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Roger’s bounty: 5,564,800,000 berries
5 6
ご む
Go muAlso, I don’t think Luffy’s attacks will resemble rubber for the entire series. Rubber bullets became armored. 流桜 adds the firepower.
Roger was said to be like a demon when angered. Imagine Luffy.
He’ll probably end up with the Mera Mera no Mi too… if Sabo dies. I’m betting he gets the trifecta: Gomu, Mera, Goku.
That's pun of his name. Luffy will have only 5 and 6 in his bounty. A 5.6 billion bounty to just surpass Roger.
Not to mention that Roger having Gomu Gomu fruit would be the lamest thing ever
Yet Shanks aims to preserve balance? Why?
Where is all this "Shanks aims to preserve balance" nonsense coming from?
Sorry, but I don't really see it in the manga.
It's the same with the Shanks is an evil end boss or whatever theory, that poped up… Where are you people getting that?
Shanks is a pirat - a Yonko, one of the absolute top tiers in the pirate world, not a saint. Just like Luffy or Law or Ace or every other damn pirate in the manga.
Does he has his own agenda? Of course!
But what do we now about Shanks agenda in gerneral?
We know two years ago he was against Ace chasing Teach, because he thought it is too dangerous at the time for this two to fight. So, he tiered to stop it, consequences be damned (as shown in chapter 234). At the end he failed.
We know he intercepted Kaidou as Whitebeard was on the way to Marineford to rescue Ace. And we know he later turned up at Marineford and was able to stop useless killing. Is that seriously a bad thing??? We don't know if there is a specific reason why Sengoku was willing to listen to Shanks. All we know is that he did it and the war ended.
Hell, we don't even know why Shanks thought he should interfere with the whole affair. He could very well have gone "I warned you, you didn't listen, now see how you are able to rescue your crew member, Whitebeard". All we can do is try to read between the lines why Shanks warned Whitebeard and interfered in the war. (And yes, I get that it looks like he is making sure the balance of the three powers stays intact. But where are the evidence, that this was really the reason…)
And after the TS... Is it really surprising that Shanks - I would say he looks like a mixture of pissed and exited - doesn´t throw a party for Luffy 1.5B berry bounty at the end of chapter 903 like he did for Luffys first bounty, because if you remember the cover of the chapters 873 and 875 where - oh... how was this guy called again, that practical deified Luffy... Bartolomeo! - wracked havoc on one of Shanks island. There is already trouble between Shanks and Luffy brewing, but only Shanks knows of it.
And Shanks turning up at Mary Geoise right at the reverie to talk about one specific pirate with the gorosei. Is it suspicious? Yes, but it doesn't make Shanks evil or means that he works with the WG, because we don't know who the pirate is, he wanted to talk about! It could be Luffy or BB or Wevil or some other pirate. Furthermore, isn't it also dangerous for a pirate like Shanks to walk straight into the lion’s den of Mary Geoise while the reverie is underway as practical all the powerhouse of the marines are assembled there at the time. Alone! We don't know the reason why Shanks took the risk, we just know he did it and it was because of a pirate.
Shanks is a part of the story right from the beginning, we know of him know for nearly 1000 chapters, but we don't know a lot about him or his agenda. So, we try to fill the blank pages of the enigma called Shanks with assumptions and speculations.
And I don't mean to sound like a dick, I blame these pauses between chapters, everyone is bored, minds run wild, theories run amok, dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria.
The bold one.
Some of the theories that are voiced now are so far stretched its hard to even warp one's head around it.
No, Roger did not have that fruit.
At the very least Rayleigh would have said something about it. Or Edward, Linlin, Sengoku, DD, Crocodile, Smoker, Buggy, basically nearly every character the SH's met would have said something.
We don’t know the true nature of the Gomu Gomu no Mi, perhaps. When combined with Haki and Awakening, it may resemble something else. Chopper, Doflamingo, Katakuri, Cracker, and Big Mom all had abilities that looked nothing like their original powers.
Did Roger have a devil fruit? If so, just one? One could make the argument for him having multiple (like Blackbeard) — including the Mera Mera no Mi (though apparently there’s no historical precedent for it).
@All:
The 5648 in his bounty is a reference to his name.
Go = 5, Ro(ku) = 6, Ji(The ten-ten form of Shi) = 4, and Ya = 8Go Ro Ji Ya -> GOru D. ROJ(I)YA -> Gol D. Roger
Quite fair. We haven’t seen any evidence of Roger having it in the past, but I also wonder why Shanks had it in the past. For what reason? What did he plan to do with it? How did Luffy accidentally eat it when it had been locked up?
Where is all this "Shanks aims to preserve balance" nonsense coming from?
Sorry, but I don't really see it in the manga.It's the same with the Shanks is an evil end boss or whatever theory, that poped up… Where are you people getting that?
Shanks is a pirat - a Yonko, one of the absolute top tiers in the pirate world, not a saint. Just like Luffy or Law or Ace or every other damn pirate in the manga.
Some pirates are employed by the state for controlled chaos. The Shichibukai, one of the Triumvirate, is an example of this. The Gorosei allude to the possibility of the Yonkou being the same — leashed dogs with a propensity to bite back.
And now the system aims to dismantle these groups they allowed to flourish, as has been hinted at since the Jaya arc.
Shanks has no ambition to rule the world, find One Piece, etc. But what has he consistently done?
Taken actions to preserve balance in the world. Trying to have Whitebeard call off Ace, since Blackbeard has always been an opportunist. Stopping Kaido from coming to Ace’s execution for his own selfish aims. Ending the Paramount War at Marineford. Burying Whitebeard and Ace. Taking Kid’s arm. And now a private council with the Gorosei.
No.
What are you talking about. We know already know the nature of the fruit.
The nature of the Rubber Rubber fruit is that it make's its user Rubber.
No.
What are you talking about. We know already know the nature of the fruit.The nature of the Rubber Rubber fruit is that it make's its user Rubber.
Haven’t you wondered why certain fruits give life to the consumer?
Lassoo.
Funkfreed.
Smiley.
Bunbuku.
Could it be that a soul was bestowed upon these objects from within the Devil Fruit? Do Devil Fruits carry the souls of previous users?
Vegapunk knows.
Some pirates are employed by the state for controlled chaos. The Shichibukai, one of the Triumvirate, is an example of this. The Gorosei allude to the possibility of the Yonkou being the same — leashed dogs with a propensity to bite back.
And now the system aims to dismantle these groups they allowed to flourish, as has been hinted at since the Jaya arc.
Yes, the Shichibuaki were leashed dogs to counter together with marines the power of the Yonkos. But where was it hinted that the Yonkos are "leashed dogs" of the WG? Could you please point me to the chapter, because I can't remember ever reading something hinting to it.
And the Shichibukai system now mainly got abolished because of King Cobra and King Riku (with backing from Issho iirc) convinced the other kings at the reverie to do so.
Shanks has no ambition to rule the world, find One Piece, etc. But what has he consistently done?
That's what I meant as I wrote that we don't know Shanks agenda. We don't know Shanks ambition or whatever he is up to. All we can say is that he is powerful enough the become a Yonko, his crewmembers apparently are also very strong (don't remember right now if it was Brandnew or Sengoku who said the Redhair Pirates are the most balanced Yonko crew) and he is apparently also very good at reading the chess board to draw his own conclusions from what is happening around the world. And it are probably these conclusions which decide whether he takes action or not. Put this is pure speculations on my part because we know less about Shanks and his overall agenda/motivation/ambition than we think.
Haven’t you wondered why certain fruits give life to the consumer?
Lassoo.
Funkfreed.
Smiley.
Bunbuku.Could it be that a soul was bestowed upon these objects from within the Devil Fruit? Do Devil Fruits carry the souls of previous users?
Vegapunk knows.
With that post it's getting really hard for me to take you seriously, because… just NO! I don't even know how to counter this, because it sounds so wrong to me and I really don't want to insult you but NO!
Yes, the Shichibuaki were leashed dogs to counter together with marines the power of the Yonkos. But where was it hinted that the Yonkos are "leashed dogs" of the WG? Could you please point me to the chapter, because I can't remember ever reading something hinting to it.
And the Shichibukai system now mainly got abolished because of King Cobra and King Riku (with backing from Issho iirc) convinced the other kings at the reverie to do so.
Gorosei, Ch. 233:
“The destruction of the three great powers would reverberate throughout the world. They must be protected.”
The Triumvirate:
So the Gorosei want to protect the current system, including the Yonkou.
It makes sense, doesn’t it? The government relies on both Big Mom and Kaido as essential parts of its supply chain. Big Mom oversees the manufacture of drugs and Kaido handles weapons. This is no different from the WG/Marine relationships with Doflamingo / Crocodile. Doflamingo is the broker for the underworld and funnels Yonkou dealings across their world.
Red Hair Pirates, Ch. 234:
Lucky Roo: “What now, cap’n?”
Shanks: “I’ll go to Whitebeard. Prepare to set sail!”
Ben Beckmann: “Won’t the government try to stop us?”
Shanks: “Maybe. But we’re going anyway. We’ll deal with them when the time comes!!”
Shanks is awfully nonplussed about the World Government interfering. He may have them on his leash.
Ch. 434:
Whitebeard: “Your duel with Hawkeye is still fresh in my memory. Everyone was surprised beyond their imagination when you came back from East Blue missing an arm. What enemy did you give that left arm to?”
Shanks: “This?”
Luffy (flashback): “One day, I’ll have a ship and crew better than yours! I’m gonna be Pirate King!”
Shanks (smirking; eyes hidden): “I gave it up for the sake of the new era.”
Shanks clearly knows something here. Does he really care about a new era of Pirate? Or is his observation haki so advanced that he perceived the future, even back during the encounter with Higuma?
Moreover, he’s concerned that “no one will be able to stop this new era from spiraling into chaos,” and warns Whitebeard. He saw it coming.
Gorosei, Ch. 594:
“The balance of the three great powers cannot be depended on any longer. Who can we use to fill the Seven Warlords’ empty seats?”
So now, the Gorosei are questioning the legitimacy of the Triumvirate.
“We should wait for further developments in the New World. The balance of power among the pirates will be shifting soon. We must pick the ones who have the greatest influence.”
This is what led to the new appointments in the Shichibukai — notably, Buggy the Clown. He holds influence because of his status as a former chore boy on the Pirate King’s crew.
_“Blackbeard has already begun his rampage in the New World. He’s already taken out one of the rookies worth over 100 million. He knows Whitebeard’s territories through and through.”
“Of the pirate candidates for the Four Emperors, he is the frontrunner. There is no historical precedent for a man who’s eaten two Devil Fruits. Only the remaining Four Emperors themselves could possibly defeat him… and maybe Marco the Phoenix with Whitebeard’s crew.”_
Doesn’t this give you pause? The Gorosei are talking about appointing a new Yonkou — almost as if it’s an official position conferred rather than a moniker given by Morgans (as was done with Luffy).
It’s also worth mentioning that there was talk of abolishing the Shichibukai long before Cobra and Riku spoke of it. I believe there’s several instances in part 1, though I can’t recall which off the top of my head.
That's what I meant as I wrote that we don't know Shanks agenda. We don't know Shanks ambition or whatever he is up to. All we can say is that he is powerful enough the become a Yonko, his crewmembers apparently are also very strong (don't remember right now if it was Brandnew or Sengoku who said the Redhair Pirates are the most balanced Yonko crew) and he is apparently also very good at reading the chess board to draw his own conclusions from what is happening around the world. And it are probably these conclusions which decide whether he takes action or not. Put this is pure speculations on my part because we know less about Shanks and his overall agenda/motivation/ambition than we think.
Something we do know about Shanks: he was very manipulative in his youth. Despite being the same age as Buggy, Shanks clearly dominated the clown and used him as a pawn. It’s like a Luffy and Usopp friendship gone wrong.
With that post it's getting really hard for me to take you seriously, because… just NO! I don't even know how to counter this, because it sounds so wrong to me and I really don't want to insult you but NO!
If you can answer those questions for me, be my guest 
I told you I didn’t have the answers!
Can you guys guess why do I get hungry when I enter this thread?
Can you guys guess why do I get hungry when I enter this thread?
chopper is emergency food..
Haven’t you wondered why certain fruits give life to the consumer?
Lassoo.
Funkfreed.
Smiley.
Bunbuku.Could it be that a soul was bestowed upon these objects from within the Devil Fruit? Do Devil Fruits carry the souls of previous users?
Vegapunk knows.
BRO, we have seen multiple times that the Fruit abilities remain the same, despite its user.
We have Sabo and the fire Fruit.
We have Orochi's guy with the Clone fruit.
These fruit abilities remained consistent regardless of the user.
Therefore, the Rubber fruit would still retain its properties across Luffy and the previous user.
Yes, I will agree that one of the biggest mysteries in OP is how inanimate objects gain fruit abilities.
But the one thing that is 100% is that Roger did not have the Rubber fruit.
HOW COME LUFFY NEVER KILLS AN ENEMY?
ODA:ITS BECAUSE IN THAT ERA EVERYONE USES THEIR LIVES TO FIGHT FOR THEIR DREAMS. FOR AN ENEMY WHEN THEIR DREAM HAS BEEN SHATTERED,IT IS AS PAINFUL AS DEATH,I BELIEVE FOR A PIRATE NOT TO KILL AN ENEMY , IT'S GIVING THEM A SECOND CHANCE TO FIGHT FOR THEIR DREAMS.
But the one thing that is 100% is that Roger did not have the Rubber fruit.
If he did, we wouldn't have had Ace in the story 
Okay, I took out my volumes and looked at the scenses you provided.
Gorosei, Ch. 233:
“The destruction of the three great powers would reverberate throughout the world. They must be protected.”The Triumvirate:
- Shichibukai
- Marines
- Yonkou
So the Gorosei want to protect the current system, including the Yonkou.
I feel like the Gorosei are mostly commenting on what has happened and what it means for the system of the three powers. The content of the discussion between the Gorosei are two things: Shanks and what he is up to and the search for a replacement for Crocodile. In my volume they dismiss Shanks and what he is doing at that time, after they hear he only sent a messenger. To close the opening in the Shichibukai is more important to them.
They want to keep the balance of the three powers intact, not the Yonkos themself! The system of the three powers are nothing more than a means of keeping the status quo, which also means the WG stays - somewhat - on top of things. If anything, the scene shows how fragile the system of the three powers is and how important it is that everything stays exactly the same, because if even one player within the system falls out of his role everything gets destabilized. And at the moment the three powers are overbalanced after what happened with Crocodile and then Shanks takes for some reason action.
By the way, just because the Yonkos are considered one of the three powers of the world doesn't mean the Yonkos care about it or that the Gorosei aren't willing to erase one of said powers if it is convenience for them.
Or why did they allow the marines to go to war with Whitebeard over Ace, if they want to protect the Yonko as part of the system?
Red Hair Pirates, Ch. 234:
Lucky Roo: “What now, cap’n?”
Shanks: “I’ll go to Whitebeard. Prepare to set sail!”
Ben Beckmann: “Won’t the government try to stop us?”
Shanks: “Maybe. But we’re going anyway. We’ll deal with them when the time comes!!”Shanks is awfully nonplussed about the World Government interfering. He may have them on his leash.
Really?Because it sounds and looks like Shanks doesn't really care whether the WG will interfere or not. But that is how I read and interpret the scene.
Ch. 434:
Whitebeard: “Your duel with Hawkeye is still fresh in my memory. Everyone was surprised beyond their imagination when you came back from East Blue missing an arm. What enemy did you give that left arm to?”
Shanks: “This?”
Luffy (flashback): “One day, I’ll have a ship and crew better than yours! I’m gonna be Pirate King!”
Shanks (smirking; eyes hidden): “I gave it up for the sake of the new era.”Shanks clearly knows something here. Does he really care about a new era of Pirate? Or is his observation haki so advanced that he perceived the future, even back during the encounter with Higuma?
Moreover, he’s concerned that “no one will be able to stop this new era from spiraling into chaos,” and warns Whitebeard. He saw it coming.
Huch? He knows something? Well… he remembers how he lost his arm. Nothing special her for me.
You are also leaving out the reason for Shanks to seek out Whitebeard: to warn him form BB and to persuade him to call back Ace for the time being. Shanks even states that he has only one scar which still hurt, and that said scar was caused by Teach. So, Shanks simply took what he knew from personal experience, what he knew of Ace and concluded, that a fight between BB and Ace would end bad for one of the two. This has nothing to do with haki. It's plain old logic. Hell, the first time i read that whole scene I thought 'uho... doesn't sound good.'
I agree with you, that Shanks is concerned about the new era and the possibility of it spiralling into chaos. But how did he see it coming? I would say he used once again plain old logic.
Are you seriously want me to believe, that Shanks has advanced observation haki, which allows him to see a future many year away?? How do you even get that out of the scene you quoted?
Gorosei, Ch. 594:
“The balance of the three great powers cannot be depended on any longer. Who can we use to fill the Seven Warlords’ empty seats?”So now, the Gorosei are questioning the legitimacy of the Triumvirate.
“We should wait for further developments in the New World. The balance of power among the pirates will be shifting soon. We must pick the ones who have the greatest influence.”
This is what led to the new appointments in the Shichibukai — notably, Buggy the Clown. He holds influence because of his status as a former chore boy on the Pirate King’s crew.
Yes, the Gorosei are questioning the current system, but at the same time they are thinking on how to fill the openings within Shichibukai. They are still intent to keep the system of the three powers in the way they can do it: appointing new members for the Shichibukai.
_“Blackbeard has already begun his rampage in the New World. He’s already taken out one of the rookies worth over 100 million. He knows Whitebeard’s territories through and through.”
“Of the pirate candidates for the Four Emperors, he is the frontrunner. There is no historical precedent for a man who’s eaten two Devil Fruits. Only the remaining Four Emperors themselves could possibly defeat him… and maybe Marco the Phoenix with Whitebeard’s crew.”_
Doesn’t this give you pause? The Gorosei are talking about appointing a new Yonkou — almost as if it’s an official position conferred rather than a moniker given by Morgans (as was done with Luffy).
To answer your question: No! Because the Gorosei don't appoint a Yonko.
IIRC, somebody "gains" the title of a Yonko if he/she is recognized as a ruler of the New World by the WG and other pirates (which is the reason why Luffy's title als Yonko isn't legitimate). It took BB a war against Marco and the remains of the Whitebeard Pirates to be recognized as a Yonko. And he had two devil fruits, powerful crewmembers and he knew the Whitebeards territories very throughly. So knowlegde and power are not enough to become a Yonko without being recognized as the absolute top tier.
Furthermore, the Gorosei are commenting on the happenings within the pirate world and BB chances as a potentional new Yonko, which they can't really influence contrary to who gets a place within the Shichibukai or what the marines do.
Something we do know about Shanks: he was very manipulative in his youth. Despite being the same age as Buggy, Shanks clearly dominated the clown and used him as a pawn. It’s like a Luffy and Usopp friendship gone wrong.
Yeah, Shanks did use Buggy and his ability there. But dont't forget the panel on the next page where Buggy realize that Shanks is his ticket out of Marineford. So Buggy is just as much using Shanks as Shanks is using him.
Can't right now remember where a young Shanks was shown to manipulate Buggy.
I fear my take not only on the scenes is very different from yours, but also my view on Shanks. You see something dark (I don’t want to say sinister or evil) in Shanks character and what he does.Whereas I see a character with an unknown agenda/motivation, maybe with some grey areas in the moral department, but general considered as one of the good guys. This view of course affects how we look and interpret this scene.
I feel a lot regarding Shanks and what/why he does is still up for interpretation because his motivation is unknown to us. Whether Shanks is truly a good guy or a bad guy looking like a good guy is something we as reader can only decide once we learn of Shanks motivation.
@The:
If he did, we wouldn't have had Ace in the story
Hahaha, nice. 
Is it possible that Roger had eaten the Gum Gum fruit? Yeah, I suppose, but I think it would be pretty bad writing from a guy who has been pretty careful with things like that. It would be way more than unusual for Roger to have had the same fruit as Luffy and no one to have commented on it.
Not to mention that Roger having Gomu Gomu fruit would be the lamest thing ever
I think this is the main point here
I think it's highly unlikely Roger had the Gomu Gomu fruit. I don't think Roger had a Devil Fruit at all, let alone the same one as Luffy. At this point, the Straw Hats have met way too many people who knew Roger for that to really be a possibility.
Rayleigh has commented on the fact that the Straw Hat once belonged to Roger. The world doesn't remember him wearing the hat because Roger is far more famous for his second voyage through the Grand Line, at which point Shanks had already inherited the hat.
Someone would have remarked on the fact that Roger and Luffy have the same Devil Fruit by now. Not to mention, it's stated in chapter 1 that Shanks crew seized the fruit while raiding an enemy ship. It wasn't something special to Shanks.
And you can't say that Roger didn't have the Gomu Gomu no Mi with 100% certainty — that's impossible to prove at this point.
They've met dozens of people who knew Roger personally and none of them have commented on it. Even if Roger used it differently, someone like Whitebeard or Rayleigh or Smoker or Garp or Sengoku would have commented on the fact by now. Everyone comments on the personality being a match, but never the fruit.
Or the hat for that matter, Roger clearly didn't wear it for long.
Someone important in Shanks's life must had it. Not Roger, but someone.
Lucky Roux said they got the fruit from an enemy ship. They knew which one it was, but no one seemed to show any sentimental attachment to it.
Like the Avatar? / Like the Miis?
Dragalia Lost ID: 97617932505
Yeah, they were mostly freaking out that Luffy can't swim anymore. Shanks, if I recall correctly, called him an idiot.
@The:
If he did, we wouldn't have had Ace in the story
Not Gonna Lie, Best Joke EVER!
Haven’t you wondered why certain fruits give life to the consumer?
Lassoo.
Funkfreed.
Smiley.
Bunbuku.Could it be that a soul was bestowed upon these objects from within the Devil Fruit? Do Devil Fruits carry the souls of previous users?
Vegapunk knows.
You do realize those are all Zoans, right?
Why do they so easily dismiss two Yonkou getting into contact with each other? When Big Mom and Kaido linked, the Marines called a state of emergency.
It's because Shanks sent an envoy and the Gorosei clearly doesn't view him as a threat to world order.
You are comparing two situations which surroundings conditions are totally different.
There is no way for the Gorosei to know why Shanks sent a messenger, all they know he did it and it could possibly be bad. And yes, they dismiss Shanks in that situation based on what they know about him because they have more urgent matters to attend. If they need to the marines are able to send out fleets to try to stop whatever happens.
If you really want to read the scene like Shanks has some shady business whit the WG, than that’s how you want to read it. But I will not agree with you, because for the above stated reason.
And there is the different between the situation in which Shanks contacted Whitebeard and as Big Mom called Kaido.
The marines a freaking out because all their powers right now a tied due to the reverie. They have no men to spare in this situation. And by the way, Sakazuki, fleet admiral, is not only once but repeatedly refusing to send out troops because whatever happens between Big Mom and Kaido is happening out of the WG jurisdiction in Wano. Even through it is a big deal and spells trouble for the WG nobody takes action to stop the two from getting together.
So… are Big Mom and Kaido also on WG payroll?
Ups... sorry, you already answered that question... The weapons dealing of Wano and drug dealings of big Mom (which I totally don't remember).:ninja:
They want to keep balance in the world through the three powers. Please reread the line — I think it's less ambiguous than you think:
“The destruction of the three great powers would reverberate throughout the world. They must be protected.”
This is the line, verbatim. They say they want to protect the three great powers — not dismantle any of them.
I stand what I said. They want to keep the status quo through maintaining the system of the three powers, because it allows the Gorosei (and the WG) to somewhat to stay on top of things. Thus, they also protect themself.
This has less to do with Shanks than you make out of it.
Because Whitebeard arrogantly wanted to do what he wanted to do. His ship operates like a family and they have a code of conduct. He sent Ace after Blackbeard to take him out and refused to call him back.
You may wanna go back to chapter 552!
Whitebeard is covering Aces ass with a blatant lie.
! Flashback!Pirates: Don't do it!!! / Ace!!! Calm down, would you?!!! // The old man said this is a special case!!! / You don't have to go after Teach!!
Flashback!Ace: Get off me!!! He's a member of my division!!! / What's going to become of poor Satch's soul if I just let his killer go?!!!
Flashback!Whitebeard: Ace… that's enough. Just this once......... // I have a very bad feeling about all this...
Flashback!Ace: He killed his own crewmate and fled the ship!!! After being in your care for how many decades… // He ran away and brought shame to us all!!! // How am I supposed to just do nothing... / ...when my father's name is at stake?! / I am going to settle this!!!
Flashback!Whitebeard: .........
Flashback!Pirates: Wait!!! Come back!!! Ace!!!
Ace: ......!!!
! Ace: ...............!! // Old man......... // Guys......... // Even after I ignored your warnings and ran out on my own… // Why couldn't you have just forgotten about me?!!! / It's my own fault I ended up like this…......!!!
Whitebeard: .................. // No... // As I recall, it was I who told you to go after him, my son.
Ace: ?!!
! Ace: ...............?!! / ......!! You liar…...!!!
Pirates: …...............
Ace: What the hell are you talking about?!!! I ran out back then even though you told me to -
Whitebeard: I told him to go. Isn't that right, Marco?
Marco: Indeed. I heard it with my own ears!! / We're sorry for putting you through this trouble, Ace!! // I think everyone in the whole wide ocean ought to know... // Just what happens to any damned fool... / ...who lays a hand on a member of our crew!!!
! (translation by cnet128)
Whoever is to fault for the war is a different matter and has nothing to do with Shanks.
Shanks foresaw a bad outcome and wanted to warn Whitebeard based on his own experience. (A warning that was unneeded as shown in the scene I provided above, because Whitebeard himself had a bad feeling about Teach.)
Whitebeard could have called off Ace at anytime and chose not to out of pride. The WG certainly wasn't concerned with Whitebeard's operations prior to this, as he was able to operate for more than 20 years after Roger's death. Whitebeard may have broken a social contract here — one in which all of the Yonkou have entered. It wouldn't be the first time he rebelled against authority (a la Rocks).
Whitebeard tiered to stop Ace from going after Teach, but Ace didn't listen. Once again: reread chapter 552! Whitebeard is covering for Ace.
How are we to judge if the WG was concerned by prior operations of Whitebeard or not, if we didn't see any of said operations or reactions to said operations.
And we are getting off topic here.
That's exactly how I read it as well. Why?
Think about how feared the WG is by EVERYONE in the series. They commit genocide on a whim. Why is Shanks so nonchalant? Seemingly, because he isn't worried about the potential backlash.
Is this because Shanks is just that strong? Or is it because he knows he won't be punished? Something similar happened when he asked Sengoku for Ace and Whitebeard's bodies.
Shanks isn't worried about the backlash, because yes, he is that strong! He is one of the Yonkos!
No need to make anything more ambiguous as you are trying to make it sound.
Case closed for me.
Heck, maybe Shanks is a part of Sword? 類
Nowadays everybody is sword member, right?:ninja:
Shanks knew that a fight between BB and Ace would end badly for Ace. Hence the warning.
I agree that Shanks was concerned about the new era, but we can't rule out that this was prophecy. After all, Shanks first attempted to speak with Whitebeard all the way back in Jaya. Maybe he knew something. We still don't know what happened between him and Kaido.
I would say we are here in an agreement, so case closed.
Is this really that far-fetched? Katakuri can see the future. Shyarly too. Everything Usopp has lied about has eventually come true. The power exists in this world.
To answer your question: Yes, based on my understanding of how future sight works. It allows you to see a potential future, seconds to may a minute away, which gives somebody an advantage in a fight. That's what Katakuri did and Luffy learnt.
Shiralys prediction has nothing to do with future sight. Just like Usopps lies. He told fantastic tales, which now start to turn up true. I would be more inclined to say Usopp was using his imagination very well. I don't see there any connection between the tales of a 17-year-old, who lived his whole live on a peaceful island in the backwaters of the east blue and haki.
Initially, but they eventually move to destroy the Shichibukai after the system has been rocked too hard. We know that currently, the Shichibukai are awaiting Buster Calls. The system can no longer be maintained due to Luffy, whom they've been keeping tabs on since their first appearance.
At that point, the Gorosei still wanted to keep the system of the three powers going with the Shichibukai. That is the scene you have quoted. What happened to them years later in the story with the Shichibukai is irrelevant. The main point is remains that they are searching for replacements.
Go back to 594 — the Gorosei are discussing who the frontrunner for Whitebeard's replacement in the Yonkou will be. They settle between either Blackbeard or Marco + Whitebeard Pirates.
Then what happens during the 2 year timeskip? Marco is defeated by the Blackbeard pirates, cementing the latter's status. We have no clue if he was appointed, but he seems to be living comfortably.
Er… No, they are commenting on the happenings in the New World and how BB is the frontrunner for Whitebeards spot as Yonko based on his knowledge of his former captains’ territories. And then they start to wonder who could possibly stop BB and concluded it are the other Yonkos or Marco with the remnants of the Whitebeard Pirates.
! Gorousei: …............... // Blackbeard has already begun to take action in the New World... / ...and one of those rookies exceeding a hundred million in bounty has already fallen prey to him. // He is all too familiar with the territory that Whitebeard controlled. // Amongst those pirates striving to fill the vacant seat in the Yonkou... / ...he has a clear head start. There is, after all, no record of any man before him successfully consuming two Devil's Fruits. // If anybody can put a stop to his advance, it would have to be the Yonkou themselves… // ...or else Marco the Phoenix and the other remnants of the Whitebeard Pirates. // It is always those with the D who cause such trouble… Just like Portgas... // It would seem that the name has become rather too exposed at this point...
(translation by cnet128)
And yes, this leads to the a fight between BB and Marco which ended up cementing BB status as Yonko.
Young Buggy seems to really dislike Shanks, who has done something unforgivable. Buggy also laments that Shanks used Buggy as an errand boy — which seemingly happened in the past, too.
No, there was no real bad blood between Buggy and Shanks until one - ONE - incident, which chanced Buggys life dramatically!
I went back and looked Buggys flashback up. (Chapter 19) Unfortunately I don't have a good English translation for you and I'm too lazy to translate half of the chapter out of the volume from my native langue to English. Aside from that, it would be a translation of a translation, which is always bad. But here is a summary of what happens:
Buggy and Shanks seem to argue a lot about insignificant things based on the comments of the other Roger Pirates, but still got along. Buggy even states, that he would recruit Shanks if he wasn't such a dreamer. Prior to this the Roger Pirates did a raid and Buggy found a treasure map, which he hides from his fellow comrades. Shanks tells Buggy that they found a devil fruit, which has a value of 100 million bellies. Buggy fakes the devil fruit, acts like he eats it and silently enjoys that he was able to fool the others because now he has a treasure map and the devil fruit. Furthermore, he plans to leave the ship and form his own piratecrew. But then Shanks surprise him, Buggy hides the fruit by shoving it into his mouth and Shanks surprise him a second time which cause Buggy to swallow the fruit. Buggy is angered, because he just swallows the fruit and then also lose the treasure map. He jumps after the map, but because he consumed the devil fruit is no longer able to swim and Shanks jumps after him to rescue Buggy.
So Buggy faults Shanks for three things: the loss of the treasure map, that he ate valuable devil fruit, which also results in him losing the ability to swim (and search for treasure by diving - at least this way it is stated in the volume I own.)
Shanks may prove to be a manipulative person; we'll see.
Yes, we'll see.
Just to circle back on this, recall chapter 96: entitled "The Greatest Evil in the East". What do you make of this menacing face, covered in shadow?
That you take the face out of context by ignoring the text and the situation.
Shanks waited for 10 years to finally hear that Luffy set out to sea. Shanks seems to be thrilled/excited to hear from Luffy.
There is nothing menacing.
And you can't say that Roger didn't have the Gomu Gomu no Mi with 100% certainty — that's impossible to prove at this point. However, it is true that we don't know the former consumer of the Gomu Gomu no Mi… nor do we know if Roger had a Devil Fruit. It wouldn't be insane if Roger had it and also made it his own.
Buggy's flashback made it clear that he was the first & only person in the crew with df powers.
I just reread chapter 603, where Rayleigh has his Roger flashback. Roger says "Let's turn the world upside down together!" and says there meeting is fate. I'm really starting to think that the world will literally be turned upside down in some way. His professing a belief in fate gives me two thoughts. First, that he started being a pirate with a higher level of knowledge about the world than Luffy or most other pirates and second, that maybe he's related to Blackbeard, either by how they both have such knowledge, or just actually his father or something. Perhaps Teach was the son he thought would inherit One Piece?
Also, Roger's seeming knowledge makes him like a combination of Luffy and Blackbeard. Blackbeard believes in fate, but also knows things and plans ahead. Luffy is all about the adventure, so much so that I'm very curious how and what will make him even consider becoming the world-changing/prophecied pirate everyone expects him to be. All fascinating stuff.
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I just reread chapter 603, where Rayleigh has his Roger flashback. Roger says "Let's turn the world upside down together!" and says there meeting is fate. I'm really starting to think that the world will literally be turned upside down in some way. His professing a belief in fate gives me two thoughts. First, that he started being a pirate with a higher level of knowledge about the world than Luffy or most other pirates and second, that maybe he's related to Blackbeard, either by how they both have such knowledge, or just actually his father or something. Perhaps Teach was the son he thought would inherit One Piece?
Also, Roger's seeming knowledge makes him like a combination of Luffy and Blackbeard. Blackbeard believes in fate, but also knows things and plans ahead. Luffy is all about the adventure, so much so that I'm very curious how and what will make him even consider becoming the world-changing/prophecied pirate everyone expects him to be. All fascinating stuff.
Roger probably knew jack shit about the world´s secrets at that point, only later he got the knowledge. First time around he did not know about Poneglyphs, One Piece, maybe even Raftel, it´s a general expression that he wanted to shake the world and rise to the top.
I just reread chapter 603, where Rayleigh has his Roger flashback. Roger says "Let's turn the world upside down together!" and says there meeting is fate. I'm really starting to think that the world will literally be turned upside down in some way. His professing a belief in fate gives me two thoughts. First, that he started being a pirate with a higher level of knowledge about the world than Luffy or most other pirates and second, that maybe he's related to Blackbeard, either by how they both have such knowledge, or just actually his father or something. Perhaps Teach was the son he thought would inherit One Piece?
Also, Roger's seeming knowledge makes him like a combination of Luffy and Blackbeard. Blackbeard believes in fate, but also knows things and plans ahead. Luffy is all about the adventure, so much so that I'm very curious how and what will make him even consider becoming the world-changing/prophecied pirate everyone expects him to be. All fascinating stuff.
Roger clearly stated that they found out about Poneglyph after reaching Lodestar. So if he didn't know about poneglyph, he didn't know much about WG or history either.
“When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it–always.”
Roger clearly stated that they found out about Poneglyph after reaching Lodestar. So if he didn't know about poneglyph, he didn't know much about WG or history either.
There's no reason to assume this. I could certainly be wrong in that he was knowledgeable about the world, but not knowing about the True History from the poneglyph doesn't mean he didn't know about some history in some other way. We have no reason to believe that Teach (or many other people) can even decipher poneglyph's right now. We know from SBS that he's a lover of history and would be an archeologist in the real world. Maybe he can read them? Who knows.
Also, the Viz translation at least does not say that he found out about Poneglyph after reaching Lodestar. It definitely seems that he found out about the Road ones at that point, but the way he speaks of them as forbidden by the WG actually suggests that he knew of their existence at the least. Chapter 966, for reference.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Roger probably knew jack shit about the world´s secrets at that point, only later he got the knowledge. First time around he did not know about Poneglyphs, One Piece, maybe even Raftel, it´s a general expression that he wanted to shake the world and rise to the top.
The only thing we know he didn't know was the existence of a final island beyond Lodestar (Laugh Tale) and the Road Poneglyphs needed to find it. You're right in that it could just be a general expression and he didn't have the knowledge, but it's not for certain and Whitebeard saying the same thing gives me an itch that it's what's going to happen. It could also be a phrase that he picked up from other D's, passed down and seemingly innocuous, but meant to foster the type of rebelliousness that they're known for.
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There's no reason to assume this. I could certainly be wrong in that he was knowledgeable about the world, but not knowing about the True History from the poneglyph doesn't mean he didn't know about some history in some other way. We have no reason to believe that Teach (or many other people) can even decipher poneglyph's right now. We know from SBS that he's a lover of history and would be an archeologist in the real world. Maybe he can read them? Who knows.
Also, the Viz translation at least does not say that he found out about Poneglyph after reaching Lodestar. It definitely seems that he found out about the Road ones at that point, but the way he speaks of them as forbidden by the WG actually suggests that he knew of their existence at the least. Chapter 966, for reference.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
The only thing we know he didn't know was the existence of a final island beyond Lodestar (Laugh Tale) and the Road Poneglyphs needed to find it. You're right in that it could just be a general expression and he didn't have the knowledge, but it's not for certain and Whitebeard saying the same thing gives me an itch that it's what's going to happen. It could also be a phrase that he picked up from other D's, passed down and seemingly innocuous, but meant to foster the type of rebelliousness that they're known for.
No we know since he learned about the poneglyphs on the last island before Raftel, and then he needed to start anew, and somewhere around that time, he developed VOAT, which gave him more insight, amd then he went to recruit Oden.
No we know since he learned about the poneglyphs on the last island before Raftel, and then he needed to start anew, and somewhere around that time, he developed VOAT, which gave him more insight, amd then he went to recruit Oden.
Reread the chapter because it just doesn't say that. There's no reason whatsoever to believe he knew nothing about the poneglyphs. There's no reason to assume the VOAT was new after getting to LodeStar. I suppose you can think these things, sure, but when you're saying my theory is impossible because of a head canon not supported by the text, you're in a weird place.
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Poneglyphs are not exactly a secret in the world of OP, iirc.
They're just curiosities of a bygone era, like a statue. Most people don't really care about them the same way most people don't try to find out who carved the busts of the roman emperors.
Not even the WG is trying to erase the poneglyphs from existence just the people who can read them, so that they're never anything more than a silly mistery from some long forgotten civilization.
Roger is said to have visited all the islands in the Grand Line, it would be practically impossible from them to never stumble upon one. But when they get to Lodestar they find out "Oh, so these weird cubic rocks we found from time to time actually mean something, we need to go back and look at them more carefully".
Regarding Luffy and Roger having the same fruit, I'm on the Roger didn't have a fruit or at least not the Gomu Gomu camp. Someone would've said something. Even that mysterious line Luffy shouted in his flashback, when he apparently said the said thing Roger did, was adressed by other characters.
But, I've been thinking that then Gomu Gomu will play an important role in the story and that's why Shanks was looking for it, and it wasn't just some random loot they found.
Giants, the WG, the fallen kingdom, and the lost history are all connected somehow. And Luffy keeps using giant-sized attacks, it keeps the audience thinking about how he'll grow phisically. He even announces it the first time he uses Gear 3 against Lucci: "This arm of mine is now the arm of a giant!"
Now I don't believe that Luffy's final technique or awakening is gonna be him actually becoming a giant and maintaining that form, that could be kinda lame actually, but this giant aspect of him is gonna be very important by the end.
Reread the chapter because it just doesn't say that. There's no reason whatsoever to believe he knew nothing about the poneglyphs. There's no reason to assume the VOAT was new after getting to LodeStar. I suppose you can think these things, sure, but when you're saying my theory is impossible because of a head canon not supported by the text, you're in a weird place.
It does. Roger only started hearing voices on the way to Fishman Island or entering the New World after Fishman Island shown during that arc, he had no idea what was happening.
Here he tells he did not even know a final island existed before getting to Lodestar Island, where he learned what the Poneglyph mean https://s6.mangabeast01.com/manga/One-Piece/0966-008.png
And since he explains about the poneglyphs and One Piece in context to getting to Lodestar Island, you can assume he learned it there https://s6.mangabeast01.com/manga/One-Piece/0966-009.png Also consistent with that Inu said since you learn about the secrets of the Poneglyphs on Lodestar Island, as explained on Zou.
And then they started the journey anew, met Crocus and took him with them, went to Skypeia and he wrote the message onto the Poneglyph (which is consistent with Rayleigh saying he could not actually read them even with VOAT, Oden wrote it technically). And finding the Poneglyph was done with VOAT, since Roger emphasized how he hears them, so he purposely started looking for them after getting VOAT. And he learned about Road Poneglyphs in Wa No and Zou from Oden and Inu/Neko, knew about Big Mom´s and guessed where the fourth one is.
Now you want to claim that Roger knew about all this stuff before, despite only actively looking for Poneglyphs for the last three years of his life or so and despite being a pirate for around three decades (was a rookie 52 years ago at least, maybe before, since Brook remembered him).
Talk about head canon.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Poneglyphs are not exactly a secret in the world of OP, iirc.
They're just curiosities of a bygone era, like a statue. Most people don't really care about them the same way most people don't try to find out who carved the busts of the roman emperors.
Not even the WG is trying to erase the poneglyphs from existence just the people who can read them, so that they're never anything more than a silly mistery from some long forgotten civilization.Roger is said to have visited all the islands in the Grand Line, it would be practically impossible from them to never stumble upon one. But when they get to Lodestar they find out "Oh, so these weird cubic rocks we found from time to time actually mean something, we need to go back and look at them more carefully".
Regarding Luffy and Roger having the same fruit, I'm on the Roger didn't have a fruit or at least not the Gomu Gomu camp. Someone would've said something. Even that mysterious line Luffy shouted in his flashback, when he apparently said the said thing Roger did, was adressed by other characters.
But, I've been thinking that then Gomu Gomu will play an important role in the story and that's why Shanks was looking for it, and it wasn't just some random loot they found.
Giants, the WG, the fallen kingdom, and the lost history are all connected somehow. And Luffy keeps using giant-sized attacks, it keeps the audience thinking about how he'll grow phisically. He even announces it the first time he uses Gear 3 against Lucci: "This arm of mine is now the arm of a giant!"
Now I don't believe that Luffy's final technique or awakening is gonna be him actually becoming a giant and maintaining that form, that could be kinda lame actually, but this giant aspect of him is gonna be very important by the end.
No but what they mean is a secret, that there is a huge secret in the world that nobody knows about, and that the stone could serve as key to that secret.
Like you said, most people barely know anything about history, and thus they are just remnants really.
I have always hated fandoms use of head cannon as an insult.
It's supposed to be a fun term ya'll.
I have always hated fandoms use of head cannon as an insult.
It's supposed to be a fun term ya'll.
Actually sounds like one of Baby 5's attacks
Haven’t you ever asked yourself “why did Oda include this in the SBS”?
Because a reader asked about it.
What you should ask yourself is "why didn't Oda include a living object with a power of a Paramecia or Logia?"
Because a reader asked about it.
What you should ask yourself is "why didn't Oda include a living object with a power of a Paramecia or Logia?"
To butt in, I think he never did that, because it would be lame. A gun or sword which can turn to fire would be kinda pointless, for the story, what's its purpose and so on. Its more fun to draw a sword with the elephant fruit and a gun with the dog fruit. Its just more versatile to combine Zoans with object than Logia or Paramecia, but Oda might just wait for something like that when he introduces Vega Punk.
I feel like, for the sake of Greg's time, we should try to avoid huge theory-making in here. Let's keep talk focused about what Greg goes on the record about in his articles and such and any burning questions, but if you feel the need to write more than a small paragraph about it, consider if it can go in another thread.
Like the Avatar? / Like the Miis?
Dragalia Lost ID: 97617932505
I feel like, for the sake of Greg's time, we should try to avoid huge theory-making in here. Let's keep talk focused about what Greg goes on the record about in his articles and such and any burning questions, but if you feel the need to write more than a small paragraph about it, consider if it can go in another thread.
There are certainly posts longer than mine theorizing what will happen in One Piece throughout this 400+ page thread, but okay.
To put it plainly, Greg, do you think Luffy could be a clone of Roger?
I feel like, for the sake of Greg's time, we should try to avoid huge theory-making in here. Let's keep talk focused about what Greg goes on the record about in his articles and such and any burning questions, but if you feel the need to write more than a small paragraph about it, consider if it can go in another thread.
Thank you thank you thank you thank you.
There are certainly posts longer than mine theorizing what will happen in One Piece throughout this 400+ page thread, but okay.
To put it plainly, Greg, do you think Luffy could be a clone of Roger?
I don’t think he was singling out you, a lot of people do this including me, you just happened to be the most recent
Now that Mihawk is on the run and Geko Moria has turned out to be alive how long do you think it will take for Perona and Gecko Moria to reunite?
To put it plainly, Greg, do you think Luffy could be a clone of Roger?
You can solve this one by asking it to yourself out loud.
You can solve this one by asking it to yourself out loud.
I’m okay waiting for a response from Greg, if any. No response is still a good response
In the meantime, here’s a link for those curious where my head is at.
If King is a sky islander, did he confirm in one of the recent chapters, that sky islanders have the ability to fly?
This is a question not just for Greg, but for any fan, who has insight to this degree.
Until now, I thought sky islanders' wings are like male nipples: totally useless and pointless.
I think I know what King is. But that guess comes as the result of something else I know for a fact that I can't discuss. If I'm right, I'd still be kinda happy because it required putting pieces together rather than flat-out hearing the answer. If I'm wrong I'll try to state so here but obviously I can't comment on it beyond that.
991 was decent. Best part for me was the possibility of Usopp and Nami forming a team battle. I'd kill to see them in action together. Oda will probably dash that dream's head against a wall.
I’m okay waiting for a response from Greg, if any. No response is still a good response
Re: which post?
Re: which post?
Looks like he's gone and you're still here, but this is the post:
@gyuukarubi:
There are certainly posts longer than mine theorizing what will happen in One Piece throughout this 400+ page thread, but okay.
To put it plainly, Greg, do you think Luffy could be a clone of Roger?
He backed it up with all of this it's a lot to read, lol but he's been wanting your thoughts on it for a while.
! @gyuukarubi:
! > Fair enough, but I actually believe that the parallel between Roger and Luffy may even go deeper than we think.Luffy likely is Roger. A clone of him, anyway. That’s why Roger's last words to Rayleigh were that he “won’t die.” Rayleigh knows that Luffy is a clone but is hiding it until Luffy discovers it for himself — since he can’t do anything about it, anyway.
No one else has commented on the fact that the Straw Hat belonged to Roger. Why not?
He probably wore it up until Shanks was born… meaning after the events of God Valley.
I think that Shanks has shown way more agency and cunning for his possession of the Gomu Gomu no Mi to simply be randomly ransacked loot. What were the circumstances that led up to him stealing it from an enemy, anyway? And from whom did he steal it?
Could he have killed the previous consumer and transferred it to another fruit (a la Smiley)?
How did Luffy take the Devil Fruit from a locked box? There clearly was a lock on it. Also, why wasn’t anyone guarding it?
We never see Luffy take it out of a chest; the Gomu Gomu no Mi just appears in his hands. I assume that someone actually gave it to Luffy and it happened off-screen.
Eating a Zoan-type Devil Fruit does not give you another soul, though! The Yomi Yomi no Mi can revive you and the Soul Soul no Mi can give inanimate objects souls after taking them from the living… but this isn’t the same ability.
So how can inanimate objects eat Devil Fruits and come to life without those fruits? Bunbuku-kun is a HUGE hint, despite little screentime. Haven’t you ever asked yourself “why did Oda include this in the SBS”?
It’s okay if you disagree with me! I’ve stated my case. And yes, Big Mom and Kaido are on the WG payroll. To explain:
Former WG scientist, Caesar Crown, is the supplier of chemicals used for nefarious purposes.
Big Mom funds Caesar’s current-day operation. She wants him to help her realize her dream of a world of giants.
- She also forcibly unifies races and powerful families — eventually leading to an alliance between her the Fishmen (the OG rebels against the WG — and the World Government loved that they could control the Fishmen through controlling Big Mom).
Kaido produces and supplies weapons to the WG. He purchases SMILEs for his own use.
Doflamingo served as the middleman, but also deals in human trafficking and produced SMILEs.
The WG allows all of them to operate because they simultaneously benefit from it.
Big Mom, Kaido, Doflamingo, and Caesar were each given government-sanctioned territories and autonomy as a result. It’s no surprise that the Marines are corrupt all around — and the Government controls the flow.
Of course, Big Mom and Kaido have no qualms rebelling against the government and both have aims of world-domination and chaos. The WG has no time for this and are ready to start over.
I think that Shanks knows that Luffy is a clone of Roger. He may have even helped create Luffy — which is why Oda said that mothers aren’t important to the story.
I don't think we can forget that the very first time that Shanks hears about Luffy since departing Windmill Island, he makes this menacing stare in a chapter entitled "The Greatest Evil in the East." We also can't deny this scene. Few have a good explanation for it.
andre coming in clutch! Thanks for providing the helpful context
Even if I’m wrong, it was fun reanalyzing the series with a different perspective. Oda never does what we expect and I tried to think about Luffy’s journey with Woop Slap’s skepticism.
Nothing's 'impossible' in One Piece. (I used to say tentacle porn wasn't possible in OP but then we had that onsen scene)
So, is it possible? Sure.
Is it interesting? I don't think so.
Fans have a tendency to link everything together so that pieces fit nice and tightly but what does that really add to the story? The fact that Luffy is who he is thanks to genes? I'm not sold on it.
But is it possible? Sure.
