Onimaru and Devon's transformations are kind of similar. Devon is a Mythical Zoan as well
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Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !
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But we have seen myths exist all on their own havent we? There is sphinx island
Sphinx is a creature mash-up. That concept is almost as old as the series.
we have had we have had things like the going marry having spirit in it(Kblauterman) and repairing itself,
The spirit of Merry is definitely something mystical. Doesn't mean shape-shifters exist. I'm not saying mystical things can't happen in this world, just that there seem to be lines Oda will and won't cross.
and in regards to wano we have The Tengus(plus dont they count as youkai?)
There are no tengu in Wano.
You mean Hitetsu? Hitetsu is wearing a mask. And those wings (if real) could just as easily be genetic leftovers from a sky race.
We seen the southbird be able to control insects in Jaya
That's communication. Not mysticism.
The denden mushi have psychic abilities which is why people are able to communicate through them.
Dendenmushi are a means to an end, not intended to add an aura of mysticism.
Plus onimarus transformation transitioning of having smoke isnt like the other zoans we have seen.
See above post. And even if that wasn't the case, seeing one, two or ten doesn't mean anything if Oda wants a certain fruit to act a certain way.
That aside….
We have a transforming Buddha.
Onimaru can choose to look like anything and just so happens to transform into another Buddhist figure?
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Greg, given OP’s focus on smiles (SMILE; the concept of dying with a smile; maybe D), does the ニコ in ニコ・ロビン refer to it as well? “Smilin’ Robin”?
Stampede taught me that we still probably shouldn’t fully trust her.
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Non canon material taught you that you shouldnt trust someone who has shown literally 0 signs of potential betrayal since the crew went through enies lobby?? Like after all that you really think there’s even a slight chance she’s gonna betray them??
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Right, especially considering she has had the option of having her dream told to her and made the hard choice to wait it out and trust in Luffy instead. I can't imagine anything that would cause her to break.
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Heck, if the straw hats didn't chase after her when they did during W7, she'd just be dead, and being dead makes it very to hard betray anyone.
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Ok, we have Kanjuro, who did something like that, but he feels so "off", specially in how easy it would have been to trade places with an ink clone on dire moments, that he's the exception not the rule.
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Robin follows what interest her. Luffy made her curious and gained her admiration when he saved her. Kanjuro came with straight up malice. That malice fueled his performance. That's why that blob like form mirrors how he was like an empty canvas with a need of purpose that Orochi gave him. It also served as mystique to not reveal him right away. I don't see how Robin and Kanjuro are similar.
I always felt that Kanjuro's bland and lack of focus was more of an indicator of being an infiltrator than anything. As much as Raizo's focus and origin was "I can't get girls", he still had the larger than life intro with the Mink's loyalty, "nin nin you're a ninja" and being detained to the first shown Red PG. Add to all that that he's tied to a group that is said to be crucial to Wano in the Oniwabanshu. The most interesting moment is when he stopped Denjiro from stating fully that they would died with Oden and he instead said that they would carry on his wish.
Yeah, Kanjuro was just THERE for it and that to me was it. The only thing I can compare to Robin was that they both purposely put themselves in their respective group beyond reasoning that Oden and Luffy could understand at the time. Robin is so curious about the D. but she knows more to an extent that Luffy might not care for immediately.
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I can see the comparison before Enies Lobby, but I think, like Zoro, she's nestled her ambition into Luffy's. The only purpose both of them had was their goal but Luffy's charisma sucked their goals into his own. Kanjuro had nothing before being formed by Orochi's own ambition. Oda has an opportunity to do something real interesting with those two and their relationship.
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When Kanjuro first appeared I didn't think much of him because since Kinemon was the main samurai and had already presented most of the samurai's character quirks, of curse subsequent samurai would look less interesting in comparison. Kanjuro had unique design and a cool devil fruit. Raizo was similar. So it was fine.
But then we started speculating about a traitor and it dawned on me that the later introduced scabbards were all much more interesting than Kanjuro and Raizo. Ashura Doji and Kawamatsu had flashbacks. Dog and Cat had their own kingdom and arc. Even Kiku was a little flat but had more focus than those two and the transgender thing make me think Oda wouldn't waste her like that. And Kinemon was the protagonist. There was also Shinobu, but it felt two obvious. So my first guess was either Kanjuro or Raizo.
Turns out Oda rarely makes a character intending for them to be uninsteresting. Kanjuro had no personality because he's an actual traitor. And Raizo has gotten some development lately, showing he has a beef with Jack. By making Kanjuro a traitor he made him much more memorable.
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I still question why Kaido sliced Orochi in half. I'm not buying that he's just more serious about the war now and doesn't need his figurehead anymore. I suspect it's a message to the WG because Orochi seem like the one who did business with them. Kaido can't get his war if the WG are still doing biz with his figurehead. Best move was to prove there isn't anymore common interest in the slightest. I don't think Akainu staying out of Wano is fully because of his reasoning. Might be the Gorosei making that call. If the WG gets that message and how they respond to it will be telling if there was more to the attack and a call to replace Orochi.
Yamato doesn't even have to care to rule Wano. The fact that the WG wouldn't get their resource like with Orochi is enough to send the message. Kaido united with his old nakama after the WG had severed the Warlord system. Now did he know or not when making that decision is relevant to me. If you want to fight someone and they drop their knife for a weapon that you haven't seen before, you have to rethink your strategy. Due to the nature of Kaido, he might not even care about strategy that much and takes it as "ok, i'll do something unpredictable too". Could that be the key to the Rocks reunion? Kaido swore he'd kill Linlin. They clashed and now are friends again. Too many conveniences. Oda is up to something.
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Non canon material taught you that you shouldnt trust someone who has shown literally 0 signs of potential betrayal since the crew went through enies lobby?? Like after all that you really think there’s even a slight chance she’s gonna betray them??
yup ¯_(ツ)_/¯
could be wrong, but hey. i’m a voice of dissent against popular opinion
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yup ¯_(ツ)_/¯
could be wrong, but hey. i’m a voice of dissent against popular opinion
Nah that wouldn't make sense at all. I can't believe it's even being discussed. Robin had her arc and if she wanted to betray the SHs, she would've fled and let the CP9 capture the SHs but she sacrificed herself for them. She might have joined for her interest but it totally changed after the spent time with them.
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Nah that wouldn't make sense at all. I can't believe it's even being discussed. Robin had her arc and if she wanted to betray the SHs, she would've fled and let the CP9 capture the SHs but she sacrificed herself for them. She might have joined for her interest but it totally changed after the spent time with them.
What else has Robin never declared and is the only Straw Hat not to do so (aside from Franky)?
“Luffy is the man who will become Pirate King!”
That’s intentional. Alongside her not being “the sixth.”
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What else has Robin never declared and is the only Straw Hat not to do so (aside from Franky)?
“Luffy is the man who will become Pirate King!”
That’s intentional. Alongside her not being “the sixth.”
Dressrosa, when Robin helped Cavendish and Bartolomeo, don't remember the chapter. She made a whole speech about trusting Luffy and being a strawhat.
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I believe there is something Revolutionary-centric with Robin in the future. Clearly she thinks about Kuma and never told Luffy about Sabo. I dont think these are negative actions, but I do think she's entirely privvy to info that nobody else knows about when it comes to the Revo's goals. Perhaps her official joining will happen then, and perhaps that was Oda's plan all along.
The only thing that gets me is Chopper never had it either. I feel like this was also intentional
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Dressrosa, when Robin helped Cavendish and Bartolomeo, don't remember the chapter. She made a whole speech about trusting Luffy and being a strawhat.
Not “Luffy is the man who will become Pirate King,” but “trump card.” An advantageous hand.
@Gia:
The only thing that gets me is Chopper never had it either. I feel like this was also intentional
I have no clue WHAT Oda is doing with Chopper. Will he become a monster? Will he die? Given the environmentalist undertones and the fact that he’s a reindeer. People still eat those. I’d love to be wrong on this one though.
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What else has Robin never declared and is the only Straw Hat not to do so (aside from Franky)?
“Luffy is the man who will become Pirate King!”
That’s intentional. Alongside her not being “the sixth.”
I get that point of view, but considering her story with Luffy and the Strawhats (she was willing to sacrifice her life for them, they were willing to sacrifice their life for her, she literally shouted I WANT TO LIVE TAKE ME TO THE SEA WITH YOU) it feels more like Oda is still waiting or prepping the scene/chapter when she declares Luffy to the Pirate King and gets called the sixth.
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(Not to interrupt)
Greggg can you suggest "Reign in Blood" (the album) by Slayer to Oda for a possible listen, it goes so well with the Wano war.
Croc or Enel would never.Wanna see the "ancient civilization destroyed" thing done really well? FFXIV did a great take on it. The bar's high for One Piece to beat.
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I get that point of view, but considering her story with Luffy and the Strawhats (she was willing to sacrifice her life for them, they were willing to sacrifice their life for her, she literally shouted I WANT TO LIVE TAKE ME TO THE SEA WITH YOU) it feels more like Oda is still waiting or prepping the scene/chapter when she declares Luffy to the Pirate King and gets called the sixth.
I understand that, but I still think we may be able to doubt Robin’s stated intentions. Reread Ch. 392… Saul teaches Robin how to hide her true emotions when she’s 8. She does this again as she sails away from Ohara and it’s clear that the behavior is learned.
For 20 years, Robin learned not to trust anyone and to hide her true feelings (ニコ), eventually betraying her comrades. Will this be any different?
More questions:
- Are the Rumbar Pirates somehow connected to Olvia? Their decimation is reminiscent of her crew's and they're from the West Blue. The captain also has a cowboy hat like Yorki.
- Was Ohara really a stronghold of the Revolutionary Army?
- Who is Olvia’s husband? What mystery were they trying to solve?
- Olvia in ch. 393: “I am a scholar of Ohara. I cannot abandon the will of those who came before me!” Who?
- The World Govt. accused Ohara of plotting to destroy the world. Does this tie to the oft repeated “The One Piece will turn this world upside down”?
- How many people understand what occurred during the Void Century? Spandine? Clover? Olvia?
- Robin read the Ohara poneglyph, presumably about the Void Century. What did she learn?
- What did Olvia tell Saul for him to revolt?
- Why did Spandine try to take Olvia into custody instead of killing her? He said she knew something else that remains unrevealed.
- What’s inside Ohara’s remaining books in the lake? Are there more survivors?
- In Ch. 507, Robin questions Rayleigh about the Void Century. Her heart started pounding. Out of excitement or fear? Ohara was said to be trying to revive the ancient weapons. Perhaps she knows more than she lets on.
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“Will this be any different?” Hasnt everything since enies lobby, and even enies lobby itself, showed that this case IS different? Instead of letting the crew die to make her escape she tried to sacrifice herself so they’d be safe. Until she said “I want to live” she was dead set on dying so they could escape. It’s almost like you’re just completely dismissing the emotional arc she went through. It really seems like you’re missing the point. Point being, that she finally HAS found those friends who care about her, just like Saul said she would. Nothing you said backs up your claim at all. If you think robin can’t be trusted at nearly 1000 chapters in please go back and re read water7+enies lobby.
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“Will this be any different?” Hasnt everything since enies lobby, and even enies lobby itself, showed that this case IS different? Instead of letting the crew die to make her escape she tried to sacrifice herself so they’d be safe. Until she said “I want to live” she was dead set on dying so they could escape. It’s almost like you’re just completely dismissing the emotional arc she went through. It really seems like you’re missing the point. Point being, that she finally HAS found those friends who care about her, just like Saul said she would. Nothing you said backs up your claim at all. If you think robin can’t be trusted at nearly 1000 chapters in please go back and re read water7+enies lobby.
Kanjuro played his role for 20 years and no man was suspicious of him. Pudding deceived Sanji. Liars exist.
I think that Robin is betting on Luffy because of who he is. She understands something about the Will of D… she’s mentioned it to Luffy (after saving him from being buried alive in Alabasta) and Rayleigh (in Sabaody).
She first learned of D from Sauro, but Robin read the Poneglyph sometime between meeting Sauro and the destruction of Ohara. What did that poneglyph say?
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Yea I think you’re really misunderstanding her character arc in enies lobby lmao. If you don’t realize that luffy and the crew are those friends that will protect her, that with them is the safe space she’s been looking for, then idek what to tell you.
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We didn't get glimpses at what Kanjuro was thinking. While for Robin we got full monlogues. We also got to see her past and learn what her motivations are, while Kanjuro only got to be a secondary character in the Oden sotry, which allowed him to deviate from the group's motivation without us knowing. His time before meeting Oden was purposedly hidden, while for Robin we got to see her entire life.
The level of characterization Robin and Kanjuro got doesn't compare. There is no room for Robin to turn evil because that must contradict the 22 years of footage of her life that we got to see.
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Yea I think you’re really misunderstanding her character arc in enies lobby lmao. If you don’t realize that luffy and the crew are those friends that will protect her, that with them is the safe space she’s been looking for, then idek what to tell you.
I recommend that you reread One Piece and take a look at Robin’s agency throughout
The fact remains that she’s read the Ohara poneglyph, which we still do not understand to this day. However, this implies that Robin knows about both the ancient kingdom and the void century. Why hasn’t she discussed it with the crew?
We didn't get glimpses at what Kanjuro was thinking. While for Robin we got full monlogues. We also got to see her past and learn what her motivations are, while Kanjuro only got to be a secondary character in the Oden sotry, which allowed him to deviate from the group's motivation without us knowing. His time before meeting Oden was purposedly hidden, while for Robin we got to see her entire life.
The level of characterization Robin and Kanjuro got doesn't compare. There is no room for Robin to turn evil because that must contradict the 22 years of footage of her life that we got to see.
How often has Robin revealed her true feelings? I think she likes the Straw Hats enough, but still may betray them based on whatever she knows. I could be wrong, but she still holds secrets.
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I can't see Robin betraying them after everything they've gone through lol. I could see her maybe having some secret mission she's carrying out as a favor for Dragon on the way, but she's clearly on board with Pirate King Luffy. If she's witholding information, it's because it just isn't relevant to bring up on-panel yet.
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Given Franky is the seventh, what can Robin be beside the sixth ? I really don't think these missing chapter numbers are that important
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I recommend that you reread One Piece and take a look at Robin’s agency throughout
The fact remains that she’s read the Ohara poneglyph, which we still do not understand to this day. However, this implies that Robin knows about both the ancient kingdom and the void century. Why hasn’t she discussed it with the crew?
How often has Robin revealed her true feelings? I think she likes the Straw Hats enough, but still may betray them based on whatever she knows. I could be wrong, but she still holds secrets.
She hasn't discussed her dreams with the crew?
They know she's looking for the ponygliphs because she wants to learn the history of the world. The crew may not care about every aspect of said history but they care about her and helping her reach her dream with their voyages. And she has commented the strange will people of the D. have, but Luffy certainly doesn't care about that, boy didn't even realize or care he had a father until Garp told him.Robin is a bit of a reclusive character, mostly because of her story, she had to be reclusive to survive, so she stands out when the crew is goofing off but you can't ignore that she's much warmer than she was when she joined. All of her character arc through out the series is about how she learned to actually trust the crew and let some defenses down around them. So yes, alot of those points about Ohara are valid and I agree once we get to the Revolutionaries we'll see more of her past or even Ohara before she was born, and I can roll with her still having a couple of secrets or personal things she hasn't revealed that will become important later on, but having said secrets be something that hurts the Strawhats because she will betray them, the only group she never betrayed or was betrayed by since she left Ohara 20 years ago, just for a twist factor is poor poor writing.
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I can't see Robin betraying them after everything they've gone through lol. I could see her maybe having some secret mission she's carrying out as a favor for Dragon on the way, but she's clearly on board with Pirate King Luffy. If she's witholding information, it's because it just isn't relevant to bring up on-panel yet.
I think that Robin has placed her bets on Luffy given his ability to make the impossible, possible. But she easily could have stopped. She attempted to leave in Water 7 and could also have left after Sabaody… if she didn’t loop with the Revolutionary Army, who I’m sure informed her of Kuma’s plan.
Given Franky is the seventh, what can Robin be beside the sixth ? I really don't think these missing chapter numbers are that important
Maybe not, but Brook got “the eighth” and I’d wager Jimbei gets “the ninth” at the end of this arc.
She hasn't discussed her dreams with the crew?
They know she's looking for the ponygliphs because she wants to learn the history of the world.This is partially complete. What you’re missing is the “what” and “why” part of Robin’s agency.
Why does Robin want to understand the true history of the world?
Is it to continue the legacy of the scholars of Ohara? Well, we still have some questions:
- What information specifically was so devastating that the World Government sought to eradicate Ohara?
- What is Ohara's link to the Revolutionary Army?
- What was on the Ohara Poneglyph? Information about the Ancient Kingdom and the Void Century, for sure… and Robin confirms that she's read it by the end of her flashback
- What's up with the books in the lake of Ohara?
- What other piece of information did Olvia learn that Spandine wanted so badly?
It goes on. There are too many questions about “motive” and “intent” for us to count Robin out — especially since we have no clue how the Buster Call at Ohara might have warped her mentality.
The crew may not care about every aspect of said history but they care about her and helping her reach her dream with their voyages. And she has commented the strange will people of the D. have, but Luffy certainly doesn't care about that, boy didn't even realize or care he had a father until Garp told him.
I actually believe that this is too simplistic a view of what’s going on here. It undermines the true impact of those of D — as well as how external forces aim to keep them ignorant and out of power.
Sauro is a good example of this. Indoctrinated by the marines and taught to deny his heritage, he only knows that he’s not supposed to look into it.
Yet Olvia managed to make him a turncoat with one encounter. How? Why? History plays a large role.
Robin is a bit of a reclusive character, mostly because of her story, she had to be reclusive to survive, so she stands out when the crew is goofing off but you can't ignore that she's much warmer than she was when she joined. All of her character arc through out the series is about how she learned to actually trust the crew and let some defenses down around them. So yes, alot of those points about Ohara are valid and I agree once we get to the Revolutionaries we'll see more of her past or even Ohara before she was born, and I can roll with her still having a couple of secrets or personal things she hasn't revealed that will become important later on, but having said secrets be something that hurts the Strawhats because she will betray them, the only group she never betrayed or was betrayed by since she left Ohara 20 years ago, just for a twist factor is poor poor writing.
Subjectivity of “poor writing” aside, I think you should consider Robin’s most formative experiences in the series and how they affected her as a character.
Robin was taught not to trust people. Her mother abandoned her, her guardian abused her, the townspeople called her a freak… and those she trusted were all killed right in front of her.
The only thing she was taught was about the true history... which she learned, despite the scholars of Ohara outright trying to prevent that from happening. Because it put a target on her back and also taught her things she was too young to understand.
Sauro taught her to smile when everything is terrible so that she FEELS happy... essentially training her on how to hide her emotions and lie. “Nico” means “smile” in Japanese.
Smiling Robin. Her mask is her smile; hence the cover of volume 41.
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Maybe not what ? Robin IS the sixth. It's just there is no chapter named the sixth person
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You know Oda could very well do a robin chapter (most likely against one of Blackbeard's mate) throw some flashbacks in and call it the sixth and it won't matter and will still work.
Why the overthink is beyond me
Saying robin will betray the strawhats is likely the most surreal thing I've read this week -
Maybe not what ? Robin IS the sixth. It's just there is no chapter named the sixth person
Usopp wasn’t REALLY the third until after Enies Lobby — just like how Nami wasn’t REALLY the second until after Arlong Park. You get my drift?
Robin might not even be the sixth at all — it could be Vivi.
You know Oda could very well do a robin chapter (most likely against one of Blackbeard's mate) throw some flashbacks in and call it the sixth and it won't matter and will still work.
Why the overthink is beyond me
Saying robin will betray the strawhats is likely the most surreal thing I've read this weekLike I’ve said several times, I could be wrong!
But I’m pretty confident that I’m not entirely
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I think that Robin has placed her bets on Luffy given his ability to make the impossible, possible. But she easily could have stopped. She attempted to leave in Water 7 and could also have left after Sabaody… if she didn’t loop with the Revolutionary Army, who I’m sure informed her of Kuma’s plan.
Maybe not, but Brook got “the eighth” and I’d wager Jimbei gets “the ninth” at the end of this arc.
This is partially complete. What you’re missing is the “what” and “why” part of Robin’s agency.
Why does Robin want to understand the true history of the world?
Is it to continue the legacy of the scholars of Ohara? Well, we still have some questions:
- What information specifically was so devastating that the World Government sought to eradicate Ohara?
- What is Ohara's link to the Revolutionary Army?
- What was on the Ohara Poneglyph? Information about the Ancient Kingdom and the Void Century, for sure… and Robin confirms that she's read it by the end of her flashback
- What's up with the books in the lake of Ohara?
- What other piece of information did Olvia learn that Spandine wanted so badly?
It goes on. There are too many questions about “motive” and “intent” for us to count Robin out — especially since we have no clue how the Buster Call at Ohara might have warped her mentality.
I actually believe that this is too simplistic a view of what’s going on here. It undermines the true impact of those of D — as well as how external forces aim to keep them ignorant and out of power.
Sauro is a good example of this. Indoctrinated by the marines and taught to deny his heritage, he only knows that he’s not supposed to look into it.
Yet Olvia managed to make him a turncoat with one encounter. How? Why? History plays a large role.
Subjectivity of “poor writing” aside, I think you should consider Robin’s most formative experiences in the series and how they affected her as a character.
Robin was taught not to trust people. Her mother abandoned her, her guardian abused her, the townspeople called her a freak… and those she trusted were all killed right in front of her.
The only thing she was taught was about the true history... which she learned, despite the scholars of Ohara outright trying to prevent that from happening. Because it put a target on her back and also taught her things she was too young to understand.
Sauro taught her to smile when everything is terrible so that she FEELS happy... essentially training her on how to hide her emotions and lie. “Nico” means “smile” in Japanese.
Smiling Robin. Her mask is her smile; hence the cover of volume 41.
I understand your points, but I believe they were all addressed during the CP9 saga. Robin did leave the crew behind. She _wa_s wearing a fake or at least forced smile for the first leg of their voyage together on Skypiea. Which all came to a head when the Straw Hats pursued her to Enies Lobby and declared their intention to fight the entire world and the darkness which rules in order to rescue their friend, thus fulfilling Saul's words. The most important thing about Saul's lesson to Robin was to smile through hard times because surely there is a brighter day on the horizon. Even though things look bleak, someday, somewhere on the sea, she'll meet people who won't abandon her. Robin ran away from the Straw Hats because she was afraid they would leave her. But they would never let her die.
I feel like your reading of Robin's character fits with Spandam's description; with the world's perception of the 'Demon Child'. People always betray Robin because they assume the worst of her. The Straw Hats aren't like those other people and that's really the point. It was never that Robin betrays people. It's that people have betrayed her time and again. Yet, you're still assuming the worst of her based on the horrible image the World Government created of her. The false image that the Straw Hats were warned about by Aokiji, Iceberg, etc. and refused to believe. They saw through the lies and recognized Robin as a true friend.
As for motive, it's really not that complicated. The scholars of Ohara had a part of the puzzle, but not the whole truth of the world. Roger's crew were the only ones in 800 years to discover that truth and it remains hidden on Laugh Tale. Roger told at least part of it to Whitebeard and Toki likely knew some of the crucial details as well. The scholars of Ohara value knowledge, history. You need not look any further than real world historians who believe that knowledge of the past illuminates the path into the future. Robin was hunted by the dark power that rules the world for daring to study the history they want to keep hidden. She doesn't need any secret ulterior motive to want to know the truth. We saw the inciting incident for this desire during her flashback. We hear Clover tell the Five Elders exactly what the scholars of Ohara learned. It isn't everything, but the act of studying said history is already an unforgivable crime.
In terms of 'The Sixth'; If Oda is indeed saving the chapter title, it doesn't imply any sort of betrayal, unless we also assume Chopper is meant to betray the crew in the future. It could simply imply a significant character moment for Robin in the future where she really proves her resolve or contributes significantly toward Luffy achieving his goal of becoming Pirate King.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Usopp wasn’t REALLY the third until after Enies Lobby — just like how Nami wasn’t REALLY the second until after Arlong Park. You get my drift?
Robin might not even be the sixth at all — it could be Vivi.
Like I’ve said several times, I could be wrong!
But I’m pretty confident that I’m not entirely
I think Vivi is returning; Have believed that for more than a decade. But Robin is the sixth. Oda has given the Straw Hats numbers in numerous color spreads at this point.
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@Vongola_Boss_XI:
I understand your points, but I believe they were all addressed during the CP9 saga. Robin did leave the crew behind. She _wa_s wearing a fake or at least forced smile for the first leg of their voyage together on Skypiea. Which all came to a head when the Straw Hats pursued her to Enies Lobby and declared their intention to fight the entire world and the darkness which rules in order to rescue their friend, thus fulfilling Saul's words. The most important thing about Saul's lesson to Robin was to smile through hard times because surely there is a brighter day on the horizon. Even though things look bleak, someday, somewhere on the sea, she'll meet people who won't abandon her. Robin ran away from the Straw Hats because she was afraid they would leave her. But they would never let her die.
Luffy didn't let Robin die after Alabasta and she still betrays him later in Water 7. Despite Alabasta and saving her on Skypiea, too.
The Straw Hats planned to take on the World Government, which Robin inherently dislikes and aligns herself with given the events on Ohara.
I think you're misreading Sauro's words here. I think that you're right in that his intent was to teach Robin to smile through hard times because a brighter day would be on the horizon… but Robin seemingly never saw a brighter day until literally 20 years after that. The majority of her life has been in darkness (hence her morbid predictions). So all of her smiles to that point were to put on the illusion of happiness while feeling despair internally. Everyone she loved was killed brutally right in front of her. She lost everything. There were no happy times to be had.
Don't forget that Robin was fully willing to pin Iceberg's murder on the Straw Hats and abandon them. That's not "for the sake of the crew," but an outright betrayal that they've been gracious enough to forgive.
@Vongola_Boss_XI:
I feel like your reading of Robin's character fits with Spandam's description; with the world's perception of the 'Demon Child'. People always betray Robin because they assume the worst of her. The Straw Hats aren't like those other people and that's really the point. It was never that Robin betrays people. It's that people have betrayed her time and again. Yet, you're still assuming the worst of her based on the horrible image the World Government created of her. The false image that the Straw Hats were warned about by Aokiji, Iceberg, etc. and refused to believe. They saw through the lies and recognized Robin as a true friend.
Robin has betrayed people. She was betrayed at first and thereafter, seemed to feel comfortable betraying those she aligned with (as we see in the last several pages of her flashback).
The initial image created by the World Government was that of a "Demon Child," but at some point she lived to fit the description.
You gotta remember that Ao Kiji knew Robin at 8 — but spoke about her actions of betrayal in the time since he first met her.
@Vongola_Boss_XI:
As for motive, it's really not that complicated. The scholars of Ohara had a part of the puzzle, but not the whole truth of the world. Roger's crew were the only ones in 800 years to discover that truth and it remains hidden on Laugh Tale. Roger told at least part of it to Whitebeard and Toki likely knew some of the crucial details as well. The scholars of Ohara value knowledge, history. You need not look any further than real world historians who believe that knowledge of the past illuminates the path into the future. Robin was hunted by the dark power that rules the world for daring to study the history they want to keep hidden. She doesn't need any secret ulterior motive to want to know the truth. We saw the inciting incident for this desire during her flashback. We hear Clover tell the Five Elders exactly what the scholars of Ohara learned. It isn't everything, but the act of studying said history is already an unforgivable crime.
I think Ohara figured it out. Rayleigh seems to believe so.
Remember, Clover got on a direct line with the Five Elder Stars and they ordered a mass purge as a result of Ohara's knowledge.
The reader is not informed on what Clover and the scholars of Ohara have discovered — nor do we learn what was on the Ohara poneglyph (aside from the name of the Ancient Kingdom and about the Void Century). The only person alive who knows is Robin — and we don't know how she feels about it.
We do know that whatever it was concerns the destruction of the world, as the Marines and World Government have pointed out.
@Vongola_Boss_XI:
In terms of 'The Sixth'; If Oda is indeed saving the chapter title, it doesn't imply any sort of betrayal, unless we also assume Chopper is meant to betray the crew in the future. It could simply imply a significant character moment for Robin in the future where she really proves her resolve or contributes significantly toward Luffy achieving his goal of becoming Pirate King.
Chopper still has time to leave. Oda's treatment of Chopper has been very curious thus far. Forced awakening in Enies Lobby. His new hat might be a treasure map ("X" marks the spot) and is reminiscent of the symbol on the Kozuki Crest/Alabasta Flag/Shandian symbol. Perhaps it is the same as the universal model in Ohara's library.
@Vongola_Boss_XI:
I think Vivi is returning; Have believed that for more than a decade. But Robin is the sixth. Oda has given the Straw Hats numbers in numerous color spreads at this point.
Those numbers aren't always consistent.
Luffy is #1 AND 0. Zoro is #1 AND 2. Usopp is simultaneously #3 and 4. This all comes down to how Oda has chosen to count them.
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Luffy didn't let Robin die after Alabasta and she still betrays him later in Water 7. Despite Alabasta and saving her on Skypiea, too.
The Straw Hats planned to take on the World Government, which Robin inherently dislikes and aligns herself with given the events on Ohara.
I think you're misreading Sauro's words here. I think that you're right in that his intent was to teach Robin to smile through hard times because a brighter day would be on the horizon… but Robin seemingly never saw a brighter day until literally 20 years after that. The majority of her life has been in darkness (hence her morbid predictions). So all of her smiles to that point were to put on the illusion of happiness while feeling despair internally. Everyone she loved was killed brutally right in front of her. She lost everything. There were no happy times to be had.
Don't forget that Robin was fully willing to pin Iceberg's murder on the Straw Hats and abandon them. That's not "for the sake of the crew," but an outright betrayal that they've been gracious enough to forgive.
Robin has betrayed people. She was betrayed at first and thereafter, seemed to feel comfortable betraying those she aligned with (as we see in the last several pages of her flashback).
The initial image created by the World Government was that of a "Demon Child," but at some point she lived to fit the description.
You gotta remember that Ao Kiji knew Robin at 8 — but spoke about her actions of betrayal in the time since he first met her.
I think Ohara figured it out. Rayleigh seems to believe so.
Remember, Clover got on a direct line with the Five Elder Stars and they ordered a mass purge as a result of Ohara's knowledge.
The reader is not informed on what Clover and the scholars of Ohara have discovered — nor do we learn what was on the Ohara poneglyph (aside from the name of the Ancient Kingdom and about the Void Century). The only person alive who knows is Robin — and we don't know how she feels about it.
We do know that whatever it was concerns the destruction of the world, as the Marines and World Government have pointed out.
Chopper still has time to leave. Oda's treatment of Chopper has been very curious thus far. Forced awakening in Enies Lobby. His new hat might be a treasure map ("X" marks the spot) and is reminiscent of the symbol on the Kozuki Crest/Alabasta Flag/Shandian symbol. Perhaps it is the same as the universal model in Ohara's library.
Those numbers aren't always consistent.
Luffy is #1 AND 0. Zoro is #1 AND 2. Usopp is simultaneously #3 and 4. This all comes down to how Oda has chosen to count them.
I don't think it's even possible to learn the truth of the world without visiting Laugh Tale and that is by design of those who created the Poneglyphs. I don't think it's the sort of thing you can simply figure out. The truth is recorded on the poneglyphs, but the most important detail, the call to action, is only on Laugh Tale.
And… I just don't agree about Saul. That is exactly the point of his message to Robin. Smile because someday things will get better.
And Robin did not betray the Straw Hats. She was threatened by the same power which destroyed the island of Ohara and sacrificed herself so that CP9 would leave her friends alone. The attempted assassination of Iceberg was part of CP9's plan. Robin went along with CP9, resigned herself to her fate on Enies Lobby, because she didn't want to see her friends killed. They were going to kill Robin. She was turning herself over for torture and execution. There was no betrayal; there was fear of betrayal, which the Straw Hats proved to be unfounded. All building to the cathartic moment where Robin finally declared her desire to live atop the tower of Justice. That's the emotional arc for her character.
To pretend any of that is a mask would be a betrayal not only of the crew, but of the readers as well. Robin has since put her life and her dreams on the line many times over for the rest of the crew. If she were masking some ulterior motive or using the Straw Hats as a means to her own end, she would not be willing to sacrifice her life for the sake of others.
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The numbers are consistent, just because Zoro is the first person to join that doesnt makes his number 1. Same goes for every other member. Their assigned number, meaning 1 = Luffy, 2 = Zoro, 3 = Nami and so on has always been consistent, their assigned number and the order they joined are different categories.
Vivis assigned number is 5.5.
It would be cool if Vivi is the 11th, since well 5.5 x 2 = 11 -
@Vongola_Boss_XI:
I don't think it's even possible to learn the truth of the world without visiting Laugh Tale and that is by design of those who created the Poneglyphs. I don't think it's the sort of thing you can simply figure out. The truth is recorded on the poneglyphs, but the most important detail, the call to action, is only on Laugh Tale.
We can agree to disagree here; I feel that Ohara was exterminated because they figured everything out. The Buster Call only occurs after Clover presents his hypothesis to the Five Elder Stars — who then say that the scholars of Ohara must be exterminated. They certainly were on the right track!
@Vongola_Boss_XI:
And… I just don't agree about Saul. That is exactly the point of his message to Robin. Smile because someday things will get better.
We can agree to disagree! Here's some evidence
Exhibit A
Exhibit B
Exhibit C
Exhibit D Exhibit E@Vongola_Boss_XI:
And Robin did not betray the Straw Hats. She was threatened by the same power which destroyed the island of Ohara and sacrificed herself so that CP9 would leave her friends alone. The attempted assassination of Iceberg was part of CP9's plan. Robin went along with CP9, resigned herself to her fate on Enies Lobby, because she didn't want to see her friends killed. They were going to kill Robin. She was turning herself over for torture and execution. There was no betrayal; there was fear of betrayal, which the Straw Hats proved to be unfounded. All building to the cathartic moment where Robin finally declared her desire to live atop the tower of Justice. That's the emotional arc for her character.
There was betrayal. What would have happened if Robin had been successful here? The Straw Hats would have been blamed for a crime they didn't commit and be put in danger. She considered it a "lesser of two evils," but still went along with it.
@Vongola_Boss_XI:
To pretend any of that is a mask would be a betrayal not only of the crew, but of the readers as well. Robin has since put her life and her dreams on the line many times over for the rest of the crew. If she were masking some ulterior motive or using the Straw Hats as a means to her own end, she would not be willing to sacrifice her life for the sake of others.
Just because Robin has gone along with the crew doesn't mean that she won't turn her back on them again. They're helping her accomplish her goals… which she wants to achieve at all costs. She will do anything to realize her ambitions.
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So, you're saying that Robin put a pirate crew in danger? The same crew that took down Baroque Works and it's leader the shichibukai Crocodile, whose captain at the moment was a wanted men for 100 million and therefore already a supernova rookie, garnering more attention from the marines than most pirates ever will?
The StrawHats were wanted long before Robin entered the picture, taking the blame for attemped murder did little to that. But Robin knew how disproportionate the WG response was to her. As a child, easily defeated by a competent adult, she had a bounty bigger that Zoro, the man who cut a hundred bounty hunters in Whisky Peak and the famous assassin Daz Bones. She knew her presence would make the target on their backs much bigger and she would have none of it. Luffy still would try to be Pirate King and would still get a bigger bounty but it would not be her fault, for the first time in a long time she actually let herself care about other people and could do something to try and protect them. When talking to Spandam she literally told him she would cooperate with the WG and help bring back the Ancient Weapons if the Strawhats were left out of it, if their relation with her was ignored so they would not be chased because of her. She would never be able to learn the True History by surrending to the Marines and she made peace with that. She was willing to set the whole world on fire if that meant letting her friends have fun adventures for a little longer.
But then they chased her and told her Girl, we're pirates, we do whatever the fuck we want that's the point! So come home with us!
And she went home, for the first time since Ohara she felt she was home, that's what the whole arc was about. We saw a lot of sides of Robin during that arc, if you think her betrayal is a possibility then you're basically saying she not only hid herself from the other characters but also from the readers.I'm with you on the notion that Ohara is going to be touched upon further in the future and that Oda hid the name of the Kingdom among other things to make some big reveals later on but he did not hid her feelings, he showed her inner thinking. We saw her thought bubble saying "If I can finally be honest with someone in my life" and the she shouted "I WANT TO LIVE! TAKE ME TO THE SEA WITH YOU!"
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Oda dropped the 'Xth Person' for a number of reasons but mainly bc it ceased to be fun when it became expected of him. Oda hates being predictable.
That's not to suggest if an opportune thread appears he won't follow it. But for now, there's no intention of revisiting that convention.
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Oda dropped the 'Xth Person' for a number of reasons but mainly bc it ceased to be fun when it became expected of him. Oda hates being predictable.
That's not to suggest if an opportune thread appears he won't follow it. But for now, there's no intention of revisiting that convention.
Dang. That is straight up some legit news that we'd never hear anywhere else. Thanks. I'm going to stop expecting it now. Everyone do the same so Oda eventually does it!
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I understand that, but I still think we may be able to doubt Robin’s stated intentions. Reread Ch. 392… Saul teaches Robin how to hide her true emotions when she’s 8. She does this again as she sails away from Ohara and it’s clear that the behavior is learned.
For 20 years, Robin learned not to trust anyone and to hide her true feelings (ニコ), eventually betraying her comrades. Will this be any different?
More questions:
- Are the Rumbar Pirates somehow connected to Olvia? Their decimation is reminiscent of her crew's and they're from the West Blue. The captain also has a cowboy hat like Yorki.
- Was Ohara really a stronghold of the Revolutionary Army?
- Who is Olvia’s husband? What mystery were they trying to solve?
- Olvia in ch. 393: “I am a scholar of Ohara. I cannot abandon the will of those who came before me!” Who?
- The World Govt. accused Ohara of plotting to destroy the world. Does this tie to the oft repeated “The One Piece will turn this world upside down”?
- How many people understand what occurred during the Void Century? Spandine? Clover? Olvia?
- Robin read the Ohara poneglyph, presumably about the Void Century. What did she learn?
- What did Olvia tell Saul for him to revolt?
- Why did Spandine try to take Olvia into custody instead of killing her? He said she knew something else that remains unrevealed.
- What’s inside Ohara’s remaining books in the lake? Are there more survivors?
- In Ch. 507, Robin questions Rayleigh about the Void Century. Her heart started pounding. Out of excitement or fear? Ohara was said to be trying to revive the ancient weapons. Perhaps she knows more than she lets on.
- Doubt it. The Rumbar Pirates were just a bunch of musically-inclined pirates, and their decimation was through poisoned arrows from pirates instead of a generic marine attack. And the cowboy hats could be just a reference to the West Blue being similar to the Wild West. Capone Bege also wears one, for example.
- The Revolutionary Army was probably not a thing yet back then (or at least very small). During the Reverie in Vivi's flashback 10 years ago, Dragon was starting to gain notoriety, implying the Revolutionaries were beginning by around that time.
- All we know is that he was an archaeologist as well. Probably trying to decipher the poneglyphs.
- Considering the above, probably her husband. She mentioned that she wanted to finish what he started.
- Yes. One Piece seems intrisically tied to the Ancient Weapons. See below.
- The only people who would know the full extent of things are the Roger Pirates and possibly Im/The Five Elders, if the theory about them being immortals from that time is true. It's also mentioned by Inuarashi that Lodestar Island has something that allows people to know about the purpose of the poneglyphs and the people who made them, so anyone who goes there likely learns a bit about what happened. This would explain how Kaido and Big Mom know that finding One Piece is tied to the Ancient Weapons.
- Likely the name of the Ancient Kingdom, since that's what Clover was about to reveal to the Five Elders.
- Saul could have rebelled by himself since his problem with the WG was specifically their fucked up justice (we saw Olvia ranting about their unfair treatment of scholars). Likely, seeing innocent historians killed set him off, just like how Aokiji witnessing Akainu killing civilians set him off, and he learned Olvia's side of the story.
- I suppose they wanted to do some basic interrogation.
- Just books, I guess, as the point was to preserve them, so they needed water to stop burning. One of them is Brag Men, which Nami had a copy of. The Marines that came afterwards probably didn't know about the scholars saving the books, so they thought it was coincidence they all ended in the lake.
- Could be both. Robin probably doesn't know what to expect and it's her lifelong goal.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Just because Robin has gone along with the crew doesn't mean that she won't turn her back on them again. They're helping her accomplish her goals… which she wants to achieve at all costs. She will do anything to realize her ambitions.
Nah. She has no reason to betray Luffy, especially considering he's Dragon's son anyway. Plus, the whole Joy Boy prophecy that she may be aware of as well.
Oda is very simplistic about this sort of thing. Robin is loyal to Luffy since he's the one who almost died for her.
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I recommend that you reread One Piece and take a look at Robin’s agency throughout
The fact remains that she’s read the Ohara poneglyph, which we still do not understand to this day. However, this implies that Robin knows about both the ancient kingdom and the void century. Why hasn’t she discussed it with the crew?
.Because it isn't to the crew's interest?
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We can agree to disagree here; I feel that Ohara was exterminated because they figured everything out. The Buster Call only occurs after Clover presents his hypothesis to the Five Elder Stars — who then say that the scholars of Ohara must be exterminated. They certainly were on the right track!
That is rather obvious. But they probably didn't have the full context of things, which is the whole point of historical research.
For example, the Ancient Kingdom's enemy is something that can be deducted through logical reasoning of present censorship and the use of poneglyph to transmit indestructible messages. In fact, that's how Clover presents his theory. He probably doesn't know the full details like the reason the war happened.
Clover does however know about the Ancient Kingdom in its entirety. He states as much, having learned it from a few poneglyphs and some manuscripts.
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Greg do you feel this arc having high stakes ? Everything been a walk in the park. No tension, the crew has had it too easy, the 2 Yonko are simply incompetent… There is no sense of danger at all. It's bad when villains of the past who are nothing compared to the guys Oda has claimed that have always been the big enemies, it's really bad that those guys have been a bigger threat than Kaido and Mom.
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The order to eradicate the scholars of Ohara was given before they came to the island, because the sheer research was enough reason to make an example out of them. Saul already knew Ohara is going to be destroyed way before Clover presented his theory.
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Oda dropped the 'Xth Person' for a number of reasons but mainly bc it ceased to be fun when it became expected of him. Oda hates being predictable.
That's not to suggest if an opportune thread appears he won't follow it. But for now, there's no intention of revisiting that convention.
Wow, thanks for the confirmation here! That’s really good to know.
As for the Robin thing… I’ve already given my perspective. I’d like to reiterate, I could be wrong. But the fun is in theorizing.
Ultimately, Nico Robin has spent more time with the Revolutionary Army than the Straw Hat Crew. Her loyalty could have shifted in that time, as her mother was a revolutionary. It’s odd that she never mentioned Luffy to Sabo… or did she? We’ll see!
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Respectfully. In my view, there is absolutely no chance whatsoever that Robin in the future will betray the crew, without also betraying the spirit of the manga thus far.
You have to selectively ignore a whole lot of current (and enduring!) evidence of her loyalty to the crew, to arrive at the scant “proof” of her disloyalty to it.
I don’t need more words than this to convey my certainty.
There's a great lighthearted vibe around here, because no matter how serious we might get, we're all together because of some magical pirate.
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Wow, thanks for the confirmation here! That’s really good to know.
As for the Robin thing… I’ve already given my perspective. I’d like to reiterate, I could be wrong. But the fun is in theorizing.
Ultimately, Nico Robin has spent more time with the Revolutionary Army than the Straw Hat Crew. Her loyalty could have shifted in that time, as her mother was a revolutionary. It’s odd that she never mentioned Luffy to Sabo… or did she? We’ll see!
Olvia was not a revolutionary though.
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Everyone talks about Robin, but what business would Chopper have outside Drum Island???
My bet is that given the case that he has a X Person chapter, it will be because of something similar to what we saw at Thriller Bark: he will get mad at the crew for not respecting a renown Doctor, or something like that.
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Isn't it possible Oda just forgot the whole thing after East Blue and only remembered at the end of Ennies Lobby?
