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Common, the whole "Luffy only needs a bit of food to recover" is just a joke made by Oda in a sbs.
The dude was still tired at the end of Dressrossa after 3days of sleeping and eating (for instance).
I can understand that you don't buy this argument 
But what do you make of the steam like aura that comes out of Big Mom's hand, precisely the hand that blocked Luffy's punch.
I dont see why Luffy's steam would stick to her. Never happened. So it's something else.
You're overthinking it. Oda needed to set up a instant defeat that lead into the bomb save. Luffy using G4 was a easy way to have him incapacitated. G4 lasts as long as the plot demands it to.
I guess that's what I have a problem with. Instant defeat for the plot makes the development of SH seem like it was hardly anything. And G4 explanation made it seem like he has a certain reservoir of haki that he uses, and when he uses it all that's when he's incapacitated. Him using G4 for 2 seconds shouldn't drain his entire reservoir.
Anyway. Criticism of mine isn't that they got defeated, it was bound to happen. And i assume since it was offpanel they might have stood a longer fight, but it seems like they were complete overpowered like they were still ants pre timeskip. And this arc none of the SHs really could display their strength.
And what OP always excelled at was having a good understanding of power levels and growth (as opposed to something like Bleach). This arc really muddles it for me, personally
edit: yeah, why da f*ck didn't luffy just g4 and flew everyone out!? He was so fast even Doflamingo couldn't see him.
I can understand that you don't buy this argument
But what do you make of the steam like aura that comes out of Big Mom's hand, precisely the hand that blocked Luffy's punch.
I dont see why Luffy's steam would stick to her. Never happened. So it's something else.
In my interpretation from the sound BZZZT, that is the electricity she is gathering, the same she uses to smash Judge. However it does seem weird since she had to get her hand in Zeus to do that (so where did the electricity come from before?)
Maybe you're right, and the soul soul fruit absorbs enemy stamina. It would make the fruit useful in combat against non-fodder, and it would make her really fucking scary (a thing impervious to damage that, if you manage to hit, also makes you exhausted).
Common, the whole "Luffy only needs a bit of food to recover" is just a joke made by Oda in a sbs.
The dude was still tired at the end of Dressrossa after 3days of sleeping and eating (for instance).
Did you forget the Cracker fight. Luffy was able to recover by eating the Cracker clones even though he used G4 and that fight went on for 11 hours.
I can go with luffy being tired \ not 100%
I think some people forget just how much luffy has done this arc so far .
He fought cracker for hours , he then hold a whole bunch of damage from sanji , then took on a army etc etc .
He get some sleep but not as much as we normal see him get after so much work .
Did you forget the Cracker fight. Luffy was able to recover by eating the Cracker clones even though he used G4 and that fight went on for 11 hours.
Even then he was not a 100% afterwards like nami said when he was fighting sanji.
In my interpretation from the sound BZZZT, that is the electricity she is gathering, the same she uses to smash Judge. However it does seem weird since she had to get her hand in Zeus to do that (so where did the electricity come from before?)
Maybe you're right, and the soul soul fruit absorbs enemy stamina. It would make the fruit useful in combat against non-fodder, and it would make her really fucking scary (a thing impervious to damage that, if you manage to hit, also makes you exhausted).
Stamina is physical, the fruit is literally called Soul Soul No Mi
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Did you forget the Cracker fight. Luffy was able to recover by eating the Cracker clones even though he used G4 and that fight went on for 11 hours.
And after that he was shown not even being able to walk straight, after trying to rip off his arms
Stamina is physical, the fruit is literally called Soul Soul No Mi
Okay but what she really steals is "life force". Maybe she can also steal energy. I guess we need a japanese speaker to tell us if the two concepts might be related from the original spelling!
@RickM.:
Can't wait to see how they will escape. Also we'll finally see Judge's eyebrows!
Ah! Be prepared for the unholy truth underneath his helmet. :ninja:
!
You guys just need to wait for the anime where Luffy goes G4 for like 20 minutes.
I dont like the fact that everyone was off screened, but at the same time it felt good to see the Big Mom pirates REALLY being on top of things. And the fact that elaborating even further on this already convoluted and long winded escape would be too much for me.
Kinda confusing why Luffy went at Big Mom with G4 when he knew he would be powerless a minute later. Nonetheless, it was a good chapter.
Seems like something else is sapping his energy, since he seemed surprised that he was loosing energy.
Where does Germa go from here if Judge is in fact dead? Does the oldest son take over if they make it out of this alive? How forgiving would Sanji be to his brother. Siblings tease each other will he just chalk it up as just mean older brothers and have a contentious relationship?
edit: yeah, why da f*ck didn't luffy just g4 and flew everyone out!? He was so fast even Doflamingo couldn't see him.
I think that nerf began since the Cracker fight. Even though I enjoyed it, he should have been able to fly around the armor.
Ah! Be prepared for the unholy truth underneath his helmet. :ninja:
Now I really want this to happen.
edit: yeah, why da f*ck didn't luffy just g4 and flew everyone out!? He was so fast even Doflamingo couldn't see him.
I would hazard a guess that Gear 4 is only extremely fast for powerful bursts on short distances, but that it cannot sustain that speed for a very long time. Look at when Luffy flew after Doffy on Dressrosa. That didn't feel slow, but it wasn't mind-blowing fast either. Only when he reached close quarters did he engage fast maneuvers, or at least that's how I remember the fight.
Okay but what she really steals is "life force". Maybe she can also steal energy. I guess we need a japanese speaker to tell us if the two concepts might be related from the original spelling!
Life force in terms of the soul, meaning your soul has a certain capacity of years and she manipulates that.
@The:
While it would've been nice to see more of Big Mom's crew fight, seeing the results of their domination was still pretty great to see. If Luffy taking on Big Mom later will actually be something that happens, then it would make sense for Oda not to show them off too much, and just use this moment to show how even with the alliance taking on a Yonko will be a huge struggle. Overall I'm happy with this outcome, as there was a victory against a commander but showed that this will not be one sided fights like we have been getting, and even with a victory the winner will not really be up for fighting any more. I'm hoping with all this build up the actual fight against Kaido's crew will be one to remember, especially if we can actually have focus on the fights.
If they face them again would a time skip need to be involved? I ask because Sanji seemed to be holding his own against Aladdin, if they fought again unless he one shots Aladdin the growth needed to defeat him would be minuscule. You were doing alright last time you fought him, now with your power up and training you just beat him. Perhaps Oda would have them fight 2v1 to show the SH growth since the last fight. Just following the thought process of where things could go if they fought again.
Where does Germa go from here if Judge is in fact dead? Does the oldest son take over if they make it out of this alive? How forgiving would Sanji be to his brother. Siblings tease each other will he just chalk it up as just mean older brothers and have a contentious relationship?
I'd like to think that Reiju becomes the next leader of Germa. The three others don't really strike me as the type to govern a nation.
The face of a Straw Hat.
Life force in terms of the soul, meaning your soul has a certain capacity of years and she manipulates that.
Another thought: when Moria steals shadows people faint for days, so maybe Mom is stealing some life force at every hit and this is very stressing for the victim?
Good chapter, a shame I couldn't resist the spoilers this week.
Man, I love Big Mom. One of my favorite characters already, so I'm really glad to see everything is pointing to she not be treated as fodder before this arc is over.
BM Pirates, so good to see they actually winning for once. I am still annoyed by the fact every time they manage to do something right it is offscreen (Cracker manage to overpower Luffy for 12 HOURS? Let's offscreen that and only go back when Luffy is about to turn things), but who knows? Maybe Oda is avoiding to show them fighting so he can save that for later.
In the spoilers thread, some people were mad the SH are apparently going to be saved by luck (the Tamatebako) instead of their own efforts, but I am happy it ended like that… at least assuming it will be over now.
Not only I would think they managing to escape a Yonkou crew with only half their members would be a bit ridiculous, it would also make their fight against the Beast Pirates less of a threat. They are apparently going to leave WCI with what they came to recover, but only thanks to luck. As long as their own effort goes, this would have been an utter failure and this will make their impending fight with the Beast Pirates more tense (even people like Nami and Chopper were really carefree regarding fighting BM, maybe now they will realize they can't underestimate a Yonkou like that).
Another thought: when Moria steals shadows people faint for days, so maybe Mom is stealing some life force at every hit and this is very stressing for the victim?
Then the scene with Jinbe would lose all its meaning.
Big Mom, please ignore the bomb for a second and finish off Niji. Just break him in half or take a bite out of him
Great chapter! Tons of action! I knew they didn't stand a chance but I still didn't expect the allied forces to go down that easily. It's gonna take something pretty massive to beat Kaido…
This isn't the first time Luffy was holding his own and then had a chapter end with his utter defeat. Remember Punk Hazard? There's a good possibility we get a partial flashback of the fight, like with Caesar and Crocodile to show just how he lost. Or maybe not, like Brook vs Big Mom.
But this chapter looks like it is setting up a future rematch with Big Mom. When this will happen is anyone's guess, but maybe this is setting up an Elbaf arc where Big Mom is involved in some way?
Also, I was correct that the bomb would lead to a castle collapse. Will this lead to a few choice 1-on-1s? I know Big Mom will be nigh unstoppable but the others might be fair game in the confusion now that they can't gang up on the crew & co.
Did you forget the Cracker fight. Luffy was able to recover by eating the Cracker clones even though he used G4 and that fight went on for 11 hours.
He didn't recover though. His basic stamina made him last 11hours and got trashed by the fodder enraged army right after.
Okay he used his gear4 all over the night but with many many many many many breaks. The food might have helped in a way, but Luffy isn't a Mario boss no. He can't go forever on his gear4 with unlimited supplies of food. So yeah, the "Luffy only needs food to keep going on" is a joke but also has a bit of truth, but this truth/fact has never (and hope will never) be stretched to the point of having Luffy achieving big plotines thanks to food. In other words we will (I mean, I hope) never hear "omg, he defeated the 3admirals one by one thanks to meat!!! OMG!!!!!!! "
I can understand that you don't buy this argument
But what do you make of the steam like aura that comes out of Big Mom's hand, precisely the hand that blocked Luffy's punch.
I dont see why Luffy's steam would stick to her. Never happened. So it's something else.
Well, maybe she did something yeah. Now that I see the steam around her hand. Luffy was still exhausted but yeah okay, maybe she did some wizard stuff and drained the stamina out of his body.
@The:
I'd like to think that Reiju becomes the next leader of Germa. The three others don't really strike me as the type to govern a nation.
Perhaps the oldest rules with an bronze fist, not as absolute as dad but not as soft as Reiju.
@.access:
Good chapter, a shame I couldn't resist the spoilers this week.
Man, I love Big Mom. One of my favorite characters already, so I'm really glad to see everything is pointing to she not be treated as fodder before this arc is over.
BM Pirates, so good to see they actually winning for once. I am still annoyed by the fact every time they manage to do something right it is offscreen (Cracker manage to overpower Luffy for 12 HOURS? Let's offscreen that and only go back when Luffy is about to turn things), but who knows? Maybe Oda is avoiding to show them fighting so he can save that for later..
Possibly a rematch in a few "years" displaying the growth, Luffy fodderizing Cracker with just a regular punch. Nami taking out Brulee and the sword girl with no problem.
If they face them again would a time skip need to be involved? I ask because Sanji seemed to be holding his own against Aladdin, if they fought again unless he one shots Aladdin the growth needed to defeat him would be minuscule. You were doing alright last time you fought him, now with your power up and training you just beat him. Perhaps Oda would have them fight 2v1 to show the SH growth since the last fight. Just following the thought process of where things could go if they fought again.
I don't think there will be any large boosts like after the time skip. The main thing will be having numbers so you don't have to worry about being attacked my multiple people. The crew can probably take on one of the lesser members by themselves, but when you have two or more others that could come in at any moment as back up that makes the fights even harder. Also, with the mindset of fighting instead of defending/running will make a bit of a difference as well, as they can focus on the fight instead of trying to find an opening for them to run away. The only other advantage would be going in they know a bit more about Big Moms crew and their abilities, so they can plan on who may work better against who.
I'm also wondering how Oda would have the Big Mom stuff come up again for Luffy to fight her again. Seems like the logical conclusion would be the whole idea with the destruction of Fishman island, but I wonder how that will be set up in the end.
Just saw the front page didnt even start reading the chapter and I came to write that Bartolomeo is one of if not the greatest character of Manga history.
Haha love the guy, absolutely love him 
Guys! What if the castle falls on Sheep's House and totally breaks it? Given that the building is still around, which isn't unlikely given Big Mom's obsession with Carmel.
Or is she pissed enough as it is? 
What a great chapter. I absolutely loved that backstabbing among Big Mom's guests. First Du Feld going after the Tamate Box while everyone's distracted, then Stussy being revealed as a CP0 agent, Morgan trying to catch his swoop but being caught and having to write a story convenient to the WG… Just great. Then the last ditch attempt to escape, Luffy behaving like Ace and falling for Big Mom's bait, just going back to get in one good punch to show he is no pushover, and by the end the Allied Forces failing miserably to escape. Utter domination by an Emperor's crew, just what we needed to see. So far, the crew had been doing a great job of picking small skirmishes and hit-and-run tactics and pulled off a number of successes against the Big Mom Pirates. But just like Nami had been telling Luffy, in a full on confrontation, they stood no chance. They did it in order to save the Vinsmokes and they've paid for it, only to be saved by the bell named Tamate Box blowing up and causing the castle to collapse, as some had predicted. Very enjoyable chapter, one of my favourites lately. Plus, more Kaido hype is always good. I'm really looking forward to how they manage to recover and escape Totto Land, even with the castle collapsing.
This chapter is BIG NEWS!
Btw… what WAS in the box?
Also, I thought Gear 4 wore Luffy out like that depending how long he was in that state. He was just in it for seconds, so what gives? Or is it like, he can be in it for seconds or hours and still have to recover for 10 minutes no matter what? It seems like a little forced writing so far.
What's in the box…what's in the BOXXXXX.
Either way, good chapter. Feels like Whole Cake is starting to wrap up, which is good. They've been hyping up Kaido too much to be the Luffy will take down to have it be Big Mom.
Ok, I accept now Sanji is fodder and the Monster Trio theme of Strawhats just lost to Monster Duo theme of the whole other crews in the series.
I expect Luffy to recover very fast as he didn't deplete all his haki but still need time to refresh.
This chapter is BIG NEWS!
Btw… what WAS in the box?http://www.16bitarena.com/boxbreak.png
Also, I thought Gear 4 wore Luffy out like that depending how long he was in that state. He was just in it for seconds, so what gives? Or is it like, he can be in it for seconds or hours and still have to recover for 10 minutes no matter what? It seems like a little forced writing so far.
We already knew what was in the box. The original Energy Steroids were in it, which the New Fishman Pirates mass produced.
As for Gear 4th, as others have said it appears that Big Mom can drain someone's stamina. Looking at her hand after she blocks his it, a steamy substance seems to be radiating off it it making a strange sound. immediately after this Luffy loses his power and changes back.
We already knew what was in the box. The original Energy Steroids were in it, which the New Fishman Pirates mass produced.
As for Gear 4th, as others have said it appears that Big Mom can drain someone's stamina. Looking at her hand after she blocks his it, a steamy substance seems to be radiating off it it making a strange sound. immediately after this Luffy loses his power and changes back.
You're def right about that first part. I can accept that second part if so– just wish it was named!
Everyone except Judge off-panneled and basically 99% of apforums called the box explosion toppling the mountain…
The chapter started out well, but the last few panels are simply disgusting.
Also, I thought Gear 4 wore Luffy out like that depending how long he was in that state. He was just in it for seconds, so what gives? Or is it like, he can be in it for seconds or hours and still have to recover for 10 minutes no matter what? It seems like a little forced writing so far.
I would venture there are two distinct side effects to dropping out of gear 4:
Common Oda, all I wanted was some badass scene for Sanji to show that he is of the same tier as the Monster trio…that's all I wanted this arc...and it looks like it won't be happening...sigh
It's a shame that Du Feld had to "bite za dusto." Visually, he was one of my favorites, next to Big Bird Morgans.
Sanji is going to have nightmares about that genie guy.
He doesn't seem to fare well against those guys with full-body haki (hint-hint, Sanji)
Also Du Feld has to be dead now. Shot by an assassin and having a mountain fall on him…
Everyone except Judge off-panneled and basically 99% of apforums called the box explosion toppling the mountain…
The chapter started out well, but the last few panels are simply disgusting.
So, people predicting one event now makes it disgusting? Would you like to have more pages of everyone fighting anyone and their mothers and drag out this escape for a further chapter, when the fights showed all they needed to show? They tried to fight, the BM crew overwhelmed them. Easy peasy. Big Mom herself pwned Judge in a single strike, basically. Followed by Niji and Yonji. Katakuri took out Ichiji after he tried to uselessly attack him. Usually, when enemies overwhelm protagonists like this, it's off paneled. You see a bit and then jump to the consequence. But this talk is all about opinions anyway.
@Myu:
Ok, I accept now Sanji is fodder and the Monster Trio theme of Strawhats just lost to Monster Duo theme of the whole other crews in the series.
I expect Luffy to recover very fast as he didn't deplete all his haki but still need time to refresh.
It's still three , now Jinbei is included in Strawhats
Now Sanji becomes the quartet weaklings , joining Nami Usopp Chopper
Something is indeed draining Luffy of his power (haki?) before Sanji pulls him back, and it isn't Big Mom, it's her hat.
The spoilers kinda made it sound like Ichiji kinda stood a chance.
Looooool
@Mr.:
Sanji is going to have nightmares about that genie guy.
He doesn't seem to fare well against those guys with full-body haki (hint-hint, Sanji)
Also Du Feld has to be dead now. Shot by an assassin and having a mountain fall on him…
Pell could take like three assassins and five mountains.
Everyone except Judge off-panneled and basically 99% of apforums called the box explosion toppling the mountain…
The chapter started out well, but the last few panels are simply disgusting.
you do understand that you were able to predict it because it was set up so much in advance do you?
while i do agree that part of an author's job is to surprise the audience (i'm looking at you togashi), that dosn't mean that everything must come out of nowhere…it's actually a point in oda's favor that he is used to set up things instead of making things happen out of nowhere...sometime he still manages to deceive us,sometime he can't.
also,the tamatebako was setup years ago and people started to "predict" the explosion and the destruction of the castle since the box fell from the roof...2 chapters ago?
compared to the amount of chapters that box was in the story,it's not really that much.
Obviously everyone we actually do care about will escape here, and they got what they came for. What will be the point in taking down BM after Kaidou? I guess the reason probably is to be the best/strongest, or is there some other motivation?
In one way it feels somewhat weird to even have this arc. Not necessarily bad, just a bit different.
We always knew it would happen, just not the when exactly.
wow, Stussy a CP-AIGIS 0 don't see that coming.
and Tamatebako is the very embodiment of plot device lol.
very fun chapter !!!
Usually, when enemies overwhelm protagonists like this, it's off paneled. You see a bit and then jump to the consequence. But this talk is all about opinions anyway.
I disagree, skipping to the consequence makes the story less appealing.
For example, I enjoyed their Shabondy defeat. They were totally outclassed, actually making me believe "oh, they are doomed". Would have been pretty insignificant if all of it got skipped after Luffy being blocked by Sentoumaru and Brook couldn´t hit Borsalino.
Recently, we at least had the terrific sequence of Luffy being flattened by 2 gigantic haki-fists after he got caught off-guard by the book illusion. Even though I rooted for him to beat the whole army and stay there to keep his promise to Sanji, that defeat was well-done.
Now this ending here is just weak from my perspective. Yes it´s just my personal opinion. I am not mad or anything, just a bit disappointed. And yeah the box doing exactly what everyone expected is unexciting, just like reading the chapter after spoilers.
Since the beginning, I was expecting BM to mop the floor with them just to showcase they got extremely lucky to escape alive…skipping how they get owned is unsatisfactory. Except for that missing part, the chapter was really good.
Anyway, I´ve been feeling this for a while, One Piece has become too large for a forced weekly serialization and would require at least 3x the number of pages per wek to keep its high quality, but it´s not humanly possible for the author to do that in that time frame.
Way too much stuff that would be surely amazing to read is simply skipped these days :sad:
its simple: Marco will train Luffy on how awake his fruit «hes going to be trained by the two right hands of the strongest crews ever» and then he is going to be capable of fighting those guys.
