Maybe it first started off as just like 3 guys and kept growing. Maybe if Ace joined, they would become the Hachibukai!
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Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !
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I don't think I buy it being more than 7. In the manga, when one goes down, they replace him, which implies that 7 is the minimum for the sake of balance.
There's no text to back it, but 7 would make sense as a maximum too, since they're giving pirate crews immunity. Do that for too many powerful pirates and they may end up with even more issues then they already have.
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Maybe we’ll get a movie with former warlords teaming up to face the Straw Hats just like we got a former admiral in One Piece Film Z
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Maybe I'm misremembering but wasn't it said that Zed got his arm cut off by a former Warlord? I think I remember that being a thing and a lot of people speculating it would've been the new warlord at the time, until that turned out to be Weevil. I don't think we have a clear indicator on who that Warlord was.
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I always thought that would pop up in the story in the same manner as Shiki with Impel Down. Doesn't even have to be Z by name. Just that the Warlord has done horrific things to former Marines or something.
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I always thought it has to be 7 because of the 7 seas thing. Granted the seas in one piece world aren't exactly 7 but shichibukai was way early in oda's career so he might have stuck to 7 by drawing inspiration from, well, reality. It's also a common phrase used during the age of exploration and piracy and the whole sail the seven seas thing.
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@zeltrax225 I was under the impression that it’s because he likes Seven Samurai.
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@All-Fiction seven samurai is basically why OP exists (^○^)
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@Greg said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
@Ivotas
I don't think that's the case? Do you have the Chap? I can already see a few ways a fairly innocent line can be misconstrued.I mean, it's not exactly natural to say, "Well, all Warlords that ever have existed and currently exist are all at this one place with no exceptions."
Sure mate. It's in chapter 557 when Doflamingo says 「"七武海"も新旧お揃いで…!!フッフッフ そしてアレが噂の大問題ルーキー麦わらか…!!」when Luffy's group arrived at the scene. While it does not say 全員 the high context nature of the Japanese language would indicate that he means "all past and present" as the translations went with. Otherwise the statement itself loses a bit of it's luster if it's meant to indicate it's just a selection of past and present members we have gathered here.
@All-Fiction said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
@zeltrax225 I was under the impression that it’s because he likes Seven Samurai.
I haven't read the original data books but I'm quite sure that in the German version of either Red or Blue it is said that the Seven Warlords are a reference to the Seven Samurai.
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@Ivotas I mean, it really does just seem to be about the arrival of Jinbe and Crocodile restoring the lineup to what it had been before Luffy started messing things up, which is the way it had presumably stood for a while. All of Doflamingo's generation of Warlords in one place again. Yeah, it's definitely a line that's in part for the reader, who was introduced to the Warlords as that particular group of seven and hadn't previously seen them all together, but you don't even have to be particularly charitable to interpret it as something that works from Doffy's perspective too.
I'm no stranger to getting caught up on nitpick inconsistencies myself, but this doesn't look like anything to me.
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@Captain-M said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
@Ivotas I mean, it really does just seem to be about the arrival of Jinbe and Crocodile restoring the lineup to what it had been before Luffy started messing things up, which is the way it had presumably stood for a while. All of Doflamingo's generation of Warlords in one place again. Yeah, it's definitely a line that's in part for the reader, who was introduced to the Warlords as that particular group of seven and hadn't previously seen them all together, but you don't even have to be particularly charitable to interpret it as something that works from Doffy's perspective too.
I'm no stranger to getting caught up on nitpick inconsistencies myself, but this doesn't look like anything to me.
That's the thing though, they are not. Teach is not there yet. That's why I said in my original post that Oda screwed it up both ways. Neither the past nor the present is accurate. Even if we go with what you suggest that it's about Doflamingo's peers, then it's inaccurate because of Teach.
That aside the point I mentioned previously does count. That being that the high context frame of the Japanese language is very indicative of how it is to be understood. It didn't have to be formulated this way if Doffy just wanted to refer to his peers exclusively, especially with Teach not being there yet. Something along the lines of "now all my original "partners" have joined" doesn't sound that lame IMO, whereas I agree that "Well, all Warlords that ever have existed and currently exist are all at this one place with no exceptions." does.
But then again, Marineford is retcon central anyways, so why should Oda have put in any further thought into a throwaway line like this when he messed up far bigger things back then?
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@Ivotas But that's the thing, we can probably assume that the previous order of Warlords had stood for a while before Luffy got Croc kicked and Jinbe took his moral stand. I don't really have anything from the text to base that on, but it would fit with Luffy's portrayal as a disruptor and agent of change. I would guess the old lineup goes at least back to whatever number of years previously Ace turned down an offer. Comparatively, Teach would have been Doflamingo's peer for anywhere from a few months down to a few weeks, depending on your interpretation of the timeline. The pre-war dinner in chapter 524 is likely the only time they even met.
I'm not going to give commentary on the Japanese language, but the context I'm seeing in the actual chapter doesn't really show me a need for that line to be as grandiose as you seem to be implying it should be. It's not being treated as a big moment with a don in the background, it's just one panel of many in the montage of reactions to Luffy and the Impel Down crew's big entrance. It's a sequence of like 20 frames across two pages and change of everyone from fodder Marines to Admirals putting their two cents in with no one bit particularly emphasised. Doflamingo's recognising that his old coworkers have shown up, not dropping a big Warlord lore bomb.
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@Captain-M said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
@Ivotas But that's the thing, we can probably assume that the previous order of Warlords had stood for a while before Luffy got Croc kicked and Jinbe took his moral stand. I don't really have anything from the text to base that on, but it would fit with Luffy's portrayal as a disruptor and agent of change. I would guess the old lineup goes at least back to whatever number of years previously Ace turned down an offer. Comparatively, Teach would have been Doflamingo's peer for anywhere from a few months down to a few weeks, depending on your interpretation of the timeline. The pre-war dinner in chapter 524 is likely the only time they even met.
How long Teach and Doflamingo were peers doesn't matter though. It matters that they were especially if Oda makes Doflamingo specifically say "past and present". If the present peers don't matter then just don't mention them at all. It has not to be there if that's not what Doflamingo meant to say.
Also since this is still a visual medium aimed at an audience no matter how brief the time window, them sitting at the dinner table and that Warlord color spread are things that stick with the reader. As a mangaka who has to care about both dialog and symbolism Oda would surely be aware the perception that creates. But those images are just a bonus, what matters is that Teach was a Warlord in the current timeline where Doffy felt the need to include "present" in his statement.
I'm not going to give commentary on the Japanese language, but the context I'm seeing in the actual chapter doesn't really show me a need for that line to be as grandiose as you seem to be implying it should be. It's not being treated as a big moment with a don in the background, it's just one panel of many in the montage of reactions to Luffy and the Impel Down crew's big entrance. It's a sequence of like 20 frames across two pages and change of everyone from fodder Marines to Admirals putting their two cents in with no one bit particularly emphasised. Doflamingo's recognising that his old coworkers have shown up, not dropping a big Warlord lore bomb.
I'm not making the line more grandiose that it is. What I'm saying is that it IS there. And if it means nothing then it doesn't have to be there. If this get's more grandiose than it is, then because APF once again can't handle someone pointing out that a throwaway line Oda wrote might have been a inaccurate.
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Wasn't Jimbei still considered a Warlord at that time, so old and new is still a valid description for them. He resigned from the warlord position on the next pages.
So we've got a former Warlord with Crocodile and a current one with Jimbei. -
@Ivotas You can take it how you will, whether you want to see Doflamingo as an exposition machine that malfunctioned and delivered wrong data, or as a human character who prioritises the co-workers he's had for years over the one he's had for weeks and doesn't stop to consider every past generation of his title as he cackles out an off the cuff response to an unexpected development.
Call me a sucker if you want, but I think sometimes it's fine to give the author the benefit of the doubt and interpret something as a character making a mistake rather than the story contradicting itself. The level to which I'm willing to do this depends on how much I like the story, of course, but lucky for Oda I enjoy One Piece quite a lot.
And like I said in my first reply, I'm no stranger to getting hung up on nitpick inconsistencies. Off the top of my head I remember going on about Luffy's sudden outfit change when he went Gear Five against Lucci and the lack of horns on Caesar's silhouette in the first panel of the MADS flashback in recent weeks. These things happen, and there are definitely people who care less about them than I do. Sometimes people jump in to offer their own interpretations of things that didn't add up or feel quite right to me - like all the other possible readings of how Hancock's fruit works that might make the S-Snake scene less creepy. I didn't feel like those most of those ideas had been fully justified in-canon yet, but I also didn't tell the people offering them they couldn't handle my critique either
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@Captain-M
So to summerize this is pretty much a "It's only an inaccuracy if I actually care about it. If I don't then it's clearly you who is overreacting" situation. I mean I'm fine if you don't care about it as I myself sometimes don't really feel bothered by something others see an issue. I just mainly think that this statement is a bit iffy at best and a blunder at worst. -
@Ivotas I was aiming for a little less bitterness and a tad more "everyone's got their own things they look for in terms continuity and different thresholds for what they're willing to find their own explanation for." But yeah, plot holes can be subjective sometimes and it can feel weird when the crowd doesn't seem to agree with what you do or don't think is one.
It's no skin off my nose if you don't accept my interpretation of this scene, it just seemed like an interesting enough case to argue how I saw it.
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@Captain-M
Oh, it wasn't meant to sound bitter. I just have this more blunt tone most of the time, which I comes across differently in written form than when actually saying things in person. Don't worry too much about it mate. -
Thank you! Yeah, just as I thought. It's missing a 全員 which means he's just as well saying 'we've gotta line-up of the old and new now'.
It's not necessarily as blatantly erroneous as it seems. There's wiggleroom.
Also....let's say there wasn't. Did Mingo know that Teach betrayed at that point? It would make just as much sense for him to assume Teach was involved elsewhere. That is, unless there was a throwaway line I'm forgetting somewhere.
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For convenience, I'll post the timeline about when each Warlord joined in relation to the present:
At least 17 years ago: Crocodile. He was said to have joined in his twenties (SBS 78) and he is currently 46. The exact date isn't clear, but we know Crocodile was already a Arabasta hero when he was 30.
13 years ago: Hancock. Became a Warlord at 18, after her first campaign.
At least 12 years ago: Moria. His Vivre Card says he was already a Warlord when he met Hogback. This is the minimum. Worth noting that he already had a 320 million bounty when he fought Kaidou just one year after Roger's execution, so he could very well predate Crocodile.
11 years ago: Jinbe. See flashback.
10 years ago: Doflamingo. Blackmailed his way into the group.
We don't know Mihawk and Kuma 's joining dates, but we do know Kuma was still with the Revolutionaries 12 years ago (Luffy's flashback).
3-5 years ago: Ace gets invited, but refuses. The implication here is that an unknown character gave up the title for whatever reason. It also means either Kuma or Mihawk replaced this one.
2 years ago: Blackbeard, replacing Crocodile. We all saw it.
Law, Weevil and Buggy joined in the timeskip, replacing Jinbe, Moria and Blackbeard.
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@Greg said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
There's wiggleroom
The Japanese language sometimes seems like it is specifically designed to be as vague as possible. Give nothing away and always leave a way out.
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@wolfwood
There was a trial on yakuza dealings in the US where they had a voice recording of the JP fellow agreeing to an illegal deal with 'hai' (yes).The defense successfully argued that saying 'hai' doesn't necessarily mean 'yes' as it does in English. It can mean:
"I'm listening to what you said and confirming that I hear you, but not necessarily agreeing with what you say."
....successfully argued.
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In the "for you" tab, I seen the tweet about Brook's fart sfx and someone asked how did Greg find out that info lol.
Then I seen that a whole ep leaked. I don't remember that happening before. In reference to leak culture, Henry said this
"If it gets leaked near the release date though, I think it’s likely someone who was tasked with adding subtitles, delivering it to a network, prep it to be officially uploaded, etc. Something like that. They betray the trust given to them & ruin it for everyone".Oh yeah source - https://twitter.com/henry_thurlow/status/1619279481805611008
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@Greg said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
Thank you! Yeah, just as I thought. It's missing a 全員 which means he's just as well saying 'we've gotta line-up of the old and new now'.
That's how I read it at first too, when I was finally able to understand the Japanese original. But the thing is that this kind of reading just has less oomph to it then them all being there.
It's not necessarily as blatantly erroneous as it seems. There's wiggleroom.
There's absolutely wiggleroom I agree. Just feel that if we wiggle it my way (here's a thing I never thought I'd say on a public forum) it has a bit more oomph to it.
Also....let's say there wasn't. Did Mingo know that Teach betrayed at that point? It would make just as much sense for him to assume Teach was involved elsewhere. That is, unless there was a throwaway line I'm forgetting somewhere.
Seeing that Moria singled out Kuma to be the only Warlord who actually works for the WG (well that statement has aged like milk) I don't think any Warlord has to assume that one of their peers is loyal or not matters much here.
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@Ivotas But what I'm saying is, did Doflamingo know at that very moment that BB wasn't present at MF? Sure, he wasn't at the lineup, but is it possible he could just as easily have assumed BB was doing something else at MF?
There might have been a scene of them acknowledging where and what BB was doing and in that case, sure, there's less wiggle room, but if not, it's a pretty strong case.
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@Greg said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
@Ivotas But what I'm saying is, did Doflamingo know at that very moment that BB wasn't present at MF? Sure, he wasn't at the lineup, but is it possible he could just as easily have assumed BB was doing something else at MF?
I guess it's a classic case of Schrödingers Teach where Doflamingo could and could not have known. Of course it's just my assumption but I would figure that an information broker such as him would have picked up on the Marines making a big deal out of Blackbeard being nowhere to be found at MF. That and the entire "why is he not at the starting line up even though everyone else of us is as little as we like to follow suit" thing makes me lean towards the he knew side.
There might have been a scene of them acknowledging where and what BB was doing and in that case, sure, there's less wiggle room, but if not, it's a pretty strong case.
I get what you mean, but I think that Joker would be in the loop one way or the other. Also considering the entire framing of the scene, where two fallen former Warlords appear at a battle of this magnitude it's fair game to assume that he would say something with are bit more weight to it. I think that "now some Warlords past and present have gathered" just doesn't hit as well as "now all Warlords past and present have gathered" considering the events unfolding. Just a personal feeling when comparing the two.
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@Cockycent said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
In the "for you" tab, I seen the tweet about Brook's fart sfx and someone asked how did Greg find out that info lol.
Then I seen that a whole ep leaked. I don't remember that happening before. In reference to leak culture, Henry said this
"If it gets leaked near the release date though, I think it’s likely someone who was tasked with adding subtitles, delivering it to a network, prep it to be officially uploaded, etc. Something like that. They betray the trust given to them & ruin it for everyone".Oh yeah source - https://twitter.com/henry_thurlow/status/1619279481805611008
Leak culture is a shame etc. and I'll never say it's something that should happen because, in a perfect scenario, it shouldn't. But this is the real world so unless those companies set up real repercussions for those actions, nothing will change so it's no use getting worked up over (not that you are, just in general).
I mean....what he described is more or less how the chaps leak.
I've never cared about how people enjoy leaks in their own living space. That's their own business. It's when people propagate it publicly and with audiences for their own gain that it's gross af. But if the companies aren't going to look to make cases against it on a regular basis, psh, sure, it's gonna happen. Mazel tov ^o^
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This week's chapter is a pretty strong evidence of Oda's current scribbly art that was a topic of this thread a couple days ago.
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Was it ever confirmed that Weevil was the warlord that cut off Zs arm?
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While Zephyr's existence seems to be canon, where his canon events cease to exist are up for debate.
As such, it's hard to say whether or not the invitation of that warlord even occurred or not, or that it was a canon character and not simply a convenience for the narrative, which is what I believe it was.
That said, while it hasn't been confirmed, if the pirate was telling the truth about having a family, all signs point to Weevil, unless Buggy was having one of his failing upward streaks and has a secret family.
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@All-Fiction the bottom right of the cover page is downright awful
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How is Oda gonna handle all these traveling companions, there’s like a dozen of them this arc?
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@SirCaesar classically stars were considered to be the luminous dots seen in the night sky, that's why various cultures called, what we now call planets, stars.
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Nope!
If we're going to argue in hindsight about what it should be for accuracy, it should be 'The Five Elder Heavenly Bodies'. That is the most accurate translation.
It's also a mouthful.
In Japanese you have
惑星>wakusei>planet
and
恒星>kousei>star (fixed)But both of these contain the kanji 星 that we commonly translate as 'star'. Although I can't speak on the origins of the kanji being used in both (as well as other heavenly objects), my bet would be that the overarching theme is that they appear as luminous points in the night sky while the preceding kanji determines what kind of object it actually is.
Certain characters in anime/manga who are attempting to be poetic or dramatic may refer to a planet as a 'hoshi' but it's still wrong according the language and only suggests the image of a bright object in the universe.
If we're to refer to a star as the English star, then 'hoshi' is most commonly used in Japanese however since the term 'hoshi' is used/understood as meaning both, it fits more with the term 'heavenly body' in which case, it's accurate in both English and Japanese.
My bet is that Oda could easily have intended it to be our 'planet' but even so, without 'wakusei' the most accurate representation would be 'Heavenly Body'.
In that sense, when a melancholy character wistfully calls their planet a 'hoshi', what's a translator to do?
Did the author intend the hoshi to make a planet analogous to a star because it represents shining hope to them? Were they being sarcastic and suggesting it's lost it's sheen? Were they just....wrong?
If you have someone being poetic or highfalutin, then utilizing 'star' even though it's 'wrong' is still the best choice.
Funny we were just talking about ambiguity because here it is once again ^o^
I have no allegiance to 'Elder Stars' other than it's what it has been but I mean....so was Raftel ^O^ So who cares!
The Five Elder Stars
It sounds ancient, poetic, and holier-than-thou. If Saturn's naming is a theme, then it's also technically wrong. But so is literally every soppy antagonist speaking woefully about their loss of hope in civilization in every anime.The Five Elder Planets
Perhaps what Oda intended literally but maybe not poetically. It does carry an eldritch horror theme which is bonus points.The Five Elder Heavenly Bodies
The most 'correct' term maybe and what it 'should' be but also a disgusting mouthful.The only other option as close to being 'right' as Heavenly Bodies would be 'The Five Elder Spheres' and that's almost as funny as saying 'Dragon Balls' except even more gross.
Thematically? Stars seems to fit with how Japanese language (incorrectly) refers to planets in a poetic fashion. There are no 'wrong' choices among these, just ones that are better than others for reasons of brevity, flow, and theme.
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One of the Five Elder Balls, Jerry Garcia Saturn.
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I rather enjoyed Artur's deep dive into the Greek/Roman roots of the planet's names, as well as the Japanese interpretations of them. Perhaps it's more obvious what Imu represents than we once thought....
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I said this in the chapter thread and I'll say it again here, sometimes Oda uses reference names just because he wants something in his story to share a name with something he thinks is cool in real life. Not because he's trying to recreate the mythology behind the gods we named the planets for 1:1.
We can feel fairly sure the rest of the Elders will follow the planet theme for their given names. I'd say it's fairly likely they'll all have rockstar-themed family names as well, but I'm not scouring Jerry Garcia's wikipedia page for clues about Saturn's personality/abilities/future story role. Maybe there will be some symbolism to find in the planets and the gods they're named for later, but maybe not. Either way, the overconfidence to call Imu's identity and role "solved" just from what we've seen so far is baffling to me.
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If you're just learning about Greek Mythology for the first time then I recommend the guy who runs this channel:
Dude knows his stuff and is entertaining. While the above vid is a Norse one he has a bunch of Greek ones as well.
There's very little to get excited about the god-naming at this point aside from existing weapon-related conjecture (because there's no standard to it) aside from one aspect. It suggests that civilizations from only the moon might just be the beginning.
There have been a lot of question marks in my mind re: the relationships between diff. cultures and what could have caused them to be antagonistic towards each other.
If we go just beyond the moon, things might become more clear.
But yeah, names are cute
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@Cyan-D-Funk In a couple weeks we'll see if he's truly balling. Glad to see Oda didn't drop the old balls.
On a less smooth brained note I highly agree with Greg's recommendation of channel. Great entry point. I'd say checking out Overly Sarcastic Productions' newer retellings of fables is a good way to continue, since those often bring up interesting connections and contradictions with what we know of the stories. From there the deep dive awaits
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@G1Ravage said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
I rather enjoyed Artur's deep dive into the Greek/Roman roots of the planet's names, as well as the Japanese interpretations of them. Perhaps it's more obvious what Imu represents than we once thought....
I think Imu's been pretty obvious since the start. It's literally Umi (sea) backwards and the ultimate enemy of devil fruit users is the sea. People have also theorized for a long time about an enemy that could potentially control water - would make sense for the final big bad.
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Greg what does Vegapunk’s note at the beginning of chapter 1072 mean? Is it possible Jewelry Bonney is some sort of clone
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@Shiebs said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
Greg what does Vegapunk’s note at the beginning of chapter 1072 mean? Is it possible Jewelry Bonney is some sort of clone
It's the set up for the Stussy reveal, with Bonney being the red herring.
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@Ivotas said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
@Shiebs said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
Greg what does Vegapunk’s note at the beginning of chapter 1072 mean? Is it possible Jewelry Bonney is some sort of clone
It's the set up for the Stussy reveal, with Bonney being the red herring.
If they made Stussy isn’t it possible they made other clones too?
Especially if the Rocks Pirates are supposed to come back
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@Shiebs said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
@Ivotas said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
@Shiebs said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
Greg what does Vegapunk’s note at the beginning of chapter 1072 mean? Is it possible Jewelry Bonney is some sort of clone
It's the set up for the Stussy reveal, with Bonney being the red herring.
If they made Stussy isn’t it possible they made other clones too?
Especially if the Rocks Pirates are supposed to come back
I merely answered your question. The subject you are bringin up now is a different discussion, which I would answer with a "yes, of course there will be others". Not only does the first clone mean the only clone, but we also see with the Pacifista, the Seraphim and the Germa69 troops, that there is definitely more going on.
As far as Bonney is concerned, I'm leaning towards the not a clone side because her entire plotline with Kuma has enough elements as it is. We don't need her to now be a clone rather than Kuma's actual child.
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@Ivotas said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
@Shiebs said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
@Ivotas said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
@Shiebs said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
Greg what does Vegapunk’s note at the beginning of chapter 1072 mean? Is it possible Jewelry Bonney is some sort of clone
It's the set up for the Stussy reveal, with Bonney being the red herring.
If they made Stussy isn’t it possible they made other clones too?
Especially if the Rocks Pirates are supposed to come back
I merely answered your question. The subject you are bringin up now is a different discussion, which I would answer with a "yes, of course there will be others". Not only does the first clone mean the only clone, but we also see with the Pacifista, the Seraphim and the Germa69 troops, that there is definitely more going on.
As far as Bonney is concerned, I'm leaning towards the not a clone side because her entire plotline with Kuma has enough elements as it is. We don't need her to now be a clone rather than Kuma's actual child.
I just think it’s possible Bonney is a clone too and that the text was talking about her but I guess we’ll see, she’s about to touch Kuma’s memories so we’ll soon be seeing a sad backstory that will reveal all to us so I doubt we’ll have to wait long
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@Shiebs said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
@Ivotas said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
@Shiebs said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
@Ivotas said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
@Shiebs said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
Greg what does Vegapunk’s note at the beginning of chapter 1072 mean? Is it possible Jewelry Bonney is some sort of clone
It's the set up for the Stussy reveal, with Bonney being the red herring.
If they made Stussy isn’t it possible they made other clones too?
Especially if the Rocks Pirates are supposed to come back
I merely answered your question. The subject you are bringin up now is a different discussion, which I would answer with a "yes, of course there will be others". Not only does the first clone mean the only clone, but we also see with the Pacifista, the Seraphim and the Germa69 troops, that there is definitely more going on.
As far as Bonney is concerned, I'm leaning towards the not a clone side because her entire plotline with Kuma has enough elements as it is. We don't need her to now be a clone rather than Kuma's actual child.
I just think it’s possible Bonney is a clone too and that the text was talking about her but I guess we’ll see, she’s about to touch Kuma’s memories so we’ll soon be seeing a sad backstory that will reveal all to us so I doubt we’ll have to wait long
Well, it's entirely possible with Oda's clusterfuck style writing these days, where has too throw in as many varuables as possible rather than having just a few which are perfectly capable of carrying a plotline.
