Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !
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I sure hope he has the balls to disregard what is expected
I think this forum is kinda warping what exactly the "expected" scenario is
If you take the current manga at face value, the most straightforward interpretation is that we're in the middle of a standard final act 3 action showdown, with the heroes making their stand to take down the villains, and not that the heroes are about to take a massive L and that arc will go on for two more whole "acts" before it resolves. The latter notion comes from the assumption that the story needs to give the heroes an L and make the beast pirates bounce back, or that we need to take the fight to the Wano mainland, or that it needs to follow a Kabuki structure, but then the actual chapters are "look at the heroes making their promised dramatic stand at Kaido and actually landing hits on him and taking out one of his top subordinates"
(again, I fully expect the Beast Pirates to do some pushback and Kaido to enact some sort of ticking clock scenario, but not a full blown Loss + timeskip + scenery change + re-escalation of conflict scenario)
Oda keeping this as the final battle would be as "unexpected" as when the crew managed to save Robin before she got through the gates of justice. I remember some people insisting this would not happen, in order to set up Impel Down or Marineford. Or how some people insisted Doflamingo would escape Dressrosa and enact some master scheme. If the story is presenting something as the big final battle, odds are its the big final battle.
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Didn't the WG wanted the people to forget about Rocks?
Doesn't matter, you can't hide someone who is supposed to be imprisoned, from the world, while that person is becoming one of the four strongest pirates in the world.
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@Daz:
(again, I fully expect the Beast Pirates to do some pushback and Kaido to enact some sort of ticking clock scenario, but not a full blown Loss + timeskip + scenery change + re-escalation of conflict scenario)
I too think this is the final battle, thought some of the action will spill naturally into Wano. There won't be a total defeat of the Alliance and a second battle, just a "moment of darkness" in which defeat seems like a very real possibility, only for some unforeseen aid to arrive and help turn the tables.
What Oda is going to do is raise the threat of the enemy. For now, Kaido has been hurt, Big Mom was treated as a joke, the Beast Pirates were seen as ineffective, the Big Mom Pirates were left out of the conflict. All that is about to be reversed. Without threat, the big conflict would feel unsatisfying, so Oda is going to give the villains a turn to show what they are not pushovers.
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@Daz:
or that we need to take the fight to the Wano mainland,
It ain't no baseless perception, when you consider the following;
•Onigashima is too small for the several very destructive fighters in it, just like in Marineford, everyone would be fighting too close to each other, constantly interrumping one another.
•Tama, Hitetsu, Hiyori, O-tsuru, Onimaru, and maybe Holdem and Caribou will be involved once again for sure, and they all are in the mainland(unless Caribou had already escaped)
•The citizens of Wano, or at least The Flower Capital, not witnessing the fall of its dictator wouldn't be like One Piece at all.
•New Onigashima Project, pretty much hinted a "Party's over guys" scenario in Flower Capital.So, while not all of them would be required to move, half, or at least Calamities and Kaido would be about enough, it also goes perfectly along with Greg's ideas about Momo confronting his fear of high heights by giving Luffy a ride and a possible final round in top of Mt. Fuji.
And all of that goes without even considering that Kaido will do his own "BirdCage" and it doesn't make any sense doing it in Onigashima where most residents are his own army.
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The assumption of going back to the mainland is for good reason. Aside from Kaido explicitly saying he wants to terrorize the Flower Capital, there are other omens, like Momo in Ch. 955 leaving his sword behind with Hitetsu, or Hiyori's complete absence even after being brought up by Orochi and Kanjuro.
For Momo, I'm just simply expecting a payoff to all the training he's been doing throughout the arc. And for Hiyori, while Wano culture made the justification of it being fine for her to meet them after the big battle is over, I'd be very surprised if she doesn't show up while the war is ongoing.
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While I think most of the conflict will happen in Onigashima, some battles will reach the main land. Especially Kaido's battle, but I also think Kanjuro or Orochi will hunt Hiyori, and some of the 1v1 may reach the main land.
Wano predictions: There will be 5 acts; All Straw Hats will get fights, some in Act 4; Big Mom Pirates will arrive; Carrot will have her moment, but won't join; Yamato will be a Kouzuki samurai and Wano's Guardian; Shanks will visit Luffy in Act 5; Next arc is Mary Geoise.
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With both sanji and zoro wanting to go up there with luffy and kaidou as the new ancient giant, full SHs crew vs kaidou looks likely now. Would mirror the 10 blackbeard pirates vs WB.
But this would meen that nighmare luffy 2.0 is coming, yeah Moria is coming.
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Kaido's "ticking clock" scenario might even be what brings the battle to the mainland. And Orochi going after Hiyori is imo the only logical conclusion to what he still could do story purpose-wise in the very, very likely event that he is still alive.
And the more I think about it, I can really see Oda wanting to do the various 1v1's all in different parts of Wano, showcasing different weather and backdrops.
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Only Kaido (and maybe Orochi) really has to fall in front of Wano citizens. Luckily Kaido himsel can fly, making it simple for Oda to do a change of location without stopping the action
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Only Kaido (and maybe Orochi) really has to fall in front of Wano citizens. Luckily Kaido himself can himself can fly, making it simple for Oda to have a change of location without stopping the action
I think Act 3 will end with the Beast Pirates turning things around and seemingly destroying the Alliance. Content, Kaido flies off to the Flower Capital to begin the New Onigashima Project, and after escaping, the heroes head there to stop him, where Act 4, the true showdown, happens.
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Would still be interested in seeing Acts 4 and 5. Act 3 can end in failure. Act 4 can be the Ace flashback. Act 5… the finale?
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Would still be interested in seeing Acts 4 and 5. Act 3 can end in failure. Act 4 can be the Ace flashback. Act 5… the finale?
I believe Act 5 would be more the conclusion, wrapping everything up, and what not.
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@Johnny:
I think Act 3 will end with the Beast Pirates turning things around and seemingly destroying the Alliance. Content, Kaido flies off to the Flower Capital to begin the New Onigashima Project, and after escaping, the heroes head there to stop him, where Act 4, the true showdown, happens.
I don't think there's a "seemly loss" for the Alliance, but a situation where loss seems inevitable.
In other words, there won't be two battles with a pause in between. It will be a single battle, but one the heroes will seem to be losing when Act 3 ends.
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Would still be interested in seeing Acts 4 and 5. Act 3 can end in failure. Act 4 can be the Ace flashback. Act 5… the finale?
Act 5 is the epilogue. The battle ends in act 4.
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Fight will end as soon as the sun rises. Act 5 will be the big feast, joining of 3 crewmember and arrival of someone very important (my guess is on Vivi and Sabo).
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I thin act 3 will end with a loss for the alliance in that sense that the Beast Pirates will split up and change the battleground. The plan was to murder Kaido while drunken on Onigashima. The loss is him taking his forces and just flying away.
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I love the use of definitives related to act numbers.
It's like, "Oh, okay, Oda." ^O^
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I love the use of definitives related to act numbers.
It's like, "Oh, okay, Oda." ^O^
While you're here I have a question. Do you think Crocodile's secret/weakness is that he had his sex changed by Iva? You speak a lot about Oda not wanting to do what is expected and that's always seemed like the most obvious explanation for that particular interaction. Are there other options that we haven't thought of that might explain Iva's knowledge, or do you think it's the most popular theory? The face stitching is what gives me some hesitation, though I suppose it could just be a battle scar from Whitebeard.
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While you're here I have a question. Do you think Crocodile's secret/weakness is that he had his sex changed by Iva? You speak a lot about Oda not wanting to do what is expected and that's always seemed like the most obvious explanation for that particular interaction. Are there other options that we haven't thought of that might explain Iva's knowledge, or do you think it's the most popular theory? The face stitching is what gives me some hesitation, though I suppose it could just be a battle scar from Whitebeard.
It's entirely possible that was Oda's intent that Croc was once a woman, but a LOT of people grasped onto and spread that theory, for years now, so even if that was his idea so he may forgo it because at this point its too obvious.
It was vague enough though it could be literally anything. That he loved someone once, that he has a brother, that he likes puppies, that his scar is actually face paint, that deep down he wants to be a hero, that he likes Luffy. It could be literally anything.
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It's entirely possible that was Oda's intent that Croc was once a woman, but a LOT of people grasped onto and spread that theory, for years now, so even if that was his idea so he may forgo it because at this point its too obvious.
It was vague enough though it could be literally anything. That he loved someone once, that he has a brother, that he likes puppies, that his scar is actually face paint, that deep down he wants to be a hero, that he likes Luffy. It could be literally anything.
It does feels like that one time virtually everyone believed Shillew was going to get Jozu's fruit, and Oda was like Oop no! It's Chuck Testa!
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My guess is that Oda forgot about it entirely
If Crocodile was still appearing regularly and there was never a mention of it, then I'd agree.
But the guy only appears if we're lucky every 100 chapters.Which brings me to a point I've wanted to make. We're very rapidly approaching the point where it's too late for Oda to make certain payoffs without them feeling too late.
I don't want to wait until the Final War for Smoker to accomplish more, so I hope it doesn't take that long.
Oda could really use a decent-sized arc that's not Elbaf to wrap up some stuff before the Super-Paramount War.
I think I'll go with Gia Sado's idea of a Vegapunk arc. It'd involve Smoker, Sentoumaru, Vegapunk. It'd help a lot.
Croc or Enel would never.Wanna see the "ancient civilization destroyed" thing done really well? FFXIV did a great take on it. The bar's high for One Piece to beat.
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If Crocodile was still appearing regularly and there was never a mention of it, then I'd agree.
But the guy only appears if we're lucky every 100 chapters.Which brings me to a point I've wanted to make. We're very rapidly approaching the point where it's too late for Oda to make certain payoffs without them feeling too late.
I don't want to wait until the Final War for Smoker to accomplish more, so I hope it doesn't take that long.
Oda could really use a decent-sized arc that's not Elbaf to wrap up some stuff before the Super-Paramount War.
I think I'll go with Gia Sado's idea of a Vegapunk arc. It'd involve Smoker, Sentoumaru, Vegapunk. It'd help a lot.It's going to be weird if Wano ends with no Tashigi at all.
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It's going to be weird if Wano ends with no Tashigi at all.
What, not at all. It's not like she's actively desired to go there.
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but I also think Kanjuro or Orochi will hunt Hiyori, and some of the 1v1 may reach the main land.
This is something I don't get. Yours just happens to be the one post on this page mentioning it, but I've read this several times before. Why are people hell bent on Kanjuro and Orochi hunting down Momo or Hyori after everything that happened ?
I mean, I agree that Hyori will eventually get involved in whatever comes next, but why on Earth would Orochi try to find her instead of, say, going after the guy who beheaded him ? Same for Kanjuro : assuming he somehow survived and Orochi is dead, why would his last act be to hunt down the Kozukis and not seek revenge against Kaido ? -
This is something I don't get. Yours just happens to be the one post on this page mentioning it, but I've read this several times before. Why are people hell bent on Kanjuro and Orochi hunting down Momo or Hyori after everything that happened ?
I mean, I agree that Hyori will eventually get involved in whatever comes next, but why on Earth would Orochi try to find her instead of, say, going after the guy who beheaded him ? Same for Kanjuro : assuming he somehow survived and Orochi is dead, why would his last act be to hunt down the Kozukis and not seek revenge against Kaido ?Because they know they can't do anything against Kaido. Because they are petty and vile and will vent their frustrations on weak targets. Because they are Kurozumi and hate the Kouzuki, if their clan is going to die, they would want to assure their rivals die as well.
Also, there's foreshadowing for that: throught Kanjuro, Orochi learned Hiyori was alive and in hiding in Ringo. Plus, Kanjuro himself declared he'd hunt down Hiyori when he ran away with Momo. The setup is already there.
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Re: Croc
Rule #1 Oda can and do what he wants on a whim so this is just my take on it.
As mentioned above, when a theory becomes widespread, Oda loses interest in it, and unless it's a central core point, he may very well change it.
Given the increasingly alarming acceleration over the past nine or so years though, I do wonder if he has a new option in mind which is :
"lol Figure it out"
Previously I think he wouldn't have left something dangling but in many ways, Oda is becoming increasingly Toriyama-esque with tertiary dangling threads. What doesn't help that, at all, is people repeating these tired theories again and again, year after year, at the top of their lungs. Frankly, Oda finds it boring when people think they've figured out his story.
I'm lucky to have this space which is essentially a close circle of friends to discuss thoughts and ideas because in addition to editorial censorship, I also self-censor official columns bc I don't want to put something out there that could cause such a problem.
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This is something I don't get. Yours just happens to be the one post on this page mentioning it, but I've read this several times before. Why are people hell bent on Kanjuro and Orochi hunting down Momo or Hyori after everything that happened ?
I mean, I agree that Hyori will eventually get involved in whatever comes next, but why on Earth would Orochi try to find her instead of, say, going after the guy who beheaded him ? Same for Kanjuro : assuming he somehow survived and Orochi is dead, why would his last act be to hunt down the Kozukis and not seek revenge against Kaido ?People think it'll happen because it was set up when Kanjuro said to the scabbards that he would kill Hiyori now that he knows that she's alive and where she's hidden.
And the fact that Kaido became an enemy to the Kurozumi clan doesn't overrule their hatred and grudge towards the Kouzuki. Orochi has this mentality of wanting to see Wano burn for what the citzens did to his family… so he's going to seize the little that's left for him to enjoy.
He might want to get revenge on Kaido, sure, but for the most part I believe that Orochi understands that there's nothing he can do, so he's probably going to try to escape and kill Hiyori before leaving the country... and just have the consolation prize of seeing Wano being destroyed. It reminds of Hodi rejoicing over the fact that Vander Decken threw Noah on FI to destroy it after he was losing to Luffy.
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What is the measure of a "too widespread" theory? Like the D or the Celestial dragons being extraterrestials? Or more down to earth stuff, like the connection (or lack of it) of Tashigi and Kuina?
Like attack on titan went on and
! weaponized memory manipulation to stablish a dictatorship, thing that I kinda expect to be part of the secret of the blank century, cuz issolated civilizations like Shandia not remembering anything at all seems strange, and a full clear of 100 years is excesive for some war or a thing that can be said "oh yeah, this world goverment has been there all along, care to join? This is the benefits package, and there are the pirates that will come 20 minutes after we leave if you say no"
! With titan powers transmiting like devil fruit powers, as in:
no canibalism: it shows up in an appropiate vessel, somehow
canibalism: the canibal gets it3DS FC: 0516-7666-3837
SW-4128-8032-0729
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Oh man I can’t wait for the return of Croc, it’s going to be epic
I hope he teams up with the straw hats as an untrustworthy ally
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Pretty much everyone's going to team up with Luffy, eventually.
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I'm sure Oda enjoys being unpredictable, but I believe he achieves that best by keeping it 50/50. A mix between letting things turn out exactly how people expect them to - and instances where the outcome is against all predictions. With such a balance he can catch people off-guard more effectively, especially long-time readers. Extra points if the u-turn comes at the last moment.
In Crocodile's case he could have him transformed by Ivankov, only to add another truly silly thing as his real secret on top (like Croc isn't ashamed that he used to be a woman, but his third nipple or the bulging belly button Ivankov spotted during the transformation).
But yes, I don't necessarily expect stuff like that to be revealed in the main story anymore. It's premium content for spinoffs and oneshots though, just like the recent Ace Episode by Boichi.
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I believe Croc is gonna get his little flashback when he returns.
Oda even hid his face in Chapter 0, I assume so that we don't know if by then Croc had already gotten his scar (and so that Oda is free to play around with those ideas before actually putting them on print).So wether Croc's secret is a sex change or not, which could be but at the same time it's actually the most obvious move here, there's still a bullet left in that chamber.
My guess is that Croc is gonna appear again when the Revolutionaries do. I feel like he's not a "pirate" anymore, if he was we would've caught wind of his new bounty or rumors/news that the former shichibukai was causing chaos in the New World. Croc is still doing something shady, with Daz Bones and a new organization, possibly related to another great world secret and that will make him cross paths with the Revos again.Hey, their old home got destroyed by Blackbeard, maybe Crocodile is grating them safe harbour in some island he conquered.
For very altruistic reasons, obvs. -
I say Crocodile will return to the story when the SHs end up needing whatever services he's providing. Bonus points if Vivi is traveling with them again.
I think he will end up being the one to explain DF awakening to readers and will help Luffy achieve it.
His secret may be related to Dragon as well. And his motivations in the war (after he stopped trying to kill Whitebeard) will also get explained.
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or is Doffy done in the story now that he's at Impel down?
I mean we were just told not to smash the thread with big time theories, so just to be quick.
Bon Clay+Pica+Doula Mongo+The terrible and weak new administration of Hannybal+Maybe Vergo from the outside=Another prison break guaranteed.
I don't think there will be another breakout of Impel Down, no.
Bon Clay will not stay there by any means, during EoS, and it wouldn't really matter since Impel Down its a pretty fascist place that must go down along with the rulers that keep it operating.
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I don't think there will be another breakout of Impel Down, no.
Wano predictions: There will be 5 acts; All Straw Hats will get fights, some in Act 4; Big Mom Pirates will arrive; Carrot will have her moment, but won't join; Yamato will be a Kouzuki samurai and Wano's Guardian; Shanks will visit Luffy in Act 5; Next arc is Mary Geoise.
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I mean we were just told not to smash the thread with big time theories, so just to be quick.
Bon Clay+Pica+Doula Mongo+The terrible and weak new administration of Hannybal+Maybe Vergo from the outside=Another prison break guaranteed.
Bon Clay will not stay there by any means, during EoS, and it wouldn't really matter since Impel Down its a pretty fascist place that must go down along with the rulers that keep it operating.
My bad, I thought we just weren't supposed to leave super gigantic posts here anymore, I didn't think questions weren't allowed
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@Deicide @theawkwardstation thanks for shedding some light on this, I had missed Kanjuro's threat on Hyori. I'm still not entirely sold on Orochi going after her specifically, but him ignoring Kaido to focus on Wano out of spite and cowardice I can completely get behind. He could spark this arc's ticking bomb, too, something like "if I can't have my way with Wano then Kaido won't either, let me push this self-destruct button now".
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What seaking question Jabra? I missed it.
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I don't think there will be another breakout of Impel Down, no.
Maybe when the Great War starts? Either way, I imagine when Dragon is the new leader of the world, he'll either scrap it or make it much more humane for the prisoners.
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Crocodile was probably a fangirl of Whitebeard and asked to join his crew. Whitebeard says "Only sons, no daughters." So Croc gets Iva to change her into a him and tries again but still gets rejected. Then, Croc is like "What the hell, I gave up boobs for you" and swore death to Whitebeard.
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I agree with Greg on the fact that its not certain that we will get 5 acts,altough people still keep giving it for granted,and also about the fact that Oda might never answer on the mistery of Crocodile in the series. It could be material for spin-offs or interviews made years later Toriyama-style. By the way Crocodile and Doflamingo are some of my favourite characters in the series,and are some of the best villains. Some people thinks that if Croco and Dofla were the Yonkou instead of Kaido and Big Mom the series would have been even more interesting. Considering how Kaido and Big Mom are a little disappointing as characters for me at the moment (yes,yes,lets wait for the Rocks flashback,but right now i'm not liking them at the same level of Croco,Dofla,and other OP villains of the past) that would have been very cool indeed!
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What seaking question Jabra? I missed it.
Hey Greg, how big exactly is the biggest Sea King introduced this far? I tried to compare them with ships and islands, but it's difficult due to perspective and Oda being… not that great with size-consistency in general.
Are the biggest ones as big as the Fishman Island bubble? Or 1/3 of it? How would they compare to Zunisha? Specifically talking about those mega fat ones from Shirahoshi, especially the whale type?How do you gauge these things, assuming you didn't get the chance to ask the man himself about it?
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You can't just ask a man to measure his sea king
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I agree with Greg on the fact that its not certain that we will get 5 acts,altough people still keep giving it for granted,
My take on it is that Oda is referencing an established structure and thus will keep it close to it. It’s like if Oda were to make a character recite a haiku: he wouldn’t change the basic haiku structure, or the reference is lost.
If kabuki theater typically has 5 acts, Oda will keep it 5 acts in Wano. Or else, why make it seem like a kabuki play at all?
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