You keep bringing up Momo, and there is law right there, with doffy being the almost last warlord to be taken down, and still Luffy got it.
Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !
-
-
Oh, the "Wano has a surprising ending" thing, I can see it now: Kaido accepting the fact that Luffy is JB and becoming his ally against Imu in the final war.
Oh man. Hopefully only my pessimistic headcanon.
-
With Momo, I just don't see him being able to wound Kaido.
Neither can I. But wound a physically and emotionally wounded Kaido, meh, okay.
Not as well as I could see it happening with Luffy.
Gun to my head? I don't think Oda will go ahead with it. It just feels off and he could have alleviated it otherwise if he wanted to.
It would patch things up no doubt, but it'd be an ugly bandage.
Also, yes, how Kidd and Law handled Mom? Chef's freaking kiss.
But Luffy now? Lol, unless Law and Kidd bend the knee ASAP and get to some yaoi-level submissiveness, (which will never happen bc it's against character but NOT against the realistic weight of what just happened) it all falls apart.
Oh, the "Wano has a surprising ending"
I am politely requesting that you stop misquoting my original post. I said 'unique'. Flat out saying something has a 'surprising ending' with no qualifiers is editor level pandering.
I said 'unique'.
I explained why I thought and still think it will be.
I'm sorry to be so blunt, but I'm really tired of people misquoting me, even after I've gone to great lengths to point out I'm being misquoted, and then having the misquote be ridiculed. I realize there's no malice in what you said but just the same, that's how people wind up talking complete made-up BS about me and it's absurd to have put up with that in an age where everyone is held to exactly what they said unless some jellies want their lulz.
-
Pretty sure Greg that some editor talked about Wano having a surprising ending
-
@Joy:
Pretty sure Greg that some editor talked about Wano having a surprising ending
I mean Wano as an arc didn't finish yet, Kaido may be down for good, but Wano isn't done yet.
-
I am politely requesting that you stop misquoting my original post. I said 'unique'. Flat out saying something has a 'surprising ending' with no qualifiers is editor level pandering.
I said 'unique'.
I explained why I thought and still think it will be.
I'm sorry to be so blunt, but I'm really tired of people misquoting me, even after I've gone to great lengths to point out I'm being misquoted, and then having the misquote be ridiculed. I realize there's no malice in what you said but just the same, that's how people wind up talking complete made-up BS about me and it's absurd to have put up with that in an age where everyone is held to exactly what they said unless some jellies want their lulz.
Oh, I had to be more clear, my apologies!:sad: I should learn to always source my references… I was referring to what Shinji Shimizu said a while ago:
-
What if Luffy loses his awakening again and then needs a whole new arc to figure out how it works and how to activate it on command.
-
But what about Zoro Greg. Don't you think it would be awesome to see him relive the Ryuuma legacy and also maybe flesh out his character and heritage after it?
Yes it's me. The Sanji fanboy. But ever since TB and Ryuuma introduction to the canon I thought it may happen
-
I wonder how Oda will make Black Beard, Loki and the SSG feel like bigger threats than Kaido
Have Blackbeard one-shot Fujitora.
Or Kizaru. Either or, really.
-
But what about Zoro Greg. Don't you think it would be awesome to see him relive the Ryuuma legacy and also maybe flesh out his character and heritage after it?
He's done mate. He did it.
That's why King's final attack was a dragon.
I can understand the frustration and displeasure. For me? I'm okay because I understood how Oda would utilize Zoro as soon as his fight was solidified and he got that good shot in on Kaido.
-
I don't mean to sound rude, but there was no way in Hell that Zoro was ever going to be the one to finish off Kaido.
"Breaking news! Kaido is defeated by Straw Hat Luffy's…...crewmate!".
Does that sound right to anyone?
-
Some people still think Zoro is going to do something (battle-wise?). I mean, the guy got all the bones in his body broken, then doubled the damage, so he has more broken bones than the number of bones his body can contain, lol.
I reckon there's still two, maybe three, things for Zoro in this arc: turn Enma black, visit Ryuuma's grave and maybe have a tender moment with Hiyori. All of those seem reserved for the epilogue, after he's healed enough to be able to stand. (Also, blackening the blade may not even happen in this arc now that I think about it… It may be a long-term thing for him to achieve.)
I wouldn't be surprised if Zoro AND Luffy are nerfed for next arc due to the amount of trauma they accumulated. It feels like Luffy will be just as bad once he reverts to his usual self. That brief moment he turned back mid-fight seemed to indicate he's draining himself of life and the only thing keeping him active is Joyboy's heartbeat.
Wano predictions: There will be 5 acts; All Straw Hats will get fights, some in Act 4; Big Mom Pirates will arrive; Carrot will have her moment, but won't join; Yamato will be a Kouzuki samurai and Wano's Guardian; Shanks will visit Luffy in Act 5; Next arc is Mary Geoise.
-
The only sword I see Zoro ever turning permanently black is WI.
The fact that even Oden's swords haven't changed shows the sheer level of power/spirit/Haki/time that must be required for that to happen. Right now the only living person in the series we've seen acomplish this is Zoro's end goal: the worlds greatest swordsman.
His dream is tied to Kuina, and this feat seems like it will only be pulled off around the time Zoro faces Mihawk. Whether before the fight, during it, or it being a lasting result after winning. I can't only see him pulling this off with any sword other than Wado Ichimonji, making her sword one of these few.
-
I'm a bit surprised people aren't still pushing for the idea of Moria killing Kaido… He hasn't really been in the Wano arc, I know, but Zoro is totally wrecked and unconscious but that hasn't stopped his fanboys. Where's the Moria fanboys at? :ninja:
-
Greg random question but do you think Oda would have had one of the Straw Hats be a ninja if Naruto wasn’t a thing?
-
Speaking of Zoro, personally I still hope you'll get Ryuma's sword back. I know Enma is a powerful sword and all but it just isn't doing me for sheer numerical reasons. It's one of Oden's two swords. While Shusui is THE ONE sword of Ryuma. Ok, it can be argued who's the bigger fish in Wano's history, Oden or Ryuma. But Ryuma was the protagonist in one if Oda's earlier works and clearly the inspiration for Zoro. Carrying his sword to me personally has more oopmh to it then Enma.
Also I can't shake the feeling that it carries the 'Momo can keep his sword but the girl doesn't need one' connotation. I'm not daying that's what Oda is saying (thought it wouldn't surprise me if he actually thinks that). It's just how it feels to me.
-
I get the feeling Oda wanted Kaido to be treated the same as Linlin. Oda struck magic with Linlin. At least in the circles I've seen, everyone loves her as a villain and no matter how monstrous she can be, you can still find that tickle of belief that she could be redeemed if her story continues in Elbaf. Kaido in comparison, feels like everyone just wants to see this end and then brush him away to be forgotten.
This fight feels like it's over and Kaido doesn't feel like the type to return as a sore loser in an enraged final form to lose in. If anything, he strikes me as the type to crawl out congratulating Luffy for his win and accept his loss with a laugh. I personally believe Oda intends to have Kaido make the fastest "turn" ever to the point of having a civil conversation with Luffy in post-Wano before his departure from the main story, however that will be. I simply can't imagine Kaido being carted off unconscious at this point.
The problem seems to be, somewhere along the way there's just been this massive disconnect where it feels like someone was afraid the fans would lose interest unless they were reminded every few seconds how much evil Kaido has really done. Or maybe someone was afraid OP would cause some controversy if it seemed like it was being too soft on Kaido for his crimes before the fight was even over. It feels like Yamato's entire existence is just to demonize Kaido more. The humanizing moments just feel awkward with the constant reminders of the evil and how much we're supposed to hate him. The magic of Linlin wasn't found and I can only imagine fan reaction if Kaido does end up in a more positive depiction in the post-arc. Maybe Oda aimed too high with wanting the full package for him and instead it just feels like it's flopping on both accounts.
People ultimately wanted to feel the rage of a new Crocodile or Lucci defeat; Instead we got a new Enel defeat, and without an epic bell to ring. Granted, I still like this ending, but even if Oda nails what I want to see in post-Wano, there's still a lot to criticize about the handling of this villain.
-
Someone in another community brought up the point of Oars II this time bigger and mom-er, and I can’t stop thinking about how much I’d like the strawhats beating her rather than these two.
Just like the half crew on totland was particularly suited to keep her at bay, with Brook handling new homies, Nami Zeus/Hera, Chopper the punches (a punch), and sanji/Jimbe Prometheus, the rest of the crew could have completed the docking and kept the heat on, with zoro taking on Napoleon, and I can’t think on any specific thing for the rest, but Robin used her own weight against her and Franky did a hit and run, with Usopp… probably has a plant for every situation…
In the end big mom was beaten by gravity, a shit ton of bombs and law turning off her power and kid making a hole bellow her, the strawhats could and should have done that, maybe letting zoro and sanji rest and having the rest of the crew who were fresher take over
-
I wouldn't be surprised if Zoro AND Luffy are nerfed for next arc due to the amount of trauma they accumulated. It feels like Luffy will be just as bad once he reverts to his usual self. That brief moment he turned back mid-fight seemed to indicate he's draining himself of life and the only thing keeping him active is Joyboy's heartbeat.
God I wish that happens. But on the condition rest of the SH have more to do, and no new characters taking their panel space.
-
LLuffy being basically crippled after his mega powerup will help balance thigns but its hard to imagine hin being OUT of things for the big party? Zoro being off on the sidelines and quiet is normal but Luffy needs to be able to be crazy.
-
The only sword I see Zoro ever turning permanently black is WI.
Hitetsu already said he's sure Zoro will turn Enma into a black blade, so to me it means it's a 100% feat he will eventually achieve.
I'm a bit surprised people aren't still pushing for the idea of Moria killing Kaido…
Well, I did say it somewhere that Moria would take Kaido's shadow, causing him to die under Sun. Thought is was less prediction and more a random idea that came to me.
Speaking of Zoro, personally I still hope you'll get Ryuma's sword back.
I think he will get Shusui back because he's a descendent of Ryuuma or whatever. I felt that way ever since he asked to visit Ryuuma's grave, so there' still a small plot point for him.
But I think Enma is permanently his. He may probably give Hitetsu the Sandai Kitetsu, ending up with Enma, Shusui and Wado Ichimonji. 3 out of 21 great grade swords.
God I wish that happens. But on the condition rest of the SH have more to do, and no new characters taking their panel space.
That's my hope as well.
LLuffy being basically crippled after his mega powerup will help balance thigns but its hard to imagine hin being OUT of things for the big party? Zoro being off on the sidelines and quiet is normal but Luffy needs to be able to be crazy.
Nothing would keep Luffy away from a party.
Wano predictions: There will be 5 acts; All Straw Hats will get fights, some in Act 4; Big Mom Pirates will arrive; Carrot will have her moment, but won't join; Yamato will be a Kouzuki samurai and Wano's Guardian; Shanks will visit Luffy in Act 5; Next arc is Mary Geoise.
-
You got Marco, Chopper and Law around… they’ll figure something out to bring Luffy and Zoro to a more life than dead state…
-
Well, I did say it somewhere that Moria would take Kaido's shadow, causing him to die under Sun. Thought is was less prediction and more a random idea that came to me.
I think he will get Shusui back because he's a descendent of Ryuuma or whatever. I felt that way ever since he asked to visit Ryuuma's grave, so there' still a small plot point for him.
But I think Enma is permanently his. He may probably give Hitetsu the Sandai Kitetsu, ending up with Enma, Shusui and Wado Ichimonji. 3 out of 21 great grade swords.
He's not getting the Shusui back. Not after the big deal Hiyori made about it that she demanded it to be returned even with the raid being already known. Not even Ushimaru had Shusui and he was well-known as Ryuma's descendant.
He's either keeping the Sandai or replacing it with Nidai, since the latter is just there without a owner.
-
Scabbard, I read your post. Sorry for the misunderstanding. Poor timing it seems. Thank you for understanding where I was coming from.
Greg random question but do you think Oda would have had one of the Straw Hats be a ninja if Naruto wasn’t a thing?
Honestly? I was always certain that when we hit Wano, Usopp would be the crew's default ninja. Sure, Nami has kunoichi stuff, but ninja hits all the marks of Usopp's gimmicky crap.
You look at REAL ninjas and they were originally just farmers who wanted to get the scoop on where other farmers from neighboring towns would be planting shit ^o^ Their real techniques when put on display are (perhaps surprisingly) kinda sorta lame irl and that fits Usopp SO WELL.
If we look at proto-Usopp, I don't think he was full on ninja so I doubt Oda wanted one when the series was close to being solidified but at some early stage, I'm sure he probably agonized over it.
Great question.
-
You got Marco, Chopper and Law around… they’ll figure something out to bring Luffy and Zoro to a more life than dead state…
Potentially Mansherry in the aftermath as well.
There isn't that much time left for that promised big incident involving SH fleet. And I don't see WG resting easy when the news breaks.
-
Thanks for the reply Greg.
But well… King was beaten with a Dragon but not above the Capitol. We still do not have something official about the Ryuuma connection and the plot with Zoro and Death.
If Zoro would be simply out cold for the rest of the arc why even doing something like this?He will come back at Wano to still do something
-
Thanks for the reply Greg.
But well… King was beaten with a Dragon but not above the Capitol. We still do not have something official about the Ryuuma connection and the plot with Zoro and Death.
If Zoro would be simply out cold for the rest of the arc why even doing something like this?He will come back at Wano to still do something
It seems like Oda is going to keep the citizens of Wano away from any sort of danger and threat, so no slaying above the Capital stuff etc.
-
Thanks for the reply Greg.
But well… King was beaten with a Dragon but not above the Capitol.I think that might be holding Oda's feet a bit too close to the fire. They were definitely well within viewable distance of not only Hana no Miyako, but also the festival. It definitely counts as above the capitol within understandable standards.
We still do not have something official about the Ryuuma connection
As Oda mentioned in SBS, he may or may not address it in the series proper.
Gun to my head? Oda is trolling there. If he gets enough angry fan responses that want it, I think he'd totally cover it in detail. If he finds people to be apathetic, he might just leave it.
I know one key piece of Zoro's heritage that makes everything fall into place and I suppose if someone puts on enough tinfoil hats they could reach that same conclusion because the info is pretty much all there, just none of it is connected in a meaningful way. Oda REALLY doesn't need to divulge more than that tiny bit of info but the problem is, weaving the topic naturally into the story. I would say there are still certainly plenty of opportunities for it. Especially if….
and the plot with Zoro and Death.
The reaper stuff is actually true.
As I mentioned previously, if that reaper is an actual soul reaper and they work as a team for the land of the dead, then this is a good time at the finale of a festival for the dead to deal with 'past' individuals.
I mean, ideally, if that's the route he's going, Oden and Momo stuff aside, the most interesting thing he could do with Zoro is have 'Zoro' appear and everyone be frustrated with 'Zoro' not being familiar with them, only to find that 'Zoro' is actually not our Zoro but…
If Zoro would be simply out cold for the rest of the arc why even doing something like this?
I don't know if Zoro being incapacitated will be the same as 'out cold'. Zoro will apparently be power checked by some form of side-effect but we have no idea what it is yet and Oda has been intentionally coy in not mentioning anything about what it is.
-
For now, the reaper thing is symbolic to represent Zoro's at death's door. I'm not expecting any big reveal behind it.
-
I just keep thinking after Zoro said he would become the King Of Hell and now the Grimm reaper thing that he’ll have some hell related power up thing after coming back, I have no idea how that would work or why but I just think it will
Especially now that Sanji got an upgrade with his body and even though no one else seems to think so I think Vegapunk will repair the Raid Suit and take away the negative side effects (the emotionless thing) and if he’s gonna get another big power up so does Zoro since there eternal rivals
-
For now, the reaper thing is symbolic to represent Zoro's at death's door.
My stance is that Oda wouldn't put that in there for no reason. Especially if it's actually a reaper. Oda does symbolism, but not like that. It's way too generic for him.
Ppl are also treating it like the reaper but chances are if it's actually real, it's just one of many that works for Yomi as a guide.
edit:
I cut this from an upcoming column myself. I was getting kind of bored translating it into Japanese and realized that it's a pretty basic thing to 'have' to explain to JP readers even though it may be helpful for foreign readers.
So, here you go!
Our tale of Momotarou seems to be coming to a conclusion and while we’ve definitely had variations of the red and blue oni from legend such as the blue ‘oni’ infected by Queen’s virus, and King’s use of fire, interestingly enough, while Kaido has always been a ‘blue’ oni due to his blue dragon form, this chapter showed us in no uncertain terms, that Kaido himself is capable of fulfilling the role of both blue oni and red oni. By transforming himself into a fire-encapsulated dragon, kaido is the ultimate villain of Momotarou, the red oni. Makes me wonder that if he ever managed to show us an Awakened form, would it be purple? Purple is often associated with not only villainy, but also death in Japan.
-
Oda is permanentely reminding us of the theme of death in Wano. Are Kokeshi dolls actually associated with death as well? Maybe the Void Century Shogun placed them in that room as a memory of those who were killed by the 20 kingdoms.
-
They sure are. Kokeshi look cute but they've come to represent the souls of children who were killed.
That representation hit mainstream in modern times so it's hotly debated but just the same, true or not, there's a general association of them with death.
Unfortunately, that all probably has to do with the Sukiyaki shenanigans.
-
Yeah, we still don't know the significance of Hitetsu being a kokeshi collector, which, without the context of the collection Brook found in the castle basement, it's an entirely random detail for the character.
-
Zoro gonna beat the reaper 1 vs 1 and then acquired Mangekyo Sharingan as it is revealed that the reaper is actually the spirit of his dad, visiting him in the mortal realm to test his convictions.
-
ZKK lives after all. Yeaaah
-
ZKK happened, but it was Zoro kills King.
-
ZKK is boring, I just want to learn more about Ryuma, seems like someone from Void Century Wano…at least he has the vibes.
-
Yeah, we still don't know the significance of Hitetsu being a kokeshi collector, which, without the context of the collection Brook found in the castle basement, it's an entirely random detail for the character.
cough cough
https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/nq2f6b/tenguyama_hitetsu_is_kozuki_sukiyaki_theory/人事を尽くして天命を待つ
-
cough cough
https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/nq2f6b/tenguyama_hitetsu_is_kozuki_sukiyaki_theory/I'm already aware of that That's why I mentioned the context.
-
Yo, Greg! We've missed lots of direct responses to big happenings since the forums have been down!
-
Come back Greg. Give us your thought about recent development properly. Your twitter response is very mild. I believe you are a bit more critical of this arc than you post in the twitter.
-
In the past six months, Wano's ending was said by several sources to be "unique" (Greg), "surprising" (editors), etc. Where did that go? I just don't see it here.
It is the exact formulaic ending we have always had: a big battle climaxes, followed by an aftermath (every island arc), mysteries not fully revealed with a promise of "when the time comes" (Fishman Island, Alabasta), Strawhats are in perfect health without any permanent injury or consequence (every arc after East Blue), a new threat showing up after the big battle and being almost immediately neutralised (Alabasta, Enies Lobby, Thriller Bark, Fishman Island, Dressrosa to some extent), the island has now been "freed" from whatever threat the Strawhats faced (every island arc)... there is even a rushed departure (Alabasta, Skypiea).
What happened? Did Oda change his mind during the long break? I am really surprised that Pluton wasn't unleashed, given how we are supposed to be in the endgame... and, instead, we have the Strawhats going off a tangent, even with a new mystery having been revealed and lots of setup such as Caribou.
This is exactly classic One Piece, which would be perfectly fine and which I like, but... it's hardly unique? And I am starting to have lots of doubts about the endgame. Whatever surprising thing happens, if it happens, would be the start of a new arc, not the end of Wano.
-
The big thing at the end of Wano is obviously the Nika/Joyboy reveal. I think some wires have just been crossed (or been lost in translation) between "ending" and "climax".
-
@SirCaesar Well 2 Yonko went down this arc, not 1 but 2, also Pluton was revealed to be in Wano, literally underneath, revelation of old Wano which was surprising, as well as the stuff with Shanks and Aramaki?
-
I would say it's definitely the Joy Boy/Nika stuff. Once it hit I was like ah so this is the surprise.
-
That's about what I remember as well @SirCaesar
-
@SirCaesar said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
In the past six months, Wano's ending was said by several sources to be "unique" (Greg), "surprising" (editors), etc. Where did that go? I just don't see it here.
Good question but let's get a few things straight.
First, the editors.
People can hate on the editors all they want for whatever reasons they want but there needs to be some level of established ground rules for what passes as damaging or negligent behaviour i.e. statements of behaviour that is actually deserving of being upset over.The editors saying it will be surprising....or anything in the series will be surprising, is something they will always say. They cannot say anything other than that. Those statements have parallels in many other professions of entertainment. Sports stars don't say they're going to play average. Movie stars don't promote their movies by saying it will be average. They will always say it will be surprising and, when it comes to the core target audience they're addressing, they're not wrong.
I've said this before but, One Piece is not written for anyone at this forum. If you're dedicated to the series enough to the point where you discuss it at length on a daily or even weekly basis, you are not OP's target audience. OP's target audience is casual fans. One Piece is intended to be the perfect toilet reading material. I could never be an editor of One Piece because Oda does not want a hardcore fan influencing the direction of the series. He wants/desires individuals who are light fans because that's who he wants to write for.
So 'surprising' might mean different things to different people, but for the people Oda is writing for, I guarantee you they're surprised week to week by stuff most of us take for granted or just assumed would happen.
Anyone is free not to like/respect that, but that would show a gross misunderstanding of how the entertainment industry works as a whole. <spoiler> It's based more on image than reality.
As for me! Yeah, Oda really flubbed that didn't he? I felt that the fire matsuri would be the conclusion/party for the Strawhats. We knew the GB encounter (or something like it) had to occur and if that happened directly after the fire festival then yes, the end of the arc would have played out exactly as I thought Oda was setting it up.
But....
He ignored not only the conclusion of the fire festival, but also the significance of that dawn (which the anime will no doubt fix). When it flashed forward a few days and the Strawhats were just hanging around I was shocked. I thought they would celebrate at the fire festival and have to move on almost immediately. But that was not to be and they just sorta bummed around for a bit.
Really odd choice and most definitely the easiest route in terms of wrapping things up.
I don't think anything changed during the break whatsoever. The recent events were mostly all established already.
While I'm certainly happy that something I didn't expect happened, it also seems like a disappointingly easy route. As you said, it's basically cookie cutter. Yes, there are some unique events that occur (Wano warriors defending the country themselves) but otherwise, it's like Oda waved a magic wand to get his characters healed up and then set for hijinks in a very A to B to C progression.
Oda had a chance to do something unique, he fumbled IMO, womp womp.
-
@Greg said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
I've said this before but, One Piece is not written for anyone at this forum. If you're dedicated to the series enough to the point where you discuss it at length on a daily or even weekly basis, you are not OP's target audience. OP's target audience is casual fans. One Piece is intended to be the perfect toilet reading material.
This pretty much. I may be one of those people too, but I have noticed for a long time that hardcore fans are way too invested in the story of One Piece to the point they literally make it part of their lives. People are overthinking everything about this story, and perhaps, yeah, I'm one of those people, but I also try to not become too obsessed by it. In the end, its a fictional story, that's pretty much it.
There was also this quote, I think, was said by Oda, that One Piece isn't that super deep of a story, but I'm not sure of this.
