Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

Captain M

Even though I just said on the last page that we know next to nothing about what Awakening is and there's a good chance it works different from how most people are assuming, I agree that a consistent through line would be nice.

Otherwise, where do we draw the line for what is and isn't Awakening? Lots of characters have used developed their fruit enough to use abilities that could feasibly be described as "the next level." Look at Robin. If you took her basic powers and wondered what an "advanced stage" of them were, you might come up with answers like changing the size of the limbs she blooms, making a whole duplicate body, or creating things out of the air instead of on a surface. But those are all things she seems to have just worked out on her own through training and discipline. Where could Awakening even go from what she does now?

There's a part of me that wouldn't be shocked if after we get a better explanation a lot of powers become retroactively considered Awakened, just like all the things from the first half of the series that might be Haki now that we know most of what that is.

Jabra

I agree that Paramecia Awakening feels redundant so far, but I believe that's because Oda was forced to demonstrate it on Doflamingo first. He just happened to be the current villain on the table and the concept had to be introduced before we're officially moving to the endgame, where almost everyone will be a top tier fruit user.

So while the concept sounds boring with Strings and a little bit redundant with Mochi, I'm sure Oda had Luffy's application in mind when he came up with it. The Rubber Awakening is where we will see the creative use, and Oda will likely retrofit some of the older abilities as well.
Like, Magellan's Hell's Judgement screams Awakening to me, and here we're not talking about a lame "everything around me is poison now". No, the poison suddenly behaves like a virus, spreading uncontrolled through inorganic matter as if it were alive. It awakened, cool visual included.

That's the level of creativity I expect going forward.

Deicide

@Ivotas:

While Crocodile is by far my favorite character in this series I will have to say that I think my boy definitely didn't have an awakened DF back in Arabasta (or even at Marineford). Nothing he showed back hen indicated that his control of a logia abilitiy is tge same level as Aokiji, who could freeze the sea further than the eye can see. If anything, he clearly stated with his own words where his limits are. He told Luffy that he couldn't stop the sandstorm anymore even if he wanted because that was not within his ability anymore. I would expect an awakened logia to be able to pull something like this off. Especially if you consider that it was a comparably small attack if you look at the magnitude of disasters characters can unleash nowadays.

Also I think it makes more sense for him (and other characters like Enel) not to have it because once he gets reintroduced to the story aquiring awakening (and perhaps Haki) would make it more believable that he's powered up enough to stay relevant as a fighter (even though we know he's not gping to win any fights).

I’ll offer you an alternative reason why Croc felt so underpowered compared to later logia, instead.

He was just out of shape. After spending over a decade in the early section of Paradise, away from haki users, fighting newbie pirates unprepared for the Grand Line, he grew overconfident and complacent. Without noticing, he just wasn’t honing his skills anymore. He was far bellow his prime when he faced Luffy (and yet bit Luffy almost three times, to his credit). His defeat was so humiliating he wasn’t even willing to escape prison (in the BW cover story) and resigned to his fate in Impel Down.

But then Marineford happened and he had a chance to match against top opponents again. That’s the moment he realised how far he had fallen, so he decided to return to the New World and get back into shape.

So, Crocodile had an awakened power, but his skills, reflexes and strength were dulled. When he appears again, he will have regained some of his prime strength.

Ivotas

@Deicide:

I’ll offer you an alternative reason why Croc felt so underpowered compared to later logia, instead.

He was just out of shape. After spending over a decade in the early section of Paradise, away from haki users, fighting newbie pirates unprepared for the Grand Line, he grew overconfident and complacent. Without noticing, he just wasn’t honing his skills anymore. He was far bellow his prime when he faced Luffy (and yet bit Luffy almost three times, to his credit). His defeat was so humiliating he wasn’t even willing to escape prison (in the BW cover story) and resigned to his fate in Impel Down.

But then Marineford happened and he had a chance to match against top opponents again. That’s the moment he realised how far he had fallen, so he decided to return to the New World and get back into shape.

So, Crocodile had an awakened power, but his skills, reflexes and strength were dulled. When he appears again, he will have regained some of his prime strength.

That's 100% the oppositeof what the character himself is saying. He said he is not one of those fools being satisfied with just having the power and that he worked on improving them. That's also why in the beginning was a league above Luffy. What you on the other hand consists of many if's which by itself is no bad thing in itself. But if it goes clearly againstwhat the author himself establishes through the characters words I would clearly side with the author here.

Deicide

@Ivotas:

That's 100% the oppositeof what the character himself is saying. He said he is not one of those fools being satisfied with just having the power and that he worked on improving them. That's also why in the beginning was a league above Luffy. What you on the other hand consists of many if's which by itself is no bad thing in itself. But if it goes clearly againstwhat the author himself establishes through the characters words I would clearly side with the author here.

I don’t see an issue? Crocodile was talking about mastery of his DF, and in my scenario he did master it. However, he would also be overestimating himself because he thought he had retained everything he got 20 years prior while in reality he had lost some strength over the years due to lack of challenges. His knowledge wasn’t lost thought. He still retains control over his DF. He’s just no longer in the same league as before. He’s like a world-class martial artists that spends 10 years just training students. He retains all of his skills, but his speed, strength and stamina are diminished due to not pushing himself to his limits.
IMO, Arabasta Croc was a high quality blade that got dulled over time. It just need some sharpening to go back to its full glory.

Daz

I can't say I'm surprised that Awakening is fast becoming the Haki 2.0 in terms of "all purpose bracket to put all past possible outliers in to ensure the manga is Consistent, Planned and Foreshadowed all along". Miss doublefinger, with the power to turn into spikes, using some sort of weird doping to bulk up? Definetely awakening. Wapol being able to expand his mouth, chew through and digest anything, incorporate these things into his body AND fuse things together seems like a bit overkill at first, but no that doofus king simply awakened like his royal peer Doflamingo.

Much like with Haki, I just don’t really get this impulse to retrofit Consistency onto the series, not when theres so many interviews, statements and whatnot of Oda openly showing that he is not an insanely meticulous master planner who always makes sure his world 100% Checks Out. Not when we have stuff like Mr 3 floating being called out, and then later re-incorporated as super floaty wood. Not when the brief moments of awakening, happening 500, 800 and 900 chapters into the series had highly specific contexts and framings, and were clearly called out as noteworthy, which is what Oda also did when introducing the Haki concept from post-Enies Lobby onwards.
In the Alabasta arc Crocodile directly talks about the need to use your DF to its full potential, and proceeds to not level up his ability, but to use the inherent attributes of sand- its dryness, its ability to erode – in creative ways. And when Luffy claps back to this comment it is when he not levels up his DF, but uses his inherent abilities of elasticity and recoil in creative ways to get the drop on Crocodile. If you want to retroactively warp the scene you can say that “actually Luffy was completely off base and Crocodile WAS talking about awakening and coincidentally his awakening was just also doing inherently sandy things”. But I don’t know why one would do that. Why can’t all those old outliers simply be outliers that happened because Oda thought them neat at the time, and isn't committed to a rigid DF ruleset?

A related Question for Greg:
Oda has, in many interviews and extra material, been up front about how many things in the series were improvised, how his plans have been changed and updated, even explicit statements that he’s not yet sure how he’ll handle certain things. Yet I think its fair to say Oda has a general perception as a meticulous “master planner”, with the “Goda” moniker and all that. Do you have a sense of how Oda views this? Is this “master planner” idea something he, and the general franchise handlers, are aware of and actively leaning into? Or is it more borne out of the fandom?
Note I’m obviously not saying Oda never plans anything or isn’t good at remembering and paying off very old setups, but I often just find theres such a gulf in how he is perceived in comparison to other shonen writers, where theres a more general attitude of “all of this probably wasn’t planned from day 1”

Jabra

Nah, I don't think he will retrofit everything comparable to Haki, that was necessary because it affected the integrity of the world down to the lowest level.

As it stands I believe he will lock awakening behind the Yonkou top commanders / Warlords and upwards as a sign of superiority (similiar to the new materialized CoC). Crocodile and Magellan are prime candidates, but I don't see anyone below that as an early Awakener.

Like, the general idea behind awakening is going to be obeyed, which means the Devil Fruit suddenly affects the environment. In Doublefinger's case you would expect spikes growing out of the ground on their own, for example.

Ground Death and Hell's Judgement would fit well though.

Deicide

@Jabra:

Nah, I don't think he will retrofit everything comparable to Haki, that was necessary because it affected the integrity of the world down to the lowest level.

As it stands I believe he will lock awakening behind the Yonkou top commanders / Warlords and upwards as a sign of superiority (similiar to the new materialized CoC). Crocodile and Magellan are prime candidates, but I don't see anyone below that as an early Awakener.

Like, the general idea behind awakening is going to be obeyed, which means the Devil Fruit suddenly affects the environment. In Doublefinger's case you would expect spikes growing out of the ground on their own, for example.

Ground Death and Hell's Judgement would fit well though.

What about my “Brook has already awakened” theory?
His powers post-TS are on a whole another level from before.

I don’t expect many “retroactive awakenings” either. Croc and Magellan I agree, but I’d add Kuma (Pushing pain?!?) and Brook as well. I’d need to revise every single DF before to pinpoint others, but I don’t think there are many. In Kuma’s and Brook’s cases, I’d argue their fruits only affect their users in a way more similar to zoans, so their awakning means their self-abilities get new capabilities rather than affect the environment.

Jabra

@Deicide:

What about my “Brook has already awakened” theory?
His powers post-TS are on a whole another level from before.

I don’t expect many “retroactive awakenings” either. Croc and Magellan I agree, but I’d add Kuma (Pushing pain?!?) and Brook as well. I’d need to revise every single DF before to pinpoint others, but I don’t think there are many. In Kuma’s and Brook’s cases, I’d argue their fruits only affect their users in a way more similar to zoans, so their awakning means their self-abilities get new capabilities rather than affect the environment.

It's possible, Brook is a main character after all so he might be an exception.

But what I hope is that he will eventually not only leave his body, but insert himself into something else. Literal possession, he "awakens" the environment through his own soul.

Back in Dressrosa I thought it would be so cool if he possessed the remnants of Pika's massive stone Golem, but I guess that would have been too op at the time.

Ivotas

@Deicide:

I don’t see an issue? Crocodile was talking about mastery of his DF, and in my scenario he did master it. However, he would also be overestimating himself because he thought he had retained everything he got 20 years prior while in reality he had lost some strength over the years due to lack of challenges. His knowledge wasn’t lost thought. He still retains control over his DF. He’s just no longer in the same league as before. He’s like a world-class martial artists that spends 10 years just training students. He retains all of his skills, but his speed, strength and stamina are diminished due to not pushing himself to his limits.
IMO, Arabasta Croc was a high quality blade that got dulled over time. It just need some sharpening to go back to its full glory.

That's assuming that mastery equals awakening which I would consider a stretch. Because the OP world now is full of people who I would say are quite amazing at using their abilities and yet they don't seem to have awakened it. I admit that I don't have much else to add to my stance so it's quite weak. But I consider the sheer difference between Crocodile and Akainu/Aokiji in terms of what they are able to do with their abilities a clear sign that Croc is leagues below. Sakazuki snd Kuzan changed the climate of Punk Hazard which remained for yrars after their fight while Crocodile was at a place that was a desert kingdom to begin with and there he couldn't even stop a small sandstorm he created. I think if that's awakening then he surely is patheticly weak in comparison to the others. It would make more sense to me for awakening to be something he could still achieve to receive a power up for when he comes back.

Also if Crocodile awakened his ability then Luffy must have surely also have awakened his ability. Because in their second fight Luffy thanked Crocodile for telling him that one can train his ability which is what Luffy claims to be doing right there and then. And it was clearly not ability awakening that Luffy did neither back then there at any other point in the manga yet. It makes no sense to me for the auther to establish that Luffy is now doing the same thing that Crocidile was bragging about only for that to be two completely different things i.e. awakening for Crocodile and anything but awakening for Luffy. No offense mate, but if a made theory that uses a lit of ifs goes so much against what the author establishes in the series then I clearly think that it holds no water.

Cockycent

What Luffy and Zala do sound like they're being creative within the limits of what their ability can do.

Producing string, then turning other objects into that same thing is clearly not the same thing.

Ivotas

@Jabra:

It's possible, Brook is a main character after all so he might be an exception.

But what I hope is that he will eventually not only leave his body, but insert himself into something else. Literal possession, he "awakens" the environment through his own soul.

I'm quite sure that something of that sort will happen at some point. Just like Wild Bill (I hope I remember that name correctly) was able to posses other people in Wanted I'm sure that we'll see one version of this in the story. Just feel like Oda would use that concept from hus very first oneshot at dome point. What worries me though about a possible awakening is that he might go reviving other characters. We already started having living Senzu beans by characzers like Mansherry. Don't living Dragonballs too.

Greg

A related Question for Greg:
Oda has, in many interviews and extra material, been up front about how many things in the series were improvised, how his plans have been changed and updated, even explicit statements that he’s not yet sure how he’ll handle certain things. Yet I think its fair to say Oda has a general perception as a meticulous “master planner”, with the “Goda” moniker and all that. Do you have a sense of how Oda views this? Is this “master planner” idea something he, and the general franchise handlers, are aware of and actively leaning into? Or is it more borne out of the fandom?
Note I’m obviously not saying Oda never plans anything or isn’t good at remembering and paying off very old setups, but I often just find theres such a gulf in how he is perceived in comparison to other shonen writers, where theres a more general attitude of “all of this probably wasn’t planned from day 1”

Hmmm….

When you get to know how the sausage is made, there are aspects of the GOda image that fade.

The first few years I found myself constantly asking, "Wait...really?"

But while those aspects are revealed in a strikingly more down to earth light, entirely different aspects of his artistic and entertainment genius that you never even considered become apparent. Because he's (mercifully) so far removed from the public, those aspects aren't clear and if you ask the man himself, I'm sure he'd be happy they remain that way.

When Oda makes statements like, "I don't know how Luffy will beat Kaido." Make no mistake, he's being a showman. He's up there with Houdini and Barnum. He's not necessarily blatantly lying, but he's giving you a truth from a certain perspective. I have said this for a long time and people like to brush it off, but to be a great mangaka, you must be a legendary bullshit artist. Everything from depiction, to presentation, to product, the better you can bullshit, the more successful a manga artist you will be. And that's not an insult. Every great tale or joke is based on bullshit:

You're lead to believe something is impossible, but then, somehow, it becomes possible and the person telling you knows it's possible all along.

Simple concept. But the more impossible that 'something' sounds and the better you can explain how that 'something' gets pulled off, the more pleasing a story it is.

Oda doesn't just draw his story that way, everything he does is a calculated performance. I'd clarify that he's not lying. He is often misleading and there's a fine line between that and lying but when he's misleading it's often because he feels that the result will defy expectations or that the misleading itself can temper expectations.

Some of the most openly honest sessions Oda has had are in the 'Manga is a Wonderland' comments that came with some of the manga Logs. The general theme there was Oda revealing instances of serendipity. He was shockingly open there. But there are other aspects of the series' major developments that fans celebrate him for which, surprisingly enough, came as a result of mistakes on Oda's part with resolutions being born from the creative team. To my knowledge, he does not openly discuss those aspects due to what I assume to be a matter of pride (rightfully so) but that might be presumptuous.

So yes, Oda is aware of what the fans think of him (at least in Japan) and he plays that up to help his story and characters shine more brightly. Is he perfect? No. And he's not 'GOda' for the same reasons many people believe him to be. But on a number of different levels, he is a certifiable genius.

I guess one example of 'disappointment' would be hidden messages.

There are hidden messages in the series that I think only a handful of people in the world know about with most of them being in Japan.

The first half of the series is absolutely dripping in them.

I used to think they were all placed there by Oda but when I happily sent him enlarged panels praising him for his cleverness, he responded, "...What is this?" Turns out the majority of those messages were a result of the creative team.

I have explored that aspect of the series publicly....exactly once. I won't say what or where but it is an official outlet (ie. not here) and I wondered if I could sneakily present a behind-the-scenes aspect without trying to be too direct or point towards the mastermind. The result, Oda wasn't happy with the creative team adding certain aspects behind his back and had a long talk with them.

This is one of the many reasons I can't wait for serialization to end bc I can finally talk about all this cool stuff hidden in plain sight but if Oda isn't happy with it (and his unexpected reasons are great ones) then I'm not going to blab about them just because it'll get me some Followers.

Shiebs

Greg what do you think about the fights being so short? I know Oda can't give every member of the crew a 2 to 3 chapter fight for every arc like he used to, because it brings the story to a halt and he'd never finish in time…. BUT this is a full on fight with a Yonko crew that Oda has been building to for over 10 YEARS, and most of the Straw Hat pirates haven't even got a single fight post timeskip, it just seems like this would be the time to let them have there big battles like he did against Baroque Works and CP9 because the next time we'll get to see something like this is probably the big face off against the Black Beard Pirates in the finale of the series

Just seeing Ulti, Page One, Who's Who and Sasaki get defeated so quickly was kind of sad, although I did really enjoy the show Who's Who put up

Deicide

Even being able to play up those roles is a talent in itself, so Oda is a genius, no doubt.

Not trying to compare myself to him, but when I'm writing a story, I only really have an idea of how it starts and how it ends. Same with subplots, I know hat they will be about and how they end. I don't know how the road between those points, I make it up as it goes. And sometimes elements line up so perfectly, and I mean like two completely different plots that reach the perfect point to join together by coincidence around the same point of the story, that you jsut need to bridge them together, and boom, you have a totally unexpected development. Because not even I, the writer, was expecting it.

And this happens all the time, sometimes minor characters become greater, or you find out that some big character isn't working as intended and you change his role. In the story I'm writing right now, I had not planned a single of the antagonists' deaths or defeats before hand. I just knew how the heroes would be in the end. It's often while writing the chapters that the connections form in your brain and you find out the perfect way to off someone or align your objectives with how the story is going.

This is an immensely satisfying process, and that's why I love to overanalyze Oda's work a lot. There's some moments I feel he's just bridging together points he hadn't planned to be merged before. But there's also some scenes in which I think "This will have a greater meaning down the road, let's play close attention to it". It's thrilling when I manage to predict some twist, but also amazing when I'm totally surprised yet satisfied by a twist I couldn't foresee. Then I go back and re-read things to try to guess which of those were defined earlier or later.

Cockycent

you must be a legendary bullshit artist. Everything from depiction, to presentation, to product, the better you can bullshit, the more successful a manga artist you will be. And that's not an insult. Every great tale or joke is based on bullshit:

Kinda what I said about the 4-5 years stuff. I knew the closer we got to a 2025 or 2026, people would realize there's too much to make it possible. It's not even 2022 yet and people are already removing themselves from that stance.

Greg

Kinda what I said about the 4-5 years stuff. I knew the closer we got to a 2025 or 2026, people would realize there's too much to make it possible. It's not even 2022 yet and people are already removing themselves from that stance.

Similar, but different…but similar.

If Oda outright lied about the estimates, he's be a not-nice-person.

Thing is, he, nor any editor, has EVER willingly lied about OP's story length or remaining time (important to note the difference).

Every Oda comment on the topic has been 100% what they've been aiming for. People blew that '4-5 years' comment out of proportion (even in Japan!) because they're not listening to what he's said.

I'm not pulling up the clip to double confirm but unless I'm grossly mistaken Oda said, "I'd like to finish in 4-5 years."

Every fan and news outlet took the courtesy of removing I'D LIKE TO and posted it as, "One Piece WILL finish in 4-5 years."

So Oda's not lying…or bullshitting there.

.........

.....................but

He's knows damn well that the series may go longer depending on how he writes. Which is why he'd like to finish in that time.

He also knows that most fans will hear 'One Piece' 'ending' and 'X years' and tune everything else out and that is where some of his showmanship comes into play. He wants to finish ASAP but he's not gonna do a crappy job and he loves his work so he'll just keep going as long as the story/characters demand it.

Kdom

Greg, you have spoken several time about the creative team. Is it a shortcut for the assistants and the editors or is it more than that ?

Greg

Completely valid question but out of respect for everyone involved I'm not going to elaborate on the specifics of what I mean by that. At least not while the series is running. It's not some kabal, nor is it some tantalizing secret. It's just how I refer to the collective team that works on the series.

starlalilymoon

Greg, how did you meet Oda and became friends with him? curious

Robby

He went onto a gameshow, got declared a top OP fan, and impressed the editors. And then he did it again. And then they gave him a column. And then he did a magic trick for Oda.

There's more to it than that, but that's the origin.

starlalilymoon

@Robby:

He went onto a gameshow, got declared a top OP fan, and impressed the editors. And then he did it again. And then they gave him a column. And then he did a magic trick for Oda.

There's more to it than that, but that's the origin.

Oooo, that actually sounds pretty epic! Thank you!

What kind of magic trick? curious

wolfwood

Sounds like Oda subscribes to the George Costanza school of lying

FolhaS

@Greg:

I guess one example of 'disappointment' would be hidden messages.

There are hidden messages in the series that I think only a handful of people in the world know about with most of them being in Japan.

The first half of the series is absolutely dripping in them.

I used to think they were all placed there by Oda but when I happily sent him enlarged panels praising him for his cleverness, he responded, "…What is this?" Turns out the majority of those messages were a result of the creative team.

I have explored that aspect of the series publicly....exactly once. I won't say what or where but it is an official outlet (ie. not here) and I wondered if I could sneakily present a behind-the-scenes aspect without trying to be too direct or point towards the mastermind. The result, Oda wasn't happy with the creative team adding certain aspects behind his back and had a long talk with them.

This is one of the many reasons I can't wait for serialization to end bc I can finally talk about all this cool stuff hidden in plain sight but if Oda isn't happy with it (and his unexpected reasons are great ones) then I'm not going to blab about them just because it'll get me some Followers.

Trying my luck here, you can just say you prefer not to discuss more details, but
are we talking innocent stuff, like funny sentences in passerby t-shirts, or something more serious that could be taken as some sort of hint?

Zik

@Greg:

Similar, but different…but similar.

If Oda outright lied about the estimates, he's be a not-nice-person.

Thing is, he, nor any editor, has EVER willingly lied about OP's story length or remaining time (important to note the difference).

Every Oda comment on the topic has been 100% what they've been aiming for. People blew that '4-5 years' comment out of proportion (even in Japan!) because they're not listening to what he's said.

I'm not pulling up the clip to double confirm but unless I'm grossly mistaken Oda said, "I'd like to finish in 4-5 years."

Every fan and news outlet took the courtesy of removing I'D LIKE TO and posted it as, "One Piece WILL finish in 4-5 years."

So Oda's not lying…or bullshitting there.

.........

.....................but

He's knows damn well that the series may go longer depending on how he writes. Which is why he'd like to finish in that time.

He also knows that most fans will hear 'One Piece' 'ending' and 'X years' and tune everything else out and that is where some of his showmanship comes into play. He wants to finish ASAP but he's not gonna do a crappy job and he loves his work so he'll just keep going as long as the story/characters demand it.

I wish ppl would play closer attention. Whole fandom running with the manga is ending very soon. Thinking One Piece is done in 2024 or something.

uniaka ikuzakas

So is one piece bound to keep going, even if Oda retires after the final war, others will take over and keep doing more one piece stuff.

wolfwood

What cracks me up about that recollection is that he went back to reprimand someone about him probably bullshitting when he knew that he was bullshitting. Is that some etiquette thing where your boss can't be allowed to be questioned by subordinates or something? Like imagine if you left your car at the shop, the guy in charge says i'd like to have it done by 15-16 september and his grease monkey leans in and says hey boss we're pretty fully booked that month it doesn't sound doable and the boss tells him to shut up and to tell the customer that we'll be done on 15 sep and when the day comes he's like oh turns out we had a lot to do your car will be done 1 october instead. That isn't even telling half-truths, that is willfull misleading

Dylcor

Hey Greg this is a super neat theory that I think you might be interested in if you have the time to watch it

desa

@wolfwood:

What cracks me up about that recollection is that he went back to reprimand someone about him probably bullshitting when he knew that he was bullshitting. Is that some etiquette thing where your boss can't be allowed to be questioned by subordinates or something? Like imagine if you left your car at the shop, the guy in charge says i'd like to have it done by 15-16 september and his grease monkey leans in and says hey boss we're pretty fully booked that month it doesn't sound doable and the boss tells him to shut up and to tell the customer that we'll be done on 15 sep and when the day comes he's like oh turns out we had a lot to do your car will be done 1 october instead. That isn't even telling half-truths, that is willfull misleading

The importance of public solidarity. You can question in private but when dealing with the client/audience its one message.

Greg

Hey Greg this is a super neat theory that I think you might be interested in if you have the time to watch it

22 minutes and filled with unofficial-friendly media? Won't be viewing but if you can summarize it I'm happy to give my thoughts.

Trying my luck here, you can just say you prefer not to discuss more details, but
are we talking innocent stuff, like funny sentences in passerby t-shirts, or something more serious that could be taken as some sort of hint?

Nothing to do with the story. And, in fact, Oda's concern was that these messages don't have anything to do with the story.

He actually addressed this incident briefly in an SBS and it's how the Morgan name (and others) cameo came about in early Wano.

Captain M

@Dylcor:

Hey Greg this is a super neat theory that I think you might be interested in if you have the time to watch it

Finally checked this thing out after seeing it reposted and referenced repeatedly on reddit over the past few days. The clickbait title put me off it at a glance, and that same vibe just keeps going through the video (I'm already watching, mate, you don't have to try to grab my attention with "why is no one talking about this?")

I could get behind some parts of the first half. Jaya once having had a second city in the other eye to represent the moon alongside the sun city in the other eye is a cool idea. I don't see why it has to be the location of the One Piece, but it'd be a cool throwback for something to have happened there when we do explore the ancient past. Connections between Shadora, Wano and the Ancient Kingdom alongside the sun and the moon, yeah, obviously, I've got my own thread here about that stuff. I don't think he's reached the right conclusion, but it seems like he's looking at the right things. I like the talk about the consistent left eye wound motif across the series. I hadn't thought a lot about how common a sign that is before.

Second half is where it gets all tinfoil and really starts to reach to make its points. The bit with the numbers and their connections to specific chapters is painful. Anyone paying attention to things like the shifting estimates for the end of the series or things like the "year of Sanji" or the hint of a death in the "near future" years before Merry died knows that Oda can't predict what's going to fall in what chapter number too far in advance. Storytelling, especially the kind of serialised you have to do for a weekly shonen manga, just doesn't lend itself to that kind of precision. Any theory that proposes Oda knew what info he would drop in exactly which chapter and left a hint to the chapter number ten years in advance is bullshit. It's inadmissible as evidence.

And the Enies Lobby bit did not speak to me at all. Using the D to make Done Piece and Denies Lobby? Why? Oda's done his fair share of Japanese wordplay in the past, but he's never paid as much specific attention to the romanised spellings of things. The number of characters whose names have been romanised two different ways in official material speaks to that. He asks why the World Government would have a separate facility for mock trials and processing prisoners instead of doing it all at Impel Down, but why wouldn't they? Our real life courtrooms and prisons aren't in the same building. It obviously functions as a symbol to the Marines' idea of justice. He proposes the buildings on the island were already there because the Ancient Kingdom built them and the World Government just expanded on that, but they don't really match the architecture of any of the ancient buildings we have. The towers and walls of Enies Lobby would look more at home next to Mariejoa than as Shandora's immediate neighbour. I was waiting for the theory to work in the hole in the ocean or the eternal sun as a good reason why the main island had to be part of Jaya or proof it had been moved. That kind of point could have gone a long way to bring the second half back to a more realist point, but it never came.

I'll leave it to someone who actually knows Japanese to talk about the validity of the "at the bottom" interpretation of Roger's last words, but it feels like a fringe reading considering no one else has discussed it previously. Like someone looked up an obscure or archaic definition and got a little too caught up in the discovery. The usually-reliable Kaizokuou-ni-naru blog made no mention of it in their reading of the manga.

So yeah, a pretty negative impression here. Heavily clickbaited video that starts out with a decent enough analysis of symbolic links but devolves quickly into conspiratory number games and big logical leaps that don't tie in their loose ends.

Zik

Got around to watching that and its just more and more number theories and Japanese words having multiple meanings to say One Piece is at the bottom of the hole in Enies Lobby.

Putting the D. in front of One Piece and Enies Lobby for weird phrases or sayings.

I pretty much checked out with the Noland and Roger comparison.

I hope when Artur gets healthy his big One Piece theory isn't anything like this one.

starlalilymoon

@Dylcor:

Hey Greg this is a super neat theory that I think you might be interested in if you have the time to watch it

I do like the idea of an island being in the other eye of Jaya, but I really think it was just and empty lake. I feel like if there was something there, it would have been foreshadowed. I watched the entire video and it bounced all over the place. It feels too conspiracy like for me with the numbers and chapters, etc. Plus, a lot of it doesn't make sense, as it's not really put together well. Like why Enies Lobby? I don't think putting a D in front of any English words would make much meaning.

Like the person who made the video threw that really out of the blue I feel like. I really don't think Oda was planning that far ahead with numbers and stuff, honestly that's just coincidental. I think if Oda was planning, it would not be specific numbers but specific events like with Laboon and Brook.

Regardless, I did enjoy the video, even if I disagree with it completely. I like how he narrated it, and it was nice seeing One Piece clips as well. That's just my thoughts anyway.

wolfwood

@desa:

The importance of public solidarity. You can question in private but when dealing with the client/audience its one message.

It will never cease to amuse me how acting right and properly in a Japanese context would translate to being an utter unreliable rat bastard in a Swedish context. The world is one big whacky place sometimes

Dragon D. Luffy

Ohara is very clickbaity in the presentation of his videos but he tends to make good analyses.

His recent niche seems to be to find weird theories in the Japanese OP community and bring them to the west in videos, since he lives in Japan.

There is another one that suggests Bink's Sake contains hints to the plot of One Piece that is pretty good.

Edit: just watched it. Thought the video was pretty solid, though I could have done without the Enies Lobby part. It isn't any worse than the Number Theory that people mention every day in the nakama thread, really.

I enjoyed pointing out to all the references to left eyes in the series. I thought it was leading to OP being in the moon, though (another theory I've seen before), not Enies Lobby.

Greg

Oda favors the left because he's lefty.

And he still can't remember which side Zoro's swords are supposed to be on.

And the number theory is, has been, and always will be irrelevant. In fact, Oda intentionally trolls readers with number use to lead them down the wrong path.

Shiebs

Looks like Greg's momotaro theory is about to come true, now that we know Yamato is a dog and Luffy is obviously the monkey, now all we need is for Marco to appear

Zik

@Greg:

And the number theory is, has been, and always will be irrelevant. In fact, Oda intentionally trolls readers with number use to lead them down the wrong path.

In my eyes this is more sweet sweet confirmation Yamato is going to join the strawhats

Greg

Yup. Wish I had the good common sense to realize it would be Yamato with them in the end. If I did, I would've nailed the fruit way earlier. But no, like a chump, I believed Wanda or Dogstorm would factor in (^○^). Ya got me Oda!!!! Well deserved. I so prefer that to, "Yeah I saw this coming."

Shiebs

Greg what do you think of Yamato saying he wants to sail with Luffy

Greg

Already a crew member in my mind's eye.

Look, if Momo can't go, a Kozuki must go with them to complete the dramatic circle. If it's not Hiyori (dunno why it would be) there's literally no other choice than a literal avatar of Oden.

It just makes sense.

Joy Boy

@Greg:

Yup. Wish I had the good common sense to realize it would be Yamato with them in the end. If I did, I would've nailed the fruit way earlier. But no, like a chump, I believed Wanda or Dogstorm would factor in (^○^). Ya got me Oda!!!! Well deserved. I so prefer that to, "Yeah I saw this coming."

You think Marco is joining or will Oda find a different pheasant ?

ArmamentHero

With Yamato's DF being revealed… I know there's references to Momotaro, especially the dog and then there's the wolf from Yamato Takeru tales.

So my question is... Are there any other references behind this wolf?

Greg

Besides being an actual guradian deity, very likely inspired by Princess Mononoke (which was likely itself inspired by the deity).

rawrfizzz

@Joy:

You think Marco is joining or will Oda find a different pheasant ?

It won't be, but I wish it was random Kuzan.

FolhaS

@Greg:

Nothing to do with the story. And, in fact, Oda's concern was that these messages don't have anything to do with the story.

He actually addressed this incident briefly in an SBS and it's how the Morgan name (and others) cameo came about in early Wano.

Oh, he's pissed someone is writing silly stuff on his work, like teens doing random grafitti on the streets
I can sympathize with that

But I don't think I know what Morgan cameo you're talking about. Anyone can fill me in?

rawrfizzz

If I went to all the trouble of writing an intricately detailed and planned out work like One Piece I'd be hella pissed if someone just threw random other crap in there to amuse themselves. I'd like to assume that person no longer has a job with Oda.

Robby

@rawrfizzz:

If I went to all the trouble of writing an intricately detailed and planned out work like One Piece I'd be hella pissed if someone just threw random other crap in there to amuse themselves. I'd like to assume that person no longer has a job with Oda.

Super minor background details that you can't notice without a magnifying glass. Like words on the spines of books or something, or a random easter egg reference buried in a pile of rubble.

The only example I can think of offhand is the pokemon Meltan showing up in Kid's giant junk arms.

Nothing that would hurt the story, but not something Oda wanted put in there, all the same.

Greg

If you know the details/people involved the messages are interesting. Sometimes funny and they reveal a good deal about the creative team.

The Meltan itself is Oda's but it's also super tough to point out. Technically he shouldn't have made it and when I pointed it out on the column I couldn't even name it or point it out for legal reasons ^o^

Zik

What are your thoughts or ideas or any knowledge as far as the crew being complete after 10 members or there possibly being more crew mates and Oda indicating or implying that this is it either by announcement or via Luffy in story?

Some think after 10 that'll be it (so the next crew mate thread will be done). Some think there will be more (continue the next crew mate until the end of the manga).