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    Momonosuke=Momotaro from Momotaro's tale?

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    • L
      ladyhawke
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      ladyhawke
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      Hey all.

      This is my first thread I believe on this forum,other than the introduction one. I thought I would share with you some interesting facts about Momonosuke, and how Oda could be using Momotaro's tale as a source of inspiration for the Samurai's quest.

      First things first, Momotaro's tale is a Japanese tale for children, that Oda already used in the past, mainly for the Admirals.

      The tale goes as follows

      Momotaro, literally "Peach boy" is a boy from Okayama Prefecture- Japan who came to earth inside a giant peach. The peach was found floating on the river by an elderly couple. While the woman is doing laundery on the river she notices the peach, and when her and her husband try to eat it they discover the child inside. Being childless they decided to adopt the boy and named him Momotaro, __momo meaning peach, and taro was usually the name given to the elderly son.

      Time went by and a grown Momotaro decides to go fight a band of marauding Oni on an island (Onigashima aka Oni Island). On his journey he meets a dog, a monkey and a pheasant who agreed to help him in his quest. At the island he and his friends manage to beat the Oni, and they plunder their treasure. From then on he and his family live comfortably.__

      As stated above, Oda used it as inspiration for the Admirals: Akainu (dog) Kizaru (monkey) Aokiji (pheasant). But not only. The two Oni that he defeats represent the Ushitora, or Ox-Tiger direction. Fujitora (Wisteria tiger) and Ryokugyu (Green Bull) are named after the Oni duo.

      But Oda didn't end there, and he's actually still using the tale as a source of inspiration.

      That's where Momonosuke and the Samurai's quest comes in.

      Obviously the name Momonosuke shares the part "Momo" from Momotaro's name, Momo meaning peach. Just like Momotaro, Momonosuke is on a quest, and he revealed his intention to beat Kaido and remove the Shogun, who can be seen as bad influence, just like the Oni in the tale. The biggest difference I would say between the two is that Momonosuke is a coward, while Momotaro isn't, but as seen when he asked Luffy for help, he can be brave when needed(sort of).

      In his quest he is accompanied by 3 animals.At first I had a hard time figuring out who the three animals were in the manga, since Kinemon, Kanjuro and Raizou don't really fit. Kinemon's epithet is "kitsune bi". With kitsune being Japanese for fox, but it doesn't really fit.

      But it turns out that all we had to do is wait a little and chapter 820 gave us the confirmation that the 3 animals who accompany Momonosuke are:

      -Inuarashi: he's literally a dog.
      We have to remember that he's the one called "Duke" not Nekomamushi. He decided to share his power with Neko, but as far as the "Mokomo dukedom" goes, the ruler with the title of Duke is Inuarashi.
      -Monkey D Luffy: obviously he's the one representing the monkey here.
      -Phoenix Marco: representing the pheasant.

      The Minks want to get Marco's help, and it just so happens that he is a phoenix, which is a bird that is close in appearance to a pheasant.

      So here we have the 3 animals represented in the manga.

      Momo's goal is to take down Kaido and the Shogun. Together they represent the evil influence, and I believe they are the equivalent of the Oni duo from the tale.

      I know that there is already a popular theory out there that Kaido is a Dragon, and I'm not here to refute that theory ,and I do not wish for this to become a discussion about who has the best theory about Kaido's DF. Rather my goal here is to explore the other possibilities, in light of what we know about Momotaro's tale.

      It is pretty clear right now that Oda is using it for the Samurai's quest, and based on it it could be seen that Kaido and the Shogun could in fact represent the Ushitora, or the two Onis from Momotaro's tale.

      If we look at Kaido's appearance, it closely ressembles that of an Oni.

      Comparison side by side of Kaido and a blue Oni.

      Here is a description of an Oni(from Wikipedia)

      Oni (鬼?) are a kind of yōkai from Japanese folklore, variously translated as demons, devils, ogres or trolls. They are popular characters in Japanese art, literature and theatre.Depictions of oni vary widely but usually portray them as hideous, gigantic ogre-like creatures with sharp claws, wild hair, and two long horns growing from their heads. They are humanoid for the most part, but occasionally, they are shown with unnatural features such as odd numbers of eyes or extra fingers and toes. Their skin may be any number of colors, but red and blue are particularly common.

      They are often depicted wearing tiger-skin loincloths and carrying iron clubs called kanabō (金棒?). This image leads to the expression "oni with an iron club" (鬼に金棒 oni-ni-kanabō?), that is, to be invincible or undefeatable. It can also be used in the sense of "strong beyond strong", or having one's natural quality enhanced or supplemented by the use of some tool.

      I bolded the most interesting parts. Let's see how that fits with Kaido's appearance!
      Gigantic.Check
      Wild hair. Check
      Horns. Check
      Loincloth.Check.
      Incredibly strong. Kaido is the strongest creature. Check.

      All he needs is an iron club. And to have a blue or red skin color. 😆

      Oh and there is another big clue. Like I pointed out, Oni are a type of Yokai. Yokai are the equivalent of demons or spirits in the Japanese folklore.

      Yōkai (妖怪?, ghost, phantom, strange apparition) are a class of supernatural monsters and spirits in Japanese folklore. The word yōkai is made up of the kanji for "bewitching; attractive; calamity;" and "spectre; apparition; mystery; suspicious".[1]

      Yep, the Kanji for Yokai can be read as Calamity. And it just so happens that Kaido has 3 calamities in his crew.

      I think these could be hint about Kaido's and his crew's theme. Furthermore they could also tie in with the theory that Kaido is an Oni, who might have ate the Hito Hito no mi: model Oni.

      And since we now know that Wano is occupied by Kaido and his forces, then this shot can only take place in Wano

      That's Oni Island on the right.
      Another hint is the style of pruning of the trees that is similar to the Japanese style of pruning. And we know that Wano is supposed to represent Japan in the manga.
      Although to be fair I believe the structure in the background could in fact be the Shogun's palace, which could look like this

      The horn like structures could be the koi carp statues that are usually featured on such castles.

      This imo is how Oda is using the tale as a source of inspiration for the Samurai's quest. Whether Kaido is an Oni who ate the Dragon fruit, or a just a humanoid creature who ate the Oni DF, while deciding to grow a Fumanchu remains to be seen😆.Or perhaps Kaido is the Oni, and the Shogun ate the Dragon DF lol?
      It is also interesting to explore the idea that the Beast pirates represent Mongols, who tried to invade Japan but failed.

      At any rate it is interesting to see Oda use this tale quite literally, especially the part about the 3 animals,and of course Momonosuke.

      Thanks for reading.

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      • Greg
        Greg
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        This idea has been around for a bit and Twitter user Luffy420 even discovered some pretty interesting links between kanji in Kanjuro and Raizou's names that peg them as the companions. I believe I've been calling this since we got that Kaidou HQ reveal.

        The question, who does Oda want to be his hero? As we saw with Dressrosa, even if someone has a longtime grudge, Oda isn't willing to hand over the final blow to anyone but Luffy.

        However, we know that Momo wants to 'take down' Kaidou. Will he be a part of that, or will circumstances allow him to physically accomplish that? Seeing as he's a dragon and Luffy would have to be Gear 4 for an extended time to keep up with him, I believe Luffy will ride Momonosuke to reach Kaidou and the decisive final battle will be a collaborative effort. If this is the case, it frees up Luffy to be the monkey and retains Momo as Momotarou. The interesting question then becomes, who will the 'kiji' and 'inu' be? I don't feel comfortable offering up ideas on that since they could easily be characters we haven't met yet but we did just meet a gigantic dog whom will be showing us the 'true power' of the mink and is willing to give his life for Oden's heir.

        But the far more interesting question in my book is, what if Momo isn't the arc's Momotarou? What if Oda is set on making that Luffy? That wouldn't 'fit' the model of the tale as well but it makes Momo's involvement somewhat unpredictable and anything unpredictable is always at least interesting to me.

        No matter where you go, there you are.

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          ladyhawke @Greg
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          @Greg:

          This idea has been around for a bit and Twitter user Luffy420 even discovered some pretty interesting links between kanji in Kanjuro and Raizou's names that peg them as the companions. I believe I've been calling this since we got that Kaidou HQ reveal.

          The question, who does Oda want to be his hero? As we saw with Dressrosa, even if someone has a longtime grudge, Oda isn't willing to hand over the final blow to anyone but Luffy.

          However, we know that Momo wants to 'take down' Kaidou. Will he be a part of that, or will circumstances allow him to physically accomplish that? Seeing as he's a dragon and Luffy would have to be Gear 4 for an extended time to keep up with him, I believe Luffy will ride Momonosuke to reach Kaidou and the decisive final battle will be a collaborative effort. If this is the case, it frees up Luffy to be the monkey and retains Momo as Momotarou. The interesting question then becomes, who will the 'kiji' and 'inu' be? I don't feel comfortable offering up ideas on that since they could easily be characters we haven't met yet but we did just meet a gigantic dog whom will be showing us the 'true power' of the mink and is willing to give his life for Oden's heir.

          But the far more interesting question in my book is, what if Momo isn't the arc's Momotarou? What if Oda is set on making that Luffy? That wouldn't 'fit' the model of the tale as well but it makes Momo's involvement somewhat unpredictable and anything unpredictable is always at least interesting to me.

          Thanks for the feedback.

          I wasn't aware of that since I don't use Twitter.But at any rate I thought I would compile all the bits that could hint at Oda using it as a source of inspiration, then and now.

          I think he could be using it almost literally if Kaido turns out to be an Oni. I don't think it's quite sure yet that he is a dragon,and given that dragons can be water deities that are worshipped during harvests etc, they can be benevolent, while an Oni most definitely isn't. But again my goal isn't to refute that theory.
          As for Momonosuke's role, he might not literally be Momotaro, just like Luffy wasn't literally him in the first part of the manga.As the MC he's pretty much expected to represent him but as seen with the admirals Oda can add a twist, which is always refreshing. Anyway instead of being accompanied by the dog, monkey and pheasant he is forced to face them, during Marineford mainly.
          If Luffy is supposed to be Momotaro, then we can exclude Momo(nosuke) being the one who takes down Kaido. It could end up being just like Law and Doflamingo.Law was in it for the kill, but he was unable to and it was Luffy who beat DD.

          I believe I already explained who the dog, monkey and pheasant are supposed to be. Marco is a bird,and has a heavy bird theme, and it might even be he's related to this whole Wano business if it turns out that Kaido (or the Shogun) is a Dragon
          http://www.onmarkproductions.com/html/ho-oo-phoenix.shtml

          Often depicted together with a Dragon, either as mortal enemies or blissful lovers.

          So Dragon and Phoenix are usually depicted together, either as mortal enemies or lovers, since it is believed that a Phoenix can birth a Dragon.(O.O)
          That could explain Marco's addition in light of this.

          Well that's just me speculating, nothing is sure about that.

          Oda might not use it literally, in fact he never had, as seen with Luffy and the Admirals so while Momonosuke's theme if you will is inspired by Momotaro, Oda will most likely add a twist to the tale by having the Monkey (aka Luffy) be the one who defeats the terribles Onis.👅

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          • Greg
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            @ladyhawke
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            Yeah, it hasn't been mentioned only on Twitter either.

            I first wrote about the island here:

            https://one-piece.com/special/greg/20150805_0443?l=en

            And this is basically my ambiguous thesis for why Kaidou is a dragon even though I never state it clearly because writing about things in an official capacity is more difficult than people imagine.

            https://one-piece.com/special/greg/20150819_0451?l=en

            As far as Kaidou being an oni, his current natural human state is more than enough for resembling an oni and probably as far as Oda wants to push the direct parallel. The evidence for him being a dragon is overwhelming. Hell, did you folks even note how Kinnemon literally used the term used to refer to the dragon on PH to Kaidou in Chapter 819?

            As far as Marco as the kiji, I like it and it fits the aerial battle but I'm also hoping there's a character we haven't met yet involved. That's purely me wanting to be surprised though.

            No matter where you go, there you are.

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              ladyhawke @Greg
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              @Greg:

              Yeah, it hasn't been mentioned only on Twitter either.

              I first wrote about the island here:

              https://one-piece.com/special/greg/20150805_0443?l=en

              And this is basically my ambiguous thesis for why Kaidou is a dragon even though I never state it clearly because writing about things in an official capacity is more difficult than people imagine.

              https://one-piece.com/special/greg/20150819_0451?l=en

              As far as Kaidou being an oni, his current natural human state is more than enough for resembling an oni and probably as far as Oda wants to push the direct parallel. The evidence for him being a dragon is overwhelming. Hell, did you folks even note how Kinnemon literally used the term used to refer to the dragon on PH to Kaidou in Chapter 819?

              As far as Marco as the kiji, I like it and it fits the aerial battle but I'm also hoping there's a character we haven't met yet involved. That's purely me wanting to be surprised though.

              Did he? I need to check that.

              However what bothers me is that according to Kinemon, Oden was killed at the hands of the Shogun and Kaido, unless that part is mistanslated.
              So can we really be sure it is Kaido?

              I guess that since now Luffy can "fly" using Gear 4, it might not be necessary for Momo to carry him on his back so he can fight Kaido. Also he is gigantic in size, so even if he doesn't have a Dragon DF, he could still be able to grab Momo and make him hover pretty high, which is something that is sure to scare him from heights, and flying in general.

              And I don't get exactly why Kaido would take Momo on a tour on his back if he was a dragon. So right now I'm not really convinced that he's a Dragon, nor am I 100% sure that he's an Oni either. I think it's just an interesting theory that deserves to be explored, especially if we consider the fact that Oda is using Momotaro's tale as a source of inspiration.

              In the end I don't see Momo play that huge of a role, but at the same time I doubt that Luffy will just get on Wano and start looking for Kaido straight away. I believe something will happen that will force him to act quickly, so what I see for Momo is getting kidnapped by the Shogun or Kaido, which will force Luffy to race to save his life. Kinda like Dressrosa, there's always a high stake.It wasn't enough that DD toyed with Rebecca, Bellamy etc. He needed to threaten everyone with the birdcage before we saw Luffy get serious.

              Well that was just me rambling about how Momo will be relevant, and if indeed he'll be the Momotaro of the story, or just a "prince" in distress.

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              • Greg
                Greg
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                Did he? I need to check that.

                Right here.

                I blurred out 'Kaidou' so as not to spoil the volume-only crowd. So, that kinda settles that.

                I guess that since now Luffy can "fly" using Gear 4, it might not be necessary for Momo to carry him on his back so he can fight Kaido.

                Right, but this is why I was careful to use 'extended time' above. He can't stay Gear 4th for very long. We know that to be true and we also know there are yet-unknown manga-science reasons for that.

                And I don't get exactly why Kaido would take Momo on a tour on his back if he was a dragon.

                Not sure what you mean by this. Is there any evidence that this has happened?

                In the end I don't see Momo play that huge of a role

                He has to. If he's going to be shogun. And he will.

                The question is, again, who does Oda want the hero to be? I can certainly see circumstances leading to Momo defeating Kaidou.

                He won't be the one to kill him though. That'll be Blackbeard. But that's another story.

                No matter where you go, there you are.

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                  ladyhawke @Greg
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                  @Greg:

                  Right here.

                  I blurred out 'Kaidou' so as not to spoil the volume-only crowd. So, that kinda settles that.

                  I see, thanks for pointing that out.

                  Right, but this is why I was careful to use 'extended time' above. He can't stay Gear 4th for very long. We know that to be true and we also know there are yet-unknown manga-science reasons for that.

                  I meant only getting there, although if the structure we saw in Wano is indeed a castle, then the fight could happen there. And it wouldn't be impossible for Luffy to use Gear 4 in the future for an extended period of time.
                  Also Momo doesn't really control his fruit, so it might prove difficult for him to continue using it, so Luffy can fight Kaido for an extended period.

                  Either way it seems to me that such a fight will be highly unpractical, taking place in the sky, since neither options is viable imo.

                  Not sure what you mean by this. Is there any evidence that this has happened?

                  It is thought that Momo's fear of flying is connected to some traumatic experience, that is due to him riding on Kaido's back. It's all in the Dragon DF theory.
                  I find it far fetched tbh.

                  He has to. If he's going to be shogun. And he will.

                  The question is, again, who does Oda want the hero to be? I can certainly see circumstances leading to Momo defeating Kaidou.

                  He won't be the one to kill him though. That'll be Blackbeard. But that's another story.

                  Well he said that he wants to grow stronger, but it is virtually impossible for him to do so in such a small period of time.It makes more sense for Luffy to be the one who takes down Kaido.
                  I guess it can be seen as that as well, he can be seen as the one who brought all these people together in order to free Wano from the tyranny of the Shogun and Kaido, however I would find it strange if he didn't give credit to Luffy. Even now he is still known as the one who saved Dressrosa, along with his alliance, so it's hard to see how it can be different.
                  Maybe Momo will be credited for defeating the Shogun, if it turns out the samurai beat him in a collective effort(along with Zoro).

                  Yes that's a different story, an interesting one for sure.

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                  • Greg
                    Greg
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                    @ladyhawke
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                    I meant only getting there

                    But the battle against him is going to be an aerial extended battle.

                    although if the structure we saw in Wano is indeed a castle, then the fight could happen there.

                    It is, in the winter part of it. You're going to see battle transpire in the different seasonal zones of Wano simultaneously I imagine.

                    And it wouldn't be impossible for Luffy to use Gear 4 in the future for an extended period of time.

                    Entirely possible but not with the in-universe timeline for Wano. Actually, I have a column about that going up later today (tonight in US)

                    It is thought that Momo's fear of flying is connected to some traumatic experience, that is due to him riding on Kaido's back. It's all in the Dragon DF theory. I find it far fetched tbh.

                    Haha, oh wow, does he have a fear of flying? I thought he just didn't remember flying. Do you have a page for that? It's an even stronger pillar of support for the theory and one I'd forgotten!

                    Well he said that he wants to grow stronger, but it is virtually impossible for him to do so in such a small period of time.

                    Nonono, I don't mean Momonosuke will be physically stronger. I mean come on, Luffy probably can't match Kaidou in arm-wrestling. Again, that's exactly why I was careful to say circumstances may allow it. 'Defeating' an opponent doesn't necessarily mean physically taking them down. And if it does infer physically, it certainly doesn't require it to be alone.

                    With One Piece, you're best off thinking, "How could this impossible scenario, be made possible?" That's basically Oda's job and the circumstances I speak of are essentially DO-N moments.

                    No matter where you go, there you are.

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                      ladyhawke @Greg
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                      @Greg:

                      Entirely possible but not the with in-universe timeline for Wano. Actually, I have a column about that going up later today (tonight in US)

                      I'm not so sure about that, first I see him beating Jack which could make him think of a way to use it for an extended period. Then there's BM and I really don't think things will go smoothly with her. We might end up seeing a skirmish between them.I'm not entirely dismissing the idea lol.

                      Haha, oh wow, does he have a fear of flying? I thought he just didn't remember flying. Do you have a page for that? It's an even stronger pillar of support for the theory and one I'd forgotten!

                      I don't know if it can be seen as evidence. He doesn't explicitly say he has a fear of flying, it's just one interpretation of it I guess,but here it is

                      Of course he says he has no recollection of it happening, but he goes into saying that even if he were he wouldn't do it again, which shows his refusal. He even goes into saying that it would be a dreadful thing, though I'm not sure of the translation as always.

                      I guess it can be seen as him being afraid of flying, or he has a fear of heights in general. Which could be anything, might be related to the hand that is about to grab him there.

                      Nonono, I don't mean Momonosuke will be physically stronger. I mean come on, Luffy probably can't match Kaidou in arm-wrestling. Again, that's exactly why I was careful to say circumstances may allow it. 'Defeating' an opponent doesn't necessarily mean physically taking them down. And if it does infer physically, it certainly doesn't require it to be alone.

                      With One Piece, you're best off thinking, "How could this impossible scenario, be made possible?" That's basically Oda's job and the circumstances I speak of are essentially DO-N moments.

                      I'm not really sure what circumstances will make it look like Momo defeated Kaido and even if that was the case, that wouldn't be honorable. Not sure if you meant that, as in Luffy would beat him but it would still look like Momo did. If so then yeah there is no honor in something like that, and honor is pretty big for samurai normally. I guess only time will tell how things go.
                      I think I would like to see Momo "snap" at Kaido, and face him, not in battle but tell him how ill he thinks of him, that would be hilarious.

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                        Australopithecus @Greg
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                        @ladyhawke:

                        It is thought that Momo's fear of flying is connected to some traumatic experience, that is due to him riding on Kaido's back. It's all in the Dragon DF theory.
                        I find it far fetched tbh
                        .

                        It is true that the theory says Momo is aviophobic, but it never says that he rode on Kaido's back.
                        @Greg:

                        Haha, oh wow, does he have a fear of flying? I thought he just didn't remember flying. Do you have a page for that? It's an even stronger pillar of support for the theory and one I'd forgotten!
                        .

                        Yes, he fears flight.
                        I'll quote from the theory:

                        Shortly after the Straw Hats’ arrival in Dressrosa, Luffy had tried to fly Momonosuke because of the flying ability that Momonosuke had displayed and used unconsciously to save both Luffy and himself from remaining in the pit wherein Luffy first stumbled upon him

                        , but Momonosuke dreadfully and loudly rejected the idea of flying ‘again’ through the 'skies' despite having no memory of the time when he had flown together with Luffy out of the pit wherein there was no 'sky'.

                        While he was about to shout his rejection of such idea, Momonosuke was recalling somebody’s hand reaching out to grab him.

                        That event from his memory appears to be the cause of his aviophobia(fear of flying). The person from his flashback is suggested to have a flying ability, and the Dragon Devil Fruit possesses a flying ability.

                        Look how he described flight as a 'dreadful thing'. That was how I inferred that he dreads flight.

                        As you can see, nowhere did I say Kaido took Momo on his 'back'.

                        Kaido has a Dragon Devil Fruit | The National Treasure Is the Ancient Weapon Uranus | Monkey D. Dragon Has the Wind Devil Fruit

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                          ladyhawke @Australopithecus
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                          @Australopithecus:

                          It is true that the theory says Momo is aviophobic, but it never says that he rode on Kaido's back.

                          Yes, he fears flight.
                          I'll quote from the theory:

                          Look how he described flight as a 'dreadful thing'. That was how I inferred that he dreads flight.

                          As you can see, nowhere did I say Kaido took Momo on his 'back'.

                          Then what is this about?
                          @Australopithecus:

                          As I have theorized before, Kaido was the one who planted aviophobia (fear of flight) in Momonosuke by taking him in the air.
                          http://i.imgur.com/ZWZW7Y1.png
                          In this week's chapter, we see, from Momonosuke's flashback of Kaido's terror in Wano, someone telling Momonosuke with strong emotions to gaze out upon it; that is the world.
                          http://i.imgur.com/X1k9Alk.jpg
                          My theory is that this is the moment when Kaido was taking Momo in the sky. No matter how you look at it, whoever was showing Momonosuke the world was showing it to him from great heights. And that person conveniently turns out to be in the same flashback that was revolving around Kaido.

                          You say that Kaido was "taking Momo in the sky". How can he achieve that? One way to do it is to have him "ride on his back" in Dragon form, just like Luffy rode on Momo's back on PH.

                          Unless you meant in human form?

                          And if he took him in the air in human form, wouldn't that be fear of heights(acrophobia) instead of fear of flight(aviophobia)?

                          Because in order for it to be a fear of flight, Momo would need to have been flying at the time or saw something that made him traumatized of flying. In real life people who have a fear of flight often think of a plane crashing etc, even though they never been on a plane beforehand.But it is closely tied to the act of flying.

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                          • Greg
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                            I'm not so sure about that, first I see him beating Jack which could make him think of a way to use it for an extended period.

                            He had two years to extend it, I don't think a single battle with him will suddenly make that possible. That's a stretch even for manga.

                            Then there's BM and I really don't think things will go smoothly with her.

                            They certainly will. She's going to be a very important ally. Just wait. She's basically going to be the most powerful Mr.2 character in the entire series. Now with the VINSMOKES, that's another issue. But I still don't think Luffy is going to extend it so quickly.

                            Re: Momo not liking flying-

                            Yeah, that's pretty solid. It sets up a past event AND is another one of his Spoilernosuke moments. I like it! I'd completely forgotten about that aspect of the scene.

                            No matter where you go, there you are.

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                              ladyhawke @Greg
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                              @Greg:

                              He had two years to extend it, I don't think a single battle with him will suddenly make that possible. That's a stretch even for manga.

                              My reasoning behind it is that it would be like Gear 2 back in the day. The more he uses it, the more he'll be able to use it for an extended period without suffering the side effects, and lol I didn't mean he'll manage to do it in just one fight.
                              But he definitely needs to think of a way.

                              They certainly will. She's going to be a very important ally. Just wait. She's basically going to be the most powerful Mr.2 character in the entire series. Now with the VINSMOKES, that's another issue. But I still don't think Luffy is going to extend it so quickly.

                              Re: Momo not liking flying-

                              Yeah, that's pretty solid. It sets up a past event AND is another one of his Spoilernosuke moments. I like it! I'd completely forgotten about that aspect of the scene.

                              I don't see that happening so soon, so while she might become an ally, it might be after Luffy defeats her.

                              Yes it does look like he's not fond of the idea, but the circumstances behind it are still not clear, not just if it's Kaido but also his motives, if indeed he "took him in the sky".Why would he do that? Is it to plant some wisdom in him? Or something else.

                              Ah at this point we can only speculate as to why he would do that.

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                              • Greg
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                                My reasoning behind it is that it would be like Gear 2 back in the day. The more he uses it, the more he'll be able to use it for an extended period without suffering the side effects, and lol I didn't mean he'll manage to do it in just one fight.

                                But that's kind of my point regarding two years. He's been using it on the island. Sure, we don't know how long, but he's had the time he needed to be comfortable with it. We didn't get a key scene of him saying, "I haven't perfected this yet.", or, "I'm not entirely comfortable with this but…", so I don't think one, two or even three battles with it will make him more capable of using it for an extended time during this short period. Maybe a little bit more? But I just don't see that being a huge factor behind the reasoning of what's otherwise a very practical teaming up of Momo and Luffy.

                                I don't see that happening so soon, so while she might become an ally, it might be after Luffy defeats her.

                                You're entering that with the assumption that they will have a knock-down drag-out war for superiority when, that's simply not going to be the case. Oda is setting up Mom for a great personality reveal. The hints are all in place and hell, we can even postulate with great accuracy what her DF ability is (if she has one etc. etc.). We've discussed this before on the podcast but Big Mom is being set up to look like a monster but is less monster and more in the realm of Mr. 2's place in the series as a villain/ally. Mark my words, Big Mom isn't half as nasty as she seems. Hell, even Luffy said he's, "…not going there to fight.", and how often does that happen?

                                Another great piece of evidence is Pekoms vs Capone. Capone is (relatively) new to the BM crew and he's a nasty guy. Pekoms is a long-time member and he's awesome. He's fiercely loyal and he's a mink to boot.

                                We, as readers, will not be set up to hate Pekoms.

                                Pekoms is loyal, beyond a doubt, to Big Mom. Just as much as the crew is to Luffy.

                                Pekoms will side with Big Mom.

                                We can't hate Pekoms, we can't hate Big Mom.

                                I'm sure this sounds way to simplistic but at the character and story roots, this is exactly what's going on. Add to that what we can extrapolate about Mom and it all fits into place beautifully. I'm not saying Luffy and Mom might not butt heads. I think that's a given. But the enemy isn't Big Mom.

                                Anyway, I'm not saying there won't be a clash in the arc, but I don't think it's going to be this LUFFY VS BIG MOM story that everyone anticipates. Oda's not going to do what you anticipate and again, circumstances are what make the story interesting.

                                Why would he do that?

                                To threaten him for the location of…

                                No matter where you go, there you are.

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                                  This has already been posted on here they're based on them however the story will not be a complete copy and paste from the other one also you have other stuff taken from other sources as well such as character names like Blackbeard,some people could even that oda got the idea of luffy's power from mr fantastic from fantastic 4 as well.

                                  Oda also some of his building design ideas from other places as well.

                                  They will not be taking Kaido down on wano since Wano will not be Kaido's main island just like how punk hazard was not Doflamingo's main island they will only be weakening Kaido even more by reducing his forces on wano.

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                                    They will not be taking Kaido down on wano since Wano will not be Kaido's main island just like how punk hazard was not Doflamingo's main island they will only be weakening Kaido even more by reducing his forces on wano.

                                    This technically could hold true depending on how Wano considers Onigashima. Is it part of Wano? Or is it separate? Is it even an island? Either way, it falls into the 'winter' part of Wano so even if it is technically separated by water, I'm still betting that it's considered part of Wano.

                                    No matter where you go, there you are.

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                                      @sanji''s_dad:

                                      This has already been posted on here they're based on them however the story will not be a complete copy and paste from the other one also you have other stuff taken from other sources as well such as character names like Blackbeard,some people could even that oda got the idea of luffy's power from mr fantastic from fantastic 4 as well.

                                      Oda also some of his building design ideas from other places as well.

                                      Well I'm not sure how you can make a manga about pirates, and not include Blackbeard. Not just him but a good portion of pirates featured in the manga are based on real pirates like François l'Olonnais(Roronoa), Bellamy, Bonney, Calico Jack, Kidd and so on.
                                      Here it's specifically about Momotaro and not just how he used it once, but twice, and in view of some theories he might even use it for Kaido. So we're not allowed to talk about it, just because it was already posted?
                                      And don't get me wrong, I don't think it takes away from the story, the fact that Oda is using it as inspiration. I don't think he's "copying" as much as he is giving his own version of the tale, which I'm always happy to see Oda do since I consider him one of the most original mangaka I have the chance to read.
                                      And we can even argue that Oda is using the history of Japan, and in particular the end of the Shogunate and the beginning of the Meiji restoration as inspiration for the current events in Wano, even up to the point that those who leave Wano get executed, just like it was the case in isolationist Japan.

                                      To me it's pretty interesting to see him do that, and honestly name a single author who isn't inspired by something else. Without Sun Wu Kong and Journey to the West there would be no Dragon Ball, without ninjas there would be no Naruto etc.
                                      So as you can see every author is inspired by something, it can be a tale, a movie, a song etc.That doesn't take away from their achievement imo, that's just how the creation process works.

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                                        @Greg:

                                        He had two years to extend it, I don't think a single battle with him will suddenly make that possible. That's a stretch even for manga.

                                        Not exactly two years, most likely closer to a year or even half a year. It had to be at a point where Luffy already covered the basics of Busoshoku and fought the toughest animals on Rusukaina. Rayleigh left after he had nothing left to teach him, and defeating the island's biggest beasts could be a simple sign of that.

                                        Moreover, we don't actually know how Luffy dealt with G4 when he used it for the first time. Against DD he lasted, what, half an hour? it could very well be that the first time he only lasted for several minutes.

                                        Another point is that Luffy develops his techniques only to defeat his short term adversaries. After becoming the boss of the island there was nothing to force him to push himself beyond his limits. Luffy could simply find a (yet another) creative technique to last longer in G4, and it wouldn't be any more of a stretch than creating G2 and G3 in the short time between LRLL and EL.

                                        @ladyhawke:

                                        I don't see that happening so soon, so while she might become an ally, it might be after Luffy defeats her.

                                        I agree with Greg on this. Luffy won't beat BM. It doesn't even have to do with plot- women just don't get beaten half dead in OP, especially not by our protagonist.

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                                        • Greg
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                                          Not exactly two years, most likely closer to a year or even half a year.

                                          And it could be even shorter than that. We don't know. You'll see I went into more depth with that point farther down and I think the point stands. An unknown span of two years or….a month. Two months absolute max. Nah. I don't see it.

                                          No matter where you go, there you are.

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                                            @ladyhawke:

                                            Then what is this about?

                                            Well, it certainly doesn't say Kaido put Momo on his back:happy:
                                            @ladyhawke:

                                            You say that Kaido was "taking Momo in the sky". How can he achieve that? One way to do it is to have him "ride on his back" in Dragon form, just like Luffy rode on Momo's back on PH.

                                            Unless you meant in human form?.

                                            No, neither. There are more choices than that 😉
                                            First of all, dragons have talons which they can use to hold whatever it is they wish to hold (Momo in this case). Second of all, we have seen zoan users, like Marco, achieve partial transformations. So that might factor in this as well. So, you see, there are more possibilities than just putting him on his back.

                                            @ladyhawke:

                                            And if he took him in the air in human form, wouldn't that be fear of heights(acrophobia) instead of fear of flight(aviophobia)?.

                                            Both. That event from Momo’s memory provided the perfect setting for these two phobias to take place. Back at Dressrosa, Momo obviously rejected ‘flight’ and described it as a ‘dreadful thing’, so that’s 'fear of flight'; moreover, on chapter 817, Momo was also shown reacting negatively to ‘heights’, so that could be 'fear of heights'.

                                            He told Kinemon when they were climbing the whale that he does not feel well.

                                            !
                                            He was also shown trembling on Kinemon’s back.

                                            !
                                            Ironically, in the very same chapter, Luffy was squabbling with him and calling him a wimp who fears 'heights'.

                                            !
                                            It was exactly the same thing Luffy said after Momo displayed his fear of flight while remembering Kaido's event.

                                            !
                                            See the pattern?
                                            @ladyhawke:

                                            Because in order for it to be a fear of flight, Momo would need to have been flying at the time or saw something that made him traumatized of flying..

                                            Yes, he was flying back then – flying against his will by Kaido, that is 😃
                                            @ladyhawke:

                                            In real life people who have a fear of flight often think of a plane crashing etc, even though they never been on a plane beforehand.But it is closely tied to the act of flying.

                                            That’s because in real world human flight can only be achieved through things such as aircraft; however, this is a manga where human beings and other anthropomorphic creatures achieve flight through other means such as devil fruits or moonwalk. So, as you can see by now, there will be a difference, but that difference doesn’t change the fact that Momo fears flight as well.

                                            Kaido has a Dragon Devil Fruit | The National Treasure Is the Ancient Weapon Uranus | Monkey D. Dragon Has the Wind Devil Fruit

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                                              I read this theory somewhere else before, but in a less-detailed version than this one.

                                              Good job !

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                                                @Kaptayn:

                                                I read this theory somewhere else before, but in a less-detailed version than this one.

                                                Good job !

                                                Thanks Kaptayn.:)

                                                Hope I can continue to update it with any piece of information that cements this theory.

                                                –- Update From New Post Merge ---

                                                @Australopithecus:

                                                Well, it certainly doesn't say Kaido put Momo on his back:happy:

                                                No, neither. There are more choices than that 😉
                                                First of all, dragons have talons which they can use to hold whatever it is they wish to hold (Momo in this case). Second of all, we have seen zoan users, like Marco, achieve partial transformations. So that might factor in this as well. So, you see, there are more possibilities than just putting him on his back.

                                                Both. That event from Momo’s memory provided the perfect setting for these two phobias to take place. Back at Dressrosa, Momo obviously rejected ‘flight’ and described it as a ‘dreadful thing’, so that’s 'fear of flight'; moreover, on chapter 817, Momo was also shown reacting negatively to ‘heights’, so that could be 'fear of heights'.

                                                He told Kinemon when they were climbing the whale that he does not feel well.

                                                ! http://i.imgur.com/BCBAqb1.jpg
                                                He was also shown trembling on Kinemon’s back.

                                                ! http://i.imgur.com/pVqY95X.jpg
                                                Ironically, in the very same chapter, Luffy was squabbling with him and calling him a wimp who fears 'heights'.

                                                ! http://i.imgur.com/nxfDf5R.png
                                                It was exactly the same thing Luffy said after Momo displayed his fear of flight while remembering Kaido's event.

                                                ! http://i.imgur.com/rU4aPG0.png
                                                See the pattern?

                                                Yes, he was flying back then – flying against his will by Kaido, that is 😃

                                                That’s because in real world human flight can only be achieved through things such as aircraft; however, this is a manga where human beings and other anthropomorphic creatures achieve flight through other means such as devil fruits or moonwalk. So, as you can see by now, there will be a difference, but that difference doesn’t change the fact that Momo fears flight as well.

                                                About the tree thing, I read that as him being uncomfortable because of the voice he's hearing. In the next panel I believe Kinemon mentions the bit about the voice and how Momo has the same disposition as Oden.So to me they're both related.

                                                So he starts by saying that he "still" feels terrible, and he continues to explain why: he's hearing a loud voice.
                                                So Momo is feeling unwell because of the voice, and you see Law pause there a moment as if he's waiting for the explanation to come.

                                                But I guess you could be right, he does have a fear of heights and perhaps also of flight.

                                                –- Update From New Post Merge ---

                                                @mbaruh:

                                                Not exactly two years, most likely closer to a year or even half a year. It had to be at a point where Luffy already covered the basics of Busoshoku and fought the toughest animals on Rusukaina. Rayleigh left after he had nothing left to teach him, and defeating the island's biggest beasts could be a simple sign of that.

                                                Moreover, we don't actually know how Luffy dealt with G4 when he used it for the first time. Against DD he lasted, what, half an hour? it could very well be that the first time he only lasted for several minutes.

                                                Another point is that Luffy develops his techniques only to defeat his short term adversaries. After becoming the boss of the island there was nothing to force him to push himself beyond his limits. Luffy could simply find a (yet another) creative technique to last longer in G4, and it wouldn't be any more of a stretch than creating G2 and G3 in the short time between LRLL and EL.

                                                I agree with that. After he developed Gear 4 and used it on the Rusukaina fauna, he prolly didn't have a real challenge, so it was hard for him to find an opponent that would last long enough for him to be forced to use Gear 4 beyond its limit.
                                                Furthermore just like Gear 2 and Gear 3 back in the day, we've never seen Luffy train or anything of the sort, so not only is it possible for him to be able to lift the time limit in the future, but maybe he has another technique in store or he can think of a new one while on his journey.It's not necessary to show him train for it.

                                                I agree with Greg on this. Luffy won't beat BM. It doesn't even have to do with plot- women just don't get beaten half dead in OP, especially not by our protagonist.

                                                But unlike Sanji and even Zoro, Luffy has no problem fighting women. He fought Alvida first, and even the Gorgon sisters.
                                                She might not end up beaten half dead, but I don't think we should dismiss the idea that there could be a face off between the two, just because he's the main protagonist.

                                                I don't really like the idea of the MC or other characters being lenient on female characters just because it would look bad to see a girl beaten up. This kind of view is outdated imo, and if you take other titles like NnT or AoT, female characters get beaten up just like their male counterpart.So if we go by this, there is no hope to see a female character rise to be the main villain of an arc, and actually fight instead of just getting the "ally" treatment.Or they will have to be handled by other female characters. Meh.

                                                I just think it would be interesting to see Luffy punch BM in the stomach so hard that she ends up vomiting the subordinates she might have gobbled. 😆
                                                I'm interested in knowing Luffy's reaction when he learns of BM's weird eating habits, which include cannibalism. Because that's what things look like, unless she has a cow's stomach and she can regurgitate things that she already ate before.

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                                                  mbaruh @ladyhawke
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                                                  @ladyhawke:

                                                  But unlike Sanji and even Zoro, Luffy has no problem fighting women. He fought Alvida first, and even the Gorgon sisters.
                                                  She might not end up beaten half dead, but I don't think we should dismiss the idea that there could be a face off between the two, just because he's the main protagonist.

                                                  I don't really like the idea of the MC or other characters being lenient on female characters just because it would look bad to see a girl beaten up. This kind of view is outdated imo, and if you take other titles like NnT or AoT, female characters get beaten up just like their male counterpart.So if we go by this, there is no hope to see a female character rise to be the main villain of an arc, and actually fight instead of just getting the "ally" treatment.Or they will have to be handled by other female characters. Meh.

                                                  I just think it would be interesting to see Luffy punch BM in the stomach so hard that she ends up vomiting the subordinates she might have gobbled. 😆
                                                  I'm interested in knowing Luffy's reaction when he learns of BM's weird eating habits, which include cannibalism. Because that's what things look like, unless she has a cow's stomach and she can regurgitate things that she already ate before.

                                                  Doesn't really matter, that's just how Oda is. In the one time a woman suffered critical damage (when Enel electrocuted Robin), Zoro immediately went ahead and said "she's a woman". I didn't say there won't be a clash at all, just that if there will be such a clash, it will be small, and I don't think he will leave any mark on her.

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                                                    ladyhawke @mbaruh
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                                                    @mbaruh:

                                                    Doesn't really matter, that's just how Oda is. In the one time a woman suffered critical damage (when Enel electrocuted Robin), Zoro immediately went ahead and said "she's a woman". I didn't say there won't be a clash at all, just that if there will be such a clash, it will be small, and I don't think he will leave any mark on her.

                                                    Well that's I've been saying all along, there could be a skirmish between them 👅
                                                    plus

                                                    I can't help but feel that Franky's part is a foreshadowing. Things won't go as smoothly since Luffy isn't going alone, so they will get discovered and be forced to flee, but not without having a "skirmish" between Luffy and BM.

                                                    It's too early to tell if Luffy will end up taking her down, atm he just wants to rescue Sanji. His goal is to take down Kaido for now.So he can't just go and change his plans, not to mention that he's going unprepared with the bulk of his forces heading to Wano.

                                                    And the only reason Luffy doesn't want to fight BM is because she's a Yonko and he needs preparation, he didn't say anything about not wanting to fight her because she's a woman.

                                                    I honestly doubt she'll become an ally from the get go, she might be an antagonist then become an ally, if it turns out that her interests are aligned with those of the SHs.
                                                    Pekoms alone doesn't guarantee that BM will be an ally, we have to remember that other members of her crew like Bobbin are just as ruthless as Bege if not more.
                                                    So that doesn't really tell us if BM herself isn't that bad, on the contrary from the looks of it chances are she's more of a monster than anything else really.

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                                                      mbaruh @Greg
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                                                      @Greg:

                                                      And it could be even shorter than that. We don't know. You'll see I went into more depth with that point farther down and I think the point stands. An unknown span of two years or….a month. Two months absolute max. Nah. I don't see it.

                                                      We know that Rayleigh left half a year before the reunion, and that Luffy developed G4 before that because Rayleigh was still on the island (unless you'll claim he came for visits, which I just don't find likely).
                                                      We also didn't hear Luffy say anything about further developing G2 and G3, yet during the TS he created a way to use G2 more efficiently, and got rid of the G3 side-effects (with no apparent explanation).

                                                      It's not like I'm completely adamant on him further developing G4, I'm fine with whatever. I'm just against closing the door on the option of further developing G4. Is the collab between him and Momo your main reason? because I don't see the problem here. I'm not talking about completely abolishing the time limit, but about significantly extending it. We've seen that a time limit on G4 is a time limit on the fight, because after that he only has enough strength for another attack or two (and honestly, everyone going to protect Luffy during the 10 minutes was nice, but I don't see it becoming a constant thing in each of his battles), and we can't expect Kaido to go down as "easily" as DD.
                                                      Luffy WILL get a power up towards the fight with Kaido, whatever it will be; and I can easily think of ways for Luffy to collab with Momo even with a better G4.

                                                      –- Update From New Post Merge ---

                                                      @ladyhawke:

                                                      Well that's I've been saying all along, there could be a skirmish between them 👅
                                                      plus
                                                      http://img.mangastream.com/cdn/manga/51/3297/16.png

                                                      I can't help but feel that Franky's part is a foreshadowing. Things won't go as smoothly since Luffy isn't going alone, so they will get discovered and be forced to flee, but not without having a "skirmish" between Luffy and BM.

                                                      And the only reason Luffy doesn't want to fight BM is because she's a Yonko and he needs preparation, he didn't say anything about not wanting to fight her because she's a woman.

                                                      I honestly doubt she'll become an ally from the beginning, she might become an antagonist then an ally, if it turns out that her interests are the same as the SHs.
                                                      Pekoms alone doesn't guarantee that BM will be an ally, we have to remember that other members of her crew like Bobbin are just as ruthless as Bege if not more.
                                                      So that doesn't really tell us if BM herself isn't that bad, on the contrary from the looks of it chances are she's more of a monster than anything else really.

                                                      You got me all wrong. Oda won't make Luffy not want to fight an opponent just because the opponent is a woman. Oda, as an author, won't create for him a full blown fight against a woman. At most it'll be a small exchange or something to further the plot, like with the Boa sisters.
                                                      And they will most certainly be discovered. No interaction between Luffy and BM otherwise.

                                                      I don't know if she'll become an ally (although I can see it happening), but something has to be done with her, and it won't be a war against the strawhats.

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                                                        ladyhawke @mbaruh
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                                                        @mbaruh:

                                                        You got me all wrong. Oda won't make Luffy not want to fight an opponent just because the opponent is a woman. Oda, as an author, won't create for him a full blown fight against a woman. At most it'll be a small exchange or something to further the plot, like with the Boa sisters.
                                                        And they will most certainly be discovered. No interaction between Luffy and BM otherwise.

                                                        I don't know if she'll become an ally (although I can see it happening), but something has to be done with her, and it won't be a war against the strawhats.

                                                        Oh don't worry I got you the first time. I was simply reminding you that officially Luffy doesn't want to fight her right now because he's not prepared, as Robin pointed out, not that she's a woman.

                                                        I already expressed how Oda's view on the matter is outdated, plenty of shonens these days feature female characters that get beaten, and who play a more active role than just be a damsel in distress.

                                                        In the end it might not be that Luffy will take down all 4 Yonko, unlike what he said on PH. Things will most likely play differently, and I can see at least 2 of them becoming allies, Shanks and maybe BM.
                                                        Shanks is almost a given, as for BM it remains to be seen how she can agree to become an ally to the SHs.

                                                        As I explained earlier, the infiltration mission won't go smoothly, and Luffy and BM could clash. Nothing too big, just a little skirmish which will allow the SHs to flee, because it's hard to see BM agreeing to let Sanji go.For some reason she wants this marriage to happen,and imo it's because she wants to seal an alliance with the Vinsmokes.

                                                        So it all depends on whether she is willing to let go of her ambition to have Sanji marry one of her daughters. Luffy might also want to take her down since she has a Road Poneglyph in her possession. It's not confirmed that the Poneglyph Jinbei found is a Road Poneglyph, so if she already had one beforehand then I doubt she'll let it go.
                                                        It also means that she could potentially want to reach Raftel, unless it is revealed otherwise.If so then she is in Luffy's way.

                                                        So storywise it makes a lot of sense to have a confrontation between Luffy and her at some point, just not now. If she ends up getting the ally treatment it could work out, if not and Oda won't have Luffy fight her then she needs to be taken down by someone else, maybe Kidd and co.

                                                        However I don't think they're interested, they have already set their eyes on taking down Shanks, and with Kaido crashing on their hideout and potentially wiping the floor with them, we might see them target Kaido too, and first actually.

                                                        So it is unlikely they would go out of their way to chase BM.

                                                        This is my final prediction concerning this matter.I'm not so adamant about him not fighting her, in fact it would seem a waste, but it's possible that Luffy won't be the one to take down all Yonko, despite what he said on PH. After all he's not Spoilernosuke as far as we know.

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                                                        • Long John Silvers Rayleigh
                                                          Long John Silvers Rayleigh @Greg
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                                                          @Greg:

                                                          This technically could hold true depending on how Wano considers Onigashima. Is it part of Wano? Or is it separate? Is it even an island? Either way, it falls into the 'winter' part of Wano so even if it is technically separated by water, I'm still betting that it's considered part of Wano.

                                                          I will say wherever kaido falls there will be plenty of witnesses especially if kaido has been a tyrant to wano, thats been a prevalent theme for the most part, if a villain makes key to the arc people of a certain area suffer than theyll be defeated in that area. Which is why jack coming back was really a near certainty.

                                                          Also think wano might be alabasta sized which would lgive a little more believability to your 4 seasoned wano idea, since it's a big place different areas having different weather seasons would work out fine

                                                          Chapter 437 Discussion after franky decides to join the Strawhats:

                                                          So who think Usopp is inside that duffelbag?

                                                          H x H Chimera Ant Arc / OP Manga Spoiler

                                                          Spoiler:

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                                                            le crystal @ladyhawke
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                                                            le crystal
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                                                            @ladyhawke:

                                                            I already expressed how Oda's view on the matter is outdated, plenty of shonens these days feature female characters that get beaten, and who play a more active role than just be a damsel in distress.

                                                            There was a certain female East Blue villain who went by the name of Alvida….

                                                            ↑Biological Weaopn of Doom and Destruction

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                                                              fuzi11 @le crystal
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                                                              @le:

                                                              There was a certain female East Blue villain who went by the name of Alvida….

                                                              And let's not forget mrs merry Christmas who got wrecked. But i admit, she was the last female to get wrecked by a guy

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                                                                ladyhawke @le crystal
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                                                                @le:

                                                                There was a certain female East Blue villain who went by the name of Alvida….

                                                                Yeah I already mentioned her in my very first reply to mbaruh.😉

                                                                It's just a few posts above.

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                                                                  le crystal @ladyhawke
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                                                                  le crystal
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                                                                  @ladyhawke:

                                                                  Yeah I already mentioned her in my very first reply to mbaruh.😉

                                                                  It's just a few posts above.

                                                                  Didn't notice that, sry 😁
                                                                  Hmmm, but seriously can you imagine Oda drawing Luffy giving Hancock a first class beatdown? And you know Luffy somehow enjoys punching his opponents faces…. I won't mind seeing that (even though I have nothing against Hancock) but I already feel the fury and rage of Hancock fanboys :ninja: btw I like your avatar

                                                                  Back to topic. If Momosuke's tale = Momontaro, and Oda decides to follow the original story closely, it means that Luffy (monkey) Inurashi (dog) and Marco (pheasant) will have tons of arguments along the way… (the dog wanted to kill the pheasant at 1st in the original story)

                                                                  ↑Biological Weaopn of Doom and Destruction

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                                                                    ladyhawke @le crystal
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                                                                    @le:

                                                                    Didn't notice that, sry 😁
                                                                    Hmmm, but seriously can you imagine Oda drawing Luffy giving Hancock a first class beatdown? And you know Luffy somehow enjoys punching his opponents faces…. I won't mind seeing that (even though I have nothing against Hancock) but I already feel the fury and rage of Hancock fanboys :ninja: btw I like your avatar

                                                                    Back to topic. If Momosuke's tale = Momontaro, and Oda decides to follow the original story closely, it means that Luffy (monkey) Inurashi (dog) and Marco (pheasant) will have tons of arguments along the way… (the dog wanted to kill the pheasant at 1st in the original story)

                                                                    It's ok, it's easy to miss it in that wall of text.😆

                                                                    psst I wouldn't mind seeing that either, not a Hammock fan :ninja:

                                                                    And thanks.Based on your set I get a feeling you're a Crocodile fan too, and your sig is actually my favorite pairing.

                                                                    That's an interesting point, but from the looks of it Marco and Inu go way back, when Oden was still part of WB's crew before he was scouted by Roger. But it would be interesting to see them not get along too well. I'm still trying to figure out what Marco could gain from getting on board with this plan, revenge on Kaido for trying to attack WB during the war?
                                                                    It's not that strong of a reason imo, since Kaido's plan was foiled by Shanks. But looks like revenge is something the WB pirates care about a lot.

                                                                    It would be interesting to see some divergence in their views, especially between Luffy and the others. Luffy won't kill his enemies, while I recall Raizou saying that they want to kill the Shogun.So it would be interesting to see them disagree on that.

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                                                                      sanji''s_dad @le crystal
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                                                                      sanji''s_dad
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                                                                      @le:

                                                                      Didn't notice that, sry 😁
                                                                      Hmmm, but seriously can you imagine Oda drawing Luffy giving Hancock a first class beatdown? And you know Luffy somehow enjoys punching his opponents faces…. I won't mind seeing that (even though I have nothing against Hancock) but I already feel the fury and rage of Hancock fanboys :ninja: btw I like your avatar
                                                                      Back to topic. If Momosuke's tale = Momontaro, and Oda decides to follow the original story closely, it means that Luffy (monkey) Inurashi (dog) and Marco (pheasant) will have tons of arguments along the way… (the dog wanted to kill the pheasant at 1st in the original story)

                                                                      That would have actually had happened if she had not turned the people that helped Luffy back to normal from statues and Luffy did not really have a choice but to let it slide since he needed her ship to get off the island and don't forgot that when Luffy left his home island he could not navigate plus even if he could he could have he would not have gotten into impel down with her help plus the name HANdCOCK is enough punishment since she also wants to put her hand on Luffy's lol

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                                                                        HacheBe @sanji''s_dad
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                                                                        About the Big Mom ally thing. I don't see it going another way because Luffy can't fight BM rn and I am still not entirely convinced that Luffy will be able to fight Kaido on Wano, nor do I think he will.

                                                                        What I think is gonna happen is Luffy is gonna demand Sanji back and then there will be a scene of Big Mom realizing who it is and then talking down on Luffy and then Luffy is gonna say "Look Lady I don't have time for this I have to go kick Kaido's ass" or something along the lines. Then she will be interested and give him whatever he needs to take down Kaido including Tamago and Pekoms.

                                                                        I could potentially see her attack Luffy on sight and Luffy defending himself but I don't see a large scale fight with anyone in that arc. The only thing is I really can't see how the vinnsmokes are gonna be involved.

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                                                                          mbaruh @le crystal
                                                                          @le crystal last edited by
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                                                                          mbaruh
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                                                                          @le:

                                                                          Back to topic. If Momosuke's tale = Momontaro, and Oda decides to follow the original story closely, it means that Luffy (monkey) Inurashi (dog) and Marco (pheasant) will have tons of arguments along the way… (the dog wanted to kill the pheasant at 1st in the original story)

                                                                          That actually follows the "the animals are the admirals" line, because Kuzan and Sakazuki always had conflicting views on how to handle things, and eventually had that fight on PH.

                                                                          What's going on with the monkey in the story? could give a hint about Borsalino, because so far we know almost nothing about him.

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                                                                            ladyhawke
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                                                                            Oh I guess I should have posted the tale, so that people who are interested get to read it.
                                                                            http://etc.usf.edu/lit2go/72/japanese-fairy-tales/4845/momotaro-or-the-story-of-the-son-of-a-peach/

                                                                            ! > Long, long ago there lived, an old man and an old woman; they were peasants, and had to work hard to earn their daily rice. The old man used to go and cut grass for the farmers around, and while he was gone the old woman, his wife, did the work of the house and worked in their own little rice field.One day the old man went to the hills as usual to cut grass and the old woman took some clothes to the river to wash.
                                                                            It was nearly summer, and the country was very beautiful to see in its fresh greenness as the two old people went on their way to work. The grass on the banks of the river looked like emerald velvet, and the pussy willows along the edge of the water were shaking out their soft tassels.
                                                                            The breezes blew and ruffled the smooth surface of the water into wavelets, and passing on touched the cheeks of the old couple who, for some reason they could not explain, felt very happy that morning.
                                                                            The old woman at last found a nice spot by the river bank and put her basket down. Then she set to work to wash the clothes; she took them one by one out of the basket and washed them in the river and rubbed them on the stones. The water was as clear as crystal, and she could see the tiny fish swimming to and fro, and the pebbles at the bottom.
                                                                            As she was busy washing her clothes a great peach came bumping down the stream. The old woman looked up from her work and saw this large peach. She was sixty years of age, yet in all her life she had never seen such a big peach as this.
                                                                            “How delicious that peach must be!” she said to herself. “I must certainly get it and take it home to my old man.”
                                                                            She stretched out her arm to try and get it, but it was quite out of her reach. She looked about for a stick, but there was not one to be seen, and if she went to look for one she would lose the peach.
                                                                            Stopping a moment to think what she would do, she remembered an old charm-verse. Now she began to clap her hands to keep time to the rolling of the peach down stream, and while she clapped she sang this song:
                                                                            “Distant water is bitter,
                                                                            The near water is sweet;
                                                                            Pass by the distant water
                                                                            And come into the sweet.”
                                                                            Strange to say, as soon as she began to repeat this little song the peach began to come nearer and nearer the bank where the old woman was standing, till at last it stopped just in front of her so that she was able to take it up in her hands. The old woman was delighted. She could not go on with her work, so happy and excited was she, so she put all the clothes back in her bamboo basket, and with the basket on her back and the peach in her hand she hurried homewards.
                                                                            It seemed a very long time to her to wait till her husband returned. The old man at last came back as the sun was setting, with a big bundle of grass on his back—so big that he was almost hidden and she could hardly see him. He seemed very tired and used the scythe for a walking stick, leaning on it as he walked along.
                                                                            As soon as the old woman saw him she called out:
                                                                            “O Fii San! (old man) I have been waiting for you to come home for such a long time to-day!”
                                                                            “What is the matter? Why are you so impatient?” asked the old man, wondering at her unusual eagerness. “Has anything happened while I have been away?”
                                                                            “Oh, no!” answered the old woman, “nothing has happened, only I have found a nice present for you!”
                                                                            “That is good,” said the old man. He then washed his feet in a basin of water and stepped up to the veranda.
                                                                            The old woman now ran into the little room and brought out from the cupboard the big peach. It felt even heavier than before. She held it up to him, saying:
                                                                            “Just look at this! Did you ever see such a large peach in all your life?”
                                                                            When the old man looked at the peach he was greatly astonished and said:
                                                                            “This is indeed the largest peach I have ever seen! Wherever did you buy it?”
                                                                            “I did not buy it,” answered the old woman. “I found it in the river where I was washing.” And she told him the whole story.
                                                                            “I am very glad that you have found it. Let us eat it now, for I am hungry,” said the O Fii San.
                                                                            He brought out the kitchen knife, and, placing the peach on a board, was about to cut it when, wonderful to tell, the peach split in two of itself and a clear voice said:
                                                                            “Wait a bit, old man!” and out stepped a beautiful little child.
                                                                            The old man and his wife were both so astonished at what they saw that they fell to the ground. The child spoke again:
                                                                            “Don’t be afraid. I am no demon or fairy. I will tell you the truth. Heaven has had compassion on you. Every day and every night you have lamented that you had no child. Your cry has been heard and I am sent to be the son of your old age!”
                                                                            On hearing this the old man and his wife were very happy. They had cried night and day for sorrow at having no child to help them in their lonely old age, and now that their prayer was answered they were so lost with joy that they did not know where to put their hands or their feet. First the old man took the child up in his arms, and then the old woman did the same; and they named him MOMOTARO, OR SON OF A PEACH, because he had come out of a peach.
                                                                            The years passed quickly by and the child grew to be fifteen years of age. He was taller and far stronger than any other boys of his own age, he had a handsome face and a heart full of courage, and he was very wise for his years. The old couple’s pleasure was very great when they looked at him, for he was just what they thought a hero ought to be like.
                                                                            One day Momotaro came to his foster-father and said solemnly:
                                                                            “Father, by a strange chance we have become father and son. Your goodness to me has been higher than the mountain grasses which it was your daily work to cut, and deeper than the river where my mother washes the clothes. I do not know how to thank you enough.”
                                                                            “Why,” answered the old man, “it is a matter of course that a father should bring up his son. When you are older it will be your turn to take care of us, so after all there will be no profit or loss between us—all will be equal. Indeed, I am rather surprised that you should thank me in this way!” and the old man looked bothered.
                                                                            “I hope you will be patient with me,” said Momotaro; “but before I begin to pay back your goodness to me I have a request to make which I hope you will grant me above everything else.”
                                                                            “I will let you do whatever you wish, for you are quite different to all other boys!”
                                                                            “Then let me go away at once!”
                                                                            “What do you say? Do you wish to leave your old father and mother and go away from your old home?”
                                                                            “I will surely come back again, if you let me go now!”
                                                                            “Where are you going?”
                                                                            “You must think it strange that I want to go away,” said Momotaro, “because I have not yet told you my reason. Far away from here to the northeast of Japan there is an island in the sea. This island is the stronghold of a band of devils. I have often heard how they invade this land, kill and rob the people, and carry off all they can find. They are not only very wicked but they are disloyal to our Emperor and disobey his laws. They are also cannibals, for they kill and eat some of the poor people who are so unfortunate as to fall into their hands. These devils are very hateful beings. I must go and conquer them and bring back all the plunder of which they have robbed this land. It is for this reason that I want to go away for a short time!”
                                                                            The old man was much surprised at hearing all this from a mere boy of fifteen. He thought it best to let the boy go. He was strong and fearless, and besides all this, the old man knew he was no common child, for he had been sent to them as a gift from Heaven, and he felt quite sure that the devils would be powerless to harm him.
                                                                            “All you say is very interesting, Momotaro,” said the old man. “I will not hinder you in your determination. You may go if you wish. Go to the island as soon as ever you like and destroy the demons and bring peace to the land.”
                                                                            “Thank you, for all your kindness,” said Momotaro, who began to get ready to go that very day. He was full of courage and did not know what fear was.
                                                                            The old man and woman at once set to work to pound rice in the kitchen mortar to make cakes for Momotaro to take with him on his journey.
                                                                            At last the cakes were made and Momotaro was ready to start on his long journey.
                                                                            Parting is always sad. So it was now. The eyes of the two old people were filled with tears and their voices trembled as they said:
                                                                            “Go with all care and speed. We expect you back victorious!”
                                                                            Momotaro was very sorry to leave his old parents (though he knew he was coming back as soon as he could), for he thought of how lonely they would be while he was away. But he said “Good-by!” quite bravely.
                                                                            “I am going now. Take good care of yourselves while I am away. Good-by!” And he stepped quickly out of the house. In silence the eyes of Momotaro and his parents met in farewell.
                                                                            Momotaro now hurried on his way till it was midday. He began to feel hungry, so he opened his bag and took out one of the rice-cakes and sat down under a tree by the side of the road to eat it. While he was thus having his lunch a dog almost as large as a colt came running out from the high grass. He made straight for Momotaro, and showing his teeth, said in a fierce way:
                                                                            “You are a rude man to pass my field without asking permission first. If you leave me all the cakes you have in your bag you may go; otherwise I will bite you till I kill you!”
                                                                            Momotaro only laughed scornfully:
                                                                            “What is that you are saying? Do you know who I am? I am Momotaro, and I am on my way to subdue the devils in their island stronghold in the northeast of Japan. If you try to stop me on my way there I will cut you in two from the head downwards!”
                                                                            The dog’s manner at once changed. His tail dropped between his legs, and coming near he bowed so low that his forehead touched the ground.
                                                                            “What do I hear? The name of Momotaro? Are you indeed Momotaro? I have often heard of your great strength. Not knowing who you were I have behaved in a very stupid way. Will you please pardon my rudeness? Are you indeed on your way to invade the Island of Devils? If you will take such a rude fellow with you as one of your followers, I shall be very grateful to you.”
                                                                            “I think I can take you with me if you wish to go,” said Momotaro.
                                                                            “Thank you!” said the dog. “By the way, I am very very hungry. Will you give me one of the cakes you are carrying?”
                                                                            “This is the best kind of cake there is in Japan,” said Momotaro. “I cannot spare you a whole one; I will give you half of one.”
                                                                            “Thank you very much,” said the dog, taking the piece thrown to him.
                                                                            Then Momotaro got up and the dog followed. For a long time they walked over the hills and through the valleys. As they were going along an animal came down from a tree a little ahead of them. The creature soon came up to Momotaro and said:
                                                                            “Good morning, Momotaro! You are welcome in this part of the country. Will you allow me to go with you?”
                                                                            The dog answered jealously:
                                                                            “Momotaro already has a dog to accompany him. Of what use is a monkey like you in battle? We are on our way to fight the devils! Get away!”
                                                                            The dog and the monkey began to quarrel and bite, for these two animals always hate each other.
                                                                            “Now, don’t quarrel!” said Momotaro, putting himself between them. “Wait a moment, dog!”
                                                                            “It is not at all dignified for you to have such a creature as that following you!” said the dog.
                                                                            “What do you know about it?” asked Momotaro; and pushing aside the dog, he spoke to the monkey:
                                                                            “Who are you?”
                                                                            “I am a monkey living in these hills,” replied the monkey.” I heard of your expedition to the Island of Devils, and I have come to go with you. Nothing will please me more than to follow you!”
                                                                            “Do you really wish to go to the Island of Devils and fight with me?”
                                                                            “Yes, sir,” replied the monkey.
                                                                            “I admire your courage,” said Momotaro. “Here is a piece of one of my fine rice-cakes. Come along!”
                                                                            So the monkey joined Momotaro. The dog and the monkey did not get on well together. They were always snapping at each other as they went along, and always wanting to have a fight. This made Momotaro very cross, and at last he sent the dog on ahead with a flag and put the monkey behind with a sword, and he placed himself between them with a war-fan, which is made of iron.
                                                                            By and by they came to a large field. Here a bird flew down and alighted on the ground just in front of the little party. It was the most beautiful bird Momotaro had ever seen. On its body were five different robes of feathers and its head was covered with a scarlet cap.
                                                                            The dog at once ran at the bird and tried to seize and kill it. But the bird struck out its spurs and flew at the dog’s tail, and the fight went hard with both.
                                                                            Momotaro, as he looked on, could not help admiring the bird; it showed so much spirit in the fight. It would certainly make a good fighter.
                                                                            Momotaro went up to the two combatants, and holding the dog back, said to the bird:
                                                                            “You rascal! you are hindering my journey. Surrender at once, and I will take you with me. If you don’t I will set this dog to bite your head off!”
                                                                            Then the bird surrendered at once, and begged to be taken into Momotaro’s company.
                                                                            “I do not know what excuse to offer for quarreling with the dog, your servant, but I did not see you. I am a miserable bird called a pheasant. It is very generous of you to pardon my rudeness and to take me with you. Please allow me to follow you behind the dog and the monkey!”
                                                                            “I congratulate you on surrendering so soon,” said Momotaro, smiling. “Come and join us in our raid on the devils.”
                                                                            “Are you going to take this bird with you also?” asked the dog, interrupting.
                                                                            “Why do you ask such an unnecessary question? Didn’t you hear what I said? I take the bird with me because I wish to!”
                                                                            “Humph!” said the dog.
                                                                            Then Momotaro stood and gave this order:
                                                                            “Now all of you must listen to me. The first thing necessary in an army is harmony. It is a wise saying which says that ‘Advantage on earth is better than advantage in Heaven!’ Union amongst ourselves is better than any earthly gain. When we are not at peace amongst ourselves it is no easy thing to subdue an enemy. From now, you three, the dog, the monkey and the pheasant, must be friends with one mind. The one who first begins a quarrel will be discharged on the spot!”
                                                                            All the three promised not to quarrel. The pheasant was now made a member of Momotaro’s suite, and received half a cake.
                                                                            Momotaro’s influence was so great that the three became good friends, and hurried onwards with him as their leader.
                                                                            Hurrying on day after day they at last came out upon the shore of the North-Eastern Sea. There was nothing to be seen as far as the horizon—not a sign of any island. All that broke the stillness was the rolling of the waves upon the shore.
                                                                            Now, the dog and the monkey and the pheasant had come very bravely all the way through the long valleys and over the hills, but they had never seen the sea before, and for the first time since they set out they were bewildered and gazed at each other in silence. How were they to cross the water and get to the Island of Devils?
                                                                            Momotaro soon saw that they were daunted by the sight of the sea, and to try them he spoke loudly and roughly:
                                                                            “Why do you hesitate? Are you afraid of the sea? Oh! what cowards you are! It is impossible to take such weak creatures as you with me to fight the demons. It will be far better for me to go alone. I discharge you all at once!”
                                                                            The three animals were taken aback at this sharp reproof, and clung to Momotaro’s sleeve, begging him not to send them away.
                                                                            “Please, Momotaro!” said the dog.
                                                                            “We have come thus far!” said the monkey.
                                                                            “It is inhuman to leave us here!” said the pheasant.
                                                                            “We are not at all afraid of the sea,” said the monkey again.
                                                                            “Please do take us with you,” said the pheasant.
                                                                            “Do please,” said the dog.
                                                                            They had now gained a little courage, so Momotaro said:
                                                                            “Well, then, I will take you with me, but be careful!”
                                                                            Momotaro now got a small ship, and they all got on board. The wind and weather were fair, and the ship went like an arrow over the sea. It was the first time they had ever been on the water, and so at first the dog, the monkey and the pheasant were frightened at the waves and the rolling of the vessel, but by degrees they grew accustomed to the water and were quite happy again. Every day they paced the deck of their little ship, eagerly looking out for the demons’ island.
                                                                            When they grew tired of this, they told each other stories of all their exploits of which they were proud, and then played games together; and Momotaro found much to amuse him in listening to the three animals and watching their antics, and in this way he forgot that the way was long and that he was tired of the voyage and of doing nothing. He longed to be at work killing the monsters who had done so much harm in his country.
                                                                            As the wind blew in their favor and they met no storms the ship made a quick voyage, and one day when the sun was shining brightly a sight of land rewarded the four watchers at the bow.
                                                                            Momotaro knew at once that what they saw was the devils’ stronghold. On the top of the precipitous shore, looking out to sea, was a large castle. Now that his enterprise was close at hand, he was deep in thought with his head leaning on his hands, wondering how he should begin the attack. His three followers watched him, waiting for orders. At last he called to the pheasant:
                                                                            “It is a great advantage for us to have you with us.” said Momotaro to the bird, “for you have good wings. Fly at once to the castle and engage the demons to fight. We will follow you.”
                                                                            The pheasant at once obeyed. He flew off from the ship beating the air gladly with his wings. The bird soon reached the island and took up his position on the roof in the middle of the castle, calling out loudly:
                                                                            “All you devils listen to me! The great Japanese general Momotaro has come to fight you and to take your stronghold from you. If you wish to save your lives surrender at once, and in token of your submission you must break off the horns that grow on your forehead. If you do not surrender at once, but make up your mind to fight, we, the pheasant, the dog and the monkey, will kill you all by biting and tearing you to death!”
                                                                            The horned demons looking up and only seeing a pheasant, laughed and said:
                                                                            “A wild pheasant, indeed! It is ridiculous to hear such words from a mean thing like you. Wait till you get a blow from one of our iron bars!”
                                                                            Very angry, indeed, were the devils. They shook their horns and their shocks of red hair fiercely, and rushed to put on tiger skin trousers to make themselves look more terrible. They then brought out great iron bars and ran to where the pheasant perched over their heads, and tried to knock him down. The pheasant flew to one side to escape the blow, and then attacked the head of first one and then another demon. He flew round and round them, beating the air with his wings so fiercely and ceaselessly, that the devils began to wonder whether they had to fight one or many more birds.
                                                                            In the meantime, Momotaro had brought his ship to land. As they had approached, he saw that the shore was like a precipice, and that the large castle was surrounded by high walls and large iron gates and was strongly fortified.
                                                                            Momotaro landed, and with the hope of finding some way of entrance, walked up the path towards the top, followed by the monkey and the dog. They soon came upon two beautiful damsels washing clothes in a stream. Momotaro saw that the clothes were blood-stained, and that as the two maidens washed, the tears were falling fast down their cheeks. He stopped and spoke to them:
                                                                            “Who are you, and why do you weep?”
                                                                            “We are captives of the Demon King. We were carried away from our homes to this island, and though we are the daughters of Daimios (Lords), we are obliged to be his servants, and one day he will kill us”—and the maidens held up the blood-stained clothes—”and eat us, and there is no one to help us!”
                                                                            And their tears burst out afresh at this horrible thought.
                                                                            “I will rescue you,” said Momotaro. “Do not weep any more, only show me how I may get into the castle.”
                                                                            Then the two ladies led the way and showed Momotaro a little back door in the lowest part of the castle wall—so small that Momotaro could hardly crawl in.
                                                                            The pheasant, who was all this time fighting hard, saw Momotaro and his little band rush in at the back.
                                                                            Momotaro’s onslaught was so furious that the devils could not stand against him. At first their foe had been a single bird, the pheasant, but now that Momotaro and the dog and the monkey had arrived they were bewildered, for the four enemies fought like a hundred, so strong were they. Some of the devils fell off the parapet of the castle and were dashed to pieces on the rocks beneath; others fell into the sea and were drowned; many were beaten to death by the three animals.
                                                                            The chief of the devils at last was the only one left. He made up his mind to surrender, for he knew that his enemy was stronger than mortal man.
                                                                            He came up humbly to Momotaro and threw down his iron bar, and kneeling down at the victor’s feet he broke off the horns on his head in token of submission, for they were the sign of his strength and power.
                                                                            “I am afraid of you,” he said meekly. “I cannot stand against you. I will give you all the treasure hidden in this castle if you will spare my life!”
                                                                            Momotaro laughed.
                                                                            “It is not like you, big devil, to beg for mercy, is it? I cannot spare your wicked life, however much you beg, for you have killed and tortured many people and robbed our country for many years.”
                                                                            Then Momotaro tied the devil chief up and gave him into the monkey’s charge. Having done this, he went into all the rooms of the castle and set the prisoners free and gathered together all the treasure he found.
                                                                            The dog and the pheasant carried home the plunder, and thus Momotaro returned triumphantly to his home, taking with him the devil chief as a captive.
                                                                            The two poor damsels, daughters of Daimios, and others whom the wicked demon had carried off to be his slaves, were taken safely to their own homes and delivered to their parents.
                                                                            The whole country made a hero of Momotaro on his triumphant return, and rejoiced that the country was now freed from the robber devils who had been a terror of the land for a long time.
                                                                            The old couple’s joy was greater than ever, and the treasure Momotaro had brought home with him enabled them to live in peace and plenty to the end of their days.

                                                                            As you can tell the dog and the monkey fight because these two animals don't get along, then when the pheasent appears the dog attacks him as well . But Momotaro is able to pacify them, and the cakes he has with him are called kimidango(millet dumplings).
                                                                            There are small variants depending on the regions of Japan, some have Momotaro go with a different set of allies, from the Monkey-crab battle.
                                                                            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Crab_and_the_Monkey

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                                                                              le crystal @ladyhawke
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                                                                              @ladyhawke:

                                                                              It's ok, it's easy to miss it in that wall of text.😆

                                                                              psst I wouldn't mind seeing that either, not a Hammock fan :ninja:

                                                                              And thanks.Based on your set I get a feeling you're a Crocodile fan too, and your sig is actually my favorite pairing.

                                                                              That's an interesting point, but from the looks of it Marco and Inu go way back, when Oden was still part of WB's crew before he was scouted by Roger. But it would be interesting to see them not get along too well. I'm still trying to figure out what Marco could gain from getting on board with this plan, revenge on Kaido for trying to attack WB during the war?
                                                                              It's not that strong of a reason imo, since Kaido's plan was foiled by Shanks. But looks like revenge is something the WB pirates care about a lot.

                                                                              It would be interesting to see some divergence in their views, especially between Luffy and the others. Luffy won't kill his enemies, while I recall Raizou saying that they want to kill the Shogun.So it would be interesting to see them disagree on that.

                                                                              Yes I like crocodile and like the pairing because its fun seeing 2 psychos together :ninja:
                                                                              Luffy just seems to not really care whether his opponents survive or not. He won't go fighting with the intent to kill but doesn't really go to great lengths to ensure his opponents survival.

                                                                              I think his main goal is just to send opponents flying…

                                                                              ↑Biological Weaopn of Doom and Destruction

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                                                                                ladyhawke @le crystal
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                                                                                @le:

                                                                                Yes I like crocodile and like the pairing because its fun seeing 2 psychos together :ninja:
                                                                                Luffy just seems to not really care whether his opponents survive or not. He won't go fighting with the intent to kill but doesn't really go to great lengths to ensure his opponents survival.

                                                                                I think his main goal is just to send opponents flying…

                                                                                Or crashing down in DD's case.😁

                                                                                I'm not really convinced, but I guess he prolly wouldn't care too much, given that it's the Shogun and not Kaido that Raizo meant. Plus in the manga we rarely see the good guys kill the bad buys.So it prolly won't happen anyway.

                                                                                I wonder if the fact that Nekomamushi is the one who is going to get Marco is a sign, that Inu might not get along too well with the latter? At any rate it would be interesting to see them interact.

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                                                                                  Thanos2 @Greg
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                                                                                  @Greg:

                                                                                  He won't be the one to kill him though. That'll be Blackbeard. But that's another story.

                                                                                  Hey Greg, i've been a big fan of yours for awhile. I heard you say the samething on an OPP episode. Is there any reason to why you think Blackbeard will be the one to kill Kaido? If you don't mind could you elaborate on this? Thank you and keep up on the great work you're doing at one-piece.com

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                                                                                  • BellisarioFaith
                                                                                    BellisarioFaith
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                                                                                    Funny enough, if anyone else here reads One Piece Party (the One Piece parody spin-off), they actually did a "Tale of Momotaro" re-enactment for the third issue…and Luffy was Momotaro. Foreshadowing? :ninja: JK, I know it's meant to be for fun and Oda-sensei isn't involved with making it, but that'd be kind of funny if a Momotaro allusion, with Luffy as Momotaro, actually did happen in the story proper.

                                                                                    Hidden:

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                                                                                      ladyhawke @BellisarioFaith
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                                                                                      @BellisarioFaith:

                                                                                      Funny enough, if anyone else here reads One Piece Party (the One Piece parody spin-off), they actually did a "Tale of Momotaro" re-enactment for the third issue…and Luffy was Momotaro. Foreshadowing? :ninja: JK, I know it's meant to be for fun and Oda-sensei isn't involved with making it, but that'd be kind of funny if a Momotaro allusion, with Luffy as Momotaro, actually did happen in the story proper.

                                                                                      Yep I read that, and if I'm not mistaken it's the one with Ace and Sabo in it.
                                                                                      And lol Oni Island is shaped after Oars. Kaido also has similar horns :ninja:

                                                                                      It's a rather popular story, so it's not that surprising to see it used like that.

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                                                                                      • Don Quichotte De Flamingo
                                                                                        Don Quichotte De Flamingo
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                                                                                        Don Quichotte De Flamingo
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                                                                                        Don Quichotte De Flamingo
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                                                                                        I think fighting BM in an all-out battle is no option.
                                                                                        Luffy will "defeat" her Magellan-style, by accomplishing his goals there.
                                                                                        By infiltrating WCI and freeing Sanji, while also getting the road poneglyph he "defeats" BM anyways.
                                                                                        We sure get a clash, because Luffy wants afterall FI, but somehow i can see Luffy bringing BM´s daughters on his side(especially Bonney) , so that BM will become an "ally". (more respect him and give FI to him)
                                                                                        The Vinsmokes will serve as the big baddies to actually beat, maybe by them betraying BM and so Luffy has a chance to gain her trust in the end.

                                                                                        About Momonosuke.
                                                                                        I don´t know if it has been mentioned so far, but the last couple of days i had to think about his "i have met Roger" line.
                                                                                        In my opinion he actually thinks that, but never did so physically.
                                                                                        Taking into account that his clan passed the knowledge of the poneglyphs from generation to generation, i think it´s fair to assume that this also happened to Momonosuke, but he doesn´t know/can control it yet.
                                                                                        I think him becoming shogun will require him having that "lost" knowledge and somehow Oden was able to project his mind into Momonosuke.
                                                                                        That´s why Momonosuke feels sick while hearing those "voices", because he gets used to the knowledge he has received not knowingly.

                                                                                        Unrevealed_Loki/Rocks/Im-san_

                                                                                        IslandElbaf/Raftel/GodValley

                                                                                        UnresolvedWeevil´s plan/Explaining DFs/Deal with Kuma-Bonney´s past/Joy-Boy/Zunisha´s story/Rocks flashback/Void Century/Rioponeglyph/Uranus/the D.clan

                                                                                        DFWind/Metal/Acid/Liquid/Time-Stop

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                                                                                          le crystal
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                                                                                          I hope that Oda will include the Red Oni Blue Oni tale reference. That's my all time favourite Japanese folklore tale.

                                                                                          ↑Biological Weaopn of Doom and Destruction

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                                                                                          • Solid
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                                                                                            Jinbei is definitely a blue oni reference, as for the red one… fisher tiger?

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                                                                                              Australopithecus @ladyhawke
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                                                                                              @ladyhawke:

                                                                                              About the tree thing, I read that as him being uncomfortable because of the voice he's hearing. In the next panel I believe Kinemon mentions the bit about the voice and how Momo has the same disposition as Oden.So to me they're both related.
                                                                                              http://i.imgur.com/xCK2llC.png

                                                                                              http://i.imgur.com/gUO7lvC.png

                                                                                              So he starts by saying that he "still" feels terrible

                                                                                              Oh, yes, about the word ‘still’ in Momo’s speech, that was Mangastream’s translation. I provided you with Viz’ translation. It is safer to go with the latter. In Viz’ translation, Momo doesn’t say I ‘still’ feel terrible. He just says that he doesn’t feel good. Also, notice how Kinemon responds to Momo's groans of anguish: he tells Momo that he can wait for them at the ‘bottom’. See? In other words, what would make Momo comfortable in that situation is to wait for them at the ‘bottom’. It is a strong suggestion of ‘fear of heights’.
                                                                                              @ladyhawke:

                                                                                              , and he continues to explain why: he's hearing a loud voice.
                                                                                              So Momo is feeling unwell because of the voice, and you see Law pause there a moment as if he's waiting for the explanation to come.

                                                                                              That is partially true: Momo didn’t follow his words with “ ‘because’ the closer we get to the whale the more I can hear this loud voice”. He just separately said “the closer we get to the whale the more I can hear this loud voice”. There were no ‘reason indicators’ like ‘because’, ‘since’, etc. So, it is perfectly okay to interpret them as two different, unrelated ideas 😃
                                                                                              @ladyhawke:

                                                                                              , and you see Law pause there a moment as if he's waiting for the explanation to come.

                                                                                              I don’t quite understand what you mean by ‘pause’. I can interpret your words as either Law stopped speaking or stopped walking for a moment. It is not like Law ‘was’ speaking for the pause to be a pause in his speech, so that leaves me with the latter: Law stopped walking. However, I still do not see the indication of that (if any). If I missed something, please point it out: it’ll help greatly.

                                                                                              Personally, I interpreted it as Law was quietly listening to what was said by Momo as they were walking toward the entrance in the whale.

                                                                                              Kaido has a Dragon Devil Fruit | The National Treasure Is the Ancient Weapon Uranus | Monkey D. Dragon Has the Wind Devil Fruit

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