Arlong Park Forums

The Government has always been trying to sweep under the rug anything and everything related to the Great Kingdom and this includes the weapon that was used against them(Uranus). To flaunt a weapon like that will both reveal an important piece of the past(which they have been trying very hard to conceal) and precipitate the war they dread.

Uranus is a weapon of mass destruction. Its use on pirates will cause more harm than good to the people of the world. Since Uranus is a threat to world peace, its wielder will be considered a threat to world peace as well, and the world will loose faith in the World Government.
[qimg]http://i.imgur.com/BgTjRuo.png[/qimg]

It will cause people to secretly take countermeasures against the threat to world piece(World Government). That is how such precipitation to the world war will happen.

Yeah, gotta disagree with this here. The display of an unequaled WMD isn't a case for distrust in the World Government and creates pressure on other nations. Rather than conceal a weapon, a government that both passively discriminates (Fishman Island, Doflamingo's flashback) and actively persecutes (Robin's bridge to nowhere TS adventure) is exactly the type of organization to flaunt a weapon of currently unparalleled power. It could be used as a threat against the Yonkou, the Revolutionaries, and any other problematic organization.

Moreover, if the treasure was simply a weapon like we think Uranus is, there would be no reason to conceal it. Even if Uranus was what destroyed the Great Civilization in the past, there's no way to connect its activity back then to the WG today, 700 years later. The Gorosei could simply claim that they had acquired Uranus in the many years following the Void Century. Plus, there's no evidence that the Great Civilization is viewed in a positive light by any modern day nations as a whole, WG-affiliated or otherwise.

In other words, the existence of Uranus as a simply powerful weapon isn't enough to justify concealing it.

What's much more likely, in my opinion, is that the National Treasure of Mariejois poses a threat to the validity of the WG's rule in a way that the possession of a powerful weapon can't. Doflamingo didn't jist plan to steal the treasure, he blackmailed the WG government about its existence. Compare the secret nature of the treasure to Spandam's plan to obtain Pluton, which he would have used to expand control over the globe. It's certainly possible that the nature of Uranus, if in the possession of the WG, makes it unwise to publicize, just like Neptune. That possibility needs to be factored in to any analysis of the WG's handling of their treasure.

Another possibility that I like is that the treasure of Mariejois is actually another secret ancient weapon, one whose existence the WG has meticulously covered up. Uranus, Poseidon, and Neptune would have all been on the side of the Great Civilization, and this secret weapon would have had the strength to oppose them, though likely at great cost. Again, the nature of this weapon would necessitate secrecy, to the point where the WG erased all mentions of its existence.

Kaptayn

Great theory, Austra-boy.

zeff redleg

The Government is pampering him because it is completely inconvenient for them to have the world know about the weapon. The Government showed concern over public faith over and over again.

Why should it not be the case?

Leaking information to public that the world govt holds an ancient weapon won't cause much of a chaos in the world. The world govt can easily defend the public opinion by saying that it's to eliminate the pirates/yonkou.
They could have also sent an admiral to capture doflamingo and resolve the situation as well as stop the rumors. I just don't see it as a big deal that they need to to hush up everything. On the other hand if the national treasure was something which caused the pirates to attack them for it's worth like say One Piece itself or the thing Shiki mentioned roger had then it would be a totally different situation.

Anyways when i first read the chapter, i thought the national treasure was an ancient weapon as well, but then i rejected that idea because it seemed kinda obvious.

Ned_Gutters

I want to come up with a more relevant/reasoned response (I agree with most of what you say, but have a few small qualms), but it's 2am and I just wanna put this out there for now: I believe that Dragon is Uranus, thus why he is "the most dangerous man in the world," and explaining his association with the weather.

But I don't have many other reasons for it, besides thinking it would be REALLY cool. Though, on the other hand, Oda has said that his only way of deciding what to include in One Piece is asking himself "What would 15 year old Oda think is REALLY cool." So… Yeah, iunno.

Good work putting together this theory, Australopithecus. I especially enjoyed each moment you ruled out one weapon or another as having opposed the ancient kingdom.

I'll give a more relevant response when I can. But, by the way: Your name has a music note under it.... I can't help but wonder... Is your name a modest mouse reference? In the "Call to Dial a Song" portion of the old album "Sad Sappy Sucker," he recorded a song called Austral Opithecus. I know it's a long shot, but hey may as well ask!

kcity

Good job of gathering all the information, but this theory is a bit like stating the obvious in comparison to the well thought out dragon fruit theory.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

I want to come up with a more relevant/reasoned response (I agree with most of what you say, but have a few small qualms), but it's 2am and I just wanna put this out there for now: I believe that Dragon is Uranus, thus why he is "the most dangerous man in the world," and explaining his association with the weather.

But I don't have many other reasons for it, besides thinking it would be REALLY cool. Though, on the other hand, Oda has said that his only way of deciding what to include in One Piece is asking himself "What would 15 year old Oda think is REALLY cool." So… Yeah, iunno.

Good work putting together this theory, Australopithecus. I especially enjoyed each moment you ruled out one weapon or another as having opposed the ancient kingdom.

I'll give a more relevant response when I can. But, by the way: Your name has a music note under it.... I can't help but wonder... Is your name a modest mouse reference? In the "Call to Dial a Song" portion of the old album "Sad Sappy Sucker," he recorded a song called Austral Opithecus. I know it's a long shot, but hey may as well ask!

Maybe Dragon has the countermeasure to those ancient weapons. It makes sense that the government is in possesion of at least one of the weapons and Poseidon and Pluton were literally confirmed in both manga and anime.

Kaptayn

I want to come up with a more relevant/reasoned response (I agree with most of what you say, but have a few small qualms), but it's 2am and I just wanna put this out there for now: I believe that Dragon is Uranus, thus why he is "the most dangerous man in the world," and explaining his association with the weather.

That would definitely be cool but Poseidon is already a person, two weapons being actual humans wouldn't be a bit too much ?

Maju

wouldn't make much sense..the WG wanted pluton to end the pirate era..if they already had an ancestral weapon on their own..they wouldn't have waited a bit and use it already

Clessenur

@Maju:

wouldn't make much sense..the WG wanted pluton to end the pirate era..if they already had an ancestral weapon on their own..they wouldn't have waited a bit and use it already

Actually they didn't. Spandam wanted it. They just told him to get blueprints and then they will see to it again.

Lexurite

There is a plothole in your theory: if the WG destroyed the Ancient Kingdom with the ancient weapons then how did the AK manage to know where are the ancient weapons are localized and how and why the WG lost them? I still think the ancient weapons were created by the AK because they had a much more superior technology compared to the WG (and I think their technology is still ahead of Vegapunk's even though he's catching up with them). Because if the WG could make them 900 or so years ago then why can't they come up with something better?

Australopithecus

@RomanceDawn:

A lot of it makes sense. I just wonder if the government was so hell bent on stopping the great pirate era why go through all the trouble to get Pluton if Uranus is parked right at home?

This is a better answer than previously.
@Jabberwok:

Yeah, gotta disagree with this here…

@zeff:

Leaking information to public…

The knowledge Doflamingo holds is Pandora's box
@Maju:

wouldn't make much sense..the WG wanted pluton to end the pirate era..if they already had an ancestral weapon on their own..they wouldn't have waited a bit and use it already

Like I said, at his last breaths, Whitebeard said that the Government is afraid of the upcoming war that will engulf the world.

To leave a weapon that is going to make another force(like the revolutionaries or Crocodile) a ‘threat’ to their reign is risky. If they obtain a second weapon, they will either greatly diminish the risk that threatens their reign or truly become ‘invincible’.

When Spanda mentioned Pluton’s blueprint for the first time to the ‘five elders’, they said: ‘so there really is such a thing’. This indicates that they were aware of its existence, but they had doubts, and Spanda was assuring them of the blueprints' existence.

The reason they had doubts was because they have kept going after the blueprints for over 800 years, but they couldn’t get their hands on them.

When Franky was talking to Spanda, he said that the ‘designer’s wish’ was not ‘how to make a weapon’, but to create an ‘opposing power’ in case the weapon, Pluton, falls into the hands of an idiot like Spanda and starts its rampage.

In other words, this was a precaution against the worst case scenario in which the weapon, Pluton, falls into the hands of people like Spanda( Government). It implies that the designers was not against the creation of Pluton(otherwise he wouldn’t have created it), but he was taking precaution against the scenario of having the weapon acquired by people like the Gov. Aware of the blueprint’s existence, the Government couldn’t afford to be stupid enough to precipitate that which they dread through the use of Uranus.

In the Japanese raw, ‘how to make a weapon’, the ‘designer’s wish’ and the ‘opposing power’ were all stressed. The ‘opposing power’ was stressed over and over and over again. It’s like Oda-sensei is telling us,’yes, they have a weapon’. I check the raw to both see if the English translation matches with the original text and see where Oda-sensei puts his stress.

When Professor Clover was talking with Robin, he said that when the prohibition of studying the history of the Void Century became the world’s law, scholars throughout the world lost their lives. In other words, there have been a myriad of people who could ‘decipher’ the glyphs during these 800 years.

For people who dread the big war, the use of Uranus will only precipitate the war. As long as both the people who could decipher the glyphs and the blueprint exist, the use of Uranus will backfire on them. However, the use of Uranus after they get their hands on another weapon is a different argument.

When Lucci was talking to Iceburg, he said that they will awaken the weapon and make it be the ‘power of justice’.

In other words, it will become the power of the Government. The Government and justice are interchangeable terms in One Piece.

To this Iceburg answered that the awakening of the weapon will make the entire world fight over it and the suffering will increase.

It won’t matter under whose possession the weapon is(Gov in this case); everyone in every nook and cranny will set their sights on it and try to take it even if it means loosing their lives in the process because it is the ‘nature of humans’. The ‘nature of humans’ was stressed in the Japanese text. If the Government is aware of this scenario, it will be reasonable to try and avoid it through the concealment of the weapon.
@Kaptayn:

Great theory, Austra-boy.

Haha, thanks, Kaptayn
@Ned_Gutters:

I want to come up with a more relevant/reasoned response (I agree with most of what you say, but have a few small qualms), but it's 2am and I just wanna put this out there for now: I believe that Dragon is Uranus, thus why he is "the most dangerous man in the world," and explaining his association with the weather.

But I don't have many other reasons for it, besides thinking it would be REALLY cool. Though, on the other hand, Oda has said that his only way of deciding what to include in One Piece is asking himself "What would 15 year old Oda think is REALLY cool." So… Yeah, iunno.

Dragon is referred to as“the worst ‘criminal’ in the world” because he is the only one leading a force that aims to overthrow the government directly. I confirmed it in the Japanese text. What is written is ‘hanzaisha’(犯罪者). It means criminal or culprit in English.

Good work putting together this theory, Australopithecus. I especially enjoyed each moment you ruled out one weapon or another as having opposed the ancient kingdom.

Thanks, Ned! I am glad you enjoyed it. I would have sent it to you in a PM if you hadn’t read it because you said that you are demanding of theories.

I'll give a more relevant response when I can. But, by the way: Your name has a music note under it…. I can't help but wonder... Is your name a modest mouse reference? In the "Call to Dial a Song" portion of the old album "Sad Sappy Sucker," he recorded a song called Austral Opithecus. I know it's a long shot, but hey may as well ask!

No, it isn’t. The music note is there because I find it ‘cool’, hahaha If you want to know more about my name, here is this link
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australopithecus
@kcity:

Good job of gathering all the information, but this theory is a bit like stating the obvious in comparison to the well thought out dragon fruit theory.

Thanks, Kcity. Even if the national treasure’s true nature may be obvious to you, it is a good idea to strengthen it with other supporting arguments. That way, the credibility of the statement that it is an ancient weapon increases. It wasn’t easy. I had to check to see if there are any inconsistencies in my thoughts. The info was scattered throughout 78 volumes. The Kaido theory was easier compared to this, hahaha
@Lexurite:

There is a plothole in your theory: if the WG destroyed the Ancient Kingdom with the ancient weapons then how did the AK manage to know where are the ancient weapons are localized and how and why the WG lost them?

My oh my! An ancient weapon. Just one. Not more. The connection that we have thus far between the Ancient Kingdom and Poseidon is Joy Boy.

The Ancient Kingdom knows about Pluton because they were implied to have created it.

Regarding their knowledge about Uranus, not much is known about this issue, but since it is the weapon that has pulverized them, they must have written about it on the stone(s) so as to warn the next generation about what they are up against.

I have always been wondering about this ‘hole’. What does it mean? Does it mean an ‘inconsistency’?
@Lexurite:

I still think the ancient weapons were created by the AK because they had a much more superior technology compared to the WG (and I think their technology is still ahead of Vegapunk's even though he's catching up with them). Because if the WG could make them 900 or so years ago then why can't they come up with something better?

There are several possible scenarios behind Uranus’ creation. It will be a long discussion in which I do not wish to engage at the moment

ya-me

good theory maybe WG cant use Uranus because there is another element needed for them to be able to use it i don't mean Opi Opi.the weapons made by people of void country right maybe only a D could activate them but not any D only The D Who could hear the Voice of all creation like Gol D Roger and on FI we saw luffy has the ability too.

sorry for bad English.

kcity

Thanks, Kcity. Even if the national treasure’s true nature may be obvious to you, it is a good idea to strengthen it with other supporting arguments. That way, the credibility of the statement that it is an ancient weapon increases. It wasn’t easy. I had to check to see if there are any inconsistencies in my thoughts. The info was scattered throughout 78 volumes. The Kaido theory was easier compared to this, hahaha

Yeah, sorry if it came off wrong. It's great to see all this info combined to be even more certain. It might not be obvious to a lot of readers sometimes, Blackbeard being the end villain and Jinbe joining SH's come to mind (I would love to see your full analysis on these ).

Monquito

Pluton shouldn't be something you can build more than once but it should be as unique as Poseidon is.

Which is why I still believe the blueprints weren't Pluton but another different weapon(not an ancient one) to counter the power of Pluton.

BingBang

@Kaptayn:

That would definitely be cool but Poseidon is already a person, two weapons being actual humans wouldn't be a bit too much ?

The weapons are:

-A PERSON
-A SHIP
-HAND WEAPON

RobZilla

@Martine:

does it really deserve its own thread…or do you just need attention? FYI, there are threads for theories and ancient weapons.

This is a pretty far ranging and comprehensive theory with evidence cited from a number of arcs.

It legitimately deserves its own thread.

Ned_Gutters

I'm not proofreading this, since I've been grading papers all weekend, but I think it is presentable enough. Please be charitable if I mess up somewhere or if I'm not as precise as I should be (I'm not)

My conclusion will be: You might be right, but some of what you present as evidence can be more plausibly explained by alternative hypotheses/interpretations. I'll discuss the content of your post in the order it was presented.

First: The wave analogy Doflamingo draws, and the claim that only worthy pirates will be allowed to exist (1) doesn’t necessarily imply one large event, like the activation of an ancient weapon and (2) doesn’t need to occur all at once. He could very well referring specifically to the consequences of the war, and claiming that with the death of WB things will change – and they do; we see the WG ramping up their attacks on and arrests of pirates, pirates running rampant and wiping each other out. He could easily just be referring to people like him constituting a “wave” that will wipe out everyone inferior; keep in mind, he does think pretty much everyone else is inferior.

I think you’re right to infer that the new-age stuff refers to Kaido and the war he and Doflamingo plan to start, but so far we cannot thus infer an ancient weapon – it light of the fact that Doflamingo is helping Kaido build an army, we really have no explanatory gap that would be filled by positing an ancient weapon: it is more reasonable to conclude (though only inductively) that the new age will be a result of this army and the war Kaido and Doflamingo will start, independent of any claim about an ancient weapon.

The destruction of the world is definitely an interesting point. It seems, though, that Doflamingo doesn’t literally want to destroy the planet, or just all civilization, etc., based on his claims of there being a new-age – a new world – where only the strongest survive. He says “only worthy pirates will be allowed to exist,” so he clearly doesn’t plan to wipe out everybody. More likely, by destroy the world, he means destroy the world as we currently know it – he means change the world radically, in such a way as to constitute a new age – and this may not require an ancient weapon (while literally destroying the world, with the possible exception of the gura gura no mi, likely would).
Counterpoint: Kaido actually does want to destroy the world
Rejection: Kaido just wants to die. We see this from him being angry at WB when he fail to kill himself again. He thinks a massive war would do the trick, but that is only secondary to his goal of death. Plus, Doflamingo and Kaido’s goals don’t need to line up perfectly.

If we read Doflamingo’s claim about destroying the world as metaphorical (which we should in light of his speech at marineford – he clearly intends some people to survive and dominate in a new-age, and there has to be a world for that to happen – then the abilities of the ancient weapons to literally destroy the world become irrelevant.

Regarding shaking the world: Lots of things shake the world. Gold Roger shook the world by announcing one piece. WB shook the world by simply confirming it. BB taking WB’s fruit shook the world, but in a much more minor way. On a larger scale, the true history of the void century would definitely shake the world. It could be that the Rio Poneglyph (if it is one document rather than a compilations of all the poneglyphs) is in Mariejois. This would also explain why the knowledge itself is dangerous. It is possible that if he senses any move against him from the WG, Doflamingo will just spill certain beans. If it is an ancient weapon, we need an explanation as to why his word alone would be enough for the WG to not mess with him. It’s entirely possible, but I don’t think it’s the best explanation.

The point about controlling the world is a really good one. I’m really not sure what to say about that one. It’s a big point in your favor

All the turning point stuff, as you note, seems to be specifically about the war of the best. So, it doesn’t support an ancient weapon, as the alleged weapon seemingly had nothing to do with the war. He might be trying to do the same thing as the WB war, you’re right, but that it is for the purpose of stealing an ancient weapon is speculative and maybe even question begging.

The claim about destroying the world that the CD control supports my claim about destroying the world being metaphorical – it is superfluous to say “that the CD control” if he just means “I’m going to literally destroy the world.” It sounds more like he wants to strip the CD of their control over the world – he wants to destroy the world insofar as it is a world they can control, and they could just involve the proliferation of information, or a specific act of aggression against specific target, etc. An ancient weapon is not necessary (though it would be sufficient) to rob the CD of a world that they control. Actually, starting a massive war, regardless of the victor, might be enough, depending on who gets involved and why.

I agree that the Ancient Kingdom was most likely destroyed by an ancient weapon; I am actually guessing (not arguing) that the Teach family was an Ancient Kingdom family that betrayed them and turned an ancient weapon over to the soon to be WG. In any case, I agree that an ancient weapon was likely involved in the destruction of the Ancient Kingdom.

I also agree that Dragon wants an ancient weapon (or, if he is an ancient weapon, he needs to realize his own power and has yet to do so).

From a story perspective, Robin will learn the true history. However, this doesn’t mean (1) she can’t then share it with the revolutionaries, nor (2) Dragon doesn’t want her to figure it out for them rather than for herself, even if in fact she would only pursue it herself and with the strawhats. In any case, you’re almost certainly right that Dragon is interested in her, at least in part, due to her potential to awaken an ancient weapon. Like I said, I agree Dragon wants to use an ancient weapon, and I’m sure he thinks Robin can help further that cause.

I agree with everything you say about Pluton and Poseidon. Actually, I think Joy Boy was the leader of the great kingdom, and failed to fulfill his promise due to the kingdom being destroyed. He knew it would happen, like you said, and apologized to FI. I’m guessing Noah was for the purpose of relocating the fishmen to the surface.

Two things on waves: (1) This is a story about pirates; wave analogies are going to be not uncommon, (2) It might be a really good find regarding the emphasis of world with Doflamingo and Otohime. Big point in your theory’s favor!

I also agree that Doflamingo and Crocodile are too similar to not compare. We should be careful though; similar does not mean they’re identical – they’re not – and if they’re not identical, there do need to be some differences. But, I do think this is one of the biggest points you make in favor of the national treasure being an ancient weapon.

So, my point: Maybe the national treasure is an ancient weapon. I don’t think everything you suggest here is actual evidence of this, though, as a lot of it can be more plausibly explained without reference to an ancient weapon. However, you do make some pretty strong points as well, which would be best accounted for in terms of the national treasure being an ancient weapon.

You might be right, and you have some good evidence, but not as much as is seemingly presented here.

I really enjoy your theories, as you know, and I hope you enjoy my response; I think you know it’s not my intent to be hostile, but rather to just think about and discuss all this together

LuffydaPirateKing

@S.C.:

One question, Australopithecus‎. Doflamingo seems to think that someone who has been given the Ope Ope no Mi's Eternal Youth Operation and with the National Treasure can conquer the world. In fact, it seems he thinks it is necessary in order to harness it. Do you have any ideas or opinions about this connection?

my thought on that was that they could then use multiple devil fruits(since it wouldn't kill them)

great thread btw, saw a similar ice on youtube but this thread is crisper. I do believe you are correct too

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

Also I believe that Uranus is too powerful or "world changing" to use on the pirates. There would be too great of consequences, thats why they want pluton

--- Update From New Post Merge ---

@ya-me:

good theory maybe WG cant use Uranus because there is another element needed for them to be able to use it i don't mean Opi Opi.the weapons made by people of void country right maybe only a D could activate them but not any D only The D Who could hear the Voice of all creation like Gol D Roger and on FI we saw luffy has the ability too.

sorry for bad English.

I find most of the time people who apologize for their "bad" english don't have bad english. Your's was fine. Must be difficult knowing 2 languages

KageKageKing

How can we be certain there are only 3 weapons?

Johnny B. Decent

How can we be certain there are only 3 weapons?

With 100% certainty? Well, we don't. But we assume here's only thee due to Neptune's talk with Robin.

Monquito

How can we be certain there are only 3 weapons?

Or that only ancient weapons can destroy the world.
If Doula gets to fully control the WG he doesn't really need an ancient weapon since he could use bad political administration(works all the time), the buster calls or provocations between countries with the help of all the Cipher Pools.

Australopithecus

@ya-me:

good theory maybe WG cant use Uranus because there is another element needed for them to be able to use it i don't mean Opi Opi.the weapons made by people of void country right maybe only a D could activate them but not any D only The D Who could hear the Voice of all creation like Gol D Roger and on FI we saw luffy has the ability too.

sorry for bad English.

Thanks! Your English is fine, buddy. I did not have any problem understanding it:happy:

@kcity:

Yeah, sorry if it came off wrong. It's great to see all this info combined to be even more certain. It might not be obvious to a lot of readers sometimes, Blackbeard being the end villain and Jinbe joining SH's come to mind (I would love to see your full analysis on these ).

Do not worry about it, Kcity. There was nothing wrong in what you said. I will try to do an analysis over that, but don't hold your breath waiting because you will end up holding them for a long time. I have some nice thoughts over that. Somethings that crossed my mind right now:

! Remember how Blackbeard was emphasized to be greatly similar to and greatly different than Luffy? He will play an important part in the storyline. He might even be connected to the void century since he is a 'D'. Also remember when Shanks was warning Whitebeard about him? That shows that Shanks believe he has the potential to do that. In other words, to continues to develop and reach great heights. Also remember his aim is One Piece. He aims big. And his plan to do that has been working well thus far. He was the one who showed the most potential to be the final villain among the four emperors. Regarding Jimbe, well, I have to check the manga to see if there any inconsistencies in my thoughts, but I'll just say what I think for now. Jimbe was very glad to have his island bear the Straw Hat flag even though he is an underling of Big Mom. Remember when he was saving Luffy from Akainu? He had a flashback of Ace, and he said that he aids only the men he respects. In other words, he has deep respect for Luffy as a great man. He definitely will be glad to join Luffy, but there is the Big Mom issue. Jimbe will be very active in the Big Mom arc because Oda-sensei foreshadowed its evolvement around Fishman Island to a fair degree. Remember Big Mom has the bomb in her treasury.
@Monquito:

Pluton shouldn't be something you can build more than once but it should be as unique as Poseidon is.

Which is why I still believe the blueprints weren't Pluton but another different weapon(not an ancient one) to counter the power of Pluton.

Trust me on this: I have confirmed it on the manga. Iceburg says,'I have Pluton's Blueprints'.

@RobZilla:

This is a pretty far ranging and comprehensive theory with evidence cited from a number of arcs.

It legitimately deserves its own thread.

Thank you, Robzilla. You are a dear.

**@Ned_Gutters:

‘The wave analogy Doflamingo draws, and the claim that only worthy pirates will be allowed to exist (1) doesn’t necessarily imply one large event, like the activation of an ancient weapon and (2) doesn’t need to occur all at once. He could very well referring specifically to the consequences of the war, and claiming that with the death of WB things will change – and they do; we see the WG ramping up their attacks on and arrests of pirates, pirates running rampant and wiping each other out. He could easily just be referring to people like him constituting a “wave” that will wipe out everyone inferior; keep in mind, he does think pretty much everyone else is inferior.’**
When Doflamingo first spoke about the ‘new age’ and how its ‘wave’ will allow only the worthy pirates to exist, it was long before Ace and Blackbeard clashed. The trigger of the war between the marines and Whitebeard was ‘Ace’s capture’. In other words, it wasn’t about the sequels of Wb’s war.
**@Ned_Gutters:

‘He could easily just be referring to people like him constituting a “wave” that will wipe out everyone inferior; keep in mind, he does think pretty much everyone else is inferior.’**
I don’t think so. It’s sounds like a much more threatening power to their ‘existence’ insofar as only those who prove their worth in its face will be allowed to exist.
I don't think the word 'allow' is talking about Doflamingo's intention. I think it is talking about the weapon's power on the world.

**@Ned_Gutters:

‘I think you’re right to infer that the new-age stuff refers to Kaido and the war he and Doflamingo plan to start, but so far we cannot thus infer an ancient weapon – it light of the fact that Doflamingo is helping Kaido build an army, we really have no explanatory gap that would be filled by positing an ancient weapon: it is more reasonable to conclude (though only inductively) that the new age will be a result of this army and the war Kaido and Doflamingo will start, independent of any claim about an ancient weapon.’**
When Doflmaingo gave Monet her ‘final order’ to push the ‘switch’ that will make every life form on Punk Hazard disappear along with hers(except Caesar’s), she said that it’s going to be him who’ll become ‘Pirate King’.

This shows that Doflamingo has the intention of ruling the world as its ‘king’.

From Trebol’s flashback, they asked him to show them a dream: Doflamingo becoming the ‘king of the sea’.

Both of these images show that Doflamingo intends to rule the world.

When Doflamingo was talking with Law, he said that if he had had his Ope Ope ‘that day’, he would have used the national treasure and ruled the world on that very day.

This shows that Doflamingo just needs a ‘means’ of reaching it.

Since Doflamingo is pertinacious on becoming the ‘pirate king’, funding Kaido will not work in his favour because it is Kaido that grows stronger instead of him – stronger than Doflamingo. Furthermore, I don’t see how funding an army that is not at his command will help him in his objective of becoming the pirate king. To wage a war against the marines while he has gone through so much trouble of becoming a warlord and taking over Dressrosa so as to leisurely make Smiles for Kaido is counterproductive, unless he has a deeper objective than that. Even if the army manages to emerge victorious in a war against the marines, it will still be Kaido who has won the war. Such victory will not make Doflamingo the ‘pirate king’.
However, if the waging of the war against the marine were to give him an opportunity to get his hands on the national treasure, which is said to make a person able to ‘rule the world, it would reasonably explain how he intends to become the pirate king.

The waging of a war against the marines displaces the government’s army into the battlefield. It creates a weakness in their defense system at Mariejois - a weakness that will work in Doflamingo’s favour of obtaining the national treasure.

This reminds me of what Blackbeard has done to them. While the marine forces were all occupied with Whitebeard’s war, Blackbeard used that opportunity to sneak to Impel Down to fulfill his underhanded motive. Same goes for Doflamingo: while the government’s forces are occupied by a war against Kaido, he will use that opportunity to sneak to Mariejois along with his family and take the national treasure.

Regarding Kaido’s objective of dying from the war, it is contradictory for someone to ‘strengthen’ his army just to go to war and die. If he wants to die in a war, he should NOT strengthen his army. The strengthening of an army increases the chances of victory and lowers the chances of defeat. So Kaido doesn’t really plan to die from that war. His war seems to be somehow tied to the destruction of the world. And chapters ago we see that Doflamingo also desires to destroy the ‘world’. I think Doflamingo tempted him with what is in Mariejois.
**@Ned_Gutters:

If we read Doflamingo’s claim about destroying the world as metaphorical (which we should in light of his speech at marineford – he clearly intends some people to survive and dominate in a new-age, and there has to be a world for that to happen – then the abilities of the ancient weapons to literally destroy the world become irrelevant.**
Even if he used Uranus, there would still be a world because the government has at least 170 nations united with them. It tells how vast the one piece world is. There are countries who are not associated with them, like Wano and Fishman Island. The destruction of these islands won’t pain the Celestial Dragons, so there should be no need to destroy them. It isn’t like the Celestial Dragons rule over the ‘entire world’. Even if he were to destroy the entire islands on existence, there would still be a world made of water only(I suggest watching ‘Waterworld’ for more info about this, if you hadn’t watched it already). In any case, this doesn’t dismiss the possibility that what he is talking about could be literal.

‘Regarding shaking the world: Lots of things shake the world. Gold Roger shook the world by announcing one piece. WB shook the world by simply confirming it. BB taking WB’s fruit shook the world, but in a much more minor way. On a larger scale, the true history of the void century would definitely shake the world. It could be that the Rio Poneglyph (if it is one document rather than a compilations of all the poneglyphs) is in Mariejois. This would also explain why the knowledge itself is dangerous. It is possible that if he senses any move against him from the WG, Doflamingo will just spill certain beans. If it is an ancient weapon, we need an explanation as to why his word alone would be enough for the WG to not mess with him. It’s entirely possible, but I don’t think it’s the best explanation.”

I do agree with you that the true history will shake the world to its core more than the weapon, but that couldn’t be what Doflamingo was talking about because he said that it is able to make a person ‘rule of the world’ at the very instant he makes contact with it. History will not allow him to rule the world. It will certainly remove the Government’s mask of goodness from its face, but it won’t make Doflamingo a ruler of the world.
@Ned_Gutters:

‘I also agree that Doflamingo and Crocodile are too similar to not compare. We should be careful though; similar does not mean they’re identical – they’re not – and if they’re not identical, there do need to be some differences. But, I do think this is one of the biggest points you make in favor of the national treasure being an ancient weapon.’

Hence the difference in the weapon each of them sought. Crocodile sought Pluton, whereas Doflamingo sought Uranus.
@Ned_Gutters:

I really enjoy your theories, as you know, and I hope you enjoy my response; I think you know it’s not my intent to be hostile, but rather to just think about and discuss all this together

Thanks, Professor Ned. I did enjoy your response. There was no hostility in your words. You are only laying bare your doubts regarding some points, and there is no harm in that. It is from discussing things like those with the intention of simply trying to work together on figuring out an answer to an issue that we can truly reach a mutual understanding.:happy:

@LuffydaPirateKing:

great thread btw, saw a similar ice on youtube but this thread is crisper. I do believe you are correct too

Thanks! I am glad you enjoyed it:happy:
@LuffydaPirateKing:

Also I believe that Uranus is too powerful or "world changing" to use on the pirates. There would be too great of consequences, thats why they want pluton

It is possible. After all, the Great Kingdom lost to its power.

@LuffydaPirateKing:

I find most of the time people who apologize for their "bad" english don't have bad english. Your's was fine. Must be difficult knowing 2 languages

I find those people very noble.

maxterdexter

The quake fruit is most likely the key component of Pluto or Uranus, in order for it to realize it's full potential, just like Maxim and Enel.

That's why Oda decided to use "the power to destroy the world" to describe it.

That's why blackbeard having it is gamechanging, as it gives him the power to destroy the world.

What I think the WG has in it's posetion something stronger than the 3 weapons of the ancient kingdom, the thing that they used to defeat them: Cronus, he who ate Poseidon and Pluto and castrated Uranus. It's too suspicious that it isn't Zeus or Jupiter.

KageKageKing

Cronus sounds something that can stop time. Like The World.

maxterdexter

Blackbeard kind of needs to get his hands on an ancient weapon, considering that we know where pluton is, but somehow the goverment didn't find out about it, and Franky most likely put some of it's technology in the sunny, and shirahoshi will be an ally of the strawhats, the world goverment not having a weapon for the final war seems unlikely, and them just losing Uranus to blackbeard is just sad.

Doflamingo has been gathering lots of things, wealth, weapons, zoan soldiers, giant soldiers, toy soldiers, poisons, devil fruit users, he wanted war.

There's the weird piece of the Puzzle, Momonosuke. What does the probable heir to wano brings to the table? Just more Soldiers? Remember that he was important before the dragon fruit.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

Cronus sounds something that can stop time. Like The World.

Read the first line of the article, not to be confused with Chronos. Though, Oda could fuse both myths.

KageKageKing

@maxterdexter:

Read the first line of the article, not to be confused with Chronos. Though, Oda could fuse both myths.

I think I heard somewhere that Cronus/Saturn was the God of Time.

Johnny B. Decent

I think I heard somewhere that Cronus/Saturn was the God of Time.

Chronos was a Protogenoi, the first generation of deities (Like Gaea and Uranus), but like Maxterdexter said, there would be confusion and sometimes they were merged. Cronus was associated with the earth and also harvesting (A symbol of his was the sickle).

King Cannon

@ICEMAN:

I don't think EYO has anything to do with controlling the National treasure. It just makes you live longer.
The "personality transplant" on the other hand, will allow him to switch his subordinates with whoever has access with the national treasure.
http://read.powermanga.org/read/one_piece/en/0/761/1/page/9
Just like Law switching the SH's personality at Punk Hazard. Only this time, it's probably DD's subordinates with the CD's.

The wording seems to imply that neither technique is connected to the treasure.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

When Doflamingo was talking with Law, he said that if he had had his Ope Ope ‘that day’, he would have used the national treasure and ruled the world on that very day.
http://i.imgur.com/IRKxwjL.jpg
This shows that Doflamingo just needs a ‘means’ of reaching it.

It appears that the Ope Ope is required to use the weapon at all.

Doula does not associate the personality transplant and the eternal youth operation to the use of the treasure.

This would mean that if the treasure ever gets to be used, Law would be needed.

BingBang

The weapons:

PLUTON a SHIP (Oro Jackson?)–-> SHIP CAPABLE OF DESTROYING COUNTRIES

POSEIDON a PERSON (Princess Mermaid)---> Control de Sea KINGS

URANUS a STAFF/HAND WEAPON--->WAND CAPABLE OF CONTROLING PEOPLE?

KageKageKing

Oro Jackson isn't Pluton. No way in hell.

maxterdexter

Oro Jackson isn't pluton, but a warship of the described capabilities isn't just a particle cannon strapped to a raft. It has to have other characteristics. Be sturdy enough to survive the blast, be modular enough to be easily reparable, be manuverable enough to aim acurately.

There's a lot of posibilities surrounding a legendary battleship.

Porinero

@Australopithecus I log in 1 time each month to share my sexyness to this community and to see if any thread can take time from the sexy stuffs I do. The first post you made was the best one I've seen since I created my account here. Really interesting theories and the fact you took your time to make that post makes it even better. You are officially my sexyness underling. On a serius note, keep doing what you do mate, this was sick!! :blink:
// Mad goat aka sexy sexy no mi

maxpower69

Anyone think that Bonny might be essential to what the government is planning with the ancient weapons? She seems pretty important based on how Sakazuki was talking to her. She escaped the World Government twice already it seems like. So it's not like they are putting her in Impel Down. Just a thought.

Australopithecus

@King:

It appears that the Ope Ope is required to use the weapon at all.

Doula does not associate the personality transplant and the eternal youth operation to the use of the treasure.

This would mean that if the treasure ever gets to be used, Law would be needed.

No, it is not a requirement. It would surely facilitate the task of using the national treasure, but it was never suggested to be a necessity for it. Moreover, when Doflamingo was talking with Law, he said: 'that’s how ‘useful’ your ability can be!'

!
If it were a requirement, he would say that’s how ‘necessary’ your ability is.

When Kaido was angrily saying to Joker to 'hurry up and finish the preparations' for war, he displayed 'impatience'.

!

When Law entered the room of 'SAD', Doflamingo told Vergo to kill him. Killing Law will be an inconvenience to using the national treasure, assuming the Ope Ope is a necessity. Doflamingo himself tried killing Law with his pistol.Even if the fruit reincarnates again, it will take time for it to be found, assuming the fruit reincarnates quickly, and assuming Doflamingo is the one who ends up finding it first(because for all we know it could be either someone else who mistakes for a normal fruit and eats it or another person with the desire of becoming a 'fruit user'). Seeing how Kaido is impatient on lunching the war against the Gov's forces, adding another jeopardizing factor to their plan is a foolish idea, _unless it was not part of Doflamingo's plan._That's another reason why the Ope Ope is not necessary to his operation.

@Porinero:

@Australopithecus I log in 1 time each month to share my sexyness to this community and to see if any thread can take time from the sexy stuffs I do. The first post you made was the best one I've seen since I created my account here. Really interesting theories and the fact you took your time to make that post makes it even better. You are officially my sexyness underling. On a serius note, keep doing what you do mate, this was sick!! :blink:
// Mad goat aka sexy sexy no mi

Thanks! I really appreciate that.
@Porinero:

'You are officially my sexyness underling.'

What! Can't I be le capitaine? Hahaha

Yobiyopi

The WG could have uranus if we go by "what" and "where" the other 2 weapons are. Poseidon was the god of the sea, and Shirahoshi does in fact live at the bottom of the ocean. Pluton (or Hades), was the god of the underworld, and the weapon is in fact a warship that would roam in the sea, above Shirahoshi, but under the sky. Uranus was the god of the sky, and Mariejois is located on the red line, well above the sea level, so the weapon itself could be located there or in the sky for all we know.

King Cannon