Thus his scientific eruption.
Dr. Stone
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Thus his scientific eruption.
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Japanese Youth tend to get a lot more visual erection-jokes than in our comparable media in the US.
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I enjoyed the representation of the metals with different avatars.
My fav part of the chapter
…I'm tempted to make little sculpts of them, though it'd be a lot better if they could be made out of those specific elements. -
TUNGSTEN-HYPE !!!
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Geez, why are people so bothered by a bit of fanservice nowadays. And in the cover, no less.
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Geez, why are people so bothered by a bit of fanservice nowadays. And in the cover, no less.
Sure, don't read the comments. That sure will advance the discussion.
Fanservice as a whole is its own conversation, but right now we're just looking at the bad anatomy and weirdly modern clothing choices (plus the general buggy and uncomfortable-looking WOO MAN faces).
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I understand the anatomy part, but the clothing choice is just a liberty the author took to draw something gaudy for the cover. The faces, uh… I don't even know what is that WOO MAN thing you say.
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This post is deleted!
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I understand the anatomy part, but the clothing choice is just a liberty the author took to draw something gaudy for the cover. The faces, uh… I don't even know what is that WOO MAN thing you say.
His female characters were always a bit weird, but I could never quite put my finger on it.
In Sun Ken Rock and Origin I thought it was the way he drew lips for some reason, but in Dr. Stone they don't have any and they still look odd.
I honestly have no idea what it is. -
His female characters were always a bit weird, but I could never quite put my finger on it.In Sun Ken Rock and Origin I thought it was the way he drew lips for some reason, but in Dr. Stone they don't have any and they still look odd.I honestly have no idea what it is.
For me it's their bug eyes and small mouth, as well as their bodies. It's hard to explain, but it's like each body part is seperate and doesn't come together as a whole. Hyung tae kim is another artist with the same quality. There's something uncanny about the art. By comparison, Oda draws women with similar proportions but they rarely feel as uncanny.
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They have fairly featureless doll faces. Kinda like Cupie Dolls. The bathing suits wouldn't be a major problem if they didn't look strangely modern.
Girl on the left has her further shoulder back but we see the boob on that side somehow. At any rate. Aside from random fan service this series is weirdly wholesome and fairly good natured. It has it's charms.
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Vacuum Tuuuube!
Electric Wiriiiiiing!
Plastic!
https://jaiminisbox.com/reader/read/dr-stone/en/0/58/page/1 -
We really should try this science thing in RL.
https://readms.net/r/dr_stone/059/5097/1 -
It's unfortunate they didn't namecheck the piezoelectric effect. Stuff is pretty simple, but really cool.
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Dropped the series. Just don't feel like reading it anymore. Perfect characters just keeps performing their superhuman feats with no contest whatsoever.
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Yes that was the premise of the series we've known from the beginning.
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What are those two crazy cats up to this time?
Something to do with voicemail or a faked phone conversation, methinks.
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Yes that was the premise of the series we've known from the beginning.
I want to know if I'm missing something. I don't understand the appeal in reading this. Is it meant to entice to study and improve by presenting story where characters are are turning hopeless situation upside down through sheer ability? It skips the entire process of getting there, it takes struggle and effort to get good. Also there seems to be great deal of luck involved in moving the story forward, as they miraculaously finds the right materials and are able to build any tools neccesary.
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If they're talking about actual religious sacrilege, then imitating the voice of god comes to mind.
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Oho, that sounds interesting. But how would that work on Tsukasa's people…?
Convince them that the stoning was divine retribution or something? Actually, that fits pretty well with the use of a religious statue for imagery, heh.
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If they're talking about actual religious sacrilege, then imitating the voice of god comes to mind.
Since they're making the point that Tsukasa's army is familiar with those songs (and actually is familiar with technology and all that), can't see that working; they're aware of sound transmission and radio and all that.
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I want to know if I'm missing something. I don't understand the appeal in reading this. Is it meant to entice to study and improve by presenting story where characters are are turning hopeless situation upside down through sheer ability? It skips the entire process of getting there, it takes struggle and effort to get good. Also there seems to be great deal of luck involved in moving the story forward, as they miraculaously finds the right materials and are able to build any tools neccesary.
The appeal is something like a video game. We're watching how quickly we could recover from nothing to civilization with all the knowledge of modern science and effective manpower. It's fun seeing them progress like RPG characters (often with narrative devices and art building on that feeling) and watching what puzzles they face and how they solve them. The page to page tension isn't about whether or not they'll solve a problem, but how. Plus, I'm a materials science guy with an engineering background, so it's pretty fun watching them explain and apply all sorts of scientific principles to their developing tech. From a STEM point of view, it's an entertaining read.
A lot of it is convenient, but not impossible. The most convenient thing is Senku's impossibly expansive knowledge of all science and technology (plus other characters pushing human skill to the limits in one particular way, each), but again that's sort of the premise and central conceit of the series, which is why I find it an odd criticism to bring out so far into it.
It's not a perfect series, and you're right when you say that perfect characters and a lot of reliance on luck makes for some shoddy storytelling. The drama and characters are pretty weak in general, and it falls prey to a lot of shonen tropiness, but that stuff was never the appeal of the series and the author hasn't been focusing on that. Now it might be a problem in the future, and I'm not sure where we'll go once Tsukasa's been dealt with (or if he'll still be the final boss somehow), but the series definitely hits its stride when it's working through all the development of civilization stuff.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Since they're making the point that Tsukasa's army is familiar with those songs (and actually is familiar with technology and all that), can't see that working; they're aware of sound transmission and radio and all that.
Yeah you're right, but I'm just working off Occam's Razor here. All the religious talk seemed very specific, so I figure it has to be relevant.
If I had to guess, use the mass petrification as leverage for a voice of god thing. If any of them are familiar with bible stories, they might know about Lot's wife turning into a pillar of salt when looking back at the destruction of Sodom. Sometimes god just mineralizes people, I guess. And without any better explanation for the stone thing (which even Senku hasn't figured out), it might hold some sway.
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I want to know if I'm missing something. I don't understand the appeal in reading this. Is it meant to entice to study and improve by presenting story where characters are are turning hopeless situation upside down through sheer ability? It skips the entire process of getting there, it takes struggle and effort to get good. Also there seems to be great deal of luck involved in moving the story forward, as they miraculaously finds the right materials and are able to build any tools neccesary.
much like shokugeki no souma was entertaining because of the cooking, this one is entertaining becaue of the science..the characters are flat and repetitive, but they always have
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The village location, in japan with very little ammount of big predators, other than the random lion colony that escaped from the zoo who knows how many years ago, was very likelly chosen by the astronauts to be near enough useful mineral deposits for Senku to use. The volcano thing must have existed originally, and there is a big chance that at least one of them was aware of important mineral deposits on japan.
Where exactly is Ishigami village?
There are currently 11 tungsten mines in japan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mines_in_Japan
Hell, they don't even have to remember it, if they thought of the plan before internet died, they could have just looked for it.
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The appeal is something like a video game. We're watching how quickly we could recover from nothing to civilization with all the knowledge of modern science and effective manpower. It's fun seeing them progress like RPG characters (often with narrative devices and art building on that feeling) and watching what puzzles they face and how they solve them. The page to page tension isn't about whether or not they'll solve a problem, but how. Plus, I'm a materials science guy with an engineering background, so it's pretty fun watching them explain and apply all sorts of scientific principles to their developing tech. From a STEM point of view, it's an entertaining read.
I don't think that story beign akin to video games is a good thing. Makes story to feel artificial and fake, makes it feel less alive. While during traditional storytelling interactivity comes from you interpreting information you receive as you please with full control and scale of your imagination, in contrast videogames are focused on limited set of real time/turn based interactions. In other words, videogames as a medium is a terrible source to draw inspiration from for writing a story, because story in videogames is tailored to feed that gameplay loop, not imagination.
I do find appealing to start things anew from a blank slate, but that's if I see possibility on things improving this time. I don't find this aspect appealing in Dr.Stone, because the ulitimate goal is not to improve the world, but to just get it back to somewhat decent state, somewhat similiar to how it was before the mass extinction. Rather, what I find far more appealing is the new possibilities this stonification incident might have brought. However the extent to what it went was just pulling over the blank slate and nothing else so far, other than beign used as tool to conveniently recruit people.
The appeal in problem solving to me lies within reality. I'd prefer learning things for real- right now and myself. Like now when I'm writing this piece, I'm trying to figure out things I don't understand about human condition. To me it's far more appealing and engaging than watching Senku invent a lightbulb that I have dozens of already in the house. On that note, there is so much to learn and things that I don't know, so I've grown to be more picky than just stay interested in anything I see.
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One of the problems with the world today is that literally no one knows how to make a pencil from scratch. That no one can make something so simple and yet so vital to modern society is kind of astonishing… but it also shows just how ripe our civilization has become for an apocalypse. Current technology is so desperately dependent on modern infrastructure that it wouldn't be very surprising for humanity as we know it to fall back into the Stone Age if a catastrophic event were to occur.
In a way, this state of affairs lends some believability to the setting of Dr. Stone. But what makes the story even more fun for me is precisely that Senku is that unbelievably knowledgeable guy who would know how to remake the pencil from scratch. The whole video game aspect is just a silly gag/gimmick that also feels nostalgic for people like me who've done their fair share of gaming. There's nothing really in the telling of the story that relies on the video game analogy (even though there are some pretty decent games that share the same premise as this manga).
Anyway, this is all coming from a guy who enjoys spending his free time watching primitive technology videos on YouTube. If you don't enjoy learning about how to make some of the most important/influential inventions of all time via manga format, then Dr. Stone probably isn't meant for you.
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I don't think that story beign akin to video games is a good thing. Makes story to feel artificial and fake, makes it feel less alive. While during traditional storytelling interactivity comes from you interpreting information you receive as you please with full control and scale of your imagination, in contrast videogames are focused on limited set of real time/turn based interactions. In other words, videogames as a medium is a terrible source to draw inspiration from for writing a story, because story in videogames is tailored to feed that gameplay loop, not imagination.
That is an absolutely wrong way of looking at it, because writing is about limitation, too. It's about limiting one's imagination to the scenes you wrote as you intended them to come across. The interactivity is about how successfully that comes across and what else might come across unintentionally. How abstract or concrete something is will depend on what the author wants you to interact with their story. With a visual medium such as manga, that is even more true since the images necessarily limit our interpretations even more. Games work in a similar way. Their design is about limiting a player to a series of rules and goals through which they navigate in order to relate an experience. The tools they have at their disposal may be different, but they share a lot of common ground. In fact, a lot of writing does take influence from games (not necessarily video games, but games, themselves), like mysteries, which can make a game of a crime by providing readers with enough clues to allow them to find the answer.
The game appeal of Dr. Stone is a similar sort of puzzle solving, where in each arc, we have some goal, only raw materials and devices manufactured previously, and the assumption of infinite skill and knowledge of modern science. So they need to make a phone from scratch. How do you transfer sound across long distances? You need mics/speakers, resonators, something to encode/decode the signal (requires wires, transistors/vacuum tubes), batteries (for portability) and plastic for lightweight casing. How do you make those things from scratch? Questions like that are things you can guess at with some knowledge of science/engineering, and are still fun to uncover and learn about without that.
A side note is that videogames require a lot of imagination, too, be it in interpreting the experience or finding new ways to interact with it. Anything from roleplaying to speedrunning to just experiencing the game is an act of creativity on the player's part, where they get to apply themselves to the interaction and through that converse with the game.
I do find appealing to start things anew from a blank slate, but that's if I see possibility on things improving this time. I don't find this aspect appealing in Dr.Stone, because the ulitimate goal is not to improve the world, but to just get it back to somewhat decent state, somewhat similiar to how it was before the mass extinction. Rather, what I find far more appealing is the new possibilities this stonification incident might have brought. However the extent to what it went was just pulling over the blank slate and nothing else so far, other than beign used as tool to conveniently recruit people.
This feels like an odd complaint because, again, that is the premise. If you want to see creativity applied to future tech, read a hard science fiction story. I think it's a reasonable conceit, though, to stick with reinventing human civilization since it takes a lot of effort to come up with full new fictional inventions alone, and the author would also need to provide the route to making these fake things, which leaves a lot of room for error. The appeal of walking back through civilization's footsteps is that this stuff can be researched, thought of and made. As a series targeted at a younger demographic, it gives them a lot of experiments to try out, or think through, or look up (not all of these things are safe), which actually work. And again, this ties back to the whole puzzle of it all. Puzzles need to have solutions. The more you push into fictional territory, the more those solutions might not even exist. There's definitely an appeal to such things (see again: science fiction), but it's different from the appeal of this series.
The appeal in problem solving to me lies within reality. I'd prefer learning things for real- right now and myself. Like now when I'm writing this piece, I'm trying to figure out things I don't understand about human condition. To me it's far more appealing and engaging than watching Senku invent a lightbulb that I have dozens of already in the house. On that note, there is so much to learn and things that I don't know, so I've grown to be more picky than just stay interested in anything I see.
Okay, this just sounds contradictory. You want reality, but you also don't want Senku to be doing real things like building a lightbulb? I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at here. If you wanted absolute reality of what modern people would do in a primitive time, they would probably all die of foreign diseases and maybe make some pointed sticks before going extinct. In this story, we have the assumption of Senku's absolute knowledge of science, and are thus able to see realistic constructions of the most basic forms of modern technologies. Through that, we reveal what makes so many fixtures of our modern existence work. Did you actually know how a lightbulb was made? Or did you ever consider how the first lightbulb was made? Those are real questions with real solutions being explored here.
In a sense, even without Senku around, we might get back from zero to the lightbulb eventually, and I guarantee you the solution would be about the same (with maybe some adjustments based on available materials and simplest production methods developed). Senku just allows us to get there faster, and with a consistent set of characters, rather than watching generations die trying to figure out how to make sticks pointier.
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Where exactly is Ishigami village?
Astronauts' first island location:
Ishigami village location:
There's a big scheelite deposit at Mt. Kinpu, north of Fuji, which would be a bit of a trek so…I think we're supposed to suspend disbelief a little for that ideal skarn find.
Anyway, I agree that the astronauts probably chose the location very much on purpose! Senku even remarks on the fact that Hakone's volcanic nature results in a wealth of raw materials.
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I think it's fantastic that the "simple" invention of a lightbulb was shown to be really challenging and time consuming. Makes you appreciate how much we take common day things for granted. Also really made me appreciate what a miracle metal Tungsten is.
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That is an absolutely wrong way of looking at it, because writing is about limitation, too…
You didn't catch my point. How do I rephrase it? Attention on story in games gets hijacked by gameplay- it punishes hesitation and making wrong moves, hence driving story to back seat. Gameplay is what makes a game, story is just a supportive tool to help driving it forward. What's more, not only there is no reserved time in game to ponder about story, but also player is prone to miss story related things due to his attention drifting off to different things while playing. As result story in games is delibarately tailored to suit gameplay. There is no point in taking game like story outside of the medium, because it's designed specifically for purpose of feeding gameplay loop, that doesn't exist if you don't play a game.
When watching a movie or reading a movie you can fully focus on story with no distractions whatsoever. As such there is no reason to limit the story.
The game appeal of Dr. Stone is a similar sort of puzzle solving, where in each arc, we have some goal, only raw materials and devices manufactured previously, and the assumption of infinite skill and knowledge of modern science. So they need to make a phone from scratch. How do you transfer sound across long distances? You need mics/speakers, resonators, something to encode/decode the signal (requires wires, transistors/vacuum tubes), batteries (for portability) and plastic for lightweight casing. How do you make those things from scratch? Questions like that are things you can guess at with some knowledge of science/engineering, and are still fun to uncover and learn about without that.
I enjoy puzzle solving if I feel like one putting the puzzle together. Watching someone else do it makes me feel like I'm not needed there. I guess I'd need to study electronics to get some ideas on my own so I can follow the process along.
A side note is that videogames require a lot of imagination, too, be it in interpreting the experience or finding new ways to interact with it. Anything from roleplaying to speedrunning to just experiencing the game is an act of creativity on the player's part, where they get to apply themselves to the interaction and through that converse with the game.
Examples? I think I get your point, but I'm not sure I'm at same place with you.
Okay, this just sounds contradictory. You want reality, but you also don't want Senku to be doing real things like building a lightbulb? I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at here.
What I was getting at was that I feel like reading a story it's not the best way to learn tehnical stuff. I could just google how to make a lightbulb and get information I need to work with, if that's what I wanted.
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I don't think that "every lightbulb will be the same" theory, mainly comming from a software background, I've seen people arrive at the same solution, in a increasingly bizzarre and beautiful ways, in any other field, once you arrive at a good enough solution, getting to that point from another path is just worthles.
Maybe, in the real world, there is a random plant that under certain circumstances can burn slower than it grows, so it could be an ultimate lamp, but as we already have gases and metals that do that it is too cost prohibitive to go and search it or something like that.
Dr. Stone is follow the recipee and make do with what you have, but in the end we are having ramen, instead of something good that you can make out of the foxtail grass stuff.
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You didn't catch my point. How do I rephrase it? Attention on story in games gets hijacked by gameplay- it punishes hesitation and making wrong moves, hence driving story to back seat. Gameplay is what makes a game, story is just a supportive tool to help driving it forward. What's more, not only there is no reserved time in game to ponder about story, but also player is prone to miss story related things due to his attention drifting off to different things while playing. As result story in games is delibarately tailored to suit gameplay. There is no point in taking game like story outside of the medium, because it's designed specifically for purpose of feeding gameplay loop, that doesn't exist if you don't play a game.
When watching a movie or reading a movie you can fully focus on story with no distractions whatsoever. As such there is no reason to limit the story.
And again, I think you're misunderstanding the medium of games. Video games in particular are a complicated thing, because they're an amalgam of different media: visuals, sound, storytelling and gameplay itself. Some game makers put storytelling on top of a game, without considering its interaction with gameplay, which gives birth to the problem you're mentioning, but that isn't exactly good form.
First off, games do not need story to have narrative. They relay experiences through constraints and goals. A game of tag creates tension just by the relationship it creates between players and whoever's "it". Chess creates a more thoughtful experience by starting you and your opponent with symmetric conditions, meaning that you have to outwit them to win. In a more complex example, the video game Flower conveys the fun of flying and movement by giving you free controls, a beautiful environment and allowing you to interact with it through your movement.
The best games that incorporate storytelling are ones where the game and story are directly tied. Undertale is a great example of this, as its narrative adapts depending on how you treat enemies in battle, to make a statement on morality applied to fiction.
Dr. Stone, though, more simply incorporates ideas and narrative elements from games as a way to intrigue and, to some extent, inspire its readers, with the questions each invention poses. Some other storytelling elements are in play to support this, like having an enemy to increase the tension and stakes (though maybe not the most effective or interesting villain) and giving us a host of fun personalities to facilitate and react to these advances, but they're not as big of a focus.
I enjoy puzzle solving if I feel like one putting the puzzle together. Watching someone else do it makes me feel like I'm not needed there. I guess I'd need to study electronics to get some ideas on my own so I can follow the process along.
It's educational if you don't know it, and I think it's pretty fun watching the author come up with these solutions and ideas. Maybe this is the point of disagreement, since if you don't enjoy seeing this sort of problem solving narrative, then there isn't a whole lot left to it. Dr. Stone isn't the only sort of story like this, though, and they definitely have an appeal and popularity. Isaac Asimov's highly celebrated and influential Foundation series starts off like this, too, except it focuses on the idea of rebuilding society, rather than technology.
Examples? I think I get your point, but I'm not sure I'm at same place with you.
The obvious examples are things like Minecraft, which offer very literal creative tools to the players, and gives them both practical scenarios that require creative solutions, and the means to make incredibly intricate projects, offering a good set of constraints to bring out the player's imagination. Less obvious might be something like Super Mario 64, where the path to a goal may be obvious, but you're allowed to explore and approach it any way you want. People still have been making alternate SM64 goals, such as minimum A button presses, which is a testament to the game's ability to facilitate creative solutions. A more strict game like a Telltale visual novel offers you a lot of choices that, while they don't affect the ultimate story, allow you to roleplay and experience things differently depending on how you play your character. Even a walking simulator, where your actions have no direct impact, can allow for imaginative play. Journey is the standout example, where the environment is fun to move around and might make you want to explore it in your own ways, and the introduction of a second random player and the constraint of no voice option requires you to develop some wordless communication and lets you interpret their actions. Heavily story-based RPGs will benefit from story interpretations and require creative solutions to make it through the battles. Even the most guided and linear puzzles require you to put in some base level of imagination to piece together the solution.
Not every game is perfect at it, but because you need to think in order to progress a game, gameplay is inherently creative, and it's up to the game designers to design and constrain that experience in enjoyable and interesting ways.
What I was getting at was that I feel like reading a story it's not the best way to learn tehnical stuff. I could just google how to make a lightbulb and get information I need to work with, if that's what I wanted.
That's easy to say, but have you actually googled how to make a lightbulb? Ever? It doesn't count if it's in response to this thread. It is a writer's job to take all sorts of thoughts, ideas, feelings and even facts and render them in fun and interesting ways for a reader to experience them. Asking why you would want to read a story about making a lightbulb is like asking why you would read a sad story when you could just be sad in real life.
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I have such a strange relationship with Dr. Stone. I love the premise of the series and how it teaches readers about how things are made and how science works, I love senkuu for being an absolute shithead of a shounen protagonist, really refreshing to just have a huge cheater main character, and honestly the gags are decent
But I find the series to just be super unengaging due to the non-senkuu characters being a lot more generic and uninteresting
And I don't think the series can really float as a one-man show, but man is senkuu just a really fun character
Also the girls look like creepy aliens with jelly bones and I can't get over that -
Rival chrom started very good, but disciple chrom while he had some moments, has been too underwhelming.
The mentalist is where my hopes are, but I doubt hell do it.
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Also the girls look like creepy aliens with jelly bones and I can't get over that
Spoilers: It wasn't Earth, all along.
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Or: the incest destroyed them.
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Spoilers: It wasn't Earth, all along.
wait what
what the fuck happened after Senkuu won the tournament -
How long will it take Senku and co. to construct a straw hat? That's gotta be end-game level difficulty right there.
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well, safe to say none of us saw this plan coming
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How can that plan work with the fact that she was in space just before the stonification common knowledge ? What would be the story they could sell regarding what happened to her and the ISS ?
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How can that plan work with the fact that she was in space just before the stonification common knowledge ? What would be the story they could sell regarding what happened to her and the ISS ?
well,people don't really know how the stonification process happened, they don't even know if it was just the product of a single moment or multiple ones, maybe whatever thing turned people into stones lingered in the air for quite a while and they got affected when they went back.
there's a lot of justifications and excluse you can make with an event so mysterious and unplausible like "people one day turned into stones"
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How can that plan work with the fact that she was in space just before the stonification common knowledge ? What would be the story they could sell regarding what happened to her and the ISS ?
Do Tsukasa's followers come off as particularly bright to you?
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One of the problems with the world today is that literally no one knows how to make a pencil from scratch. That no one can make something so simple and yet so vital to modern society is kind of astonishing… but it also shows just how ripe our civilization has become for an apocalypse. Current technology is so desperately dependent on modern infrastructure that it wouldn't be very surprising for humanity as we know it to fall back into the Stone Age if a catastrophic event were to occur.
In a way, this state of affairs lends some believability to the setting of Dr. Stone. But what makes the story even more fun for me is precisely that Senku is that unbelievably knowledgeable guy who would know how to remake the pencil from scratch. The whole video game aspect is just a silly gag/gimmick that also feels nostalgic for people like me who've done their fair share of gaming. There's nothing really in the telling of the story that relies on the video game analogy (even though there are some pretty decent games that share the same premise as this manga).
Anyway, this is all coming from a guy who enjoys spending his free time watching primitive technology videos on YouTube. If you don't enjoy learning about how to make some of the most important/influential inventions of all time via manga format, then Dr. Stone probably isn't meant for you.
This.
That's why Dr. Stone is a sci-fi… because it takes the readers' minds to other points of view involving science with a bit of fiction. If you can't get how the world works, is quite a possibility that you won't truly understand what's within the story.Now this is a fairly good development, just hope it comes to be a broader sight of the whole personalities of Tsukasa's army.
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Senku definitely planted something on Homura when he 'captured' her, but given that he and everyone else knows how frail he is that was a ploy to do so. Just can't figure out for the life of me what it would be. Until next week I guess.
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I agree he must have planted something on her. I can't really think of anything else other than maybe a microphone, but that's impossible considering the size of their "cellphones".
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Maybe he gave her candy.
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Definitely had to be something planted on her feet that would react to light like that.
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With this speed they will achieve cloning and even surpass science-kingdom G66 at chapter 100. Too bad they are the good ones.
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Unrelated, but whatever happened to the other 2 initial protagonists? I remember them joining Tsukasa's empire after Senku's "death" ages ago, but was expecting to hear from them eventually. Did the author decide they were too boring / by the book ? I wouldn't blame him for that by the way.