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    Chapter 844: Luffy vs. Sanji

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    • P
      parklane21
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      I think Sanji should just stop worrying about Zeff. He is an old man too far away and he has his own adventure. About those things, he should just have faith or that same shtick will be used against him again, even if by some means he managed to get out of this one.

      Yup, he should really think highly of his self-worth. The future pirate king thinks highly of him and won't eat anything again unless he's serving it. He should stop giving up his life on things like mermaids, refusal to kick women, old people, and okamas just because they showed him some kindness that he's been denied from his childhood. Think about himself and his dream of All-blue.

      Some long-term predictions: Vegapunk with Paw-Paw fruit for Nakama!!! Kaidou is gonna be killed by Blackbeard and get his strongest Zoan DF!!!

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      • Phoenix Zoan
        Phoenix Zoan
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        Great Luffy chapter. Horrible Sanji chapter.

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        • R
          Raol.xh @Halfmetal-lich
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          @Halfmetal-lich:

          Good chapter. The long ass post by Avi up there is a good read and I agree with it.

          Still feels like we've danced this waltz a few too many times though. There is a few new steps yes, but it's the same "Crewmate has a problem, so he "leaves" and we have to "save" him" gist again.

          Feels very much like the timeskip's water seven, if Dressrosa was our Skypeia. Nothing wrong with that though.

          Only difference imo is that this time sanji will taake care of the vinsmoke problem himself and luffy will crash heads with big mum and run…hope oda goes this way since he said this is sanji's year....

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          • Kaido King of the Beasts
            Kaido King of the Beasts @parklane21
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            @parklane21:

            I think Sanji should just stop worrying about Zeff. He is an old man too far away and he has his own adventure. About those things, he should just have faith or that same shtick will be used against him again, even if by some means he managed to get out of this one.

            Stop worrying…about the guy who actually raised him like a dad. In the arc when we meet his birth father and find out how awful he is. That's basically on par with the people saying Sanji should start fighting with his hands or should develop an exoskeleton.

            Spoiler:

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            • will-of-R
              will-of-R @Aevium
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              @Aevium:

              –--
              Sorry if I did overkill. Had a lot to say.

              Your post can be a solid reference for anyone who want to argue (if they are #teamsanji) or just help to see the entire arc with a new light. Like I am now.
              Thanks for posting it, hope you will post more so you can vote on AP Tournament (though you might well be enjoy reading the campaign more)

              Yes we can

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              • P
                parklane21 @Kaido King of the Beasts
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                @Kaido:

                Stop worrying…about the guy who actually raised him like a dad. In the arc when we meet his birth father and find out how awful he is. That's basically on par with the people saying Sanji should stop using his hands or should develop an exoskeleton.

                Well, I'm pretty sure you have an excellent idea about how you can solve Sanji's predicament. Please, contribute. Oh wait… you are the guy who keeps on convincing everyone that Sanji is not wrong. That it's ok to beat up your captain and burn bridges with old crewmates when you're desperate. Knowing fully well that they come there for you through lengths and dangers. I don't want any crap from you.

                Some long-term predictions: Vegapunk with Paw-Paw fruit for Nakama!!! Kaidou is gonna be killed by Blackbeard and get his strongest Zoan DF!!!

                Kaido King of the Beasts 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • R
                  Raol.xh @Aevium
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                  @Aevium:

                  I've lurked these forums for 6 years and go figure it's this chapter that gets me to finally break and make my first post. (i.e. It's really not all that surprising.)

                  I think we need to take it easy on the high expectations for Sanji here. As many have already stated, he's got Zeff and his hands to worry about. He's trapped, I can't see him getting out of this situation with his intellect or strength alone. The threat to Zeff is really what the big hindrance is here, as there's nothing he can do about it from the far side of the world. But there's something else no one has mentioned, and it's pretty obvious to me Oda is trying to drill this into our heads. I think Oda is trying to communicate to us a third factor holding Sanji back, and the focus on his backstory before this point is crucial in this regard - it's his self-worth. He goes into Mr. Prince mode when it involves getting others out of a bind, but this situation is unique in that this time it's him in the shit. In my honest opinion, I've seen signs of Sanji struggling with self-worth throughout the entire series, but I won't go into that. The point is that Sanji's past has been revealed now, and if I were to pick out the one thing Oda’s been desperate to make repetitively clear to us, it's that Sanji was told over and over again that he's a waste of space and air. He was locked up as a child for how "worthless" he was. He is battling his self-worth here in this chapter, which is probably what Luffy noticed.

                  The purpose of Luffy's entire speech at the end of the chapter is to make it known to Sanji just how much he needs him, which we find out at the end he needs him enough to state he can't become Pirate King without him. That’s an awful lot. In particular, take a look at the bottom three panels of page 18 on MS. Luffy says he won't let the best chef walk away on him like this. Oda directly shows us a flashback of the Vinsmoke bros pummeling Sanji for showing an interest in cooking. Then we see Sanji cry harder. He's struggling here with his demons.

                  When Oda does these arcs with heavy drama between the SHs, like he did for Nami, Robin, even Usopp, he sets up the troubled crewmate for an emotional destination to reach by the end of the arc. There's a buildup, a catharsis after they've hit their lowest point, and then positive change in their character. This is the trend. For Nami, it was learning to depend on others and ask for help. For Robin, it was strengthening her desire to live and to trust others. For Usopp, it was his insecurities and feelings of uselessness. For Sanji now of course, it's his self-worth.

                  Another thing to touch on, of course Sanji knows what Luffy is capable of when a nakama is in trouble. Luffy even says this to him on page 16, that Sanji should know better. Sanji acting strangely like this is at the heart of his concern for the very reason that Luffy has begun to understand just how much pain Sanji is in, how much he’s struggling. Obviously it's crucial that Luffy grasps this here and now.

                  So no. It's not about Sanji trusting Luffy to save him. It's about making Sanji understand that he's worth the effort and risk to be saved. Throughout this arc Sanji has been fighting his demons and losing. He’s spiraling into a dark emotional pit and it's Luffy's job to pull him out of it. That’s why Luffy said he won’t eat and won’t move from his spot after telling Sanji how much he needs him. We’ll probably see a major shift in Sanji’s character after this as he battles with himself and asks for help somehow. I think this is what Oda’s going for.

                  Sorry if I did overkill. Had a lot to say.

                  good writing,agree on everything.you should post more…

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                  • Kaido King of the Beasts
                    Kaido King of the Beasts @parklane21
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                    @parklane21:

                    Well, I'm pretty sure you have an excellent idea about how you can solve Sanji's predicament. Please, contribute. Oh wait… you are the guy who keeps on convincing everyone that Sanji is not wrong. That it's ok to beat up your captain and burn bridges with old crewmates when you're desperate. Knowing fully well that they come there for you through lengths and dangers. I don't want any crap from you.

                    Hey, if I'm convincing people it means it's working 😛

                    No, I don't see what's wrong here. Sanji is in a massive predicament, with the fate of his hands and basically everyone he cares about on the line. And by attacking Luffy, he managed to both sell his situation and gain more favor with his family and Big Mom, rather than take a misstep that would basically put them on a warpath. Sanji is not solving his predicament now - this is just one step allowing him to keep him and his friends alive until the time grows more ripe.

                    The question is, if you don't like it, what do you think Sanji can do better? Stuff that doesn't violate his character like leaving Zeff out to dry.

                    Spoiler:

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                    • blue-san
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                      First of all I think this chapter is amazing and the way in portraits the feelings or rather how it creates feelings within us readers. The way Luffy did it was simply put amazing from Oda.

                      However besides that I will also take the time to say that no matter how amazing this chapter was, what Sanji just did, no matter his reasons is beyond ugly and disgusting. I can somewhat understand why he did it, however that does not excuse his approach not one bit, not even if it means he wanted to protect people he loves and persuade his family to think he has now cut off the ties and so on and on… Even if Luffy wasnt damaged much by blunt attacks which dont contain haki... the very fact that he went after him with his fists and said all those utter crap words is beyond forgiving. I will as a reader always remember that he did it and I must say my opinion of him dropped after this chapter. Simply put.

                      In the end I will say this, he has his own rules about not hitting women even if they are a garbage of a person and trying to harm him or people he loves...but he would hit his captain, friend and a person who would give everything for him like this....
                      I think that in itself speaks volume...

                      人事を尽くして天命を待つ

                      Link to my AMVs

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                      • Kishido
                        Kishido @blue-san
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                        @blue-san:

                        First of all I think this chapter is amazing and the way in portraits the feelings or rather how it creates feelings within us readers. The way Luffy did it was simply put amazing from Oda.However besides that I will also take the time to say that no matter how amazing this chapter was, what Sanji just did, no matter his reasons is beyond ugly and disgusting. I can somewhat understand why he did it, however that does not excuse his approach not one bit, not even if it means he wanted to protect people he loves and persuade his family to think he has now cut off the ties and so on and on… Even if Luffy wasnt damaged much by blunt attacks which dont contain haki... the very fact that he went after him with his fists and said all those utter crap words is beyond forgiving. I will as a reader always remember that he did it and I must say my opinion of him dropped after this chapter. Simply put.In the end I will say this, he has his own rules about not hitting women even if they are a garbage of a person and trying to harm him or people he loves...but he would hit his captain, friend and a person who would give everything for him like this....I think that in itself speaks volume...

                        I actually agree with this one and I would wish Zoro would be there.Btw why hasn't he dropped a simple hint to Luffy like saying at the end… If you want to eat go to Zeff.Maybe Luffy would get it

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                          TheGreatCaptainUsopp
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                          Wow, what a great chapter, I don't get why people are being negative. This is awesome, can't wait for next week

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                          • Cyclone_Baroness
                            Cyclone_Baroness @Maju
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                            @Kaido:

                            Considering that they once vanquished four North Blue nations and are big shots in the Underworld, they are not mooks.

                            Plus Vito made it clear that Big Mom could easily get involved as well, and then it's pretty much game over.

                            We saw Niji and Ichiji step in and do most of the damage though. The Vinsmokes are the threat the army is filler for intimidation.

                            @Kaptayn:

                            The situations stated are very different from the current one. Luffy has brought a small group into an Emperor's territory. And I think we can agree on the fact that Big Mom's crew is far more impressive than CP9's.

                            But that's not really the matter - the thing is, in Enies Lobby, Sanji wasn't the one needing to be saved. And perspectives change a lot depending on wether it's you that needs to be rescued, or you rescuing someone: the crew wouldn't mind sacrificing for their beloved ones. But seeing their beloved ones dying for them? Different story. To illustrate: on Thriller Bark, Zoro and Sanji both wanted to be the one to save their friends from Kuma.

                            Accusing Sanji not to have faith in his friends when they're only like… six? and two whole armies are facing against them is going to far, imo. Again, and it has been stated several times, he has feelings.

                            The amount still shouldn't matter. Luffy showed up.

                            @Maju:

                            we are talking about a yonkou here, for sanji to have faith in luffy being able to take down both the vinmokes and big mom on his own would be unrealistical at best..especially when the past chapters were all about how they underestimated big mom's crew

                            as for the zeff part..nobody is to the east blue yet, they didn't send anyone.

                            Pardon my wonky typing I'm on my phone and may miss stuff stuff when replying.

                            Yonko or not that's the point of having some faith. Nobody is saying they'd have to actually fight her. In their brief time dealing with her she's shown a bit of leniency. She accepted that treasure in place of the candy. Although Luffy did mouth off to her after and now Jinbe is trying to leave lol ( although Sanji wouldn't know that I don't think.)

                            All in all I'm just not gelling with how Oda is handling this drama. Some of it works but then there's parts that don't make much sense.

                            Maybe by the time I catch up in my re-read this won't feel as blahh. But right now it's pretty weak on a week to week reading.

                            Huh? I don't revall did they state nobody was actually in East Blue?

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                            • Kishido
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                              Btw I miss the other SHs

                              like in Dressrosa I hate the split of the SHs.

                              Especially Zoro would be gold here. Not alone in this chapter and how he would react. Cuz he actually know Sanji thinks the same as him about how to treat a captain as shown on EL.

                              But also him seeing the faggots of brothers. Sanji and Zoro have their brotherly rival ongoing and maybe it has to do with Sanji's past and self doubts.

                              Zoro for sure would cut one or 2 up.

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                              • andy
                                andy @Kishido
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                                @Kishido:

                                I actually agree with this one and I would wish Zoro would be there.Btw why hasn't he dropped a simple hint to Luffy like saying at the end… If you want to eat go to Zeff.Maybe Luffy would get it

                                Zeff is not the only one in danger and luffy made things worst being there .
                                Since now luffy and the other SH can be hurt at anytime .

                                TLG , FFVIIR and Shenmue 3 2015 the E3 of dreams .

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                                • P
                                  parklane21 @Kaido King of the Beasts
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                                  @Kaido:

                                  No, I don't see what's wrong here. Sanji is in a massive predicament, with the fate of his hands and basically everyone he cares about on the line. And by attacking Luffy, he managed to both sell his situation and gain more favor with his family and Big Mom, rather than take a misstep that would basically put them on a warpath. Sanji is not solving his predicament now - this is just one step allowing him to keep him and his friends alive until the time grows more ripe.

                                  The question is, if you don't like it, what do you think Sanji can do better? Stuff that doesn't violate his character like leaving Zeff out to dry.

                                  No man. First, Sanji isn't even coerced to do that ruse. He did it on his own volition with the intent to leave the crew. He's not thinking of the future. He's not planning of going back. He's given up.

                                  Words to peeps: Don't be like Sanji. If you're desperate seek friends/families for help. Don't push them away, or worse, beat them to death.

                                  Seriously, I'm tired of having this discussion about my disappointment of Sanji. And I don't want to contribute on the hate here. I've been on it since last week.

                                  Edit: And you know what, in the end, I know Luffy will solve Sanji's problems. Not just himself, and will beg him for forgiveness and return to the crew.

                                  Some long-term predictions: Vegapunk with Paw-Paw fruit for Nakama!!! Kaidou is gonna be killed by Blackbeard and get his strongest Zoan DF!!!

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                                  • Phoenix Zoan
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                                    Well Sanji just made the situation worse. Luffy is basically sidelined now since he has to wait for Sanji. Sanji is still on his own to figure out a way out of the problem so nothing has really changed as it was before. Aside from him having resolve now to get out of this situation.

                                    We might get another commander Luffy fight since Big Mom should send someone after Luffy now that they now he defeated Cracker. Him being stationary shouldn't make it hard for them to find him. Luffy might get captured or we'll get another Zeff type moment where Sanji shows up finally after dealing with his family problems and he shows up to feed an extremely malnourished Luffy.

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                                      Michel_nunes
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                                      sanji beating up luffy was obviously to prevent his brothers to do it, i mean, i'm pretty sure that Luffy is obviously stronger than all 3 of them, but at that state luffy would be in trouble and Sanji's brothers wouldn't be so mercyfull

                                      but still, can't agree with his option to not explain his situation to luffy

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                                      • Phoenix Zoan
                                        Phoenix Zoan @Michel_nunes
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                                        @Michel_nunes:

                                        sanji beating up luffy was obviously to prevent his brothers to do it, i mean, i'm pretty sure that Luffy is obviously stronger than all 3 of them, but at that state luffy would be in trouble and Sanji's brothers wouldn't be so mercyfull

                                        but still, can't agree with his option to not explain his situation to luffy

                                        Sanji wouldn't of known that Luffy had just fought Cracker. So he wouldn't of known the state that Luffy was in. It wasn't to save Luffy from a brother beating. It was make Luffy leave. Sanji has already given up by this point.

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                                          Aevium
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                                          Thanks to all, glad I managed to make that a legible post. The chapter broke me only a couple hours ago, after all. 😆

                                          @will-of-R:

                                          Your post can be a solid reference for anyone who want to argue (if they are #teamsanji) or just help to see the entire arc with a new light. Like I am now.
                                          Thanks for posting it, hope you will post more so you can vote on AP Tournament (though you might well be enjoy reading the campaign more)

                                          I was desperate to post something after reading this forum. Seems like a lot of people get that Sanji's having a rough time of it, but don't understand precisely what he's going through, which is amazing to me considering the flashbacks Oda's been relentlessly firing at us that make it all explicitly clear.

                                          I will say that Sanji kicking the crap out of Luffy was extreme, but I didn't find it out of place. As many have stated, Sanji did not expect Luffy to show up at all (previous chapter had him caught off guard completely and even asking why his friends were there). He didn't have much time to sort through his options, he had to choose right then and there with Judge watching his every move. Why did he go all out and act like the bad guy? Why quit the crew? Sanji resigned himself to his fate pretty much after Zeff's life was threatened. Honestly I feel like Oda specifically drew that resignation on his face in chapter 839. He had already given up. Luffy showing up like that scared the shit out of him, because he knew if he gave Luffy even the slightest inkling that this wedding is not by his choosing, and that he needs help, Luffy would stop at NOTHING to help him. Of course, Luffy being Luffy, implicitly understood that something was still off, but to Sanji's success, Luffy is staying put which is at the very least what Sanji wants until Zeff is in the clear, or something else improves his situation.

                                          I see some people suggesting that Sanji should have slyly informed Luffy about the situation during their brief exchange. You think Sanji doesn't know what Luffy's like? He doesn't want Luffy and the others to save him, because that would get Zeff killed. Sanji's reaction was pure desperation - an urgent last minute method of getting Luffy off his back so Zeff won't be instantly snuffed out. Sanji is a very human character when it comes to his personality, he always has been. If you're telling me you wouldn't do the same for someone you love, you're probably either lying or you're a self-preserving asshole lol. Even beyond his humanistic traits and compassion, Sanji's bond with Zeff is unfortunately entwined with his childhood trauma, which makes it more unique than just any father-son bond (and probably more unhealthy). Zeff is a man who has influenced Sanji so much that his one-off comment about not hurting women (and slitting his throat if Sanji ever does because he would become someone Zeff despises) has caused Sanji to literally become incapable of ever hitting women because he doesn't ever want Zeff to reject him like his biological father did. The fact that Sanji would go to this extreme with his own captain honestly doesn't surprise me. It's shocking, sure, but not necessarily surprising. It's very much in line with Sanji's debt to Zeff. From Sanji's perspective, no matter the outcome, he does not want Zeff to die. And he resigned himself for this reason. At least for the time being. Like I said, hopefully we'll see Sanji pick himself back up since Luffy is entrusting him with the time and space he needs.

                                          Now as much as I get why Sanji's done what he's done, I'm just at a loss on how he will get out of this. He's still on his own for the time being. Can't wait to see where Oda will take this.

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                                          • madriano
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                                            People really are having a hard time to grasp how deep in shit Sanji is right now.

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                                            • KageKageKing
                                              KageKageKing @DemonX
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                                              @DemonX:

                                              Totally disappointed with how this chapter was written. Sheesh, Oda.

                                              What a nice thesis. Tell me more.

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                                              • Seafarer33
                                                Seafarer33 @Maju
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                                                @Maju:

                                                wait, the "infiltration" was in order to meet sanji,so how the hell meeting sanji goes against the plan? they were so "lucky" to find him before he goes into the castle, they would be fools to not try to intercept him now.

                                                To clarify: up to meeting Sanji, I am fine with everything the infiltration encompassed. It's the "Now I'm not gonna move an inch until you come back, forget we're in Yonkou territory" part that bothers me.

                                                As for Sanji…I do agree he is currently out of options, but that's only because Oda chose to write it that way. That choice isn't bad and I admit the execution is superb, but I had been hoping for something different. :sad:

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                                                • U
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                                                  Lol mangastream remains awful

                                                  Hey you! Let's party!

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                                                  • GetsugaZoro
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                                                    Last chapter, and this chapter reactions to what Sanji did are pathetic, Sanji doesn't want Big Mom, and his family to hurt Luffy, or worse Zeff who has no chance of defending himself, he has to do this for now, end of the story, it's not lack of character from his part or anything else.

                                                    Pokemon X/Y ingame name: Pedro

                                                    3DS FC : 1547 5213 7769 - NNID : SunGodKizaru Switch: SW-7487-5553-2501

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                                                    • K
                                                      keekoishere @Aevium
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                                                      @Aevium:

                                                      I've lurked these forums for 6 years and go figure it's this chapter that gets me to finally break and make my first post. (i.e. It's really not all that surprising.)

                                                      I think we need to take it easy on the high expectations for Sanji here. As many have already stated, he's got Zeff and his hands to worry about. He's trapped, I can't see him getting out of this situation with his intellect or strength alone. The threat to Zeff is really what the big hindrance is here, as there's nothing he can do about it from the far side of the world. But there's something else no one has mentioned, and it's pretty obvious to me Oda is trying to drill this into our heads. I think Oda is trying to communicate to us a third factor holding Sanji back, and the focus on his backstory before this point is crucial in this regard - it's his self-worth. He goes into Mr. Prince mode when it involves getting others out of a bind, but this situation is unique in that this time it's him in the shit. In my honest opinion, I've seen signs of Sanji struggling with self-worth throughout the entire series, but I won't go into that. The point is that Sanji's past has been revealed now, and if I were to pick out the one thing Oda’s been desperate to make repetitively clear to us, it's that Sanji was told over and over again that he's a waste of space and air. He was locked up as a child for how "worthless" he was. He is battling his self-worth here in this chapter, which is probably what Luffy noticed.

                                                      The purpose of Luffy's entire speech at the end of the chapter is to make it known to Sanji just how much he needs him, which we find out at the end he needs him enough to state he can't become Pirate King without him. That’s an awful lot. In particular, take a look at the bottom three panels of page 18 on MS. Luffy says he won't let the best chef walk away on him like this. Oda directly shows us a flashback of the Vinsmoke bros pummeling Sanji for showing an interest in cooking. Then we see Sanji cry harder. He's struggling here with his demons.

                                                      When Oda does these arcs with heavy drama between the SHs, like he did for Nami, Robin, even Usopp, he sets up the troubled crewmate for an emotional destination to reach by the end of the arc. There's a buildup, a catharsis after they've hit their lowest point, and then positive change in their character. This is the trend. For Nami, it was learning to depend on others and ask for help. For Robin, it was strengthening her desire to live and to trust others. For Usopp, it was his insecurities and feelings of uselessness. For Sanji now of course, it's his self-worth.

                                                      Another thing to touch on, of course Sanji knows what Luffy is capable of when a nakama is in trouble. Luffy even says this to him on page 16, that Sanji should know better. Sanji acting strangely like this is at the heart of his concern for the very reason that Luffy has begun to understand just how much pain Sanji is in, how much he’s struggling. Obviously it's crucial that Luffy grasps this here and now.

                                                      So no. It's not about Sanji trusting Luffy to save him. It's about making Sanji understand that he's worth the effort and risk to be saved. Throughout this arc Sanji has been fighting his demons and losing. He’s spiraling into a dark emotional pit and it's Luffy's job to pull him out of it. That’s why Luffy said he won’t eat and won’t move from his spot after telling Sanji how much he needs him. We’ll probably see a major shift in Sanji’s character after this as he battles with himself and asks for help somehow. I think this is what Oda’s going for.

                                                      Sorry if I did overkill. Had a lot to say.

                                                      Really, really good post. Glad to have you posting and hoping to see that Sanji avatar more often around here.

                                                      im curious about the bolded, care to elaborate?

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                                                      • SirCaesar
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                                                        And this is why you should shut up in the spoiler threads. Oda has been constantly (well, apart from Sabo VS Burgess, I'll give you that) developing his story in a good and unpredictable way. Now Sanji, who was forced to go with these guys, has been blackmailed in two different ways by a world-class army AND a Yonkou.
                                                        The New World has been very harsh for Sanji. He faced a guy who nearly broke his leg, the day after he was basically ready to die to save (half) his crew from DoFlamingo. Then he went to Zou only to find himself running from the BM pirates, and then after fighting Kaidou's underlings for a couple of days… he has been blackmailed and kidnapped by a supernova who is working for a Yonkou, who forced him to separate from his crew.
                                                        I mean, the guy is just broken, don't look for a cool minded shonen cringey character. Sanji is broken and desperate, and this is his why of shouting "Help me Luffy". Just as Nami was stabbing her shoulder back in Arlong Park.

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                                                          Fleet_Admiral_Akainu @Kaido King of the Beasts
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                                                          @Kaido:

                                                          That's the clunkiest thing I've ever heard.

                                                          And you really expect him to have a plan 2 minutes after seeing Luffy again?

                                                          LOL…i'm surprised to known that there are people that actually think that Sanji is a cold machine that will always come with a flawless rational plan capable to solve any kind of problem.I'm glad that Oda showed how much emotional he can be.

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                                                          • Phoenix Zoan
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                                                            One way to get out of the Zeff problem would be to have someone from either Germa or Mom's crew call whoever they sent to capture Zeff and have Zeff instead pick up the den-den instead. He'll give some speech to Sanji about not having to worry about him since he can handle himself and not to give up on following your dream.

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                                                            • fana
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                                                              Fantastic chapter. One of the best written chapter in this manga IMO.

                                                              Don't have much to develop since Aevium's posts perfectly resume my opinion regarding Sanji.

                                                              I know that it will probably trigger a lot of Sanji bashing but in my case it made me appreciate Sanji's character even more than before.
                                                              It's also the kind of chapter that makes Luffy one of the best MC ever created.

                                                              I don't know how it will happen yet, but this chapter makes the one to come in which Sanji will finally be able to fight back one of my most anticipated chapter ever.

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                                                                Dahaka. 0 @keekoishere
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                                                                @keekoishere:

                                                                Really, really good post. Glad to have you posting and hoping to see that Sanji avatar more often around here.

                                                                im curious about the bolded, care to elaborate?

                                                                I'm also very curious and would love to hear more from you about that, Aevium

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                                                                • sggupta
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                                                                  i have to say,i am not a fan of the chapter.at the same time,it had it's moments.sanji crying,luffy declaring his protest and nami slapping sanji were great.it was completely different from what i wanted.this is basically a more intense and dramatic handling,whereas i wanted something cool and suave.this works too but in the end i am not that satisfied.
                                                                  still,i don't agree with a lot of the complaints here

                                                                  that which cannot be stopped:inherited will,a man's dream,and the flow of time.as long as man continues to seek out the answer to freedom,these things shall never be stopped.-PK Gol D. Roger

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                                                                  • Cyclone_Baroness
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                                                                    Just an aside. I don't think Sanji should be an emontionless robot. If he couldn't figure out a way on his own. Fine. He can have a pity party until help artives. But he really should not be surprised Luffy would come for him. Luffy's track record shows that no matter what he'll go through Hell for people that mean a lot to him. Hell even some people that he just met and felt for them.

                                                                    That's probably my main gripe with the way Oda chose to write this arc. Sanji should know better. Sanji has known Luffy long enough to know he's extremely selfish but also wants people to have their freedom. And if your heart doesn't match your words he's not going to stand for it and drag you kicking and screaming lol.

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                                                                    • Don Quichotte De Flamingo
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                                                                      Iam a bit sorry Nami had to be used as the story tool to create some more drama there.
                                                                      Sanji kicking Luffy with that weight behind it, felt uncomfortably, but in a fighting manga with that drama build up, nothing else was to be hoped for.
                                                                      Luffy shouting at Sanji the obvious rejection of Sanji´s words, was a strong scene, i really enjoyed.
                                                                      Iam kind of worried that Oda might be overusing this premise to hold Luffy out of the picture for the coming events.
                                                                      But with Sanji having now that burden (especially when we know that he can´t let people simply starve..see Gin) obviously points to the fact that the place Luffy is waiting at, will become the gathering point of all the story strings.

                                                                      Unrevealed_Loki/Rocks/Im-san_

                                                                      IslandElbaf/Raftel/GodValley

                                                                      UnresolvedWeevil´s plan/Explaining DFs/Deal with Kuma-Bonney´s past/Joy-Boy/Zunisha´s story/Rocks flashback/Void Century/Rioponeglyph/Uranus/the D.clan

                                                                      DFWind/Metal/Acid/Liquid/Time-Stop

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                                                                        Luis20 @Cyclone_Baroness
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                                                                        @Cyclone_Baroness:

                                                                        Just an aside. I don't think Sanji should be an emontionless robot. If he couldn't figure out a way on his own. Fine. He can have a pity party until help artives. But he really should not be surprised Luffy would come for him. Luffy's track record shows that no matter what he'll go through Hell for people that mean a lot to him. Hell even some people that he just met and felt for them.

                                                                        That's probably my main gripe with the way Oda chose to write this arc. Sanji should know better. Sanji has known Luffy long enough to know he's extremely selfish but also wants people to have their freedom. And if your heart doesn't match your words he's not going to stand for it and drag you kicking and screaming lol.

                                                                        Maybe he didn't expect Luffy, because he left a letter saying he would take care of everything by himself. Yeah, Luffy always goes after his nakamas, but in those cases none of his nakamas told him that they could handle the situation like Sanji did with the letter. Besides, he didn't know that Luffy (and the alliance) would need to bring him to help in Wano Country either.

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                                                                          Jhon_Salchichon @Baldulf
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                                                                          @Baldulf:

                                                                          This worked better with Robin since she was a cold and hard to read character. Its so obvious for the characters (except for Nami I guess) that Sanji is faking his attitude that the emotional impact is lost.

                                                                          @Baldulf:

                                                                          This worked better with Robin since she was a cold and hard to read character. Its so obvious for the characters (except for Nami I guess) that Sanji is faking his attitude that the emotional impact is lost.

                                                                          You and a lot of people in this forum seem to totally be missing the point of what is happening in this chapter. Sanji is totally against the wall here, his ability to cook and the life of his father can be taken out in any second, so he must be super careful. He needs to wait for an opportunity to arise, he needs to buy time, and so he definitely just can't act now. He already kind of opposed the Vinsmokes in the castle so they know he wasn't given up that easily.

                                                                          So Luffy approaches him, what is he going to do? Say "Yeahhh go Luffy, fuck the Vinsmokes let's go to the sea again!" One second later he loss his hands, totally retarded option.

                                                                          So why is he doing this farce now? Simply, from Sanji's perspective it would be an advantage if the Vinsmokes think he gave up to them, they would lower their defenses, get confident and Sanji could have a better opportunity to strike back in the future, and against Luffy, he needed him out of the way because he could screw his opportunity to save Zeff's life. The "farce" was not supposed to be believable and thats why Sanji got what he needed for the time being, first he put Luffy on the hold for now, so he doesn't fuck with things until needed, and second, he made the Vinsmokes believe that he is surrending to them, wich is showed by their dialogues in the end.

                                                                          Sanji course of actions is TOTALLY understable and the best he could do out of that situation.

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                                                                            Dranza
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                                                                            I'm kinda disgusted by how Sanji went ham on Luffy. Pure disgust, Zoro would never do this and that's why he's the vice captain in fact if Zoro saw this he'd never accept him back in the crew that's why Oda separated him from the rescue mission.

                                                                            One of the best chapters I've read in years.

                                                                            But I fully expect Sanji to redeem himself.

                                                                            Year of Sanji, let's go!

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                                                                            • Cyclone_Baroness
                                                                              Cyclone_Baroness @Luis20
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                                                                              @Luis20:

                                                                              Maybe he didn't expect Luffy, because he left a letter saying he would take care of everything by himself. Yeah, Luffy always goes after his nakamas, but in those cases none of his nakamas told him that they could handle the situation like Sanji did with the letter. Besides, he didn't know that Luffy (and the alliance) would need to bring him to help in Wano Country either.

                                                                              There's still the problem of even if Luffy didn't come for him almost immediately Sanji is still a part of the Strawhats. Marrying.into Big Mom's family still makes it a Strawhat issue because Luffy wouldn't want to have a tie to a Yonko when he's trying to be pirate king.

                                                                              Correct me if I'm wrong about that by the way . It's been a few weeks since we got the specifics. Did Sanji go in the hopes of telling Big Mom no? And then gave up when his family showed up? Yes he was backed into a corner either way but there's no way Luffy wouldn't get involved at some point. Why make the situation worse?

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                                                                                BlackLegEd @Kishido
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                                                                                @Kishido:

                                                                                Good question… I'm just thinking of possibilities.What's about Zeff himself? Not talking about strength or something but he still was a famous pirate.What if he has some connection and knows what is going on and he actually will do something about Sanji's conflict in some form.Most epic thing would be him appearing and saying.Hey little eggplant... You don't even invite your father to your wedding?

                                                                                Don't care how impossible that is I want it to happen.

                                                                                Successful negro doesn't need a signature.

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                                                                                • Black Leg
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                                                                                  This year of Sanji is just making me a much bigger Luffy fan.

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                                                                                  • HeartOfDarkness
                                                                                    HeartOfDarkness @Aevium
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                                                                                    @Aevium:

                                                                                    I've lurked these forums for 6 years and go figure it's this chapter that gets me to finally break and make my first post. (i.e. It's really not all that surprising.)

                                                                                    I think we need to take it easy on the high expectations for Sanji here. As many have already stated, he's got Zeff and his hands to worry about. He's trapped, I can't see him getting out of this situation with his intellect or strength alone. The threat to Zeff is really what the big hindrance is here, as there's nothing he can do about it from the far side of the world. But there's something else no one has mentioned, and it's pretty obvious to me Oda is trying to drill this into our heads. I think Oda is trying to communicate to us a third factor holding Sanji back, and the focus on his backstory before this point is crucial in this regard - it's his self-worth. He goes into Mr. Prince mode when it involves getting others out of a bind, but this situation is unique in that this time it's him in the shit. In my honest opinion, I've seen signs of Sanji struggling with self-worth throughout the entire series, but I won't go into that. The point is that Sanji's past has been revealed now, and if I were to pick out the one thing Oda’s been desperate to make repetitively clear to us, it's that Sanji was told over and over again that he's a waste of space and air. He was locked up as a child for how "worthless" he was. He is battling his self-worth here in this chapter, which is probably what Luffy noticed.

                                                                                    The purpose of Luffy's entire speech at the end of the chapter is to make it known to Sanji just how much he needs him, which we find out at the end he needs him enough to state he can't become Pirate King without him. That’s an awful lot. In particular, take a look at the bottom three panels of page 18 on MS. Luffy says he won't let the best chef walk away on him like this. Oda directly shows us a flashback of the Vinsmoke bros pummeling Sanji for showing an interest in cooking. Then we see Sanji cry harder. He's struggling here with his demons.

                                                                                    When Oda does these arcs with heavy drama between the SHs, like he did for Nami, Robin, even Usopp, he sets up the troubled crewmate for an emotional destination to reach by the end of the arc. There's a buildup, a catharsis after they've hit their lowest point, and then positive change in their character. This is the trend. For Nami, it was learning to depend on others and ask for help. For Robin, it was strengthening her desire to live and to trust others. For Usopp, it was his insecurities and feelings of uselessness. For Sanji now of course, it's his self-worth.

                                                                                    Another thing to touch on, of course Sanji knows what Luffy is capable of when a nakama is in trouble. Luffy even says this to him on page 16, that Sanji should know better. Sanji acting strangely like this is at the heart of his concern for the very reason that Luffy has begun to understand just how much pain Sanji is in, how much he’s struggling. Obviously it's crucial that Luffy grasps this here and now.

                                                                                    So no. It's not about Sanji trusting Luffy to save him. It's about making Sanji understand that he's worth the effort and risk to be saved. Throughout this arc Sanji has been fighting his demons and losing. He’s spiraling into a dark emotional pit and it's Luffy's job to pull him out of it. That’s why Luffy said he won’t eat and won’t move from his spot after telling Sanji how much he needs him. We’ll probably see a major shift in Sanji’s character after this as he battles with himself and asks for help somehow. I think this is what Oda’s going for.

                                                                                    Sorry if I did overkill. Had a lot to say.

                                                                                    This guy really gets it.

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                                                                                      Dranza
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                                                                                      I love the dramatic build up of all this, tears flowing even before we're reaching the latter stages of the arc. Can't wait to see what's happened to Jinbei and how Luffy shuts this whole shit down the pay off is going to be amazing no one else sensing that?

                                                                                      Year of Sanji, let's go!

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                                                                                        Gamabounta @Cyclone_Baroness
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                                                                                        @Cyclone_Baroness:

                                                                                        Sanji should realize by now their crew can pretty much do the impossible. They've really only had one setback and that was a couple years ago.

                                                                                        I doubt they can teleport to the Baratie to save Sanji's father from a certain death, if Sanji go back with the SHs.

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                                                                                          Shobu Yoruichi @Luis20
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                                                                                          @Luis20:

                                                                                          Usopp's role is not as important as Sanji's and the circumstances were different.

                                                                                          The circumstances when both were introduced in the crew were also different. One was claimed in the crew in a second and the other was took like just an invitation to loiter around.

                                                                                          Meaning Luffy really has differents grades of liking in his crew, which it's a let down by Oda. Respect in the family is something primordial, even when Luffy tries to rescue Sanji of his psychological problem, he should not play with the rest of the crew like that, it points that Usopp can't become a sea warrior because of Sanji with Lin Lin, Zoro cannot become the greatest swordman because of Sanji, Robin won't find the info regarding the Void Century, Nami won't be drawing his world map, Chopper would not find the all-cure to illness, Franky would have to wait more to see the Sunny sailing all the seas and Brook won't reach where Laboon is.

                                                                                          Really, what the fuck… this became a bet involving all the crew and no one knows but Luffy and Nami.

                                                                                          Sanji was cute... but i don't give a damn about him. Just as others said, if Zoro were here; both, Sanji & Luffy, will receive the 'chop chop' claim.

                                                                                          Nothing exists; even if something exists, nothing can be known about it. Even if something can be known about it,

                                                                                          knowledge about it can't be communicated to others. Even if it can be communicated, it cannot be understood.

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                                                                                            Dranza @Aevium
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                                                                                            @Aevium:

                                                                                            I've lurked these forums for 6 years and go figure it's this chapter that gets me to finally break and make my first post. (i.e. It's really not all that surprising.)

                                                                                            I think we need to take it easy on the high expectations for Sanji here. As many have already stated, he's got Zeff and his hands to worry about. He's trapped, I can't see him getting out of this situation with his intellect or strength alone. The threat to Zeff is really what the big hindrance is here, as there's nothing he can do about it from the far side of the world. But there's something else no one has mentioned, and it's pretty obvious to me Oda is trying to drill this into our heads. I think Oda is trying to communicate to us a third factor holding Sanji back, and the focus on his backstory before this point is crucial in this regard - it's his self-worth. He goes into Mr. Prince mode when it involves getting others out of a bind, but this situation is unique in that this time it's him in the shit. In my honest opinion, I've seen signs of Sanji struggling with self-worth throughout the entire series, but I won't go into that. The point is that Sanji's past has been revealed now, and if I were to pick out the one thing Oda’s been desperate to make repetitively clear to us, it's that Sanji was told over and over again that he's a waste of space and air. He was locked up as a child for how "worthless" he was. He is battling his self-worth here in this chapter, which is probably what Luffy noticed.

                                                                                            The purpose of Luffy's entire speech at the end of the chapter is to make it known to Sanji just how much he needs him, which we find out at the end he needs him enough to state he can't become Pirate King without him. That’s an awful lot. In particular, take a look at the bottom three panels of page 18 on MS. Luffy says he won't let the best chef walk away on him like this. Oda directly shows us a flashback of the Vinsmoke bros pummeling Sanji for showing an interest in cooking. Then we see Sanji cry harder. He's struggling here with his demons.

                                                                                            When Oda does these arcs with heavy drama between the SHs, like he did for Nami, Robin, even Usopp, he sets up the troubled crewmate for an emotional destination to reach by the end of the arc. There's a buildup, a catharsis after they've hit their lowest point, and then positive change in their character. This is the trend. For Nami, it was learning to depend on others and ask for help. For Robin, it was strengthening her desire to live and to trust others. For Usopp, it was his insecurities and feelings of uselessness. For Sanji now of course, it's his self-worth.

                                                                                            Another thing to touch on, of course Sanji knows what Luffy is capable of when a nakama is in trouble. Luffy even says this to him on page 16, that Sanji should know better. Sanji acting strangely like this is at the heart of his concern for the very reason that Luffy has begun to understand just how much pain Sanji is in, how much he’s struggling. Obviously it's crucial that Luffy grasps this here and now.

                                                                                            So no. It's not about Sanji trusting Luffy to save him. It's about making Sanji understand that he's worth the effort and risk to be saved. Throughout this arc Sanji has been fighting his demons and losing. He’s spiraling into a dark emotional pit and it's Luffy's job to pull him out of it. That’s why Luffy said he won’t eat and won’t move from his spot after telling Sanji how much he needs him. We’ll probably see a major shift in Sanji’s character after this as he battles with himself and asks for help somehow. I think this is what Oda’s going for.

                                                                                            Sorry if I did overkill. Had a lot to say.

                                                                                            Someone give this guy an award amazing post friend and welcome officially to AP.

                                                                                            Year of Sanji, let's go!

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                                                                                              well it looks like Luffy will be sitting out of this arc with his "I WON'T MOVE OR EAT" statement. So now Sanji has to get himself out of this somehow. Maybe chopper and carrot can help though.

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                                                                                              • KageKageKing
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                                                                                                Anyone else noticed the two hills looking at the fight?XD

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                                                                                                  Luis20 @Cyclone_Baroness
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                                                                                                  @Cyclone_Baroness:

                                                                                                  There's still the problem of even if Luffy didn't come for him almost immediately Sanji is still a part of the Strawhats. Marrying.into Big Mom's family still makes it a Strawhat issue because Luffy wouldn't want to have a tie to a Yonko when he's trying to be pirate king.

                                                                                                  Correct me if I'm wrong about that by the way . It's been a few weeks since we got the specifics. Did Sanji go in the hopes of telling Big Mom no? And then gave up when his family showed up? Yes he was backed into a corner either way but there's no way Luffy wouldn't get involved at some point. Why make the situation worse?

                                                                                                  Yes, if Sanji really got married that would bring Luffy into the equation, but I don't think he was expecting Germa to blackmail him with Zeff. He probably had a plan to not get married until he had to deal with that problem. Luffy wouldn't need to get involved, because Sanji knew (or at least thought he knew) that there was no way that Luffy could learn about all this, hence the surprise about Luffy's presence in the island. He didn't knew Pekoms would tell all to Luffy & Nami (about Zeff) that made them go after him, so in Sanji's thoughts all they had was the letter.

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                                                                                                    BlackLegEd @Dranza
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                                                                                                    @Dranza:

                                                                                                    I'm kinda disgusted by how Sanji went ham on Luffy. Pure disgust, Zoro would never do this and that's why he's the vice captain in fact if Zoro saw this he'd never accept him back in the crew that's why Oda separated him from the rescue mission.

                                                                                                    One of the best chapters I've read in years.

                                                                                                    But I fully expect Sanji to redeem himself.

                                                                                                    I disagree with you and everyone saying Zoro would've stepped him. Luffy would've asked all crew members from stepping in and Zoro is probably the last one who would interfere.

                                                                                                    Successful negro doesn't need a signature.

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                                                                                                    • HeartOfDarkness
                                                                                                      HeartOfDarkness
                                                                                                      last edited by
                                                                                                      HeartOfDarkness
                                                                                                      spiral
                                                                                                      HeartOfDarkness
                                                                                                      spiral

                                                                                                      Goddamn the spoilers once again didn't do the visuals any real justice since this chapter was fucking GREAT, and extremely high on emotional-value! I can totally see this becoming a classic One Piece moment once people are ready to actually read the chapter like it's meant to instead of "well i expected Mr.Prince so anything without that is just disappointing".

                                                                                                      It's rather sad that most people would whine about Sanji, then actually bother to take the time, and properly understand why Sanji's situation is not as cut-and dry as people are making, and is not in any way close to Robin or Nami beyond just the rescuing part.

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                                                                                                        Dranza @Megaman
                                                                                                        @Megaman last edited by
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                                                                                                        Dranza
                                                                                                        spiral

                                                                                                        @Megaman:

                                                                                                        well it looks like Luffy will be sitting out of this arc with his "I WON'T MOVE OR EAT" statement. So now Sanji has to get himself out of this somehow. Maybe chopper and carrot can help though.

                                                                                                        Basically the rest of the arc Sanji will dig himself out of this mess and the swirly hats will assist where possible. Luffy won't do anything else until Sanji calls out to him.

                                                                                                        Year of Sanji, let's go!

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