Chapter 837: Luffy vs Commander Cracker

Seafarer33

Also,Brulee can appear anywhere WITH a mirror,not anywhere there's a mirror.That part seemed pretty weird to me,that would give Brulee some OP level teleportation powers.

In the end, aren't both phrases saying exactly the same thing? The difference seems really minor and, more importantly, we were shown how her power works. This, imho, is more reliable than language subtleties that depend on the translator's subjectivity. So until proven otherwise by the manga, it seems logical that Brulee can use any mirror as an exit gate to her mirror world but needs the mirror to be there in the first place. There may however be an effective range to her power regardless of where the target mirror lies, in the same way Law is limited by the size of his Room.

parklane21

@sggupta:

how do you get that?urouge was defeated by cracker.i think you may be referring to the fact that urouge is not in the seducing forest.and that i think was self evident,since we saw urouge injured in the sky island and all

http://mangastream.com/r/one_piece/837/3627/11

Brulee clearly said there that Urouge's corpse is rotting around there, implying that they have no idea that he is recuperating on an Sky Island and that he somehow escape from the Seducing Woods. But there is nothing like that said on Viz.

Read your mangas slowly so you won't miss details like this next time.

sggupta

@parklane21:

http://mangastream.com/r/one_piece/837/3627/11

Brulee clearly said there that Urouge's corpse is rotting around there, implying that they have no idea that he is recuperating on an Sky Island and that he somehow escape from the Seducing Woods. But there is nothing like that said on Viz.

Read your mangas slowly so you won't miss details like this next time.

@sggupta:

how do you get that?urouge was defeated by cracker.i think you may be referring to the fact that urouge is not in the seducing forest.and that i think was self evident,since we saw urouge injured in the sky island and all

don't know what you want to tell me when i i'm saying the same thing in my post.
i just meant that it was never an issue to me,as it seemed apparent that either Brulee was just theorising and passing that off as fact,or the translation is just wrong
you should probably read your forum posts slowly as well

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@Seafarer33:

In the end, aren't both phrases saying exactly the same thing? The difference seems really minor and, more importantly, we were shown how her power works. This, imho, is more reliable than language subtleties that depend on the translator's subjectivity. So until proven otherwise by the manga, it seems logical that Brulee can use any mirror as an exit gate to her mirror world but needs the mirror to be there in the first place. There may however be an effective range to her power regardless of where the target mirror lies, in the same way Law is limited by the size of his Room.

yeah,i guess you're right

John Doe

Did Nami just OS Brulée ?
or is that just Nami's ability that only works by OS-ing ? like Law's ability ? if he doesn't OS –>> his opponent's haki is stronger -->> he loses.

parklane21

@sggupta:

don't know what you want to tell me when i i'm saying the same thing in my post.
i just meant that it was never an issue to me,as it seemed apparent that either Brulee was just theorising and passing that off as fact,or the translation is just wrong
you should probably read your forum posts slowly as well

I'm saying that mangastream makes it seems like Urouge is defeated in the forest, with Brulee's remarks that his corpse is rotting in there since no one can supposedly get out of the suducing woods. Prompting people to think that somehow Urouge was smuggled out of there by someone or managed to escape on his own, among other things. While Viz is saying that Urouge might just be defeated on any of Big Mom's territory. I say that's pretty big deal. But nevermind, at this point I'll just give up. I don't want to turn this into an argument when I only want to add to your points.

Mr0

@John:

Fact: Every citizen of BigMom's kingdom know that Pudding is going to marry Sanji.

Suppositions: There are a lot of guests, and a lot of citizen in the country knowing about the wedding. Really think that the news about the wedding didn't spread 'round the NW ? OR AT LEAST, didn't leak ? Why would they even hide it ?
Plus, a yonkou, which -means one of the 4 most powerful pirates- is marrying her daughter with Sanji VINSMOKE and you believe that everyone in the NW doesn't know ?

Well, I'll just assume you're nitpicking my post for some reasons.

I'm a little replying to this, I missed it sorry about that.
I'm "nitpicking" your post because your theory is essentially speculation backed up by speculation and more speculation. There is hardly anything factually to base your theory on, so it seemed ridiculous to make it sound like it was the obvious continuation of the story

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John Doe

@Mr0:

I'm "nitpicking" your post because your theory is essentially speculation backed up by speculation and more speculation. so it seemed ridiculous to make it sound like it was the obvious continuation of the story

I've already said it. The only speculation in my theory is "Killer knows about the wedding." but you're trying to make it sound like it was complete bullshit.

so it seemed ridiculous to make it sound like it was the obvious continuation of the story

I didn't. You missed the line, when I say " I think…"
but I THINK, it's obvious he will try to rescue his captain, don't you ? So, doesn't matter if he gets in touch with Luffy at the wedding or later.
He won't rescue Kidd alone, he needs help. Or are you thinking that this is also speculation ? He can totally do it alone, right ?
There are even people in this thread thinking Kidd will join Kaidou's crew. Lol

yeah, I know, thank god Kaidou fell just in front of Kidd's alliance. if he didn't, Shanks could have died and there would have never been a Kidd/Luffy/Law alliance. ( well, it didn't happen yet )

Watch-man

I would love to see Luffy doing some gattling move while in Gear Fourth - Stamp Gattling as finisher of fight with Cracker would be neat

uniaka ikuzakas

I wonder if there is the ''fat'' version of gear 4. Would be fitting to fight big mom.:ninja:

Or just luffy's regular balloon form coated in armaments…

Mr0

@John:

I've already said it. The only speculation in my theory is "Killer knows about the wedding." but you're trying to make it sound like it was complete bullshit.

No, there was more speculation to your theory:

He doubts Luffy is okay with that because he knows what it implies.

We have no idea where Killer is, or what he's doing, let alone whether he's heard about the wedding, and even less that he has any idea how Luffy will react to it! He doesn't know where Luffy is or what he's doing, why would he assume he was sneaking into the wedding? There are too many logical jumps there.

I didn't. You missed the line, when I say " I think…"

Yeah, missed that, got your post confused with another one for some reason

but I THINK, it's obvious he will try to rescue his captain, don't you ? So, doesn't matter if he gets in touch with Luffy at the wedding or later.

But why Luffy? Why not literally anyone else? I get that people want to see the Kid/Law/Luffy ally fight again, but that doesn't mean that it would make sense.

He won't rescue Kidd alone, he needs help. Or are you thinking that this is also speculation ? He can totally do it alone, right ?

Come on dude, you know that wasn't what I was saying, no need to be sarcastic about it

There are even people in this thread thinking Kidd will join Kaidou's crew. Lol

yeah, I know, thank god Kaidou fell just in front of Kidd's alliance. if he didn't, Shanks could have died and there would have never been a Kidd/Luffy/Law alliance. ( well, it didn't happen yet )

Umm what? You think their alliance could have killed Shanks? Get real, if they were stomped by Kaido, they would have lost to Shanks too.

Seafarer33

@uniaka:

I wonder if there is the ''fat'' version of gear 4. Would be fitting to fight big mom.:ninja:
Or just luffy's regular balloon form coated in armaments…

…Isn't that the very definition of Gear 4 ?

Shadowgreed

For all we know the only one that was left in a good state during that fight was Apo and everybody else is in a cage in Wano.

Also, it's pretty clear (At least to me) that Law will be the one to encounter Kid and have him join the battle in Wano.

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Kaptayn

@Shadowgreed:

For all we know the only one that was left in a good state during that fight was Apo and everybody else is in a cage in Wano. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The only thing we really know is that Kidd was locked up. But what about Hawkins and Killer? Their crew?

Shadowgreed

@Kaptayn:

The only thing we really know is that Kidd was locked up. But what about Hawkins and Killer? Their crew?

There's only two options; they got locked up or were left for dead (must likely). I'd believe that Killer could be the one that was left behind and will be the one to inform Law of what happened thus forming a partial alliance that could benefit both parties.

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Medical Orbit

I wonder how many Mother's Day cards Big Mom gets

Kaido King of the Beasts

@Medical:

I wonder how many Mother's Day cards Big Mom gets

Perospero writes a lavish one complete with lots of candy treats, and Cracker coerces his other siblings into writing them.

John Doe

@Mr0:

We have no idea where Killer is, or what he's doing, let alone whether he's heard about the wedding, and even less that he has any idea how Luffy will react to it! He doesn't know where Luffy is or what he's doing, why would he assume he was sneaking into the wedding? There are too many logical jumps there.

I think every supernova know Luffy a bit, because he's the brat who punched a tenryūbito and you know, every supernova could have just died there because of him.
He also did Enies Lobby for a friend (Robin), also Impel Down and Marineford for a friend/brother (Ace) but I don't know for sure if the newspapers talked about Ace/Luffy.
Either way, he knows he punched a tenryunito for a friend and did Ennies Lobby for a friend ( well, we actually don't know if the newspapers talked about the relation with Robin).
Either way, he has seen what happened at Sabaody, he knows what he would do for a friend and so long…
but yeah, I'm not certain or anything about Killer going at this wedding, but very positive that there will be a Luffy/Law/Kidd alliance.

But why Luffy? Why not literally anyone else? I get that people want to see the Kid/Law/Luffy ally fight again, but that doesn't mean that it would make sense.

Because he knows that his target is Kaidou. http://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/793/10

Umm what? You think their alliance could have killed Shanks? Get real, if they were stomped by Kaido, they would have lost to Shanks too.

I was kind of ironic to the plot-twist Oda is ( probably ) doing.

Oda (chapter 793): Good, their target isn't the same, so no one can say the Luffy/Law/Kidd alliance is VERY convenient with a sarcastic tone.

Oda (chapter795): Okay, so Kaidou just fell from a sky-island –-that could have been anywhere but right above Kidd's island---- just right on Kidd's very little island ( we'll assume this is his island ). They're facing Kaidou, and I will somehow manage to do Law/Kidd/Luffy again.

@Shadowgreed:

There's only two options; they got locked up or were left for dead (must likely).

You know, they also could have escaped…
Maybe Hawkins looked at his cards and just thought "ok i'm fucked, not even gonna fight. just get the fuck outta here...."
And Oda had no reason not to show us Killer and Hawkins locked up ( and all their crewmates ). Plus, a supernova would never die offscreen. So, they definitely escaped (or maybe Hawkins joined Kaidou's crew but don't think he did imo. )

Aldia

@Mr0:

Umm what? You think their alliance could have killed Shanks? Get real, if they were stomped by Kaido, they would have lost to Shanks too.

Yeah.. because a big ass monster that no body could kill him and being known as the strongest creature alive in the op world is the same as a normal looking guy. Well, that's make sense :ninja:

Anyway, it's very clearly they didn't fight along side each other against Kaido. Cuz other than that there's no explanation for Apoo talking to Kaido via din din mushi and Kid being held alone

KageKageKing

@Aldia:

Anyway, it's very clearly they didn't fight along side each other against Kaido. Cuz other than that there's no explanation for Apoo talking to Kaido via din din mushi and Kid being held alone

You saying Apoo didn't joined after Kaido wooped his ass? Look at Bege.

Shadowgreed

@John:

You know, they also could have escaped…

Scaped in not an option when Oda is trying to make a point and is common sense.

Maybe Hawkins looked at his cards and just thought "ok i'm fucked, not even gonna fight. just get the fuck outta here…."

He doesn't have to look at his cards, they already knew who he was and knew they were not prepare to take him on.

And Oda had no reason not to show us Killer and Hawkins locked up ( and all their crewmates ). Plus, a supernova would never die offscreen. So, they definitely escaped (or maybe Hawkins joined Kaidou's crew but don't think he did imo. )

Oda had no reason to show us the whole squad when just by showing us Kid we readers received the message.

I never mentioned anything about them being dead, so I don't know where that came from!

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Aldia

@KageKageKing:

You saying Apoo didn't joined after Kaido wooped his ass? Look at Bege.

Kaido is a beast, so wouldn't go easy on someone. Why Apoo isn't at the same situation as Kid.. when the last time we saw him he was barely alive :ninja:

Monkey King

@Aldia:

Yeah.. because a big ass monster that no body could kill him and being known as the strongest creature alive in the op world is the same as a normal looking guy. Well, that's make sense :ninja:

Yes it does in fact make sense, because the Emperors are more or less equal forces all in the same ballpark. Otherwise their huge stalemate (even after the fall of the Whitebeard Pirates) makes no sense at all.

HacheBe

@Shadowgreed:

There's only two options; they got locked up or were left for dead (must likely). I'd believe that Killer could be the one that was left behind and will be the one to inform Law of what happened thus forming a partial alliance that could benefit both parties.

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I always thought that Luffy would be running through the castle trying to find Kiado and he would run into all of them in a prison cell and be like "what are you guys doing there?" then he would let them free so they could redeem themselves against Kaido. I don't know where you guys are getting that Killer abandoned his captain. Maybe he is not half beaten to death like Kidd but he is either holed up in a prison cell or trying to convince Kidd to ally with Kaido.

Shadowgreed

@HacheBe:

I always thought that Luffy would be running through the castle trying to find Kiado and he would run into all of them in a prison cell and be like "what are you guys doing there?" then he would let them free so they could redeem themselves against Kaido. I don't know where you guys are getting that Killer abandoned his captain. Maybe he is not half beaten to death like Kidd but he is either holed up in a prison cell or trying to convince Kidd to ally with Kaido.

I'm not the one saying that Killer abandoned his captain, I'm saying that he might be the one Oda uses to deliver the message of what happened to them.

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BarrelCrate

The other two Sweet Commanders are probably the Chocolate and Jam ministers.

blackout

@BarrelCrate:

The other two Sweet Commanders are probably the Chocolate and Jam ministers.

I think Perospero and Bobbin are the other two commanders.

parklane21

It would be nice to have other supernovas involved in this arc. IMO, Bege and Urouge are the least interesting among them and it seems that they are gonna be getting the screentime this time. Killer and/or Bonnie out of nowhere will be refreshing.

Killer could've been left for dead on that Kaidou encounter and recuperating alongside Urouge. He's near to the site. This 2 are introduced together fighting in Saobody, much like Kid and Apoo. So there's probably foreshadowing of a relationship in there.

John Doe

lol. people are like "hey, it's so obvious Hawkins and Killer are also locked up, because we don't know that". wtf.

KageKageKing

@Aldia:

Kaido is a beast, so wouldn't go easy on someone. Why Apoo isn't at the same situation as Kid.. when the last time we saw him he was barely alive :ninja:

Go easy on someone isn't the same as sparring his life, you know.

Mr0

@John:

I think every supernova know Luffy a bit, because he's the brat who punched a tenryūbito and you know, every supernova could have just died there because of him.
He also did Enies Lobby for a friend (Robin), also Impel Down and Marineford for a friend/brother (Ace) but I don't know for sure if the newspapers talked about Ace/Luffy.
Either way, he knows he punched a tenryunito for a friend and did Ennies Lobby for a friend ( well, we actually don't know if the newspapers talked about the relation with Robin).
Either way, he has seen what happened at Sabaody, he knows what he would do for a friend and so long…
but yeah, I'm not certain or anything about Killer going at this wedding, but very positive that there will be a Luffy/Law/Kidd alliance.

See I don't disagree that we'll probably see another Luffy/Law/Kid alliance, I just think that you're making too many assumptions to fuel this end-goal of yours. As it stands, you yourself have said that we don't know many of the things you present as proof, so I'm not even sure what we're debating about anymore

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@Aldia:

Yeah.. because a big ass monster that no body could kill him and being known as the strongest creature alive in the op world is the same as a normal looking guy. Well, that's make sense :ninja:

Yes, it does make sense. Let me remind you of a few things you seem to have forgotten.
Shanks is also one of the 4 Yonko, just like Kaido
Shanks went and stopped Kaido from attacking Whitebeard during the war, meaning Kaido respects his strength enough to not want to fight
Just because he's a normal looking man, doesn't mean he isn't insanely powerful, hell look at Rayleigh, Roger, and the strawhats (who will inevitably be the strongest crew in the sea, once Luffy becomes Pirate King)

Anyway, it's very clearly they didn't fight along side each other against Kaido. Cuz other than that there's no explanation for Apoo talking to Kaido via din din mushi and Kid being held alone

Again, wrong. Look at what happened to Capone, he tried to go against Big Mom, and ended up working for her.
Now I wonder if that could have happened to Apoo ? It's clear to me that they tried to fight, lost, and Apoo being cowardly like he has been shown to be, decided to join Kaido's crew.

Md-Martin

@blackout:

I think Perospero and Bobbin are the other two commanders.

I doubt it. At least in Perospero's case. No point in introducing the character with the full intro box and not mentioning the generals when he would introduce them two chapters later.

uniaka ikuzakas

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Watch-man

I wonder if Green Bull will try to interrupt Big Mom wedding.

Marines by all means should not just silently wait while Yonko and Germa 66 have an alliance by wedding.

FacialTissuez1994

I get the feeling that though it might not happen soon, we might get a Nami vs Brulee, since they're both "witches" who rely on trickery and whatnot.

John Doe

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Monkey King

@parklane21:

It would be nice to have other supernovas involved in this arc. IMO, Bege and Urouge are the least interesting among them and it seems that they are gonna be getting the screentime this time. Killer and/or Bonnie out of nowhere will be refreshing.

Urogue is a fallen priest, and of the Blikan race like Ener and his men.
There's lots of potentially super interesting story to him.

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@Mr0:

Shanks went and stopped Kaido from attacking Whitebeard during the war, meaning Kaido respects his strength enough to not want to fight

Or Shanks and Kaidou fought, meaning Shanks and his men held Kaidou and his men off long enough for them to leave Whitebeard alone. And the fight ended inconclusively.

Kaizoku_Ou

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Mr0

@Monkey:

Or Shanks and Kaidou fought, meaning Shanks and his men held Kaidou and his men off long enough for them to leave Whitebeard alone. And the fight ended inconclusively.

Yeah also a possibility, all I was meaning to convey was that Shanks isn't to be overlooked just because he isn't a giant monster like Kaido.

Don Quichotte De Flamingo

@Watch-man:

I wonder if Green Bull will try to interrupt Big Mom wedding.

Marines by all means should not just silently wait while Yonko and Germa 66 have an alliance by wedding.

Maybe having some spy there, so that they can later report what happened.
Otherwise i doubt they would bring an admiral to such a wedding, where he would be greatly outnumbered.
Also the marine knows not to mess with BM when they don´t have to.

lizard81288

I find it interesting Luffy used Gear 4 on a commander. I wonder how he'll take big mom down if he is having trouble with her underlings.

HacheBe

@Shadowgreed:

I'm not the one saying that Killer abandoned his captain, I'm saying that he might be the one Oda uses to deliver the message of what happened to them.

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It is a possibility but the way I look at it is if Luffy went against Kaido do you think that Zoro would not try and fight alongside him and go down with him? Obviously we don't know the dynamics between Killer and Kidd to say that he has as much loyalty but I don't deem it likely that Killer left his captain to Kaido. Maybe abandoning him was too harsh a word but maybe Killer is smart enough to cut his losses and come back for his captain. I could see Sanji doing a similar thing. But i'm more inclined to say that Killer is in a jail cell somewhere trying to get Kidd to ally himself with Kaido or vise versa.

Watch-man

@Don:

Maybe having some spy there, so that they can later report what happened.
Otherwise i doubt they would bring an admiral to such a wedding, where he would be greatly outnumbered.
Also the marine knows not to mess with BM when they don´t have to.

Marines sending Vergo on certain-death mission? Suicide Squad made out of traitors and pirates in One Piece

Shadowgreed

@HacheBe:

It is a possibility but the way I look at it is if Luffy went against Kaido do you think that Zoro would not try and fight alongside him and go down with him?

I do not see something like this playing out for the simple fact that this battle will take place in Wano, I'd be on board if the battle were to be in any other place then Wano but Wano is all about testing Zoro's full potential. (When talking about Zoro's character)

Obviously we don't know the dynamics between Killer and Kidd to say that he has as much loyalty but I don't deem it likely that Killer left his captain to Kaido.

I don't think that Killer's loyalty should be put to the test, him being made a Supernova just like Zoro speaks volumes about his character.

Maybe abandoning him was too harsh a word but maybe Killer is smart enough to cut his losses and come back for his captain. I could see Sanji doing a similar thing. But i'm more inclined to say that Killer is in a jail cell somewhere trying to get Kidd to ally himself with Kaido or vise versa.

Well, it was shown that Killer is the one who makes the plans/preparations on the crew (brains) but I don't see him playing it safe just so he can get to save his captain later on, I don't see any Strawhats doing that either, to me they are the type of people who will fall along side their captains even if they are greatly outnumbered.

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Underworld1991

@Watch-man:

I wonder if Green Bull will try to interrupt Big Mom wedding.

Marines by all means should not just silently wait while Yonko and Germa 66 have an alliance by wedding.

Same I'm really wanna see Green Bull hoping this Admiral is female. Since we had a female Yonko and Shichibukai.