@Robby thanks robby, hope you get to watch it soon if you haven't already. It's a cinema must catch IMO.
Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !
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Can't be better than the second movie
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Well, the second movie didn't have many pointless cameo appearances for fan service, so take that for what it's worth.
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I generally like the small stakes movies the most. The only large scale movie that sorta worked for me was the island in the sky one, all the other felt hollow and made without any real OP feel. Like that let's put every single cool character in one action movie one, talk about soulless.
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Yeah, that's why Dead End Adventure is one of my favorites.
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The first half of Dead End Adventure is pure One Piece. Only the second half didn't stay on that level but it wasn't inherently bad.
And for what it's worth, I think Gold was ok since it had the "let's have a fun adventure in a casino island thingie". Had Dead End Adventure feeling here and there. And the Strawhats planning for Luffy to screw up stealth all along just makes all kinds of sense.
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@Ivotas said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
Well, the second movie didn't have many pointless cameo appearances for fan service, so take that for what it's worth.
Film Red doesn't have this problem as much as Stampede, the side cast is used better.
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Yeah dead end adventure would've been the best if it stayed longer on the zany and colorful race, instead of spending so long on that dark dreary second half
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@JustaGuy said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
@Ivotas said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
Well, the second movie didn't have many pointless cameo appearances for fan service, so take that for what it's worth.
Film Red doesn't have this problem as much as Stampede, the side cast is used better.
True, but that's not much of an accomplishment since it's physically impossible to outdo Stampede on this front.
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Man, I really want a movie that's full on the first half of dead end adventure. The opening to the film is still one of my favourites yet.
Sadly that'll never happen with how the movies are now. -
only movie worth watching is movie 6
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I could never make it thru that one. I gave another try last weekend but by the time Usopp fell on that frog and it started turning into one of those oh no the gang turns against each other plots my interest was waning and my GF had fallen asleep. I've made peace with never seeing exactly how the no doubt sad backstory of the baron ties into his crew dying.
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Fuck movie 6, seriously! The crew turning on each other just felt absolutely out of character and not natural at all. And age didn't help that at all as Water Seven showed what deep feelings of disappointment in oneself are required to actually create a fall out between the Strawhats. And while the backstory of Baron Omatsuri and his crew is actually a good one on paper, there's just something in that movie that renders it me unable to actually get an emotional reaction out of it. I can get why others like it though but to me, I just want to punch a wall everytime I hear someone talk about that movie being the best.
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What the shit are you guys talking about? To this day movie 6 is the only one worth talking about. I'm pretty sure it's the only one with any real artistic merit.
Best villain by far.
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Dunno, personally i never jelled with those the gang breaks up because of outside manipulation plots in general. And it doesn't help that it's got that butt ugly 3D adjacent art style.
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Just out of curiosity tho, the flower is the real villain isn't he? With Robin looking for that lily, and everyone clearly being plant zombos it just seems like it is setting up for one of those gasp they were already dead moment where the real baddy shows up
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rewatched Strong World a few days ago and I scores a lot of the OP feels. The jokes aren't that flanderized and they have great timing; the action of the opening sequel is just awesome, awe strucking and raising the scales with a fine progression. Such a shame that the second part is so weakly mended. No decent finisher, and the pacing drags a bit toward the end.
Z is such a boring movie, despite the cool antagonist and his character arc.
Just wish they could actually USE the crew in a movie. Robin, Franky and Brook do not deserve being relegated to secondary roles time after time.
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Latest bonus theater item allows fans to watch a creditless version of the end roll. This has cleared up the newspaper making it easier to read and the fate of a character is supposedly revealed.
If Oda intends the movie events to be canon (which is absurd despite that interview) then I still say he can do whatever he wants but...his handling of fates as of late does make me wonder and that's a good thing.
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@Ivotas said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
Fuck movie 6, seriously! The crew turning on each other just felt absolutely out of character and not natural at all.
I totally do not know what you mean. Everything is super natural like for example this masterpiece of natural dialogue:
Usopp: behaves cowardly as usual
Nami: I genuinely hate you!
Forum user Bartholemew Bear passed away in a very moving and touching way. I, ARTEMlS, therefore carry on the Will of DArth for good unto its final fulfilment.
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@Greg said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
Latest bonus theater item allows fans to watch a creditless version of the end roll. This has cleared up the newspaper making it easier to read and the fate of a character is supposedly revealed.
If Oda intends the movie events to be canon (which is absurd despite that interview) then I still say he can do whatever he wants but...his handling of fates as of late does make me wonder and that's a good thing.
http://misiontokyo.com/noticias/bombazo-entrevista-exclusiva-al-staff-de-one-piece-film-red
"Will the movie follow the series or is it a standalone story?
They are independent stories because Eiichiro Oda is only in charge of the script of the series, this makes the films are different, independent stories, outside the usual continuity of the series."Shinji Shimizu (A big producer for the anime from the start and movie projects at Toei and friend of Oda's) says this in a interview before the movie came out. I assume if the movie was canon they would have highlighted/advertised it as such to set it even further apart from the other Film movies then they already had.
I know Goro (the director) said something that made people think he's saying it is canon, but I wonder if there's something lost in the interview, like how the recent game producer said this about Odyssey.
"Where does the story in One Piece Odyssey fit into the main timeline? Is it canon?
The story has been in development for a long time, taking place around the Whole Cake Island arc where the Straw Hat Crew are still fighting Big Mom. The story itself is not canon, but it does fit within the story of ONE PIECE itself so fans won’t need to worry about discrepancies."
Like the story isn't canon but if it did it would fit somewhere just fine or there' just not any direct contradictions it might as well.
Maybe Oda will address something in SBS in the next volume as Uta has that shot in 1055.
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@ARTEMlS i suppose what is unnatural is the strawhats turning into pouty children because some dong mildly prods them. Like compare that to what it took to cause a real rift in W7 and it seems pretty OOC for them to be this easily broken apart. I mean baring any sort of plant based grudge magic.
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Movie 6 gets the benefit of being the only one willing to let a director actually direct and be its own thing and its own art style. So its a change of pace and a breath of fresh air ithat stands unique and alone among the dozens of OP movies and shorts n that regard. But the actual story itself is whatever.
But then my estimation of Hosoda as a director has fallen a lot in recent years. I liked Summer Wars and LOVED Wolf Children, but everything he's done since has been a mess or a straight up repeat of his older work, so I used to give him a bit more credit as a visionary must-see artist but that has passed now.
Like Lupin III gets a new movie more or less annually and they change the art style every single time (though they sort of settled into a consistent look for Blue Jacket) so the novelty of one of its movies looking really unusual or doing something different than the norm isn't nearly as strong and doesn't single handedly elevate any given outing.
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Justaguy, dropping the quotes doesn't do/add much since literally any movie can take place in the story...if Oda changes his mind on a whim.
There's an interview with a member of the staff who stated that it is canon.
Not saying I agree, just that plopping down the quotes without context and understanding doesn't help.
And, yes, there are indeed problematic aspects of the film so it's not really that cut and dry.
Not to mention, the supposed cameo isn't confirmed (or at least not as far as I've heard).
It's worth discussing and worth bringing up the points, but like most FILMs, it exists in the same interstitial non-canon state as the others while leaving its foot awkwardly and stubbornly in the door at all times.
For now, I believe past events occured. Present events....
Either they:
- Occured as in the movie (problematic)
- Occured but not exactly as in the movie.
- Did not occur but past events did.
Thanks Thanos.clap clap ï¼ï¼µï¼¬ï¼´ï¼©ï¼¶ï¼¥ï¼²ï¼³ï¼¥
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Do you think we’ll get to see Rocks, Wang Zhi or Silver Axe soon?
Also when will we learn more about the Rocky Port incident
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@ARTEMlS said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
@Ivotas said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
Fuck movie 6, seriously! The crew turning on each other just felt absolutely out of character and not natural at all.
I totally do not know what you mean. Everything is super natural like for example this masterpiece of natural dialogue:
Usopp: behaves cowardly as usual
Nami: I genuinely hate you!
Unless you are being sarcastic I see neither see how this a natural thing for Nami to say nor how this is a masterpiece of a dialog.
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Do you guys think Shanks will get one more officer? Black Beard has 10 Titanic Titans but Shanks only has 9 officers
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@Shiebs Mihawk will join Shanks
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@Shiebs Apparently, Monster counts as a officer.
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Movie 1 is too dated and small even for my taste
Movie 2 has those warm colors, and a silly plot that feels like it is almost something Oda would dream up, like that whole they stole our clothes so now they have to rent a complete wedding outfit bit feels like it came from someone who cracked the code but can't entirely recreate classic Odaness. But close enough.
Movie 3 i just don't care about these critters enough to spend a whole movie on it. It's probably fine for what it is but i'm not into it.
Movie 4 is the most uneven one. The beginning is so good, and the last half is so mediocre. Like it isn't even bad, it just meanders on about the old man and his coal pan and the lost siblings yadda yadda yadda. Damn bad ending robbing me of all those cool rival designs
Movie 5 should on paper be good, i mean possessed zombie marines sounds like it should be good for a plot. But it's too much Zoro and rival focus to the detriment of everything else.
Movie 6 is y'know ugly as sin, and the plot points are just not a bad fit for me.
Movie 7 has a good ending song. That's about it. Shit villain, shit premise
Movie 8 and 9 aren't movies to me as much as, i dunno clipshows? But the chopper one still hits me right in the feels.
Movie 10 has a good feel to it. You can tell whoever made it knew the characters well. The kidnap a strawhat woman plot is so played out tho.
Movie 11 is all hype and cool designs, but so shallow and without feeling
Movie 12 is so alright it's OK.
Movie 13 is a glorified toy commercial.
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If anyone watched REDLINE, I honestly think a One Piece movie done in that style/format would be fantastic
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@wolfwood said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
Movie 11 is all hype and cool designs, but so shallow and without feeling
I really like Zephyr and he's easily my favorite movie character. But if I did deeper I find myself asking why? That dude suffers pretty much from the same thing Oden suffered, which is hype from other characters. Only that with Oden who actually ended delivering in the end I felt Zephyr to actually be lacking on the field a bit. Yes, his backstory about what status he has in the Marine is fantastic. And a rogue Ex-Marine who's lost faith in the system and just wants to make the world burn might have been done to death, but it's also the material for a good vengance trip story. But in the end the premise is much better than what the character turned out to be. He's not a bad character. But backstory and premise does more of the heavy lifting than he himself.
Movie 12 is so alright it's OK.
I think Gold is the closest we got to the first half of the Dead End Adventure. The only difference being that the setting of huge casino city boat/island is less pirat-themed that an actual pirate race. But the premise of having fun at a new location is there.
Movie 13 is a glorified toy commercial.
That movie is Toei, Shueisha and every merch producers wet dream. And nothing else.
@zeltrax225 said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
If anyone watched REDLINE, I honestly think a One Piece movie done in that style/format would be fantastic
What's that? That name doesn't ring a bell at all.
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@Greg Manga fans: "But how could this have happened if Luffy was in X and Zoro was in Y at the time Stampede happened?"
Crying face meme.
Comic fans: "Yes Batman was fighting and defeating Bane in Gotham City after a long holiday with Catwoman where the camera was fixed entirely on him at the same time he was defeating the Legion of Doom (which also included Bane) in Space and the universe got consumed at the exact same time. What's the issue?"
Chad face meme.
Dragon Ball fans: "Wait, you guys have continuity?"
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@wolfwood said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
Movie 10 has a good feel to it. You can tell whoever made it knew the characters well. The kidnap a strawhat woman plot is so played out tho.
Maybe i've misremembered because it's been so long, but wasn't movie 10 the only movie that Oda himself wrote? That's why Shiki is a canon character to the manga, the same as the promotional chapter 0 which sets up for the movie but also shows us various events from 20 years ago that were hinted at/implied in the manga. Also it's the only movie that can actually work into the canon without issue, being placed between Thriller Bark and Saboady.
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@black-leg-jex
Shiki is only a canon character because of chapter 0, not because of the movie, which isn't canon. Oda has also created other characters which made their way into other media such as Daddy Masterson (Loguetown novel), Patrick Redfield (Unlimited World Red) or Chameleone (One Piece Premier Show) to name just a few from the top of my head. None of them is canon though.What interests me more about things that could turn out about things that could be canon though is the Dyna Stones from Film Z. They made their first appearance there but then made it into One Piece World Seeker which supposedly had some story involvement by Oda.
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@Greg do you think the 1cm height difference between Shanks and Mihawk, Zoro and sanji and King and Queen means anything or is it just a coincidence?
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@ea77 said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
@Greg Manga fans: "But how could this have happened if Luffy was in X and Zoro was in Y at the time Stampede happened?"
Crying face meme.
Comic fans: "Yes Batman was fighting and defeating Bane in Gotham City after a long holiday with Catwoman where the camera was fixed entirely on him at the same time he was defeating the Legion of Doom (which also included Bane) in Space and the universe got consumed at the exact same time. What's the issue?"
Chad face meme.
Dragon Ball fans: "Wait, you guys have continuity?"
What One Piece really needs is Whitebeard from another universe to come in, smash his way in and change space/time/history of the main timeline as we know it.
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@JustaGuy Weevil punched the universe so hard Ace came back to life
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@ea77 said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
@JustaGuy Weevil punched the universe so hard Ace came back to life
He punched it so hard he actually made himself Whitebeard son.
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@Ivotas Oh i should have been clearer. It's not One Piece related at all but is a movie made by Madhouse a long time ago. Didn't see much success but gained a cult following for well, being so fucking good.
A one piece film done that way similar to dead end's early parts but expanded would be so over the top and fun, something like Stampede with a huge cast but without all the Bullet stuff and unnecessary fan pandering.
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@Ivotas said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
@black-leg-jex
Shiki is only a canon character because of chapter 0, not because of the movie, which isn't canon. Oda has also created other characters which made their way into other media such as Daddy Masterson (Loguetown novel), Patrick Redfield (Unlimited World Red) or Chameleone (One Piece Premier Show) to name just a few from the top of my head. None of them is canon though.There's a big difference between Shiki and all of these though, and that is that Shiki is canon and they aren't. Even if we exclude chapter 0 he was namedropped before then and brought up again later with Rocks.
Besides, I never said that Strong World was canon, just that it's the only movie that COULD be canon because it has a logical place in the timeline, doesn't contradict anything in the main series at all and chapter 0 sets up for it. If we say chapter 0 is canon but the movie isn't then that just means Shiki and his floating islands are still out there somewhere waiting for a chance to attack the East Blue (unless we make up an off-screen defeat by someone else).
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@black-leg-jex said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
@Ivotas said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
@black-leg-jex
Shiki is only a canon character because of chapter 0, not because of the movie, which isn't canon. Oda has also created other characters which made their way into other media such as Daddy Masterson (Loguetown novel), Patrick Redfield (Unlimited World Red) or Chameleone (One Piece Premier Show) to name just a few from the top of my head. None of them is canon though.There's a big difference between Shiki and all of these though, and that is that Shiki is canon and they aren't. Even if we exclude chapter 0 he was namedropped before then and brought up again later with Rocks.
And my point was that the movie itself does not make Shiki a canon character. The manga appearance does. Be it chapter 0 or the various name drops.
Besides, I never said that Strong World was canon, just that it's the only movie that COULD be canon because it has a logical place in the timeline, doesn't contradict anything in the main series at all and chapter 0 sets up for it. If we say chapter 0 is canon but the movie isn't then that just means Shiki and his floating islands are still out there somewhere waiting for a chance to attack the East Blue (unless we make up an off-screen defeat by someone else).
I don't remember the details anymore as I really didn't like the movie but I was sure that there were some aspects that either way made a placement anywhere in the manga timeline difficult without contradicting something. Can't for the life of me remember what it was though. Was it Zoro's injury?
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@zeltrax225 I would absolutely love this. Give Takeshi Koike the reigns and set him loose in his signature style with no apparent limits like movie 6 did for Hasoda. I'm always saying that OP movies are at their best not when they're trying to imitate the main story as a bigger and more bombastic (and far better animated) filler arc, but when they put the characters somewhere with a style and tone the canon story doesn't have room for.
In the same vein, I'd love to see what Hiroyuki Imaishi would do with a One Piece project. Gurren Lagann cemented my highschool weeaboo phase when it was starting, Promare proved he can take a story from humans fighting humans to planet-size mechs in a feature-length runtime, and Cyberpunk Edgerunners has just shown he can be adaptable to the tone and themes of existing universes without losing that iconic look and vibe. This movie ends with the Sunny turning into a mecha that's at minimum skyscraper-size and probably in space., and the more I talk about it the more I want it.
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@Ivotas said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
@black-leg-jex said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
@Ivotas said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
@black-leg-jex
Shiki is only a canon character because of chapter 0, not because of the movie, which isn't canon. Oda has also created other characters which made their way into other media such as Daddy Masterson (Loguetown novel), Patrick Redfield (Unlimited World Red) or Chameleone (One Piece Premier Show) to name just a few from the top of my head. None of them is canon though.There's a big difference between Shiki and all of these though, and that is that Shiki is canon and they aren't. Even if we exclude chapter 0 he was namedropped before then and brought up again later with Rocks.
And my point was that the movie itself does not make Shiki a canon character. The manga appearance does. Be it chapter 0 or the various name drops.
Besides, I never said that Strong World was canon, just that it's the only movie that COULD be canon because it has a logical place in the timeline, doesn't contradict anything in the main series at all and chapter 0 sets up for it. If we say chapter 0 is canon but the movie isn't then that just means Shiki and his floating islands are still out there somewhere waiting for a chance to attack the East Blue (unless we make up an off-screen defeat by someone else).
I don't remember the details anymore as I really didn't like the movie but I was sure that there were some aspects that either way made a placement anywhere in the manga timeline difficult without contradicting something. Can't for the life of me remember what it was though. Was it Zoro's injury?
Zoro's injury is probably the closest thing that could make it uncanon but that's only because it's simply never brought up at all throughout the movie. I guess the other would be that Brook obviously fights with them in Strong World but then in the Flying Fishman fight in the manga I think he says its his first fight as a Straw Hat.
The only other argument I could see is Luffy being able to beat a rival of Roger this early in the adventure but like... that's a pretty weak argument imo. Everything else fits pretty neatly into the time gap between Thriller Bark and Saboady.
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@Captain-M so like some sort of alternate universe OP?
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@wolfwood Is that not how we view most of the movies anyway? There's a presumption that no matter how big the robots get and how stratospheric the final battlefield, things will return to a just normal enough state to maintain plausible deniability about squeezing into the main timeline, just like any other end of film escalation.
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@black-leg-jex said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
@Ivotas said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
@black-leg-jex said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
@Ivotas said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
@black-leg-jex
Shiki is only a canon character because of chapter 0, not because of the movie, which isn't canon. Oda has also created other characters which made their way into other media such as Daddy Masterson (Loguetown novel), Patrick Redfield (Unlimited World Red) or Chameleone (One Piece Premier Show) to name just a few from the top of my head. None of them is canon though.There's a big difference between Shiki and all of these though, and that is that Shiki is canon and they aren't. Even if we exclude chapter 0 he was namedropped before then and brought up again later with Rocks.
And my point was that the movie itself does not make Shiki a canon character. The manga appearance does. Be it chapter 0 or the various name drops.
Besides, I never said that Strong World was canon, just that it's the only movie that COULD be canon because it has a logical place in the timeline, doesn't contradict anything in the main series at all and chapter 0 sets up for it. If we say chapter 0 is canon but the movie isn't then that just means Shiki and his floating islands are still out there somewhere waiting for a chance to attack the East Blue (unless we make up an off-screen defeat by someone else).
I don't remember the details anymore as I really didn't like the movie but I was sure that there were some aspects that either way made a placement anywhere in the manga timeline difficult without contradicting something. Can't for the life of me remember what it was though. Was it Zoro's injury?
Zoro's injury is probably the closest thing that could make it uncanon but that's only because it's simply never brought up at all throughout the movie. I guess the other would be that Brook obviously fights with them in Strong World but then in the Flying Fishman fight in the manga I think he says its his first fight as a Straw Hat.
That's exactly the point, it doesn't get brought up. It was a big deal that he wasn't at full health in Sabaody so for him to have seemingly no handicap during Strong World doesn't really match.
And if Brook really said that it is his first fight as a member of the Strawhats (my memory is a bit fuzzy on that) then it would not be just a small footnote but an actual contradiction. If the manga says it's the first time then that's what it is.
The only other argument I could see is Luffy being able to beat a rival of Roger this early in the adventure but like... that's a pretty weak argument imo. Everything else fits pretty neatly into the time gap between Thriller Bark and Saboady.
It's not a weak argument at all. But it's not something that can be held up against the in between TB and SA placement exclusively. Luffy only now (about 500 chapters and more than a decade after Strong World aired) defeated an Emperor. And he had tolearn Haki, develop Gear 4th, learn Ryuou and then awetcon his DF ability to get here. He shouldn't have been in Shiki's league. But as I said, that makes an entire pre-timeskip placement weird not just TB~SA. Still it evidentally is pre-timeskip Strawhats. So the only way to work is for not to belong in the canon timeline at all.
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@Ivotas said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
It's not a weak argument at all. But it's not something that can be held up against the in between TB and SA placement exclusively. Luffy only now (about 500 chapters and more than a decade after Strong World aired) defeated an Emperor. And he had tolearn Haki, develop Gear 4th, learn Ryuou and then awetcon his DF ability to get here. He shouldn't have been in Shiki's league. But as I said, that makes an entire pre-timeskip placement weird not just TB~SA. Still it evidentally is pre-timeskip Strawhats. So the only way to work is for not to belong in the canon timeline at all.
Nah this argument is weak simply on the basis that Luffy beat Crocodile as early as Alabasta, a Warlord who was shown to be on par with Doflamingo during Marineford and supposedly had Haki at the time and possibly an Awakened Devil Fruit. But Luffy beat him pre-Gears. So him being able to beat an old rival of Roger's who may have weakened over the years during the pre-TS isn't far-fetched at all.
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@black-leg-jex said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
@Ivotas said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
It's not a weak argument at all. But it's not something that can be held up against the in between TB and SA placement exclusively. Luffy only now (about 500 chapters and more than a decade after Strong World aired) defeated an Emperor. And he had tolearn Haki, develop Gear 4th, learn Ryuou and then awetcon his DF ability to get here. He shouldn't have been in Shiki's league. But as I said, that makes an entire pre-timeskip placement weird not just TB~SA. Still it evidentally is pre-timeskip Strawhats. So the only way to work is for not to belong in the canon timeline at all.
Nah this argument is weak simply on the basis that Luffy beat Crocodile as early as Alabasta, a Warlord who was shown to be on par with Doflamingo during Marineford and supposedly had Haki at the time and possibly an Awakened Devil Fruit. But Luffy beat him pre-Gears. So him being able to beat an old rival of Roger's who may have weakened over the years during the pre-TS isn't far-fetched at all.
The flaws in that argument are two. 1) Shonen geezers usually have a tendency to be strong badasses who don't necessarily get weaker with age. In One Piece we even have characters like these in Newgate and Rayleigh. They might not be in their prime anymore but they were still at the top of the foodchain. 2) Shiki as an antagonist was set up as a rival of Roger who was lying in wait for 20 years making preparations for his big move. He wasn't portrayed as a geriatric old fart mourning the loss of the strenght he had in his prime. Oda himself spun the narrative that Luffy is taking on a badass legend, not the audience. Thus my point still stands.
As far as the Crocodile vs. Doflamingo argument is concerned, that one's flawed in more than one ways. For one we cannot use it as a comparison with the Shiki case because we're not talking about legend geezers here. Meaning it's a different premise. But that's not where the actual flaws in that argument lie. For what you claim to be the case you are implying three aspects to apply which are 1) Arabasta Croc is the same as Marineford Croc, 2) Marineford Doffy is the same as Dressrosa Doffy and 3) them being truly on par during Marineford. Let's proceed point by point.
For point #1. It's pretty much a Shonen trope by now that former main arc antagonists who come back at a later point as an anti-hero and team up with the protagonist, usually grow in strength too. Not necessarily as much as the main protagonist though. And it just so happens that we've only recently seen Croc return with a bounty almost twice as high as Katakuri. While I'm neither implying that bounties are a fail safe argument for power level wankery nor that Croc is stronger than Katakuri, we cannot ignore that this is Oda saying this dude is way stronger than before. Croc surely didn't change from his Arabasta self to his Cross Guild self overnight with the snap of a finger. It had to be a gradual growth. And he surely has grown between Arabasta and Marineford too, just as Luffy did.
For the time period between Arabasta and Marineford, one might say that while Luffy went through several adventures and life threatening battles, Croc remained stagnant in Impel Down. But that would also be flawed. I would like to use Mike Tyson's famous words for this, which unfortunally I'm roughly paraphrasing. He said that "you don't become weaker in jail". Meaning if you don't want to end up being somebody's bitch you have to toughen up. And Croc didn't seem to be the other Level 6 prisoners bitch. It's fair game to assume that he was stronger when escaping Impel Down than in back Arabasta (though nowhere near the level he is now).
About #2. Unlike Crocodile Doflamingo at Marineford didn't yet lose to the main protagonist. So one might say that the Shonen trope of him finding a new need to power up does not apply. And while this is certainly true, I would still say that a guy who surely got battle experiences during the Paramount War and who as a shadow broker surely has enemies he has to keep at bay definitely is someone who also moves forward rather than remaining stagnant. So it would be fair game to assume that pre- and post-timeskip Doffy are not exactly the same in terms of strenght.
About #3. Crocodile and Doflamingo didn't even seem to go full out during their confrontation at Marineford. Sure they traded some jabs at each other but it was far from them giving it their all for us to conclude that they were equal. Doffy might aswell have beaten Croc if it turned out to be a fight to the death. Or it might really have ended up in a draw. But what we saw is not enough for us to think that they were actually on par.
All in all I just find that Croc vs. Doffy argument to be a very flawed one. Both in itself and as something that actually applies for the Shiki discussion.
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Oh, we're talking movies? If I had to try and rank the ones I watched bazed on somehwat hazy memories, it'd probably go something like
Movie 6: Insert some Batman style caveat of "It's a good movie with OP characters in it, but not necessarily a "good OP movie"". I'm not crazy about the secondary characters but I like just how hard it leans into its weirdo creepy vibe by the end, and the Davy back Fight-esque fighting in the first half is fun too. It feels distinct, which is a huge plus for me.
Movie 7: I surprisingly enjoyed this one. It's very "slight", but feels intentionally so, like a breezy hangout comedy where the stakes aren't super extreme. The comedy bits mostly worked for me including the wimpy villain, and Sayaendou rips.
Movie 2: I remember this as a pretty fun time. Usopp sucking up skunk guys farts was disgusting. Thats all I got.
Movie 10: I remember this being OK?
GOLD: Closest thing to Classic Straw Hat Centric Island Adventure vibes in YEARS, is overall pretty fun, but falters by the end between increased cameos and an undercooked backstory for the villain. Also, the big climax revolving around...sabotaging the villains attempts to pay his WG taxes?? Felt really lame. Good use of Usopp though, between this and Stampede it feels to me like Oda shunted all his good Usopp ideas into movies at the expense of he manga.
Movie 4: I remember this being mostly fine, back half is definetely an unimaginative let down compared to the first, but I don't hate it.
Movie Z: Good idea, a few good character moments, but ultimately feels compromisedly shallow. The whole thing is about Z hating pirates so much that he's gonna nuke the GL, and in the end Luffy -who seems more self-absorbedly """"""MORALLY GREY (tm)"""""" than otherwise- doesn't really do anything to demonstrate why Z should change his mind. But then he does. Blah.
Movies 3 and 5: I barely remember these.
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@Daz said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
and Sayaendou rips.
Easily in the top five OP tracks
