Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !
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For some reason that didn't really bother me.
Shanks being a great pirate works for me.
It's really a personal thing but I always thought it would be better if Shanks was just a regular pirate that inspired a future legend despite his seemingly low status. And Luffy having great admiration and his biggest promise to someone many consider would consider a fogettable pirate. It makes it more about their philosophy and character rather than of course you were inspired after interacting with a yonko.
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Carefree pirate gives up everything for kid who means nothing versus master planner
That's what I mean about half-empty half-full.
Is Shanks weirdly twirling his mustache, or was Shanks spooked by what he saw in Luffy and said to himself, "I'd give up a limb or more for this kid if he grows up to be something special."
It's not about Shanks for Shanks. It's about self-sacrifice for Luffy to give him a chance to realize his ambition. Given his arm, that point is immutable.
Desa,
Regarding Shanks's role in protecting Luffy, being related to status, during his interactions with Luffy, he wasn't an emperor so that doesn't change anything about their time together.
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Greg is One Piece still insanely popular in Japan like it was?
Someone on YouTube video I watched a long time ago said that One Piece popularity in Japan is like nothing he’s ever seen before, that merch for it was everywhere and that he couldn’t find an American equivalent to something that insanely popular
I don’t remember what video it was unfortunately
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Shanks left Luffy his principles, that above the hat, the fruit and the arm have served Luffy more. Well, maybe not the arm.
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It was always completely clear to me in Chapter 1 that Shanks saved Luffys life because they were friends (meaning he would have done the same for anybody he calls his friend), but that he gave him the hat specifically because he saw something in him, something that convinced him Luffy would one day become a great pirate. I don't see the problem with that something being that Luffy reminded Shanks of his own captain, Gold Roger. It's ok if there was a little more depth to his decision than just giving his beloved hat to any random kid just because he liked him.
I don't really want Luffy to be the chosen one or Shanks to be some kind of master planner who simply manipulated Luffy to achieve his goals (I certainly don't want that!), but I also don't need everything to be absolutely random. That would make it seem as if anybody could have achieved what Luffy has achieved, and I don't like that either. Luffy is special - because of his character, his attitude, his determination, his strong will etc. Shanks recognizing that in Luffy back then and basing his decision on that is cool with me.
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I might be more okay with it being a legendary fruit if it wasn't also a legendary hat.
It really is the sheer number of things piling up that breaks it for me.
But then I've spent a decade hating that it's actually Roger's hat. And three years hating that there's a giant frozen one thats a mega secret.
One legendary maguffin I can write off. But the hat, the fruit, the D, the haki (where we're STILL unclear how much is effort and how much is "born with it") it's just… arrg.
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What did Rocinante say about D's? Something about them being the natural enemy of God? After Kaidou's cryptic words about Luffy's smile or what not it makes me really wonder about Foflamingo's jolly roger. Just a big happy face crossed out. Him being a Celestial Dragon certainly fits with all that.
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It was always completely clear to me in Chapter 1 that Shanks saved Luffys life because they were friends (meaning he would have done the same for anybody he calls his friend), but that he gave him the hat specifically because he saw something in him, something that convinced him Luffy would one day become a great pirate. I don't see the problem with that something being that Luffy reminded Shanks of his own captain, Gold Roger. It's ok if there was a little more depth to his decision than just giving his beloved hat to any random kid just because he liked him.
I don't really want Luffy to be the chosen one or Shanks to be some kind of master planner who simply manipulated Luffy to achieve his goals (I certainly don't want that!), but I also don't need everything to be absolutely random. That would make it seem as if anybody could have achieved what Luffy has achieved, and I don't like that either. Luffy is special - because of his character, his attitude, his determination, his strong will etc. Shanks recognizing that in Luffy back then and basing his decision on that is cool with me.
Agree with your views. Very well written.
I also don't want Shanks to be a great master planner – that is, I believe that some Roger Pirates were left with a duty to help the person who would come to fulfill the Will of D., and Shanks was one of those people (the other two being Crocus and Rayleigh, both at crucial spots of the Grand Line). However, for Shanks to be playing some crazy mind games beyond that would be silly, probably.
When you acknowledge that "Luffy is special", should we go ahead and ask why? I mean, we're aware of what attributes make him special (your description), but we don't know what causes him to be special. How can Luffy have such a limitless will and unbreakable spirit? It is superhuman!! Of course, we could stop at "it is what it is". Nevertheless, we can agree that who Luffy is is also beyond his control, it's simply a fact of his nature alongside his crazy upbringing¹. Once we look at it as, partially, being born with a great spirit/psyche (by chance, or chaos, or genetics), can't this specialness be self-justified by a 'chosen one' perspective? Once he is gifted, does it make a difference if it's chaos or fate? Why can't Luffy be Joy Boy if he's so superhuman? It feels like accepting that Luffy is supernatural, but rejecting a reason for that. It's almost counterintuitive to me.
¹ Btw, this is not a fact against his freewill, since "Man can do what he will but he cannot will what he wills" (Arthur Schopenhauer). Freedom is much more about being able to follow his will against external obstacles, not internal.
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Shanks obviously liked Luffy, before Luffy ate the DF. Which Luffy ate by accident. Maybe Shanks knew something more about the DF then we we're lead to believe? Maybe not? I think the logic that a lot of people give is because he stole that specific DF, therefore he must know it's secrets. But, what if he just raided and robbed a Marine Ship, and it just happened to have that specific DF? We don't even know that for sure yet.
But even if he does know? That doesn't mean he doesn't also care about Luffy.
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This is all hitting pretty quickly, this evil Shanks stuff. Did some theorist put out something?
While I can understand why his actions can be interpreted different ways by different people with different views, Shanks being a manipulator is way different from Shanks betting his own life on giving a kid that doesn't have a chance, a chance.
I won't argue intent of the author because that's completely up to interpretation, but equating self-sacrifice for someone else's betterment with manipulation means that any kind act is manipulation. That's why I'm suggesting half-empty/half-full. It's suggesting that no act of kindness or self-sacrifice for the sake of another can be for anything other than the benefit of the gifter.
I can't invalidate it as a view, but, is that really why some people think Shanks did what he did? To manipulate thereby benefiting himself? That's pretty grim.
The fruit doesn't matter.
The name doesn't matter.
It's what Luffy said, that Roger also said, that matters.
That combined with the determination he saw in Luffy is why he bet his life on him.
And the hat? It's Roger's hat. Why not let anything 'important' about it be attributed to how it wound up in Roger's hands. We know how it passed to Luffy and that was a perfectly natural and meaningful exchange. Before calling foul on it, maybe we should see how/why Roger had it in the first place.
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The fruit doesn't matter.
I think it could matter since Shanks stole it for good reason.
We never heard throughout the story of One Piece of another such deed (pirates deliberately stealing a heavily guarded DF from the WG) and we could assume that Shanks knew the importance of this fruit. After Luffy ate it, he concluded that there is no way back from it and can only support Luffy in his quest to become Pirate King.Luffy vs Katakuri Full fight: https://www.docdroid.net/qrFOY9p/luffyxkata.pdf
Luffy vs Cracker Full fight : https://www.docdroid.net/Pk06JZL/luffy-vs-cracker.pdf
Luffy vs Doflamingo Full fight : https://www.docdroid.net/VDl3Ctf/luffyxdoffy.pdf
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Fruit doesn't matter.
Whatever purpose it was stolen for (assuming it was) ((it probably was)) Luffy effed it all up.
Still doesn't matter that he ate it. What he did with it matters…now. Not when he was a kid.
I think that might be what's influencing a subset of this notion.
That once Luffy ate the fruit, he became special.
What made Luffy special, is that without any outside influence, his bold desire was to do exactly what Roger wanted to do. And not only that, for a little squirt, he had the conviction to carry it out.
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I fully believe that Shanks befriended Luffy and lost his arm to help a friend in need and gave the hat to show his believe in Luffy and to take a gamble on "the new generation". What I also believe is that it is no coincidence that Shanks was there, on that island, at that moment, with that fruit. An insignificant island in the East Blue, where, shortly after Shanks would leave, the son of his dead captain would arrive.
It's all a bit too coincidental. Also, the relationship between Shanks, the world government and the marines are quite suspecious.
Remember, remember, the 5th of November
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This is all hitting pretty quickly, this evil Shanks stuff. Did some theorist put out something?
While I can understand why his actions can be interpreted different ways by different people with different views, Shanks being a manipulator is way different from Shanks betting his own life on giving a kid that doesn't have a chance, a chance.
I won't argue intent of the author because that's completely up to interpretation, but equating self-sacrifice for someone else's betterment with manipulation means that any kind act is manipulation. That's why I'm suggesting half-empty/half-full. It's suggesting that no act of kindness or self-sacrifice for the sake of another can be for anything other than the benefit of the gifter.
I can't invalidate it as a view, but, is that really why some people think Shanks did what he did? To manipulate thereby benefiting himself? That's pretty grim.
The fruit doesn't matter.
The name doesn't matter.
It's what Luffy said, that Roger also said, that matters.
That combined with the determination he saw in Luffy is why he bet his life on him.
And the hat? It's Roger's hat. Why not let anything 'important' about it be attributed to how it wound up in Roger's hands. We know how it passed to Luffy and that was a perfectly natural and meaningful exchange. Before calling foul on it, maybe we should see how/why Roger had it in the first place.
The evil Shanks theory has been around for a little while. But really came into the forefront whenever he met with the 5 Elder Stars. I personally don't believe it. I just think Shanks has shouldered the weight of a lot stuff, for a long time.
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I fully believe that Shanks befriended Luffy and lost his arm to help a friend in need and gave the hat to show his believe in Luffy and to take a gamble on "the new generation". What I also believe is that it is no coincidence that Shanks was there, on that island, at that moment, with that fruit. An insignificant island in the East Blue, where, shortly after Shanks would leave, the son of his dead captain would arrive.
It's all a bit too coincidental. Also, the relationship between Shanks, the world government and the marines are quite suspecious.
Canonically Ace was there in the island long before Shanks came. Garp brought toddler Ace to Dadan
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This is all hitting pretty quickly, this evil Shanks stuff. Did some theorist put out something?
While I can understand why his actions can be interpreted different ways by different people with different views, Shanks being a manipulator is way different from Shanks betting his own life on giving a kid that doesn't have a chance, a chance.
I won't argue intent of the author because that's completely up to interpretation, but equating self-sacrifice for someone else's betterment with manipulation means that any kind act is manipulation. That's why I'm suggesting half-empty/half-full. It's suggesting that no act of kindness or self-sacrifice for the sake of another can be for anything other than the benefit of the gifter.
I can't invalidate it as a view, but, is that really why some people think Shanks did what he did? To manipulate thereby benefiting himself? That's pretty grim.
The fruit doesn't matter.
The name doesn't matter.
It's what Luffy said, that Roger also said, that matters.
That combined with the determination he saw in Luffy is why he bet his life on him.
And the hat? It's Roger's hat. Why not let anything 'important' about it be attributed to how it wound up in Roger's hands. We know how it passed to Luffy and that was a perfectly natural and meaningful exchange. Before calling foul on it, maybe we should see how/why Roger had it in the first place.
I don't like the Shanks being evil theory at all. But I would really like a conflict between Luffy and Shanks in terms of how they perceive how the world works: Luffy embodying Dream/Freedom vs. Shanks embodying Destiny. Chaos vs. Order.
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Canonically Ace was there in the island long before Shanks came. Garp brought toddler Ace to Dadan
Shanks could've very well be aware of who Ace was and that he was on that island. Maybe the Gomu Gomu was stolen to give to Ace in the future but Luffy messed up things
Luffy vs Katakuri Full fight: https://www.docdroid.net/qrFOY9p/luffyxkata.pdf
Luffy vs Cracker Full fight : https://www.docdroid.net/Pk06JZL/luffy-vs-cracker.pdf
Luffy vs Doflamingo Full fight : https://www.docdroid.net/VDl3Ctf/luffyxdoffy.pdf
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It was always completely clear to me in Chapter 1 that Shanks saved Luffys life because they were friends (meaning he would have done the same for anybody he calls his friend)
I accept this. But here is my line of reasoning for why i feel this alters things. And please note that this is all stamping off from what i consider likely assumptions. There is a time stamped prophecy that has a limited window when it can work, Shanks knows (probably thru Roger) about a legendary devil fruit that is seemingly neccesary and goes out of his way to get it. Goes to east blue with a potential purpose of feeding it to Rogers kid based on him having what is need to make Rogers will happen and to save the world. Luff eats it, maybe he didn't plan for it but now a neccesary component is in the kids stomach and the only way forward would be to kill him and retrieve the DF or take a chance that this propehecy age appropriate boy can have chosen haki, will of D, find someone who can read a dead language and manage to do so within the time that is alloted for the prophecy. And then he gives him this hat that has some relation with what seems to be building up to be the evil god of the OP universe and sends him on his way. My thing isn't Shanks is evil, it is Shanks being elwood blues on a mission from god completely changes how i read his stay in east blue, it makes it seem utilitarian rather than for funsies because pirates do what thet want. He's there for a dedicated work weekend rather than R&R with occasional pirating
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Well, personally I think that phrase is rather whimsical and even unique. Besides, in a way, Luffy's dreams are similar to a lot of villains' dreams, except theirs are usually deformed and evil. For example, you mentioned Buggy, and he loved parties indeed, but at the cost of the civilians of Orange Town. On the other hand, Luffy wants to party with everybody – the ideal version. And I don't think we should look at it only by the lens of "could someone else possibly have said that too?". This is a story, so the point is for it to highlight its themes and I believe that's the goal Oda envisioned.
While there are a lot of villains out there, there surely are other good guys like Luffy who want to become Pirate King. And throwing a huge party when finding a great treasure is as pirate-ish as it gets not only in One Piece but in literally every pirate. That's too generic for Shanks to make the connection to Roger a big deal.
And yes, Roger never said he wanted to be Pirate King – it was the newspapers that named him like that after reaching Laugh Tale. That's why I don't think the actual phrase actually includes the desire to be Pirate King. Separate things.
Fair enough.
For some reason this site doesn't let me annex images from certain adresses, so I'll just leave a link where you can see the pages: https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/ibn5ug/what_did_luffy_and_roger_say/
I finally managed to open the page but I couldn't find the part where Roger entrusted those words to Shanks. So I had to look through the manga myself. And there it is, in chapter 968, the very first panel of the chapter. And it says that it happened right after Roger came back from Laugh Tale. So nope, it didn't happen before going to Laugh Tale.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
I accept this. But here is my line of reasoning for why i feel this alters things. And please note that this is all stamping off from what i consider likely assumptions. There is a time stamped prophecy that has a limited window when it can work, Shanks knows (probably thru Roger) about a legendary devil fruit that is seemingly neccesary and goes out of his way to get it. Goes to east blue with a potential purpose of feeding it to Rogers kid based on him having what is need to make Rogers will happen and to save the world. Luff eats it, maybe he didn't plan for it but now a neccesary component is in the kids stomach and the only way forward would be to kill him and retrieve the DF or take a chance that this propehecy age appropriate boy can have chosen haki, will of D, find someone who can read a dead language and manage to do so within the time that is alloted for the prophecy. And then he gives him this hat that has some relation with what seems to be building up to be the evil god of the OP universe and sends him on his way. My thing isn't Shanks is evil, it is Shanks being elwood blues on a mission from god completely changes how i read his stay in east blue, it makes it seem utilitarian rather than for funsies because pirates do what thet want. He's there for a dedicated work weekend rather than R&R with occasional pirating
As you said that's a lot of assumptions we all are making here. So far there's been no indicator that neither Shanks nor Roger for that matter knew anything about a legendary fruit. It's completely an Five Elder Stars thing so far. But with everything we know so far it's definitely a valid connection to make. I would actually also like to add one more thing to everything you listed: Why was the Devil Fruit taken to the bar to begin with? Don't pirates usually keep their loot well guarded on their ship? They surely weren't parading the DF around in the bar if that was their goal.
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I mean, the carefree pirate idealistic figure he embodied back in chapter 1 that in itself inspired Luffy feels at odds with the grey eminence of world politics deal he seems to be carrying on full time these days, for at the very least the least couple years in story. I'm not saying he's evil, i don't think he is, but i'm wondering how much we think we know about him is a facade and what is his actual self.
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Seeing Shanks' relationship with Rayleigh and Luffy's relationship with Rayleigh I'd guess that the friendship between Luffy and Shanks is genuine. I don't think him to be some evil puppet master overlord. If he was, he could've done much more to help his plans along the way he'd want them to play out. He took a bet on the new generation and also let this "new hope for the future" do his own thing. Except for Shanks giving Luffy his hat, Shanks has not meddled in Luffy's pirating at all save for Marineford but Marineford was hardly the first time Luffy could've died. I hardly think we should be expecting some Dr. Gero "I've been following you with tiny robots for the last x years to calculate your progress" kind of weridness. In the end, whatever happens, it will still be Luffy that will make his decision on what'll happen and like Rayleigh said: "you might come to a different conclusion than we did". Not at any time, however, was it shown that Shanks has had any interest in trying to change who Luffy is. Hell, he liked Luffy enough for whom he was that he gave his precious hat to him.
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While people- and thus Shanks- can obviously form attachments to others because they remind them of things/people, it doesn't have to be as literal as "wow, this snot nosed kid has the same dream as my dead boss, the most important person in the world, who never got to finish his dream!"Plus it kinda makes Luffy less special if what Shanks saw in him is…him being exactly like someone else. And chapter 1 is all about how Luffy learns from Shanks, is inspired by Shanks, wants to emulate Shanks - the only perspective Shanks gives related to Luffy is a musing that Shanks himself once was a reckless youth. Thats it. You don't get a sense that Shanks' ball-busting or protective treatment of Luffy is informed by anything but Shanks liking Luffy for being Luffy. Later adding in that the relationship is informed by Luffy channeling highly specific traits of the most important person in the world whom left his work unfinished and who happens to be Shanks dead boss makes things seem more circular and predetermined rather than if Luffy was just an ambitious kid who rose to Roger level greatness after being inspired by a cool veteran.
Idunno, it feels s like if an up and coming soccer player got touted as the "New Messi", and when asked what inspired him to become a soccer player goes "well as a kid I was friends with Messis old teammate who'd taken a shine to me due to acting like Messi in a highly specific way, whereupon he gifted me Messis old sneakers" and it feels more like a literal second coming of Messi as partially facilitated by someone with a Messi connection, rather than a spiritual sucessor inspired by an unrelated thing. And thats even before all the 20 -years later joyboy raftel prophecy stuff.When I first read chapter 1 Shanks wasn't a Roger pirate nor a top-tier one, there was no suggestion that Luffy had said some specific and highly unique catchphrase to earn Shanks affection, nor that the hat or DF had hidden, elaborate significance either to Shanks or in general. And rereading the chapter, I still can't see any signs of such hidden factors in Shanks and Luffys relationship, much as it still comes across as Shanks scaring off the mean eel by growling a threat and giving it a super mean stare rather than Shanks using a secret ambition-spirit blast of the Chosen Few that makes weakwilled creatures faint (except not in this case).
Chapter 1 worked on its face without all the info we would get years (and years and years) down the line, it doesn't feel like theres any "puzzle pieces" missing when you read it. And adding in more puzzle pieces later can't help but risk warping the picture.
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I don't think Oda is going to taint Luffy's and Shanks' relationship. Just cannot see him doing that. I guess for some of you guys it even taints their relationship if Shanks had any sort of ulterior motive to even be on that island, but I Honestly can't see what is so bad about that. Shanks and his crew sure like to party, and they clearly spend a lot of their time there just hanging around in the bar and enjoying life. But it still always struck me as weird that this pirate group was just randomly chilling in East Blue for a whole year. I mean, even long before we discovered Shanks was one of the Yonkou, it was already clear that he was not just some random, average guy, but a badass and great pirate - he freaking scared a sea monster away just by looking at it! And we discovered very early in the manga that he was a rival of Mihawk, who was the strongest person we had met at that point. Claiming that back then, "Shanks wasn't a Roger pirate nor a top-tier one", like Daz said, is simply ignoring the facts. Shanks was never depicted as just some random, average pirate, not even in chapter 1. Was anybody shocked when Shanks was revealed to be a former member of the Roger pirates? Or that when the Yonkou were first mentioned in the story, we discovered that Shanks was one of them? No, not really. It was more a moment of "Yeah, that makes sense."
@Daz:
Plus it kinda makes Luffy less special if what Shanks saw in him is…him being exactly like someone else
Luffy isn't exactly like Roger. We've seen Roger now in full detail. He had his own adventures, his own crew, his own personality traits that differ from Luffy's. They are different people. But they also share certain traits, and that is also something that had long, long been established in the story, nack in East Blue, when Luffy smiling on the execution platform shocked Smoker because it directly reminded him of Roger doing the same. Why did nobody ever have a problem with Luffy reminding Smoker of Roger like that, but at the same time, it's a problem if Luffy reminded Shanks of Roger, too?
I guess that's what I don't understand. I get the worries about Luffy being the Chosen One and Shanks secretly being some kind of master planner manipulating everything behind the scenes, but some of you seem to now be upset about stuff that were literally established in the beginning of the story. And that's just a little weird to me.
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Luffy isn't exactly like Roger. We've seen Roger now in full detail. He had his own adventures, his own crew, his own personality traits that differ from Luffy's. They are different people. But they also share certain traits, and that is also something that had long, long been established in the story, nack in East Blue, when Luffy smiling on the execution platform shocked Smoker because it directly reminded him of Roger doing the same. Why did nobody ever have a problem with Luffy reminding Smoker of Roger like that, but at the same time, it's a problem if Luffy reminded Shanks of Roger, too?
That's not what Daz meant though. The like Roger part refers to Shanks telling Rayleigh, that he met a boy who said "the exact same words captain said". Shanks made it seem like a big deal. So of course readers will make a big deal out of it. Luffy isn't like Roger 100%. But he's pretty much very close to him in a manner that Shanks finds it important to inform his former vice captain and Rogers partner about this connection.
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While there are a lot of villains out there, there surely are other good guys like Luffy who want to become Pirate King. And throwing a huge party when finding a great treasure is as pirate-ish as it gets not only in One Piece but in literally every pirate. That's too generic for Shanks to make the connection to Roger a big deal.
But it's not just a normal party at the end of a campaign. It's the biggest party ever, a world party. And, like, it's not just a bureaucracy after accomplishing a goal – but the party being the Dream itself, the end goal of the character, which already frames it differently. Which pirate thinks like that? Well... Luffy and Roger.
I finally managed to open the page but I couldn't find the part where Roger entrusted those words to Shanks. So I had to look through the manga myself. And there it is, in chapter 968, the very first panel of the chapter. And it says that it happened right after Roger came back from Laugh Tale. So nope, it didn't happen before going to Laugh Tale.
I think you're reading the situation in a different way than most people in the community. You think that scene where Roger talks to Shanks is what Roger said that Shanks that Shanks also heard Luffy saying. I think it's not.
You could be right, though… But bear in mind that Luffy's omitted dream at 585 is exactly the same as Roger's omitted dream at 966 – the scenes are equal. And then, in chapter 1000, Yamato makes reference to these two scenes as the thing. It is that.
Obviously, Shanks was not there in any of those two scenes, but we infer that Luffy/Roger said those words in other occasions too.
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But it's not just a normal party at the end of a campaign. It's the biggest party ever, a world party. And, like, it's not just a bureaucracy after accomplishing a goal – but the party being the Dream itself, the end goal of the character, which already frames it differently. Which pirate thinks like that? Well... Luffy and Roger.
That's a very vague statement if we're honest. Like how big is the biggest party? How many people have to join it to be count as the biggest? Also does it take place at one location or at several places over the world. And I don't really need a clear number. I'm just saying that it's so super vague that a moniker like "the biggest party ever" will mean something different to each person.
I think you're reading the situation in a different way than most people in the community. You think that scene where Roger talks to Shanks is what Roger said that Shanks that Shanks also heard Luffy saying. I think it's not.
How can you say that this is wrong? We have zero clue what was said there. Only that Roger said something to Shanks what we don't know yet. If it's not the only time Roger said something to Shanks it at least has to be a valid contender for what was said.
You could be right, though… But bear in mind that Luffy's omitted dream at 585 is exactly the same as Roger's omitted dream at 966 – the scenes are equal. And then, in chapter 1000, Yamato makes reference to these two scenes as the thing. It is that.
Also could you please tell me what scene and panel you are referring to in chapter 966? Because I seem to gloss over it each time I check it.
Obviously, Shanks was not there in any of those two scenes, but we infer that Luffy/Roger said those words in other occasions too.
Wait, do I understand you correctly that you're actually talking about something that Roger said in absence of Shanks? Would at least explain why I couldn't find anything in chapter 966. Could you please elaborate on that?
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It's literally in the four pages shown in that reddit link, above. Look again.
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Ok, I had to reread again. Now I finally see what you guys are talking about. Didn't even remember that part of the manga. Thanks for clearing that up. I stand corrected then.
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Seems to be a really important part of the story, I can't wait for the final reveal, but something tells me it won't be until the final chapter or so.
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That's a very vague statement if we're honest. Like how big is the biggest party? How many people have to join it to be count as the biggest? Also does it take place at one location or at several places over the world. And I don't really need a clear number. I'm just saying that it's so super vague that a moniker like "the biggest party ever" will mean something different to each person.
Imagine the whole world. People from East Blue, Little Garden, Drum, Alabasta, Skypiea, Water 7, Fishmen Island, Dressrosa, Zou, WCI, Wano… and other countries. That's a big party...
Obviously, Luffy was not thinking about these people. It was just a ridiculous dream like "I'll do the most impossible adventure in the world and when I'm at the top of the world I'll throw a party so big that the entire world will take a part in it". And then we see Ace/Sabo and Newgate/Oden perplexed by something so bizarre.
How can you say that this is wrong? We have zero clue what was said there. Only that Roger said something to Shanks what we don't know yet. If it's not the only time Roger said something to Shanks it at least has to be a valid contender for what was said.
Context and tone. Roger was saying something to Shanks while Shanks was crying – and that doesn't match everything that chapters 585, 966 and 1000 point towards. It's something happy, ridiculous and upbeat.
What Roger told Shanks there was something more personal between the two, and arguably sad given the circunstances (the end of the journey, the separation of the Roger Pirates, Roger dying...).
Also could you please tell me what scene and panel you are referring to in chapter 966? Because I seem to gloss over it each time I check it. Wait, do I understand you correctly that you're actually talking about something that Roger said in absence of Shanks? Would at least explain why I couldn't find anything in chapter 966. Could you please elaborate on that?
I've tried to post the images here and they don't show up. I'm afraid I can't help much, but Roger says something that is omitted that both Newgate and Oden react to – Newgate laughs and Oden is perplexed. The same is the same as 585 with Luffy, Ace and Sabo.
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The very fact that Luffy randomly ate the DF, can't make it a "Chosen One" the thing. Was Oda a Lost fan? One of the best lines in the series is, "Don't mistake coincidence for fate,"
Great line. I think it's from Eko?
In any case, LOST might help us navigate through this apparent fate/free-will tension in One Piece. LOST has shown us that they are not polar opposites. When Desmond is convinced that the good guys have already won in the series finale (due to seeing the other world), Jack reminds him that it is our choices that make our paths, and the path of the world. In other words, if things are written, one must always question who actually writes them in fine. It is Luffy's actions that made him who he is, that will never change. There isn't an instant in the story where he wasn't responsible for his actions.
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Imagine the whole world. People from East Blue, Little Garden, Drum, Alabasta, Skypiea, Water 7, Fishmen Island, Dressrosa, Zou, WCI, Wano… and other countries. That's a big party...
Obviously, Luffy was not thinking about these people. It was just a ridiculous dream like "I'll do the most impossible adventure in the world and when I'm at the top of the world I'll throw a party so big that the entire world will take a part in it". And then we see Ace/Sabo and Newgate/Oden perplexed by something so bizarre.
While I still think that the party thing is far too generic, I do agree that it has to be something lighthearded a child could say. The party just has too much of a widespread to feel to it for it to be something special only Roger and Luffy would say. Something more ridiculous "I'll be so big, I'll make name's gonna echo up to the moon" or something of that sort.
Context and tone. Roger was saying something to Shanks while Shanks was crying – and that doesn't match everything that chapters 585, 966 and 1000 point towards. It's something happy, ridiculous and upbeat.
What Roger told Shanks there was something more personal between the two, and arguably sad given the circunstances (the end of the journey, the separation of the Roger Pirates, Roger dying...).
Gotcha. Then how about this words then?
FAME!
I'm gonna live forever
I'm gonna learn how to fly
HIGH
I feel it comming together
People will see me and cryFAME!
I'm gonna make it to heaven
Light up the sky like a flame
FAME!
I'm gonna live forever
Baby remember my name(Remember, remember, remember, remember)
(Remember, remember, remember, remember)I know I would cry if my soon to die mentor would tell me that this is how he's going to leave the grand stage of the world. Also ties in with the "oh, I ain't gonna die partner" words he said to Rayleigh. It has the perfect balance of being deeply profound and ridiculous as if a little child could shout it out as if it was a famous song of some sorts. :ninja:
I've tried to post the images here and they don't show up. I'm afraid I can't help much, but Roger says something that is omitted that both Newgate and Oden react to – Newgate laughs and Oden is perplexed. The same is the same as 585 with Luffy, Ace and Sabo.
Don't sweat it mate. As statement in my last post above, I finally get what you were talking about. Definitely see your point now. Hence why I was mostly joking in this post.
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…
Hahaha!
I think other ideas fit the description too, definitely. The 'biggest party' thing just feels the most thematic to me.
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And three years hating that there's a giant frozen one thats a mega secret.
A guy on Reddit said that maybe Imu has a device that identifies the new Joy Boy and "communicates" visually a hint on who that is, so that he can eliminate it. I have been using this theory to cope about the giant frozen straw hat, so… if it helps...
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But then I've spent a decade hating that it's actually Roger's hat. And three years hating that there's a giant frozen one thats a mega secret.
Fun thing is that before Garp got introduced I always thought that Shanks got the hat from Luffy's grandpa. The one we saw in Romance Dawn 2. I just thought that it'd be a nice way for Oda to pay tribute to both people who gave Luffy the hat before Romance Dawn 3 aka the first chapter of the OP serialization. But then grandpa actually made it into the real manga and it turns out he's a Marine in this incarnation. So I ditched that thought. So finding out that Shanks got it from Roger didn't bother me much because of the idea I had. But I understand why you don't like it.
Hahaha!
I think other ideas fit the description too, definitely. The 'biggest party' thing just feels the most thematic to me.
It surely is thematic. A bit too thematic for my taste but a possibility none the less.
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Regarding Luffy's hat, I don't think it neccessarily is something special. Remember in Fishman Island, how after Luffy saved it all the kids wanted 'hero' hats that looked like his? I think that's what Luffy's hat is but for someone else. Someone big in the void century (maybe the original JoyBoy) had a Straw Hat and his followers made their own, much smaller hats.
Maybe everyone in the D clan had a Straw Hat but the Gol family were the only ones who managed to keep theirs for 800 years. The fact its ended up with Luffy now is more a coincidence than anything, but I don't think Luffy's specific hat is anything special (other than to him personally).
The fact that Luffy is a D and has this super powerful Haki I also don't think is indective of a chosen one status, especially the latter part as it still seems like the emperors have better Haki than Luffy. And plenty of people have conquerors (even Kid and Hancock have it).
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"It's just a hat. I like big hats. Here's a big top hat. And over here is my giant wizard hat. btw eliminate Vivi"
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Enjoy your week. I'm out for now.
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Holy shit. 1044 is going to be crazy.
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I can't believe Luffy was really Trebol in disguise all along
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I bet we won't see Luffy at all in 1044 and he will only appear at the end of 1045 to close the volume. Meanwhile Zunisha will give us another two-liner and we will fap over it.:ninja:
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Hey guys ,I am a big OP fan myself ,I have been weekly reader since chapter 975.I was wondering how do long time veterans feel about Wano arc or like current situation in general.For me the current strectch of chapters are really nice but this arc suffers from lowest lows I can imagine this series had mixed with some of the highest high .Like the fakout death is max Tama plotline and many running chapters.But then we have some amazing fight ,lore,and we getting yonkos era to be over.So how do you all feel about it.And say how does it stack up to WCI or Dresrossa arc
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I mean the pacing is wonky, the fights are all over the place, there's a ton of missed potential going on, the villains need fleshing out, Straw Hats don't get consistent focus and sometimes feel like guests in a Wano manga, the art is claustrophobic, there's way too many unnecessary reaction panels, and I've gotten burnt out a couple times now (first time in the prison, second time later in the raid).
That said it fixes some things Dressrosa did poorly. Dressrosa felt really disjointed all around. Wano's story structure has been more clear, flashbacks are largely consolidated into a larger flashback (that unexpectedly went into Roger and Whitebeard lore, making it feel more relevant), the local stuff is fitting into the larger worldbuilding very meaningfully, the various factions intermingling is more natural, the secondary characters have their motives and actions better executed, and the stakes feel more impactful. That said, Dressrosa has better local flavor, the civilians aren't awful, and the Doffy family was more entertaining. Those aren't as big as deals though.
Whole Cake is different and is just better in most ways compared to Dressrosa and Wano. Charlottes and BMP were good villains and it officially salvaged Sanji's character for me. He went from my original fav SH to worst back to one of my favs. I didn't think it was possible. I think Wano continued his character arc nicely (although this forum won't have it, tsk).
And overall I just like how the story has progressed to such a larger scale. Lots of decades long mysteries are coming together, payoff is right around the corner. Luffy is rising to the TOPPEST top. I know people don't like that the focus isn't as strong on the SHs anymore, but I doubt Oda planned 25+ years worth of story for each individual crewmate to tell. I enjoy it now as viewing the soon-to-be pirate king's crew's journey, like how we saw a glimpse of Roger's journey in the flashback. One day the SHs will be the ones to reach Laugh Tale and I'm more excited than ever for it.
(Enies Lobby baby btw)
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Hey guys ,I am a big OP fan myself ,I have been weekly reader since chapter 975.I was wondering how do long time veterans feel about Wano arc or like current situation in general.For me the current strectch of chapters are really nice but this arc suffers from lowest lows I can imagine this series had mixed with some of the highest high .Like the fakout death is max Tama plotline and many running chapters.But then we have some amazing fight ,lore,and we getting yonkos era to be over.So how do you all feel about it.And say how does it stack up to WCI or Dresrossa arc
I've been week to week since around the timeskip and one of the biggest things I've seen in fan communities over the years is people always having a hard time with the first arc they read after they catch up. The whiplash of going from having 19,000 pages to read at whatever pace suits you to getting just 17 and having to wait a week hurts big time. And on top of that, you end up overthinking the low points - it's easy to skim over something you don't like and focus on the good stuff in an archive binge, but when the latest chapter ends on something you're not into there's nothing to do but stew on it until something else happens. Not to say there are no valid critiques of Wano, but freshly caught up readers have been calling literally every arc since the timeskip the worst one so far. If you'd asked right at the end of Dressrosa how other arcs stacked up to it, the community consensus would have been that it was bloated, slow, everything wrong with post-timeskip One Piece, and so on and so forth. Now people who got to binge through Dressrosa hold it up as the standard to compare to. Give it a year or two, and Elbaf will be having the lowest lows of the series while Wano is looked back on fondly.
For me, personally, I've been having a great time most weeks, but I'd definitely say the Onigashima battle is starting feel like it'll never end. I'm ready to see plot threads wrap up and move onto the next thing. We've spent two freaking years in one location. I know the interior of the Skull Dome as well as my own neighbourhood, we've been around it so many times. I want new places. I want the big lore dump and the outside world update instead of the fragments we've been getting between blows. I don't think the things that are happening are bad, but they've been happening for so long. On the other hand, the rooftop fights alone (from the Scabbards to the Supernovas to the 1v1) are going to go down as all-time highlights for the series, worth all the time and trouble it took to set them up.
I think when I look back at Wano and can read it leisurely over the course of a week or two instead of over four years, it's going to hold up as something really special. I remember feeling the same fatigue as the final setpieces of Whole Cake Island and Dressrosa carried on, only to find I liked them a lot more on reread.
In summary, it's been fun, but it's been exhausting, but it'll almost certainly be better when read in volumes instead of weekly, like most parts of this story have been.
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Fruit doesn't matter.
Whatever purpose it was stolen for (assuming it was) ((it probably was)) Luffy effed it all up.
Still doesn't matter that he ate it. What he did with it matters…now. Not when he was a kid.
I think that might be what's influencing a subset of this notion.
That once Luffy ate the fruit, he became special.
What made Luffy special, is that without any outside influence, his bold desire was to do exactly what Roger wanted to do. And not only that, for a little squirt, he had the conviction to carry it out.
I think me and several others are in agreement, he couldn’t be joyboy without the fruit, and once he ate it his work ethic / attitude made him becoming the pirate king almost inevitable. Him being the reincarnation of joyboy, or being possessed by him is a lot more controversial and idea because it makes it look like no matter what ot would have happened, even if he didn’t become a pirate at all
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Enjoy your week. I'm out for now.
Seems like next chapter will literally leak from everywhere.
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@Scabbard:
Seems like next chapter will literally leak from everywhere.
I'm surprised it already hasn't leaked. Because it's weird with these break chapters. Sometimes the scans will be out for like a week and a half before the official one drops.
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Hey guys ,I am a big OP fan myself ,I have been weekly reader since chapter 975.I was wondering how do long time veterans feel about Wano arc or like current situation in general.For me the current strectch of chapters are really nice but this arc suffers from lowest lows I can imagine this series had mixed with some of the highest high .Like the fakout death is max Tama plotline and many running chapters.But then we have some amazing fight ,lore,and we getting yonkos era to be over.So how do you all feel about it.And say how does it stack up to WCI or Dresrossa arc
I've been caught up for water 7. I joined this forum 15 years ago!
For everyone that binges the series, the most recent current arc, the first one they read in real time, is ALWAYS the worst one. And then its fine on rereads.
Wano has gone way too long but it hasn't truly hit any lowly lows… you've just had more time to stew on them and see other people discussing them. And its usually the negative stuff that draws more attention and focus than the positives.
Water 7 was unbearably slow and bloated and too long when that happened, and everyone was disappointed that Usopp didn't really get a moment to shine, and that was 15 years ago, but its perfectly fine on rereads, and the very next arc his got his stuff against Perona. Same for Thriller Bark, Impel Down, the War, Fishman Island, Punk hazard Dresserossa, Cakeland... they were all disappointing and bloated and wasting too much time on X and not enough time on Y and were the worst arc ever while they were happening. basically the only arcs that DON'T fall victim are the extremely short ones. Your Saobondys, Amazon Lilly and Zous. Where they're only like 10 chapters and there's just no time to get tired and its all discovery and new stuff.
It's a normal part of the process, its not anything new. It's not the manga that's changed, its your experience reading it that's changed.
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I'm surprised it already hasn't leaked. Because it's weird with these break chapters. Sometimes the scans will be out for like a week and a half before the official one drops.
It depends on the type of break, as not all breaks are the same.
If it's an Oda break, Shonen Jump's released as normal, it's just without a new chapter. You can't leak it early because the chapter isn't available for people to leak it. Spoiler providers need to wait for the right magazine to be distributed.
If it's a Jump break, then the entire Shonen Jump skips a week, usually due to some holiday (like Golden Week in may or Christmas/New Year). This alters the entire distribution schedule of the magazine. It comes out early in the distribution chain, but is meant to be released later. So, spoiler providers can get their hands on it earlier.
It's weird that they are talking about spoilers so early right now, since technically the magazine with the chapter isn't being distributed yet (AFAIK). It feels like they are hyping it based on this week's Jump's advertisement for next issue.
