor should it have been so telegraphed. In Fishman Island, I was more onboard with having Jinbe on the boat. He was still kinda new then, and while the arc wasn't good, his involvement in it was, and I was ready to ride with the good Jinbe vibes. But now, after how many years of "yes, I will join the crew" and then it not happening, the thought has stopped being appealing. A new crewmate should be amazing, should wow me with something that nobody else in the story has, should sweep me off my feet and, if only for an arc or two, become my new Favorite Character Forever. That's how it's been for me every time someone new has joined thus far. Even if Jinbe joined in Fishman Island, he would have been the first time that streak was broken. Now? I'm just disappointed.
! So a crewmate joining, no, any major story moment in general being predictable is automatically bad or telegraphed? C'mon. One Piece, as creative as it can be, is a formulaic shonen story at its core. Anyone with the slightest bit of narrative comprehension knows events like Blackbeard killing Shanks is going to happen or Luffy not being strong enough to defeat Big Mom in the Totland arc. And whenever a new crewmate shows up, besides maybe Robin, it's usually VERY obvious that they're going to join just from seeing how much work Oda puts into their design alone. Even with Franky despite the initial tension between the Straw Hats and Franky Family. Surprise moments like Kaido falling out of the sky to meet the Kid Alliance is cool and all, but having major predictable moments get consistently built up can be extremely effective when investing the audience. Stories aren't always about how surprising the result is, but the journey and hurdles experienced on the way there.
! And yet you say this as if Jimbei's procedure of joining isn't unique when its been spread out for several years. Not to mention that, similar to Robin, he is a major figure in the overall narrative of One Piece that defies the typical humble beginnings/social misfit arc joining structure (and I'm talking about Robin in present time, not how she was a pariah in her Ohara flashback). Also, Jimbei joining the crew earlier than Totland NEVER made any storytelling sense with how he was a powerful Warlord and had a bounty/reputation bigger than Luffy's until after Dressrosa (which is the last arc with a Warlord antagonist. Jimbei being present would mess with Doflamingo's threat credibility by making it too underplayed or overplayed). Not to mention that Fishman Island was the first arc (unless you want to count Return to Sabaody Archipelago lol) post-timeskip where the Straw Hats had to show off their new designs and abilities, and reacclimatize the audience to their character interactions after being separated so long. Having a new member join right off the bat would have been awkward with how we haven't even gotten time to get used to how the main characters have changed and seeing the upper limits of their power with how the New Fishman Pirates were a joke.
I understand that a new crewmate not being awe-inspiring on their own is disappointing. But in terms of the story and relevance he has had, especially with Luffy, he is in his own weight class of astonishment. We have nine crew members already, and traits are bound to be somewhat repeated at this point (which they already have with Brook being a pervert and a swordsman lol). Not every character is going to sweep you off your feet. And that's okay. In such a diverse cast, that is very probable to happen. Not to say that a creator shouldn't strive to make every character appealing in their own right though. I'm sorry you're disappointed. But when evaluating Jimbei, you should acknowledge what he brings to the plot and crew dynamics rather than just as an individual character, and perhaps then you can understand why people are still hyped to see him join.I personally find Robin to be pretty boring since Thriller Bark with how she's been relegated to plot exposition and only contributes to action from the sidelines, with her non-emotive personality not helping out with that at all. But her dynamic with the rest of the Straw Hats, especially when you see moments like how she aid in Zou that she knows everybody can protect her (and how a few other crewmates blushed) still makes her endearing on a character development/interaction front.
There. I've said it. Now do your worst.
My feedback could be a lot worse. XD
Spoiler:
"Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."
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Can Jinbe save them from the book without defeating Montd'Or ?
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Can Jinbe save them from the book without defeating Montd'Or ?
That's doubtful. But I would love to see him carry it around somehow lol.
Spoiler:
"Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."
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Can Jinbe save them from the book without defeating Montd'Or ?
@Count:
That's doubtful. But I would love to see him carry it around somehow lol.
Doesn't he just need that bookmark the soldier used when Pudding wanted to visit them?
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Try out my first game! All feedback is welcome, enjoy and thanks. Heroine: Kiku
Hidden:
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@Tamiel:
Doesn't he just need that bookmark the soldier used when Pudding wanted to visit them?
…Oh yeah lol. Thank you for the reminder. I can't believe I said something as obtuse as literally carrying the book. XD
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Does Brooke fail at acquiring the Poneglyphs? Will he get all three? When the idea of Wadat..(giant fishman) following Jimbe further to Wano I thought he would carry all three of them, mainly because Luffy was against the idea of sneaking.
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If only you all knew the real story behind the handling of that character.
Once you know what happens behind the curtain there are just certain things you see in an entirely different way. Both good and…unique.
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If only you all knew the real story behind the handling of that character.
Once you know what happens behind the curtain there are just certain things you see in an entirely different way. Both good and…unique.
I can get what your saying if you mean sanji
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If only you all knew the real story behind the handling of that character.
Once you know what happens behind the curtain there are just certain things you see in an entirely different way. Both good and…unique.
What character? Is it named after a number, a dessert, a real life pirate or none of the above?
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I wonder if Greg still thinks that an alliance with Big Mom is possible with the last chapters I mean her and Pudding seem completely rotten to the core in the last chapters
Oh absolutely.
The fantastic Pudding reveal definitely altered several aspects about the ceremony I had in mind, but now things are more clear to me than ever should Oda decide to go down that path. It makes perfect sense actually. I haven't discussed it publicly but for with a few close friends, OP's assistants and Stephen but across the board the reactions have all been to the tune of, "Wow, that totally fits."
That is of, course, if Oda decides to utilize his characters that way. But if he does, I'm pretty sure I know exactly how he's going to do it. I hint a bit at it in my next column but that still won't be up for a while.
Edit: Also, hmmm…dunno if I'd use the word 'Alliance' but simply that they'd end things with Mom and the family owing them one. I think it'd be a bit OP, even at this stage, if Luffy allied with a Yonkou. Though it would be a huge feather in Luffy's hat.
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If only you all knew the real story behind the handling of that character.
Once you know what happens behind the curtain there are just certain things you see in an entirely different way. Both good and…unique.
I assume this is your answer on the question whether you still think there will be an alliance with Big Mom.
Forum user Bartholemew Bear passed away in a very moving and touching way. I, ARTEMlS, therefore carry on the Will of DArth for good unto its final fulfilment.
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No, I answered that in the above post. That was in reference to a character who has been the subject of much discussion lately.
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Yeah, you ninja'd me.
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If only you all knew the real story behind the handling of that character.
Once you know what happens behind the curtain there are just certain things you see in an entirely different way. Both good and…unique.
Naruto!
Oh absolutely.
The fantastic Pudding reveal definitely altered several aspects about the ceremony I had in mind, but now things are more clear to me than ever should Oda decide to go down that path. It makes perfect sense actually. I haven't discussed it publicly but for with a few close friends, OP's assistants and Stephen but across the board the reactions have all been to the tune of, "Wow, that totally fits."
That is of, course, if Oda decides to utilize his characters that way. But if he does, I'm pretty sure I know exactly how he's going to do it. I hint a bit at it in my next column but that still won't be up for a while.
Edit: Also, hmmm…dunno if I'd use the word 'Alliance' but simply that they'd end things with Mom and the family owing them one. I think it'd be a bit OP, even at this stage, if Luffy allied with a Yonkou. Though it would be a huge feather in Luffy's hat.
Ok, I'm curious now :ninja:
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Oh absolutely.
The fantastic Pudding reveal definitely altered several aspects about the ceremony I had in mind, but now things are more clear to me than ever should Oda decide to go down that path. It makes perfect sense actually. I haven't discussed it publicly but for with a few close friends, OP's assistants and Stephen but across the board the reactions have all been to the tune of, "Wow, that totally fits."
That is of, course, if Oda decides to utilize his characters that way. But if he does, I'm pretty sure I know exactly how he's going to do it. I hint a bit at it in my next column but that still won't be up for a while.
Edit: Also, hmmm…dunno if I'd use the word 'Alliance' but simply that they'd end things with Mom and the family owing them one. I think it'd be a bit OP, even at this stage, if Luffy allied with a Yonkou. Though it would be a huge feather in Luffy's hat.
Big mom plans to kill both luffy,nami, sanji and vinsmokes( I imagine she wants Brook and chopper alive for her book), so both vinsmokes and Straw hats are victims, they should be the ones that stick together, not end with BM and luffy deal something.
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If only you all knew the real story behind the handling of that character.
Once you know what happens behind the curtain there are just certain things you see in an entirely different way. Both good and…unique.
Any chance we will ever learn what happens behind the curtain :F? Man I hate it that you know more that all of us and then tease thing like that :P
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@uniaka:
Big mom plans to kill both luffy,nami, sanji and vinsmokes( I imagine she wants Brook and chopper alive for her book), so both vinsmokes and Straw hats are victims, they should be the ones that stick together, and not end with BM and luffy deal something.
Who said anything about a deal? lol
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@Dahaka.:
Any chance we will ever learn what happens behind the curtain :F? Man I hate it that you know more that all of us and then tease thing like that :P
It depends on Oda. He's definitely been vocal about serendipity playing a role in the series. He just never got into specifics. And I don't blame him. If you pulled off some amazing coincidence or link to your early story, you'd want fans to think it'd been arranged from the start.
Then again, Oda has also exhibited a great sense of honesty and humor when it comes to those tidbits being directly addressed like his comment regarding Luffy and 'luff'.
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Who said anything about a deal? lol
Uniaka might have gotten that from me. I've been a frequent "Big Mom doesn't go down/isn't the final arc antagonist" supporter pretty much since I've joined on this forum, and I've occasionally debated with Uniaka about Big Mom's fate. Which I always end with proclaiming that either Luffy and Big Mom for an alliance or they form some sort of arbitrary truce of some sort. The latter being some type of deal, but not something as awkward and random as having a literal tea party and polite chatter. Probably some type of exchange that has to do with Luffy playing a game with Big Mom, most likely the roulette that Pedro and Jimbei played. I've always expected Big Mom to be grateful and grow to respect the Straw Hats due to the likelihood of Chopper and Sanji likely playing a role in curing her illness (or at least alleviating it with medicine/food if it's a complex mental illness), as well as the Straw Hats inevitably stopping Bege's coup and perhaps a potential takeover from the Vinsmokes depending on how the wedding chaos and Fishman Island bombs shift power plays and what not. But I also don't see her handwaving everything without a lingering care, especially with how Brook and Pedro tried to steal her Poneglyph scriptures. Which is why a game would be perfect and still give Linlin credibility as an intimidating Yonko.
But those are just my two cents. I hope that clears things up lol. Pudding's betrayal shakes things up a bit, but nowhere near enough to change how obvious it is for Big Mom to not go down this arc.
Spoiler:
"Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."
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So is there a chapter next week or this was it?
Victim of the corrupted Arlong Park staff.
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Idk..this chapter just left a bad feeling in my mouth, so to speak. I can't put my finger on it, but for some reason I did NOT like this chapter. I felt bad for Sanji. His sadness was done well, at least. But something about Pudding's heel face turn felt off, and Jimbei to the rescue at the end just…didn't get my hyped like it should.
I did find Nami's situation amusing, but it makes me worry that she'd handle torture more poorly than I would have though, and she might even crumble to such sitautions, which worries me some for future situations. But again, I'm not sure WHAT bothers me about this chapter... just that something about it felt off.
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My take is that Pudding is working with Capone, being Pro-Lola and anti-BigMom.
Pro Lola because either her inteligence network is better than Big Moms and knew what key to push with the Strawhats and didn't sold her sister to Big Mom, or she actualy looks up to her and wants to be her own woman.
Capone just because Nitro is too similar looking to him, and that adds the link to Chiffon, who could be the link to Lola.
Big Mom betraying a marriage pact or a protection pact would put her in a very dissavantageous position to Kaido and Blackbeard, her image as the "Reasonable" and ambitious Emperor would crumble, and anyone who cared for the aliance would go to the riskier and likely stronger options.
What we know about Big Mom, that she respected her word to Luffy and keept her hands off Fishman Island after being paid, and her word to Pedro about just not killing him right there and then, and the fact that she has built this empire in the back of aliances and her word makes it very unlikely that she's betraying the Vinsmokes.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Oh oh, also her memory powers, we don't know at what age Lola escaped, if Pudding was already "of age" and she was the one that screwed up THAT marriage pact by altering Big Mom's memory because she didn't want to get married.
The diference of how Lola and Big Mom see her leaving is suspicious, it could be that Lola is as oblivious of other people's feelings as Lola the Boar was to Absalom, but considering how she moved on of 400+ other bachelors, that seems to be more of the Zombie than Lola herself.
3DS FC: 0516-7666-3837
SW-4128-8032-0729
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So is there a chapter next week or this was it?
This week's chapter was supossed to come out next week, so yeah that was it.
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The only alliance I see at the end of all of this is Pound with Big Mom, getting married again. The original, the one.
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Try out my first game! All feedback is welcome, enjoy and thanks. Heroine: Kiku
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@Tamiel:
The only alliance I see at the end of all of this is Pound with Big Mom, getting married again. The original, the one.
But Big Mom and Brook are obviously soul mates though.
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How is Pound the original one if he is only father of the 22nd daughter and Lola?
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How is Pound the original one if he is only father of the 22nd daughter and Lola?
Divide the first 2 by the second 2 and you get 1. It's all a conspiracy.
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Or, take the fact that Lola ran away so, let's says she is the 21st, you have the 22nd daughter left, so 22-21= 1, simple math.
This all means Perospero is adopted.
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Come to think of it, where did Pound go?
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@Count:
lol It's cool. If anything, as much as I support and like Jimbei, I agree with your points. But I do look at his potential from a different perspective. Longass post incoming:
These are all really good points, and on some level I actually agree with more of them, but there are a couple of specific things I want to address.
! While I do agree that characters can have similar traits yet go about them completely differently, in that light I guess what's more troubling isn't so much what we've seen from Jinbe, but what we haven't seen. While multiple members of the crew have played the straight-man role, they've also made new niches for themselves as well. Chopper wasn't the only hyperactive coward-type when he joined, but his relative youth and the fact that, at that time, he stood out as an example of the Grand Line's unique bizarreness, gave him a role to fill that no one else had. As a more recent example, many of Brook's quirks and traits (like the ones you've mentioned) are things he already shares with his crewmates, but his own unique traits, along with his very particular kind of manic, trapped-on-a-boat-for-fifty-years mannerisms make him stand out. By contrast, Jinbe mostly feels comprised of different traits that other characters already have, and in this point of the story, we've seen enough of Oda's talent for variety to know that there are certain qualities that still haven't been introduced to the Straw Hat dynamic, that could potentially shake up their interactions far more.
! It's probably true that there's still more to Jinbe's potential that hasn't been seen yet, but at the same time, we've already seen far more of him at this point than we've had of any other member of the main cast before they officially joined. If he was still in the process of being introduced, I would have given him more of a chance than this, but right now, there's shockingly little to actually go off of.
! > And I love how you assume that my earlier comment about Jimbei's face faults was the best argument I could make for Jimbei's uniqueness lol.
! That wasn't so much a direct statement about you, as much as it was me observing that it's the one argument I keep seeing come up again and again regarding this subject. Mostly, while yes, there are things like his funny faces and the plan-names gag that make him stand out, but only on the surface level. It's when you analyze him a bit different, that the general toothlessness that I mentioned in my last post becomes more of a glaring issue.
! > So a crewmate joining, no, any major story moment in general being predictable is automatically bad or telegraphed? C'mon. One Piece, as creative as it can be, is a formulaic shonen story at its core. Anyone with the slightest bit of narrative comprehension knows events like Blackbeard killing Shanks is going to happen or Luffy not being strong enough to defeat Big Mom in the Totland arc. And whenever a new crewmate shows up, besides maybe Robin, it's usually VERY obvious that they're going to join just from seeing how much work Oda puts into their design alone.
! Yes, formula and structure are both incredibly present in One Piece, and can and have been used to powerful effect. But at the same time, playing with and twisting the expectations that those structures present is another piece of the writer's toolbox. In a very Storytelling 101 sense, yes, One Piece's wider plot does adhere to the conventional Hero's Journey/Epic outline. However, it's in the smaller details that Oda has proved himself most playful, and has been outright subversive at times. As a rule, I tend to be wary of "set in stone" predictions that rely too heavily on the assumption that all other elements will stay exactly the same in the meantime. And yes, a promise made that has been dragged out too long does become stale, without something else to keep it new. The moment a Straw Hat joins the crew should be, by itself, powerful. Jinbe had a powerful moment, but then didn't join. So either something even bigger is going to happen (which at this point would require yet another bait-and-switch) or Oda is setting up our expectations to be twisted even further.
! > Also, Jimbei joining the crew earlier than Totland NEVER made any storytelling sense with how he was a powerful Warlord and had a bounty/reputation bigger than Luffy's until after Dressrosa (which is the last arc with a Warlord antagonist. Jimbei being present would mess with Doflamingo's threat credibility by making it too underplayed or overplayed). Not to mention that Fishman Island was the first arc (unless you want to count Return to Sabaody Archipelago lol) post-timeskip where the Straw Hats had to show off their new designs and abilities, and reacclimatize the audience to their character interactions after being separated so long. Having a new member join right off the bat would have been awkward with how we haven't even gotten time to get used to how the main characters have changed and seeing the upper limits of their power with how the New Fishman Pirates were a joke.
! Except, by the time Dressrosa happened, Doflamingo being a Warlord wasn't what made him threatening. By that point, Luffy had already beaten Warlords, befriended Warlords, and beaten AND befriended Warlords. What made Doflamingo threatening was more his specific position as this underground puppetmaster (ba-dum-tssh). And by Fishman Island, Jinbe was present enough in Luffy's story to have him feel natural as one of the main group… if he had stayed that way. The fact that he didn't, and that his own storyline diverged so heavily from everyone else at that moment, both takes away from his hype, and makes him feel seperate from the core group, both of which would now be really hard to fix.
! > I personally find Robin to be pretty boring since Thriller Bark with how she's been relegated to plot exposition and only contributes to action from the sidelines, with her non-emotive personality not helping out with that at all. But her dynamic with the rest of the Straw Hats, especially when you see moments like how she aid in Zou that she knows everybody can protect her (and how a few other crewmates blushed) still makes her endearing on a character development/interaction front.
! This is a really solid point. I don't really have anything else to add to this, -
@S.C.:
Come to think of it, where did Pound go?
He stayed in the woods.
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These are all really good points, and on some level I actually agree with more of them, but there are a couple of specific things I want to address.
! > While I do agree that characters can have similar traits yet go about them completely differently, in that light I guess what's more troubling isn't so much what we've seen from Jinbe, but what we haven't seen. While multiple members of the crew have played the straight-man role, they've also made new niches for themselves as well. Chopper wasn't the only hyperactive coward-type when he joined, but his relative youth and the fact that, at that time, he stood out as an example of the Grand Line's unique bizarreness, gave him a role to fill that no one else had. As a more recent example, many of Brook's quirks and traits (like the ones you've mentioned) are things he already shares with his crewmates, but his own unique traits, along with his very particular kind of manic, trapped-on-a-boat-for-fifty-years mannerisms make him stand out. By contrast, Jinbe mostly feels comprised of different traits that other characters already have, and in this point of the story, we've seen enough of Oda's talent for variety to know that there are certain qualities that still haven't been introduced to the Straw Hat dynamic, that could potentially shake up their interactions far more.
! I definitely get what you mean. Even I noticed while I was typing out my response how I often talked about potential possibilities rather than actual things we've seen. And for a character who has been built up for this long, that can be very concerning. I think Oda can try to emphasize the parts of Jimbei that focus around being honor bound and respectful, especially in terms of acting diplomatic in comparison to how bullheaded or intimidated the other members of the main cast may be. But there can certainly be more on that front to make for an interesting character.
! > It's probably true that there's still more to Jinbe's potential that hasn't been seen yet, but at the same time, we've already seen far more of him at this point than we've had of any other member of the main cast before they officially joined. If he was still in the process of being introduced, I would have given him more of a chance than this, but right now, there's shockingly little to actually go off of.
! Hopefully the rest of this arc covers that. With how quickly the tides are turning for the Straw Hats before the wedding, I can see everybody reconvening in the Mirror World and making some type of plan to enact for the wedding. Which would thus allow for more memorable character interaction, especially on Jimbei's front. The only tricky part is how Brook and Pedro are going to escape their current situations while still getting the Poneglyph scripts.
! > That wasn't so much a direct statement about you, as much as it was me observing that it's the one argument I keep seeing come up again and again regarding this subject. Mostly, while yes, there are things like his funny faces and the plan-names gag that make him stand out, but only on the surface level. It's when you analyze him a bit different, that the general toothlessness that I mentioned in my last post becomes more of a glaring issue.
! I apologize if that seemed like a condescending or hostile response. It's just that I was the only one who brought that up in the thread lol, but I've seen other people occasionally mention it too. You're absolutely right that it's just a superficial, transient feature. That would be like thinking Robin's a good character solely because she has humorous thoughts about cute things every once in a blue moon.
! > Yes, formula and structure are both incredibly present in One Piece, and can and have been used to powerful effect. But at the same time, playing with and twisting the expectations that those structures present is another piece of the writer's toolbox. In a very Storytelling 101 sense, yes, One Piece's wider plot does adhere to the conventional Hero's Journey/Epic outline. However, it's in the smaller details that Oda has proved himself most playful, and has been outright subversive at times. As a rule, I tend to be wary of "set in stone" predictions that rely too heavily on the assumption that all other elements will stay exactly the same in the meantime. And yes, a promise made that has been dragged out too long does become stale, without something else to keep it new. The moment a Straw Hat joins the crew should be, by itself, powerful. Jinbe had a powerful moment, but then didn't join. So either something even bigger is going to happen (which at this point would require yet another bait-and-switch) or Oda is setting up our expectations to be twisted even further.
! Actually One Piece isn't really the type of series that I would say fits into the Hero's Journey style of plot progression to well. But that's a whole other type of discussion lol.
! Theories that have to rely on EVERYTHING else being predictable can of course be faulty. But there are often times where have no idea how something will be executed, but know it will happen and be right. You're right that Oda loves to play around with the smaller details and twist structure conventions on their head, like revealing Pudding's true nature compared to how we're used to princesses and the like aiding our main characters. But Jimbei joining is not a small thing exclusively related to one arc at all. It's a significant part of the story, moreso than any other Straw Hat. And Jimbei's promise, in my perspective, hardly became stale. It's only been a few arcs, and he's been kept relevant in two cover stories. And this is the first time we ever had this sort of thing with a Straw Hat too, which helped keep up suspense as the New World kept setting up more ambitious dominoes to intricately fall into place. If Jimbei's joining were to be delayed again, THEN it would lose its luster and even become a bit distasteful. And regarding promises in general, it's not like Luffy's promise to return the Straw Hat and Zoro's vow to defeat Mihawk have dulled their meaning that much (although they'll get a lot more traction when the Blackbeard Pirates show up to give the Red Hairs, and the Straw Hats indirectly, one rude awakening…)
! But now I understand what you meant better. You basically have the complaint of the transfusion scene being unlikely to be topped, which I have seen from several other users (including Daz in this thread). And I would include myself in that group as well. Jimbei randomly showing up in the latest chapter, while cool, still felt like such an afterthought in the midst of what's been going on this arc that it seems unlikely for his presence to make a major impression spotlight-wise. But I'm more than willing to give Oda the benefit of the doubt after teasing his joint for so damn long.
! > Except, by the time Dressrosa happened, Doflamingo being a Warlord wasn't what made him threatening. By that point, Luffy had already beaten Warlords, befriended Warlords, and beaten AND befriended Warlords. What made Doflamingo threatening was more his specific position as this underground puppetmaster (ba-dum-tssh). And by Fishman Island, Jinbe was present enough in Luffy's story to have him feel natural as one of the main group… if he had stayed that way. The fact that he didn't, and that his own storyline diverged so heavily from everyone else at that moment, both takes away from his hype, and makes him feel seperate from the core group, both of which would now be really hard to fix.
! Doflamingo of course had a lot of things going for him than just being the next Warlord to take out. Especially with how much his character was built up since Jaya. But in the end, he was still a Warlord. And just because Luffy previously defeated or allied with other Warlords doesn't majorly inhibit the impression of the others that much. Law was a Warlord for a while, but we also recognize him as one of the Worst Generation. A rival/equal to Luffy. And one of the Warlords includes Mihawk, who is obviously up the ladder. You would have a point if we were talking about a power like the Yonko or Admirals where they are roughly in the same weight class and frequently stalemate each other, but the Shichibukai are a whole totem pole of various strength levels and resources. So a Warlord, despite not being as grand as a Yonko or Admiral, was still a legitimate threat at the time. Luffy needing two ex-Warlords alongside him to beat one would have just been awkward tension-wise. Nowadays though since Zou, somebody of that faction like Weevil is obviously a sideshow despite his ominous streak of destruction.
! Jimbei might have felt natural in the group, but the issue is that the post-timeskip Straw Hats themselves didn't feel natural yet after just one arc. If that makes sense. We needed more time to focus on them to see how they're changed both internally and externally, as well as start making a name for themselves by using all of the progress they've gained over the timeskip than immediately gaining a power as huge as Jimbei to help them out right from the get-go. Jimbei refusing to join didn't take away from his hype, because there wasn't that much established hype to begin with. His standing in the One Piece world up until Fishman Island made his potential as a crewmate uncertain, and Fishman Island was the first arc post-timeskip and was mainly used to set-up future plot threads. If anything, Jimbei's delayed joining helped hype up Big Mom and made us feel concerned about his fate of maintaining his connection with the core group. We knew Jimbei was a different ballgame form the get go, which is why the process of his joining hitting it out of the ballpark in terms of length and expectations is completely tolerable. How his personality and character dynamics fit are something else entirely though.
! > This is a really solid point. I don't really have anything else to add to this,
! It doesn't help that has a broken fruit that either makes battles too easy or too contextually convoluted most of the time lol. I try to cut Oda some slack on that front when I think of Robin's lack of fights, but then I have to wonder why he assigned her such a power in the first place if it would be that problematic. -
@S.C.:
Come to think of it, where did Pound go?
He wanted to see Chiffon. Probably he is with her.
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@S.C.:
Come to think of it, where did Pound go?
I wanna know too! He must be much more than just a directions stand character! He's the father of Lola, a great piece in the arc, more info must be given.
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Pound must have gone drink some Apple Juice.
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Sanji isn't going to kick Pudding. That would be completely out of character. Sanji doesn't hurt women, period, even if it kills him. After all that he's been through during the series, Sanji isn't going to break and start kicking women now just because one deeply hurt him personally. That would be pretty selfish and hypocritical from him. Sanji's better than that.
I disagree.
I think the entire point of this arc is for Sanji to begin to act out of character and transition into something new. At this moment he has nothing, and no one to turn to. He's forgone his crew and his dream just to protect his friends, and goes further than that to claim that Pudding is his only ray of hope in the world. In previous scenes we see him heart eyed and yelling Pudding-Tswaaaan, only to be crushed once again. Pudding even drives it home further by making fun of his exact expressions and sayings, mocking his character. Sanji can't catch a break, and imo he's now at his lowest point that he's going to be reminded of who he really is regarding what he believes in and his dreams. Sanji has to start thinking for himself, because it's this pure selflessness he acquired from wanting to please the people who treated him good in his life and the small mannerisms he picked up from Zeff that have hurt him again and again.
This doesn't mean that Sanji is going to start beating women and treating them like crap, but maybe when his life or the life of his friends is on the line he'll pick the right choice. I'm not saying he's going to kick her out of revenge, but that he'll kick her in the heat of the moment at this arc's climax.
It's like that one quote from Avatar, if you've seen the show that's like: "When we're at our lowest point, we are open to the greatest change."
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I'm pretty sure Sanji will find a way that does not need for him to kick a woman.
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There's also no reason for Sanji to kick Pudding, given that she is going to kill him and not his crewmates. Kicking her during the ceremony would just lead to a wtf reaction from both his family and Big Mom, and probably lead to Zeff's death. Doing so before the ceremony would probably have the same results as well. Instead, he needs to find a way where he can expose Pudding's deception, and even so, it's going to be quite the tricky path because he's directly in the middle of a brewing conflict between two organizations he doesn't like that will directly affect him and his crew. We shall see what he comes up with, and also how Jinbe will affect matters going forward.
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Seriously, Sanji isn't going to hit Pudding. It would be out of character and destroy the reinforcement of the recap flashbacks we had of his training with zeff about such. Sanji most likely will have a plan that will upset her scheme. It's more his style, he will help the Vinsmokes, this will no doubt get him and zeff out of their hold. This is his avenue out of here and back to the SH's. Now if Oda had some pearls [which he doesn't] he would have Sanji kick the teeth out of pudding for being evil alone. She is no lady but a wayward dame. Pudding will be for a Nami or Reiju and Luffy will save the day getting most of the glory even thought this is suppose to be a Sanji arc.
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I've seen afew posters around here predict when all is said and done, Reiju was going to somehow replace her father as the leader of the Germa Kingdom. I was never a fan of that theory, but I wasn't against it either. After this chapter the idea of her being rewarded isn't one I can get behind.
In the past, Reiju admitted the reason she wouldn't stick up for Sanji, was because she didn't want to suffer at the hands of her brothers as Sanji did. Crappy reason, but understandable atleast, she was a child when she told Sanji that afterall. In the present, in this very chapter, Reiju's brothers are nowhere in sight, so they can't be used as a scapegoat. If there was going to be a reconciliation with Sanji, this chapter would've been a good spot to plant that seed. Now i'm not saying she had to defend Sanji's honor. An indication that Sanji being ridiculed bothers her would have been enough. Pudding even sets her up for it, asking Reiju why she doesn't have anything to say while she mocks her brother in front of her. But all Reiju does is sit there quietly, I don't get the impression she's intended to be a sympathetic character at all. On that note, I appreciated that there wasn't any pressure to feel bad for her even though she's injured.
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@Count:
Why would it break the narrative flow of the story? If anything, Jimbei joining now makes the most sense to being a former Shichibukai that would have disrupted the power structure of the crew before.
Because Brook was the last nakama to join.. and that was many, many years ago, during the first half of the series. Once we hit that timeskip, we entered another phase of the narrative. They have not gained a single new member since the timeskip, nor should they, because it's not so much about them meeting new friends/becoming stronger anymore, but making alliances and taking down big people (Doflamingo, Big Mom, Kaido, etc). The story has to wrap up. We're already comfortable with the current Strawhats; having to pause the flow so we can get used to some new member would be backtracking. And no matter how you paint it, Jinbe is still a stranger.
If Oda was REALLY serious about him being a Strawhat, he could have (at the absolute latest) joined during the Fishman Arc. Instead we got some lame excuse and a promise to join them later or whatever. Same thing that happened with Vivi. It's not happening.
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@Miss:
Because Brook was the last nakama to join.. and that was many, many years ago, during the first half of the series. Once we hit that timeskip, we entered another phase of the narrative. They have not gained a single new member since the timeskip, nor should they, because it's not so much about them meeting new friends/becoming stronger anymore, but making alliances and taking down big people (Doflamingo, Big Mom, Kaido, etc). The story has to wrap up. We're already comfortable with the current Strawhats; having to pause the flow so we can get used to some new member would be backtracking. And no matter how you paint it, Jinbe is still a stranger.
If Oda was REALLY serious about him being a Strawhat, he could have (at the absolute latest) joined during the Fishman Arc. Instead we got some lame excuse and a promise to join them later or whatever. Same thing that happened with Vivi. It's not happening.You might have had a point if Jinbe randomly popped up in the New World and got absolutely no development; I'm not opposed to characters introduced in the New World that get good development before becoming Straw Hats, for that matter.
Jinbe's history with Luffy in Impel Down and Marineford should cement that he's not just some extraneous add-on. He was a friend to Ace, became allies with Luffy after seeing Luffy's determination to reach his brother, and towards the end of the arc cemented the bond by putting his life on the line to get Luffy to safety. Plus, he was the one to set Luffy straight again when Luffy was essentially non-functioning after Ace's death. If that isn't a thorougly developed bond, within the span of 50 chapters no less, I don't know what is. And does he really need to have a similar experience with the Straw Hats to prove himself as a member of the crew? I mean, Brook showed up out of nowhere at the beginning of Thriller Bark, immediately agreed to join the crew after being asked simply because he was a skeleton and that he pooped, interacted with the Straw Hats here and there with his role mostly being exposition to the shadow stealing plot, got a sad backstory at the end of the arc, and everyone's OK with him. Jinbe fought alongside the Straw Hats at Fishman Island and interacted with them just fine, so him joining isn't gonna be like a stranger joining, which Brook kind of still was at the end of Thriller Bark despite his connection to Laboon. And him putting off his commitment to join the crew to take care of business with Big Mom wasn't a "lame excuse", it was simply a natural part of the intertwined plot between Big Mom and Fishman Island that had been revealed all throughout the arc. While Totto Land has its own plotlines, it's also continuing on various things that Fishman Island setup, including the Tamatebako and the whole thing with Fishman Island moving in a new direction and her being a pretty bad protector of it.
So, in short, Jinbe joining the crew does not throw anything off because his relationship with the crew began in Impel Down and was developed clear as day in ID, Marineford, and Fishman Island. You seem to have put a lot of that stuff in the back of your head due to the current alliance ongoing, but you should know that multiple huge plotlines are being handled quite well. They may be so huge that Oda's been forced to sideline plot elements for long periods of time, but Oda's proven capable of gracefully returning to them, as was shown with the Curly Hats appearing on Zou after 60 chapters. Heck, the alliance/Kaido plot is being sidelined right now, but no one's worrying about that. So the time spent between Fishman Island and Totto Land hasn't caused Jinbe to lose his appeal, it's just a natural part of the plot that's going on.
Also, even if Jinbe joining was rather abrupt, why would that matter? Robin, a main antagonist-turned betrayee that ultimately didn't receive a whole lot of screentime, joined the crew out of nowhere. The Straw Hats weren't actively looking for a musician at the time, and as stated before ran into Brook out of nowhere. It's what happens AFTER that counts, and seeing as how Jinbe has had by far the most screentime before joining the crew, I'm excited to see what he'll have to offer once he finally joins.
Spoiler:
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@Kaido:
There's also no reason for Sanji to kick Pudding, given that she is going to kill him and not his crewmates. Kicking her during the ceremony would just lead to a wtf reaction from both his family and Big Mom, and probably lead to Zeff's death. Doing so before the ceremony would probably have the same results as well. Instead, he needs to find a way where he can expose Pudding's deception, and even so, it's going to be quite the tricky path because he's directly in the middle of a brewing conflict between two organizations he doesn't like that will directly affect him and his crew. We shall see what he comes up with, and also how Jinbe will affect matters going forward.
I'm not talking about Sanji randomly turning around and kicking Pudding out of nowhere. I'm talking about in the heat of the moment, a battle, a confrontation, he'll attack back. Exposing her deception isn't mutually exclusive to her fighting Sanji in any way.
Seriously, Sanji isn't going to hit Pudding. It would be out of character and destroy the reinforcement of the recap flashbacks we had of his training with zeff about such. Sanji most likely will have a plan that will upset her scheme. It's more his style, he will help the Vinsmokes, this will no doubt get him and zeff out of their hold. This is his avenue out of here and back to the SH's. Now if Oda had some pearls [which he doesn't] he would have Sanji kick the teeth out of pudding for being evil alone. She is no lady but a wayward dame. Pudding will be for a Nami or Reiju and Luffy will save the day getting most of the glory even thought this is suppose to be a Sanji arc.
But that's the whole point of this arc. The flashbacks show who Sanji has become, but look at him now. He's broken and discarded all the things that make him happy for the sake of saving his friends and Zeff. What more can he do? Watch everyone die while Pudding and Big Mom go to town? C'mon.
I seriously think Oda is going for a massive character change in Sanji with this arc. At the end of it all, Sanji is going to be his own person with his own dreams that will support his friends the way he wants to and not because of chivalry or some righteous sense of selflessness he never developed for himself. As for Sanji kicking Pudding, see above. I think it's entirely reasonable for them to have a standoff before this all ends.
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@Kaido:
So, in short, Jinbe joining the crew does not throw anything off because his relationship with the crew began in Impel Down and was developed clear as day in ID, Marineford, and Fishman Island.
Jinbe didn't get any actual Strawhat "bonding"/serious interactions until Fishman Island. ID and Marineford was nonstop fighting next to Luffy; they were about as "bonded" as Ivankov was with Luffy. He got some sorta(??) emotional/expository flashbacks through Otohime's thing, but I wouldn't really say that explains a lot or gives him much motive. True, Brook had a lot less motive to join at first, but his stuff in TB at least set him in the right path. At the end of the day I just don't think he's as close to them as you see them, but that's my opinion.
I just don't see any reason why, if Oda was serious about Jinbe joining them, he couldn't have had him tag along after Fishman Island. He could have gone with them to Dressrosa and that would have been a good testing ground for them. Hell, freakin' Ceasar Clown has had more "bonding" with the Strawhats than Jinbe has at this point. He stuck around. Law stuck around. The 3 samurai that have done nothing up to this point stuck around. The furries stuck around. Why not Jinbe? Again, it just seems like a lot of teasing and setting up for something that could have easily already happened if it was meant to happen.
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@Miss:
Because Brook was the last nakama to join.. and that was many, many years ago, during the first half of the series. Once we hit that timeskip, we entered another phase of the narrative. They have not gained a single new member since the timeskip, nor should they, because it's not so much about them meeting new friends/becoming stronger anymore, but making alliances and taking down big people (Doflamingo, Big Mom, Kaido, etc). The story has to wrap up. We're already comfortable with the current Strawhats; having to pause the flow so we can get used to some new member would be backtracking. And no matter how you paint it, Jinbe is still a stranger.
If Oda was REALLY serious about him being a Strawhat, he could have (at the absolute latest) joined during the Fishman Arc. Instead we got some lame excuse and a promise to join them later or whatever. Same thing that happened with Vivi. It's not happening.So you don't think that Jimbei, a former Warlord, would not help give the Straw Hats support to take down big people? Especially when Luffy stalemated with who was probably the second weakest Sweet General and needed Nami to help him win? AND needed Jimbei to save his life for a FOURTH time? Also, the story has at least ten years before wrapping up. In fact, we're still arguably in the second act of this series. Just because it's been years since we've had a new main character doesn't suddenly make the merit of a new one joining null.
And this is different from Vivi, because she outright refused to go by finding her dream in being a benevolent ruler to her country. Jimbei had business to take care of. It wasn't a lame excuse, it played directly into the growing plot thread that is the Big Mom Pirates, whose plot is directly tied to Fishman Island besides just Jimbei with Luffy declaring war against Linlin there as well as the Fishman Island bombs most likely playing a role in ruining the wedding.
I'm not going to go into more specifics with the rest about how "Jinbe is still a stranger" because King of the Beasts already covered me.
@Miss:
Jinbe didn't get any actual Strawhat "bonding"/serious interactions until Fishman Island. ID and Marineford was nonstop fighting next to Luffy; they were about as "bonded" as Ivankov was with Luffy. He got some sorta(??) emotional/expository flashbacks through Otohime's thing, but I wouldn't really say that explains a lot or gives him much motive. True, Brook had a lot less motive to join at first, but his stuff in TB at least set him in the right path. At the end of the day I just don't think he's as close to them as you see them, but that's my opinion.
I just don't see any reason why, if Oda was serious about Jinbe joining them, he couldn't have had him tag along after Fishman Island. He could have gone with them to Dressrosa and that would have been a good testing ground for them. Hell, freakin' Ceasar Clown has had more "bonding" with the Strawhats than Jinbe has at this point. He stuck around. Law stuck around. The 3 samurai that have done nothing up to this point stuck around. The furries stuck around. Why not Jinbe? Again, it just seems like a lot of teasing and setting up for something that could have easily already happened if it was meant to happen.
So you don't think that Jimbei taking responsibility for letting Arlong roam around East Blue in front of Nami wasn't memorable crewmate bonding? Or his team-up with Sanji against Wadatsumi? When Sanji joined, Zoro, Nami, and Usopp left before the Krieg Pirates were fought. When Chopper joined, he only interacted with Luffy, Sanji, and Nami in Drum Kingdom. And Robin's introduction speaks for itself. And what's the issue with Jimbei not bonding with the Straw Hats until Fishman Island? Is there some sort of prerogative for the first arc a potential crewmate shows up to need to hang out with the whole crew in the very first arc they appear in? I agree that they should probably spend some time with the Straw Hats before joining, but that doesn't mean it has to be right around when they're introduced. Especially for a character like Jimbei who is so major in the story compared to everybody else and was name-dropped all the way since Arlong Park.
The problem is that Dressrosa (and Punk Hazard) were good testing grounds for the post-timeskip Straw Hats themselves. We never got to see them start showing off instances of their true capabilities and actually struggle with opponents until then after reuniting. Adding a Warlord into their mix, especially in an arc where a Warlord was also the main antagonist, would have greatly reduced the tension and spotlight needed for the Straw Hats. So yeah, I would say that Jimbei had more narrative reasoning to not tag along yet compared to allies who are going to break away right after Wano Country until the Final War. Law was needed for Dressrosa due to his history with Doflamingo. The samurai were needed in order to build up the mystery behind Wano Country, Kaido, and how Doflamingo is connected. Caesar is needed because of his connection to the SMILEs that make him connected to Doflamingo and Kaido, as well as his Gigantification experiments being tied to Big Mom.
Name ONE essential thing about Dressrosa or Punk Hazard that needed Jimbei around for their plots other than coincidentally being a Warlord like Doffy or being chummy buddies with the Straw Hats. His plot was established to be tied to Big Mom, and it was obvious that he would reappear when Big Mom became a focus in the story again. Which has already happened.
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Jinbe is the character who had the biggest number of chapters between his name dropping and his formal introduction so it is perfectly normal he takes the longest to join…
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And don't forget it was Jinbe who gave Luffy back hope and determination after his mental breakdown in Marineford.
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