@sanji''s_dad:
more like 7 with the horns on his head also it would be funny if luffy took jacks ship lol
To be very honest I will not be surprised if this happens. Considering how often Oda seems to answer our weekly questions in the next issues, I am gradually beginning to believe that Oda lurks in this Forum.
where can i cash my "told you so" cheques about the late Tokugawa era being the basis of Wano and it's plot, anyone know where i can do that, I'd like to know as soon as possible, where to accomplish that
@sanji''s_dad:
it was not just the west they opened up trade to the entire world
The West was the world back then. By the end of the century pretty much almost literally.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
But like people are saying the shogun (who might be one of the calamities and the actual right hand of Kaido) might be Zoro's enemy but wtf why one enemy worthy of note after 5 arcs?! Fishman island, punk Hazard, Dressrosa, Zou, Wholecake island and THEN Wano for Zoro to show what he's capable of? Fuck that I want him to fight Jack.
The Shogun is the leader of Wano. A native leader of Wano.
It's extremely unlikely he's a member of Kaidou's crew.
@Monkey:
where can i cash my "told you so" cheques about the late Tokugawa era being the basis of Wano and it's plot, anyone know where i can do that, I'd like to know as soon as possible, where to accomplish that
but from what i've read,after the meiji restoration,tokugawa shogunate is finished and the power is restored to the emperor.but here,the emperer is kaidou,so how will that work?
I think Law will lead the fight to Jack,while Luffy goes to find out Sanji..
Doesn't really sound like Luffy. He's more of a "first come, first serve" kind of guy when it comes to dealing with problems. Before Luffy can do what he wanted, he would need to convince reluctant Pekoms first. And reluctant Pekoms might be even more reluctant to traitorously lead Luffy to his boss while Jack is trying to kill his homeland.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
but from what i've read,after the meiji restoration,tokugawa shogunate is finished and the power is restored to the emperor.but here,the emperer is kaidou,so how will that work?
Maybe there's an emperor of Wano, or there isn't one. Maybe Wano isn't a carbon copy of Tokugawa era Japan, just inspired by it.
but from what i've read,after the meiji restoration,tokugawa shogunate is finished and the power is restored to the emperor.but here,the emperer is kaidou,so how will that work?
How the heck did you conclude that Kaidou was analogous to the Japanese emperor in the Wano plot?? He's not. He's analogous to Commodore Perry roughly. It's complete coincidence that he also is called an emperor in the OP universe for unrelated reasons. I mean it's not like the Japanese emperor was the only emperor on earth at the time in real life either.
Also it should be said that power wasn't really restored to the Japanese emperor exactly. Or not really fully. Japanese emperors for the past 1000 years or so have mostly existed as glorious symbols that (until the end of WW2) the real rulers pretend to be serving under. The three Shogunates all were based on this practice, the Meiji-WW2 governments did this with first powerful oligarches, then genuine parliamentary democracy, and finally a militaristic almost modern Shogunate equivalent…all paying loads of lip service to the emperor being the ruler of Japan.
Maybe there's an emperor of Wano, or there isn't one. Maybe Wano isn't a carbon copy of Tokugawa era Japan, just inspired by it.
I was kinda assuming the emperor is kaidou,and the shogun rules under him,and yeah i was just thinking it will be just somewhat inspired by the meiji/tokugawa part,not completely.
@Monkey:
How the heck did you conclude that Kaidou was analogous to the Japanese emperor in the Wano plot?? He's not. He's analogous to Commodore Perry roughly. It's complete coincidence that he also is called an emperor in the OP universe for unrelated reasons. I mean it's not like the Japanese emperor was the only emperor on earth at the time in real life either.
Also it should be said that power wasn't really restored to the Japanese emperor exactly. Or not really fully. Japanese emperors for the past 1000 years or so have mostly existed as glorious symbols that (until the end of WW2) the real rulers pretend to be serving under. The three Shogunates all were based on this practice, the Meiji-WW2 governments did this with first powerful oligarches, then genuine parliamentary democracy, and finally a militaristic almost modern Shogunate equivalent…all paying loads of lip service to the emperor being the ruler of Japan.
yeah,i just thought that probably the shogun serves under him,added to him being an emperor would make kaidou fill that role.
but if not he,then who do you think will play that role?or will they just introduce democracy in wano?
@sanji''s_dad:
jack is about to attack zou so if zou is their secret weapon we will find out next chapter lol.
Will we though? Or will Oda make countless pages of exaggerated facial expressions and Luffy forcing the trope of making men out of boys?
I doubt Oda even gives us a raw one on one like many people are hoping for. Heck, even if he shows us an actual battle, will it be on panel?
Will we though?
Uh, yes. If the minks say they have a secret weapon, then I don't doubt it will be shown eventually.
Uh, yes. If the minks say they have a secret weapon, then I don't doubt it will be shown eventually.
Unless it relates to the moon
Since jack is attacking during mid-day
Figured I'd put this here: Here's what I think/hope will go down with Jack.
Luffy and Pekoms will be forced to head to Whole Cake Island because the rulers know Luffy can't battle Jack and rescue Sanji in such a short timespan, cuz there's no way he can easily defeat Jack. Also, the Straw Hats want the Sunny to head away in case the Beasts Pirates target it. Raizo may be sent with them as well in order to protect him.
Now as for the battle, I hope Jack wins this conflict and kills Zunisha. This may sound twisted, but hear me out. I've had it up to here with people talking/blubbering of Zoro soloing Jack. There's just no way that's gonna happen. I would expect there to be a pretty big discrepancy between a 300 million guy and a 1 billion guy. Also, Jack fought Fujitora and survived, while Zoro himself got punked by the admiral. It's a little tenuous reasoning, I know, but I'm also drawing on common sense here.
The minks will put up a fight, of course, but in their injured states they will likely be much weaker, even Inuarashi and Nekomamushi. The only unknown variable is Law, who could probably do some stuff to Jack, but I won't go too far into speculating the results of that.
In the end, I believe Jack will overpower the pirate-mink-samurai alliance and kill Zunisha. Zunisha is hardly at its prime, Luffy questioned in 802 how alive it even was. The fact that Zou is home to allies of anti-Kaido warriors and that it has a Road Poneglyph paints a big target on its back, and as long as the Beasts Pirates are actively ruling the seas there may not be any end to the assault. This isn't to say that Zunisha will go down pitifully after getting hit with a few cannonballs, I believe in its dying state it may attack Jack's fleet in order to allow the alliance to escape, and finally go out in a blaze of glory.
Regardless of whether or not Zunisha dies, I also want Jack to win because he ''needs'' the W. Ever since he appeared, I hoped for Jack not to return to Zou: he hasn't had any real victories so far, and for him to be defeated now especially by side characters would not get the Beasts Pirates, one of the top 4 crews in the world, off on a good foot. Instead, I want Jack to assert his dominance over Zou to show that the Straw Hats still have a ''long'' way to go before they can think of challenging a Yonko, one which scared the crap out of the man whom Luffy and Law BARELY beat. We can have a good lesson for our heroes, or something that will only make the story progression confusing and lead to even more shit power level debates.
Spoiler:
I was kinda assuming the emperor is kaidou,and the shogun rules under him,and yeah i was just thinking it will be just somewhat inspired by the meiji/tokugawa part,not completely.
The emperor equivalent (Momonosuke seems more likely at this point) and shogun both must be natives. The whole point of the basis falls apart without at least that much. It becomes nonsense. That Oda is going to use the Wano story to play around with and maybe make a bit of reflection on the Meiji Restoration. Which was based around a civil war. A civil war and modernization that all occurred with an omnipresent foreign shadow hanging over things, with the Shoguns by the way initially being seen as soft and appeasing toward the foreign aggression.
Kaidou is absolutely going to be symbolic of the foreign aggression, he can't be the emperor. How could he be? The Meiji Restoration is seen as a positive! The emperor being "returned" to prominence is at least symbolically positive to a general Japanese audience. Reminder: They still have the royal family!!
How in even a really loose basis could the emperor equivalent be Kaidou?? Not only a foreigner to Wano, but a heavy duty antagonist. Sorry that makes zero sense regardless of how you look at well…anything.
Of course there's a loose basis at the same time. The American force that forced Japan open was aggressive, but it was relatively light-handed compared to the villainy we're already hearing of Kaidou. The super negative experience with foreign involvement to match would have to be an alternate universe where Oda was Chinese.
Also the Shogun's wouldn't have dared harm the emperors, not without heavy secrecy anyway. So if Momonosuke's family is the Japanese royal family equivalent the idea of them being executed as such, and perhaps exiled in Momo's case obviously does not fit the real life events at all.
Oda is also smartly introducing modern more liberal spins on the matter. There was heavy xenophobia on both sides of the Meiji restoration after all. Oda has already cleaned that up so that the Meiji revolutionary equivalent are well aware of the difference between negative foreigners and positive ones, and are gung-ho as shit about an open Wano. And the whole creepy nationalist angle that the story could take here is completely offset by the entire existence of the Strawhats as a factor and as the main vehicle for the audience.
The Meiji revolutionaries were initially NOT willing to create an open wordly Japan whatsoever by comparison. Half the hate toward the Shogun was that he was willing to deal with BARBARIANS!!!
All I can think of is how bad-ass it would be if the elephant wounded Jack. Goddang.
I feel good to have forgotten to read this chapter until the better translation. Pretty good/great chapter.
(I haven't read much of this thread, to see how many people if any have explained the possibility of the elephant having a powerful attack/technique.)
@Kaido:
Figured I'd put this here: Here's what I think/hope will go down with Jack.
Luffy and Pekoms will be forced to head to Whole Cake Island because the rulers know Luffy can't battle Jack and rescue Sanji in such a short timespan, cuz there's no way he can easily defeat Jack. Also, the Straw Hats want the Sunny to head away in case the Beasts Pirates target it. Raizo may be sent with them as well in order to protect him.
Now as for the battle, I hope Jack wins this conflict and kills Zunisha. This may sound twisted, but hear me out. I've had it up to here with people talking/blubbering of Zoro soloing Jack. There's just no way that's gonna happen. I would expect there to be a pretty big discrepancy between a 300 million guy and a 1 billion guy. Also, Jack fought Fujitora and survived, while Zoro himself got punked by the admiral. It's a little tenuous reasoning, I know, but I'm also drawing on common sense here.
The minks will put up a fight, of course, but in their injured states they will likely be much weaker, even Inuarashi and Nekomamushi. The only unknown variable is Law, who could probably do some stuff to Jack, but I won't go too far into speculating the results of that.
In the end, I believe Jack will overpower the pirate-mink-samurai alliance and kill Zunisha. Zunisha is hardly at its prime, Luffy questioned in 802 how alive it even was. The fact that Zou is home to allies of anti-Kaido warriors and that it has a Road Poneglyph paints a big target on its back, and as long as the Beasts Pirates are actively ruling the seas there may not be any end to the assault. This isn't to say that Zunisha will go down pitifully after getting hit with a few cannonballs, I believe in its dying state it may attack Jack's fleet in order to allow the alliance to escape, and finally go out in a blaze of glory.
Regardless of whether or not Zunisha dies, I also want Jack to win because he ''needs'' the W. Ever since he appeared, I hoped for Jack not to return to Zou: he hasn't had any real victories so far, and for him to be defeated now especially by side characters would not get the Beasts Pirates, one of the top 4 crews in the world, off on a good foot. Instead, I want Jack to assert his dominance over Zou to show that the Straw Hats still have a ''long'' way to go before they can think of challenging a Yonko, one which scared the crap out of the man whom Luffy and Law BARELY beat. We can have a good lesson for our heroes, or something that will only make the story progression confusing and lead to even more shit power level debates.
Zoro didn't even fight fujitora he exchanged hit we can't call that a fight then again you didn't even saw what happened between jack and admirals so it's nothing but assumption and lastly bounty means nothing in term of Burt force.
Forgot to mention I literally fell out of my chair in the panel with Luffy's hand extending out. Dang thing (chair) finally gave way. (Well I think the reclining backwards aspect of it gave way at that point. Then a random part later in the chapter, the whole seat/backrest piece toppled over sideways, only leaving the stem/support standing.)
@Kaido:
Figured I'd put this here: Here's what I think/hope will go down with Jack.
Luffy and Pekoms will be forced to head to Whole Cake Island because the rulers know Luffy can't battle Jack and rescue Sanji in such a short timespan, cuz there's no way he can easily defeat Jack. Also, the Straw Hats want the Sunny to head away in case the Beasts Pirates target it. Raizo may be sent with them as well in order to protect him.
Now as for the battle, I hope Jack wins this conflict and kills Zunisha. This may sound twisted, but hear me out. I've had it up to here with people talking/blubbering of Zoro soloing Jack. There's just no way that's gonna happen. I would expect there to be a pretty big discrepancy between a 300 million guy and a 1 billion guy. Also, Jack fought Fujitora and survived, while Zoro himself got punked by the admiral. It's a little tenuous reasoning, I know, but I'm also drawing on common sense here.
The minks will put up a fight, of course, but in their injured states they will likely be much weaker, even Inuarashi and Nekomamushi. The only unknown variable is Law, who could probably do some stuff to Jack, but I won't go too far into speculating the results of that.
In the end, I believe Jack will overpower the pirate-mink-samurai alliance and kill Zunisha. Zunisha is hardly at its prime, Luffy questioned in 802 how alive it even was. The fact that Zou is home to allies of anti-Kaido warriors and that it has a Road Poneglyph paints a big target on its back, and as long as the Beasts Pirates are actively ruling the seas there may not be any end to the assault. This isn't to say that Zunisha will go down pitifully after getting hit with a few cannonballs, I believe in its dying state it may attack Jack's fleet in order to allow the alliance to escape, and finally go out in a blaze of glory.
Regardless of whether or not Zunisha dies, I also want Jack to win because he ''needs'' the W. Ever since he appeared, I hoped for Jack not to return to Zou: he hasn't had any real victories so far, and for him to be defeated now especially by side characters would not get the Beasts Pirates, one of the top 4 crews in the world, off on a good foot. Instead, I want Jack to assert his dominance over Zou to show that the Straw Hats still have a ''long'' way to go before they can think of challenging a Yonko, one which scared the crap out of the man whom Luffy and Law BARELY beat. We can have a good lesson for our heroes, or something that will only make the story progression confusing and lead to even more shit power level debates.
Few things to highlight for you.
Jack is also injured and bounty is irrelevant
The strawhats aaliance are not that far away from crushing a Yonkou. Luffy, Law, Zoro are very powerful.
Zou will not be destroy.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
The same way he beat up a guy who was starving to death only moments before, with his fists.
.
An opponent that ate and got his strength back. Big difference.
@Kaido:
Figured I'd put this here: Here's what I think/hope will go down with Jack.
Luffy and Pekoms will be forced to head to Whole Cake Island because the rulers know Luffy can't battle Jack and rescue Sanji in such a short timespan, cuz there's no way he can easily defeat Jack. Also, the Straw Hats want the Sunny to head away in case the Beasts Pirates target it. Raizo may be sent with them as well in order to protect him.
there is no short amount of time really..actually the plan was to wait for pekoms to heal properly and then head to whole cake island..so there's literally no hurry..also,pekoms itself will NOT go away when the guy who hurt his people showed up again,and he doesn't care shit about sanji.
Now as for the battle, I hope Jack wins this conflict and kills Zunisha.
this would positively end the manga,so i don't think it will succeed
This may sound twisted, but hear me out. I've had it up to here with people talking/blubbering of Zoro soloing Jack. There's just no way that's gonna happen. I would expect there to be a pretty big discrepancy between a 300 million guy and a 1 billion guy. Also, Jack fought Fujitora and survived, while Zoro himself got punked by the admiral. It's a little tenuous reasoning, I know, but I'm also drawing on common sense here.
you are talking bounties
never talk bounties,they are not merely a strenght indicator,but a threat one.
The minks will put up a fight, of course, but in their injured states they will likely be much weaker, even Inuarashi and Nekomamushi. The only unknown variable is Law, who could probably do some stuff to Jack, but I won't go too far into speculating the results of that.
In the end, I believe Jack will overpower the pirate-mink-samurai alliance and kill Zunisha. Zunisha is hardly at its prime, Luffy questioned in 802 how alive it even was. The fact that Zou is home to allies of anti-Kaido warriors and that it has a Road Poneglyph paints a big target on its back, and as long as the Beasts Pirates are actively ruling the seas there may not be any end to the assault. This isn't to say that Zunisha will go down pitifully after getting hit with a few cannonballs, I believe in its dying state it may attack Jack's fleet in order to allow the alliance to escape, and finally go out in a blaze of glory.
the minks doesn't even seem to have ships,how do you suppose they escape from the elephant?
and where an entire nation would go after that?
they can't go to battle directly,they need weapons,supply..basically everything
Regardless of whether or not Zunisha dies, I also want Jack to win because he ''needs'' the W. Ever since he appeared, I hoped for Jack not to return to Zou: he hasn't had any real victories so far, and for him to be defeated now especially by side characters would not get the Beasts Pirates, one of the top 4 crews in the world, off on a good foot. Instead, I want Jack to assert his dominance over Zou to show that the Straw Hats still have a ''long'' way to go before they can think of challenging a Yonko, one which scared the crap out of the man whom Luffy and Law BARELY beat. We can have a good lesson for our heroes, or something that will only make the story progression confusing and lead to even more shit power level debates.
against the minks he pretty much won ,yeah he used caesar's weapon,but it was also th guy who fought for 8 days straight while nekomamushi e inuarashi were taking turns..i would say jack has already looked plenty strong.
@Kaido:
Figured I'd put this here: Here's what I think/hope will go down with Jack.
Luffy and Pekoms will be forced to head to Whole Cake Island because the rulers know Luffy can't battle Jack and rescue Sanji in such a short timespan, cuz there's no way he can easily defeat Jack. Also, the Straw Hats want the Sunny to head away in case the Beasts Pirates target it. Raizo may be sent with them as well in order to protect him.
Now as for the battle, I hope Jack wins this conflict and kills Zunisha. This may sound twisted, but hear me out. I've had it up to here with people talking/blubbering of Zoro soloing Jack. There's just no way that's gonna happen. I would expect there to be a pretty big discrepancy between a 300 million guy and a 1 billion guy. Also, Jack fought Fujitora and survived, while Zoro himself got punked by the admiral. It's a little tenuous reasoning, I know, but I'm also drawing on common sense here.
The minks will put up a fight, of course, but in their injured states they will likely be much weaker, even Inuarashi and Nekomamushi. The only unknown variable is Law, who could probably do some stuff to Jack, but I won't go too far into speculating the results of that.
In the end, I believe Jack will overpower the pirate-mink-samurai alliance and kill Zunisha. Zunisha is hardly at its prime, Luffy questioned in 802 how alive it even was. The fact that Zou is home to allies of anti-Kaido warriors and that it has a Road Poneglyph paints a big target on its back, and as long as the Beasts Pirates are actively ruling the seas there may not be any end to the assault. This isn't to say that Zunisha will go down pitifully after getting hit with a few cannonballs, I believe in its dying state it may attack Jack's fleet in order to allow the alliance to escape, and finally go out in a blaze of glory.
Regardless of whether or not Zunisha dies, I also want Jack to win because he ''needs'' the W. Ever since he appeared, I hoped for Jack not to return to Zou: he hasn't had any real victories so far, and for him to be defeated now especially by side characters would not get the Beasts Pirates, one of the top 4 crews in the world, off on a good foot. Instead, I want Jack to assert his dominance over Zou to show that the Straw Hats still have a ''long'' way to go before they can think of challenging a Yonko, one which scared the crap out of the man whom Luffy and Law BARELY beat. We can have a good lesson for our heroes, or something that will only make the story progression confusing and lead to even more shit power level debates.
Jack fighting fujitora is filler(let alone fujitora, Sengoku and Otsuru)for all we know he could have fought Maynard solo, or Bastille solo, or both as a duo. but considering that only jack and his ship is battered, none of his surbordinates are even bruised, could mean he fought no one, and this was naval with some meteor showers.
Im astonished thou, why does Jack need to win? He is a bonafide warrior, he won the fight against minks, his epithet and words suggest he has always been a winner to the extreme, the leave no survivors behind, he only loss the objective of visiting Zou (Raizou) not the fight, from what was presented he has been on a winning streak till the navy encounter and even then he could have won his battles against lets say Maynard and Bastille, two ships were sunk, only to be battered by Fujitora's raining meteors(which he probably handled wirh his bare hand and body, unlike doffy and law which did not encounter physically or sabo whose body is fire on a whim), which could have created the environment which would leave the marines without the assurance of his death in addition to the storm happening at the same time.
Off-topic, but I'm going to have to save this picture!
I'm not really digging the fact Luffy is being giving a battle-worn arc villain twice in a row (DF Mingo and now Jack). If we're doing Luffy VS arc villain 1 on 1s, then I want a healthy Luffy VS a healthy whoever he is fighting. I'm tired of hearing excuses when Luffy wins.
Off-topic, but I'm going to have to save this picture!
I'm not really digging the fact Luffy is being giving a worn-out battle worn arc villain twice in a row (DF Mingo and now Jack). If we're doing Luffy VS arc villain 1 on 1s, then I want a healthy Luffy VS a healthy whoever he is fighting. I'm tired of hearing excuses when Luffy wins.
I wouldn't really qualify Doflamingo as a "worn out" villain, if I'm understanding your meaning correctly. The man had obscene endurance, yeah, but he Luffy, and Law started that fight relatively fresh. Every bit of damage Doffy took was a direct result of his battle with Law and Luffy. Doffy and Luffy were BOTH really badly worn by the end of the fight.
Jack, however, I'd agree with. He also appears to have ungodly stamina, but he's banged up pretty good thanks to what happened to him. Guess the clincher will be how good of a fight he puts up against the new alliance when everyone starts to throw down.
@Monkey:
The West was the world back then. By the end of the century pretty much almost literally.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
The Shogun is the leader of Wano. A native leader of Wano.
It's extremely unlikely he's a member of Kaidou's crew.
Native or not he is working with Kaido and I don't think they're partners, he's probably working under Kaido when they joined forces so there's still a possibility that he's part of the crew now and is a calamity.
Year of Sanji, let's go!
@Monkey:
where can i cash my "told you so" cheques about the late Tokugawa era being the basis of Wano and it's plot, anyone know where i can do that, I'd like to know as soon as possible, where to accomplish that
So, do you think the Hundred Beasts Pirates are some sort of really messed up version of the Shinsengumi? As in they were brought in to scare the local lords?
The first thing that went into my head when Jack said that he wanted to kill the elephant was CANNIBALISM
I wouldn't really qualify Doflamingo as a "worn out" villain, if I'm understanding your meaning correctly. The man had obscene endurance, yeah, but he Luffy, and Law started that fight relatively fresh. Every bit of damage Doffy took was a direct result of his battle with Law and Luffy. Doffy and Luffy were BOTH really badly worn by the end of the fight.
Jack, however, I'd agree with. He also appears to have ungodly stamina, but he's banged up pretty good thanks to what happened to him. Guess the clincher will be how good of a fight he puts up against the new alliance when everyone starts to throw down.
Doffy fought Law twice with minimal-moderate damage the 2nd time before he and Luffy really got started throwing down. I guess Doffy didnt get hurt but he wasnt full strength.
Doffy fought Law twice with minimal-moderate damage the 2nd time before he and Luffy really got started throwing down. I guess Doffy didnt get hurt but he wasnt full strength.
Flamingo and Law never fought fairly so we don't know how Law measured up to Mingo. The first time Mingo teamed up with Tora and wiped the floor with Law. After that Law was on his death bed the entire arc. For all we know Law could have taken Mingo out by himself.
Doffy fought Law twice with minimal-moderate damage the 2nd time before he and Luffy really got started throwing down. I guess Doffy didnt get hurt but he wasnt full strength.
Luffy also had his scuffle with Bellamy, though for the record I'm considering the start of the fight to be the moment Law & Luffy came face to face with Doffy, Trebol, and Bellamy. Everyone was in more or less tip-top shape at that moment, with Law and Bellamy being in the worst condition of any of them. Everything after that is part of the fight and wearing down Doflamingo became the entire point from that moment onward.
If you're referring to combat prior to the actual start of this fight, Law easily took the worst of that and he was still up and about and raring to go while Luffy had been fighting in the arena and Doffy had his own earlier encounters. At worst, nobody but Trebol started that fight at 100% but at the same time nobody but Law & Bellamy had taken any damage they couldn't simply shrug off.
Aside of bringing down Doflamingo, don't you think there is another motive for Law to bring down Kaidou? and do you think it was just coincidence he asked Luffy about an alliance or did he thought about it beforehand?
Aside of bringing down Doflamingo, don't you think there is another motive for Law to bring down Kaidou? and do you think it was just coincidence he asked Luffy about an alliance or did he thought about it beforehand?
Law never intended to take down Kaido. Laws main and ONLY goal was to take down Mingo. Law already explained that he was just using Luffy at first because he knew he was strong, but then thought it must have been fate that brought Luffy to take down Mingo.
Native or not he is working with Kaido and I don't think they're partners, he's probably working under Kaido when they joined forces so there's still a possibility that he's part of the crew now and is a calamity.
Why don't you think they're partners? Shoguns are local rulers of Japans as a rule (Wano being a Japan).
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@S.C.:
So, do you think the Hundred Beasts Pirates are some sort of really messed up version of the Shinsengumi? As in they were brought in to scare the local lords?
I think Kaidou's troops are the Black Fleet.
If there's a Shinsengumi they would have to also be Wanoese.
@The:
Law never intended to take down Kaido. Laws main and ONLY goal was to take down Mingo. Law already explained that he was just using Luffy at first because he knew he was strong, but then thought it must have been fate that brought Luffy to take down Mingo.
So he lied when he asked Luffy and Nami in franky's body to bring down one of the four yonko?
I need to rewatch this moment when Law says he lied.
Because now they are involved with Kaidou on top of big mom, is it just out of luck or something that was settled (as the Straw's had Momo and Kaidou wanted him)
I wanna be sure somehow Law won't turn against Luffy at such a crucial moment.
@The:
Flamingo and Law never fought fairly so we don't know how Law measured up to Mingo. The first time Mingo teamed up with Tora and wiped the floor with Law. After that Law was on his death bed the entire arc. For all we know Law could have taken Mingo out by himself.
Eh, I don't know if Law could beat Mingo one on one. He was more or less decent strength for the first fight (Although he was getting jumped) and Dofla took him to suplex city. The second scuffle he showed more promise but again he was getting jumped this time by Dofla and Trebol (although Trebol mainly stayed back). I give Law a 40% of beating Doflamingo, mainly cus DF Mingo can tank for days.
Luffy also had his scuffle with Bellamy, though for the record I'm considering the start of the fight to be the moment Law & Luffy came face to face with Doffy, Trebol, and Bellamy. Everyone was in more or less tip-top shape at that moment, with Law and Bellamy being in the worst condition of any of them. Everything after that is part of the fight and wearing down Doflamingo became the entire point from that moment onward.
If you're referring to combat prior to the actual start of this fight, Law easily took the worst of that and he was still up and about and raring to go while Luffy had been fighting in the arena and Doffy had his own earlier encounters. At worst, nobody but Trebol started that fight at 100% but at the same time nobody but Law & Bellamy had taken any damage they couldn't simply shrug off.
I mean the starting point for me was Luffy VS Dofla's staredown, everyone took tons of damage beforehand so it may have evened out but Luffy had been fighting ALL DAY. So in that aspect after some reanalyzing, Luffy arguably took more damage than DF Mingo before the main fight after Law is almost curb-stomped. I'd just like to see Luffy or Law 100% VS DF Mingo 100% that'd have been cool…
Aside of bringing down Doflamingo, don't you think there is another motive for Law to bring down Kaidou? and do you think it was just coincidence he asked Luffy about an alliance or did he thought about it beforehand?
See, I think Law is going to eventually betray Luffy or at least break off. He's kind of annoyed by his steadfastness and the fact he wings it and never plans anything. He might not seeing as Luffy's crew is strong, but is it in the back of his mind?
Also I think when the time comes we'll be looking a a 70% Jack VS a more than likely 100%-90% Luffy when the time comes for the main event. Like I said earlier I hope something else happens but Oda may pull a "Jack is a fast healer" card and make the fight 100% VS 100%. I just want fair, balanced fights lol.
So he lied when he asked Luffy and Nami in franky's body to bring down one of the four yonko?
I need to rewatch this moment when Law says he lied.
Because now they are involved with Kaidou on top of big mom, is it just out of luck or something that was settled (as the Straw's had Momo and Kaidou wanted him)
I wanna be sure somehow Law won't turn against Luffy at such a crucial moment.
Yes, Law lied to Luffy and was using him the whole time. Sanji figured this out but in the end Luffy didn't care because Mingo turned out to be a total jerk and Luffys crew, along with what Luffy saw at the coleseum, convinced him to take down Mingo anyway. At this point i'm not entirely sure why Law is going along with Luffy. He did say that they needed to take down the Yonkou eventually and he might also feel grateful to Luffy and may at this point see him as a friend.
To above, i don't think Jack is going to be taken down any time soon. It'll be a clash and something will happen and he'll leave. Not expecting anything to come out of this.
So he lied when he asked Luffy and Nami in franky's body to bring down one of the four yonko?
I need to rewatch this moment when Law says he lied.
Because now they are involved with Kaidou on top of big mom, is it just out of luck or something that was settled (as the Straw's had Momo and Kaidou wanted him)
I wanna be sure somehow Law won't turn against Luffy at such a crucial moment.
Of course Law will keep his word, but his original plan was to go down in Dressrossa (stated in ch. 724, last page). But then: Alliance = friendship.
I hope Jack has a few powerful fighters in his crew.
Thanks for the answers guys!
So Law at first was kind of ready to blow up the alliance or betray Luffy after Mingo's defeated but couldn't cause he somehow get along with Luffy's crew "happy go lucky" mind ?
I don't see Law as an enemy, i mean i don't want him to stab back when there is an occasion, because you see Law have the world government tattoos on his hands/arms so is he somehow a hidden spy from the marines too? is he a true pirate? I kind of want him to be cool with Luffy and at some points end up Luffy's Friends Rival like Roger and Whitebeard were.
How does Caribou and his information about one of the ancient weapons play into all of this? The final battle between Kaidou and Luffy could still be at Fishman island and not Wano?
Thanks for the answers guys!
So Law at first was kind of ready to blow up the alliance or betray Luffy after Mingo's defeated but couldn't cause he somehow get along with Luffy's crew "happy go lucky" mind ?
I don't see Law as an enemy, i mean i don't want him to stab back when there is an occasion, because you see Law have the world government tattoos on his hands/arms so is he somehow a hidden spy from the marines too? is he a true pirate? I kind of want him to be cool with Luffy and at some points end up Luffy's Friends Rival like Roger and Whitebeard were.
I don't see Law as an enemy, either. Yes, he deceived Luffy about Kaido in order to get his help in ruining Doflamingo, but Luffy wasn't upset with him, and it actually seemed like finding out about Law's grudge just gave him one more good reason to kick Doffy's ass. Even if it wasn't his real goal from the beginning, I think Law actually would like to see Kaido's downfall. He seems interested in causing chaos in the New World (see end of chap. 724 and beginning of chapter 784 as examples), and he probably just never thought he'd get that far to begin with since he was expecting to die in Dressrosa. We also saw him take responsibility for getting Luffy involved with Mingo by planning to die with him if it came to that; their actions together are also what put them on the collision course with Kaido, so I believe Law will live up to that responsibility here, too. Plus, he committed himself with that fist-bump :ninja:. I think the moments with Law still trying to say "We're not friends" are supposed to be all the more comical because they really are friends and Law's just in denial about it in his awkward way (all while continuing to get caught up in Luffy's "pace" 
). I'm not gonna say, "There's no way Law would betray Luffy", but, as of right now at least, I see it as unlikely. Even if we ignore every subjective-but-implied reason like "They're friends" and "Law wouldn't do that because he's grateful to Luffy", etc, there are still plenty of logical reasons to stick with him. Law knows very well what the Straw Hats can do by now, and he's a smart guy, so I'm sure he fully realizes that being their ally friend is way smarter than being their enemy. If he betrays them and burns that bridge, there's no going back, and he'd be hard-pressed to get anyone's help (let alone theirs) if he needs it in the future. If he and Luffy do end their alliance eventually, the best way to do it would be on friendly terms, so they could potentially team up again in the future. I don't know if comparing them to Roger and Whitebeard is quite right–since Luffy is like Roger but not entirely the same, and Law doesn't seem to be much like Whitebeard at all--but I could see them being a different version. Maybe a friendlier variety, since Roger and Whitebeard did actually battle each other and weren't officially allies as far as we know, both of which are not the case for Luffy and Law.
Hidden:
I don't see Law as an enemy, either. Yes, he deceived Luffy about Kaido in order to get his help in ruining Doflamingo, but Luffy wasn't upset with him, and it actually seemed like finding out about Law's grudge just gave him one more good reason to kick Doffy's ass. Even if it wasn't his real goal from the beginning, I think Law actually would like to see Kaido's downfall. He seems interested in causing chaos in the New World (see end of chap. 724 and beginning of chapter 784 as examples), and he probably just never thought he'd get that far to begin with since he was expecting to die in Dressrosa. We also saw him take responsibility for getting Luffy involved with Mingo by planning to die with him if it came to that; their actions together are also what put them on the collision course with Kaido, so I believe Law will live up to that responsibility here, too. Plus, he committed himself with that fist-bump :ninja:. I think the moments with Law still trying to say "We're not friends" are supposed to be all the more comical because they really are friends and Law's just in denial about it in his awkward way (all while continuing to get caught up in Luffy's "pace"
friendally is way smarter than being their enemy. If he betrays them and burns that bridge, there's no going back, and he'd be hard-pressed to get anyone's help (let alone theirs) if he needs it in the future. If he and Luffy do end their alliance eventually, the best way to do it would be on friendly terms, so they could potentially team up again in the future. I don't know if comparing them to Roger and Whitebeard is quite right–since Luffy is like Roger but not entirely the same, and Law doesn't seem to be much like Whitebeard at all--but I could see them being a different version. Maybe a friendlier variety, since Roger and Whitebeard did actually battle each other and weren't officially allies as far as we know, both of which are not the case for Luffy and Law.
I am rewatching dressrosa now, and this episode of Law and Dofla on the bridge is clear, Law was living up to this day to get revenge, and even later indeed he wanted to die for that purpose, and even if there is still some shadows about Law's past which i hope we can see, i am seeing Law as an ally and his wtf faces are really fun so i don't mind, plus Law having Luffy as an ally is a plus for Law but also for Luffy so it's definitely something to keep it up for the future!
Since now Law doesn't seems to let down the minks, even if he is acting like he don't want, he will not give up on his Bepo's family.
Well Whitebeard lived up to have a family, Law lived up to revenge the person that he considered as family, unless he is interest in the one piece, Law suits this place as Luffy rival but staying friendly in their own way.
I also thought about the moment Kaidou attempt suicide, when can it be placed in the timeline? seems like he was on a sky island at this time around and then there is Kid and co that just find themselves in front of him, this is important to take this in consideration cause if Kid and co attack Kaidou, will Kaidou be at Wano?
That means in this case Luffy have time to go to Big Mom's party to do what he have to do.
i also think that if there is any confrontation with Jack, this one will be interrupted.
If Kaido really wants to kill himself why doesn't he just jump into the ocean….
I don't understand all the hate for the idea of Momo possibly becoming next nakama, he is allready showing charachter development he has an interesting chemistry with Luffy, a funny gag with how the girls don't realize he's a mini pervert, and seems to fit all of the criteria ( is unique , has a ton of fighting potential, a bad ass devil fruit and a huge goal.) I think we've seen the end of his whiny side for the most part and I just find him a way better fit as a SH than most characters we've met. For those that say Momo can't because he wants to become Shogun of Wano I find that to be a weak argument because he basically just wants to protect Wano and the best way to do that is to grow stronger and take down the evil forces that are currently and will continually threaten Wano down the road so I don't see the problem. I'm not saying it's gong to happen or not I'm just wondering why almost every other chapter thread there is atleast 1 comment about how shitty it would be if Momo joined the crew
If Kaido really wants to kill himself why doesn't he just jump into the ocean….
Because he wants to die in a blaze of glory. That would be too simple of a death.
im intrigued with who will oppose X Drake. His real life counterpart was a privateer so might take that up after kaido falls for a while. But if there are Drake, Jack and his fleet, the two other calamities there probable fleets, shogun, other prominent subordinates and allies, when you remove Sanji,Zoro, Law, possibly jimbei, if Jack don't fall at Zou there might be a problem, but what if there are prominent powerful allies as accomplished and capable as the likes of Jimbei not yet introduced? I suspect the samurai will fight with other samurai and lords under and loyal to the shogun : they should be fairly tough opponents.
im intrigued with who will oppose X Drake. His real life counterpart was a privateer so might take that up after kaido falls for a while. But if there are Drake, Jack and his fleet, the two other calamities there probable fleets, shogun, other prominent subordinates and allies, when you remove Sanji,Zoro, Law, possibly jimbei, if Jack don't fall at Zou there might be a problem, but what if there are prominent powerful allies as accomplished and capable as the likes of Jimbei not yet introduced? I suspect the samurai will fight with other samurai and lords under and loyal to the shogun : they should be fairly tough opponents.
Law would be the most probable candidate, considering Drake is the third closest Supernova that has a history with him.
Jack's death was reported several days ago according to Wanda, and he's had all those days to rest and regain his ungodly stamina, so I don't think fatigue will be a factor here. We've yet to see the limits of Jack's stamina, and his previous two battles happened weeks ago.
Also, bounties are not useless when comparing two characters. The World Government knows full well what Zoro can do, so the fact that his bounty is less than a third that of Jack's is kind of telling that there is a gap between them right now.
Spoiler:
@Kaido:
Also, bounties are not useless when comparing two characters. The World Government knows full well what Zoro can do, so the fact that his bounty is less than a third that of Jack's is kind of telling that there is a gap between them right now.
Not necessarily. They saw Zoro pull off a fantastic stunt against an opponent with an outrageous ability who didn't push Zoro to his limits. Now he has what a 320 million berry bounty? Both Zoro and Sanji are MUCH stronger than 400 million pre-time skip Luffy. What took Luffy going all out immediately(plus the entire crew) at 300 million took post time skip Sanji and Zoro 1 strike each. There are plenty of factors which go into why characters get their numbers.
@Kaido:
Also, bounties are not useless when comparing two characters. The World Government knows full well what Zoro can do, so the fact that his bounty is less than a third that of Jack's is kind of telling that there is a gap between them right now.
Usopp is stronger than Sanji, Franky and Robin ?
And 8 year old Robin was apparently stronger than East Blue Luffy and all of the Straw Hats.
Bounty is a measure of threat level, not power. Power can play a deciding factor in that threat, but the number itself is not a "power level".
If Kaido really wants to kill himself why doesn't he just jump into the ocean….
Besides what Galaxy said, I also want to bring up a theory I've heard that I'm pretty fond of myself. Kaidou could've jumped into the ocean, but it might still not be enough to kill him because he's got Fishman blood in him (as well as the blood of several other species, making him some sort of chimaera and would also explain his moniker of Strongest Beast).
He might not even have a Devil Fruit.
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@Bond:
Besides what Galaxy said, I also want to bring up a theory I've heard that I'm pretty fond of myself. Kaidou could've jumped into the ocean, but it might still not be enough to kill him because he's got Fishman blood in him (as well as the blood of several other species, making him some sort of chimaera and would also explain his moniker of Strongest Beast).
He might not even have a Devil Fruit.
That is interesting. Is there anything else the theory entails?
Kaido having at least Fishmen, Minkmen, and Giant blood would put him in another stratosphere in threat level.
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