What did Luffy say?

Monkey King

I feel like this little bit in the Luffy/Sabo/Ace flashback is routinely forgotten and remains really overlooked.
I was rereading the flashback recently and stumbled over it again surprised.
Remember this?

If the images don't show up for you, the chapter is 585 (volume 60). The 12th and 13th pages.

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!

The boys are yelling out their ambitions in front of eachother. Ace goes first, then Luffy takes his turn and…
...Oda cuts away ...and cuts back to Ace and Sabo's reaction of confusion and surprise.
What the heck could Luffy have said that would cause that reaction? Especially since they already know what we already know, that he wants to be the King of Pirates. Which naturally Oda wouldn't have hidden anyway.
So Luffy said something else...

...but what???

I often say One Piece is a celebration of the cliches of shonen/adventure stories, one that follows them and executes them well. But there are things about it that are very abnormal.
And just how mysterious Luffy actually is to us the reader is a big one. This isn't in a Goku way where he has a secret backstory...but Goku is as clueless to this as the reader. Luffy knows things we don't that just pop up later in the story and shock us (Ace in Alabasta, Garp in Water7). And here our main character declaring I guess a more detailed specific form of his dreams...and we don't get to see it.

What the heck did that boy say.

hosemisnuba

I really hope this is something Oda expands upon. Maybe he fully explained what he believed it meant to be Pirate King or something. On the same note, has Oda ever shown Luffy having an inner monologue outside of gags?

MrPecans

No! I just re-read that SBS corner question even! He never has! Oda says its because "he's a man of action" and will always say what he's thinking or act before he thinks. I love it.

Monkey King

@hosemisnuba:

Maybe he fully explained what he believed it meant to be Pirate King or something.

Something like this sounds right. We already glimpsed how much more…different or complex Luffy's idea of that was with what he said to Rayleigh.
But that had to be a glimpse.
I feel like what exactly it is will be key to the motivations that actually involve Luffy personally in the final conflicts of the series. That expand his motives beyond simply reaching Raftel and the treasure.

K. Kira XXIII

Maybe he mentions something specific too. Like I want to be the Pirate King and free the world from its chains. There is also the instance when Shanks mentions to Rayleigh that Luffy said the exact same thing as Roger did once. If Shanks joined Roger's crew just before his second trip to the grandline, it might have something to do with Roger's "speech" before they embarked on the second journey towards Raftel. The words could also be when they got to Raftel and discovered the Void century.

I can't see the page you linked though. I would like to see it again.

Hanz

which chapter are these from exactly? because the pictures aren't showing up. but interesting observation nonetheless.

Monkey King

Oh yeah sorry if the images aren't showing up for some people.
I edited the OP to include the volume/chapter/pages.

Sognatore

This scene has been bugging me forever too, so I am happy this is brought!

I always figured that whatever Luffy said then, must have been the same thing Shanks referenced to Rayleigh, when he told him that he had seen Luffy say the exact same things as Roger did. It was never specified then either what exactly Luffy said that impressed Shanks so much…

!

If we ever find out the answer to this, and whoever threw the note at Chopper during Punk Hazard I'll be very relieved…

The Tenth Strawhat

I always took Ace and Sabo's reactions as "You wanna be the King of the Pirates?! That's crazy!" since anyone else who hears Luffy's dream for the first time has a really dumbfounded look on their face. But Luffy's exclamation of his dream would probably get a rise of anger out of Ace since he hates his own father who is the Pirate King, which didn't happen, so it may be a more profound definition of his dream.

I agree with MK saying that whatever Luffy's true intentions for his dream will be his driving force towards the end of the series.

Btw, the pictures aren't showing up in the spoilers.

EvoWarrior5

@Sognatore:

If we ever find out the answer to this, and whoever threw the note at Chopper during Punk Hazard I'll be very relieved…

That was Law. IIRC his speech quirk was on it, which confirmed that.

I am also very curious as to what Luffy said. There has to be more to it. Oda will amaze us with the answer some day, I'm sure of it. I have no theories on it, beyond what people have already said in this thread about it moving beyond simply saying "I want to be Pirate King". I like the idea that it might be linked to his motivations for the final war.

MrPecans

I'm hoping it is something like that. It's his definition of Pirate King (and Oda's amazing comedic timing with him) that have elevated Luffy above your average Goku for me as a fighting-shounen protag.

Kylor

Huh. When I first read the chapter, I took the omission as a sort of gag thing, like it was Oda saying, "you all already know what Luffy says here, so I'll just skip to the reactions." But looking back at the chapter (link in the OP didn't show up for me so I used the Viz translation, no idea what the others say) Luffy says, "I WANT to be…" Want. Now, while Luffy's regular catchphrase is "I'm GONNA be king of the pirates," or the other variation that comes up sometimes, "I'm the man who WILL BECOME king of the pirates," it's possible that the version in this chapter is just what he said as a kid and he changed it later to be more definitive... but still, if he's just talking about being king of the pirates, I do believe this is the first time he's ever left any room for error. So yeah, it's highly likely that he's talking about something else here. No idea what it is, but it could be something more vague or abstract than what we've normally seen from him. I'll have to think more on this later, but it's pretty clear that Oda put that difference in there for a reason.

Any translators here wanna talk about the wording? Guys? Anyone?

EDIT: Just checked volume one, Luffy was saying "I'm gonna be king of the pirates" ever since the first chapter, which takes place before this one. So it's even more likely that what he wants to be is something else .

Hanz

just watched it's anime counterpart episode 496. same thing happened, he was muted by the sounds of the wave.
this is definitely something oda wants to get back to later down the line.

Don_Freecs

@Monkey:

they already know what that he wants to be the King of Pirates.

Did they ?

I thought it was the first time he told his dream to his brothers.

MrPecans

I haven't gotten there again in my re-read and I don't have it handy, but I remember it the same. I still think there is reason to believe that Luffy said something a little extra.

Kaptayn

@Monkey:

What the heck did that boy say.

Ring-ding-ding-ding-ding-ding-ding

Jabberwok

I think you guys are on to something, but at this point in his life what has Luffy been exposed to that could drive him to desire change, as some are suggesting? Luffy seems very much the happy-go-lucky type that speaks his mind so it would seem odd that we haven't heard anything else about it.

It's possible this all relates back to who his mother is, why his father started the Revolutionaries, and why Garp was left as his guardian.

King Cannon

@Don_Freecs:

Did they ?

I thought it was the first time he told his dream to his brothers.

He says here he wants to become the strongest pirate.

Regardless, it's weird that the whole thing was hidden. Even before meeting Ace and Sabo, Luffy was already proclaiming to become Pirate King, so it would be pointless for it to not be something else.

Vectorkov

@Jabberwok:

It's possible this all relates back to who his mother is, why his father started the Revolutionaries, and why Garp was left as his guardian.

I have no idea what he would have said, but surely it has something to do with at least one of these.

Maybe "tamago jiken" (egg disaster/incident) is a subtle clue… (it isn't).

Don_Freecs

@King:

He says here he wants to become the strongest pirate.

Well, he didn't say he wanted to be pirate king then.

Monkey King

@Hanz:

just watched it's anime counterpart episode 496. same thing happened, he was muted by the sounds of the wave.
this is definitely something oda wants to get back to later down the line.

Ah I was super curious about that, thanks for checking on it. More evidence something major is hidden there.

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@Don_Freecs:

Well, he didn't say he wanted to be pirate king then.

Why on earth would Oda conceal Luffy saying he wants to be the Pirate King.
Add on Kylor's really good post and Tenth Strawhat's point that Ace wouldn't react like that… its very simply not talking about being Pirate King.

King Cannon

@Don_Freecs:

Well, he didn't say he wanted to be pirate king then.

It's essentially a synonym. Most people in OP would equate the Pirate King as the biggest, most badass pirate out there.

Luffy has his own reasons and interpretations, but it's not up to the other characters to know that.

Don_Freecs

@King:

It's essentially a synonym. Most people in OP would equate the Pirate King as the biggest, most badass pirate out there.

Well, even if it's a synonym, hmm, well, the title of "pirate king" gives chill to people, so I don't think it's the same.

But well, I guess we have to ask a japanese fella on the forum what is written then.

@Monkey:

Why on earth would Oda conceal Luffy saying he wants to be the Pirate King.
Add on Kylor's really good post and Tenth Strawhat's point that Ace wouldn't react like that… its very simply not talking about being Pirate King.

Well, I also was very suspicious on this at the time. I had also wondered why this scene was cut.
So I had searched in the previous chapters if he already said he wanted to be the pirate king, and he didn't.

Then, I just thought that maybe something is hidden there, but that could also be, just for making a nice scene. Luffy's voice being cut by the sound of the waves, it's nice, isn't it? Beautiful moment.

And either way, what could he have said that was so shocking ? Is that something so shocking that the author is craving for us to see ? Is that gonna transcend me when I'll hear it ?
And he didn't tell his crewmates about his relatives - Ace, Sabo and Garp - but he always told them he wanted to be the pirate king. Why would he hide something ? So, is he hiding a bigger scheme for all this time ? Does he even have the maturity to do so ?

And what did he say to Shanks ? well, it seems he just said this
http://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/1/47
http://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/1/48
because it's just after that very moment that he decides to give to Luffy his hat.

but yeah, wtf. how could that be the exact some words that Roger once said ? maybe it wasn't the exact same words but just something like "I'm gonna be the best" which is completely random….. or maybe something like "I'll conquer all the seas".

And Ace wanted to make Newgate the next pirate king, so it's like he had a grudge against the pirate king title. And he himself, wanted to be a pirate, if he hated his father that much, he would have been a marine....

As for Kylor's post, well, he still could have said "I want to be the pirate king". But well, I guess, a japanese has to answer this. But still, whatever is written in japanese, Luffy could have just said he wanted to be the pirate king.

King Cannon

It's actually kinda surprising that no one ever noticed that Shanks' line about Luffy repeating Gol D. Roger's words at the time.

Roger should have been already a big deal at the time Shanks joined, with a good enough crew to become Pirate King (plus, Pirate King dream is not unique to Luffy). Luffy's words were most likely something more specific.

Robby

@Sognatore:

If we ever find out the answer to this, and whoever threw the note at Chopper during Punk Hazard I'll be very relieved…

That was Law. There was never any mystery to that at all except from people who confused the issue by insisting it must be Monet. (who was obviously secretly sweet and kind and knowingly letting chopper go so she could be the next crewmate.)

Since the very next chapter, a total of like 4 pages later, it was clarified that Law's chains weren't seastone and he had his powers, and the note appeared out of nowhere.

It's NOT a mystery.

Don_Freecs

And in the mangareader translation, Ace says " of all the things… you could come out with..."
http://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/585/22

So, it's not like he was very fond of what Luffy said.

Kaworu

"I wanna be a Peace Main!"
"I wanna be the very best!"
"I wanna be the D's ____!"

Yeah it's a strange panel. I have a strong feeling it's related to all the D. stuff. That's the only thing to me that could've been bizarre enough to warrant those bewildered reactions.

MrPecans

@Don_Freecs:

So, is he hiding a bigger scheme for all this time ? Does he even have the maturity to do so ?

I wouldn't say he's hiding something (nor has he ever hidden anything), just that whatever it is he's thinking he's never considered relevant enough to say. Its never come up organically. Just like his family stuff.

Riccardo

Well, Ace looks surprised and Sabo is laughing, so it could be something that sounds very silly and also ends up doing. They just heard Sabo's secret, so maybe something like "I wanna punch all royalties in the face".

evelyne

@Monkey:

I was rereading the flashback recently and stumbled over it again surprised.

So you were rereading the flashback to check how unimportant the King of Goa was and how wrong you were? That's a good step I guess.

Sognatore

@Robby:

That was Law. There was never any mystery to that at all except from people who confused the issue by insisting it must be Monet. (who was obviously secretly sweet and kind and knowingly letting chopper go so she could be the next crewmate.)

Since the very next chapter, a total of like 4 pages later, it was clarified that Law's chains weren't seastone and he had his powers, and the note appeared out of nowhere.

It's NOT a mystery.

Yes, I know that's the most reasonable explanation, but it still annoys me that there never was any absolutely clear confirmation of that.

I mean the way the sequence is staged is just really confusing. Sure, the weird look Monet gives when Chopper runs away doesn't help, but that's not even my main problem with the scene – we see Chopper receiving the note, and actually wondering out loud, well in a thought balloon, who threw it and were it came from.

Then in the next chapter we do realize that Law wasn't really wearing seastone chains, and is free to use his powers, but he does so only to explain how he could remove his shackles then. He doesn't mention that he has already used them previously while Vergo and Ceaser were still around to transport the note. Wouldn't they have noticed him using his room to do that, anyway? Or did he already have his chains removed and just threw the note himself. Well in that case the panel in which he appears, exactly before we see the note hit Chopper doesn't really indicate that. Actually it doesn't really indicate him doing anything…

I really don't care about Monet at all, but still thought that scene to be super irritating. Maybe it's totally clear through context and I am an idiot for not getting it, but usually Oda presents things in a way so even idiots get what the hell is going on. Like having one of these flashbacks with grey panel borders where the hero's plan is revealed in retrospective, like he had when he showed how Smoker got his heart back. That wasn't the case here. Chopper wonders who threw the note, so I wonder who threw it. Then we never get a real answer to that aside from context, which doesn't really make that much sense I think.
So I think it's a bit unfair to blame it entirely on fanboys that the scene caused irritation.

Anyways if Law's speech quirk was used on the note, that makes it a closed case. I just frankly didn't know that and am sorry for even bringing the issue up. Blame it on translation…

Robby

But it wasn't confusing at all. It didn't need clearing up. If it was a question that a large number of people were having, Oda would have cleared it up in the SBS by now (three years later).

The note appears with laws signature teleport effect sound. It has his speech quirk in the writing. He explains four pages later he was free to use his powers the whole time and that he had a plan that he obviously didn't want Chopper screwing up.

It's really, REALLY not confusing unless you spend the week between chapters obsessing over it and inventing red herrings that Oda didn't actually put in. It's very straightforward.

Monkey King

@Don_Freecs:

Then, I just thought that maybe something is hidden there, but that could also be, just for making a nice scene. Luffy's voice being cut by the sound of the waves, it's nice, isn't it? Beautiful moment.

The waves thing is only in the anime. In the manga there's just one of Oda's scene transition things with the bisected end of a panel, and then it cuts back to Sabo and Ace. Their reaction (Ace mainly) is more dumbfounded and slightly confused than "awe" or whatever way you're attempting to describe here. The effect is more that Luffy said something kind of strange or unexpected, and no not in the "WOW HOW AMBITIOUS" way that just saying he wanted to be Pirate King would create.

And either way, what could he have said that was so shocking ? Is that something so shocking that the author is craving for us to see ? Is that gonna transcend me when I'll hear it ?

Something key to Luffy's character that Oda has chosen to not reveal yet. You know…like virtually everything else we've found out about him since leaving Windmill Village.

And he didn't tell his crewmates about his relatives - Ace, Sabo and Garp - but he always told them he wanted to be the pirate king. Why would he hide something ? So, is he hiding a bigger scheme for all this time ? Does he even have the maturity to do so ?

Why would he hide Ace or Garp?…..because he didn't hide Ace or Garp.
Luffy just never said anything, that's how his mind works. He's not someone who thinks about "Why yes, I must fully introduce my heritage and history and innermost secrets". Luffy is someone who doesn't think at all. That's unquestionably how Oda has been characterizing him from the start.

And Ace wanted to make Newgate the next pirate king, so it's like he had a grudge against the pirate king title. And he himself, wanted to be a pirate, if he hated his father that much, he would have been a marine….

It's not that he didn't have a specific reaction, anger or whatever, it's that he had no reaction that would fit having a personal relationship to the title at all. He just seemed kind of "Gosh that Luffy, who knows what you're think, I don't get you."

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@Don_Freecs:

And in the mangareader translation, Ace says " of all the things… you could come out with..."
http://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/585/22

So, it's not like he was very fond of what Luffy said.

This expects us to choose Mangareader over Viz. Which is not a good choice lol.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@evelyne:

So you were rereading the flashback to check how unimportant the King of Goa was and how wrong you were? That's a good step I guess.

lmao at how you tried to stick this to me only to have everyone deny you it
I'm sure Dragon's past in Goa somehow doesn't involve the monarchy and nobility at all. I bet it's Bluejam, let's bet on that again.

Don_Freecs

So I guess someone's gotta ask him the magic question "what do you want, let's yell it" and then he will tell ?

But yeah, King Canon has a point. It wouldn't make sense for Roger saying what Luffy said to Shanks at chapter 1. And maybe it's not "I'm gonna be the pirate king", even though Luffy seems to be the only kid to say that… Did any other characters said that ?
But anyway, Roger couldn't have said he wanted to be pirate king, because there was no such things back in his time.

And Luffy's probably gonna be bigger than pirate king. He'll fight against the WG and rule the world

HeartOfDarkness

That's quite an interesting point. I always found that scene to be strange with the cut-off and the reaction but i shrugged it off as Luffy simply stating his catch-phrase, and never really looked to deep into it. However thinking about it, i do think there is something very fishy about that scene especially since the anime does the same as the manga.

On side a note; what do you mean when you say that Luffy is really mysterious? Is it his overall personality and character or his history?

imperioonepiece

@Kylor:

Huh. When I first read the chapter, I took the omission as a sort of gag thing, like it was Oda saying, "you all already know what Luffy says here, so I'll just skip to the reactions." But looking back at the chapter (link in the OP didn't show up for me so I used the Viz translation, no idea what the others say) Luffy says, "I WANT to be…" Want. Now, while Luffy's regular catchphrase is "I'm GONNA be king of the pirates," or the other variation that comes up sometimes, "I'm the man who WILL BECOME king of the pirates," it's possible that the version in this chapter is just what he said as a kid and he changed it later to be more definitive... but still, if he's just talking about being king of the pirates, I do believe this is the first time he's ever left any room for error. So yeah, it's highly likely that he's talking about something else here. No idea what it is, but it could be something more vague or abstract than what we've normally seen from him. I'll have to think more on this later, but it's pretty clear that Oda put that difference in there for a reason.

Any translators here wanna talk about the wording? Guys? Anyone?

EDIT: Just checked volume one, Luffy was saying "I'm gonna be king of the pirates" ever since the first chapter, which takes place before this one. So it's even more likely that what he wants to be is something else .

If I remember well, in japanese he says "ore wa na…", which means something like "Then, I..."

I have been wondering about what Luffy says there, and I think he'll say "I wanna be the most free man in the world".

King Cannon

Saying "I'm gonna be the most free man in the world" doesn't really seem like something that would surprise Ace and Sabo that much. Same for "I'm gonna become Pirate King" as the three of them were planning to become legendary pirates anyway.

Going by their reactions, it must be something quite outrageous. Maybe even fantastical (to OP standards).

Kylor

@imperioonepiece:

If I remember well, in japanese he says "ore wa na…", which means something like "Then, I..."

I have been wondering about what Luffy says there, and I think he'll say "I wanna be the most free man in the world".

Thanks a lot for answering! If I'm not mistaken, isn't Luffy's regular catchphrase, in Japanese, "kaizoku-ou ni ore wa naru" (i.e, the words "pirate king" come first)? If so, then I think we can basically confirm that Oda intentionally wrote the line in such a way as to draw attention to the fact that the King of the Pirates isn't being mentioned here. That's really helpful!

Monkey King

@imperioonepiece:

I have been wondering about what Luffy says there, and I think he'll say "I wanna be the most free man in the world".

Which is another thing already revealed to the reader by that point (in Saobody). Making it yet another thing that makes no sense to hide from us.

K. Kira XXIII

For Luffy with Ace and Sabo, maybe a mix of I am going to sail everywhere with my friends and be free. Or maybe something to do with the Voud century. I actually don't have a clue.

For Roger, something like: with the strongest crew I've gathered, I will become the most notorious pirate and find the hidden treasure of the world and the world shall know my name. He says this before starting his second journey. If Roger said something like this, then Luffy dod say something similar but using the words pirate king

@King:

It's actually kinda surprising that no one ever noticed that Shanks' line about Luffy repeating Gol D. Roger's words at the time.

Roger should have been already a big deal at the time Shanks joined, with a good enough crew to become Pirate King (plus, Pirate King dream is not unique to Luffy). Luffy's words were most likely something more specific.

Jajalulu, I actually mentioned it on the first page, and I brought it up a couple of weeks ago in the questions thread. Good thinking on Monkey King to open a thread with other weird instances of Luffy's speech/dialogue. Also as much as I am laughing as I say this: how can the King of Goa not be important, now that we know Stelly has the crown.

Shadowgreed

Those are lines that I have always wondered and after thinking about it and knowing what we know about the story already, that famous line has to be something along the lines of "I'm gonna unite" rather than "I'm gonna become". Luffy by that point already knew what good and evil looked like, so it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibilities.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Bond en Avant

@Kylor:

Thanks a lot for answering! If I'm not mistaken, isn't Luffy's regular catchphrase, in Japanese, "kaizoku-ou ni ore wa naru" (i.e, the words "pirate king" come first)? If so, then I think we can basically confirm that Oda intentionally wrote the line in such a way as to draw attention to the fact that the King of the Pirates isn't being mentioned here. That's really helpful!

Not necessarily. There have been instances where he's said 'ore wa kaizoku ou ni naru otoko da' (I'm the man who'll be King of the Pirates). The most memorable for me was when he was on Roger's execution platform.

Steven D. Teach

@Monkey:

Their reaction (Ace mainly) is more dumbfounded and slightly confused than "awe" or whatever way you're attempting to describe here. The effect is more that Luffy said something kind of strange or unexpected, and no not in the "WOW HOW AMBITIOUS" way that just saying he wanted to be Pirate King would create.

There's the idea that I think Greg touched upon in his haki theory about visions and whatnot (I hope I didn't oversimplify that to the point of screwing up his point), but considering ONE PIECE, when written in the manga is always accompanied by the Japanese for "the great treasure that connects people", you can see how there have been theories about some kind of haki awakening toward the end of the series. Whitebeard's words before death about the world being thrown into upheaval have at least let 2chers theorize that the awakening would allow things regarding the history of the world to be revealed to them. I haven't read through a lot of the specifics, but it would be interesting if the unusual thing Luffy said was something to do with uniting people or something close to that. At the very least it would be a surprising thing for him to say to me.

Hanz

@Sognatore:

Yes, I know that's the most reasonable explanation, but it still annoys me that there never was any absolutely clear confirmation of that.

we don't have to be spoon fed everything. appreciate the author respecting your intelligence and not treating you like you have the attention span of a child.
i don't know how someone like you is gonna handle watching movies with ambiguous endings. you're gonna go crazy when you see the ending of inception.

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@Don_Freecs:

So I guess someone's gotta ask him the magic question "what do you want, let's yell it" and then he will tell ?

that would a very lazy way to do it. if i have to guess, it would be revealed when luffy is in a bad situation and sabo would get him out of it by reminding him of it.

Razh

"I want to become a pirate king so that mommy would come back." :sad:

Yeah, always felt it was going to be explored further down the line. Because Luffy's past is still a mystery.

AS for Shanks' claim refering something other than what Luffy yelled when he was leaving? I don't buy it. It seemed like what Luffy sad was what sealed the deal and made him give him the hat. Perhaps the words Luffy uttered are more unique in japanese than in english, or something.

desa

@Monkey:

I feel like this little bit in the Luffy/Sabo/Ace flashback is routinely forgotten and remains really overlooked.
I was rereading the flashback recently and stumbled over it again surprised.
Remember this?

I just assumed is what the thing Shanks was talking about that made him sound similar to Roger.

I could see Luffy setting foot on raftel than we get a small 1-2 flashback to that moment, so we understand better what it means to Luffy to be there and appreciate it more.

le crystal

Don_Freecs

He said : I'm gonna finish GreedIsland and find my mother !!!!

What if his mom is Ivankov ? Or Crocodile :ninja:

Or maybe Dragon was a girl but Ivankov turned her into a man

That'd be awesome. All his racist fans would be mad.

The first shonen hero with two father.

sggupta

i thought it was established that luffy said something which has not yet been revealed,and which ties into what shanks said were the exact same thing as roger said.but reading other's comments,it seems it's actually overlooked.
yeah,i think it's a completely different thing from his usual "i'm gonna become the pirate king",maybe something about the connecting the world,or doing something crazy like having his flag flown around the world,or maybe something silly like having super fun adventures with great friends.could be anything really.
i reckon we are gonna find out what it is even after vegapunk
@Razh:

"I want to become a pirate king so that mommy would come back." :sad:

Yeah, always felt it was going to be explored further down the line. Because Luffy's past is still a mystery.

AS for Shanks' claim refering something other than what Luffy yelled when he was leaving? I don't buy it. It seemed like what Luffy sad was what sealed the deal and made him give him the hat. Perhaps the words Luffy uttered are more unique in japanese than in english, or something.

I don't agree with this. Because,you know,rayleigh pointed out that the concept of pirate king didn't exist before roger. It was not roger's aim to become known as the "pirate king",it was a term given to him by others. His aim probably was more something like conquer the grand line

maxterdexter

Going a little meta here, I'd say that oda already drew the first time that luffy said his dream, and he didn't want him saying it before that, even though he has already decided it by this point. Did he say it at all during either the sabo flashback or the first chapter?