The constitution is a piece of paper.
It's only functional while it's enforced, so the question is: if Trump refuses to obey the law, who will force him to leave office when he's legally required to go?
The answer is hopefully the military.
The guy from Infowars makes more sense.
If Biden wins, Biden is the president, no longer Trump.
Look, if you don't like any of them and don't want to vote for any of them could you just… not vote for Trump at least? Like everyone always says make sure you vote, but if you're actively doing it as just a spite pick and don't want them there, then stay out of the process entirely, don't contribute to making it worse.
If you want to vote on local stuff you can still do that and leave the top of the ticket blank. Like I posted just above, you're NOT just voting for the pres, you're voting for lots of things under them like very likely the next supreme court judge and environmental regulations. (If we don't get seriously going on global warming we're going to run out of time, 2024 is too late to get started on serious reforms.)
Don't vote based on emotion, look at actual policies and vote based on facts.
Like CHILDREN IN CAGES.
I get what you are saying there and I agree with that. I must point out that I'm a very cynical person who does not go into certain logics like this. Plus people getting deported happens under every presidents. Children being locked up in cages is terrible, why are the Democrats not hard pressing the president to release them?
The guy from Infowars makes more sense.
If Biden wins, Biden is the president, no longer Trump.
I do agree with you on this one, but the constitution also says congress can remove an incompetent president from office. That didn't go so well because the people responsible for doing so refused to do their duty to the country. So yes, the human factor is very much important for whether or not what's in the constitution even matters.
Gonna give ya the D.!
@The:
Maybe don't jump to conclusions next time though, Robby?
I take it you didn't follow the 2016 thread much.
Complicating things since 2009.
I take it you didn't follow the 2016 thread much.
I only recently started being active in the forum as a whole, so no. But I was referring to the particular instance I saw, not anything that happened in the past. Can we not do this though? I'm not interested in the interpersonal bullshit of forum members. This isn't the place for it anyway.
@joekido:
None of the Democrat candidates are appealing for me to vote for. Biden is like Donald Trump while Sanders is too old and frail that he won't last 4 years in office.
I definitely know who to vote for this year and I hate to say it, as much as I dislike Trump, I'm casting my vote on him. Let me explain my little history. Back in 2012, I voted for Mitt Romney so Obama would leave office but that never happened but I got a gut feeling Obama was going to stay for another 4 years.
Back in 2016, I voted for Hillary Clinton so Trump will not win, however like with Obama I got a gut feeling that Trump is gonna win however I ignored it and guess what folks? That orange ape won.Yet I knew they would pull a Bill Clinton on the impeachment trial and I had gut feeling that Trump is going to win re-election..
I'am tired of casting my votes basing on emotions, they always ends up wrong and I'm not going to cast my vote on lesser candidates. At this point, Trump is the sigh only "credible" man to stay president until 2024 and hopefully by then the Republicans and Democrats finally realize they need to change and select better candidates that can do the job.
I've been criticizing Trump on my Facebook, can't wait to criticize him another four years. To be fair though I criticized Obama in the past and other presidents as well.
Did I read wrong, or are you saying you'll be voting for "the orange ape" simply because you think he's going to win, so why bother voting for anyone else? That's not right Sir. Biden is weak, yes. Biden, at best, will just keep things as is, while also trying to restore some of what Trump broke. But do you realize just how much damage Trump can do for another four years? No one, not even Bloomberg, are capable of that kind of destruction.
The constitution is a piece of paper.
It's only functional while it's enforced, so the question is: if Trump refuses to obey the law, who will force him to leave office when he's legally required to go?
The answer is hopefully the military.
It's not about Trump's refusal to leave office that I'm worried about, it's his support base that just might be crazy enough to support his refusal to leave office.
@Robby:
Actually, you're just voting.
I'm a lot more worried about Trump refusing to step down if he loses to Biden (or refusing to step down in 2024) than I am about the Democratic Party leadership's problems.
…Or whatever else happens if he wins.
I say this after having felt the same thing about Trump being elected, but I don't think this could possibly happen, and it it were to, it would be the beginning of a vastly different America. A United States in which a president doesn't step down becomes a United States at war, which becomes a United States vulnerable to all of its greatest enemies. There's probably enough dumbasses around the states that would support Trump trying dumb shit like that, but the military leaders are nowhere near that stupid, even if it was a means toward martial law. We have too many enemies and the cost of huge mistakes is too high.
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@Kaba:
It's not about Trump's refusal to leave office that I'm worried about, it's his support base that just might be crazy enough to support his refusal to leave office.
I'm not worried about Trump not leaving office, but I am worried that if Trump were to lose, they would respond with violence. As much as the right parroted talking points about the left's response to Trump's election back in 2016 and 2017 as being unfounded, they were mostly peaceful. Antifa might through a wrench into that idea, but I don't think they were anywhere near full steam by that point.
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Trump is heavily implying that the uninsured will be given coronavirus treatment for free, which puts him to the left of Biden and Pelosi on the issue of healthcare and will probably be an effective way to capture some Sanders and Warren voters if Biden wins.
!
I imagine that if Trump were to seriously propose this, Biden and Pelosi would go more to the left. I don't think he will because this has happened before. He seemed to be more left than the GOP on the trans bathroom issue but pretty quickly changed his mind. I doubt he'll go against those with power and money now, either.
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@joekido:
None of the Democrat candidates are appealing for me to vote for. Biden is like Donald Trump while Sanders is too old and frail that he won't last 4 years in office.
Biden is much more to the left than Trump and isn't a racist pig who assaulted women. I think that's enough of a difference.
I definitely know who to vote for this year and I hate to say it, as much as I dislike Trump, I'm casting my vote on him. Let me explain my little history. Back in 2012, I voted for Mitt Romney so Obama would leave office but that never happened but I got a gut feeling Obama was going to stay for another 4 years.
Back in 2016, I voted for Hillary Clinton so Trump will not win, however like with Obama I got a gut feeling that Trump is gonna win however I ignored it and guess what folks? That orange ape won.
So I have a few questions here. First, why did you vote against Obama in 2008? Romney is a much more principled man than Trump in theory, but the political results of either being president wouldn't be much different. Also, what's the relevance of the gut feeling about Obama? Yeah, he won, what does that have to do with your vote?
As for 2016, it seems you saw Trump as a piece of shit and voted against him. Are you conservative? That's fine, but what did you see in Trump that made him so unpalatable then, that has changed now? Also, again, i don't understand you referring to the gut feeling. Is your goal to always vote for who will win, or are you voting for who you think will better govern the country?
I'am tired of casting my votes basing on emotions, they always ends up wrong and I'm not going to cast my vote on lesser candidates. At this point, Trump is the sigh only "credible" man to stay president until 2024 and hopefully by then the Republicans and Democrats finally realize they need to change and select better candidates that can do the job.
It truly sounds like you're tired of voting for who loses? Who gives a fuck if you are voting on your principle?! Is Trump's immorality really more credible than Bernie's age or Biden's political similarity to Trump? (which is silly) As for the Democrats and Republican's selecting better candidates, they tried! Trump was no one's choice, even the rotten ass GOP. They would have much rather had Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio, or Jeb Bush. The Dems were certainly for Hillary in 2016, but lots of their preferred candidates made it to Super Tuesday. (Kamala Harris, who was a great candidate, Cory Booker, Julian Castro) Shit happens, America will merica.
I've been criticizing Trump on my Facebook, can't wait to criticize him another four years. To be fair though I criticized Obama in the past and other presidents as well.
If your critiques of Trump are so hollow that you can't convince yourself, I don't understand what the point is.
@The:
I do agree with you on this one, but the constitution also says congress can remove an incompetent president from office. That didn't go so well because the people responsible for doing so refused to do their duty to the country. So yes, the human factor is very much important for whether or not what's in the constitution even matters.
The Constitution says that whoever wins in November is president at noon January 20th, there's no human element there beyond Trump squatting in the Lincoln bedroom.
@Cyan:
The Constitution says that whoever wins in November is president at noon January 20th, there's no human element there beyond Trump squatting in the Lincoln bedroom.
Did you just forget about the part where I agreed that trumpy will have to leave office or something? It's literally the first part of the first line in my comment. I was making a broader comment on the constitution's relevancy to the current administration with the rest of it.
For Status Quo oligarchs, is even better if Biden wins this one time.
That'll make him the candidate in 2024 also, making Bernie have to wait 8 years for his next chance, can his heart resist 8 years without doing any funny stuff??That way, you get rid off both the fascist and the populist in one hit.
Bernie: The only progressive politician in America.
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@The:
Did you just forget about the part where I agreed that trumpy will have to leave office or something? It's literally the first part of the first line in my comment. I was making a broader comment on the constitution's relevancy to the current administration with the rest of it.
A Trump trying to stay illegally in office would have to have the backing of the intelligence and military.
Ask yourself if he's made big friends in those realms.
Lol joekido has to be trolling right?
Sorry for suggesting a political ploy by the world's greatest con-man might work, and the Democrats should really be doing something to counter it instead of pushing for treatment to be merely affordable.
Greatest con-man suggests Trump is shrewd and intelligent though.
I know it's hard to accept but you can have an entire community/enterprise fall under the sway of an addled brained belligerent clown through a series of bad luck and absurd chance. I wouldn't rush to credit him with some special ability that played the game.
@Monkey:
Greatest con-man suggests Trump is shrewd and intelligent though.
I know it's hard to accept but you can have an entire community/enterprise fall under the sway of an addled brained belligerent clown through a series of bad luck and absurd chance. I wouldn't rush to credit him with some special ability that played the game.
He literally bumbled his way into leading a die hard cult of lunatics, lol. I often wonder what sort of faustian deal he made to have such incredible charisma that somehow only affects stupid people.
Gonna give ya the D.!
Stupid people hate brown people. Trump said brown people are bad. That's it.
I will say Trump has a sort of base cunning and he knows how to play to his base effectively. These neo-fascist figures often pivot to the left on some social issues. That is certainly one of the reasons they are doing so well around the world lately. Trump also has a lot of energy to do rallies all the time (because it's pretty much the only thing he enjoys about being a politician).
Stupid people hate brown people. Trump said brown people are bad. That's it.
I will say Trump has a sort of base cunning and he knows how to play to his base effectively.
You're giving him a bit too much credit especially when he makes such gaffes as "I love the poorly educated" which in a way is actually not wrong given the limited mental faculties of the people who vote Republican but….
Its the way the winds are blowing nowadays, it ain't too hard to just go with the flow and be or say whatever the broadest userbase wants to hear. Especially if you yourself have no genuine stance on anything
@The:
He literally bumbled his way into leading a die hard cult of lunatics, lol. I often wonder what sort of faustian deal he made to have such incredible charisma that somehow only affects stupid people.
He racismed his way into large tea party support and won the primary the same way he did the presidency, winner-takes-alling states.
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You're giving him a bit too much credit especially when he makes such gaffes as "I love the poorly educated" which in a way is actually not wrong given the limited mental faculties of the people who vote Republican but….
Lots of educated people vote Republican, most of them are rich and racist. Almost all of them were white. Trump literally started his policial career with birtherism. He's a white supremacists and MAGA is code word for let's get back to when we didn't have to hide our disdain for the dark skinned.
edit: I should rephrase Republican with Trump
^ Lots of educated people do vote Republican lot of stupid people (who are stupid usually do do the former getting elected or lobbying for cuts to education) also vote Republican.
@Monkey:
Greatest con-man suggests Trump is shrewd and intelligent though.
I know it's hard to accept but you can have an entire community/enterprise fall under the sway of an addled brained belligerent clown through a series of bad luck and absurd chance. I wouldn't rush to credit him with some special ability that played the game.
I think he actually is really good at conning and trolling people.
It's just that his stupidity, narcissism, lack of academic skill, inability to accept help from or trust others, severe paranoia, lack of self-restraint, drug addiction etc… all make him totally incapable of gaining any other skills relevant to the presidency.
Tricking a hundred million stupid people into supporting him for years despite his incredibly obvious flaws is not an easy task.
If you want proof, look at how he's able to lure the media away from talking about real scandals by saying stupid shit on twitter and pulling wacky stunts like sharpiegate.
I don't actually know if trumpy is a racist or a white supremacist, but he's using them to advance his own political career and that's just as bad in my opinion.
Gonna give ya the D.!
@The:
I don't actually know if trumpy is a racist or a white supremacist, but he's using them to advance his own political career and that's just as bad in my opinion.
He has a long history of racism so I'm pretty confident that he's a legitimate racist.
If you go back and look at the 2016 Republican Primary debates, he comes across as a much more convincing racist than everyone else.
He has a long history of racism so I'm pretty confident that he's a legitimate racist.
If you go back and look at the 2016 Republican Primary debates, he comes across as a much more convincing racist than everyone else.
Full disclosure, I haven't actually paid much attention to trumpy since before he was elected, and even then not very much. So I'm not especially well versed on his beliefs, if he actually does believe in anything at all.
Gonna give ya the D.!
@The:
Full disclosure, I haven't actually paid much attention to trumpy since before he was elected, and even then not very much. So I'm not especially well versed on his beliefs, if he actually does believe in anything at all.
He has a long, long history of it from his business days (against Jews and Blacks most obviously. I mean the man was publicly sued for housing discrimination in the 70s, when it was pretty popular everywhere), he displayed it as the face of birtherism against Obama (which was based on nothing but the idea that a black man couldn't possibly be legitimately the president) and he ran on it, against Mexicans.
edit: Let's not forget the first big failure of his presidency: Him not being able to ban muslims from entering the country.
Questions out of curiosity:
-has a Vice President, just the Vice President without the President, ever been removed from office?
-has the incumbent ever had competitors from their party during elections? I don't think Obama 2012 had any challengers or Trump 2020
I accept Jesus Burgess as my Lord and Savior 
@Monkey:
Bernie: The only progressive politician in America.
nah, Only the one actively threatening status quo.
@joekido:
I'am tired of casting my votes basing on emotions, they always ends up wrong and I'm not going to cast my vote on lesser candidates. At this point, Trump is the sigh only "credible" man to stay president until 2024 and hopefully by then the Republicans and Democrats finally realize they need to change and select better candidates that can do the job.
You know, if the Republicans really cared about that, they would have him impeached.
@Medical:
Questions out of curiosity:
-has a Vice President, just the Vice President without the President, ever been removed from office?
-has the incumbent ever had competitors from their party during elections? I don't think Obama 2012 had any challengers or Trump 2020
For the first question, what comes to mind is Nixon's first VP, Spiro Agnew, who resigned due to scandal.
For the second, it used to happen pretty often, and Trump has a guy now, but most of the states aren't running primaries and he's not taken seriously. His name is Bill Weld. It used to happen a lot more. Check out some of the FDR's elections.
Bernie did float primarying Obama for 2012 but Harry Reid talked him out of it.
nah, Only the one actively threatening status quo.
Ah yes the very status-quo threatening "very old white guy who can't talk to black people and prides himself on an agenda that he knows isn't getting past Joe Manchin let alone the SCOTUS".
@Cyan:
Ah yes the very status-quo threatening "very old white guy who can't talk to black people and prides himself on an agenda that he knows isn't getting past Joe Manchin let alone the SCOTUS".
That's what I don't get about Democratic voters (and party officials) who are terrified of Bernie upending the system.
Everyone who really pays attention knows that the only way Bernie will get half of what he's promised is by primarying most of the Democrats in Congress. They may be things he wants and we need, but they should really be treated the same way any outlandish promise by a politician is.
I support Bernie because he's proven himself to be intelligent and morally incorruptable, not because he'll be our savior.
Also it would be really fitting for our first Jewish president to follow the first Nazi sympathizer president.
Em.. in case you didnt follow the actual point.
The only one openly yelling out loud against oil companies, unpayable college loans and doesn't believe you should go bankrupt over some flu.
Status quo oligarchs wouldn't ever let him win. He is a threat for them.
Everyone who really pays attention knows that the only way Bernie will get half of what he's promised is by primarying most of the Democrats in Congress.
Which at best would fail and at worse potentially lead to some of those seats going to Republicans.
I support Bernie because he's proven himself to be intelligent and morally incorruptable, not because he'll be our savior.
Morally incorruptible my ass, his positions on gun control are backwards for a Democrat running nationally in 2020, put his support behind a scheme to dump nuclear waste from a Vermont nuclear plant on a poor area of Texas, has said some incredibly fucked up things about immigration, gladly sings off on a trillion dollar boondoggle for the Pentagon, and of course all the weird sexual things he wrote in the 70s.
Em.. in case you didnt follow the actual point.
The only one openly yelling out loud against oil companies, unpayable college loans and doesn't believe you should go bankrupt over some flu.
Status quo oligarchs wouldn't ever let him win. He is a threat for them.
Yelling about the status quo will not actually change the status quo in any appreciable fashion, especially when, again, the best case scenario is Joe Manchin and John Roberts being the doors that all legislation needs to pass through.
Ted Kennedy infamously primaried Carter in 1980. After Kennedy lost, he refused to support Carter and instead quietly helped Reagan get elected, believing he’d be very beatable in 1984.
Pat Buchanan primaried Bush Sr. in 1992, which was the first sign that the GOP base had become deranged.
@Cyan:
Morally incorruptible my ass, his positions on gun control are backwards for a Democrat running nationally in 2020, put his support behind a scheme to dump nuclear waste from a Vermont nuclear plant on a poor area of Texas, has said some incredibly fucked up things about immigration, gladly sings off on a trillion dollar boondoggle for the Pentagon, and of course all the weird sexual things he wrote in the 70s.
…Ok, I had no idea that he did any of that.
Having consumed both progressive and mainstream media stories on Bernie over the last year I had gotten the impression that all criticisms of him were lies, because really... that's most of what CNN and MSNBC did.
It reminds me of how angry I was at Fox for putting out made up garbage like birtherism or Benghazi and comparisons of the "weak" Obama to the "strong" Vladimir Putin instead of reporting on Obama's massive drone war and his decision to order the killing of an American citizen without a trial.
Edit: I know I had a responsibility to read the news more often instead of watching it, but after doing that for the first two years of the Trump presidency I just couldn't take the flood of insanity and took time off to deal with real life problems. Then I realized how much less stressed out I was and got a bit lazy.
Em.. in case you didnt follow the actual point.
The only one openly yelling out loud against oil companies, unpayable college loans and doesn't believe you should go bankrupt over some flu.
Status quo oligarchs wouldn't ever let him win. He is a threat for them.
He is not the only one doing those things.
It just seems that way from outside apparently!
@Cyan:
Morally incorruptible my ass, his positions on gun control are backwards for a Democrat running nationally in 2020
Here's a source for that as well.
Interesting how Bernie's supporters are fine with him evolving on a subject where he held totally opposite opinions only only a couple of years ago while simultaneously talking up things that Biden said decades ago and that Joe has himself changed on since.
You know, if the Republicans really cared about that, they would have him impeached.
I agree with that. We really need to fix our government
Currently writing a book
@joekido:
I agree with that. We really need to fix our government
Voting for Trump is voting for breaking it.
@Monkey:
Voting for Trump is voting for breaking it.
I believe we should break it and start fixing it again to make it good as new. My ideas may be flawed however sometimes things like this needs to happen.
Currently writing a book
@joekido:
I believe we should break it and start fixing it again to make it good as new. My ideas may be flawed however sometimes things like this needs to happen.
Like when?
I mean, do you just up and total your car so you can fix and make it "good as new"?
Or are you arguing that we need to totally dismantle and rebuild our government?
Turns out joekido is an accelerationist, go figure.
@Cyan:
Turns out joekido is an accelerationist, go figure.
I think I'll take that.
Does anyone else just suddenly not care about any of this? I feel like all the limited energy I had for anything political was just sapped on Tuesday.
Gonna give ya the D.!
Cause you dont believe Biden can wipe Trump's ass.
He's going to, but first he has to kiss a lot of very young girls
Gonna give ya the D.!
@The:
It's not that. I'll still vote for biden in November, I'm just not excited about any of this anymore.
As long as you're voting against Trump, all is peachy.
Check out my podcast for conversations about Greatness in anime, sports, music, and whatever else we can think of.
@The:
It's not that. I'll still vote for biden in November, I'm just not excited about any of this anymore.
I mean, the election itself is still eight months away. This past Tuesday pretty much decided Biden as the Democratic nominee, so there's not much else to do other than what and see what develops between now and November (and watch the debates and stuff when we get close to the election).
As long as you're voting against Trump, all is peachy.
I would never. I despise the man on a personal level.
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I mean, the election itself is still eight months away. This past Tuesday pretty much decided Biden as the Democratic nominee, so there's not much else to do other than what and see what develops between now and November (and watch the debates and stuff when we get close to the election).
What develops between now and then is dementia, lol.
