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Isn't it possible Oda just forgot the whole thing after East Blue and only remembered at the end of Ennies Lobby?
Greg already said Oda finds them uninteresting, but the absence of Robin so close to Franky and Usopp suggests the answer has to do with Vivi’s return, or perhaps winning her back in another Davy Back Fight, or it simply being another Gomu pun (Chopper and Robin are 5 and 6.)
Isn't it possible Oda just forgot the whole thing after East Blue and only remembered at the end of Ennies Lobby?
Very likely.
Used to assume "Oh he's got a master plan here!" and you can look at it and go "he held Nami's chapter till after Arlong, what a slick move!" but then you realize he also missed Usopp's chapter, and its hard to believe he intentionally held that for TEN YEARS just so it could be combined with another character's chapter later.
And the more we learn about him making up some things on the fly or through happenstance….
I point to this all the time now that we know, but I am NEVER going to get over the fact that the weird looking moutains in Drum weren't designed to be cherry trees, that was literally just something Oda thought about in the final week and that setup happened to be there. For 20 years I'd assumed that was a brilliant bit of planning, but just happenstance. Same with the Vivi farewell and the X-marks, one of THE most iconic moments in the series. "Oh, the entire reason he had them wear those identity badges was so he could eventually do THAT scene!" Nope, it was a week-of decision.
Oda has big master plans, absolutely, he knew Kuma was going to spread the crew and that Ace was going to die the first time those guys were introduced for instance, but a looooot of other stuff is just him flying by the seat of his pants it turns out.
He could probably still manage something with Chopper having to decide to stay with the crew or join with the minks and make that a moment, and sure Robin could get a arc with the Revolutionaries, but after the timeskip it would ring truly hollow for there to have been any doubt. Especially when you have like Brook, who was in the crew for a day before the split, being solid with them forever.
So yeah, he probably just didn't do Chopper and Robin chapter titles at the time because reasons, rather than a master plan for them to maybe pretend to leave later. Especially after we've run that ground with Nami AND Usopp now. If Robin didn't get her number after W7, then when?
That said, whenever we actually get Jinbei's joining scene will be telling.
If Jinbe has a person chapter, it won't tell us anything
it do make me wonder why didnt oda just include Robins xth person chapter together with Usopp and Franky back in w7…
One thing writers do a lot is to just include a bunch of little details and objects so later on they can give those things new meaning and make it look like it was foreshadowing. The Homestuck author called it "retroactive foreshadowing".
Oda seems pretty good at it.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
That said, whenever we actually get Jinbei's joining scene will be telling.
I was under the impression Jinbe's joining scene was that one where he trades drinks with Big Mom.
If Jinbe has a person chapter, it won't tell us anything
It will tell us Oda is still interested in doing those titles and will try to find a place to fill the gaps.
I was under the impression Jinbe's joining scene was that one where he trades drinks with Big Mom.
He still hasn't done the official toast with the crew. Though yes, he's obviously a member now.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
it do make me wonder why didnt oda just include Robins xth person chapter together with Usopp and Franky back in w7…
- "Third and Seventh" (３人目と７人目, "Sanninme to Nananinme")
Because "Third, sixth and seventh" sounds really bad. It really is just an arbitrary checklist at that point. And puts even more pressure on Chopper's missing. And raises issues about exactly when Robin decided she was part of the crew and trusted in them. For which we had "I want to live" from Robin, surely that counts just as well and better than "The sixth person."
It was also speculated at the time it was to leave some ambiguity about where Vivi fit into things, and if Franky was actually 7, which wasn't settled till Brook joined.
Most likely though he either just didn't think of it at the time or felt it was too clunky.
And CHopper… he didn;t have a dedicated join chapter. He had "Hiriluk's Cherry Blossoms" and "On to Alabasta". Neither one would have been a good fit for his "The fifth person" chapter. And is he even a person, really?
And of course in English they completely botched Nami's chapter by translating it as "The Other villain". Ugh. People complain about Zolo but that's the one that annoys me.
Chapter 152 was a dedicated chapter join chapter to Chopper.
Chapter 152 was a dedicated chapter join chapter to Chopper.
That was convincing him. That wasn't the actual join,
That was convincing him. That wasn't the actual join,
Well, this convincing part ended with a "yes", so I count it as a joining scene, and that's clearly the driving force and pay off behind the scene. If it were a self contained film, for instance, that could even be the end.
He can still be interested and to not want to fill the gap
If Oda does do this for jimbei, he absolutely does not have to do it for the other members that didn’t get one lmao. He doesn’t have to retroactively give them a chapter title. Why? Cuz that would make zero sense hundreds of chapters after they joined. Why does this matter to anyone. It’s chapter titles.
I've already posted this some years ago, but now I would like to hear Greg's opinion about this
(Source: chapter 107)
https://ibb.co/nD1PyRG https://ibb.co/fSmNkrh Did Oda really put a subliminal message in his manga??
I'd hardly call it a subliminal message his using the brand of the cigarettes he smokes so many of on the t-shirt of a minor character.
Eh, fuck it.
Haha, yeah, that was pretty common back in the day, using brands sneakily (sometimes boldly). Hardly subliminal. Not even sure if that yas the work of Oda or an assistant. Oda hates blatant real world stuff in the comic.
Although they're not subliminal there are some really awesome hidden messages in One Piece I've found over the years. None of them are of any importance or relation to the story and the majority are not by Oda himself but those will be fun to discuss someday after the series is over and I can safely talk about them.
Chopper and Robin don't having titles are still strange for me.
Yeah I know Vivi but stilk
So there are other hidden messages like that… :blink:
In any case, many thanks for the answer :happy:
Not having a "5th" or "6th" person is definitely a weird one, only because Oda seemed so keen on having the titles properly before AND after these joins. Like Usopp didn't get his truly until Water 7, with Franky. He could have easily made the chapter title "The 3rd, 6th and 7th" but CHOSE to keep Robin out of this.
I do think there is something medical or Revolutionary "plotline" coming up for both of these characters that will advance their stories as crew members.
Perhaps Robin gets kidnapped by Blackbeard or something. Perhaps Chopper's resolve to cure an incurable disease gets fully tested. It does strike me as odd that Oda really hasn't addressed this yet.
Oddest thing of all is that Sanji got his chapter already in Baratie but we still got a plotline of him leaving the crew where his background was expanded anyways.
How can Oda be keen before if he skipped Usopp ?
There is another example of Oda kinda "duped" us:
When we first met Laboon, he had all those scars on his head and Crocus said:"poor whale, tossing his head against the redline, cause he is missing his piwate fwiendz!"
When we saw that school of Laboons after FI, a lot of them had those scars. So either all of them "lost piwate cwew fwiends" OR Crocus misinterpreted Laboons behaviour and that is a common Thing those giant whales do,
which is indicating, that the Redline hasn't Always looked like it does now (being made partially artificial).
Was this not stated that the pod of those whales were Laboon’s family that he was separated from? They’ve bashEd their heads on the Red Line because they’re stuck on opposite sides
Oddest thing of all is that Sanji got his chapter already in Baratie but we still got a plotline of him leaving the crew where his background was expanded anyways.
To be fair, him leaving the crew was completely due to personal issues and not about him finding his place in the crew. Contrast that to Nami and Usopp, who both got their number chapters later on. Nami only truly became a member of the crew after Luffy defeated Arlong, so this is a clear cut case. Usopp's case is a bit more complicated. Of course he already was a true crewmember before Water 7 BUT him leaving was all about his own self-worth in general, but especially tied to his role in the crew. In short, Usopp felt like a useless member, like he didn't add anything to the crew and I don't think that before this happened, he ever truly bought his role as the crew's sniper. This is why it was integral to him really coming into his own and realising his usefulness and special role in the crew that his big hero moment in Enies Lobby wasn't a fighting moment but an impressive sniping feat (his secret hero identity name being 'Sniper King' also points to that). So while Usopp technically was a crew member beforehand, he only truly embraced his place in the crew after the events of the Water 7/Enies Lobby saga, and that's when he got his number chapter.
Robin's case is quite similar to Namis; while she bonded with the crew during the Sykpiea saga, I doubt that before Enies Lobby she truly felt like a member of the crew, because her whole life before she met the Strawhats basically consisted of going from one organisation/group to the next. Even though she really started loving being part of the Strawhats and spending time with them, I'm sure deep in her mind, there was always a voice telling her that this wouldn't last, that soon, she would be abandoned like she had been her whole life. It took the crew declaring war on the world to convince her that, no, those people will never leave her side, no matter who the enemy is, and that she has finally found the friends she was always looking for. And that's why it's weird she didn't get her chapter number along with Franky and Usopp, when it really would have been no hassle for Oda to change the title to "The Third, the Sixth and the Seventh". But he didn't, and that is very peculiar.
As I said, Sanji is a very different case because him leaving was all about his past and his personal demons, but not at all about his place in or his relationship with the crew.
@Gia:
He could have easily made the chapter title "The 3rd, 6th and 7th" but CHOSE to keep Robin out of this.
OR Oda felt that title would be clunky.
OR Oda wanted to keep it a question for readers as to who exactly was 7, and where Vivi fit in things.
OR Oda is human and just didn't think about it and felt an earlier chapter covered Robin, same as Chopper.
OR any number of other things.
Just because Oda didn't do a chapter title of all things the way we'd expect doesn't mean he actually has a secret future plan around that minutia, the same way the last crew member doesnt HAVE to have the 2.9 fruit but he's clearly toyyed with it this point given Kinemon and such.
Zoro's gotten two different chapters dedicated to him being a crew member, once after Axe hand and once against Kuma. No one else has done that.
Luffy and Sanji are currently the only ones that have had two flashbacks. There's certainly room for Jinbe and Brook to have another one, theres a big blank spot on their histories to flesh out, but it doesn't mean everyone is going to get one.
But most importantly, if Oda is bored of the system because its too predictable, then… he's bored of it.
OR Oda felt that title would be clunky.
OR Oda wanted to keep it a question for readers as to who exactly was 7, and where Vivi fit in things.
OR Oda is human and just didn't think about it and felt an earlier chapter covered Robin, same as Chopper.
OR any number of other things.
Just because Oda didn't do a chapter title of all things the way we'd expect doesn't mean he actually has a secret future plan around that minutia, the same way the last crew member doesnt HAVE to have the 2.9 fruit but he's clearly toyyed with it this point given Kinemon and such.
Zoro's gotten two different chapters dedicated to him being a crew member, once after Axe hand and once against Kuma. No one else has done that.
Luffy and Sanji are currently the only ones that have had two flashbacks. There's certainly room for Jinbe and Brook to have another one, theres a big blank spot on their histories to flesh out, but it doesn't mean everyone is going to get one.
But most importantly, if Oda is bored of the system because its too predictable, then… he's bored of it.
Or Oda is hinting that Robin isn’t to be fully trusted yet. Full circle 
Though I did like the supposition of another ゴム pun, which makes total sense!
I’ll stick with my suspicions of “Grin Robin.”
No, it doesn't make sense. Did you read Einess Loby?
No, it doesn't make sense. Did you read Einess Loby?
I have, but welcome dissent! Could you please make your argument with screenshots from the manga serving as citations? That would be super helpful… I’m really looking forward to reading your post 
I have, but welcome dissent! Could you please make your argument with screenshots from the manga serving as citations? That would be super helpful… I’m really looking forward to reading your post
Maybe pictoral evidence isn't necessary for every argument we make here?
I think the point is, Robin saw for herself how much she meant to the crew, and she returned the favor through her resolve to live and escape when she was once resigned to die. There's no evidence to suggest she's questioning their bond now.
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I have a crackpot theory
Gastino is stowed a way on Bege’s ship. We find out in the cover story then off they sail.
What if Queen (and the upper surviving Beast Pirates before making their move away from Onigashima) drops a bomb on everyone after a lot of fights/struggle and that incapacitates most (/nearly all) the alliance but even devastates a lot of Kaido’s own forces both Pleasures and Gifters. Gastino and Bege arrive on Old Onigashima in the next morning to clear the “Plague” (gas/bomb). With Law and Chopper helping overcome the plague here and someone learning how to combat Queen for the rematch.
The Alliance regroup, rest and recover a day. Sanji makes a 99 Recipe Recover and Strength boost meal. Zoro gets Nidai Kitetsu. Tama makes some loyal Gifters and powerful Headliners (named level Smile users :ninja:) Then onto saving Wano.
But it could be repetitive to what occurred in Zou with Caesar
Maybe pictoral evidence isn't necessary for every argument we make here?
I think the point is, Robin saw for herself how much she meant to the crew, and she returned the favor through her resolve to live and escape when she was once resigned to die. There's no evidence to suggest she's questioning their bond now.
Remember the chapters just before the timeskip? Robin refusing the revolutionaries’ offer because she already has a crew? Or finding amusing that she never thought of becoming stronger for the sake of others before. Robin’s 100% nakama.
Maybe pictoral evidence isn't necessary for every argument we make here?
I think the point is, Robin saw for herself how much she meant to the crew, and she returned the favor through her resolve to live and escape when she was once resigned to die. There's no evidence to suggest she's questioning their bond now.
I remember those moments, but explicit evidence is more compelling to me than anecdotal recaps! I ask because I’m willing to do the same as a courtesy and would hope for others to follow suit
Remember the chapters just before the timeskip? Robin refusing the revolutionaries’ offer because she already has a crew? Or finding amusing that she never thought of becoming stronger for the sake of others before. Robin’s 100% nakama.
I think you can actually read these situations in multiple ways! Screenshot them and I’ll explain
Respectfully. In my view, there is absolutely no chance whatsoever that Robin in the future will betray the crew, without also betraying the spirit of the manga thus far.
You have to selectively ignore a whole lot of current (and enduring!) evidence of her loyalty to the crew, to arrive at the scant “proof” of her disloyalty to it.
I don’t need more words than this to convey my certainty.
guys. why y'all getting baited into this again. What's needed to be said on this theory has already been said.
If anything, this belongs in the Theories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread.
How many more pages does this Robin discussion really need in here?
Must we really entertain it in one of the few places where we have direct access to a series superfan who can offer insight on things that are actually happening in this manga?
Just because something can be interpreted differently doesn’t mean it’s meant to be. You can interpret any sentence ever said by anyone differently than another person does. Actually, you know what… when luffy says he’s going to be pirate king I think he’s lying.
Seriously though, your points rely solely on “I interpret it differently because I want this to be the case”. Where is the actual evidence to support your claim? There is plenty of material that very clearly very plainly shows how robin is a fully fledged member of the crew, and you dismiss it. What is the point.
Ok, lets suppose you are right and all this Robin is evil foreshadowing is real. Wouldn’t her eines loby betrayal be enough payoff for that?
The theory frankly just feels like being contrarian for the sake of it.
Greg, is it possible to get yours or Stephen's take on Oda's Vol 97 SBS answers regarding "5 years left"? Some translations seem to interpret it as (super diluted summary forgive me) "There are 5 years remaining and the story will end once One Piece is found", while others seem to interpret it as "Serialization will not end after 5 years, but Luffy's "journey" will by finding One Piece will", indicating there is more likely more story to be told (i.e. The "Grand" War that is mentioned).
If we read closely to Whitebeard, Rayleigh and Roger's conversations about "One Piece", it pretty much specifies that the person who finds this treasure will "challenge the world" AFTER it is found. This would also point to why Rayleigh and Roger claim they were "too early". It seems the process of "challenging the world" comes from knowing what One Piece is. Doesn't that by default, if we are to assume Oda will follow this structure, mean that the second translation/interpretation is more likely correct?
I remember those moments, but explicit evidence is more compelling to me than anecdotal recaps! I ask because I’m willing to do the same as a courtesy and would hope for others to follow suit
I think you can actually read these situations in multiple ways! Screenshot them and I’ll explain
Look, I'll be frank: no one is obligated to provide screencaps to you, and asking for them to prove every point seems a bit disingenuous. Not to mention we're trying to discourage piracy, and folks may not have access to images from the books to produce at a moment's notice. You're free to use manga panels in your own arguments, but that's strictly your own business. Let others present their arguments how they choose.
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I don't think Robin is going to betray the crew, but I am curious about Law's motives. He didn't join the Fleet and its hard to really see him as having ambitions towards being Pirate King or anything of the sort so I don't quite understand why he's still pursuing Kaido? It could be as thank you for Luffy's defeating Doflamingo, but I'm not so sure. Anyone have thoughts?
Just because something can be interpreted differently doesn’t mean it’s meant to be. You can interpret any sentence ever said by anyone differently than another person does. Actually, you know what… when luffy says he’s going to be pirate king I think he’s lying.
Seriously though, your points rely solely on “I interpret it differently because I want this to be the case”. Where is the actual evidence to support your claim? There is plenty of material that very clearly very plainly shows how robin is a fully fledged member of the crew, and you dismiss it. What is the point.
I’ve actually provided screencaps to support my claims. Has anyone else done the same? I’m willing to engage in this debate, but not if others refuse to do the work to prove their own.
Just to briefly digress, I actually believe that Blackbeard has a good chance of becoming Pirate King before Luffy.
Ok, lets suppose you are right and all this Robin is evil foreshadowing is real. Wouldn’t her eines loby betrayal be enough payoff for that?
Not necessarily. What are her true goals in uncovering history? Revolution? Destruction? Power?
The theory frankly just feels like being contrarian for the sake of it.
You’re entitled to your opinions, as am I
Look, I'll be frank: no one is obligated to provide screencaps to you, and asking for them to prove every point seems a bit disingenuous. Not to mention we're trying to discourage piracy, and folks may not have access to images from the books to produce at a moment's notice. You're free to use manga panels in your own arguments, but that's strictly your own business. Let others present their arguments how they choose.
Of course no one is obligated — I mentioned that it was a courtesy, did I not? The only reason you’re interpreting this as disingenuous is because you want to believe that’s my intent. This couldn’t be further from the truth — I’m asking for reciprocity. If I don’t receive it, I hope that you understand it’s just as easy for me to dismiss others’ claims as they’ve dismissed mine. Such is the fun of theorizing
I’ve actually provided screencaps to support my claims. Has anyone else done the same? I’m willing to engage in this debate, but not if others refuse to do the work to prove their own.
Of course no one is obligated
There it is. Argue how you want, let others do the same, pictures or no.
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There it is. Argue how you want, let others do the same, pictures or no.
A request isn’t an obligation
Simply put, I hope someone puts in the effort! It’s greatly appreciated. If not, then we can simply end the debate here and wait. My position hasn’t changed since I first posted and it likely won’t.
A request isn’t an obligation
Simply put, I hope someone puts in the effort! It’s greatly appreciated. If not, then we can simply end the debate here and wait. My position hasn’t changed since I first posted and it likely won’t.
The thing is, you're arguing against the notion that 99% of readers have. The burden of proof to change everyone's opinion is entirely on you, because you're the only member of your choir.
Sounds like one hell of a misread to me.
The thing is, you're arguing against the notion that 99% of readers have. The burden of proof to change everyone's opinion is entirely on you, because you're the only member of your choir.
Yes, I am fully aware that I am arguing against 99% of the fanbase on this. That doesn’t concern me and I’ve mentioned at least three separate times in this thread that “I could be wrong.” But others keep bringing the topic up, so I’m just giving my 2c.
@wolfwood You’re free to disagree! I’m just stating what I’ve observed.
Yes, I am fully aware that I am arguing against 99% of the fanbase on this. That doesn’t concern me and I’ve mentioned at least three separate times in this thread that “I could be wrong.” But others keep bringing the topic up, so I’m just giving my 2c.
@wolfwood You’re free to disagree! I’m just stating what I’ve observed.
Right, but it's not about you being wrong or right, it's about you expecting anyone to put as much effort into proving what seems obvious to so many people right as what you're saying wrong. If you actually desire decent conversation, you should post this as its own theory, in its own thread (or at least in the theory thread), with lots of evidence. It'd be like me posting that Luffy actually wants to be a Marine admiral and expecting everyone else to dig up the many times he very directly states his objective after posting a few pictures in scattered posts. Expecting someone else to dig up everything I've said in every instance about something so seemingly far away from the truth begs for people to be dismissive. Burden of Proof isn't just a meme, it's a legitimately important part of how we have conversations and create new normals.
Right, but it's not about you being wrong or right, it's about you expecting anyone to put as much effort into proving what seems obvious to so many people right as what you're saying wrong. If you actually desire decent conversation, you should post this as its own theory, in its own thread (or at least in the theory thread), with lots of evidence. It'd be like me posting that Luffy actually wants to be a Marine admiral and expecting everyone else to dig up the many times he very directly states his objective after posting a few pictures in scattered posts. Expecting someone else to dig up everything I've said in every instance about something so seemingly far away from the truth begs for people to be dismissive. Burden of Proof isn't just a meme, it's a legitimately important part of how we have conversations and create new normals.
Fair enough. I’ll expand upon this when I get a chance (with photos)
Fair enough. I’ll expand upon this when I get a chance (with photos)
Sweet. Look forward to reading it! We need as much conversation-worthy stuff as possible as we get deeper into the story and the breaks keep coming!
stephen or Greg clearing up that SBS 97 would be dope
Greg on Twitter:
Did we know that Zoro left his village bc pirates attacked it and he left to collect the bounty 'cuz why not'? I remember he couldn't get back to the village but don't recall w/o checking if it was bc Shimotsuki was attacked. Either way, yeah, that's why he left! I feel like I heard this years ago as a fake spoiler/joke, but was this ever mentioned before in the manga because that is crazy and I think i'd remember something like that.
WOAH!!! Just reread chapter 988
Did king fly with his regular wings?!?!? Not the animal or hybrid mode?
I'm pretty sure skypieans can't do that, which means I was correct that he was a different race entirely
which made the most sense to me,
1: why would Judge have pointed out only the lack of giants and not the Skypieans
2: why would Oda have Big Mom say it in such a way that left an air of mystery to it, if he had already introduced us to that race
now the question is what type of mythological creatures have wings that can fly? I've always hoped that fairies were a race in One Piece but his wings look nothing like that….. hell maybe it's something Oda made up?
what do you guys think his race is
Big Mum already said he is from a race she doesn't have yet.
