Worst Generation's alliances/enemy theories

BlueRingHyozo

I am making this topic to discuss/clarify what we know about the "Worst generation" in the new world. It seems to me that there has been a lot of moving parts when it comes to the Super Nova's and the Yonkou after the two year time skip.

–-----------------------------------------------------
Here is what I have so far:

Luffy/Zoro/Law: Currently have an alliance. Luffy is both at odds with Kaido and Big Mom. Has Shanks support (that we know of right now).

Kidd: Presumed to be captured by Kaido. Killer: Unkown Hawkins: Unkown Apoo: Currently allied with Kaido

X Drake: Currently part of the Beast Pirates under Kaido's control.

Capone Bege: Currently under Big Mom and the Big Mom Pirates.

Jewelry Bonny: Whereabouts and allegiance unknown
Urouge: Allegiance unknown. Has met Kaido (or at least saw him)
Blackbeard: Is now a Yonko

Here is a chart (translation from OJ):

!
! > Kaido and Doflamingo had business dealings.
Law and Doflamingo are connected by fate.
Law/Luffy crushed Doflamingo.
Law/Luffy targeting Kaido.
Drake is under the umbrella (?) of Kaido. (Note the question mark).
Luffy has respect/promise towards Shanks.
Luffy and Big Mom are antagonistic towards each other.
Capone is under the umbrella of Big Mom.
Kid/Apoo/Hawkins targeting Shanks.
Kid/Apoo/Hawkins battled/at war/hostile towards Kaido.
Weevil targeting Blackbeard.
Kuzan collaborating with Blackbeard? (Note the question mark).
Kuzan and Sakazuki are antagonistic towards each other.
Sakazuki hunting/searching for Bonney.
Blackbeard heading to Rev. HQ? (Note the question mark)
! .
–---------------------------------------------------

So any theories or discussions are welcome here!

BellisarioFaith

This is a good idea! A few other things I thought of:

The last time we saw the KHA alliance, Kaido landed right in front of them; the results of this confrontation (if there even was one, and Kaido didn't just ignore them) are currently unknown.
Bonney was captured by Blackbeard, then captured by Akainu, then somehow escaped, and it's unknown if she's on her own or if she still has her crew as well.
Members of the StrawHeart Alliance (specifically, the Curlyhats) have now come into direct conflict with Bege and his Firetank pirates.

Now, speculation based on all we know so far:
So, from what we've seen, the only Worst Generation members who seem to be truly neutral are Bonney and Urouge. Bonney did sound pleased or at least impressed by the StrawHearts' victory against Doflamingo, though.

Also, I'd be interested in seeing Kid cross paths with Luffy and Law at some point. He did say he wanted to meet them again in the New World, and while he mentioned that he "won't show any mercy" the next time he meets Luffy, he seemed downright happy to find out that he was finally back in action and also appeared to be impressed by them beating Doflamingo. Additionally, it seems like the KHA alliance doesn't have any interest in clashing with the StrawHearts, since one of them mentioned that it was a good thing that they weren't going after the same Emperor so they wouldn't waste efforts fighting each other. For now, I'd guess the only other Supernovas that Luffy and co are in danger of clashing with anytime soon are Bege again (since he took Sanji and is working for Big Mom) and Drake (since he's working for Kaido).

Chrior

This is a good thread, but it would be better if you could post a scan that was revealed a few weeks ago that showed all of these relations with pictures and arrows. It was in some chapter discussion thread. Does anyone remember?

Galaxy 9000

@Chrior:

This is a good thread, but it would be better if you could post a scan that was revealed a few weeks ago that showed all of these relations with pictures and arrows. It was in some chapter discussion thread. Does anyone remember?

!

BellisarioFaith

Ooh, that's sweet! Though, since most of us can't read it, it's still handy to have the written descriptions as well. Can't wait till the English version of that comes out.

herpdat

I posted this when the image first came out, but here's a rough translation of the arrow links:

Kaido and Doflamingo had business dealings.
Law and Doflamingo are connected by fate.
Law/Luffy crushed Doflamingo.
Law/Luffy targeting Kaido.
Drake is under the umbrella (?) of Kaido. (Note the question mark).
Luffy has respect/promise towards Shanks.
Luffy and Big Mom are antagonistic towards each other.
Capone is under the umbrella of Big Mom.
Kid/Apoo/Hawkins targeting Shanks.
Kid/Apoo/Hawkins battled/at war/hostile towards Kaido.
Weevil targeting Blackbeard.
Kuzan collaborating with Blackbeard? (Note the question mark).
Kuzan and Sakazuki are antagonistic towards each other.
Sakazuki hunting/searching for Bonney.
Blackbeard heading to Rev. HQ? (Note the question mark).

Jabberwok

My impression of the Worst Generation, or at least the Supernovas, is that they all recognize they benefit from upheaval in the New World as a way of carving out their own niches. More confusion means more openings to take advantage of and the split attention of those who might be targeting them. They're rivals, but they're also often de facto allies on #TeamChaos. I think Bege is the only one who has never shown a positive interaction with another Worst Generation member.

As far as approving of Luffy's defeat of Doflamingo, Kid, Bonney, and probably Uruoge all seem to dislike the current world order and are in favor of change. Additionally, Drake is either disillusioned, undercover, or both and probably supports the downfall of Doflamingo and his Underworld brokering.

Chrior

Thanks to Galazy 9000 and herpdat! The image and rough translation could be added to the opening post, BlueRingHyozo

@Jabberwok, I also feel the same about Drake. The guy knew about Dofla and his deals since he was a kid and he murdered his father. I'm really interested in learning more about his past: why he left the Marines and why he joined Kaido.

BellisarioFaith

@herpdat:

I posted this when the image first came out, but here's a rough translation of the arrow links:

Sweet, thanks! Has some of the same stuff we thought of, but also some new things. So I guess this confirms that the KHA alliance did actually end up fighting Kaido? Can't wait to find out what happened with that.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@Jabberwok:

My impression of the Worst Generation, or at least the Supernovas, is that they all recognize they benefit from upheaval in the New World as a way of carving out their own niches. More confusion means more openings to take advantage of and the split attention of those who might be targeting them. They're rivals, but they're also often de facto allies on #TeamChaos. I think Bege is the only one who has never shown a positive interaction with another Worst Generation member.

As far as approving of Luffy's defeat of Doflamingo, Kid, Bonney, and probably Uruoge all seem to dislike the current world order and are in favor of change. Additionally, Drake is either disillusioned, undercover, or both and probably supports the downfall of Doflamingo and his Underworld brokering.

Team Chaos. I like it. I wonder how the Revolutionaries fit in with it. They definitely don't like the current world order either, but it's hard to tell whether the type of chaos they're after is the same type that these crazy, ambitious pirates are causing all over the New World. I hope they get more screentime sooner rather than later; even though we saw a few of them in Dressrosa, we didn't see very much Revolution-esque stuff from them.

jazzflower92

Not to mention the the fact that Luffy is already has bad blood with Blackbeard who is indirectly responsible for killing his brother.

Chrior

Courtesy of my free time. Someday maybe I will translate the text, but for now, I leave this here

!

Tell me if you find any mistake or something!

Jabberwok

@jazzflower92:

Not to mention the the fact that Luffy is already has bad blood with Blackbeard who is indirectly responsible for killing his brother.

That got me thinking, Kid and Luffy are both at odds with three of the Yonkou. Luffy's fourth is Shanks, whome he sees as a hero and role model. Perhaps Kid has a comparable relationship with Blackbeard, like he was a mentor or influence or something?

Green-Hair 0

I think Jewelry Bonny is gunna pop out of nowhere and do something big. I still wonder how she got away from Akainu….

Kaptayn

Common theory surrounding Bonney is that her power keeps the members of the Gorousei alive, thus being very important to the WG.

uniaka ikuzakas

I'm going to say that I go with the theory that Bonney is Big mom's daughter, then it will Big mom vs Luffy, Capone(betray), Bonney because she doesn't like her mother. Sanji could give a hand in there too( hope that didn't sound wrong).

BlueRingHyozo

@Chrior:

This is a good thread, but it would be better if you could post a scan that was revealed a few weeks ago that showed all of these relations with pictures and arrows. It was in some chapter discussion thread. Does anyone remember?

I added the image and rough translation to the original post. Thanks for the input!

jazzflower92

I am kind of not on board with the theory that Bonney is Big Mam's daughter. She already has her own last name, so if she was Big Mam's daughter she would have been Charlotte Bonney instead of Jewelry Bonney.

Chrior

@BlueRingHyozo:

I added the image and rough translation to the original post. Thanks for the input!

You could put the half translated chart that I posted in the thread, if you'd like. At least I could see my work have some use

Katzztar

About X Drake

It's been a long time ago for us readers, but when they were first on SA and encountered Kizaru, he something to the effect that X Drake defected to see how the other side lives. BUT we see in the flashback with Corazon that as a kid Drake was part of a pirate crew so he would already know about pirate life… wouldn't he?

Well consider he was about oh 10 yrs old, he may not know much of culture ect, as his dad didn't seem the most considerate of guys. But that really doesn't matter as much as the statement seems to imply that the Marines didn't know about his past as a young pirate.

G8trH8tr

@Katzztar:

About X Drake

It's been a long time ago for us readers, but when they were first on SA and encountered Kizaru, he something to the effect that X Drake defected to see how the other side lives. BUT we see in the flashback with Corazon that as a kid Drake was part of a pirate crew so he would already know about pirate life… wouldn't he?

Well consider he was about oh 10 yrs old, he may not know much of culture ect, as his dad didn't seem the most considerate of guys. But that really doesn't matter as much as the statement seems to imply that the Marines didn't know about his past as a young pirate.

Good point. Adds strength to the deep cover theory doesn't it? That easily makes the most sense considering the marines took care of X-Drake after his dad was murdered by Doffy.

Jesus, since I'm sure Kizaru knew, as a marine admiral he would have that info, he really beat X-Drake hard. Deep cover is no joke haha.

Johnny B. Decent

@Katzztar:

About X Drake

It's been a long time ago for us readers, but when they were first on SA and encountered Kizaru, he something to the effect that X Drake defected to see how the other side lives. BUT we see in the flashback with Corazon that as a kid Drake was part of a pirate crew so he would already know about pirate life… wouldn't he?

Well consider he was about oh 10 yrs old, he may not know much of culture ect, as his dad didn't seem the most considerate of guys. But that really doesn't matter as much as the statement seems to imply that the Marines didn't know about his past as a young pirate.

Keep in mind this is the same guy who accidentally blew up a massive tree and mixes up his Den Den's.

Riccardo

@jazzflower92:

I am kind of not on board with the theory that Bonney is Big Mam's daughter. She already has her own last name, so if she was Big Mam's daughter she would have been Charlotte Bonney instead of Jewelry Bonney.

You have the same last name as your mother's birth name?

BellisarioFaith

@Riccardo:

You have the same last name as your mother's birth name?

As weird as it sounds, I think "Charlotte" actually is Big Mom's family name. It's really strange, because we've seen quite a few names that sound and look like they're listed the Western way, [given name + surname], such as Charlotte Linlin, Edward Newgate, Marshall D. Teach, Rob Lucci, Ben Beckman, and Catarina Devon. But then the existence of "Edward Weevil" (the supposed-son of Edward Newgate) and Charlotte Pudding (a daughter of Big Mom and/or the Charlotte family) seems to contradict this and imply that all names in the One Piece world are listed as [surname + given name], no matter how odd that makes them.

Riccardo

@BellisarioFaith:

As weird as it sounds, I think "Charlotte" actually is Big Mom's family name. It's really strange, because we've seen quite a few names that sound and look like they're listed the Western way, [given name + surname], such as Charlotte Linlin, Edward Newgate, Marshall D. Teach, Rob Lucci, Ben Beckman, and Catarina Devon. But then the existence of "Edward Weevil" (the supposed-son of Edward Newgate) and Charlotte Pudding (a daughter of Big Mom and/or the Charlotte family) seems to contradict this and imply that all names in the One Piece world are listed as [surname + given name], no matter how odd that makes them.

I understand that, and that wasn't my point.

I was saying Jewelry Bonney can easily be Big Mom's daughter despite the different last name (Jewelry instead of Charlotte). My point was Jewelry can be Bonney's father's last name.

BellisarioFaith

@Riccardo:

I understand that, and that wasn't my point.

I was saying Jewelry Bonney can easily be Big Mom's daughter despite the different last name (Jewelry instead of Charlotte). My point was Jewelry can be Bonney's father's last name.

Ohh, sorry, gotcha. That being said, I'm also not sure whether or not I buy into the theory. I'm not convinced, but I'm not _un_convinced, either, haha.

BellisarioFaith

Re-reading some of the recent chapters got me thinking: do you guys think any of the Supernovas/Worst Generation are going to die at some point? I know this is One Piece we're talking about, but hey, Oda actually did kill Ace and Whitebeard, and probably Vergo and Monet as well, so it's more fair game now.

For one thing, I hope Blackbeard dies at the end of the series after Luffy defeats him; he just seems way too dangerous and "final boss"-like to just be defeated and redeemed. Plus, after everything he's done, he deserves it, especially since it's been shown that he's afraid of death contrary to the way a true D shouldn't be.

On the subject of "D": as much as I don't want it to happen, I have a feeling that Law is eventually going to die, too. I hope I'm wrong, but it would make sense. Like others have said in different places on this forum, the revelation that the Op Op Fruit has an "immortality surgery" seems like way too much of a Chekhov's gun to not come back again. It would also be a natural way to remove another D from becoming Luffy's competition for Pirate King, since he already has that conflict with Blackbeard. It's true that we don't really know if Law actually wants to be Pirate King or not, but since he is a D, I'm sure he's at least considered it. Whitebeard's words near the end of the war about "the man Roger was waiting for" seem to imply that someone else who carries the Will of D is the successor Roger hoped for, which would give Law as much of a natural claim to the title as Luffy. Hell, if he dies, he could even express approval of his "D brother" Luffy becoming Pirate King or something like that.

There's also the fact that, like Whitebeard and Ace, Law has now achieved the main goal in his life. Even though Ace died young, he managed to get the answer to the one thing he always wanted to know in life: if he should have been born. Whitebeard wanted a family, and up to his dying breath, he had one (plus, he was already dying anyway). Law's life goal was to take down Doflamingo in order to avenge Rocinante, which he's now done thanks to Luffy; now, if he dies, he also will have died after achieving what he wanted most, so he could also die with no regrets. Like I said, I hope I'm wrong, and lots of major shit would have to go down first for that to happen, but out of the Eleven Supernovas, he's the one I can most picture dying.

I could guess that somebody from the KHA alliance will die as well since they were last seen fighting Kaido, but I highly doubt Oda would kill any of them offscreen, so I'm assuming they'll live. Maybe Kid will die much later in the series after Luffy has already fought and defeated him; I can't see Luffy killing him, but someone else might.

LL-Ai

I have my suspicions that 'Jewelry Bonney' isn't her real name. There's also how Oda gave Bonney an approxiamte age in the SBS as opposed to her real one. And then there's the question of how she managed to get away from the pirate intolerent Akainu…

I do think there's a possibility that she's a daughter of Big Mom though. The only trait they seem to share is the fact that they both eat a lot, although their tastes differ.

--- Update From New Post Merge ---

@BellisarioFaith:

On the subject of "D": as much as I don't want it to happen, I have a feeling that Law is eventually going to die, too. I hope I'm wrong, but it would make sense. Like others have said in different places on this forum, the revelation that the Op Op Fruit has an "immortality surgery" seems like way too much of a Chekhov's gun to not come back again. It would also be a natural way to remove another D from becoming Luffy's competition for Pirate King, since he already has that conflict with Blackbeard. It's true that we don't really know if Law actually wants to be Pirate King or not, but since he is a D, I'm sure he's at least considered it. Whitebeard's words near the end of the war about "the man Roger was waiting for" seem to imply that someone else who carries the Will of D is the successor Roger hoped for, which would give Law as much of a natural claim to the title as Luffy. Hell, if he dies, he could even express approval of his "D brother" Luffy becoming Pirate King or something like that. Like I said, I hope I'm wrong, and lots of major shit would have to go down first for that to happen, but out of the Eleven Supernovas, he's the one I can most picture dying.

:sad: I do think Law is probably going to die as well, and I imagine it'd be because he'll be forced to use the immortality surgery on someone through some kind of mind control, possibly. Though there is a chance it could be a self sacrifice on his part (Enemy blow? Overextending his Room abilities?). We've all seen how the guy tends to put other peoples lives (His crew and allies) and ideals (Corazon) before his own life…

Putting Doflamingo in jail seems to have put an end to the biggest motivation Law had for doing anything, and honestly it's hard to see him outside a supporting role at this point, unless he manages to find himself a new cause. There's the escaped royalty of Flevance, so maybe he could still pursue some kind of justice for his dead hometown, but it's more likely to be a coincidental meeting rather than him seeking them out.

He seems to be looking towards Luffy as a possible template for how he should continue in life as a D, so I wonder if he's already come to some conclusion of his own by the time Luffy talks to him next in Zou or if he'll just continue helping them out to fight Kaidou like he promised.

Brotato

@Katzztar:

Well consider he was about oh 10 yrs old, he may not know much of culture ect, as his dad didn't seem the most considerate of guys. But that really doesn't matter as much as the statement seems to imply that the Marines didn't know about his past as a young pirate.

Weird fact. X Drake is currently 33 years old in the current story, the flashback took place 13 years ago, which would mean Drake was actually 19-20 years old at that time!

@BellisarioFaith:

As weird as it sounds, I think "Charlotte" actually is Big Mom's family name. It's really strange, because we've seen quite a few names that sound and look like they're listed the Western way, [given name + surname], such as Charlotte Linlin, Edward Newgate, Marshall D. Teach, Rob Lucci, Ben Beckman, and Catarina Devon. But then the existence of "Edward Weevil" (the supposed-son of Edward Newgate) and Charlotte Pudding (a daughter of Big Mom and/or the Charlotte family) seems to contradict this and imply that all names in the One Piece world are listed as [surname + given name], no matter how odd that makes them.

This drives me crazy because at the same time we have characters like the Funk Brothers which contradict the contradiction. ¯_(ಠ_ಠ)_/¯

Katzztar

huh.. so I could be wrong there. Your math sounds right but the way he was shown he looked real young
I stand corrected on Drake's age, thanks for the info

BellisarioFaith

I noticed that, too. I just assumed at the time that it was a typo, or that Oda wasn't paying attention when he gave Drake's age in the SBS, because it's way too weird for the Child Drake we saw from Law's flashback to have been 19. He should have been able to get away from his abusive dad on his own in that case. He also must have had a massive growth spurt later…in his 20's?

Brotato

@BellisarioFaith:

I noticed that, too. I just assumed at the time that it was a typo, or that Oda wasn't paying attention when he gave Drake's age in the SBS, because it's way too weird for the Child Drake we saw from Law's flashback to have been 19. He should have been able to get away from his abusive dad on his own in that case. He also must have had a massive growth spurt later…in his 20's?

I don't think it's too farfetched, we've had plenty of young-looking older teens in the series. Conversely, Law would've been 13 when Corazon died and he looked <10. Also, in the flashback the Barrel pirates referred to Drake as being the strongest of their crew while still being a gigantic coward. He probably just had a nice growth spurt during his marine training… just look at Coby, they must be putting something in the food. ~

EvoWarrior5

What are you guys talking about? Drake was in the Corazon flashback? Deep cover theory? I really don't follow.

Chrior

@EvoWarrior5:

What are you guys talking about? Drake was in the Corazon flashback? Deep cover theory? I really don't follow.

Drake was the little kid "Dory", son of Diez Barrels, who ran away in Minion Island and ended up being rescued by the Marines and tricking Dolfamingo into thinking it was Law who had been rescued. I suppose the deep cover theory is that Drake is actually a Marine infiltrated into Kaido's crew in order to spy on them (not unlike Corazon).

EvoWarrior5

@Chrior:

Drake was the little kid "Dory", son of Diez Barrels, who ran away in Minion Island and ended up being rescued by the Marines and tricking Dolfamingo into thinking it was Law who had been rescued. I suppose the deep cover theory is that Drake is actually a Marine infiltrated into Kaido's crew in order to spy on them (not unlike Corazon).

Do you have a chapter link?

Chrior

@EvoWarrior5:

Do you have a chapter link?

Sure.

First time he appears, second time, where you can see the x scar on his chin, and the SBS of volume 78 has Oda answering that yes, X(Diez) Drake is the son of Diez Barrels (I know OP Wikia is not a good source, but it's the easiest one in this case). The X is read as Diez and is meant to be the roman numeral for 10, the spanish word for which is Diez. It was a clever way to erase his past link to a pirate when joining the Marines, I suppose, without letting go of it entirely.

EvoWarrior5

@Chrior:

Sure.

First time he appears, second time, where you can see the x scar on his chin, and the SBS of volume 78 has Oda answering that yes, X(Diez) Drake is the son of Diez Barrels (I know OP Wikia is not a good source, but it's the easiest one in this case). The X is read as Diez and is meant to be the roman numeral for 10, the spanish word for which is Diez. It was a clever way to erase his past link to a pirate when joining the Marines, I suppose, without letting go of it entirely.

Oh wow, that completely eluded me on both of my readings of Dressrosa. I don't feel all too stupid about it; this was before I started frequenting this forum again, and the scar escaped me as I don't always pay attention to details. Luckily I've got Greg to do some of that for me now with his column.

Anyways, thanks. That is good to know.

Chrior

Hehe, no problem! I only noticed it due to the surname thing, because I had noted before that the X had a weird pronunciation in the anime and found out about the Diez thing But yeah, coming to the forum helps one pick up A LOT of small details like this and get a better picture of things that one wouldn't get otherwise. Although some surprises may be foiled due to so much predicting going on here…

DooMinator

Blackbeard won't be killed or die at the end of OP… He'll kneel down before Luffy, accepting him as his leader (as the King of Pirates)... BB always had his own way of justice, as all important characters left. See the moment he told Luffy Sky island does exist, or as he told Burges not to lay a hand on Ace, cause he'd be no match. And him being a D, he'll bow his head, and Luffy will be the one forgiving.

I don't think any of the supernovas will die... They were built up to be the main actors on stage of the new generation, slowly taking over... WB is already gone, Shanks surely will, not to speak of BM and Kaidou... Several Shichibukai have already fallen and been replaced... WB said it himself, a new era is about to start. And none of the big players of this generation will be killed. Not gonna happen.

Razh

Don't see Blackbeard as someone who would ever give up. He'd more likely act defeated and try to stab Luffy in the back later.

BellisarioFaith

Yeah, after all the crap Blackbeard's pulled so far in his efforts to be Pirate King, I can't imagine him just standing aside for Luffy. For all his horrible traits, he does seem to really value the idea of dreams and fighting for them, so it wouldn't surprise me if he were willing to fight to the death for his dream of becoming Pirate King, like Luffy would.

As for the Supernovas…I do agree that they're all very important to the current generation, and if some of them do die, I think it'll be quite a bit later in the story. Still, the fact that many of them have goals that will put them in direct conflict with each other is going to make it hard for all of them to make it through to the end (not impossible, but very difficult). As Doflamingo pointed out, you've got the Four Emperors, the Seven Warlords of the Sea, the Eleven Supernovas, the Revolutionary Army, and the Navy all fighting each other...and many, many pirates fighting to find the One Piece. There can be only one Pirate King, and quite a few people are competing for that spot. I can't imagine that everyone else--Blackbeard, the other Supernovas, etc.--will just accept it and be okay with it if they can't achieve their lifelong goal because Luffy stands in their way. We already know that Luffy will fight anyone who interferes with his dream; why wouldn't the others? There are going to be more direct conflicts and battles in the New World between the big movers and shakers now that they're all getting closer to their goals, and it's not unrealistic at all to think that not everyone will survive those conflicts.

Helter Skelter

@DooMinator:

I don't think any of the supernovas will die… They were built up to be the main actors on stage of the new generation, slowly taking over... WB is already gone, Shanks surely will, not to speak of BM and Kaidou... Several Shichibukai have already fallen and been replaced... WB said it himself, a new era is about to start. And none of the big players of this generation will be killed. Not gonna happen.

I can see Eustass Kidd as an Emperor in a near future. For some reason I see him as the leader of the KHA alliance and I believe they will succeed against the Red Hair Pirates. Hawkins and Appoo would become Kidd's underlings.
People think they're gonna fight Kaidou but… I dunno. They ran into each other by accident. Why would they start fighting? They probably have a plan to take down Shanks' crew. They wouldn't start fighting Kaido on the spot. And maybe even Kaido himself had no interest in fighting. He has other things on his mind.

SherlockHolmes

@Helter:

I can see Eustass Kidd as an Emperor in a near future. For some reason I see him as the leader of the KHA alliance and I believe they will succeed against the Red Hair Pirates. Hawkins and Appoo would become Kidd's underlings.

I really can't see those two being his subordinates. But Kidd does seem to have manpower, a base and some kind of influence the others doesn't, or at least it was implied. I think Luffy, Buggy and Kidd are the ones with the biggest shot at gathering enough allies and territory to replace a Yonko.

mbaruh

Kaido beats Apoo and Hawkins while Kidd manages to escape. He later joins Luffy and Law against Kaido parallel to how they joined hands in Shabondy.
Any takers?

SherlockHolmes

@mbaruh:

Kaido beats Apoo and Hawkins while Kidd manages to escape. He later joins Luffy and Law against Kaido parallel to how they joined hands in Shabondy.
Any takers?

I'd be down with it but seems unfair with Apoo and Hawkins, unless they got a decent role to play later on.

BellisarioFaith

@mbaruh:

Kaido beats Apoo and Hawkins while Kidd manages to escape. He later joins Luffy and Law against Kaido parallel to how they joined hands in Shabondy.
Any takers?

That could be really interesting. Problem is, even if he was willing to ask to join them (which I'm not sure I can picture, since he definitely seems to see them as his two biggest rivals), I feel like neither of them would go for it, especially Law. From the very beginning, Law never seemed to like Kid very much, and was much nicer to Luffy (probably because they're both D's); I'm guessing he wouldn't trust Kid for a second. I'm not even sure about Luffy, either; at Sabaody, Luffy was pretty competitive with both of them, and very likely only changed his mind about and warmed up to Law because he knew that Law saved him at Marineford. Kid joining them would probably turn into another passive-aggressive competition like the one they had when they previously met.

Still, gotta say, it'd be pretty badass if that did happen.

mbaruh

@BellisarioFaith:

That could be really interesting. Problem is, even if he was willing to ask to join them (which I'm not sure I can picture, since he definitely seems to see them as his two biggest rivals), I feel like neither of them would go for it, especially Law. From the very beginning, Law never seemed to like Kid very much, and was much nicer to Luffy (probably because they're both D's); I'm guessing he wouldn't trust Kid for a second. I'm not even sure about Luffy, either; at Sabaody, Luffy was pretty competitive with both of them, and very likely only changed his mind about and warmed up to Law because he knew that Law saved him at Marineford. Kid joining them would probably turn into another passive-aggressive competition like the one they had when they previously met.

Still, gotta say, it'd be pretty badass if that did happen.

If it happened, I doubt anyone would be asking for permission for anything
It would happen naturally given the circumstances. Something like "We're going to beat Kaido" -"No I will!". And then they end up all going together.
Also, at first Law tried to manipulate Luffy, we all know how it ended.

BellisarioFaith

@mbaruh:

It would happen naturally given the circumstances. Something like "We're going to beat Kaido" -"No I will!". And then they end up all going together.

Assuming they don't all kill each other first, of course.

BellisarioFaith

I was thinking about it today, and just realized that we seemingly have no idea yet why the KHA Alliance chose to target Shanks. IIRC, prior to that reveal, most people seemed to think that their target was gonna end up being Big Mom, and as far as I can recall, I don't think there were any solid hints in the manga anywhere beforehand to suggest that Shanks was their target or that they even had anything against him at all. (If I'm wrong, please do correct me.) Anyone got any good theories? Some ideas I came up with:

Since Shanks is the "nicest" (relatively speaking) of the Emperors, they might think he's the "softest" as well, i.e. easiest to defeat and/or least likely to straight up kill them if they fail to defeat him and his crew. (I hope this isn't true, because I hope they're not stupid enough to take him that lightly.)
Could also be that they just don't like the way he does things; Shanks and his crew are fun-loving, relatively friendly pirates who party a lot. I have to imagine that he protects his "territories" out of the goodness of his heart (like Whitebeard did) rather than expecting something in return like Big Mom and Kaido do. Maybe they have some kind of problem with that and just want to take him down because they're opposed to his ideology. We know that Kid, at least, is much crueler than Shanks; jury's still out on just how cruel (if at all) Apoo and Hawkins are. This one's flimsy, I know, but there have been villains with pettier motives in the series before.
Or, conversely, since he stopped the entire freckin' Paramount War and/or because he's a former member of Roger's crew, they might see him as the most "badass", and thus they think that defeating him would get them the most fame/power/world impact.
They could have something personal against him that we don't know about.
Similarly, since (as far as we know) all three crews have been in the New World for two years straight, he may have clashed against one or more of them during that time and pissed them off.
Of course, it could be multiple different options; they don't all need to have the same reason for targeting him.
Or, I could be completely off and it could be a way more awesome theory.

Anyway, can't wait to find out. What do you guys think? (This is, of course, assuming they still want to go after Shanks after their fight with Kaido, if that actually happened.)

Katzztar

AS for Hawkins and cruelty, at first he seems to be against needless violence as seen when he stopped one of his crewmates from assaulting a waiter for spilling food on him back in SA. But then we see Brwonbeard. Lets remember he was already in bad shape when he arrived at PH and got paralyzed by the gas. Also Hawkins said that the doesn't like joking, didn't he? (back when he first encountered Brownbeard.)

I'd say that Hawkins & Apoo can be cruel but its only when the cruelty serves a purpose. Unlike Kidd that's cruel for the sake of being cruel.

And you've got some good points on the KHA alliance going after Shanks. Frankly I don't think they're stupid enough to go with #1, they watched the end of the Paramount War and saw Shanks there, so I'd think #3 has a lot to do with it but its gonna be multiple choices.

I'm gonna head over to the dumb predictions and state that the reason is that Kidd is the son that Shanks never knew about and he wants to make a name by taking out his father.:ninja:

RamistaR

To be fair Brownbeard isn't exactly an angel either.