@uniaka:
Big mom is likely the ''world's strongest women'' and shanks could be the world's strongest man after WB's death.
Strongest haki is more fit to shanks maybe, so Kaido is above them all.
@uniaka:
Big mom is likely the ''world's strongest women'' and shanks could be the world's strongest man after WB's death.
Strongest haki is more fit to shanks maybe, so Kaido is above them all.
If it turns out the electricity thing is a technique that can be taught, I'm hoping Chopper will learn it. Kung Fu Point Chopper with electric punches would be a pretty cool power boost for him.
Maybe it has to do with them being on an ancient elephant, I could see the reason why they have the power of electro is because of the static electricity emitted from the elephant.
Jack going against the Navy on the sea would be hard for him in his mammoth form? prolly ended up destroying his own ship loll
@Buggy:
Jack going against the Navy on the sea would be hard for him in his mammoth form? prolly ended up destroying his own ship loll
This is One Piece which runs on nonsensical logic and refuge in audacity.
Actually, he's probably onto something. I would not be surprised to learn Jack was defeated because he couldn't fight with his full-mammoth form due to space issues in that battle.
@S.C.:
Actually, he's probably onto something. I would not be surprised to learn Jack was defeated because he couldn't fight with his full-mammoth form due to space issues in that battle.
That hasn't stopped others from wrecking havoc.
That hasn't stopped others from wrecking havoc.
He sunk two ships, so obviously he did somewhat alright, but obviously charging on a ship is different then doing so on land. And of course, having to fight Isshou and Sengoku.
We already know Jack is hella careless and attack first ask questions later attitude so him losing because of his df could be it. Also, if Duke Inuarashi can handle Jack then Issho & Sengoku should have no problem. Maybe the only reason he destroyed those ships was due to him sneaking on the ships n transforming and doing 1 stomp lol
Actually, it says on this page that he is the "Gifters headliner". What does this make him if not one of them ? (sorry, I just saw someone else posted this already in the meantime)
Don’t worry about it, and thank you for telling me :)
@Seafarer33:
As far as I can tell, there is no more hard evidence to this as there would be to her harpy body being the result of Law's operations, or of Caesar' experimentations.
The problem is that I find the theory that she had her body remodeled at the hands of Law full of incongruities:
She was not exposed to a nerve gas, yet she had weird portions of her body modified: arms, feet, and loin. Even if we assume that it is due to the nerve gas, the nerve gas is known to affect the lower portion of the body entirely. That is, from the waist down. However, she only had her feet modified. Furthermore, this does not explain the arms since the gas does not paralyze whatsoever the victim’s arms. So it just makes zero sense to me from this aspect.
Let’s say she did not modify her body because of the nerve gas, but to gain the ability to fly, it suffices to just change her arms in order to gain that ability since it is a very efficient method of flying as was shown by the Marco & Robin. However, she had her feet and loin changed, which doesn’t make any sense. It’s like someone who had a bone fracture in his right forearm & instead of applying a splint or body cast to his right forearm, he applied it to all of his four limbs. It doesn’t make any sense.
When she was first introduced to us, she was on a ‘bird stand’.
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When she was both flying and sitting on the bird stand, she had her abdomen covered with feathers, and those feathers, on closer look, appear to be sprouting from her abdomen.
By the way, look at the bird stand; it's much clearer here.
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Now, let's talk about her tail: The tail is clearly is sprouting from her flesh.
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Now, if Smile fruits were able to be consumed together with devil fruits, and they had the transformation problem of not being able to reverse back, just as Momonosuke had the problem of not being able to consciously turn off his dragon transformation, it would explain everything: her entire appearance, the behaviour that is typical of birds(standing on a bird stand), and the feathers that were sprouting from her abdomen. All of it would fall into place and make perfect sense.
I am just aiming for the most reasonable explanation to that phenomenon, & this is the one I lean to.
@King:
http://www.mangapanda.com/one-piece/664/14
That's really the only evidence we need. Oda indirectly confirms that Monet is a byproduct of Law's ability through Usopp.
Your theories are well-written and all, but alas, we do have word of God backing up Law's operation.
Well, in that very panel you showed me, God’s word was also saying that Vegapunk was a ‘cruel man’(through Nami). Should we believe that as well? If not, what makes Usopp’s interpretation any better than Nami’s?
It was already shown to us that Usopp’s interpretation of events can be wrong:
He made similar (faulty) statements about Nami back at Cocoyashi Village: that she has been deceiving them & aiming to steal their money and ditch them.
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I’ve gotta tell you that that was a pretty cool evidence you provided there, but unfortunately, in that very same panel, Nami was making faulty assertions in regard to Vegapunk (Vegapunk is a cruel man).
@King:
Many characters have color schemes that are completely different from Oda's official ones, like Jora having green hair when she actually has yellow-orange hair.
Jora had yellow-orange hair in the coloured version.
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@King:
You're looking too much into a scene that was just to showcase the Dwarves struggling and having the product of their slave work being deemed useless.
In other words, the entire point of that is to show us that the dwarves are working hard and are being enslaved by Doflamingo’s goons. That’s all the more reason not to dedicate those pages about a defect in Smiles since all of that could have been done in 1/3 or ¼ of a page without introducing the concept of ‘incomplete Smiles’.
As a matter of fact, it was already done in 1/3 of a page.
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@King:
Those "incomplete" SMILEs are not even actual SMILEs. They probably don't give powers.
Probably, but not certainly. Because of this, it is entirely reasonable to think that they might give partial powers to the consumer(s).
@King:
This is supported by the line "Those haven't completely turned into SMILEs yet!", which means that there's no such thing as an incomplete SMILE.
Powermanga’s translation says that they haven’t completely turned into smiles, which could be rephrased as ‘they have incompletely turned into Smiles’.
It suffices that we refer to the complete Smiles as ‘Smiles’. However, we need an adjective to help us differentiate between the two Smile fruits because there are indeed two kinds of Smiles: those deemed useless and those deemed useful. You may use ‘failure’ as an adjective for the incomplete Smiles. Keep in mind that Vegapunk’s devil fruit was a ‘failure’ as well, and yet it gave Momonosuke the power to transform into a dragon.
@King:
Dude, she was willing to kill herself to protect Caesar. She is willing to do sacrifices in order to do her job, so yes, it's a believable scenario.
And why do you talk like she lost a lot by discarding her limbs? If anything, she adapted very well to them, being able to write and read with her wings.
All actions she takes in order to protect Caesar are to avoid being eliminated by Joker, as she herself stated to Luffy. So if she had to discard her arms and feet, it must be on Joker’s orders. In other words, she would have done so unwillingly. Otherwise(if Joker gave no such order), I don’t see why she’d go to such crazy lengths
@King:
If she was a SMILE user, why didn't she turn off her animal parts to do those things?
Transformation problem, typical of Smiles. We are bound to find transformation problems. Vegapunk’s devil fruit, which is most likely superior to Caesar’s Smile devil fruit, had transformation problems. Momonosuke could not consciously turn off his devil fruit transformation and since Caesar repeats with little (if any) creativity just what Vegapunk originally did, it is likely that a similar problem could be in Smiles. I don’t see how Caesar could fix those problems since he is intellectually inferior than Vegapunk, especially after he was banished by him from the science division four years ago. Ever since then, he has been cut off from new scientific information discovered by Vegapunk.
@King:
After all, according to you, she can turn on and off her "abdomen feathers", yet she is never seen turning off her bird limbs.
I think that it is all be part of the transformation problem. If the concept of the transformation problem had not been introduced to us in One Piece, I would have agreed with you.
@King:
(which, honestly, looks like just a fancy skirt to me. That skirt is not part of her tail either as her tail's feathers are huge and can be seen below her)
The problems that I have with the ‘skirt’ idea is this: First off, that thing was shown to us only three times according to what I could remember. If it had been a skirt, it must have been part of her Punk-Hazard appearance because there is no reason to wear it and discard it. Secondly, skirts do not extend all the way to a person’s ribs. Furthermore, there should have been signs indicating distance between the skirt and her skin in order to demonstrate that it is indeed worn by her. Last but not least, her skin colour was fading into those feathers and vice versa.
@King:
By the way, you gotta remember that Den Den Mushi do not work on the cold, so it makes sense for her to wear a fluffy skirt to keep the Den Den Mushi warm. This explains why the feather skirt was discarded once Monet returned from her scouting.
I don’t remember them being nonfunctional in the cold. Actually, I remember them being perfectly functional in the cold.
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@Ukimix:
I feel you.That's why I said, it's to write a horror spin off.
I appreciate this :) I will be honest with you, Ukimix: I have very severe doubts about the idea that she had her body modified by Law because of its prominent incongruities, which I have shown in my discussions with both King Cannon & Seafarer.
The theme for horror spin off was already created by the satyrs and centaurs. There is no need to add Monet with such prominent incongruities to the equation in order to strengthen that theme.
@Seafarer33:
D'oh, I had missed that answer. I guess, it would boil down to how the crisis is showcased. For example if we see once again the crew and everyone running away from an island-wide toxic gas cloud, then the core crisis would still be "evade big cloud" and I would find the situation redudant regardless of the actual effects of the gas or whatever gaz-related novelty Oda might try to introduce.
100% agree with you.
@Seafarer33:
If on the other hand the gas weapon only serves as a background threat to a different crisis processus, or if the crisis revolves around preventing its activation instead, then it might create interest and novelty that I enjoy.
That’s exactly what I had in mind, although, now that I remember it, it would be kind of similar to the bomb scenario that Crocodile used in Alabasta.
@Seafarer33:
As for a possible elephant-threatening plot device, I do agree that a weapon of mass destruction would be the most likely candidate considering the sheer size of Zushina. But then, maybe there can be a different sort of crisis. Most arcs so far involved an island-wide threat, but not all of those were about physically destroying the island and everyone on it (the civil war in Alabasta, for example).
While Alabsta had indeed a time limit revolving around the civil war, it had another disaster that threatens the life of everyone that was fighting: Crocodile put a bomb that could incinerate everyone on a 5km radius inside a cannon. Our heroes had to find the bomb before it launches and kills everyone in its blast radius.
@Kdom:
Did you read his post where he acknowledges his mistake ?
Thank you, Kdom, for you kind explanation. I appreciate that:happy:
I appreciate this :) I will be honest with you, Ukimix: I have very severe doubts about the idea that she had her body modified by Law because of its prominent incongruities, which I have shown in my discussions with both King Cannon & Seafarer.
The theme for horror spin off was already created by the satyrs and centaurs. There is no need to add Monet with such prominent incongruities to the equation in order to strengthen that theme.
I'll share my point of view about it: consider that the whole story can be told up to the very end (when Luffy finds the One Piece and revert the world order) with out revealing if Monet's body was modified by Law or by smile or … So, lets suppose that happens and we never read a word about Monet again in the future chapters: then what will you, King Canon and Seafarer do with the debate? To me all those explanations can be true. So maybe you'll just drink some bear and smile a about the debate since there'd be no way to solve it.
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As for the horror, it's just that Law modifiying Monet's body annoyies your aesthetics; if there is need or not to add more horror to it… well that's a problem for the mangaka who decides to write the story. It's not possible to say an interesting story with that plot can't be writen.
I'll share my point of view about it: consider that the whole story can be told up to the very end (when Luffy finds the One Piece and revert the world order) with out revealing if Monet's body was modified by Law or by smile or … So, lets suppose that happens and we never read a word about Monet again in the future chapters: then what will you, King Canon and Seafarer do with the debate? To me all those explanations can be true. So maybe you'll just drink some bear and smile a about the debate since there'd be no way to solve it.
Couldn't agree more. Cheers everyone
@Ukimix:
As for the horror, it's just that Law modifiying Monet's body annoyies your aesthetics; if there is need or not to add more horror to it… well that's a problem for the mangaka who decides to write the story. It's not possible to say an interesting story with that plot can't be writen.
It's not a matter of my aesthetics; it's a matter of reasonable writing. But perhaps the author can provide a reasonable explanation to whatever scenario he decide to go with :)
I don't know if I was suppose to impress by Jack but I was thinking "that's Lola's hair" during the whole incident. Except for that brief moment when I was reminded of Whitebeard.
So shooting electricity is a tecnique or a device? Anyway, I can't really be impress by sheephead after he's already been handled by Sanji.
Ceasar was useful throught his scientific knowledge? Count me impressed.
Where is Sanji in this chapter, where the hack is Brook fighting in this chapter and where is Caesar but mentioned in this chapter?
You guys are talking about Sanji one shoting that Sheep guy, what the hell am I missing some micro panel or entire page or something?
Don’t worry about it, and thank you for telling me :)
The problem is that I find the theory that she had her body remodeled at the hands of Law full of incongruities:
She was not exposed to a nerve gas, yet she had weird portions of her body modified: arms, feet, and loin. Even if we assume that it is due to the nerve gas, the nerve gas is known to affect the lower portion of the body entirely. That is, from the waist down. However, she only had her feet modified. Furthermore, this does not explain the arms since the gas does not paralyze whatsoever the victim’s arms. So it just makes zero sense to me from this aspect.
Let’s say she did not modify her body because of the nerve gas, but to gain the ability to fly, it suffices to just change her arms in order to gain that ability since it is a very efficient method of flying as was shown by the Marco & Robin. However, she had her feet and loin changed, which doesn’t make any sense. It’s like someone who had a bone fracture in his right forearm & instead of applying a splint or body cast to his right forearm, he applied it to all of his four limbs. It doesn’t make any sense.
The talons make sense as she uses those to hold her ice pick weapons during flight. They have combat application.
And like I said before, the tail is used for balance.
When she was first introduced to us, she was on a ‘bird stand’.
Yup. She had to adapt.
When she was both flying and sitting on the bird stand, she had her abdomen covered with feathers, and those feathers, on closer look, appear to be sprouting from her abdomen.
If they were sprouting from her abdomen, they wouldn't be going down her thighs (notice that the feathers of the skirt are small, which means they aren't connected to her abdomen). That would only make sense if she had a flap of skin revolving her abdomen.
It's a skirt.
Now, let's talk about her tail: The tail is clearly is sprouting from her flesh.
! http://i.imgur.com/Rz2vHV7.png
Now, if Smile fruits were able to be consumed together with devil fruits, and they had the transformation problem of not being able to reverse back, just as Momonosuke had the problem of not being able to consciously turn off his dragon transformation, it would explain everything: her entire appearance, the behaviour that is typical of birds(standing on a bird stand), and the feathers that were sprouting from her abdomen. All of it would fall into place and make perfect sense.
Do not equate Momonosuke's fruit with SMILEs. They are different. In fact, it's very well possible that Momo's fruit is actually not defective at all. His transformation problems are not unlike Kaku's.
Also, you did not explain she can make those abdomen feathers appear and disappear, but not her wings and talons. This is a major inconsistency. And again, Sheepshead does not have problems with transforming. You have not explained this at all.
Oh, and Monet uses a stand because she has no choice. Just like she has no choice but write with her wings. A SMILE user could just turn back and properly do those mundane things, because we know they have no problem transforming back and forth as seen by Sheepshead.
I am just aiming for the most reasonable explanation to that phenomenon, & this is the one I lean to.
Your entirely problem with Monet simply being a product of Law's ability is because you don't believe that she would willingly discard her limbs despite the fact that:
a) She adapted well to them.
b) It improved her combat ability.
c) It allows flight.
Really, what's so illogical about those things?
Well, in that very panel you showed me, God’s word was also saying that Vegapunk was a ‘cruel man’(through Nami). Should we believe that as well? If not, what makes Usopp’s interpretation any better than Nami’s?
Because Brownbeard's Vegapunk exposition is based on Caesar's lies.
Notice that Brownbeard did not deny Usopp's assertion that Monet was made by Law.
There are several times where Oda confirms certain details through interpretations. If he didn't Usopp to confirm that Monet was made by Law, he could have easily made Usopp omit Monet and just focus on the centaurs.
It was already shown to us that Usopp’s interpretation of events can be wrong:
He made similar (faulty) statements about Nami back at Cocoyashi Village: that she has been deceiving them & aiming to steal their money and ditch them.
I’ve gotta tell you that that was a pretty cool evidence you provided there, but unfortunately, in that very same panel, Nami was making faulty assertions in regard to Vegapunk (Vegapunk is a cruel man).
One thing does not disprove the other.
Especially because Nami's interpretation was based on a false story, whereas Usopp's interpretation was based on a true one. We know that Law did make the centaurs.
Jora had yellow-orange hair in the coloured version.
In other words, the entire point of that is to show us that the dwarves are working hard and are being enslaved by Doflamingo’s goons. That’s all the more reason not to dedicate those pages about a defect in Smiles since all of that could have been done in 1/3 or ¼ of a page without introducing the concept of ‘incomplete Smiles’.
As a matter of fact, it was already done in 1/3 of a page.
Probably, but not certainly. Because of this, it is entirely reasonable to think that they might give partial powers to the consumer(s).
Powermanga’s translation says that they haven’t completely turned into smiles, which could be rephrased as ‘they have incompletely turned into Smiles’.
It suffices that we refer to the complete Smiles as ‘Smiles’. However, we need an adjective to help us differentiate between the two Smile fruits because there are indeed two kinds of Smiles: those deemed useless and those deemed useful. You may use ‘failure’ as an adjective for the incomplete Smiles. Keep in mind that Vegapunk’s devil fruit was a ‘failure’ as well, and yet it gave Momonosuke the power to transform into a dragon.
In the very next page, the Doula slave worker says that only 1/10 of the stuff they produce ends up being usable, so yeah, it's safe to assume those incomplete SMILEs are useless.
All actions she takes in order to protect Caesar are to avoid being eliminated by Joker, as she herself stated to Luffy. So if she had to discard her arms and feet, it must be on Joker’s orders. In other words, she would have done so unwillingly. Otherwise(if Joker gave no such order), I don’t see why she’d go to such crazy lengths
Improved combat ability, flight…
You know, stuff useful for bodyguarding. Notice that she has 3-4 named techniques that require the use of her wings. The surgery made her stronger.
I don't know why you keep acting like she has been disabled. Surgeries can remodel you to make you more efficient, you know (like the centaurs, for example).
Transformation problem, typical of Smiles. We are bound to find transformation problems. Vegapunk’s devil fruit, which is most likely superior to Caesar’s Smile devil fruit, had transformation problems. Momonosuke could not consciously turn off his devil fruit transformation and since Caesar repeats with little (if any) creativity just what Vegapunk originally did, it is likely that a similar problem could be in Smiles. I don’t see how Caesar could fix those problems since he is intellectually inferior than Vegapunk, especially after he was banished by him from the science division four years ago. Ever since then, he has been cut off from new scientific information discovered by Vegapunk.
I think that it is all be part of the transformation problem. If the concept of the transformation problem had not been introduced to us in One Piece, I would have agreed with you.
You keep bringing up the transformation problem despite the fact that the one SMILE user we've seen so far (Sheepshead) did not show transformation problems.
If anything, the transformation problems exist for both Vegapunk and Caesar's fruit, but they are entirely different. Vegapunk has unwilling transformations, Caesar has incomplete ones.
The problems that I have with the ‘skirt’ idea is this: First off, that thing was shown to us only three times according to what I could remember. If it had been a skirt, it must have been part of her Punk-Hazard appearance because there is no reason to wear it and discard it. Secondly, skirts do not extend all the way to a person’s ribs. Furthermore, there should have been signs indicating distance between the skirt and her skin in order to demonstrate that it is indeed worn by her. Last but not least, her skin colour was fading into those feathers and vice versa.
I do not use the digitally-colored manga as a source for anything, because mistakes happen all the time in those.
And again, you explain that she can turn on and off abdominal feathers, but you can't explain why she can't turn off the rest of her body. What kind of transformation problem is this that only affects a small part of her body?
If we go by Occam's razor, Law being the responsible wins because it brings the least contradictions (if any). The only contradiction you ever brought up is something that you find out-of-character, even though there's nothing out-of-character there.
Remember, Monet had no problem having her heart, her most important body part, removed from her body at all. Why the heck do you think she would have a problem having her limbs cut out and replaced as well?
And the above statement confirms that Law had at least the opportunity to modify her further. He had to operate her anyway, so why is it hard to believe that she couldn't have asked for further modifications?
I don’t remember them being nonfunctional in the cold. Actually, I remember them being perfectly functional in the cold.
They're inside protective bubbles.
Go reread the war. Buggy had problems with his Den Den Mushi because of Kuzan's freezing (it was feeling cold and shivering).
EDIT: Damn, this is one tiring debate. I'll just conclude with the following:
Law's surgery benefitted Monet in various ways. It wasn't out-of-character. You have well-written theories, but they require a lot of unlikely, unconfirmed stuff (SMILEs not being not able to turn back, SMILEs being able to be consumed alongside normal DFs, Monet unreasonable dislike for surgeries that would make her more effective at her job, Usopp being selectively wrong about her but not the centaurs…). That's why they're really hard to swallow.
You guys are talking about Sanji one shoting that Sheep guy, what the hell am I missing some micro panel or entire page or something?
That was not a 'one shot'. Sanji used multiple hits on one attack. Look at the impacts of his foot.
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But he said "shot", not "shots" :getlost:
I cant see this page here:
http://readms.com/r/one_piece/808/3079/11
so what the hack…
Can you link me to the entire chapter lol
Couldn't agree more. Cheers everyone
It's not a matter of my aesthetics; it's a matter of reasonable writing. But perhaps the author can provide a reasonable explanation to whatever scenario he decide to go with :)
Many good stories are made of unreasonable texts.
Still waiting for the link guys… heh
Y'know, if Monet is a SMILE eater, then it makes me admire what may well be a grand fake out by Oda.
With everything we knew about Punk Hazard, its reasonable to assume Law modified Monet. Especially since she was fully human when Law first came to Punk Hazard.
Even after learning about the artificial Zoan fruits, because we also meet Momonosuke, we assume he is more indicative of what a SMILE does.
It's mentioned a few posts up that Momo is different from other SMILE eaters, but unless I'm remembering wrong, wasn't that because his fruit was actually deemed a failure? If I'm remembering right, that means we'd have assumed a proper SMILE eater would do so much more.
Now, seeing the Gifters for what they are, we see what SMILE eaters are actually capable of, which gives an alternate idea for what Monet was and possibly explains why Momonosuke's been so important, all by virtue of hiding in plain sight and letting the readers' assumptions do the rest.
Caesar called it a Failure, that doesnt make it true lol. Momos df is probably better than those SMILEs.
Also here is the chapter blue-san want a link of http://www.mangapanda.com/one-piece/795/4
It's mentioned a few posts up that Momo is different from other SMILE eaters, but unless I'm remembering wrong, wasn't that because his fruit was actually deemed a failure? If I'm remembering right, that means we'd have assumed a proper SMILE eater would do so much more.
No, Momo did not eat a SMILE at all. He ate an artificial DF made by Vegapunk.
Caesar's fruits not only use an unique ingredient (S.A.D.), but they also require an unique factoring process (Dwarves' botanism). They can end up a lot differently thanks to those.
Also, it was deemed a failure because Caesar told so. You know, the guy that hates Vegapunk's guts.
He just can't get away from what he did to the Minks, though.
Especially considering that Wanda brought up the plot point about how Jack reached Zou in the first place and why he thought Raizou was there.
Expanding on your post KC I believe that the reason Sanji disappeared at the moment is not related to his wanted alive poster, as I think the structure of it can be used as a red herring. The true reason as to why I think Sanji parted ways with the crew has to do with Wandas comment. Sanji made it his responsability to look after the "well being" and actions of the samurais when he took Kin'nemon's head in during the punk Hazard arc. We can actually say that Sanji's actions have weight as to why the Samurais ended up travelling with the Crew. Now then, if the samurais are the ones providing info to Kaido (by their own will or unknowingly) and this data has been used against a country. Sanji's persona will indeed try to get to its core.
What I am trying to say is that I believe Sanji left to investigate further on the Samurais and their reason for travelling to Zou as for all I know There is no reason known at the moment. Kin and Momo were in PH by mistake and in Dressrosa with Kanjuro because of an attack or navigation issues (I cant remember which) but Zou has always been in their route map and thus it intrigues me. I think everything will tie to the whales forest secret, at least thats my perception
Caesar called it a Failure, that doesnt make it true lol. Momos df is probably better than those SMILEs.
Precisely why I'm calling all this a fake out. It was thought a failure for whatever reason, but actually was not. That fact can explain other parties' interest in Momonosuke, and that was hidden by the fact we thought he'd gotten a bad fruit. A fact helped along by his difficulty controlling it.
No, Momo did not eat a SMILE at all. He ate an artificial DF made by Vegapunk.
Caesar's fruits not only use an unique ingredient (S.A.D.), but they also require an unique factoring process (Dwarves' botanism). They can end up a lot differently thanks to those.
Also, it was deemed a failure because Caesar told so. You know, the guy that hates Vegapunk's guts.
on the other hand, perhaps I was remembering wrong after all and that part wasn't as accurate as I'd thought…
Caesar called it a Failure, that doesnt make it true lol. Momos df is probably better than those SMILEs.
Also here is the chapter blue-san want a link of http://www.mangapanda.com/one-piece/795/4
ah totally forgot about it thanks Hajro
How could one come to your previous thoughts while reading the manga, there was nothing hinting to that so far in the entire time since Kin'emon appeared.
In punk hazard and then further in dressrosa there were implications that there are many countries at war, that receive weapons from DD, one of them being wano, therefore the fear of kinemon and momo when they heard the name of kaido… so i assumed zou was one of them, because usopp stated that words 'samurai' or 'wano' are better be unheard there...
P.S. please check my signature
@joekido:
Can't tell if you are joking or not so have you read Drum arc?
@uniaka:
Well, chopper's unique thing is that he is like the reverse normal zoan. instead of human that eats a zoan that makes him beast, chopper is like a beast that get human'ish with the zoan fruit.
What I'm saying is I believe that the Hito Hito no Mi is not a Zoan Devil Fruit. Is that hard to comprehend? And Yes, I've read the Drum Arc.
If I remember correctly Oda has stated in an SBS that the fruit that Chopper ate is indeed a zoan fruit. Though I can't remember which volume it was… I also think that it's mentioned somewhere in the manga also. Plus all the other references and hints in dialogue in the course of reading the manga makes it kinda obvious that it's a zoan.
(Edit: I edited my post at the same time sgamer quoted me, and he said it better what I tried to say in my last sentence.)
If I remember correctly Oda has stated in an SBS that the fruit that Chopper ate is indeed a zoan fruit. Though I can't remember which volume it was… I also think that it's mentioned somewhere in the manga also.
[qimg]http://i10.mangapanda.com/one-piece/140/one-piece-57993.jpg[/qimg]
What I'm saying is I believe that the Hito Hito no Mi is not a Zoan Devil Fruit. Is that hard to comprehend? And Yes, I've read the Drum Arc.
Plus, contextually, we have the fact Drum is where Zoan fruits were introduced. Outside the Rumble Ball Chopper had adhered to the three forms rule pre time skip. And the only other Human-Human fruit we've seen had a Model, which is unique to Zoans (also unique is two Zoans of same type, albeit with different models)
http://i10.mangapanda.com/one-piece/140/one-piece-57993.jpg
What I'm saying is I believe that the Hito Hito no Mi is not a Zoan Devil Fruit. Is that hard to comprehend? And Yes, I've read the Drum Arc.
Did you know Sengoku's DF is also a Hito Hito. And a mytical Zoan as well.
Did you know Sengoku's DF is also a Hito Hito. And a mytical Zoan as well.
Devil Fruit Roger era is the most powerfull i think, Oda confirms that Gura Gura no Mi is the Strongest Paramecia.
@Han:
Devil Fruit Roger era is the most powerfull i think, Oda confirms that Gura Gura no Mi is the Strongest Paramecia.
I do not understand can you try to explain your idea in more detail?
The talons make sense as she uses those to hold her ice pick weapons during flight. They have combat application.
She was using her wings to fight Zoro. She was solidifying them with her snow ability and attacking Zoro.
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She was also using her wings to hold her ice picks.
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So it suffices to use her wings for both flight and combat application.
@King:
And like I said before, the tail is used for balance.
It was unnecessary since both Robin and Marco do not use ‘tails’ to fly.
If they were sprouting from her abdomen, they wouldn't be going down her thighs (notice that the feathers of the skirt are small, which means they aren't connected to her abdomen). That would only make sense if she had a flap of skin revolving her abdomen.
The same goes with her tail. She had feathers of different sizes, and yet her tail was that long.
@King:
Do not equate Momonosuke's fruit with SMILEs. They are different.
Despite their slight outward differences, they both share those ring patterns.
! @King:
In fact, it's very well possible that Momo's fruit is actually not defective at all. His transformation problems are not unlike Kaku's.
Remember the argument about Momo transforming into a dragon unconsciously due to things that scare him(Kaido)? That’s my argument here for the defect in his devil fruit.
@King:
Also, you did not explain she can make those abdomen feathers appear and disappear, but not her wings and talons. This is a major inconsistency.
As I said, that must be part of the transformation problem, which is perfectly reasonable. It is not an inconsistency. It has not an explanation yet just as much as Sheepshead’s horns that disappear from his head and appear on his fists doesn’t.
Are we supposed to find an explanation to Sheepshead's anomaly before deducing that he is a SMILE user?
@King:
And again, Sheepshead does not have problems with transforming. You have not explained this at all.
Okay, I’ll explain this to you.
The transformation problems ‘differ’ from SMILE user to another.
As you well know, Sheepshead has black horns on his head
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When he transformed, however, his black horns disappeared from his head and appeared on his fists.
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The Gifters, on the other hand, despite being transformed, kept their black horns on their heads.
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Furthermore, the Gifters were not shown ‘transforming’; they were shown ‘transformed'(just like Monet), which shocked the minks.
@King:
Your entirely problem with Monet simply being a product of Law's ability is because you don't believe that she would willingly discard her limbs despite the fact that:
a) She adapted well to them.
b) It improved her combat ability.
c) It allows flight.
Really, what's so illogical about those things?
Nonnecessity is my problem with this. Her wings are plentifully sufficient for everything.
Because Brownbeard's Vegapunk exposition is based on Caesar's lies.
Doesn’t change the fact that Nami was being misled there, just as Usopp must have been.
Don’t forget that Brownbeard said that the ‘cause’ of their body change was the ‘nerve gas’, and yet Usopp lumped the centaurs, satyrs, and Monet in one ‘conclusion’ based on Brownbeard’s words about the aftermath of the disaster from four years: poison gas. And that is wrong.
Notice that Brownbeard did not deny Usopp's assertion that Monet was made by Law.
That’s because the discussion was swiftly shifted to the issue of the ‘dragon’ in the same speech bubble.
@King:
Especially because Nami's interpretation was based on a false story, whereas Usopp's interpretation was based on a true one. We know that Law did make the centaurs.
A portion of his story was based on a true story, whereas the other portion is still unconfirmed & doesn’t make sense.
@King:
Improved combat ability, flight…
You know, stuff useful for bodyguarding. Notice that she has 3-4 named techniques that require the use of her wings. The surgery made her stronger.
Her wings, yes. Other parts are purely unnecessary.
She can use multiple fighting methods without needing her feet:
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@King:
And again, you explain that she can turn on and off abdominal feathers, but you can't explain why she can't turn off the rest of her body. What kind of transformation problem is this that only affects a small part of her body?
The problem we have seen with the Gifters. They have partial body transformations. As for why she can turn on her body parts but not off, that’s a question whose answer I do not have. However, it won’t stray from reason for the answer to that to be a defect in Smiles. Sheepshead’s horns literally disappear from his head and appear on his fists. If we try to explain that, the best we could come up with is that it is a defect in Smile. The defect is irrefutably proven to be different from a smile user to the other.
@King:
Remember, Monet had no problem having her heart, her most important body part, removed from her body at all. Why the heck do you think she would have a problem having her limbs cut out and replaced as well?
Monet had to act as the faithful secretary of Caesar in order to gain his trust and please Doflamingo, so it is reasonable that she would do something like that when asked by Caesar. It is all done so as to not jeopardize Joker’s plans and get herself eliminated by him. However, to remove her own limbs and mess with her loin in order to gain animal parts for whatever reason with neither Joker nor Caesar’s orders would be absolutely unreasonable.
The possible notion of Caesar messing with her body would be absolutely unreasonable since he has sufficient replaceable guinea pigs in his lab.
Furthermore, Caesar does not need the protection of Monet from anyone because 1) he had dragons on his island to protect his island from any invaders. 2) he had many underlings under the palm of his hand. 3) his island is undetectable by logs, which diminishes the risks of having it found by troublemakers. 4) he weakened Law by taking his heart and made a pact with him to deal with anyone troubling him.
@King:
And the above statement confirms that Law had at least the opportunity to modify her further. He had to operate her anyway, so why is it hard to believe that she couldn't have asked for further modifications?
Because it suffices to have only her arms modified. It would be more than sufficient to accomplish her desired purpose: flight & combat.
@King:
They're inside protective bubbles.
The bubbles are used to protect the snails from the poison gas, not from subzero temperature.
@King:
Go reread the war. Buggy had problems with his Den Den Mushi because of Kuzan's freezing (it was feeling cold and shivering).
There is no such thing. This is the panel that shows Buggy getting unfrozen by Akainu’s magma attack.
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As you can see, there is no Den Den Mushi shivering.
Hope this helps.
The bubbles are used to protect the snails from the poison gas, not from subzero temperature.
There is no such thing. This is the panel that shows Buggy getting unfrozen by Akainu’s magma attack.
! http://i.imgur.com/Bp5AubY.png
As you can see, there is no Den Den Mushi shivering.Hope this helps.
but in ID is established that Den Den Mushi don't work in extreme cold weather
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i think PH could be the same because it was result of Aokiji and Sakasuki's fight
but in ID is established that Den Den Mushi don't work in extreme cold weather
! http://a.mangatown.com/store/manga/106/55-536.0/compressed/one_piece_536_06.jpg?v=51237496363
i think PH could be the same because it was result of Aokiji and Sakasuki's fight
That's a pretty cool contribution there. I totally forgot about it.
However, the Den Den Mushi were totally functional in Punk Hazard.
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This solves it, I hope.
She was using her wings to fight Zoro. She was solidifying them with her snow ability and attacking Zoro.
! http://i.imgur.com/QBNiPBr.png
She was also using her wings to hold her ice picks.! http://i.imgur.com/yMmfs4c.png
So it suffices to use her wings for both flight and combat application.
She needs to use those Ice Picks somehow while flying when her wings are in use.
@Australopithecus:
It was unnecessary since both Robin and Marco do not use ‘tails’ to fly.
Marco's bird form is that of a magic legendary bird of fire that has those three tails things and most of the time its only those fire wings that can give him more power of propulsion and when actually flying he uses the full phoenix form. And Robin doesn't exactly flies.(Really. only 5 seconds.)
Are we supposed to find an explanation to Sheepshead's anomaly before deducing that he is a SMILE user?
Okay, I’ll explain this to you.
The transformation problems ‘differ’ from SMILE user to another.
As you well know, Sheepshead has black horns on his head
! http://i.imgur.com/ihGxkco.png
When he transformed, however, his black horns disappeared from his head and appeared on his fists.! http://i.imgur.com/MXf8zGT.png
The Gifters, on the other hand, despite being transformed, kept their black horns on their heads.
You can see his hair also grows. I like to think its sheep's wool.
@Australopithecus:
Furthermore, the Gifters were not shown ‘transforming’; they were shown ‘transformed'(just like Monet), which shocked the minks.
Just because Oda didn't show they transforming it doesn't mean they are always in that state.
When it come to Monet, I think the easiest explanation of all is that Oda decided to create a harpy character. It definitely wouldn't be the first time a character's design is suboptimal in some way. Mr. 2's swan boots don't make any sense as weapons. Yet Oda went with that since he wanted to create a certain theme for the character.
Because of that I have hard time believing there's more to Monet's appearance than Law's surgery. Like King Cannon already said, you have to make pretty bold assumptions to come to the conclusion that Monet ate a smile.
Her wings, yes. Other parts are purely unnecessary.
Her other parts are necessary for her harpy design to be cool. Honestly you are overthinking to much in this. It is just Oda creativity at work.
I think most of the comunity agrees now on the fact she benefit from Law power after she was revealed to be a logia user.
As King Cannon said your theory only works if one can eat a devil fruit and a smile and if her smile is defective. You cannot force us to accept these two facts since you have nothing that can back them up so far so this discussion is going in circle and starts to be a bit useless in my opinion.
What I'm saying is I believe that the Hito Hito no Mi is not a Zoan Devil Fruit. Is that hard to comprehend? And Yes, I've read the Drum Arc.
The Human Human fruit is a Zoan. There's been two different models shown so far, the other belonging to Sengoku. His model is the Human Human Fruit: Model Daibatsu (Golden Buddha). Chopper's is just the standard human model, but it would be redundant to call it the Human Human Fruit: Model Normal Human.
Chapter 808: Monet is not a logia and Chopper is not a zoan!
Good thing there's no break this week.
Precisely why I'm calling all this a fake out. It was thought a failure for whatever reason, but actually was not. That fact can explain other parties' interest in Momonosuke, and that was hidden by the fact we thought he'd gotten a bad fruit. A fact helped along by his difficulty controlling it.
But Momonosuke seemed to be important before he ever got a DF. We've got Kanjuro sacrificing himself and saying that getting Momonosuke away is all that matters in a flashback. Jora was demanding that the SHs fork over Momonosuke before the Dofla family could have ever known he had the dragon fruit. Dragonosuke was never put in the spotlight on the PH broadcast and CC's mooks had no idea who Momonosuke was before the other kids said he disappeared, in 685 they're confused by the claims of a kid escaping because everyone on the boarding list is accounted for. It seems like the fact that ate a DF wouldn't have been reported to Dofla.
Chapter 808: Monet is not a logia and Chopper is not a zoan!
Good thing there's no break this week.
How did this discussion reach such idiocy? Vergo having a metal fruit had more relevance and rationality than this junk. How does two obvious facts like these become topics of contention– how?
Dofla has no idea Momo had eaten a devil fruit. Him and samurai are important because of something else.
Also, just because Vegapunk deemed Momo's fruit a failure, doesn't mean it's bad. It just means the fruit itself hasn't fullfilled all the goals Vegapunk had set for it. Like, maybe he wanted it to be able to breathe fire. It can't breathe fire!? Vegapunk fail! :(
http://i10.mangapanda.com/one-piece/140/one-piece-57993.jpg
What I'm saying is I believe that the Hito Hito no Mi is not a Zoan Devil Fruit. Is that hard to comprehend? And Yes, I've read the Drum Arc.
I thought obvious facts were obvious…..
But Momonosuke seemed to be important before he ever got a DF. We've got Kanjuro sacrificing himself and saying that getting Momonosuke away is all that matters in a flashback. Jora was demanding that the SHs fork over Momonosuke before the Dofla family could have ever known he had the dragon fruit. Dragonosuke was never put in the spotlight on the PH broadcast and CC's mooks had no idea who Momonosuke was before the other kids said he disappeared, in 685 they're confused by the claims of a kid escaping because everyone on the boarding list is accounted for. It seems like the fact that ate a DF wouldn't have been reported to Dofla.
Yeah, I'm realizing that I was misremembering some Punk Hazard details.
She was using her wings to fight Zoro. She was solidifying them with her snow ability and attacking Zoro.
! http://i.imgur.com/QBNiPBr.png
She was also using her wings to hold her ice picks.! http://i.imgur.com/yMmfs4c.png
So it suffices to use her wings for both flight and combat application.
Talons too. She needs them to fight with ice picks while flying. She can't do that if her wings are already busy holding things or being swung around like blades.
They're good for offense too.
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It was unnecessary since both Robin and Marco do not use ‘tails’ to fly.
Dude, have you thought that maybe Monet has a tail because of design choices?
Like, Caesar has random horns for no reason at all but to look like the satyrs' boss. Heck, the satyrs' horns are also unnecessary, but they exist because they make sense design wise. We know Law put those useless horns there as the prisoners didn't have them before, so why is Monet's tail a big deal?
Other example: Magellan's fake wings, which have no purpose but make him look more demonic. They work thematically and that's it.
The same goes with her tail. She had feathers of different sizes, and yet her tail was that long.
Even then, abdominal feathers should revolve her entire thighs, but they don't.
Despite their slight outward differences, they both share those ring patterns.
! http://i.imgur.com/O58ICZ0.png
Remember the argument about Momo transforming into a dragon unconsciously due to things that scare him(Kaido)? That’s my argument here for the defect in his devil fruit. As I said, that must be part of the transformation problem, which is perfectly reasonable. It is not an inconsistency. It has not an explanation yet just as much as Sheepshead’s horns that disappear from his head and appear on his fists doesn’t.Are we supposed to find an explanation to Sheepshead's anomaly before deducing that he is a SMILE user?
Sheepshead's horns are thematic with the rest of his crew, so they probably aren't natural anyway. They're supposed to emulate Kaido's. Remember what I said earlier about thematic design in regards to the satyrs.
Sheepshead, for all intents and purposes, is not a natural Zoan as the Gifters were pointed out to look weird and we know Kaido has a bunch of SMILE users, so Sheepshead being a SMILE user is a safe bet as he himself is a Gifter.
And he has shown no problem transforming.
Okay, I’ll explain this to you.
The transformation problems ‘differ’ from SMILE user to another.
See, you're pretty much explaining your theory by throwing more inconsistencies in there.
That's why they are fundamentally broken. You can't just say "every SMILE user follows different rules" and use that as an argument. You're pretty much answering inconsistency with more inconsistency.
And this is all because you believe Monet would think becoming part bird would be unreasonable. Never mind that using a SMILE could cause the same thing to happen to her according to your theory.
As you well know, Sheepshead has black horns on his head
! http://i.imgur.com/ihGxkco.png
When he transformed, however, his black horns disappeared from his head and appeared on his fists.! http://i.imgur.com/MXf8zGT.png
The Gifters, on the other hand, despite being transformed, kept their black horns on their heads.! http://i.imgur.com/uWa5iHd.png
Furthermore, the Gifters were not shown ‘transforming’; they were shown ‘transformed'(just like Monet), which shocked the minks.
Sheepshead's horns are fake (like the cat ears of Kuro's crew). Notice that his hair did change and became tall and curly, like sheep's wool. The horns most likely disappeared inside the hair (because they're pretty small).
AND SHEEPSHEAD WAS SHOWN TRANSFORMING!!!
Never mind that the horns on Sheeps' arms are completely different from the ones on his head.
I believe the double horns are used to identify the Gifters as they all have those. The Pleasures either don't have horns or have a single horn. Some of the Gifters actually use helmets as well, further proof that they're just decorative.
Nonnecessity is my problem with this. Her wings are plentifully sufficient for everything.
No they aren't. What if she needs to carry or use something during flight like… you know, her weapons.
Sorry, but I think your insistence is really blinding you against some really obvious things.
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Doesn’t change the fact that Nami was being misled there, just as Usopp must have been.
Don’t forget that Brownbeard said that the ‘cause’ of their body change was the ‘nerve gas’, and yet Usopp lumped the centaurs, satyrs, and Monet in one ‘conclusion’ based on Brownbeard’s words about the aftermath of the disaster from four years: poison gas. And that is wrong.
That’s because the discussion was swiftly shifted to the issue of the ‘dragon’ in the same speech bubble.
Nami was misled because Brownbeard was misled with a story that he didn't know the truth about.
This is not the case with Law making hybrids. Brownbeard saw it happen with his own eyes. He was one of them. How the hell can he be misled in this case?
Usopp's conclusion comes from knowing that Law used his powers to create the hybrids, and that is true. He never mentions the poison gas.
In fact, Usopp follows right after Sanji's observation that those people in the laboratory were made by Law. The gas is irrelevant in this context, which is further shown by his questioning of the dragon, who has nothing to do with the gas.
A portion of his story was based on a true story, whereas the other portion is still unconfirmed & doesn’t make sense.
What doesn't make sense? Monet going through surgery that actually improved her?
You act like you know everything about Monet's personality.
Her wings, yes. Other parts are purely unnecessary.
She can use multiple fighting methods without needing her feet:
! http://i.imgur.com/ScQyCoz.png
! http://i.imgur.com/zFrSUO3.png
Why do you keep ignoring the ice picks? Your arguments suffer because you clearly are only focusing on the stuff that helps your theory.
She uses her talons for fighting. This was shown. They're not unnecessary.
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Why don't you complain about Magellan's fake wings that are unnecessary for his fighting style?
The problem we have seen with the Gifters. They have partial body transformations. As for why she can turn on her body parts but not off, that’s a question whose answer I do not have. However, it won’t stray from reason for the answer to that to be a defect in Smiles. Sheepshead’s horns literally disappear from his head and appear on his fists. If we try to explain that, the best we could come up with is that it is a defect in Smile. The defect is irrefutably proven to be different from a smile user to the other.
You're talking about horn decorations. They're not irrefutable proof.
Sheepshead's hair clearly changes during his transformation. His hair pretty much becomes a tall afro, which most likely caused the horns to be hidden by the hair.
Clothing disappearing upon Zoan transformations is not a new thing.
Monet had to act as the faithful secretary of Caesar in order to gain his trust and please Doflamingo, so it is reasonable that she would do something like that when asked by Caesar. It is all done so as to not jeopardize Joker’s plans and get herself eliminated by him. However, to remove her own limbs and mess with her loin in order to gain animal parts for whatever reason with neither Joker nor Caesar’s orders would be absolutely unreasonable.
Not if she got several benefits from it. Benefits that would allow her to do her job properly.
Flying, better combat ability…
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...
...
And wait a second, did you just say that she wouldn't mess with her body through surgery to gain animal parts because that would be unreasonable, but messing with her body through a risky artificial fruit to gain animal parts is not unreasonable?
DON'T YOU SEE THE PROBLEM, HERE?!
Furthermore, Caesar does not need the protection of Monet from anyone because 1) he had dragons on his island to protect his island from any invaders. 2) he had many underlings under the palm of his hand. 3) his island is undetectable by logs, which diminishes the risks of having it found by troublemakers. 4) he weakened Law by taking his heart and made a pact with him to deal with anyone troubling him.
He clearly needed her protection here.
Because it suffices to have only her arms modified. It would be more than sufficient to accomplish her desired purpose: flight & combat.
She needed talons in order to carry weapons and other objects during flight.
Oh, and fighting. And here she is clashing with Tashigi with her talons once more (and beating her). Are you going to argue they're useless?
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The bubbles are used to protect the snails from the poison gas, not from subzero temperature.
Any kind of coating can protect someone from sub-zero temperatures. That's how igloos work, for example. You feel cold because your body heat escapes to the cold surroundings. The bubbles theoretically prevent that.
Also, Black Den Den Mushi live inside those watch-like objects, so they probably don't feel cold.
EDIT: Hopefully, this ends this "Monet didn't need those bird parts" nonsense.
Sorry for all the images, I hate being subtle.
Hopefully Kin'emon and Kanjuro makes it to the top next chapter.
Maybe they will if they work really hard for it, lol
Now, if Smile fruits were able to be consumed together with devil fruits, and they had the transformation problem of not being able to reverse back, just as Momonosuke had the problem of not being able to consciously turn off his dragon transformation, it would explain everything: her entire appearance, the behaviour that is typical of birds(standing on a bird stand), and the feathers that were sprouting from her abdomen. All of it would fall into place and make perfect sense.
I'm not positive on the possibility of eating both a Smile and a regular Devil Fruit. Not that there is any information that allows to discard it, but in manner of power race cumulating Zoan powers with a Logia or Paramecia is a can of worms I would rather not open, lest everyone and their mother start having multiple DF. Another possibility would be not a Smile, but an experience of Caesar in the process that eventually led to the creation of Smiles. Anyway I completely agree with Ukimix that we may never hear Oda's final word on this, so here's to an interesting discussion that I'm going to drop since it's starting to run in circles
As King Cannon said your theory only works if one can eat a devil fruit and a smile and if her smile is defective.
That's true.
@Kdom:
You cannot force us to accept these two facts since you have nothing that can back them up so far so this discussion is going in circle and starts to be a bit useless in my opinion.
I wasn't forcing anyone. I was only listing the reasons behind my belief. In any case, the explanation you provided about the tail drawn for her harpy design to be cool is an explanation that makes sense.
@King:
Even then, abdominal feathers should revolve her entire thighs, but they don't.
Yep, that was pretty weird. A skirt should as well, but it doesn’t. Let’s just leave it as one of One Piece oddities for now ;)
@King:
Sheepshead's horns are fake (like the cat ears of Kuro's crew). Notice that his hair did change and became tall and curly, like sheep's wool. The horns most likely disappeared inside the hair (because they're pretty small).
King Cannon, the entire argument about Sheepshead is because you missed the horns that I was trying to show you. Look again.
Whether they are artificial or not does not change the fact that those horns, when he transforms, disappear from his head and appear on his fists. I am talking about the black horns, not the sheep’s horns.
If the Gifters had the same defect, their horns would disappear from their heads as well. But they didn’t, which is why I told you that the transformation differs from a user to another.
Some of the Gifters actually use helmets as well, further proof that they're just decorative.
The only way to tell that horns are fakes is if they are part of the helmet that is worn. Otherwise, we cannot.
Why don't you complain about Magellan's fake wings that are unnecessary for his fighting style?
I didn’t know that his wings were fake, assuming they are indeed fake. Skypeans have wings that are useless to them in anything, yet they are not 'fake'.
He clearly needed her protection here.
And that protection was done with her snow ability.
"Any kind of coating can protect someone from sub-zero temperatures. That's how igloos work, for example. You feel cold because your body heat escapes to the cold surroundings. The bubbles theoretically prevent that.
Also, Black Den Den Mushi live inside those watch-like objects, so they probably don't feel cold."
Ok, your argument is that the feathers that Monet had on her abdomen is just a feathery skirt done in order to protect the den den mushi from cold. And I have said that the den den mushi function in cold without the need of such things.
1st proof
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2nd proof
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And 3rd proof
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There is more, but I stopped at these.
Finally, King Cannon, this is not going anywhere. The arguments you provided do not solve the issue. We are just going in circles, and you are losing your patience, & are using the straw man & ad hominem fallacies. This argument about Monet won’t get us farther as it clearly doesn’t make much sense, and it will just leave ill feelings between us, which is something I do not desire to happen. Let’s just agree to disagree about Monet.