Enjoy your week. I'm out for now.
Hoo boy. It might be time to turn the internet off for a week.
Since last week I wanted to dodge spoilers and still got them tossed out on twitter.
Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !
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People on the streets elsewhere say too to get better offline. Reminds me of 907 back then. Beware!
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@Scabbard:
People on the streets elsewhere say too to get better offline. Reminds me of 907 back then. Beware!
I can confirm that. People are saying it is a crazy chapter and it gives me 907-957 vibes. Also next issue is a SJ cover and colorspread
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Ieveryone was disappointed that Usopp didn't really get a moment to shine
how is that even possible lol, it's the arc where he shined the most.
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still got them tossed out on twitter.
Every day I Feel prouder of being a Twitterless Chad.
Come to think of it, AP and Redon's forum have always been my main source of spoilers, Discord doesnt send me any notifications and I dont use it that much.
I might actually accomplish to avoid any spoilers, I just need to find something to keep my mind busy and dont fall for the already existing hype.
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how is that even possible lol, it's the arc where he shined the most.
The first half of the arc he shined the most. But then he needed to make up for his behavior and… didn't. For a hot minute it looked like he might get to fight the number 3 CP9 guy in a battle of liars and then he got... nothing in terms of fights or redemptions. Yeah he had a cool sniping scene but when literally everyone else was getting cool fights he... didn't.
And then after all the emotion and buildup and drama his apology was a really akward looking crying mess and the crew forgave him really easily and it sat weird at the time.
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The first half of the arc he shined the most. But then he needed to make up for his behavior and… didn't. For a hot minute it looked like he might get to fight the number 3 CP9 guy in a battle of liars and then he got... nothing in terms of fights or redemptions. Yeah he had a cool sniping scene but when literally everyone else was getting cool fights he... didn't.
And then after all the emotion and buildup and drama his apology was a really akward looking crying mess and the crew forgave him really easily and it sat weird at the time.
so people were disappointed by some of the best character writing in the series because there wasn't a 1v1 fight…okay.
anyway i think that was a good decision by oda because sanji's speech and usopp's conflict with his insecurity wouldn't work if he beat a CP9 member like everyone else.also the apology scene is one the best moments in the series to me, strange it wasn't well received back then especially for the reasons given (crying mess lol).
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also the apology scene is one the best moments the series to me, strange it wasn't well received back then especially for the reasons given (crying mess lol).
It's a shonen battle series. 1 on 1 fights are how you show your growth and determination.
And everyone else in the crew got one.
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It's a shonen battle series. 1 on 1 fights are how you show your growth and determination.
rigid rules like this are just bad storytelling battle shonen or not. glad all the shonen writers i like don't acually follow it.
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Yeah, I wasn't following weekly back then, so who can say, but it feels absurd to me to complain about Usopp participation in Enies Lobby. Not that's anything new in this fandom…
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Usopp's only taken down almighty Bao Huang, but I think people are going to believe him that he defeated two Tobi Roppos.
Ah poor Nami, her next bounty is making her no justice to make Usopp's larger.
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Yeah, I wasn't following weekly back then, so who can say, but it feels absurd to me to complain about Usopp participation in Enies Lobby. Not that's anything new in this fandom…
You have to have the context of that arc being weekly. It was a SOLID YEAR of nonstop fights and powerups and waiting for him to get his moment of redemption. And it never came. He put on that mask and disguised himself and put himself in the thick of it and then… nothing.
Usopp's entire motivation that ac was that he was too weak to carry his weight and that he was worthless. And at the end of the day? He was still too weak to carry his weight and was worthless. Sanji's speech is great and all and works in the long term, and the moment where he long range sniped the keys to Robin was a nice moment, but that's not the catharsis we needed at the time. We didn't know at the time how Merry's death would go or the final apology, or how usopp would be actually changed from teh experience. (Like he never again pulled the "I am captain" bit after that).
If you read the arc straight through its fine because you get his fightign Luffy and leaving, and then all the other stuff, and then through all the fights in an hour or two and then onto the apology... all in a day or two total depending on your reading speed. And then right after go to Thriller Bark and he gets his moment there.
But week by week for a year? In what was the longest fight sequence in the series at the time? Where they keep doing musical chairs and switching opponents and it kept seeming like he was eventually going to do something? Burnout was real, and that particular bit was disappointing.
Same thing is happening in Wano on a much longer timescale. Where everyone's again been disappointed with Usopp and Nami's outings for instance and are consoled by CHopper doing... okay.. But they'll hopefully get justice later.
Heck, look at what all the poor Carrot fans are going through! Even if you don't expect her to join the crew, lots of people were expecting her to do something, anything, with Peros for like a solid year and that went absolutely nowhere.
Yes, its hard to imagine having problems with a tense powerhouse arc years after the fact. But when it was ongoing at the time? It was a slog.
But that's the main reason I haven't been bothered by Wano's pace that much. I've been down this road multiple times before. It usually works out in the end.
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I do remember getting quite frustrated about Usopp not getting a fight in Enies Lobby.
He was my favorite character for a very long time, and it got more and more frustrating.
It's weird that his last real fight was against Perona, and the last time he beat up a stronger opponent was in Alabasta. It's been, what, 14+ years since he got an 1v1?
He sniping Spandam and Sugar were awesome moments that showed skill, but he still needs an actual fight to call his own.
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And there was enough Cipher Pools for everyone, but I guess Blueno had to serve a purpose towards hyping Gear 2nd.
I think is just Oda disliking to follow a trend of straight up going main character heroes vs main villains, since that'll make every arc soooo predictable.
Even in Skypiea, Usopp and Sanji went versusless while Wyper was ass-whooping a Priest and Enel himself.
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And there was enough Cipher Pools for everyone, but I guess Blueno had to serve a purpose towards hyping Gear 2nd.
I think is just Oda disliking to follow a trend of straight up going main character heroes vs main villains, since that'll make every arc soooo predictable.
Even in Skypiea, Usopp and Sanji went versusless while Wyper was ass-whooping a Priest and Enel himself.
I don't think we need a fight for everyone in every arc, but some arcs do deserved more fights, and some character do skip fights in too many arcs.
IMO, some characters, like Chopper, Robin or Nami, can get away with not so often fights because their roles go far beyond that. Nami shines whenever we are at sea, or when she does crazy stuff with her climatact. Chopper shines as a doctor. Robin shines as the archeologist.
But Usopp is supposed to be a fighter. His dream is to become stronger and braver. When he's not fighting, he's just being cowardly or using tricks that are often underwhelming (or just plain lucking out of tough situations), and that's frustrating. We are in the New World, and he's the only Straw Hat I'm not sure could beat Arlong in a 1v1 by now.
So, each missed opportunity hurts him a lot more.
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Does Chopper shine tho? I feel like he never get much focus on his doctor skills. The ice onis being a rare exception
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Does Chopper shine tho? I feel like he never get much focus on his doctor skills. The ice onis being a rare exception
Well, battle-medicine, only the Ice Oni Virus, but Choppter was never presented as a failure in medicine. He was always portrayed as really competent, even if it wasn't within a dangerous situation.
Meanwhile, out of combat, Usopp is still a lying coward after a thousand chapters. And the few times he needs to push beyond that, he often fails or lucks out. There was endless frustration when he finally manned up against Trebol and then… he just loses. Off-screen. And saves the day by pure luck.
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I definitely agree that overall Usopp is being treated badly by Oda. Heck, I would even say that looking at him with the 1000+ chapters, the handling of Usopp is one of Oda's biggest failures in this series.
But before I elaborate on that, I'd like to disagree on some parts how bad he was in Enies Lobby. I'm not disagreeing that it's disappointing that he didn't get a fight. But rather that it was a silly expectation to begin with that he would be taking on Jabra. Back then some of us already stated the clear thing, that just like with Mr. 2 it ultimately would be Sanji and bit Usopp to take him on. But people wanted Usopp to be the obe to take on Jabra. Not because it made way in terms of which parings made the most sense but because they simply wanted Usopp to take on such a strong foe. Just as many people expected him to go to Elbaf with Oimo and Karsee even thought it was clear that this wouldn't happen. So I would say valid critisizms aside a huge chunk comes of people setting themselves up for disappointment because of what they themselves hoped for, ignoring the obvious signs.
Also on the apology part. That part was great. Before that I remember arguments where Usopp fanboys defended how he was in the right to be as rude to Luffy and were not willing to accept any form of critisism of the character. The scene made a clear statement about his behaviiur beeing wrong and that he shouldn stop trying to beat around a bush and just accept that he was wrong and apologise for it. He did and it was a good moment. I can see hiw his acceptance might be considered a bit too quick but the general idea of the apology is not a bad part in my book.
Anyways that aside, let's get to the actual part why I think Usopp is the worst treated character by Oda. The guy get's pretty much reset all the time rendering his previous growth pointless. I can accept that in Arabasta he's still scared even he went through finding his courage moments in Arlong Park and Little Garden. It was the first time they took on a Warlord crew. He got beaten more badly than ever before but he still found his courage. Plus it was a new type of courage in standing your ground not for your own health but for the name of your comrade.
However when we go through so many more arcs from there and then he still runs away in Dressrosa because he "doesn't want to die for some hero bullshit" then it just doesn't add up. Where did all those experiences he went through go? Where's the guy who put his life on the line for the sake of two random giants he just meat and whose duel touched him deeply. Am I supposed to believe that this guy wouldn't feel the slightest feeling of inspirational bravery in Toysoldiers' fight, who for ten years fights fir the country by himself while being forgotten by everyone. Nah, I guess the readers like the recycled routine of him running away only to find his courage AGAIN. And boy was it worth the pay off with his "fight" with Trebol being off screened.
But wait, there's more. Now we are at Wano where not only we have another reset, no, he develops in the opposite direction. Remember in Arabasta when he found his courage and told Chopper they one should not stay still to save their hide when a friends name is besmirched? Well he surely pulled a 180 on that one when Ulti was telling Nami to say that Luffy won't become Pirate King. And I don't accept "he did it for Nami" as an excuse. Back then he also told Chopper that they had to stand up. Nami shouldn't be treated any different here.
The sad thing is, that I'e really lost hope that Oda will actually make Usopp a brave warrior of the sea. Until a few years ago I still thought, that we will continue to go through this loop and suddenly Oda will flio the switch and Usopp is brave rather than it happening step by step. But nowadays I fear, he will be brave only by name and reputation. All the nonesense with Buggy shows me how a guy, who was with the Pirate King and faced opponents like Newgate's meb could still be a wimp while later. Not only that but being respected and most likely feared by people who are stronger then him. But hey that's just Buggy right? Doesn't have to be the same for Usopp. Unless you realize that the entire God Usopp nonesense is already a case of his true self being blown way out of proportion. Of course it can be a one off thing. But with everything described I'm not holding my hopes up anymore. It just seems like Oda really doesn't know how to write a physically weak character to still grow in terms of bravery.
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I've been caught up for water 7. I joined this forum 15 years ago!
For everyone that binges the series, the most recent current arc, the first one they read in real time, is ALWAYS the worst one. And then its fine on rereads.
Wano has gone way too long but it hasn't truly hit any lowly lows… you've just had more time to stew on them and see other people discussing them. And its usually the negative stuff that draws more attention and focus than the positives.
Water 7 was unbearably slow and bloated and too long when that happened, and everyone was disappointed that Usopp didn't really get a moment to shine, and that was 15 years ago, but its perfectly fine on rereads, and the very next arc his got his stuff against Perona. Same for Thriller Bark, Impel Down, the War, Fishman Island, Punk hazard Dresserossa, Cakeland... they were all disappointing and bloated and wasting too much time on X and not enough time on Y and were the worst arc ever while they were happening. basically the only arcs that DON'T fall victim are the extremely short ones. Your Saobondys, Amazon Lilly and Zous. Where they're only like 10 chapters and there's just no time to get tired and its all discovery and new stuff.
It's a normal part of the process, its not anything new. It's not the manga that's changed, its your experience reading it that's changed.
Thanks for the reply .I guess its true Damn 15 years is too long.I am just 20 years old myself but you have been reading since so long.You are the true OG.Respect for having such patience .
Yeah i think you are right my experinece of reading changed.
If you have to rank Marineford, WCI ,Dressrosa and Wano how will you rank them.
I have seen a lot of criticism on WCI by weekly readres but since I binged read it all at once I reallly enjoyed it except for that wedding cake scene–- Update From New Post Merge ---
I mean the pacing is wonky, the fights are all over the place, there's a ton of missed potential going on, the villains need fleshing out, Straw Hats don't get consistent focus and sometimes feel like guests in a Wano manga, the art is claustrophobic, there's way too many unnecessary reaction panels, and I've gotten burnt out a couple times now (first time in the prison, second time later in the raid).
That said it fixes some things Dressrosa did poorly. Dressrosa felt really disjointed all around. Wano's story structure has been more clear, flashbacks are largely consolidated into a larger flashback (that unexpectedly went into Roger and Whitebeard lore, making it feel more relevant), the local stuff is fitting into the larger worldbuilding very meaningfully, the various factions intermingling is more natural, the secondary characters have their motives and actions better executed, and the stakes feel more impactful. That said, Dressrosa has better local flavor, the civilians aren't awful, and the Doffy family was more entertaining. Those aren't as big as deals though.
Whole Cake is different and is just better in most ways compared to Dressrosa and Wano. Charlottes and BMP were good villains and it officially salvaged Sanji's character for me. He went from my original fav SH to worst back to one of my favs. I didn't think it was possible. I think Wano continued his character arc nicely (although this forum won't have it, tsk).
And overall I just like how the story has progressed to such a larger scale. Lots of decades long mysteries are coming together, payoff is right around the corner. Luffy is rising to the TOPPEST top. I know people don't like that the focus isn't as strong on the SHs anymore, but I doubt Oda planned 25+ years worth of story for each individual crewmate to tell. I enjoy it now as viewing the soon-to-be pirate king's crew's journey, like how we saw a glimpse of Roger's journey in the flashback. One day the SHs will be the ones to reach Laugh Tale and I'm more excited than ever for it.
(Enies Lobby baby btw)
Thanks for the reply and analysi.I too am really excited for SH to reach Laugh tale
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
I've been week to week since around the timeskip and one of the biggest things I've seen in fan communities over the years is people always having a hard time with the first arc they read after they catch up. The whiplash of going from having 19,000 pages to read at whatever pace suits you to getting just 17 and having to wait a week hurts big time. And on top of that, you end up overthinking the low points - it's easy to skim over something you don't like and focus on the good stuff in an archive binge, but when the latest chapter ends on something you're not into there's nothing to do but stew on it until something else happens. Not to say there are no valid critiques of Wano, but freshly caught up readers have been calling literally every arc since the timeskip the worst one so far. If you'd asked right at the end of Dressrosa how other arcs stacked up to it, the community consensus would have been that it was bloated, slow, everything wrong with post-timeskip One Piece, and so on and so forth. Now people who got to binge through Dressrosa hold it up as the standard to compare to. Give it a year or two, and Elbaf will be having the lowest lows of the series while Wano is looked back on fondly.
For me, personally, I've been having a great time most weeks, but I'd definitely say the Onigashima battle is starting feel like it'll never end. I'm ready to see plot threads wrap up and move onto the next thing. We've spent two freaking years in one location. I know the interior of the Skull Dome as well as my own neighbourhood, we've been around it so many times. I want new places. I want the big lore dump and the outside world update instead of the fragments we've been getting between blows. I don't think the things that are happening are bad, but they've been happening for so long. On the other hand, the rooftop fights alone (from the Scabbards to the Supernovas to the 1v1) are going to go down as all-time highlights for the series, worth all the time and trouble it took to set them up.
I think when I look back at Wano and can read it leisurely over the course of a week or two instead of over four years, it's going to hold up as something really special. I remember feeling the same fatigue as the final setpieces of Whole Cake Island and Dressrosa carried on, only to find I liked them a lot more on reread.
In summary, it's been fun, but it's been exhausting, but it'll almost certainly be better when read in volumes instead of weekly, like most parts of this story have been.
Thanks man for the reply.It sure will feel good on reread.I dont know about others but in general I liked the Luffy Zoro and sanji fight more from in any other arc.Only fight i didnt like was of Franky and Nami.Really loved your line "he whiplash of going from having 19,000 pages to read at whatever pace suits you to getting just 17 ".Its so true
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I'm also one of the many that began reading weekly during Water 7 and can attest to the general mood of the fandom being angry that Usopp didn't get a big redemption battle to prove his worth in the crew during Enies Lobby. Especially after being sidelined in the Jabra conflict.
But as Robby said, it's one of those things that completely works upon marathon rereading. But when you dealt with the emotional level of Usopp leaving the crew and then read week to week, with no idea on how it would be resolved, it didn't feel like he got his moment at the time in the arc in which he left the crew and had issues of his worth among the powerhouses on the ship with him.
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Oda is never gonna stop shafting Usopp
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For me, Oda's biggest failure with regard to Usopp post time skip is to have completely removed his arsenal and replaced it by those pop green which simply are not interesting. They are just a magical random ready made tools.
Usopp ingenior genius has been completely lost and it is a bit sad.
Countrary to many, I don't expect that he will become the bravest warior of the sea. So for me, it is just fine that he is a big coward that becomes brave when his friends are in danger. -
He wants to become a "Brave Warrior Of The Sea." Not "Braviest". And you must not be paying attention to his fights, because his arsenal is a combination of Pop Greens and other items he's acquired over his journey. And he's still using clever methods to beat his opponents. It's just been awhile since he's had a true 1v1.
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But rather that it was a silly expectation to begin with that he would be taking on Jabra.
Jabra was set up as a guy that lied a lot and made up stories. And he was a wolf. (the boy cried). There were legit reasons to believe they'd face off after Oda put the in the same room. And then eventually delayed for many chapters by attaching Usopp to Zoro. . Obviously not in a direct physical confrontation, but Usopp running, settign up traps, making clever use of dials could have certainly taken it. His fight against Luffy showed exactly what he could do when he had his ind set on it… and his fight against Perona in the next arc was also all bluff and tricks. Heck, way back in the day he beat a fishman with really stupid items and it worked.
To this day I still wish he'd put impact dials into his shoes and done mega jumps with them.
No one was expecting him to get into a punching contest.
--- Update From New Post Merge ---
For me, Oda's biggest failure with regard to Usopp post time skip is to have completely removed his arsenal and replaced it by those pop green which simply are not interesting. They are just a magical random ready made tools.
It would have worked if he'd come back with exactly 5 or 6 pop greens and Oda had made it clear what they all were early on…. but its been over a decade and he's STILL pulling out new ones. There's at least 20 different named Pop Green plants.
And you must not be paying attention to his fights, because his arsenal is a combination of Pop Greens and other items he's acquired over his journey. And he's still using clever methods to beat his opponents. It's just been awhile since he's had a true 1v1.
When was the last time he used dials? REALLY used them? He incorporated some into his slingshot, but when did he last absorb an attack with impact or reject dial? Or use a jet dial to get a huge burst of speed? Flash dial to blind people? Has he EVER used a Eisen dial to create a cloud that's as strong as iron? And what about his other tricks like ground spikes or inflatable weapons or his general long distance sniping? He unlocked haki all the way back in Dresserossa ahnd still hasn't really used it.
Even his slingshot is a popgreen now. He waters it and then it eats things.
Pop green completely replaced his arsenal, rather than complimenting it.
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Brave or braviest is just semantic. The thing is he won't stop being a coward which is the thing people are expecting about Usopp.
Also I'm pretty sure he has never used his famous rubberband or usopp's noise which were his trademarks pretimeskip. He may have used one of his fake hammers though.
Anyway, 99% of his actions rely now on these dumb pop greens -
I remember thinking oh Usopp is gonna steadily grow to a point where he can realistically take on Van Auger. But it seems that Oda plans to just have Usopp be useless and then asspull him being able to beat a threat of that level. Or maybe he'll never do that and people can go oh it was never going to happen since -insert way back chapter-
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I remember thinking oh Usopp is gonna steadily grow to a point where he can realistically take on Van Auger. But it seems that Oda plans to just have Usopp be useless and then asspull him being able to beat a threat of that level. Or maybe he'll never do that and people can go oh it was never going to happen since -insert way back chapter-
He was never gonna do that. remember in Ennias Lobby where Sanji gave him a big speech about how maybe combat wasnt his thing and he is there for support. Plus you at post timeskip and you will Usopp usually lose physical confrontation like against trebol or Page one and only help by doing things sneakily like his shot against Sugar.
Now you are ready for the future disapointement.
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Also on the apology part. That part was great. Before that I remember arguments where Usopp fanboys defended how he was in the right to be as rude to Luffy and were not willing to accept any form of critisism of the character. The scene made a clear statement about his behaviiur beeing wrong and that he shouldn stop trying to beat around a bush and just accept that he was wrong and apologise for it. He did and it was a good moment. I can see hiw his acceptance might be considered a bit too quick but the general idea of the apology is not a bad part in my book.
I'm one the few that dont like the apology. First Usopp doesnt choose to apologize. He is forced to so he wont be abandonned which to me kill any sincerity and self reflection of the apology. If you do it under duress than that's your fear talking not regret. Second I consider Zoro clearly does what he's angry at Usopp for doing when he threaten to walk if the crew(including Luffy) doesnt do things the way he wants. Also Ennias Lobby happened where Usopp more than proved his worth and attachment to the crew and Zoro knows it. Third the confrontation happened because Luffy made light of the Merry importance(after he got angry in a similar way to Usopp with Kaku) while he was feeling after losing the money he told Luffy he didnt think he should carry(and Luffy promised he would protect him than bailed). Fourth If Luffy fought with Zoro over wanting to give away Kuina's sword or fought Nami wanting to get rid of the tangerines with no explanation I wouldnt expect them to have to grovel to Luffy later. I would expect Luffy to have to explain why its important and them mutually showing remorse.
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Shanks could've very well be aware of who Ace was and that he was on that island. Maybe the Gomu Gomu was stolen to give to Ace in the future but Luffy messed up things
Lol no. Ace met Shanks. Shanks never knew he was Roger's son. He only realised after Marineford
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He was never gonna do that. remember in Ennias Lobby where Sanji gave him a big speech about how maybe combat wasnt his thing and he is there for support. Plus you at post timeskip and you will Usopp usually lose physical confrontation like against trebol or Page one and only help by doing things sneakily like his shot against Sugar.
Now you are ready for the future disapointement.
Starting early are we
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I'm one the few that dont like the apology. First Usopp doesnt choose to apologize. He is forced to so he wont be abandonned which to me kill any sincerity and self reflection of the apology. If you do it under duress than that's your fear talking not regret. Second I consider Zoro clearly does what he's angry at Usopp for doing when he threaten to walk if the crew(including Luffy) doesnt do things the way he wants. Also Ennias Lobby happened where Usopp more than proved his worth and attachment to the crew and Zoro knows it. Third the confrontation happened because Luffy made light of the Merry importance(after he got angry in a similar way to Usopp with Kaku) while he was feeling after losing the money he told Luffy he didnt think he should carry(and Luffy promised he would protect him than bailed). Fourth If Luffy fought with Zoro over wanting to give away Kuina's sword or fought Nami wanting to get rid of the tangerines with no explanation I wouldnt expect them to have to grovel to Luffy later. I would expect Luffy to have to explain why its important and them mutually showing remorse.
Luffy is the captain and Usopp pretty much attempted a mutiny.
Luffy didn't make light of Merry. He knew that Merry couldn't go on and needed to be convinced by it from pro shipwrights, but Usopp was (surprisingly) the one acting immature.
There's no other way to look at it. Usopp was in the wrong. And his apology wasn't forced since the Straw Hats were under attack. Oimo and Kashi were still at Water 7 after all and even offered to take him to Elbaf, so there was no risk of abandonment.
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I'm disappointed Oda didn't do more with Ussops 'Sogeking' persona.
After Thriller Bark, I could see Ussop increasingly relying on masking up to get him through fights and stuff, until the mask is eventually destroyed and he's basically forced to accept he was this heroic King of Snipers all along.
Massively cliched I know, but I think it would've been a better character arc for him than whatever he's on at the moment. -
For me, Oda's biggest failure with regard to Usopp post time skip is to have completely removed his arsenal and replaced it by those pop green which simply are not interesting. They are just a magical random ready made tools.
Usopp ingenior genius has been completely lost and it is a bit sad.
Countrary to many, I don't expect that he will become the bravest warior of the sea. So for me, it is just fine that he is a big coward that becomes brave when his friends are in danger.I agree. Those pop greens are absolute shit. While I don't think that even Kabuto was the right way to go as it just gives him a weapon to fire stronger rounds rather than actually improving his seriously lacking sniping skills, at least it utilizes those aspect of sniping skills he already has developed well. However the pop greens often do some AOE damage rather than requiring pinpoint percision. It's like using a bazooka instead of a sniper rifle. He doesn't even need to hit an enemy. If something explodes next to them it's enough to cause damage. Also friggin' Boaty Banana. He pulls out his slinghot, fires a shot and suddenly a bananaboat appears. What the actual hell?
Anyways, because I know people will ask what I meant by seriously lacknig sniping skills. Did I not see how Usopp times and again can snipe things from a far distance? To that I say, that I have seen that and this aspect of sniping he is very good at. However that's not the only way to be good at sniping. This aspect pretty much focuses on enemies that are either not moving, moving only a little or moving in an easily readable and predictable line. Such as Spandam who was walking straight ahead on the Bridge of Hesitation. What Usopp so far has always sucked it, is actually locking on and hitting a target that is aware of him and tries to dodge him. Be it in movies, books or video games. Insane sniping skills are always shown in a manner where the one being targeted feels an oppressive presence and threat of the sniper (if they know there is one) because no matter what you do, which way you dodge, the chances are that the reactions are so insane high level that the sniper will keep locked on to the target. That's nothing Usopp has displayed so far.
For instance he couldn't lock on to Jabra. Yeah, he's using Soru to move fast and disappear. Only good fighters with a sharp eye like Luffy, Zoro and Sanji can keep up. But that's the thing, the one thing Usopp can have on par with those three if not even be better than them, is his eyesight. He doesn't have to be able to punch, slash or kick back like those three. But of all those three, he's the one with the supposedly good eyesight, why not have him actually see the CP9 agents when they are Soru-ing. But wait, there's even a worse display of hitting a target that "dodges": Absalom. Back when took Nami in front of them, Usopp was shooting at him and Absalom avoided the shot by turning invisible. I kid you not, in chapter 457 Absalom stands there holding Nami in his hands. Usopp shots at the clearly visible enemy. Then Absalom turns invisible and that leads to Usopp not hitting. What the actual hell? There's other examples but I cannot really remember from the top of my head.
The thing I'm saying here is not that this is universally a bad thing for Usopp. Actually the contrary. Still having things to learn about sniping and improve in the areas where he is not as good as in others, is actually a great opportunity for Oda to write some growth for his fighting abilities. But instead of doing that we focus on stupid gimmicky things that remove him even further from developing universally good sniping skills. Even the way how he "sniped" Sugar in Dressrosa falls victim to this. Yes, it showed some clever thinking and inventing from his side to get to an enemy he couldn't see in a straight line. But the thing I'm asking is, why can't Oda be creative with raw sniping skills in itself? Why does Usopp need the help of gadgets to shoot around the corner? Why not develop high level shooting skills where people can actually fire curved shots? I know, that sounds ridiculous at first. Until you realize we're talking about a story where characters literally can send flying slashes from normal swords. Why shouldn't high level sharpshooters be able to develop something like shots that can take a turn (like in the movie Wanted)? Heck, the scene I've referenced above with Usopp shooting at Absalom has Usopp actually shooting something like a curved shot. Most likely that was an effect of Kabuto too rather than being his sniping skill, but it still looked more like an actual shot than something that needs gadgets to change trajectory mid flight. Doesn't even have to be curved shots. How about bouncing bullets off of walls to create a ricochet shot? Just actually be good at shooting instead of using magic bullets to make up for your lack to shoot around the corner.
Jabra was set up as a guy that lied a lot and made up stories. And he was a wolf. (the boy cried). There were legit reasons to believe they'd face off after Oda put the in the same room. And then eventually delayed for many chapters by attaching Usopp to Zoro. . Obviously not in a direct physical confrontation, but Usopp running, settign up traps, making clever use of dials could have certainly taken it. His fight against Luffy showed exactly what he could do when he had his ind set on it… and his fight against Perona in the next arc was also all bluff and tricks. Heck, way back in the day he beat a fishman with really stupid items and it worked.
The second Jabra was confirmed to be close to Kaku in terms of battle power it was pretty much clear that he would be taking on Sanji. It was obvious back then and shouldn't even be argued nowadays. The entire wolf and lie thingy is completely something that people blew out of proportion to fit their narritive of Usopp magically developing into the badass they wanted him to be, even though nothing in the story ever indicated that there was justifyable reason for such a growth.
I'm one the few that dont like the apology. First Usopp doesnt choose to apologize. He is forced to so he wont be abandonned which to me kill any sincerity and self reflection of the apology. If you do it under duress than that's your fear talking not regret. Second I consider Zoro clearly does what he's angry at Usopp for doing when he threaten to walk if the crew(including Luffy) doesnt do things the way he wants. Also Ennias Lobby happened where Usopp more than proved his worth and attachment to the crew and Zoro knows it. Third the confrontation happened because Luffy made light of the Merry importance(after he got angry in a similar way to Usopp with Kaku) while he was feeling after losing the money he told Luffy he didnt think he should carry(and Luffy promised he would protect him than bailed). Fourth If Luffy fought with Zoro over wanting to give away Kuina's sword or fought Nami wanting to get rid of the tangerines with no explanation I wouldnt expect them to have to grovel to Luffy later. I would expect Luffy to have to explain why its important and them mutually showing remorse.
Yes, he is forced into apologizing because just as in real life, sometimes people need a rough wake up call to make them realize that there's not always an easy way out. When one fucks up big time, then it's not the responsibility of others to forgive easily. It's nice when it happens but it cannot be taken for granted. And I'm happy that we went the route of him not getting the easy way out. If there's anything I don't like about the scene is, that he needed to be pushed rather than the first thing coming out of his mouth being an honest apology in the first place.
Also Luffy did not make light of Merry's importance. There was an entire build up for him that brought him to the conclusion that Water Seven is where they part with Merry. The only thing he did was presenting this in a blunt manner to Usopp, who missed the entire build up to it while he already is coping with feeling guilty for what happened and having the deepest connection with the ship. I do agree that even if someone accidentally hurts someone's feelings that doesn't obsolve them from the responsibility of apologizing, once they realize that they hurt someone. But Usopps reaction took the entire moment in a different direction by him deliberately confronting and insulting Luffy. Whatever Luffy said from that point onwards, might have also not been very diplomatic but as the captain he absolutely has the right to confront Usopp for his behaviour. Luffy for defending his decision.
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Oda is never gonna stop shafting Usopp
Which is why I just stopped rooting for him.
When he came back post-timeskip and his "upgrade" were some unexplained "do whatever the plot needs" seeds, I was already bothered. Then, when it was shown that even that didn't improve him that much, I just gave up.
It's one thing to have him as the weakest. Technically, the SH have become so strong that even the weaker could take on a CP9 agent or any East Blue captain with ease by now. Except Usopp doesn't feel like that.
In the last 500+ chapters, the only moment that made Usopp really really cool was shooting Sugar, because of how impossibly hard that shot was, and because he got a real upgrade there. Still, it feels so little for 500+ chapters.
Wano predictions: There will be 5 acts; All Straw Hats will get fights, some in Act 4; Big Mom Pirates will arrive; Carrot will have her moment, but won't join; Yamato will be a Kouzuki samurai and Wano's Guardian; Shanks will visit Luffy in Act 5; Next arc is Mary Geoise.
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Which is why I just stopped rooting for him.
When he came back post-timeskip and his "upgrade" were some unexplained "do whatever the plot needs" seeds, I was already bothered. Then, when it was shown that even that didn't improve him that much, I just gave up.
It's one thing to have him as the weakest. Technically, the SH have become so strong that even the weaker could take on a CP9 agent or any East Blue captain with ease by now. Except Usopp doesn't feel like that.
In the last 500+ chapters, the only moment that made Usopp really really cool was shooting Sugar, because of how impossibly hard that shot was, and because he got a real upgrade there. Still, it feels so little for 500+ chapters.
Being the weakest never bothered me that much. Personally when I got into One Piece I found Usopp to be one of the things I considered great about the story, especially since I was still heavily under the influence of DragonBall were everybody is a brave fighter that gladly plunges into a fight against strong opponents. Yes, even Yamcha who never wins doesn't run away. Usopp was never my favorite but I liked that amongst the protagonists we had a guy like him who breaks the mold and can still have a place and be a hero.
But Oda clearly doesn't know what to do with a guy that comes with this premise as he reuses the same development again and again. And someone who really likes Tokyo Revengers it started bothering me even more because that series shows how you can actually write a physically weak character still grow and be a badass. I know that this series is not popular here which is fine. But one thing that the series really has is a unique protagonist, who is pretty much the physically weakest guy amongst all the other fighters around him. He starts out as a good for nothing and develops into someone who keeps pushing forward and plunges into fights because he needs to stop a catastrophy from happening. I'm not trying to make a case for people to read the series. I'm just trying to say that this is just one recent example of a popular manga how a physically weak character can be portrayed well. For all his creativity Oda surely doesn't have a clue how to write Usopp well.
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Usopp best moments are the one when he resemble Takemichi (cheering for Luffy in Enies Lobby, reacting to Luffy's dream being insulted in Arabasta…)
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Usopp best moments are the one when he resemble Takemichi (cheering for Luffy in Enies Lobby, reacting to Luffy's dream being insulted in Arabasta…)
The moment where he got angry at Miss Merrychristmas is one of my favorite Strawhat moments in the entire series. That was back when the anime was good and I still vividly remember the face when he get's angry at her snapping out of his cowardice. When he's like Takemichi, he's just amazing.
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Imo Usopp not getting a fight in EB makes sense because the point of his arc is that he doesn't feel he belongs in the crew for being weak, while the reality is that he was very useful regardless of that, by he was blind to it, which caused inferiority complex that eventually exploded.
Him getting an actual power up that made him strong enough to win fights through brute force would have solved the conflict, but would have been a lazy cop out. Because it would prove Usopp's initial belief that only physical strength matters. And that was not the message Oda was trying to tell with his arc, it was that strength is not the only way someone can be useful. So him not getting a 1v1 fight was a good way to deliver that point across (granted, winning a fight through trickery instead if strength might have too, but I like the solution we got).
I love how OP has always been a story where not necessarily everyone can fight and not every single conflict gets solved through brute force. Sometimes there is spying, negotiation, sniping, etc. Part of me still wishes Nami had never gotten the clima tact because Nami being a non fighter who was still very useful was super cool.
Now in Wano, I'd say Usopp's problem isn't a lack of a fight, but a lack of an arc. Even Nami and Chopper, who lacked fights, got some kind of character development. Usopp has been stuck playing sidekick to Nami. I'm fine if the arc ends without him fighting, but he needs some big character moment.
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A few things about "Usopp had no chance against Jabura" (or Trebol): he didn't need to win.
He just needed to show growth. To not be completely useless. Imagine if he actually hurts Jabura with some attack before Jabura overpowers him. Same with Trebol, imagine he stands a small chance before being defeated.
Even in defeat, you can show a character is growing, and that's what I feel is lacking in Usopp. Most of his defeats show no growth in him.
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Jabra was set up as a guy that lied a lot and made up stories. And he was a wolf. (the boy cried). There were legit reasons to believe they'd face off after Oda put the in the same room. And then eventually delayed for many chapters by attaching Usopp to Zoro. . Obviously not in a direct physical confrontation, but Usopp running, settign up traps, making clever use of dials could have certainly taken it. His fight against Luffy showed exactly what he could do when he had his ind set on it… and his fight against Perona in the next arc was also all bluff and tricks. Heck, way back in the day he beat a fishman with really stupid items and it worked.
To this day I still wish he'd put impact dials into his shoes and done mega jumps with them.
No one was expecting him to get into a punching contest.
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It would have worked if he'd come back with exactly 5 or 6 pop greens and Oda had made it clear what they all were early on.... but its been over a decade and he's STILL pulling out new ones. There's at least 20 different named Pop Green plants.
When was the last time he used dials? REALLY used them? He incorporated some into his slingshot, but when did he last absorb an attack with impact or reject dial? Or use a jet dial to get a huge burst of speed? Flash dial to blind people? Has he EVER used a Eisen dial to create a cloud that's as strong as iron? And what about his other tricks like ground spikes or inflatable weapons or his general long distance sniping? He unlocked haki all the way back in Dresserossa ahnd still hasn't really used it.
Even his slingshot is a popgreen now. He waters it and then it eats things.
Pop green completely replaced his arsenal, rather than complimenting it.
Impact Wolf is a combination of a Impact Dial and Pop Greens. Usopp is a Sniper, his job isn't to be within punching distance of someone. And again he hasn't had that many 1v1 to really showcase himself, Usopp should have had a real fight on Wano.
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Pop Greens are not "do whatever the plot needs" though. It may have looked that way during the first two arcs post-TS since Usopp didn't immediately explain everything he could do at Sabaody (and there was nothing outrageous he did), but I don't remember Usopp using any new Pop Green since Punk Hazard… so I guess Oda was slowly establishing his new abilities in FI and PH, but now we know exactly what's in his arsenal for him to solve problems for the rest of the New World, in line with what people call a "hard magic system".
Of course, maybe Usopp will have something new next arc, but it's more likely we'll see it foreshadowed and developed, like the Dials before the Kabuto slingshot.
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Impact Wolf is a combination of a Impact Dial and Pop Greens.
There is no way to know that without looking at the wiki or the anime having expanded on it. I don't think the manga ever said anything about it.
And has he even used that technique since Fishman Island? 12 years ago?
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Pop Greens are not "do whatever the plot needs" though.
Dude made a banana boat when they needed a boat. It's also made giant nets and trampolines and giant flytraps and explosives and a moving wolf…
it's whatever the situation needs and he rarely repeats them.
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Dude made a banana boat when they needed a boat. It's also made giant nets and trampolines and giant flytraps and explosives and a moving wolf…
it's whatever the situation needs and he rarely repeats them.
My entire paragraph contextualizes the first line. FI and PH were establishing what Usopp could do, so yes, Usopp was revealing his abilities according to the needs of the situation, but it was mostly low stakes problems. However, we've known what Usopp can do since PH, so it ceased to be "do whatever the plot needs". Everytime Usopp fights, he's still using those same things, like here in Onighashima for example, where he used those bamboo attacks against Page One that he had used in FI, and also the same monster-plant he used in Sabaody.
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If you have to rank Marineford, WCI ,Dressrosa and Wano how will you rank them.
I have seen a lot of criticism on WCI by weekly readres but since I binged read it all at once I reallly enjoyed it except for that wedding cake sceneOn my end, so far I would say Wano > Whole Cake > Dressrosa.
Dressrosa had gigantic potential in the first half with plenty of unknown quantities, until the moment when Kyros beheads "Doflamingo". But then there's this stupid reset with the reconfigured terrain and everyone running around for ages. Not to mention birdcage and the final ten minutes haki recharge. Urrh. The Law/Cora flashback is awesome, and so is the entire Luffy vs Dofy, but it's not enough to make up for the weaknesses of the arc. Rebecca's treatment, the Riku family who aren't very likeable, Fujitora not amounting to much until the very last minute… Many aspects that hurt even when re-reading in one sitting.
Whole Cake comes next. Compared to Dressrosa, the islands are much more interesting visually with all these crazy food places. Big Mom starts off as a formidable antagonist, between her famed information network, the talks of sending heads of relatives in a box, the direct threat that are her many children (Cracker easily held back Gear 4 Luffy, who had previously wiped the floor with Doflamigo - that alone gave me shivers), ... But then a lot of these threats go flat on their own. Sanji's handcuffs come with a free key, Jinbei never turned the death wheel, Big Mom becomes a conveniently-mindless walking disaster. Plus the conclusion really hurts. I like that the Straw Hats barely made it and came within an inch of losing everything, but not how it happened. The cake that amounted to nothing and faked destruction of the Sunny still sting to this day.
Wano has its downs that are gonna stay no matter what (mostly the Scabbards and Orochi getting back on their feet, plus the Nami/Usopp fight), but so far I can't think of anything else that will really hurt badly in the long run. Oden is a silly bugger but he and the Roger flashback grew on me. Tama's part is a bit too convenient and the most memorable Wano people are the dead ones, but that won't be enough to ruin the experience. On the other hand the Yonkou fights are an absolute delight and so is Zoro vs King, then there's Yamato who is awesome by just existing. Plus I love the visuals of Wano as a whole. Not gonna lie though, I too am ready for a change of scenery - before reading this thread I had not realized how long we've been in Kaido's castle, but's it's another aspect I won't mind in a second reading.
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My entire paragraph contextualizes the first line. FI and PH were establishing what Usopp could do, so yes, Usopp was revealing his abilities according to the needs of the situation, but it was mostly low stakes problems. However, we've known what Usopp can do since PH, so it ceased to be "do whatever the plot needs". Everytime Usopp fights, he's still using those same things, like here in Onighashima for example, where he used those bamboo attacks against Page One that he had used in FI, and also the same monster-plant he used in Sabaody.
You have a crystal ball to be so sure of your point ? I'm really not sure Oda will never put another convenient pop green.
And that doesn't change the fact they are not interesting and he doesn't use his former arsenal anymore -
My entire paragraph contextualizes the first line. FI and PH were establishing what Usopp could do, so yes, Usopp was revealing his abilities according to the needs of the situation, but it was mostly low stakes problems. However, we've known what Usopp can do since PH, so it ceased to be "do whatever the plot needs". Everytime Usopp fights, he's still using those same things, like here in Onighashima for example, where he used those bamboo attacks against Page One that he had used in FI, and also the same monster-plant he used in Sabaody.
He's reused some of them a little yes, like goign back to the bamboo shoots, but in this arc alone he introduced a sleeping gas one to use on generic guards, and against Page 1 is the first time we saw the fireworks flowers and the exploding pinecone ones. That's three brand new types this arc alone. And the anime gives him new ones on top of that including a brand new one for episode 1000 that exists only for the one time use to create a cloud that says "1000."
Twelve years later he still a fresh arsenal of brand new ones whenever he needs for whatever purpose.
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You have a crystal ball to be so sure of your point ? I'm really not sure Oda will never put another convenient pop green.
And that doesn't change the fact they are not interesting and he doesn't use his former arsenal anymoreI don't have a crystal ball, but it's a flat line for the last few hundred chapters that Usopp has been recycling the same Pop Greens. While we were still at Dressrosa, I was less sure whether Usopp couldn't just show up with a completely new Pop Green to solve an impossible problem with his established tools, but it hasn't happened, and it became a constant since, so my point stands. It's only hypothetical that Usopp will find a new rabbit in the hat, so this could be said against any character.
Anyway, I'm making only one point to answer one argument, so you don't have to assume beyond that. If you don't find the Pop Greens interesting, I'm not arguing against that. It's definitely not the coolest power. I agree.
Ps: Usopp still use his former arsenal once in a while.
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I don't have a crystal ball, but it's a flat line for the last few hundred chapters that Usopp has been recycling the same Pop Greens. While we were still at Dressrosa, I was less sure whether Usopp couldn't just show up with a completely new Pop Green to solve an impossible problem with his established tools, but it hasn't happened, and it became a constant since, so my point stands. It's only hypothetical that Usopp will find a new rabbit in the hat, so this could be said against any character.
He literally just used two brand new ones on Page 1, and another new one on some guards.
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He's reused some of them a little yes, like goign back to the bamboo shoots, but in this arc alone he introduced a sleeping gas one to use on generic guards, and against Page 1 is the first time we saw the fireworks flowers and the exploding pinecone ones. That's three brand new types this arc alone. And the anime gives him new ones on top of that including a brand new one for episode 1000 that exists only for the one time use to create a cloud that says "1000."
Twelve years later he still a fresh arsenal of brand new ones whenever he needs for whatever purpose.
That's not new. It was used on Punk Hazard. Edit: Wait nvm, he has two different sleeping attacks.
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He's reused some of them a little yes, like goign back to the bamboo shoots, but in this arc alone he introduced a sleeping gas one to use on generic guards, and against Page 1 is the first time we saw the fireworks flowers and the exploding pinecone ones. That's three brand new types this arc alone. And the anime gives him new ones on top of that including a brand new one for episode 1000 that exists only for the one time use to create a cloud that says "1000."
Twelve years later he still a fresh arsenal of brand new ones whenever he needs for whatever purpose.
I don't care about the anime, but you're right that the sleeping gas was a new thing (although a minor use). Glad you mentioned that because I didn't remember. That said, the other ones I see as basic variations of previous techniques, nothing that was new territory for the character. Let's not ignore that SHs (including Usopp) always have new named attacks or even new techniques during fights… what Oda can't break is some relevant limitation out of nowhere (for exemple, suddenly making Usopp fly with flying plants, or the sleeping gas you mentioned, etc).
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He literally just used two brand new ones on Page 1, and another new one on some guards.
I was writing that post before I read your previous answer. Anyway, see above my answer. And ea77 remembered that Usopp had used sleeping gas in PH, although I'm not sure when. If ea77 is right, then my opinion is that Usopp has been constant since PH.
