I see Joy Boy is infecting another thread with what could be considered arguments
Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !
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Once someone tells you they go by sales, there should be no more discussion. You fully understand them now.
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Yes, let the hate flow. Feed me.
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Anyone have a link for the latest manga sales, I still can’t believe that Demon Slayer is beating One Piece, really shocking as I don’t think it’s anywhere near as good as One Piece (outside of the anime’s amazing animation choreography) not saying it’s bad, at all, it’s just not in One Piece’s league if you ask me personally
You can go to the oricon thread in other manga forum
Kimetsu volume 19 is 1 million sales ahead of One Piece 96.In my opinion, there are things which can explain One Piece decrease outside of digital sales (personaly I don't mix my analog and digital series, it's either one or the other)
One Piece is a 20 years long serie which end is constantly delayed.
The first post time skip arcs are not the best of the serie.
In order to fasten the pace, Oda skips the fights and the strawhats moments which are some fans favourite
The anime adaptation is not goodKimetsu anime came when the serie was in its last arc.
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One piece's slow pacing is what hurts it the most and way too long arcs, that also go to the anime.
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which end is constantly delayed
What? The end can't be delayed if the author or the series itself never told you it was about to end.
I don't think anyone ever said "One Piece is ending" and got disappointed when it wasn't simply because of the fact that Oda never implied that.
Oda skips the fights
Which is a good choice lol.
Oda is a great writer that can fundamentally carry the entire series without having to boil it down to "MUH FIGHTS".
The anime adaptation is not good
Yep. Can't argue there.
One Piece's anime has been a big impact especially since anime is the go-to medium for casuals and hardly any of them read the manga.
the strawhats moments which are some fans favourite
They are less but they are still there and Oda still makes them the highlight.
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Everyone keeps saying One Piece sales are down, but isn’t it still one of the highest grossing series of all time? With each new volume selling millions? And the characters themselves are getting statues in public areas! What other series do they do that for? anywhere? Sure maybe it’s not in it’s prime but it doesn’t seem to be doing that bad to me
Am I wrong?
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KNY being popular shouldn't really be a surprise to anyone.
A giant animation studio like Ufotable adaptating KNY and essentially putting everything into animation and fights is going to get that level of reaction. And that's about it.
An anime with pretty visuals and effects with weak-source material is still pretty with weak-core elements. Ufotable, for example, wasn't able to "elevate" the characters from the series simply because they are just weak and one-note that you can't really fix it with bright colors. The beginning of the series with the "MC's family dies" should show the fundamentally weak character writing right from the get-go. D.Gray Man essentially does the s
While I always loved to celebrate One Piece's sales because the numbers, for an extremely rare occasion, reflected the series appeal and quality. KNY being popular and getting those numbers isn't really special. Something that is mediocre is bound to be successful. This is like someone being remotely surprised by the Minions movie making over 1 billion in the box-office.
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The sales are steadily decreasing indeed, but it's hard to point out the definitive reason for that. Anyone can assess the reasons why they are personally caring less about the series, but nobody can generalize their argument to everybody else.
Despite me saying that, one aspect of the series that make it a little hard for casual fans is how gigantic the arcs currently are, and how long it takes for the payoffs to come. Most people don't have this kind of patience, and if you're not following the series too closely, you start losing focus and missing the details and emotions, because the story becomes too sparse and stretched out.
Then we have many little issues that matter to some readers for subjective reasons, like the lack of highlight on the strawhats, or the lack of fights, or something else. We all have read all the complaints, regardless of how right or wrong they are.
Also, arguably many old readers have grown out of One Piece too.
Anyway, casual fans come and go, and come back again (maybe). It may happen that One Piece will explode again like it happened during Marineford. But if it needs an event of that kind for the series to grow again, then we must wait until the action comes back to the main stage, which might be soon.
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When there is rise, there is also the fall.
One Piece probably hit its peak already. And definitely wont be reaching those numbers again. I dont think even the final arc will hit them.
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Everyone keeps saying One Piece sales are down, but isn’t it still one of the highest grossing series of all time? With each new volume selling millions? And the characters themselves are getting statues in public areas! What other series do they do that for? anywhere? Sure maybe it’s not in it’s prime but it doesn’t seem to be doing that bad to me
Am I wrong?
No, you're not wrong. It's not doing bad by any stretch of the imagination. Just not as good as it used to.
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What? The end can't be delayed if the author or the series itself never told you it was about to end.
I don't think anyone ever said "One Piece is ending" and got disappointed when it wasn't simply because of the fact that Oda never implied that.
there has been multiple percentages sayed. Last year it was said it will finish in 5 years and my understanding is that it was word from Oda himself not from an editor.
Which is a good choice lol.
that's your opinion, the millions of other fans may have another one
They are less but they are still there and Oda still makes them the highlight.
given there number, i would not say they are the highlight.
@Shiebs:Everyone keeps saying One Piece sales are down, but isn’t it still one of the highest grossing series of all time? With each new volume selling millions? And the characters themselves are getting statues in public areas! What other series do they do that for? anywhere? Sure maybe it’s not in it’s prime but it doesn’t seem to be doing that bad to me
Am I wrong?
It is still extremely good but it used to sell 3 millions quite easily in its first weeks while it nows does not reach 2 millions so I think it is legitimate to question why those readers have stopped buying the serie. But the serie itself has no worry to do, it will remain legendary and the subject of multiple universitary thesis
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Ah yes, the classic "It's your opinion".
What a reasoning.
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My entirely baseless guess is that they got to that Imu chapter and just went welp i'm out. Nah but seriously it is a long running series who has changed a fair bit as it went along so it ain't suprising that people who got into the series for certain things go away when the series start downplaying those things
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Like, I'm a huge OP fan, I have all the volumes and artbooks and posters and a 300$ Jinbe statue and I met my wife through these forums etc. etc…. and even I don't buy every manga volume immediately anymore, I usually get 3 or 4 of them at the same time.
I still get them eventually to support but I've already read the story in the weeklies and its just... as long as the series is now I can't imagine when I'm ever going to sit down and actually re-read it all start to finish. The last time I actually did that was when Viz was accelerating their release schedule to catch up to the Japanese releases, and that was back in like 2010 and only went up to the war, we weren't even at the timemskip yet and the series was almost half the length it is now.
It's nearly 100 volumes long, and its going to be 120-130 if Oda keeps even remotely close to the timetable he wants, and that's still probably seven years away or so (no matter that he said five years, a year ago now, even if a crazy amount of stuff resolves in Wano and the series slims down after that for a while, that's just not happening.) It's going to be a nearly 30 year series when all is said and done and nothing can keep up full momentum the entire time on something like that.
Asking a fan to binge fifty or sixty volumes for the climax of a run is a lot, but not completely insane. But to triple that? That's just too much an ask for casual fans. And yet it still sells as well as it does.
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Ah yes, the classic "It's your opinion".
What a reasoning.
Much better than 'it is a good choice'… In my opinion
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The "it's opinion bro" is the single most laziest and go-to way when you don't really explain to explain or explore you whatever you want to convey.
But here is something Oda said:
"I write ONE PIECE as dramatically as I can. If I had written a pure battle manga, it would have been easily defeated by Dragon Ball." ONE PIECE 10th Treasures (2007)
"I'd like to draw strawhats relaxing on a deck rather than their fights." Comickers (1998)
The writer's own words. Now you can still pretend that the yahoo's on the internet spending time talking about power levels and battles, is somehow the judge of what the actual series is about.
VS the dude who created, lived and breathed the series for over 20 years.
But hey, you are entitled to your "opinion". Whatever that is worth.
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I'd be inclined to say the huge backlog is the main reason for falling sales. That and the fact that the series is such a huge cultural force already in its home country. There's no escaping it, so everyone who might find it appealing has had the chance to give it a look already. Nowhere to go but down from that point. It's hard to find new readers when the whole country has already had the chance to decide if it's for them or not. No one where this sales data is coming from is "discovering" One Piece anymore.
But the decline that follows that isn't the end of the world either. People who were just riding the hype wave, or decided they don't have the patience for it, or feel they outgrew it will leave without being replaced like they might have been in the past, but there's no reason the (still enormous) core readership won't last. The decline will bottom out and a comfortable new normal will appear until the endgame brings some people back. Oda would have to fuck up pretty hard and pretty consistently for a while to make the decline last forever. Maybe there'll be new things that outsell this new baseline. Maybe there won't be. I don't think it matters that much.
And hey, if Oda sticks the landing and gets the series to go down as a classic from start to finish, people are going to read it after it's done. The series' length can be part of its legacy, locking it in as a rite of passage as well a a good read. Kinda like the experience of tackling The Wheel of Time's fourteen book girth is for fantasy novels. The thing that once drove people away will become one of its talking points
On a personal level, obviously interest waxes and wanes with different parts of the story, but I've been on something of a high lately. Chalk that up to the uncertain times and the fact that One Piece is a bit of a comfort series if you want, but it's true. I've got a decade of week to week reading under my belt at this point and I'm still out here lamenting the fact that COVID meant I couldn't get English volume 93 on its release date. I probably won't do a full reread until the very end, but I go through bits and pieces regularly enough, skimming to various degrees.
The last time my faith was properly shaken was that mid-Dressrosa era, the weekly run of volume 74, where the pacing really started to bite. But the payoff, when Sugar fell, was worth the wait, but every arc after Dressrosa has been a clear improvement on the last. I'm more excited than ever to see how all these New World plot threads come together in Wano, and can't wait to see how all the series-long stuff is resolved after that.
The core readership will survive. There's no reason to think a sales decline indicates falling quality or risk of cancellation or whatever it is about this trend that has people so worked up, even if it does cost One Piece the very top spot on Oricon. They won't keep going down forever.
And as far as I'm concerned, the magic is still there. Or, a magic is still there, even if it's not the exact same kind it was ten years ago.
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This is for Greg, I guess. With how much Demon Slayer has benefited from such a great anime, do you think this will be the strategy going forward for the series Jump is really trying to push? I could see Chainsaw man really benefiting from a great anime, for example. Also, from my understanding, Demon Slayer is ending sooner, rather than later. Are there any other manga in Jump with the momentum to take its place next to One Piece?
as an aside, I'm with a lot of the people in this thread. I watched the Demon Slayer anime and was impressed, but found it pretty safe. Based on just the first season, it's not quite the caliber of the best of Jump's history, but I hope I'm proven wrong.
Check out my podcast for conversations about Greatness in anime, sports, music, and whatever else we can think of.
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It's not exactly up to Jump/Shueisha to decide how the anime adaptations will be made. The animation studios themselves seek after the manga series that they want to adapt, and then Shueisha together with the author of the series will accept or not the offer. Of course, they may decline the offer if they believe the studio won't do any good, but most of these studios are very professional, and the greatness of the adaptation can only be measured after it's done. And money talks.
But we can observe the trends of the market to konw what to expect of the future, and we know that most studios started adhering to the seasonal structure even for these long battle shonen, which is good for pacing and overall quality.
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This is for Greg, I guess. With how much Demon Slayer has benefited from such a great anime, do you think this will be the strategy going forward for the series Jump is really trying to push?
Lots of Jump titles the last few years have taken a different approach. MHA has pretty much taken the tactic of "just adapt for a few months, keep the quality decent, then rest for six months while the manga gets ahead again" Other shows like Bakuman and Assassin Classroom also too long hiatuses… and even something like Fruits Basket which is a finished series is taking its time.
And OnePunch Man's release schedule is... something.
I think the age of having an adaptation of a weekly manga getting a weekly anime that necessitates bad pacing and multiple filler arcs and lower overall quality is pretty much over, I don't think we're going to see the likes of DBZ, OP, Bleach, Inu Yasha and Naruto again, when a studio can just juggle multiple projects instead, and get better long term returns when it comes to dvds and such when shows have a lower episode count but higher rewatchability.
(And in Inu Yasha and Bleach's cases, they stopped the show after hundreds of episodes, waited for the series to finish, and then adapted the final arcs.)
Heck, even Dragonball Super is taking a break for whatever reason, even though they could (and eventually will) just milk that for forever.
Stuff like Sazae San or Pokemon which are just weekly staples but not at all dependant on a manga are a different case entirely.
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I don't think we should blame this decrease to simply fatigue or people not wanting to start up a nearly 100 volume series. I mean 2 years prior series was still selling over 2 million per volume. Now it's only at 1,5 million. Can't it just be that the manga isn't delivering to most ?
I personally like this arc but certainly Oda hasn't delivered on the hype aside from the Roger stuff and the arc severely lacks things that could make it great, namely tension and actually developing the main antagonist of the entire post skip narrative. I mean for me it just plain wrong on Oda's part to not focus on the character that's been the big bad guy since PH. People aren't really invested to the characters. Regarding the tension, Straw Hats have been running around with no one bothering them, they actually have accomplished all of their tasks, Kaido's side is just partying and Jinbe just appears and nothing's happened to him. Like how are we supposed to feel that the Straw Hats are on the ropes when everything's just went so smoothly aside from Kaido one shotting Luffy ?
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@Joy:
I don't think we should blame this decrease to simply fatigue or people not wanting to start up a nearly 100 volume series. I mean 2 years prior series was still selling over 2 million per volume. Now it's only at 1,5 million. Can't it just be that the manga isn't delivering to most ?
I personally like this arc but certainly Oda hasn't delivered on the hype aside from the Roger stuff and the arc severely lacks things that could make it great, namely tension and actually developing the main antagonist of the entire post skip narrative. I mean for me it just plain wrong on Oda's part to not focus on the character that's been the big bad guy since PH. People aren't really invested to the characters. Regarding the tension, Straw Hats have been running around with no one bothering them, they actually have accomplished all of their tasks, Kaido's side is just partying and Jinbe just appears and nothing's happened to him. Like how are we supposed to feel that the Straw Hats are on the ropes when everything's just went so smoothly aside from Kaido one shotting Luffy ?
If you have been following the oricon charts for the last 10 years, then you'd know that the sales are decreasing very steadily ever since after the apex of the series in Marineford. Every new volume since FI sells less than the last one in the first week. Back in those days it used to sell more than 3 million in a week, and then it fell under 3 million, and then it kept falling, so it was just a matter of time until the series got below 2 million per volume in the first month.
It's a well defined trend, not Wano single handedly sinking the sales.
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If you have been following the oricon charts for the last 10 years, then you'd know that the sales are decreasing very steadily ever since after the apex of the series in Marineford. Every new volume since FI sells less than the last one in the first week. Back in those days it used to sell more than 3 million in a week, and then it fell under 3 million, and then it kept falling, so it was just a matter of time until the series got below 2 million per volume in the first month.
It's a well defined trend, not Wano single handedly sinking the sales.
With Wano they've reached new lows. Which is disappointing considering this is the most important arc of the series according to Oda and his editors. They failed to deliver, it's not so bad to simply admit that.
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@Joy:
With Wano they've reached new lows. Which is disappointing considering this is the most important arc of the series according to Oda and his editors. They failed to deliver, it's not so bad to simply admit that.
When the sales are ever decreasing, every new arc is a new low by default.
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It ain't like they're about to drop Oda due to poor sales.
And that is literally the only time i care about sales numbers.
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Again sales decrease does not equal not selling well
It’s still out selling everything but demon slayer I think
so I don’t think it’s nearly as big a deal as people here are making it out to be here
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Again sales decrease does not equal not selling well
It’s still out selling everything but demon slayer I think
so I don’t think it’s nearly as big a deal as people here are making it out to be here
It's just one person.
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Also maybe wait 'till the arc is over before judging whether it delivers hype, sales, a new boom or whatever else.
And there's some exaggeration of past sales going on here. OP has never sold 3 millions in one week. It was close to 3 millions in a month at its peak. Volume 61 sold 3,382,588 copies in 2011 and that's the absolute record-holder for best-selling manga volume in Oricon in an entire year (although it was just 10 months for this particular one).
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Saying that wano hasn't delivered on the hype… okay? Thats YOUR fault for having certain expectations. The arc still hasnt reached its climax. It seems some of you are bitter. One Piece's end hasn't been delayed. At all. Oda said he would LIKE to end it in 5 years, and those 5 years aren't even up yet. Its not artificially elongated. Oda is just telling HIS story in detail. Just commenting on some things i've seen here.
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Again people ignore digital
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It's strange that it's not counted in some way.
It is but you won't get numbers from companies officially since they really have no reason to give it out.
Just look at the gaming industry some titles are seeing 60-70% of there sales just through digital
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Saying that wano hasn't delivered on the hype… okay? Thats YOUR fault for having certain expectations. The arc still hasnt reached its climax. It seems some of you are bitter. One Piece's end hasn't been delayed. At all. Oda said he would LIKE to end it in 5 years, and those 5 years aren't even up yet. Its not artificially elongated. Oda is just telling HIS story in detail. Just commenting on some things i've seen here.
Well it hasn't ? Why are people ignoring the core of my posts ? What about the lack of tension in this arc ? Why do the straw hats have it so easy ? Why has Oda failed to develop the antagonists and instead he constantly focuses on the scabbards ? Why the dubious writing of the flashback ? Why hurt Kaido's image that much and why rush through it, making Toki be completely irrelevant, having for no reason at all make this flashback start over 40 years ago which in turn had to give us this dumb 5 year plot point of Oden staying and doing nothing.
If you guys think this arc has been perfect and there are no flaws in Oda's writing then you are simply wrong.
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"It's not perfect so therefore bad" Nice logic, dude.
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"It's not perfect so therefore bad" Nice logic, dude.
DO you know how to read ? I said this arc doesn't live to the hype Oda and his editors built around it. Never said it's bad, it just doesn't live to the hype the author himself built.
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Gotcha.….................
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@Joy:
DO you know how to read ? I said this arc doesn't live to the hype Oda and his editors built around it. Never said it's bad, it just doesn't live to the hype the author himself built.
I personally think it still will, once the fighting starts and we get to know more about Kaido…. whenever that will be lol.
Anyway, I'm personally just excited for all of the remaining factions left after this:
- Underworld (if they are a problem after Kaido)
- Impel Down Escapees (wherever they are)
- SSG (Vegapunk and Kuma included)
- Revo's
- CP-0
- Marines
- World Government
- Blackbeard Pirates
- Red Hair Pirates
I really am curious as to how all of this is gonna go down, and these groups have characters that have existed for far longer than the 2 Yonko we are dealing with now. Tbh the series can only go up from Wano, thought it's already great imo (*knock on wood)
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There are some flaws but like i already said,big things happened (The Oden-Roger flashback,Kanjuro being evil,Jinbei finally joining,the chapters set outside Wano between the acts).
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There are some flaws but like i already said,big things happened (The Oden-Roger flashback,Kanjuro being evil,Jinbei finally joining,the chapters set outside Wano between the acts).
Jinbe joining the way he joined is bad actually. He outright said he escaped together with his fishmen brethren. Like Big Mom failed to even capture them and Jinbe is without a single scratch. How is that good ?
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My only issue with Wano is that lazy way of separating Zoro from the group. Oda is better than that. Outside of that, it's been decent and as any arc, I have to wait til it's over to give it a more accurate analysis.
Showcasing precisely how the oppression is allocated possibly better than any other arc. Wano feels more real world oppressed than any other place. Even Skypiea was oppressed, but they didn't dig this deep.
The food, the education, how the ways of the country predate Orochi with how whole bloodlines had to either leave or be imprisoned. I would like to know an arc that was so detailed. Then you have Zoro's journey where he learned of SMILE's effects through Killer and Ebisu (just a small dosage) and Tama, the history of Ryuuma a lil, and how Orochi's reign leaves poor Onimaru obligated to still avenge his partner. Oda gives Zoro further motive outside of just agreeing with Luffy how messed up things are. He gets to see it on his own.
It's barely even structured the same as other arcs. The intermissions are great and Orochi is my fav character in the whole arc. He heard the people realizing who he was and he just says "trash". He's fully living it up as a bad guy. He is the peak villain. Product of his environment and unapologetic.
All this and we're still not done yet. I didn't even fully digest Oden's flashback yet. I have to go back and read it again.
I don't think anyone in here wants to have a real conversation about how sales should only matter to those that are making money off it and isn't a reflection of quality. The easiest thing to do is say "I don't like xyz". Adding sales is of the behavior of a casual/fickle "fan" that lives by what the sales or popularity poll says.
Lets go by that logic then. When the series is selling up to "your standards" is everything fine and peachy in the story? This is the convo no one wants to have. It's easier to just loosely throw around sales metrics from one source that doesn't match the overall sales. So not only does sales not matter when speaking on quality, you're not even looking at all of the sales. Everything about the sales discussion says it's not credible. It's exactly like arguing power levels when the writer can have anyone beat the person you thought was almost invincible. It's almost childish, but it reflects who people look up to. These Youtubers and Podcast that spend 3-5 hours arguing over dumb shit like best 2D girl and Mihawk vs Shanks. I used to think they were like 15, but found out most of them are older than me
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My only issue with Wano is that lazy way of separating Zoro from the group. Oda is better than that. Outside of that, it's been decent and as any arc, I have to wait til it's over to give it a more accurate analysis.
Showcasing precisely how the oppression is allocated possibly better than any other arc. Wano feels more real world oppressed than any other place. Even Skypiea was oppressed, but they didn't dig this deep.
The food, the education, how the ways of the country predate Orochi with how whole bloodlines had to either leave or be imprisoned. I would like to know an arc that was so detailed. Then you have Zoro's journey where he learned of SMILE's effects through Killer and Ebisu (just a small dosage) and Tama, the history of Ryuuma a lil, and how Orochi's reign leaves poor Onimaru obligated to still avenge his partner. Oda gives Zoro further motive outside of just agreeing with Luffy how messed up things are. He gets to see it on his own.
It's barely even structured the same as other arcs. The intermissions are great and Orochi is my fav character in the whole arc. He heard the people realizing who he was and he just says "trash". He's fully living it up as a bad guy. He is the peak villain. Product of his environment and unapologetic.
All this and we're still not done yet. I didn't even fully digest Oden's flashback yet. I have to go back and read it again.
I don't think anyone in here wants to have a real conversation about how sales should only matter to those that are making money off it and isn't a reflection of quality. The easiest thing to do is say "I don't like xyz". Adding sales is of the behavior of a casual/fickle "fan" that lives by what the sales or popularity poll says.
Lets go by that logic then. When the series is selling up to "your standards" is everything fine and peachy in the story? This is the convo no one wants to have. It's easier to just loosely throw around sales metrics from one source that doesn't match the overall sales. So not only does sales not matter when speaking on quality, you're not even looking at all of the sales. Everything about the sales discussion says it's not credible. It's exactly like arguing power levels when the writer can have anyone beat the person you thought was almost invincible. It's almost childish, but it reflects who people look up to. These Youtubers and Podcast that spend 3-5 hours arguing over dumb shit like best 2D girl and Mihawk vs Shanks. I used to think they were like 15, but found out most of them are older than me
Overall sales just made me go and think if Oda has really delivered on the hype he's build about this arc.. And quite honestly as I mentioned, the answer is no. And given that really no one has answered my points, I guess I have to make a detailed posts.
There has simply been no sense of danger aside from when they confronted Kaido. As I've previously said, the protagonists have had it far too easy in a land that is a hellhole as you said. Luffy went to the prison and instead of doing things to him that'd break his will, we saw him taking a casual stroll and training. The Scabbards are fine and dandy, and whatever Oda built with Law's friction with the alliance it suddenly disappeared. After that we have last few chapters where Luffy and Co have just casually strolled in Kaido's lair like nothing's happened. Oda tried to build some terror in the Scabbards and Luffy and co got away by simple luck while not losing any of their fractions. And then the icing on the cake is Jinbe just appearing like he didn't have his ass being chased by a pissed off Yonko. While casually mentioning that he escaped with the fishmen. How are we supposed to feel that they have to climb up a mountain when everything's has been going so smoothly for like 70 chapters ?
Next is characterization of major characters. Kaido has his image broken after his horrible involvement in the Oden flashback. He's gotten so little about who he is etc, all he had was his terrifying strength as the strongest creature and the guy who can't die. Oda kills all of that in a single panel with his hurting Oden from behind because Oda had to make Oden a god. There was no need to make Oden look better than he already did, all Oda had to do there was have Kaido beat Oden without any help. That would have build him up even more, at least his strength. But no, Oda had to wank Oden even more. Also Kaido overall has been an afterthought in his own arc. Like he is barely involved at all with Orochi looking like the big bad instead of Kaido. Jack also didn't need to get treated like that, he's a guy who was the big bad of an arc and he's gotten treated like a doofus in this arc. Shutenmaru cutting him was bullshit.
After that there are still answered questions. Robin basically told us nothing about the poneglyph Brook found, Hitetsu for some reason is a ghost and has no purpose ( Would have rather have him develop a relationship with Zoro and craft his an amazing sword that simply giving him Enma), why not show us how Kid got his crew back ? There is not even a mention of that.
I have to admit though that as you said, Oda has done a masterful job with Orochi. He might have a shit design, he might be weak but he's incredibly written. My only gripe in Orochi is that I wish Oda had made his relationship with Oden more personal. It would been more intense if Oden got overthrown by someone whom he really considered a friend.
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@Joy:
Jinbe joining the way he joined is bad actually. He outright said he escaped together with his fishmen brethren. Like Big Mom failed to even capture them and Jinbe is without a single scratch. How is that good ?
Its a "big event" that Jinbei joined. But i agree with you that Oda should have explained how Jinbe got free. He probably plans to do it when we will know also Germa's fate or what Pudding is doing though.
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@Joy:
Overall sales just made me go and think if Oda has really delivered on the hype he's build about this arc.. And quite honestly as I mentioned, the answer is no. And given that really no one has answered my points, I guess I have to make a detailed posts.
There has simply been no sense of danger aside from when they confronted Kaido. As I've previously said, the protagonists have had it far too easy in a land that is a hellhole as you said. Luffy went to the prison and instead of doing things to him that'd break his will, we saw him taking a casual stroll and training. The Scabbards are fine and dandy, and whatever Oda built with Law's friction with the alliance it suddenly disappeared. After that we have last few chapters where Luffy and Co have just casually strolled in Kaido's lair like nothing's happened. Oda tried to build some terror in the Scabbards and Luffy and co got away by simple luck while not losing any of their fractions. And then the icing on the cake is Jinbe just appearing like he didn't have his ass being chased by a pissed off Yonko. While casually mentioning that he escaped with the fishmen. How are we supposed to feel that they have to climb up a mountain when everything's has been going so smoothly for like 70 chapters ?
Next is characterization of major characters. Kaido has his image broken after his horrible involvement in the Oden flashback. He's gotten so little about who he is etc, all he had was his terrifying strength as the strongest creature and the guy who can't die. Oda kills all of that in a single panel with his hurting Oden from behind because Oda had to make Oden a god. There was no need to make Oden look better than he already did, all Oda had to do there was have Kaido beat Oden without any help. That would have build him up even more, at least his strength. But no, Oda had to wank Oden even more. Also Kaido overall has been an afterthought in his own arc. Like he is barely involved at all with Orochi looking like the big bad instead of Kaido. Jack also didn't need to get treated like that, he's a guy who was the big bad of an arc and he's gotten treated like a doofus in this arc. Shutenmaru cutting him was bullshit.
After that there are still answered questions. Robin basically told us nothing about the poneglyph Brook found, Hitetsu for some reason is a ghost and has no purpose ( Would have rather have him develop a relationship with Zoro and craft his an amazing sword that simply giving him Enma), why not show us how Kid got his crew back ? There is not even a mention of that.
I have to admit though that as you said, Oda has done a masterful job with Orochi. He might have a shit design, he might be weak but he's incredibly written. My only gripe in Orochi is that I wish Oda had made his relationship with Oden more personal. It would been more intense if Oden got overthrown by someone whom he really considered a friend.
You're relating sales to the quality of the story based on your opinion. I have no issue with critique. You haven't answered if sales has always matched the way you feel about the story yet. Or is this just 1 of the convenient moments where you use inaccurate sales to justify your gripe with the current handling of this arc? That is the point of my post. Sales don't reflect quality.
Overall sales reminded you that Oda didn't deliver? The sales just popped up somewhere and you weren't looking for it to back up your issues with this arc?
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You're relating sales to the quality of the story based on your opinion. I have no issue with critique. You haven't answered if sales has always matched the way you feel about the story yet. Or is this just 1 of the convenient moments where you use inaccurate sales to justify your gripe with the current handling of this arc? That is the point of my post. Sales don't reflect quality.
Overall sales reminded you that Oda didn't deliver? The sales just popped up somewhere and you weren't looking for it to back up your issues with this arc?
Well as I said they made me think about the flaws of this arc. If this arc that Oda has hyped doesn’t boost them then what will ? After that I came to think about my gripes with this arc. Oda hasn’t delivered on what he promised and this arc has flows previous arcs for me didn’t. At least given the stakes each one has. The stakes of this arc are immense but we are not seeing them
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@Joy:
Well as I said they made me think about the flaws of this arc. If this arc that Oda has hyped doesn’t boost them then what will ? After that I came to think about my gripes with this arc. Oda hasn’t delivered on what he promised and this arc has flows previous arcs for me didn’t. At least given the stakes each one has. The stakes of this arc are immense but we are not seeing them
Most of us read it weekly. If you needed the sales to remind you of the arc's mishaps, then you were looking for the sales. It's convenient and not believable.
Why does sales matter to you? I understand if you were getting money in the industry, but you haven't said that. You are introducing how sales should be at a certain mark, but didn't provide anything that says it should matter to a fan when judging quality. You're backpedalling away from that.
It's one thing to say "i'm not being satisfied", then it's another to say " unsatisfactory sales reflect my disappointment".
Looking to sales for validation makes no sense because they don't match your taste. Unless you are trying to say that sales match your taste all of the time, this whole discussion about "sales needing to be boosted" is fatuous. I believe you've been able to point out the faults and flaws in writing for One Piece without leaning on inaccurate sales figures.
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@Joy:
Well as I said they made me think about the flaws of this arc. If this arc that Oda has hyped doesn’t boost them then what will ? After that I came to think about my gripes with this arc. Oda hasn’t delivered on what he promised and this arc has flows previous arcs for me didn’t. At least given the stakes each one has. The stakes of this arc are immense but we are not seeing them
The first part of the arc was more concerned with introducing Wano's people. It's a natural part of Oda's writing and outright necessary as many are taking part in the war.
I'm actually pretty interested in the Onigashima half because Oda mentioned several sacrifices are gonna happen, which is something that previous arcs lacked except maybe Whole Cake.
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If we go by his logic then Fishmen island is the best arc of the series according to sales. Per volume sales were the highest durnig that time
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Hodi Jones = $$$
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Not only do charts not matter when discussing quality, they aren't credible as well.
Oricon tried to sue a guy for calling them out on their manipulation and hiding of how they count their sales. The case was dropped after almost 3 years in court. He didn't have to pay the 50 m Yen.
Oricon also admits that they don't account for certain mediums and retailers.
Any company that count sales is bound to be caught in lacking validity because humans are doing it. Someone's bound to lie to benefit themselves at 1 point. I see it in the music industry all of the time. Especially in the age of streaming.
Sales are used in business to measure and scale how a company and it's goods are doing. They make it public as marketing. The casual/fickle/trend hopping "fan" sees popularity then ask people "what chapters can I skip" so I can catch up to One Piece. Then the person who wants their favorite series to be popular, replies with "ok, you can skip this part of Alabasta and Thriller Bark isn't that important".
It's this weird fandom war where people want to feel apart of a community and don't really care for the story. They argue sales, best girl and power levels til they get tired. When you use common sense and know sales don't reflect quality in story, they find innovated ways to cover up their nonsense. I unfortunately fell for the bait and entertained it
